Was it a big deal to you?
What did you think of it?
It seemed like a HUGE deal to me and my comic book chums at the time, but it seemed to quickly fizzle?
Or is my mind playing tricks?
Crisis had a really strong design aesthetic, at launch.
The info. panels at the beginning seemed well researched - although I now have to "pinch of salt" them because Mills has at least partly exposed himself as a lizard-worrying Tin Foil Hatter. He's not averse to just making shit up to fit his world view, is what I'm saying - even though he combines it with actual research. These days, though - research can just mean writing down what some dim-bulb or agitator is pushing online.
New Statesmen was clearly inspired by Watchmen, but is worth a modern re-read. I think it was ahead of its time.
The quick fizzle was a strange thing - I managed to split the four year run into five phases in my data-review pages (https://2kstages.github.io/stages/spinOffs/crisis1.html).
Had no idea your write-up existed, Funt. Looks great and I'll be checking it out!
It was a stunning looking comic, you're right. Fantastic aesthetic - perfectly of it's time.
I remember the day it came out and selling many copies in my LCS. It was huge for the first few issues.
New Statesmen was definitely overlooked. I need to read it again.
Looking back, were a lot of people expecting something else? Something more 2000ad-y?
I was just starting 6th Form when this launched and it felt like it was such a big deal and seemed designed for me and my few comic reading friends.
I kept with it until pretty much the bitter end but it did flag a little as it went on. New Statemen was a fav then and remains so now. Well worth a re-read if you haven't for a while. While it may be a little diveriative, it used those influences really well and took things in great new directions. Holds up really well and boy oh boy that Jim Baike art is sublime.
3rd World War I liked at the time, but for me really doesn't hold up anymore.
There were a few gems that came after the launch series. Troubled Souls, Brenden McCarthy's Artoons, True Faith, New Adventures of Hitler all well worth reading.
The real highlight for me though was forgotten gem (so much so I've forgotten it for something!) Myra Hancock and David Hine's fantastic Sticky Fingers. Which was quite superb.
Was trying to remember Sticky Fingers a few days ago. Yeah, it was fantastic.
In fact, I agree with pretty much everything there, Colin!
Still quite fancy getting a "Govt Hooligan" tee, though!
I read the first few but quickly lost interest maybe because I wanted another 2000AD but got something different. If I reflect back it was strange that this was not banned in my country since most political motivated anti-government related things was always heavily censored.
I'm terrible with dates, but I reckon I'd have been about to start college. Although I never got or read Crisis, or even heard about it til much later. I wasn't reading comics any more by then. I'd put my Eagles in boxes, and decided I'd grown out of it all.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 22 January, 2024, 04:13:26 PMThere were a few gems that came after the launch series. Troubled Souls, Brenden McCarthy's Artoons, True Faith, New Adventures of Hitler all well worth reading.
Generally in agreement. I had to reevaluate True Faith with a modern lens. It's perhaps inspired by the dark comedy of something like Heathers, and at the time I liked it. But a recent re-scan put my hackles up, because it seems to be promoting deadly violence against, well, just people one doesn't get on with. It's more dangerous, in that regard, than the cartoon chaos of Big Dave.
I was aware of it but too young - my pocket money didn't extend past one comic anyway. I remember reading through it in the newsagent's and being surprised that there were actual curse words in a comic of all things.
I remember my brother picking up one issue in its dying days; they were reprinting Manara soft porn by then.
It was only in later life when I managed to find a lot of the back issues. World War 3 was a bit heavy-handed and preachy but i suddenly got why Garth Ennis had been given a top job at 2000ad when I read his Belfast strip (shame about his Dredd and Stronts).
I love John Smith's work with a passion but I just couldn't get into New Statesmen. I'd read Watchmen many times over by then so I was probably making a bit of an unfair comparison.
I had just turned 14! For me it was just a comic I think, but the initial line up was really strong, and it left an impression. I carried on reading it... don't think to the end though.
New Statesman - I was a bit too young to get all the references. The religious connotations near the end lost me. Otherwise loved the story and art. I was really put out when Sean Phillips drew an episode some way through as IIRC Jim Baikie was running behind. I heard later Sean was told to draw it to look as much like Baikie's style as possible - so of course it was a bit of a disaster. He got a bit of criticism in the letters pages. Looking at his collaborations with Ed Brubaker his style is now kinda similar to JB's. He painted the final episode or epilogue as well I think, in his own style, and it was fantastic. Duncan Fegredo did a couple of episodes, I think they were pretty good.
Third World War was just so readable. Yes I was being lectured a bit but the cast was interesting, stories exciting and being 14 it was a bit of an eye opener. Mostly Ezquerra, art a bit rough and ready, but vivid and energetic. I think Angie Mills also did an episode? Which was pretty good. I was certainly invested in Eve's story. Didn't enjoy it as much when she returned to the UK though. Did Ezquerra stop at that point?
Troubled Souls also good, True Faith was pretty nasty. Sticky Fingers I didn't get on with the art at the time but would probably enjoy it more now. The Hitler one I really didn't get. Wouldn't mind revisiting it now.
https://youtu.be/dSQXumqHdbg?feature=shared
Just remembered there's a little bit in here about CRISIS (14 mins in)
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 22 January, 2024, 07:19:27 PMit seems to be promoting deadly violence against, well, just people one doesn't get on with. It's more dangerous, in that regard, than the cartoon chaos of Big Dave.
Am a bit surprised by this assertion - surely the story is not meant to be taken at all seriously? Does it really promote vuiolence more than any given 2000AD strip? I've a particular fondness for it, mostly on the grounds that it builds you up from a mildly unlikable protagonist (pretending to be interested in Christianity to get into a girl's pants) to a prpoerly unhinged one (the plumber) to an even more unhinged, and actively nasty, one (the doctor).
And there's a read of the whole thing that's it's just the idle fantasy of a bored/frustrated schoolkid wondering what it might be like to murder people and burn down the Church, which is I reckon something many a 2000AD reader has toyed with in their imagination (where there are no limits, not even to good taste).
As for Crisis the comic, I remember it being heaviuly advertised in 2000AD at the time, don't remember ever seeing it in the newsagent or my LCS, but at 10 was far too little and indeed scared of the content to actually read it anyway.
I've been impressed by the recent TWW trade collections. VERY dense, and quite a bit of conspiracy-theorizing, but still compelling comics.
My apoliges Funt, if it's bad form to copy/paste excerpts from your hard-built site, but this run-down of one-offs (https://2kstages.github.io/stages/spinOffs/crisis4.html) from late-era Crisis was too delightful not to share...
[The one-off slot(s)]
Although these often feature strong messages of social justice, in this phase we start to see a move into more art house fare, which can have the drawback of leaving the reader nonplussed.
Brighton Gas - a homeless young man in Brighton, whose name is Gas, hangs around the town filled with ennui. It's possible that at the end he's insane and thinks he's an astronaut.
Passion and Fire - perhaps about heroin addiction.
Faceless - a woman starts getting wrong number calls for a sex line, and eventually confronts the owner (an anthropomorphic razorback).
Try a Little Tenderness - A man hunts down and kills Hammond organs. True.
The Soldier and the Farmer - Khmer Rouge guerillas massacre a farmer and his family when they discover that he used to be a teacher.
Felicity - a young man signs on for his dole, and later he witnesses an older man having a heart attack in the pub. It's possible they're the same person.
Chicken Run - a young man is depressed and feeling melodramatic because his girlfriend left him.
It just perfectly sums up my memories of burning through a bunch of Crisis back issues I managed to buy in the early 2000ADs. (Trying to read bits of Third World War books 2/3 with epsiodes missing and not having read the originals was wildly difficult to make any sense of.)
I like to imagine all the above stories were written by Si Spencer.
I couldn't really get into Crisis at the time.
Third World War was way too political and preachy for me.
I gave up after about 6 issues.
Now I have, not sure if it is 2 or 3 volumes, of the Third World War collected edition sitting on my bookshelf, unread since I bought them. Which was as soon as they came out.
I'd probably buy a collected edition of the New Statesman too.
And probably leave that unread for ages as well.
Overall, nah it wasn't for me. I guess I was hoping it would be like 2000AD, but it wasn't.
Timing-wise, this one was just out of sync for me. In 1988, I'd not even started getting 2000 AD weekly, but I'd seen Crisis ads elsewhere. It looked and sounded quite exciting, but I never picked up a copy. Honestly, I'm pretty sure I never saw a copy, mind.
Years later, probably in the early 2000s, when I was in my late 20s or early 30s, I secured a complete run. I've no idea where from. I enjoyed the initial run, with TWW and New Statesman, but the entire publication felt like diminishing returns with the odd gem thereafter. I wasn't keen on where TWW ended up heading.
Later, I had a re-read and didn't care for it to the point I sold the collection off. I do still have some New Statesman Quality editions though. (Five little ones.) It just all felt quite dated and not that interesting. I imagine part of that stems from my tendency towards more fantastical and escapist comics, vs the more straightforward storytelling in the European fare that Crisis ended up using quite often.
Regardless, it felt by the mid point, let alone the end, that Crisis could have done with the word 'identity' being placed above it on the masthead. It didn't seem to know what it wanted to be.
I vaguely remember picking it up in my local newsagent. It was with the kids' comics, and ISTR the shop owner ticking off a subordinate, saying that it should be on a higher shelf, "because there's language in it".
I preferred Revolver, personally, but not many people agreed with me, or at least not enough to pay money for it.
I recall a customer tearing up a copy of Revolver for dissing Dan Dare.
Quote from: Le Fink on 22 January, 2024, 09:08:44 PMI think Angie Mills also did an episode?
She drew at least 2 episodes. John Hicklenton also drew some episodes of Third World War. His depiction of the corrupt police chief was disturbing.
Quote from: AlexF on 25 January, 2024, 01:11:24 PMQuote from: Funt Solo [R] on 22 January, 2024, 07:19:27 PMit seems to be promoting deadly violence against, well, just people one doesn't get on with. It's more dangerous, in that regard, than the cartoon chaos of Big Dave.
Am a bit surprised by this assertion - surely the story is not meant to be taken at all seriously? Does it really promote vuiolence more than any given 2000AD strip? I've a particular fondness for it, mostly on the grounds that it builds you up from a mildly unlikable protagonist (pretending to be interested in Christianity to get into a girl's pants) to a prpoerly unhinged one (the plumber) to an even more unhinged, and actively nasty, one (the doctor).
And there's a read of the whole thing that's it's just the idle fantasy of a bored/frustrated schoolkid wondering what it might be like to murder people and burn down the Church, which is I reckon something many a 2000AD reader has toyed with in their imagination (where there are no limits, not even to good taste).
I do understand your point - and it's why my original post had the opening caveat of "I had to reevaluate True Faith with a modern lens". When it was first published, there wasn't an organized, violent incel movement.
When the lead character's plan to get closer to the object* of his desires results in a rebuff, because she's misunderstood him, he reacts with highly aggressive vitriol and, later, deadly violence. It doesn't seem to be presented as a tragedy, either. It seems more like it's supposed to be a dark comedy.
Whereas the violence in something like Feral & Foe is at such a far remove from our day to day reality as to render it harmless, True Faith is presented mostly in a contemporary, believable setting (if you especially ignore the hyper-villain and his goons in the third act) - and so is positioned to do more harm.
I'm in no danger of seeing Feral & Foe on the news. Oh, and I live in the US, and I teach at a public school - so the danger of gun violence from ennui-fueled young people is very, very real. When mini-Solo posted a pic of our dog as part of a class activity, another student threatened to shoot it - in writing, and in energetic detail. Hyperbole, you might scoff - but he listed the type of gun and caliber of bullet he would use, and they are both easily available at the local family superstore and may indeed be within reach of the child at his home.
The times, they are a-changing.
*Yes, she's not an object.
Weirdly (as I still have every issue of Crisis here somewhere) I barely remember anything about buying or reading Crisis in the first few years. I don't think much of anything in those issues really grabbed my attention* - I must have become a Garth Ennis fan at some stage but neither Troubled Souls nor True Faith won me over.
Knowing me, it was probably A Few Troubles More that won me over. I definitely remember being much more excited about Toxic! when that was announced.
*the first time I was really excited about a story in Crisis was The New Adventures of Hitler, though I was looking forward to Skin as well and we all know how that turned out
Your context of a US High School definitely paints the likes of True Faith in a much scarier light, I can sure see how you wouldn't want to read/promote it!
I cling to the belief that art can never be truly responsible for encouraging real-life violence, but I can see how it makes it easier for people to think digital violence is OK, or at the very least funny/harmless, which is totally isn't.
The flip side if this is that while I am OK saying that True Life never made someone kill another person, Third World War didn't make people protest/overturn the actions of Mega Corporations or racist police, either...
Interesting, as it segues into a debate around whether actions (whether violent or otherwise) depicted in an artistic medium can cause real-world actions.
This debate is usually around censorship, whether it's of video game violence, or video nasties etc. You'll normally find me on the non-censorship side of that debate. It's interesting - if we were to move the debate onto diet - everyone can be in agreement that certain foodstuffs (for example) aren't good for the long term health of children. It's much more difficult to agree what to do about that - because folk aren't keen on draconian laws around what you are allowed to eat.
The ultimate solution to gun violence in the US is to stop selling guns to people - and that's clear from the data. So, perhaps there's no value in trying to stop artists from depicting realistic, contemporary gun violence - even if we could prove a causal link. If they didn't have a gun - they couldn't use it.
I'm not sure all of this is central to my complaint, though. I don't want to read a story where the protagonist is a murderous misogynist and he's presented as the hero of the piece. I am similarly turned off by Finn because of the sexual politics (fuck 'em and leave 'em, and they all drop their pants willingly despite their prior or latter character depiction) and the environmental politics (oil barons and manual workers at battery farms deserve to be brutally murdered). Or by Greysuit - a sick, serial killer that we're supposed to be rooting for. (Like, in the same way I don't want to drink in a racist pub.)
Moving back to the causal-art debate, for a moment. My wife is an elementary school counselor and has read research that demonstrates that the format of US sitcoms results in conflict between children. It goes like this: there's about 20 minutes of people fighting and being mean to each other, then 5 minutes of morality at the end. The viewer experiences 80% nastiness, and then goes out into the world and reflects that behavior back onto the playground. The 20% morality loses.
Conclusion: I like my fantasy violence firmly rooted in fantasy. I don't mind dark characters, but context is king. If the story is lauding shitheads, it's a turn off.
Quote from: karlos on 25 January, 2024, 03:10:17 PMI recall a customer tearing up a copy of Revolver for dissing Dan Dare.
Kind of understandable, given THAT scene by Grant 'I've never written a rapes scene' Morrison. I have to say I liked Dare though - it's one of the darkest and bleakest strips from an era of dark and bleak comics, and I read it much later on in life, but I found it genuinely gripping and hauntingly poignant.
If the main underlying principle of all storytelling is 'conflict' (which is maybe debatable but not by the people who make money from writing stories), does this mean that all humans, as inveterate consumers of stories, are driven in life to seek out/expect conflict?
I'm basically wondering if that sitcom-based research, fascinating though it sounds, has fallen into a classic 'correlation is not causation' trap...
Getting wildly off-topic here but one of my favourite depictions of the use/vlaue/power of stories is, of all things, the first Croods movie.
I remember when Crisis came out & like most people went to get it as it was from 2000AD only to find out that some of the characters in 3WW were loosely based on people I knew from the pub who were friends with Pat Mills' daughter
In the intro to the Trade, Mills specifically says he talked to his daughter's mates to a) get dialogue tips on how young people talk and b) to ask them what they would do in certain theoretical situations.
This presumably, is his justification for ensuring that all female characters are inclined to sleep with Paul/Finn /Mills's favourite character...
Quote from: AlexF on 29 January, 2024, 09:54:24 AMIn the intro to the Trade, Mills specifically says he talked to his daughter's mates to a) get dialogue tips on how young people talk and b) to ask them what they would do in certain theoretical situations.
This presumably, is his justification for ensuring that all female characters are inclined to sleep with Paul/Finn /Mills's favourite character...
Ugh, yes, the "all Trisha needed was a good seeing-to from Finn" plotline still makes me squirm.
I still have a folder with a sticker from Crisis stuck on it - 'Smile while you die'.
The only Crisis I remember buying, or more specifically my brother buying, had a David Hine story about a kid with worms, a Milo Manara porn reprint, and iirc a Garth Ennis retelling of an urban legend about some teenager trying to replace the neighbour's rabbit he accidentally killed. I quite enjoyed it at the time but in hindsight it was fairly lacking in substance.
I always loved Dare, and I say this as a life-long Dan fan!
That said, I understand why the customer got upset with it.
Anyone remember the True Faith trade paperback coming out? Didn't it get "banned"?
Dare I never liked it felt that it veered off too much from the Dare in either the original Eagle or the new Eagle. That is how the young me saw it at the time. I have a few years ago read Dare again but I still do not like it.
Think I bought the first issue, but it never really appealed to me. From my point of view it simply needed more strips - Third World War and New Statesmen were okay but with two (large) eggs in one basket it didn't have the diverse, anthology appeal of 2000 AD. Also, it came out at almost precisely the wrong time - just before I left home for University Polytechnic, and things like remembering to buy comics regularly (and having the spare money to do so) became things of the past for a few years.
Issue #1 was so popular the day it came out (a Saturday, IIRC?) at the comic shop where I worked that I was quickly dispatched that very morning to empty all the surrounding newsagents' stock of it, just to keep the regular customers happy.
The subsequent sales after that were massively lower.
I guess that's one of my main memories - the initial excitement and the speed at which is dissipated.