I was made redundant a couple of months ago, with a notice period lasting up to Christmas.
Another department from within the same company offered me a new job. I accepted.
They've been dicking me about getting the offer letter over, but I have emails over a 9-day period assuring me that they'll send it "within 24 hours", "within 48 hours", etc, and confirming that the job is mine.
Now they've called me up to meet them in a couple of hours: looks like they are not going to employ anyone in the position.
With 2 hours till the meeting, and eight working days till I get made redundant without a job to go to, I turn to you guys for legal advice: do I have grounds to threaten to sue the arse off them?
I have a law degree, and this is the best advice I can give you:
Get a solicitor, quickly.
I don't know, otherwise. Things are different in England, and the laws on employment can be pretty specific.
James, we're the wrong people to ask.
Good luck, and my sympathies.
- Trout
Hell, our in-house HR people (who are mates) don't know. I can't find a solicitor in 2 hours while sitting at work. I know that this is the wrong place to ask, but was hoping that someone had had a similar experience or something.
Ah well, cheers anyway.
James (off to try boredsolicitor.com)
James - I do a bit of HR at work - and all I can tell you is what has happenned in my own experiences.
Without a written confirmation of a job offer, you dont really have a case. If they had given you a written confirmation of employment - that would count as a contract - and not keeping to that a breach of that contract. however - unless you have firm proof that they offered you this other position, there's not a lot you can do.
That's what has happenned here before - Dont know how 'legal' that is. sorry.
Sorry about your news Dud. Have a look at www.dti.gov.uk and www.ets.gov.uk Both have heaps of advice and links on employment law.
I understood that, legally, an e-mail has the same status as a hard-copy letter. Could be wrong, though.
It seems that the companies actions have been financially damaging, the assurances and promises preventing you from searching for another job in good faith, and the responsibility for this damage is unambiguously in the lap of the company.
Get a lawyer. Ring the Citizens'Advice. Talk to the union, even if you're not a member.
Don't panic. Go to the meeting. Listen to what they say. You do not know what they will tell you.
If they are saying there is no job, explain that until this morning you believed the job was yours. Explain that you may wish to take legal advice regarding the situation. Say nothing else. Sign nothing - even if they are offering cash that you are willing to take, explain that it is all a shock and you need time to think about what you will do.
Then contact a solicitor, if needs be.
Remember that, on a practical level, these people will:-
(a) be required to give you a reference at some point in the future;
(b) may be aware they have a moral obligation to assist you
While hard to accept just now, there is no point being aggressive or confrontational.
One idea worth considering is to ask for an extension to your notice period or an ex gratia payment, to take into account the fact that you have not been lookng for another job because you expected this one. In fact, they may even offer this to you.
I suspect, though, that the reality is that if there is no job then they will not make one for you.
Hi
I, along with 10 others, was made redundant about 6 years ago again at this time of year. We had NO notice whatsoever! As some of us had been there for more than 2 years, we were entitled to redundancy money (which took 5 months to come through!!), and those who had been there less that 2 years got nothing. Are you being offered redundancy?
As for them offering you a different position, I am unsure of the legal implications. I guess they can fob you off saying that there was a position but now we do not have need for such a position and thus, we are unable to employ you.
I think they could be in trouble if they offer that position to someone else instead of you, but again, not 100% sure.
Go with the advice of others. Go to the meeting. If its not what you had been promised go to CAB. They are the best people to talk to. My experience with solicitors has been dire. They (generalization) are useless and generally unsympathetic.
I wish you the best of luck. Chin up and I hope it all works out for you.
Regards
John
This might be a help.
Link: UK Human Resources Guide
Funt, Keep us informed dude!
Dave
yeah CG is right, e-mail is as binding in law as a letter. cits rights, certainly the threat of legal wotsit.
ive heard lots of cases of people being made redundant, then after the hols taken on again , often under shittyer conditions, its an employers scam to avoid various full time long term employee contractual obligations.
don't panic, there will be a billion choices, but stay calm & ruthless & out manoever them. phone cits advice NOW, or some union thingy ?
Well, I'm shafted. The job I was being offered no longer exists. My job will no longer exist at the end of December. They have scrabbled around and I am being given every opportunity to remain within the company (MORE frigging interviews!), but no additional sum of money if I fail to take advantage of any of them within the next, ooh, five working days.
Merry funking Christmas, eh?*
*This is self-pity. In truth, I'm getting redundancy, and I'm very good at my job, so getting a new one won't be a massive problem. This all comes under the heading of "pain in the arse" rather than "existential life-crisis".
Sorry to hear this, Duds. Not what you need at this time of year, eh? Hope you get something good sorted out soon.
Shit, man! You know if there's anything you need anyone to do, you only have to ask any of us on the board.
But looking at it objectively, you know that your both a highly talented and motivated individual who is damn good at his job, so I'm sure that they'll keep you on within the company, and that you'll have a position of appropriate status sorted soon.
Anyway, don't let it spoil your Christmas hol. Chin up, take the opportunity to relax and enjoy the few days of freedom available to you.
"This all comes under the heading of "pain in the arse" rather than "existential life-crisis"."
I'm glad that you'll be able to get sorted out, even if things aren't exactly hunky dory.
Shit man, bad news...
As with Bou and GC, e-mail is as good as written, so nip down to Cits Advice or your local ambulance chaser and send them a rocket.
In the meantime take the redundancy and spend some time on your scripts. After all, after shating you like that, they don't expect you to be in between now and Xmas do they?
Dan
Also, remember to steal things from the office.
I'm sure you've thought of that.
Hang in there, mate.
- Trout
In this case, the Trout is not being Evil at all.
Take it all and say Fuck-you very much as you leave!
Dave
Nah - done better than that already. Am leaving behind a client who they'll owe ?9K to if a problem isn't sorted out. Once the dept closes there'll be no way of sorting the problem.
Ooops.
Heh, Give 'em hell Dude!
That's the spirit: if they've fucked you over, make sure you shaft 'em good and proper.
Like the King and the witch say, steal everyfuckingthing off the bastards you can.
Sorry to hear that Dud!
But remember: fuck'em.
"Am leaving behind a client who they'll owe ?9K to if a problem isn't sorted out. Once the dept closes there'll be no way of sorting the problem."
Ah there's nothing like a timebomb left by an embittered ex-employee - 'tis a thing of beauty.
May your next job come swiftly and nothing dampen your xmas and new year.
Nevermind, Duds- at least you still have your dignity.
Hmmm... actually, you're pretty fucked every which way, aren't you? Merry Christmas*!
;)
*I know I don't really have to explain that I'm just trying to cheer you up- it's for the benefit of the other idiots**.
**As opposed to you, another idiot.
;)
Who, me?
This site may have some useful info:
Link: ACAS
Hell, mate - that sucks.
No idea on the legal status, sorry.
But I'll buy you a beer or two if you want to complain about them sometime.
Ha, that means i'm not an idiot because I've just joinned the thread.*
*opening myself up for abuse here
seriously though you could sue them for lost earnings because you were not actively seeking new employment due to the fact that you thought you had a new job within the company. If someone has told you in writing that you have a job, then they should hold you to that offer. By saying that the contract will be with you in some many days is in fact a confirmation that a job has been offered. Citizens Advice should be able to clarify, call them to book an appointment. The time that it takes you to find new employment; say for example it takes you a month to find a new job and you worked a months notice, but did not seek new employment due to the fact that you had been offered a job in your exisitng co. you could bill them for the time it takes you to find a new job against the time you spent working for them on the presumption you had future employment.
Just seen this. Good luck.
Go duds , Go duds.
fuck em, leave your parting shot.
have a chilled Christmas
And calmly look for something much much better, like the boys say, youre shit hot clever & together, so the worlds yer oyster. I'm impressed with your "pain in the arse" philosophy perspective, feebler people would be gnashing & moaning about their life being ruined, yeah, shit like this no-one needs & its scary, but deep breathe, stay cool, stay dignified & sing after me " always look on the bright side of life de de dee deee deddeddde "
you want problems ? lemme tell you about problems.... joke.
my grump of the day is people who don't have perspective, a soon to be ex friend of mine has spent 8 months moaning & being depressed about the same terrible thing that happened.. all around grenades go off, houses fall down, earthquakes, nuclear bombs, & he's still going on & on & on about his emotions, hes' been offered work in bahamas & india, but nooooo phoneing everyone up 17 times a day to moan is a better plan... ARGHhhhhhhG , "like , walk overr the bridge!" (juve speak)
er, rant over, i feel better now.
sorry to hear about that dudley. i still don't know if i'll have a job after xmas either. Mind you, if there's a silver lining to be had, at least you'll get some decent time off over xmas. Also, when i got made redundant i used my pay off to go travelling and not end up as a special pie...
--:)
Jesus, Duds, that's shitty, all right. You've got my sympathies - especially since you seemed happy enough with your job, unlike some of the moaners on here (self included).
I'd take the advice of the other boarders who suggested a bit of scripting to take your mind off it.
aw crap Dudley.
that's a really poopy thing to happen right before Christmas. I went through it all in the summer. Claiming redundancy is like a scene from Brazil. Still, you are certain to be better at that sort of thing than i am. anyway, I was trying to say that I got made redundant and it forced me to play my hand. I am now thoroughly loving my job and think its the best move I ever made.
chin up Trooper
and do enjoy Christmas
and do enjoy stealing things from work- the really small essential things like hole punches, staplers and marker pens are best.
or a photocopier.
bye
gem
Got my evidence together and it's rather more cast-iron than I'd originally thought. Need to be calm and careful, but as far as I can see I'm owed at least a month's pay.
Fantasy line to open discussions with:
"Well, as you know, you've shafted me like a cheap whore..."
I have seen this sort of thing before and i wish i could offer some advice but this goes way past my understanding.
employers just seem able to worm their way out of most things.
"Well, as you know, you've shafted me like a cheap whore..."
Or, you could try:
"If I was a whore, I'd be charging you double for f***ing me in the a**e like you have just done."
I officially left at 12 today, this is probably the last post from this work PC.
At 12:05 a company director rang to offer me a new job within the same company.
Intriguing condundrum: if I can spin them along between now and the New Year, or if they can't get an official offer letter out to me before jan 1st, I qualify for redundancy payment AND new salary.
I really do work with a bunch of stone-cold idiots, don't I?
MERRY CHRISTMAS
Wa-hey!
That's a nice little move to pull on the bastards.
Dudley! Sticking it to the MAN!
Happy Xmas dude!
Dave
Go for it!
Also, as your board name is based on their company name, I strongly suggest you come up with a new one.
There's no need to recognise them, is there?
- Trout
Bwa ha ha!
Get as much as you can from them James!
milk them for all you can get Mr Mackay