You know I think it's funny that Milo and others criticise my dialogue. Just finished reading this weeks prog.
Here is some of Dan Abnett's classy dialogue from this week's Sin Dex:
Ricardo:
"The funt is this? The funt is this? Eh? Eh? You funt! You funtwipe. You rocksucker smugfunt, eh?"
Or Mike Carey's 13:
"I wanted a shit."
Shakespeare it ain't.
scojo sad
DREDD -- AND ONE WORD OF ADVICE CITIZEN. NEXT TIME, I'D STICK TO JUSTICE APPROVED, SUGAR FREE HERBAL TEA.
Clunk.
DREDD -- HE'S GONE FUTSIE. A VICTIM OF FUTURE SHOCK SYNDROM. THE PRESSURE OF MEGA CITY LIFE BECOMES TOO MUCH TO BEAR. INVARIABLY THE SUFFERER TURNS HOMICIDAL, GOING ON A KILLING SPREE. THEIR ONLY MEANS OF EXPRESSION.
Clunk.
DREDD -- I WOULDN'T PUT ANYTHING PAST HIM. A LEECH BY NAME AND EQUALLY BY NATURE. (BEAT) I THINK IT'S TIME WE WERE REACQUAINTED.
Clunk.
DREDD -- APPEARANCES CAN BE DECEPTIVE RAINER. BEYOND THAT CLEAN EXTERIOR OF HIS, LIES A CORRUPT UNDERBELLY. I DON'T NEED A LIE MACHINE TO KNOW HE'S NO SAINT. A TRACER WILL DO JUST FINE.
Clunk.
DREDD -- UNLESS THEY PLANE TO SELL THEM TO ORGAN LEGGERS. CRIMINALS WHO PROFIT FROM THE ILLEGAL MARKET IN HUMAN BODY PARTS. WHATEVER THE REASON, THE PRICE IN HUMAN SUFFERING IS IMMEASURABLE.
Clunk.
DREDD (V.O.) (CONT'D) -- LET ONLY THE GUILTY FEAR ME. JUSTICE HAS A FACE. AND I AM IT. FOR I AM THE LAW. I AM JUDGE DREDD.
You can spot Dan Abnett's clunky dialogue, so why can't you see how these lines could be changed for the better?
Well, removing the spelling mistakes would be a good start...
I DON'T THINK ANY OF THOSE LINES YOU QUOTE ARE CLUNKERS.
Four of the six you quote advance the plot. I mean if Dredd didn't explain what a futsie was, the non Dredd audience wouldn't understand, would they?
So your criticism is ridiculous.
Same with the organ leggers line. Unless you want organ leggers to be left unexplained?
Basic storytelling. Sorry but go read a book on it.:)
Again, the Leach line is telling the audience Dredd has planted a tracer. Or don't you wanna know that?
So can't agree with you at all. Unless the non Dredd audience are psychic like you of course....
I suggest you consider that any screenplay is WRITTEN PRIMARILY FOR A NON DREDD FANS.
Basic storytelling.
As for the bad spelling, please enlighten me Rambo.
scojo
Sorry, but I agree with Blackblood. I can see what you are saying about passing on informaion but there are other ways than dialogue.
OK, Scojo:
DREDD -- HE'S GONE FUTSIE. A VICTIM OF FUTURE SHOCK SYNDROM. THE PRESSURE OF MEGA CITY LIFE BECOMES TOO MUCH TO BEAR. INVARIABLY THE SUFFERER TURNS HOMICIDAL, GOING ON A KILLING SPREE. THEIR ONLY MEANS OF EXPRESSION.
Fair enough, you've got to explain what "future shock" is, but does it have to be done by ramming all of this into Dredd's mouth? Why not use your neighbour characters to explain future shock? What about explaining it through the futsie's actions?
To be honest, anything would be better than this clunky lump of dialogue you've lumbered Dredd with. It doesn't read like speech, let alone something Dredd would say.
Same goes for the organ-leggers. Why not use the Med-Judge character to give the audience an idea of what an organ-legger does? Dredd just *doesn't* speak like that - nor do most people. You're ramming an explanation in without thinking about whether it's appropriate, or whether the character would speak in these terms. You should also consider whether characters like Dredd & the Med-Judge - both familiar with organ-leggers - would have to "explain" to each other what they're talking about.
DREDD -- I WOULDN'T PUT ANYTHING PAST HIM. A LEECH BY NAME AND EQUALLY BY NATURE. (BEAT) I THINK IT'S TIME WE WERE REACQUAINTED.
Who do you know who says "A leech by name and equally by nature"? It's not even accurate - it should be "a leech by name, a leech by nature."
Even then, it's still just not how Dredd speaks - chop it in half & you might have something more like Dredd:
DREDD -- LEECH BY NAME, LEECH BY NATURE... (BEAT) TIME WE GOT REACQUAINTED.
I guess this isn't the first time you've heard this advice, and it's likely you'll have heard it from the professionals here as well.
Do you never stop to think that maybe - just for once - everyone else is right & you're wrong?
You've certainly got the brass bollocks to chase a career in script-writing, but try taking advice when it's offered, and you might end up making it.
Scojo - I've read the script, and had prepared a little review of it for you as promised - now given the way you've attacked people for giving you sensible advice, I'm a little wary about entering into this but here goes....
Positives first...
I think your approach is right - light relief from the citizens, Dredd enforcing the law in the city rather than being removed from his usual role as in the Stallone movie. I would say you've got the basic frame work of a better movie than the Stallone one. While the opening setpiece is way too long and needs work on making it actually realisable (Dredd would surely be squished like a bug when the saloon hits the block wall?), it would be a good way to introduce the scale of the city and some unique MC1 concepts like the block park, as well as showcasing Dredds remorseless pursuit of offenders.
As others have said though, opening with Dredd is a mistake IMO. Better to start with the tourist shuttle entering MC1 airspace and explaining a few things - eg Cursed Earth, Judges etc. Also, some background to the thugs criminal activities befiore we see Dredd would help. Let's say the jetpackers talk about hijacking the truck, letting the audience assume that its carrying drugs - when it turns out to be sugar, you've got a better joke. Otherwise, the scene where the citizens descend on the contents is v. v. confusing for the "non Dredd" audience you are keen to keep informed.
AS I said, the comedy cits is IMO the right angle, though you overuse the "clueless" citizen blindly stumbling through life oblivious to the crimes around them - you can do that once, maybe twice at most - after that, it becomes irritating. I liked the kids line to his mom as one of the jetpackers flys past out of control though.
Using undercover judges to highlight the strict regime street judges uphold would work well, though again, I think you need another angle - the crime stats thing is just too dry and oblique for my tastes and what was Hortez really hoping to achieve by leaking these? Why not just tell them about the sugar?
Now some negatives...
Big no-no is the euthanasia line from Hershey - its gonna make the Death sequel a little redundant!
The garbage chute setpiece reads like a keystone cops escapade - I could hear Benny Hill music as the cits kept throwing more and more garbage at Dredd - I was waiting for someone to empty their bedpan down the chute by the end...
I'm no fan of corrupt Judge storylines in the comic, let alone the film - a personal biase for sure. However, I think it's the wrong way to go as 1: its used in the Stallone movie and 2: The justice system doesn't need corruption to be very scary! Still, as I said, the idea of intertwining a couple of plots could make an impressive Dredd film - I just think you need more work at integrating Dredds involvement in these, and making Dredd more of a motivating factor - things moreoften seem to happen to Dredd rather than be instigated by him.
and finally - listen to people about the dialogue Scojo. Just cos you can find some lines where Dredd keeps it short, does not mean your script is not littered with lines that would only sound right if Noel Coward was playing Dredd! Also, Dredd does not qualify his opinions with "I think" and "may" - Dredd is always right!
An example:
The injured jetpacker is going to live;
"He may soon wish he hadn't" could be something like "Unlucky for him"
People have already given other examples of where your dialogue would sound ten times better (and more like Dredd) if you pared it down. Please listen to them. They are (in the main) only trying to help, and anyone who refuses to listen ain't gonna get any better in a hurry.
Now you know I've got no axe to grind against you Scoj, and I've never been pissed off by your constant run ins with other users (exasperated maybe!), so for Gods sake take this in the spirit it's meant - constructive criticism to help you do a better job on Possession.
If you were to go with some of the suggestions made here and do a rewrite yourself you might gain a little more respect from those who take every opportunity to take a pop at you - undoubtably your scripts would be rewritten if they ever get into production (all scripts are) - are you gonna bombard the rewriters with accusations of stupidity. If you seriously want to make it as a writer then knuckle down and make the changes I say...
To end on a positive note though, Scoj, your script is a better than the first ever Dredd script (the one with Anderson giving Dredd a steamy backrub!),a better starting point than the Stallone one (and how many rewrites did that get), and a more promising approach than the Dredd Reckoning/Possession outlines. Take the criticism to mind, not to heart, Scojo.
Er.. the euthanasia line was a joke believe it or not!!!!
Not to be taken seriously, as were the lines about air tax etc. Kind of obvious really if you think about it.:)
Read them again as humourous asides and you should get it!
I like the chute scene. It was meant to be OTT but could be interpreted as jokey. Don't quite see the Keystone Cops similarity but still...
The corrupt judges was not, I REPEAT WAS NOT my idea. I merely used the tagline from the original Shoreline Dredd Reckoning synopis. Truth without corruption. Their synopis implied corruption within justice dept so I just did my version.
I promise you I wouldn't do a corruption story if I wrote a Dredd script from scratch. In fact I once posted my idea for a Dredd film on this board. If I ever do a third script, that will be my idea. My true 'pure' Dredd script. Probably someone here remembers my idea!
Having said all that, the idea of Dredd fighting rogue judges is kinda appealing.
I can't agree with these dialogue quibbles.
For example.
Perp:
You'll never take me alive Dredd.
Dredd:
I think I can live with that.
Now everyone here will say Dredd should say:
I can live with that.
BUT by Dredd saying:
I think I can live with that
it makes the line more humourous.
You see of course Dredd can live with the fact that he is gonna kill the perp. So by adding the line I THINK you just reinforce the absurd line.
Get it now?
Thats the whole point of my so called doubting statements by Dredd. They are not supposed to be taken so literally!
I think it may have gone over some people's head that! It's supposed to be subtle!
As for rewrites, man I have wriiten many a post on screenwriting boards on that very subject.
The rewrite is the most vile thing there is. Serious. But that is for another board.
Oh by the way Wacher,
You never said you actually liked my script!
Did you?
scojo
synopsis synposess Oh sod it.
scojo
When you say the euthanasia line is a joke do you mean:
A: Hershey means it, but the audience are intended to laugh at how extreme the Judges are (in which case my original point stands)
B: Hershey is joshing with the council of Five about exterminating Citizens? (in which case this seems a little inappropriate for the serious woman you describe)
C: It's not really a line you'd consider using, its just a joke for us reading the script? (in which case you're mentalmungous!!)
AS for the "I think" bit, I see what you're saying, but it just makes him sound smarmy IMO - Dredd isn't out to spar with these people and sound witty - if Dredd says I can live with that, it's because he can! He's not point scoring (the Lawgiver will be doing that for him!).
Besides, even if you want to show Dredd being sarcy, you can do it in less words:
"I'm insane you know"
Your Dredd: "The thought had crossed my mind"
Sarcy Dredd: "You think?" However, this still doesnt sound like Dredd - He'd most probably say something along the lines of "No excuses for breaking the law creep" than attempt to belittle his opponent with his cutting wit.
You actually have a point in your script where Dredd says "I don't waste words", but with this kind of dialogue, he does, all the time.
The euthanasia line?
It's just a joke for the audience. To end the scene on a light note. It's like all the lines about taxes. Meant to be said seriously by the actors but are jokes.
Example re air tax:
Hershey:
The citizens have got to breathe, after all. But it cannot be considered their natural right to do so.
So as I say, I just wanted to end the scene on a similar funny note.
I don't agree with you about Dredd not being witty. I think Dredd is often jokey. Not overtly perhaps but he does have a black sense of humour.
Read all the short Daily Star Dredd's (the six panel ones) and you will see I'm right!
"The thought had crossed my mind" line is a joke too!
Here is this mad man killing people and Dredd states something that is so obvious. That is why it's humourous. Can't you see that?:)
Your line " you think" isn't as specific. I refer to Dredd's mind. I think it works better.
Humour doesn't always have to be in your face. Sometimes my lines are meant to be subtle. That is what I was trying to do with much of the humour.
Like the Elvis gag, or when the robot says" I wasn't built then."
You see it is their contradictory statements that make them sound absurd.
Its a style of humour that doesn't travel way when you just read it flat. Maybe it's too subtle for you lot!
You still haven't said whether you liked it!
scojo
Sorry Blackblood!:))
I didn't see your last post. Went straight to Watcher's!
LOL!
Your points.
Well considering Dredd is the star of the script/ movie, I feel he should be the one to impart key information. After all, if anyone knows what a futsie is, it's Dredd. Same with organ leggers.
Who has more authority to speak on the subject of futsies?
A citizen or Dredd?
Dredd of course.
So I can't go with your train of thought there.
On the leach thingy, I was going to leave out the word equally in my original version but I wanted to compound the comparison. 'Equally' was the word I used to do this. But I take your point.
scojo - first among equals:P
Hey now Scojo, I'm Daily Star Addict, so don't try that one on me :)
I don't think my sarcy Dredd line is a particularly good Dredd line myself Scoj, but it trips of the tongue a little easier - if someone was wielding a las-saw at me, i'd try to keep my one-liners short, just in case!
Dredd has a dry wit which he most often uses when speaking to other Judges. When speaking to the Citizens, Dredd is usually straight - I expect there's a section in Dredd's Comportment that says "Try not to wisecrack while trying to make an arrest - it lowers the tone. Once you've bagged 'em, feel free to make a witty aside to your fellow Judges" I'm not saying Dredd shouldn't be quick witted, just saying your approach doesn't really remind me of Dredd as he is portrayed in the comics. Of course, you may not be trying to recreate exactly the same guy we see week in week out, which is fair enough I suppose..
"DREDD -- UNLESS THEY PLANE TO SELL THEM..."
You asked what was wrong with your spelling.
Plan doesn't have an "E".
Unless you meant plane - in which case the dialogue definitely sucks.
Only read half the messages on this board - pointless until I've finished reading the script really.
Just think that crazy people on killing spree being called Futsie wouldn't confuse anyone. You don't need the official explanation of what a "Future Shock"ed person is. It's just MC slang really & even unDredd viewers could pick it up.
Same goes for organ leggers. It's kind of obvious what it means - especially if it has any relevance to the plot & if it doesn't then who cares if they get it or not?
Er Oddboygirl you are talking rubbish.
Here is the line from the site. Go check it if you don't believe me:
DREDD
Unless they plan to sell them to organ leggers. Criminals who profit from the illegal market in human body parts. Whatever the reason, the price in human suffering is immeasurable.
Plan not PLANE.
Blackblood typed it wrong.
I know how to spell plan.
PLEASE GET YOUR FACT RIGHT ODDBOYGIRL!
Geez!
scojo
I
Anyone wanna misquote more from my script?
Ha ha ha
scojo
I got my facts right.
I said I haven't read all of your script & was only commenting on Blackblood's post. I was guessing that he copied & pasted rather than typing out the whole thing again (blimey: If you did Blackblood you really have too much time on your hands!)
And I wasn't really implying that you couldn't spell plan but just that you might have missed a typo (which I now know you didn't - for which I apologise) as you have been known to typo before, & so have I so I'm not attacking you.
But I have nothing to lose here.
Except time.
scojo:
I have fouund time to read the first few scenes of reckoning, and i have some commments:
Firstly, I like the opening, maybe just a little long. And I agree with the others that your dialogue is a bit clunky at times, but I've never been the best at that myself. The characters work quite well, and the direction of the script is a lot better than the Stallone film, in that you're keeping to Dredd rather than making a Hollywood Blockbuster (TM) farce. I like the idea of introducing all these Dredd things like sugar and future technology and stuff, but maybe you've shoved in a bit too much of it to be credible in the context. Like your intro scene though. Sorry I can't name specifics, I'm in a hurry. Tell you later if you want.
Bye.
Ok folks something MEGA CONTROVERSIAL FROM MOI:
Isn't John Wagner's writing often clunky?
Perhaps clunky isn't the word I mean. I mean he does tend to write exposition. Certainly minimalist dialogue. He certainly isn't a Dan Abnett Sin Dex type of writer. Can you imagine Wagner writing a scene where Sinny and Dex are just chatting in their car?
I can't.
That's not a criticism of John but maybe the Dredd strip isn't the best example of flowing naturalist dialogue.
I mean look at the scene last prog with Dredd and Hershey. John had to explain what Sin city is, why it's moored in the big meg, who this terrorist woman (or is it guy?) is. See my point?
A comic strip (certainly in the 2k format) doesn't rely on much flowing dialogue, much character development. Perhaps Sin Dex is the exception. You only have 5 to 6 pages each week.
With film, you have more time to explain things. I wanted to mention the audit division etc. Yeah I know it may sound dull out of context but it makes it more believable. These are the judges.
Also the film is told from the judges point of view. Not the citizens. I think this is an important distinction.
So there is going to be less:
Cit#1
Hi, how's tricks?
Cit#2
Fine man. Had a great game of shuggy. Burnt that baize real good. You?
Cit#1
Na, watched Spice girls reunion on the historic channel. Cool it was. Ice cool.
You see that wasn't what I was trying to write.
Oh, Hope you like the rest of my script Tu!
scojo ice ice baby
>> Dredd does not qualify his opinions with 'I think' and 'may'. He is always right! <<
Good point. Subtle, but something I think you should take on board, Scojo. Otherwise it's far too reminiscent of Stallone's dialogue.
As for any dialogue suggesting Dredd's sense of humour, I'd keep it ambiguous. Dredd's always at his funniest when he's playing it straight. IIRC, there are a couple of lines from 'The Game Show Show' in which McGruder says: 'Not like Dredd to joke.' To which another Judge responds: 'Are you sure he's joking?'
Perhaps it might help if you picture a particular actor saying your dialogue. Kurt Russell and Vin Diesel have both been touted on the Message Board although Wesley Snipes as Blade might work better.