2000 AD Online Forum

2000 AD => General => Topic started by: 2000AD Online on 17 May, 2002, 12:30:31 PM

Title: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts
Post by: 2000AD Online on 17 May, 2002, 12:30:31 PM
I`ve never been a great Slaine fan but I liked the story where the fomorian sea devils pretended to be humans, served Slaine and Ukko sea water instead of beer and tried to feed him to their god.  One of the toughest sea devils was Balor of the Evil Eye.
  I just found out, thanks to an article in the Spectator, that the real Balor was king of an Irish Island called Tory Island.  The Island has 124 inhabitants and a real king (apparently with normal eyes).  It also has one tree so don`t go there for the landscape.

cheers,

Floyd the obsessive
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts...
Post by: Trough on 17 May, 2002, 03:38:51 PM
That's not obsessive, Mr K, just well-read.  Respect.

You want Slaine-related anorakness?  I once worked in a bookshop and some dweeb customer asked me for the Slaine graphic novel, but he used the "correct" Gaelic pronunciation (ie: "Shlawnay" or something similar).  

He couldn't understand why he'd had no luck when asking for it in the local comic shops.

The twat.

Trough, who only likes BBC Sea Devils

PS:  Of course, the fact that I remembered Slaine is pronounced that way suggests that I might be a twat too.  

PPS:  Crikey, how did I end up making such an arse of myself in just one small post?
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts...
Post by: Mudcrab on 17 May, 2002, 03:51:17 PM
He was also used in one of Michael Moorcocks Corum books (well before Slaine) which were also based around Celtic legends in a similar way to Slaine. Except Balor (don't think that was his name) had a HUGE single eye with leather straps attached to the lid so that during battle it was opened and destroyed everything before it! I think it had that tree in the same one but hey, a tree's a tree I suppose. Unless you're Marc Bolan then a tree's the last big thing in your life :o)
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: paulvonscott on 17 May, 2002, 04:28:21 PM
Anyone who prnounces Slaine other than slayne, is a titanic tit end, or a celt.  Thats always annoyed me that.

Like people who called nemesis, nemeesis.

They must be purged...

Mind you I just read Resyk as Res-ik for ages till I realised it was Re-sike.  Cor I felt like a nana.
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Oddboy on 17 May, 2002, 04:33:25 PM
I used to think it was "Nemsis" until I realised it wasn't.  And Judge "Hershley".  I blame my brother. I'm sure he told me.
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Trough on 17 May, 2002, 04:49:56 PM
Come to think of it, when I was very wee I used to pronounce Hammerstein "Hammersteen", thus completely missing the Rodgers & Hammerstein gag for approximately a decade.

Trough, who ahs an English dgree
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Mudcrab on 17 May, 2002, 04:55:16 PM
He he, nemeesis! that would be like Strontyum Dog yeah? Or Hammersteen, the pronunciation for anyone who hasn't done German at school, or heard or Rogers & Hammerstein.
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Mudcrab on 17 May, 2002, 05:00:15 PM
Ah, one of those. I was lucky(?) to have a family who liked Rogers and Hammerstein stuff, so I was set straight from an early age! I remember having big problems with 'Torkwimada' though :O)

In fact, it was only since playing Diablo 2 on the PC last year that I pronounced Great Uncle Baal correctly!
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: red_lichtie on 17 May, 2002, 05:19:44 PM
Isn't Balor a figure in celtic myth/legend as well?

RL
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Mudcrab on 17 May, 2002, 05:38:04 PM
He was indeed:

BALOR

Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Rambo on 17 May, 2002, 06:06:42 PM
Here is something I've been thinking about for a while. There are Teutonic influences found in the archaeology of Ireland in the very distant past (I'll get the dates later). "Sea Devils" was another name given to the Vikings. We know that the Teutonic races had a history of seafaring even in the 1st couple of centuries AD.

Odin in Teutonic legend is a one eyed giant who has control of magic. (the magic spear and sword also appear, but I won't go into that).

Balor is a one eyed giant who has magic powers.


Are Balor and Odin one and the same person? Just a thought...
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Mudcrab on 17 May, 2002, 06:50:00 PM
Could well be, although I don't imagine there's anyone that could confirm it. Sounds plausible though. A lot of ancient legends seem to have similar roots and parallels with others.

All leading back to the ancient civilisation of Atlantis!! Nah, only joking!
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Trout on 17 May, 2002, 07:25:18 PM
I was in a comic shop the other week and the terribly nice man behind the counter referred to Slaine.

He pronounced it the simple way, then corrected himself and said, "Or Shlawn-yeh or however it should be pronounced."

Just how did the pedantic PC brigade end up influencing comics like that?

It's a complete pain in the arse and - unless you actually speak Gaelic or ancient Irish or whatever - no-one has any right to insist on archaic pronunciations.

Mind you, I quite enjoyed it when everybody got shorty with Tharg and insisted he call us Terrans.

Spleen vented.

MikeD
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Oddboy on 17 May, 2002, 07:36:42 PM
Agreed.  He's called Slaine because he likes killing people.
Just like Sam Slade (That S-L-A-Y-E-D to you!).


Earthlet Oddboy.
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Rambo on 17 May, 2002, 09:28:47 PM
IIRC in the into to the Horned God (or maybe another one) Mills admits there are a couple of places like Castle Slane pronounced "Slain" so it didn't really matter. That's how I pronounce it, anyway, and I couldn't give a smeg - despite being heavilly into the Celtic stuff.
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Mudcrab on 17 May, 2002, 10:17:33 PM
Yep, Slanes Castle at Cruden Bay and Slain Castle just north of Dublin (more likely where it came from). I remember thinking that if I started calling it that then I'd end up explaining it to everyone and coming across all anal retentive like :o) So I just let it lie!
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: plastikman on 18 May, 2002, 01:29:07 AM
thanks for clearing that up pvs - i couldn't the relevance of it being called - "re-sick" - it makes more sense now!!!

plas-thick-man.
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Buddy on 18 May, 2002, 03:30:49 AM
Ta me ag dul godti an laithreas - SO THERE!!!!!!
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: O Lucky Stevie! on 18 May, 2002, 01:29:51 PM
i had a friend in high school (honest! you lot are all just jealous) who insisted it was, "rouge trooper."

i've wet my knickers!
steven l'enfant terrible
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Rambo on 18 May, 2002, 03:42:35 PM
OK - uneducated prats pronouncing Hammerstein Hammersteen I can understand, but calling a blue guy "Rouge"? Puh-leeeeeeese!
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: JimBob on 18 May, 2002, 04:19:51 PM
 mind you if he had a thing for Rouge it may explain why he was always on his own.
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Jayzus B. Christ on 18 May, 2002, 08:25:47 PM
Balls, mate. Most people I have known who have ever read 2000ad have pronounced it 'Slawn-yeh', and that's the way I've pronounced it since I was about 5 or 6 years old. Then again, I'm Irish.
For what it's worth, there's a well-known hill near where I'm from, called Slane and pronounced Slane in English, but in Irish it is Sl?ine and pronounced Slawn-yeh.
I wonder how Pat Mills pronounces it?
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Jayzus B. Christ on 18 May, 2002, 08:52:40 PM
The Balor of Irish legend was pretty similar to the one in Slaine. He lead a race called the Fomorians from Tory Island to attack the clans of Ireland. I reckon he probably actually existed, but story-telling has changed him into a one-eyed giant over the years, and the Fomorians into a race of demons. Sidhe, or Fairies, were also an ancient Irish race, but allegedly went underground (through gateways into the 'Fairy Mounds', which some people are still superstitious of) and passed into the realm of myth.
Jayzus, one-time student of Celtic Studies, has spoken.
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Jayzus B. Christ on 18 May, 2002, 08:53:39 PM
The Balor of Irish legend was pretty similar to the one in Slaine. He lead a race called the Fomorians from Tory Island to attack the clans of Ireland. I reckon he probably actually existed, but story-telling has changed him into a one-eyed giant over the years, and the Fomorians into a race of demons. Sidhe, or Fairies, were also an ancient Irish race, but allegedly went underground (through gateways into the 'Fairy Mounds', which some people are still superstitious of) and passed into the realm of myth.
Jayzus, one-time student of Celtic Studies, has spoken.
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Jayzus B. Christ on 18 May, 2002, 08:58:12 PM
And another thing, just to clear up the Balor / Odin confusion: As far as I know, the Fomorians were part of the pre-Christian era of Irish legend / history, and were around long before the Viking invasions.
And one last thing: A friend of mine from an Irish-speaking area knows someone called Sl?ine (pronounced Slawn-yeh). It's a girl's name, proving Sl?ine MacRoth is just a mincing great fairy.
Sl?n anois.
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Trout on 19 May, 2002, 08:05:49 PM
My point, Jaysus, was that no-one should be getting pedantic and making poor men in comic shops worry about offending people.

I think we're all agreed - let's pronounce it however we like!

Of course, if you are Irish (as I said) and would pronounce it in some less Anglicised way (and, God knows, I've been known to vent my spleen over globalisation of language) then, fair enough.

- E'm fae Dundee an' eh'm a lobie-dosser -

MikeD
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Rambo on 19 May, 2002, 09:41:07 PM
Oh, well, if you pronounced it correct, good for you! But as you say, you're Irish. I'm not, and it's taken me a long time to get used to Gaelic and Welsh pronounciations. Of course, with Welsh you have the added problem that some words aren't pronounced how they should be given the rules...


What you mussed have missed in my post (I thought I'd made myself clear, but obviously not) was that from the archaeology there are Teutonic influences several centuries BC, way before the Viking period in Ireland in the dark ages.#

Currently, I'm slightly annoyed because I've lost the source.

So, what I'm saying is that if there is record of Teutonic people living or trading in Eire way back in the Iron age or before, could this be where the Formors and Balor in legend come from?

The rest of the Leabhar Gabbala seems to have some basis in fact, to explain the names and origins of the people that came to Britain and Ireland in the milennia since the end of the ice age - so why not the 'sea demons'?

Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Jayzus B. Christ on 19 May, 2002, 09:50:47 PM
I have to say, I agree totally- there's nothing sadder than people getting pedantic about comics. Of course anyone who hasn't studied the Irish language couldn't be expected to pronounce Slaine the Gaelic way. And as I said, 'Slaine' in English IS pronounced 'Slane'. I don't think I explained my point too well, but all I meant was that not everybody who pronounces it 'Slawn-yeh' is a pedantic twat. I'm just a twat anyway, I don't need to be pedantic.
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: Jayzus B. Christ on 19 May, 2002, 10:03:06 PM
Now I see what youre saying about Viking influences (and again, it honestly doesnt bother me how anyone pronounces... that word). I don't know: characters in Irish myths often end up having the same name but seem to have loads of different stories around them. Fionn McCumhaill (whom Slaine is partly based on), for instance, appears as both a human warrior and a monstrous giant, while Brigid is both a Christian saint and a pagan goddess. Most of what I've read, however suggests that Balor and the Fomorians were indeed from Tory Island, but maybe all outside invaders were referred to as 'sea demons'? And is is possible, of course, that the island was a base for foreign attackers or traders.
Title: Re: Anorak alert - Slaine Facts......
Post by: johnnystress on 22 May, 2002, 09:14:27 PM
Well Im from Donegal in Nothwest  of Ireland, Tory Island is just off the coast.
The parish I lived in is called Cloghaneely(Cloch Ceann 'fhaoile')which means The Stone of the Head of Mac Neely, So called because there is and old white rock perched on a pillar there that has a red vein running through it, where its said Balor cut the head of MacNeely way back when, the red vein is supposed to be his blood.
As a kid i was delighted with thee references to Balor and Tory and the Famorians


oh yeah and I pronounce it Slawn-yeh as well....ho ..hum