It doesn't seem that long ago that when one kid punched another, people were still talking about it in horror several weeks later- now kids are stabbing eachother in the fucking head!
Isn't it about time that there were some serious consequences for this sort of behaviour? I'm thinking serious loss of rights for the wretched little c*nts- and I'm not just talking about the nutter with the scissors either...
Discuss.
Link: Bring back flogging!
According to the television news this morning she was stabbed 5 times to the head & eye.
This was inside a school...INSIDE...bloody hell, times have changed. People need to understand consequences of their actions, this is crazy.
Hmm - On that site the school say this is an isolated incident yet on the news this morning her dad said he had reported bullying to the school on three seperate occasions.
I know I'm often painted into a right wing corner- and some of it (SOME of it, Gary) is justified- but I can't help but feel that the biggest problem is that kids today are all too aware of the fact that they're virtually untouchable.
I'd fully support locking those little fuckers up for 90 days, that's for sure...
I think that is pretty much exactly the problem - I'm not in the right wing corner on pretty much any issue but this.
I think the problem stems from the idea that respect is something you know have to "earn", rather than something that is something you start with, and might lose through your actions.
So in the old days - respect your elders was the standard - some bright spark pointed out thats a bit of a blanket statement, and now the reverse logic holds - don't respect anyone unless they have somehow done something to impress you.
Having got through my schooldays without seeing anyone carved up, despite going to a pretty low rent school, it does make me exceedingly worried for my little un.
Personally, I'm for having the fuckers tied to chairs and having the same injuries done to them.
The feral knife carrying idiots i had to put up with at school have gone on to have feral little shits of their own who have even less morals and are more aware of their 'rights'.
Brilliant.
I bet the piglet that did this is sitting in a police station saying 'do i look bothered?' whilst her sow mother shouts at everyone for daring to hold her beloved daughter.
There needs to be more done. Investigations, before the fact. Suspicious behaviour should not be tolerated.
These bullies are not stupid. They choose their time carefully. They use passive/aggression and cunning on the par with some master deviant criminal. They pick the place , the time with meticulous maliciousness.
It comes as natural as finding a spot to piss .
Creepy, delusional shits.
Not so. My mate works as a teacher in a rough London area, and he says they just do it, then tell you to prove it. Even if you've seen the little bastards do it with your own eyes, they'll lie to you and front it out.
I've thought about this, and what, exactly can you do in that situation?
I'm with the tory monkey on this one - bring back flogging. A knowledge of consequences is vital to making the little bastards learn some respect.
I think the problem stems from lack of respect all round. Parent to parent/parent to child/child to parent.
How many time have we heard some Vicky Pollard look a like retard say 'shut it you little bastard, you're doing m'fookin''ed in!!'
Where does the parent get this from... their parent(s)
My solution:
1. Bring back the cane.
2. Parents to support the teacher/education system fully. If they do not want the teacher to punish them, let them punish their child in front of the teacher.
3. Bring back national service and learn some respaect! They may walk in a little bastard with an attitude, but they will work out a better person.
Rant over.
NOT a Tory, you Ursine oaf- although I accept the term 'monkey'.
It's a toughie, isn't it? What *can* you do? We used to have a teacher who was a bit liberal with the back of his hand- and although I wouldn't want to see people like that in charge of children again- he didn't very often get messed with. Everybody knew he'd give you a good slap for your trouble, so nobody gave him any.
Teachers today are often powerless to even intervene in fights between pupils- or they do so at the risk of being prosecuted for 'manhandling' one of the horrible little bastards afterwards.
I don't know what the answer is (and I don't really want to flog kids)- but as Watcher pointed out, there's definately a big problem with respect- or the lack of it.
Violence breeds violence: so slapping children about is not, I believe, the answer. That's just going to brutalise them even more.
Do you guys remember the cane / belt? That was no bed of roses, and it didn't stop bullying. In fact, persistent offenders used to boast about getting the belt, about how they could take it and about how 'hard' they were.
It was certainly no solution for one nutter at our school that used to take rusty nails to people: he'd been belted all over Scotland - he just didn't give a shit and was some kind of psychopath.
Plus, there were a lot of teachers who were bullies: buying the latest triple-skin leather belt with 3 tongues for extra pain and dishing it out left, right and centre for a variety of tiny offences. Bastards. Yeah, let's bring that back!
And as for National Service being a solution: you're wrong. Friends of mine who joined the army have all come back as brutalised morons who like punching things for fun, whereas they were perfectly pleasant people before they joined up.
People don't learn respect in the army: they learn to be robots controlled by fear.
The solution to bullying is not more bullying.
And the girl that stabbed the other girl was arrested and will be dealt with through the legal process: so there are consequences. It's not as if the UK suddenly turned into Lord of the Flies overnight - there was one stabbing.
I know this school this is the school my children would have gone to if Id stayed in Camberley. It was literally 5 mins walk from my old house. I think the thing thats shocks me is the fact that its situated in a fairly affluent area. Even I am beginning to think that a drastic method needs to be used on some of these kids, unfortunatly...
Anyway on respect? Its difficult to teach people to respect others, when they seem to have little respect for themselves.
Slips
"I wouldn't want to see people like that in charge of children again"
"And the girl that stabbed the other girl was arrested and will be dealt with through the legal process: so there are consequences."
That's the point. The consequences are usually laughable. What exactly is going to happen to this girl? What will happen to the girls that were with her at the time? Children need to learn that travelling in packs and terrorizing others is not acceptable in the first place. As per usual the school is calling it "an isolated incident".
Is it fuck. Isolated in the that it's the first time it's escalated to a full on stabbing, maybe...
Having a criminal record usually brings cudos.
'It's not as if the UK suddenly turned into Lord of the Flies overnight - there was one stabbing.'
Surley that is one stabbing too many!
Every school had their nutter who seemed to revel in their notoriety. The problem is that the number of people seemingly willing to act in a similar manner seems to be increasing, and I would put that down not so much to lack of discipline at school, but certainly to lack of discipline at home, and an agenda that has instilled in people the idea that they have rights but no responsibilities.
I didn't behave myself at school because I was afraid of the cane - it was because I was afraid of my dad!
If you take away a fear of consequences, then surely you open up the realm of unacceptable behaviour to more than just the committed psychopath child that we remember from our own childhoods?
Its not a particularly nice thing to have to put threats over peoples heads in order to keep them well behaved, but I'd rather some potential loon though twice about carving up someone because of a perceived threat, than him becoming an actual threat to someone else. By threat, I don't mean a "beating" - as you say, these kids are probably used to that kind of thing, so have no fear of it - I wish I could have some faith in the Law dealing with this appropriately, but something tells me that these kids must feel they have very little to lose by behaving this way, and possibly more to gain...
At this stage, returning to corporal punishment wouldn't be a good idea. I think the only solution is to prepare for the future, with a combination of shock therapy and selective breeding programmes. Or rather preventative breeding programmes!
CCTV in schools with anyone caught doing this kind of shit sent into a life of slavery and torture to improve third world quality of life. They could make a reality show about it, then their dumb-fuck fat pig mothers can see their filthy spawn suffer.
or in other words, I haven't a clue.
I'm in total agreement that there should be serious consequences for those that choose to terrorise or maim others, be they children or adults.
It's just that the theme of the thread had started to run along the lines of "I'll show 'em respect, by God!" and I baulked against that.
"I didn't behave myself at school because I was afraid of the cane - it was because I was afraid of my dad!"
Too chuffin' right. Too many parents nowadays, to lay down a giant generalisation, are rubbish, for whatever reason.
If only we could enforcing a license to have sex.
Reintroducing corporal punishment wouldn't work today- and I wouldn't really want to see it in schools anyway. That said, I've certainly no objection to teachers physically throwing unruly pupils out of a lesson if they refuse to leave of their own accord (for example)- and if that puts the shits up them- good. It should.
Equally, I accept that a lot of teachers wouldn't want to be put in that position. Maybe schools ought to start employing 'bouncers' to do what teachers shouldn't have to do- take physical control of students when necessary? Parents could either consent or take their brats elsewhere.
Of course, all this is straying off the point a bit...
I was never caned at school- but I did get slapped legs every now and then (seriously!). I'd be due another bollocking when I got home if I whined about it to my Mum and Dad as well.
Interestingly, Sara's got four nephews- two have lived here all their lives, the other two in Malta until the last couple of months. The two Maltesers are well behaved, polite and can't believe what a doddle school here is.
The other two. Fucking hell- where do you want me to start?
Kids and their violence these days. I blame the media. There are comics out there depicting graphic violence that kids can pick up for 'entertainment'. The publishers should be ashamed of themselves.
(c) Daily Mail Saturday 12 November
I think upbringing is a real big part in how kids behave. If a chav & chavette have a baby then where's the surprise that it grows up to be a chav.
I was raised in a rough area of Glasgow but my parents taught me right from wrong. I still got in with a bad lot and as a teen started getting into trouble with the cops. Then one day I just decided I didn't want to do that anymore and stayed in to finish reading Planet of the Apes. My chums got the message eventually and stopped calling round. Now every couple of years I hear about them either being junkies, imprisoned or dead.
I often wonder where I might have ended up.
So the answers simple...more pulp sci-fi books for teenagers.
skimming this;
corperal punishment would only make hard fuckers who don't give a shit, harder.
its all very well saying the parents should support schools more, but how about schools giving a shit about anything other than league table bollox ? " hello my son is deeply distressed and has just slashed his wrists rather than attend school , he needs learning support " ... " we'll mark him down as absent for now thankyou for calling goodbye " as far as i'm concerned the 'education' system is currently a ginormous pile of shit upon which i could rant for hours.
but theres also very stupid parents out there, who buy their little darlings ten billion gadgets & designer crap rather than actually have a conversation with the sprogs.
I feel peer group is playing a MUCH MUCH more important role in young peoples lifes than family, theres such a generation gulf which stupid bbc sit coms make light fun at , but really is no laughing matter. How do you know wether your kid is carrying a knife to school or not ? really , are they going to let you search their pockets ? i don't think so.
they have not only lost respect, they have lost empathy, we have a society which veers everyone towards sociapathic behavior. everyones too busy too greedy too stressed too selfish.
kids today think "fuck it why should i care?
no-one cares about me? fuck it everyone else gets away with it. why should i take responsibility for my actions? who gives a fuck i can do what i want, the punishments no worse than life as it is. theyve all got it coming to them, theyd do the same to me, i am the victim here, because society hates me "
which is why i tried to raise mine in brig-o-doon, which turned out just as fucked up as an inner city.
rant rant rant. still ive got all the knives & gun safe now.
i truely fear for this next generation, its about time someone talked to them & listened & started back with basic basic toddler social skills.
and look at tele?! before even 6pm youve got, illicit sex, drugs , violence, even neighbours crosses the bloody line for whats appropriate for young children frankly.
Sorry, Bou- but it's all your own stupid fault for being a fucking hippy*...
*I'm joking- but admit to pissing myself as I typed it- sorry!
;)
bastard !! >;[
only you could (maybe) get away with that ( nearly).
awesome tho my hippy ways were, you cannot attribute all the youth of the UK to me. ha!
Once again Scotland leads the way. In Glasgow everyone carries at least one knife. Keeps everyone on an even footing dont ya know.
;-) I think
a mate of mine, his son, is OBbSESSED with weapons, comes round my house & starts hassaling me everytime about my swords etc, & his dad went & bought him samari ones & ive seen him arsing around with his 6 year old brother . ARGHHHG, i refuse to discuss it with him, " theyre ornaments, theyre not for kids, NO do not touch, i am not interested in kids & weapons, here, look at my comics"
but his dad encourages him, & has got him boxing lessons, yeah so he can 'defend' himself, but all they ever do is this macho fight talk hitting each other stuff..
last night they were mucking about with a paintball gun " over ?100 man, but keeps them out of mischief " er..... NO. i got VERY GRumpy,
" i have issues with guns, do NOT point that fucking thing near me "
but then i'm just a girlie misery guts with no sense of 'fun'.
I agree that the problem ultimately starts with poor parenting. At my school, a lot of pupils were from the council estate that the school was in the middle of, but there were eually large numbers of pupils bussed in from the generally affluent surrounding villages who had a lot of disposable income, due to the fact that both parents were at work now their children had "grown-up" (Ha!). Generally this would lead to the dodgier elements of the rich kids (I hate this term, but there's not other way of stating it) being amplified by their new friends, who now had lots more money to buy booze with.
Most of my teachers saw this, even the liberal ones, and didn't really know how to sort it out.