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...dont forget to vote Saxon...

Hurrah the long awaited Kula Shaker episode. Go Crispan

Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/

That's it. I'll be throwing my disgruntled hat into the ring early this week. All those with not interest in parliamentary democracy, look away now...

Vote Saxon? VOTE SAXON? This isn't some 2-bit republic, you know. The Prime Minister of this country is nominated by the Monarch as (usually) leader of the party with most seats in Commons. Plastering the whole nation in VOTE SAXON posters is something of an insult of elephantine proportions to whomever from the party stands in the local constituency.


RTD, you cretin! This was a chance to educate people on how their government works, not reinforce their foolish beliefs!

Well, technically the assumption is that most people vote on the personal celebrity of a party's leader - and that's certainly the assumption largely held and maintained in the national press - though currently people actually seem to be swaying more towards voting on pressing local issues, such as hospitals, post office closures, that sort of thing, which has actually seen a great rise in independant canditates and a further fracturing of the vote away from the three traditional parties.

That said, we don't live in a republic, so I doubt that any political party would be so brazen as to admit all this by blatantly campaigning under the name of their leader. Unless of course you were the Referendum Party or the DUP, in which case you're little more than a vanity tool for your nutjob of a leader in the first place.

Or you're an evil alien with plans of world domination.

Much like Kilroy.

"Or you're an evil alien with plans of world domination."

But...surely those are the major aims of *every* politician...?

Even Boris Johnson?

Boris Johnson's aims are domination of Henley and being a twat. He's half way there

Sigh, at least this hackneyed device it makes a change from RTD's usual hackneyed device of news reports to show the world being taken over by an alien force. Here's a tip Russell: Think smaller.

Guest stars tonight are Anne Widdecombe and McFly.





Can't wait!

Oh, and John Sims

Rather a harsh critique from the usually affable Floyd.
He's right, mind you, but I don't think I've ever heard (read?) him say "twat" before. :)

It's interesting that a Welshman is using the name 'Saxon' for a bad guy though isn't it?

The saxons were the guys who took over most of mainland Britain from the native Britons (i.e. Welsh ancestors).  They're one of the progenitors of the English... (In fact the Gaelic and Welsh words for Englishman translate literally as 'saxon'.)

I wonder if that was intentional, or just one of those little coinkydinks....

Hee hee.

I've got a few more wrangles after seeing it, but in general I was quite happy with it all.

We saw Gallifrey! With the robes and the silly hats and everything!

I had to go lie down...

Pretty good, apart from typical RTDyness.

My youngest (Nano-bolt- 7) broke into wailing at the end of this weeks show. She was utterly inconsolable- Why?

Simply because the show had finished! She is petrified of the last episode and the huge wait for next year!

Mind- they've been watching the five doctors this week, courtesy of Grandad finding an unopened VHS in his TV cupboard.

Bolt-01- loved it.

...it was nice to see they didnt mess with the Time Lords costomes from the days of yore, i miss the guards though, and this is the first time weve ever seen the Time Lords citadel from the out-side, am i right in thinking it is losly based on the one featured in the Doctor Who comic strip drawn by Dave Gibbons around about 1980?...

It all sounds great, apart from the writer.  Any enjoyment would be spoiled for me by RTD.

If he didn't write, and didn't edit scripts, just porduced, It sounds like it could be brilliant.

Glad people are enjoying it, I shall sit alone in the dark with my copy of Pyramids of Mars.

Thats about my take on it - its great, except the head writer isnt a very good writer...
 
By which i mean, the only sci-fi ideas
he has had that have impressed me have later turned out to be blatant swipes from other work, and his characters all talk the same - "its like when you fancy someone and they dont know youre there" is a terrible line as an example, because its classic "Russell voice" that all his characters use (even the Master - "you asking me out on a date?" and because it doesnt make much sense in the context other than to clunkily point up the unsubtle and dull 'one sided romance' thing.

This felt like the fourth draft of the same script - like he wasnt happy with how the Slitheen one turned out, so he did it again with the Sycorax one, then again with the Cyberman/Dalek one, then again with this.  someone should point out you cant have 4 'first' contacts, thats kind of a given.

There were good bits, but so often they're undercut with naff.  

Only a madman would apply balanced and considered criticism to a tv show that has British intelligence trying to blow someone up with a bomb that consists of a clock counting down to detonation in large numbers on the front, taped to several bright red tubes with DYNAMITE written up their sides in huge white letters.
I'm in two minds whether the Valiant was a swipe from Captain Scarlet or Nick Fury (via the Ultimates).  It looked dead nice, though.  On the outside, at least.

"Sigh, at least this hackneyed device makes a change from RTD's usual hackneyed device of news reports to show the world being taken over by an alien force"

My mistake...perhaps I should have watched.

Link: News reports used show the world being taken over

I rather enjoyed that episode - the past few have been a great improvement on the last season.

John Simm was just brilliant - perhaps he should have been the Doctor...

Oh, and Arrisarris? Thanks for posting that huge image! Now we can ALL have the fun of scrolling horizontally in order to read everyone else's posts!

-- Mike

That was great fun

I am now curious what the Tocefane are due to the masters last comments to the older Doctor

I'd imagine they're something to do with the Tardis tbh

"John Simm was just brilliant - perhaps he should have been the Doctor..."

Of course, he still could be!  But I don't think John Simm would want to commit to another long series.

... thanks, i was trying to make it larger so everyone could see!!!   (not!)...

...it was my mistake, just got carried away with image posting...

...does anyone else have their own theories as to who Harold Saxon/The Masters wife may be? also who are the orbs if they arnt real aliens???...

I think it was a wonderful episode.

The whole Vote Saxon thing is easily explained away by the whole personality cult thing, didn't anyone see The Amazing Mrs Pritchard? Saxon explained it as well with the cabinet being members of other parties that came over to him.
You can win simply by not being someone hated or mistrusted by the public (eg Tony Blair or Harriet Jones).

Saxon's wife was very well acted I thought and love the choice of music, how weird all that is though. Can't wait to see how this ends.
Does kind of mess up a lot of stuff though, how does the events in yesterdays episode effect the other future things the Doctors already seen, eg the 2012 Olympics episode.

Did I watch a different episode to everyone else? I found that Sim's pantomime mugging just made me wish that they'd stuck with Jacobi.

The minor geek thrill of Old School Time Lords couldn't offset the irritation of the usual RTD bollocks and lazy writing ...

"So, Doctor! I have you at my mercy ... you, my ancient nemesis. You, the only other living being in the universe who knows how a TARDIS works and thus might be able to thwart my evil schemes.

"But, I won't kill you without batting an eyelid like I've been doing to everyone else throughout this episode. Oh, no -- I'm going to age you by 100 years ... that's bound to fuck up someone who's already 900 years old and can regenerate their body every time it stops working like it's supposed to."

Bah!

Jim

The geek in me wondered why 100 years would be enough to make him look 100ish, given time lords age much more slowly than humans - surely he'd need about 300 years worth of age to get to that state - Hartnell was more sprightly and wasnt he a few hundred years old?

I was disappointed that they couldn't have had him mucking about with it first, getting a frame or two of his previous incarnations here and there.

- Steve

hmm, I think you're letting retro-continutity get the better of you there. I look at it from the point of view of Biblical timespans: 100 years is just a shorthand for "a very long time".

Personally, I thoroughly enjoyed it; as the gf said, "it's great the way it manages to be scary and funny and stupid and clever all at the same time!"

my fiver's on those sphere things being the Time Lords, one way or another.

Go Martha!

"Hartnell was more sprightly and wasnt he a few hundred years old?"

This is an excellent point that I hadn't considered in all its implications ... even if we allow for Hartnell not being the Doctor's first incarnation (and I believe that this may, in itself, be heresy in some quarters), by the time we get to Baker (T), it's established that the Doctor is some (IIRC) 750+ years old.

This clearly means that barring injury or illness, a single Time Lord lifespan between regenerations must be measured in centuries ...

So, take your laser-fucking-screwdriver and your lazarus-fucking-machine and stick 'em up yer arse, Russell!

Cheers

Jim

anyway, who said Gallifrey yeras were the same as Earth years, eh?

I always thought it amazing that the Doctor got through 700+ years in one incarnation, yet ever since he's averaged about 3 years per body. I'm probably missing out on some uber-geekery here, but did the Hartnell Doc just lead a very sheltered life immediately prior to the first adventures we know about?

I've either got a serious case of deja vu or this question's already been asked in a previous thread not so long ago.

Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if the globe aliens were timelords too, but that would clash a bit with the Master's apparent shock when the Doctor told him Galiphrey burnt, and that they were the last. You'd have thought the globes would have told him (although it's quite possible they might have lost some memory with their bodies I guess).

He could have been faking it of course, but I thought that part was a genuine moment between them.

I just realized that last sentence looks funny.

I reckon they're human brains in dalek-style robot "bodies".

The evidence:

1. RDT wrote this, and he's a bit obsessed with Daleks.

2.  the following snippet from the Harold Saxon site:

Q. Is it true that Harold Saxon plans to reintroduce National Service?

A. Harold Saxon is modernising our armed forces, making them a more appealing and satisfying career prospect for young people. Recruitment is at a sixty-year high. Therefore we feel the reintroduction of National Service is unnecessary.

Possibly the rocket full of future humans "Professor Yana" blasted into space last week?

I'll second the future human killing globe idea.  The Master said it'd break The Doctor's hearts and there's nothing he loves more than us fantastic, brilliant humies.  Although having them drop through a rift and start wiping out their ancestors causes a bit of a paradox.  Guess that's why The Master built a pardox machine.

"Sim's pantomime mugging just made me wish that they'd stuck with Jacobi"
In confidential after the episode John Simm said that all his manic moments were specifically written into the script so he just followed them to the letter.  Couldn't tell whether that was a diguised apology for them or a celebration of the detail RTD puts into the script.

Seeing as that bomb timer was set for the moment The Doctor and his companions were in the flat and The Master made a comment to them on live Tv couldn't he have also had the foresight to deploy a large force of armed police there after they'd entered the house.  It would saved a lot of running around.  

"hmm, I think you're letting retro-continutity get the better of you there. I look at it from the point of view of Biblical timespans: 100 years is just a shorthand for "a very long time"."

I'd buy that, if it weren't for RTD's clear and infantile belief that big numbers make things more science-fictiony ... or are we overlooking the year two-thousand-gazillion, or whatever it was.

Cheers

Jim

A couple more reasons to think they're the future humans.

The Master's sneery dismissal of Utopia, in the far future makes it sound the Utopia project was the Master's, and Yana was unaware of what it actually was.

His tissue compression gizmo would enable someone to fit inside the Toclafane. (I'm hoping it's that rather than just a brain, as it's been done enough with the Cybermen and Daleks using bits of humans)

- Steve

My theory, posted on SFX board too, is:

 The spheres contain the spirits of Time Lord children who looked into the VOrtex, in a Neitzsche kind of "they looked into the Vortex, it looked back" stylee. This explains why they talk and act like children, and the cold, dark thing they are afraid of is the vortex.

"The spheres contain the spirits of Time Lord children who looked into the VOrtex, in a Neitzsche kind of "they looked into the Vortex, it looked back" stylee. This explains why they talk and act like children, and the cold, dark thing they are afraid of is the vortex."

This makes a lot of sense, and would set up a "you must destroy your race AGAIN" sort of thing that I could see RTD going for in a big way ...

Cheers

Jim

I didn't like the sneery in-reference to the theory of the Master being the Doctor's brother - 'Ho ho ho, you've been watching too much t.v.'

This is probably because a part of me still harbours a longing for an alternative universe where Roger Delgado didn't die so tragically early, and they were able to film the planned Pertwee story featuring the said revelation, bringing an end to the Master's appearances before he could jump the shark.
Yes, the revelation would have been a tad 'hokey' and obvious, but it would have worked in the context of the Pertwee era and saved the character's endless return appearances throughout the 80's which gradually dimished him to second-rate panto villian status.

I think the line in this episode was meant to be a knowing in-joke to fandom, but it came across to me as a bit of a smarmy 'what a lot of shit old Who was' dismissal.

Why would an amazingly clever evil genius play such an innocuous piece of chart fluff when his plan all came together?

He could have least put Ride of the Valkyries or some other cliched music on.

"Why would an amazingly clever evil genius play such an innocuous piece of chart fluff when his plan all came together?"

Because it contained the title of the episode in the lyrics.

DO YOU SEE?

Maybe mrs saxon picked it and the master just decided to go along with it

"Maybe mrs saxon picked it and the master just decided to go along with it"

Wise man, that Master.

For some reason, I now have visions of the season finale being the Doctor and the Master squaring up in a pub car park while Martha shrieks "Go ON -- kick 'is 'ead in!" and Mrs Saxon wails "Leave it, 'arold ... 'e's not worth it!"

Well, it'd save a couple of quid on the FX budget, anyway.

Cheers

Jim

"Why would an amazingly clever evil genius play such an innocuous piece of chart fluff when his plan all came together?"

Because everybody, from prehistoric man to the last humans in the year two billion, (or the year 300 trillion for that matter) love cheesy pop and Big Brother and talking about who they fancy... be they human, good Timelord,  evil Timelord or evolved tree.  Its why Russell wins all those awards you know...

Annoyingly, this ep has bashed my faith after a quite good run of squinting at the bad bits and concentrating on the good.

I tend to lean towards the domes being future peeps who ended up in Utopia to me 'mashed' somehow in to these things...and the PARADOX machine being the thing that allows them to come back and kill their great-great-great, etc. Grand-Parents.

Didn't they just retool The Master as The Joker in that episode.

A lot of really dodgy stuff in that episode.

I think you are all overanalysing "the paradox machine" thing. I think he just thinks it's a cool name (much as we had with the Genesis Ark in the Dalek Cyberman episode).

Still, Tiny Tips liked it.

I think this helps to clean up the mystery of the orbs somewhat...

Link: SPOILERIFIC!

Does it? How so?

S'obvious, innit...?

Is this the bit you mean??
The entire human race has been reduced to slavery

I think its the eighth, ninth and tenth words after that clause that are the giveaway, although it could be left slightly open to interpretation.

For some reason, I now have visions of the season finale being the Doctor and the Master squaring up in a pub car park while Martha shrieks "Go ON -- kick 'is 'ead in!" and Mrs Saxon wails "Leave it, 'arold ... 'e's not worth it!"

Heh heh. Perhaps there'll be a cat fight with Martha and Mrs Saxon too. Lots of slapping and hair pulling whilst the Doctor and Master take a little time out to watch.... ("Ooooh, that must hurt!  So... where were we? Oh yes, I was trying to take over the universe and you were trying to stop me.").

Fresh from B3TA:

Skeabost, here's the uber-geekery you want.

The Doctor was around 450 years old when he was played by Troughton, 750 when played by Tom Baker, and 900 when played by Colin Baker.  One line of speculation is that the first Doctor left Gallifrey around age 440, the second Doctor spent a couple of centuries as an undercover agent of the Time Lords after The War Games (see Season 6B on Wikipedia), and that the events of season 17 take place over the course of about a hundred years.  That covers most of the big gaps in the aging.

Just a thought...could it be that the Time Lords brought the Master back for another reason...and that the drumming in his head is the sound of something (or someones) trying to get out?

How's this for a theory: the original signal that Professor Yana picked up, inviting the humans to come to Utopia, was generated by the Master's paradox machine. The Professor launched what was left of the human race into space, where the Master's fiendish trap, laid way back in the 21st century was sprung, bringing the future humans back to the present, where they're converted into the Toclafane and unleashed on their own ancestors.

Oh, yeah, and that's why the Toclafane were wibbling on about the darkness coming to get them: all the stars are going out in the year umpteen-trillion. The universe is ending.

I think the orbs are those spherical robots from Terrahawks. Well, why not? Cloud base was in the last episode.

Hipster Dad, thanks for the ubergeekery. I never knew that.

Heh, Zeroids!
I did consider posting something to that effect myself, Ratty, but I figured three posts in quick succession was a step too far :D

"he drumming in his head is the sound of something (or someones) trying to get out?"

If the orbs are something to do with the Timelords maybe the drumming represents the Timelord  heartbeats.
Two hearts beating slightly out of time with each other could produce four beats like the drumming.

he's actually getting younger. McCoy was cited as around a thousand years.

thats aid i have enjoyed this latest series the moust out of new who. this might mean i hated rose.

it also means i hate capital letters and checking my spelling.

just wonering when the Doctor turned in to Macgyver?

Zeroids! Thats the fellows. Prefered the square ones, myself.

The drumming in his head is the sound of something (or someones) trying to get out?"

If the orbs are something to do with the Timelords maybe the drumming represents the Timelord heartbeats.
Two hearts beating slightly out of time with each other could produce four beats like the drumming.


I noticed the beat corresponds to the rhythm in the theme tune... (although that's probably pretty obvious...

"Dududud-duh, dududud-duh, dududud-duh, dududud-duh.
Weeeooooooooh..... etc etc"

Anyway, answers should be in the show tomorrow. Or rather tonight... seeing as I'm writing this at 2.49am.

I think it was the best  episode 12 of the new series so far. Compared to the first series when you have a large section devoted to BB, the Weakest link and those two clotheshorse women, he's finally learned to keep celeb bollocks to an absolute  minimum, and Freema & her family are a lot less irritating than Rose & her ma. Not too sure about Simm, but the script insists he chews much scenery. I keep thinking how similar would Simon Pegg be in the role.

The orbs being humans from "Utopia" seems best theory.  If RTD is bringing back the Time Lords though this is a good opportunity.  Maybe the Master has cloned himself - he calls them "kids" but that could just be a turn of phrase. Or maybe Utopia was a Gallifreyan prison for wayward Time Lords, which with his help escaped the Time war...

 I've been avoiding big spoilers but have heard the rumours and the counter-rumours.  Anyway less than an hour to find out...

THE FACE OF HARKNESS!!!


'KIN AWESOME