2000 AD Online Forum

...begins on Monday 9:00 on BBC4.

There's loads of stuff already on the web site including interviews with Leo Baxendale and Alan Moore - I was chuffed to see in the Moore interview that he's actually wearing an otherwise unavailable 'Weeping Gorilla' (from Promethea) T-shirt I had printed up and gave to him at an event/signing (to my surprise, he almost leaped in the air with glee when I showed it to him).

Link: Comics Britannia

Oh - that's a shame - the Moore video requires RealPlayer.  

Damn.

I'll have a biscuit to cheer myself up.

There was a teaser segment for this on Radio 5 with Simon Mayo the other day.  Not bad, but the guy from Viz got on me tits a bit.  I understand where he's coming from, but he was damning of comic readers and thinks that every one is a fat, nerd with the skin colour of a peeled potato (hang on, he could have a point...)

From their quiz -

Question 2
Which of the following characters from Victorian fiction doesn't appear in Alan Moore's League of Extraordinary Gentlemen?
- Sherlock Holmes
- The Invisible Man
- Dr Jekyll

I thought "Ooo, tricky!  Obviously they're trying to catch you out!  Because copyright law meant Moore wasn't allowed The Invisible Man, so he just had "a" invisible man. Sneaky bastards!"

But apparently the "correct" answer is Sherlock Holmes.  So they're just wrong.

Disappointing, really.

  Try the are you a superhero/villain personality test.Its rubbish.


 "do you have an underground lair under a volcano ? "

Another tie-in item on Robert Elms' show on BBC London on Tuesday, had someone I should probably know talking very informatively about British comics.

Link: Listen Back

"I was chuffed to see in the Moore interview that he's actually wearing an otherwise unavailable 'Weeping Gorilla' (from Promethea) T-shirt I had printed up and gave to him at an event/signing (to my surprise, he almost leaped in the air with glee when I showed it to him)."

Excellent!

Watched a lot of the 2000ad related stuff on the BBC website, couldn't help but notice that Pat Mills believes most readers think The Blood Of Satanis (sp?) actually like it.

He obviously hasn't been visiting the board recently!

Pat and others might argue the board isn't most readers.  It's a much safer bet to place your trust in those honest, intelligent, savvy, switched on, normal, decent, sexy, sane and *silent* readers who clearly have more taste and the good sense to shut up and bask in your geni-arse.

I think Blood of Satanus is pretty bad, but I still think Pat Mills is pretty great.  If Blood of Satanus ran for another 3 books (I'm guessing it probably won't), I'd still like Pat Mills' other stuff.

Given enough time (or rope) eventually everyone produces a duffer.  It may have been written with the same skill, enthusiasm and commitment as any other strip.  The writer may love it as if it were their own child, but you can't control what people think.  You can attempt to try and shape the public perception of the strip to your own ends, but it's a futile battle and much more negative than just getting on with the next strip.

Anyway, Mills comments aside (and there is seemingly nowhere they can't strike), I can't wait for Comics Britannia.  Enjoyed the Moore bit on the BBC site about V for vendetta.

"thinks that every one is a fat, nerd with the skin colour of a peeled potato"

Presumably that was Simon Donald, the skinny  nerd with the skin colour of a peeled potato and current editor and not his brother Chris Donald who is the fat nerd with the skin colour of a peeled potato, the former editor.

Love the Viz guys, and the Viz story, read the book, seen their talks a couple of times.  

Mind you, watching the second one I felt they already weren't as funny as they used to be during their first talk.  At current rates of humour depletion, it's predicted they will have ceased to be entirely funny around 2064.

Ah now, the original Blood of Satanus (progs 152-154) is really good.  Maybe he's talking about that.  

'Course, even if it was "the" Invisible Man (Jack Griffin?), he doesn't really 'appear' in LoEG when he is the Invisible Man, does  he?  It's more the Visible Coat and Hat that appears.  We're not talking Sue "dotted line" Storm here.

 What a hypocrite.Viz geezer says comic readers are fat nerds with the skin colour of a peeled potatoe?Thats the funniest thing i have heard for ages.Then the pot called the kettle black.He gets on my tits as well.big time.

  Its comic readers what pay his wages.What a twat.

Just to be pedantic (what? on an internet message board?), it is "The" Invisible Man in the book, but "an" invisible man in the rubbish film. And Sherlock Holmes, although alluded to, doesn't appear in the book.

Yes he does.  The whole fight at the Reichenbach Falls is shown.

Oh God, Pete - did you compile the questions?

Oh God, Pete - did you compile the questions?

Nuffink to do with me, Dud.
I'd forgotten about the Reichenbach thing, ages since I read it. That makes you King Pedant, I guess ;)

What do we think of Alan's comments in that clips about anarchy? Although he describes it as a 'romance', he does seem to suggest we should dispose of all leadership and government aside from a basic administration. Does he really find it conceivable that mankind could ever do this without things turning sour immediately, the most greedy and insane rising to the top? Surely the point of (elected) government that everyone does have a say in our destiny without some bastard deciding it's their destiny to screw you over and kill your family? Of course we wouldn't like Alan as much if he wasn't slightly mad and provocative...

::"Surely the point of (elected) government that everyone does have a say in our destiny"

Hahahahahahahahahaha!

Oh, wait - were you being serious?

Moore does seem to be saying that the problem with the world is caused by Leaders, and what we need are more 6 billion more Leaders!

I do think the problem is that if you have everyone being their own leader, you'll find most people would rather someone else did the job.  Groups of people with similar outlooks and beliefs would inevitably form so as to have the power to actually do something.  Its OK me being my leader, but me by myself cant provide running water and electricity and food for my family - my Leadership would be a pretty ineffective one! I'd have to join up with others, and they would have their own agendas, and at best youd get a form of democracy and at worst you'd get civil war!

Isnt "market forces" the nearest you can get to Anarchy that could provide for my needs, and I dont think Moore would be advocating that as a way to go!

That's what I was thinking - "Everyone should be masters of their own destiny" sounds a bit close to "There's no such thing as society"

"But apparently the "correct" answer is Sherlock Holmes. So they're just wrong.

Disappointing, really."

So, in M(oriarty)'s flash back he is thrown off a water fall by not water fall by another Sherlock Holmes?

Hi James,

Thank you for emailing us. While Sherlock Holmes does not actively take
part in the story, he does appear in a wonderful flashback sequence set
at Reichenbach in issue 5.

So we have changed the quiz entry to read...

Which of the following characters from Victorian fiction isn't a member
of Alan Moore's League of Extraordinary Gentlemen?

Thank you very much for writing in and helping us to refine our
questions. We hope you enjoy the Comics Britannia season.

Best wishes,

The BBC Four web team

I wonder if Holmes was a member of one of the earlier incarnations of the League?

To be nothing less than overwhelmingly pedantic, Moore's Invisible Man is one "Hawley" Griffin (first name invented by Moore, named after Dr. Crippen), while Wells' man is just Griffin, and the original movie version is "Jack" Griffin.  I've no problem with LXG's use of "an" invisible man, IIRC the epilogue of the novel has Griffin's notebooks in the possession of a pub landlord, which is known to Dr. Kemp (the 'hero'), so reproducing the experiment shouldn't be a problem.

Also, Griffin introduces himself in the book thus:  â??â??Iâ??m an Invisible Man.â?

  The problem with "elected government" is their total lack of accountability to the people once elected.

  This is the root of the problem with "democracy" in the UK.

  Anyone else who is employed or an employer is accountable to someone or other.Governments think they are above this and forget they are servants of the people that have elected them.Give them an inch and they will always always take a mile.

  Blair / Iraq is a perfect example of this.

Aha, an opportunity for me to yet-again recommend my Favourite SF Novel:  Le Guin's The Dispossessed.  Read it ad marvel at how a human society can plausibly be an anarchy and still function just fine, and then be amazed at how life there can still be shit.  There just isn't a better exploration of the subject of anarchy, and I won't even qualify that that with an IMHO.  

Congratulations [insert name]Dudley[/insert name].

You have earnt yourself the coveted...



;)

Whaaa?  Dudley was Scrotjo all along?!? In that hat he's a dead ringer for him.  It's the Dead Man all over again...

"Moore's Invisible Man is one "Hawley" Griffin (first name invented by Moore, named after Dr. Crippen), while Wells' man is just Griffin, and the original movie version is "Jack" Griffin."

I don't get it - why does everyone who steals the formular call themselves Griffin, or is it just a massive coincidence?

'The problem with "elected government" is their total lack of accountability to the people once elected.'

Taking away the Iraq prism for a moment, any government is accountable to the population at the next election. What doesn't happen is the government doing whatever people say they want in opinion polls or protests. Sometimes they pick another party, sometimes they pick the same, if anyone doesn't like it they can stand themselves. Getting rid of a government is far simpler than sacking an employee. Why the speech marks round "elected government"?

  Yes thats quite right. "At" the next election you say.Only in the sense that they may make promises,make fake promises,lie,sometimes they dont but not often.Theres no mention of what happens afterwards.

 What happens after is they do what they like for the next 4 or 5 years.Then theres another election,someone gets elected,then they do what they like for the next 4 or 5 years.Then .......

  I think it might be kinder to leave this subject alone for now really.



  .

That doesn't explain why most governments stay in power for more than one term.

I don't get it - why does everyone who steals the formula call themselves Griffin, or is it just a massive coincidence?

Answer - it's the same person. It's just that Wells never gave him a first name, so in the different later interpretations (the films of the book, LOEG) people have seen fit to give him different first names. The first film called him Jack, Moore called him Hawley - but it's still the same Griffin that Wells wrote about.

  In  our own time frame it has been like this so far in the uk.

   First of all there was the Wilson labour party in power.What a sham they were.Wilson was a traitor who in the end had to stay on the isles of Scilly otherwise he would more than likely have been assasinated.After Wilson you had Callaghan.Not really any better.I just about remember the Winter of Discontent.


 Then we have Thatcher in 79 .We all know about that so there is no need to expand upon it.Then Major.More of the same only more sort of grey.

 By that time everyone was fed up and along comes New Labour and Tony Blair mp.[i am tory plan b ].
The Blair government was a sham .No need to expand upon that either.
 
 How do they get re-elected ? Someone votes for them and first past the post gets in.Then its do what you like time again.

  For example: You or i dont want to replace Trident missiles? Tough shit.You are having them wether you like it or not.


 Who voted for a government that was going to collect and store 5 million dna samples on a database ?  No one as far as i know.

 Who voted for war in Iraq ? no one. The government goes to war.There is nothing you can do about it.[except protest of course !! ]

Who had a say in all the legislation passed since Sept 11th ? No one did except the government.


   I think i am making my point clearly.


   

     
 

Charlie Brooker review in today's Grauniad. I didn't know he did stuff for Oink.

Link: Screen Burn

From Heroes & Monsters (the unofficial companion to LOEG):

"Moore has stated in interviews that he gave Griffin the first name of Hawley as a reference to the murderer Dr. Hawley Crippen, who poisoned his wife in 1910..."

(And, as stated by DJ - it is THE Griffin from Wells' The Invisible Man.)

"How do they get re-elected ? Someone votes for them and first past the post gets in."

Which is undemocratic because...?

Wikipedia:

"The filmmakers were unable to obtain the rights to H. G. Wells' original Invisible Man character so they created a new version of him known as Rodney Skinner, a thief blessed with the lightest of fingers, the most cunning of minds and a talent for trouble, who has stolen the invisibility formula from the original Invisible Man, Griffin (in the graphic novel, it is explained that the Invisible Man killed at the end of The Invisible Man was actually a half-wit albino that Griffin made invisible as a guinea pig)."

...suggesting that the Moore's Invisible Man named his guniea pig after him, or named himself after him for some reason.

We are fine up to this point but its afterwards that the problems start.The way i see it is like this.Low turnouts at elections are NOT because of voter apathy.Or maybe they are partly but the fact is people dont feel that they have a say in what happens and certainly dont feel they are listened to.Because of this problem  the electorate dont see any point in voting anymore.People in this country are not that interested in politics at the best of times so to encourage them i would involve them in politics a lot more than simply crossing a bit of paper every 5 years.If they are not interested then fair enough.Its their choice,but there are an awful lot who are interested so we would like more of a say in things.This is common in more enlightened european countries for example.

  A first past the post winner in an election that is not  representative of the electorate as whole.Also i would like the option of a No Vote as well.If i dont want to vote for either conservatives or New or Old Labour or whatever they call themselves now then a no vote is a clear vote of No Confidence in either party.

 The winning party is voted in by the voters.This should mean that they should and will live up to the voters expectations and the promises that were made to them should be fulfilled to *the* letter.

 Its shouldnt be about voting for a party that is given Carte blanche to do exactly what the hell it likes once elected with no comebacks.


 Politicians should be much more closely monitored  while at work.Performance related pay might not be a bad idea plus less free drinks and lunches.Plus a timesheet or some sort of incentive to make them attend the house of commons a bit more often.


 By the way the practice of "paperclipping" legislation and then running it by the house of commons when it is mostly empty is not Democratic either.Were those articles of legislation properly debated by a full house of commons? No they werent. This is an abuse of the Democratic system in this country.


  I take it you have a career of some sort and work.I do.If i dont do what i say i am going to do or do a very bad job of it then i dont expect to be paid for it.I cant be sacked as i am freelance but it is just the same if you are employed.If you fuck up or dont show up for work constantly,or whatever then the rules of the workplace are usually 3 strikes then you are out.

 I dont see why politicians are any different.They work for and are paid for by the electorate.Its about time they started acting like it.

  The way i see it is at the moment the majority of the Labour cabinet are unfit to run this country.People who are obsessed with controlling what everyone else does are usually incapable of controlling themselves given the free rein they have at present.

  This is leaving out the debacle that is the House of LOrds or rather what the House of Lords has become in the last few years.They[labour werent exactly held accountable for that either.Everyone knows they were lying.A house of Lords that is full of Curry kings etc who have greased the palms of the labour party is not democracy.Enquiries that are conducted by the establishment that dont reach a satisfactory conclusion that being a guilty rather than a not guilty scenario are not good for democracy either.


      Peter.

According to today's Daily Mirror TV Guide magazine, annoying titled "We Love Telly!", 2000ad is an "X-rated comic", "like Viz".

That speaks volumes about the current swearing policy I feel, and made me very, very sad.

Steev

REMINDER

First shows on tonight on BBC 4 9pm

If anyone *does* happen to miss it, it's repeated about 3 or 4 times during the week. Check your telly book.

"That speaks volumes about the current swearing policy I feel, and made me very, very sad."

...or it could just be lazy journalism. It's not as if it's on the top shelf (like Viz) or was an 'adults only' warning on the front (or even has many non-made-up expletives in it).

It's not as if it's on the top shelf

You'd be surprised, actually. I've seen it a few WHSmiths sandwiched between Viz and Gay Times.

  The Daily Mirror !!??!!    Lazy Journalism ?   Thats one way of describing the Daily Mirror .There are many others too.They string sentences together but not much else.

  The Daily Mirror shouldnt be on any shelf.


  I hadnt noticed any swearing myself in 2000ad.

  Prog 1553 fully scanned.Definatly no swearing in there.And its not like i dont know my swearing either.

   Just what the Hell are the Daily Mirror talking about?


   What you need is for the Daily Mirror to be given a  Retards rating.


 Rebellion need to have a word with the shelf stackers as well.Luckily my branch stacks the comics next to the other comics.Well done to them.Give them a Banana.If its not there i dont automatically assume it is in the *gay* section.Its not the first place i would look or a place i would ever go exploring .

   2000ad has been in the same place in the same section on the same shelf for 3 or 4 weeks now.


   Are they finally learning something?


   Rant over for now ..................

"Rant over for now .................."

Just in time for the show, Peter!

Stuck in work. Will have to catch up online (if possible??)

 I have the same problem.There are problems with the set top box remote.It wont accept the tv.There is a teccy from virgin calling round thursday so until then no comics Brittania here. I think there are repeats so its not a problem.

Ump: Here are the times according to my telly book that it's being repeated (up until Friday, anyway). All are on BBC4.

Tonight: 2.50am

Wednesday: 11.30pm & 2.25am

Friday: 11.00pm & 3.20am

Yeah, I enjoyed that.  Nice to see Gravett, Baxendale, O'Neill and Roach on there.

Dissapointed that they didn't quite put together all of their points to lead to the ultimate conclusion.

That great comics are the work of great individuals, not name brands, marketing and trademarked properties.

And when comics are challenged by other forms of entertainment, if they are just churning out product, and there's no genius in there, they've had it.

Comics treated the people that made them very badly, and they paid the price.  Look at the Beano and Dandy coasting along leaching off the success of fifty-seventy year old strips.  That's not any measure of fitness.

I was really surprised to see how exciting Dennis the Menace (I hate Dennis the Menace) really was when it started.  And just how cynically produced those IPC humour titles of the seventies were.  Though Pat Mills once said the same thing.

Anyway, roll on the next one.

"When I read about Dandy Xtreme, I feel like Victor Meldrew, sighing while a robot prepares his dinner."  Charlie Brooker

Yeah...

"I hadnt noticed any swearing myself in 2000ad."

There was a shit in this weeks prog, but that may be down to Grandpa.

I quite enjoyed the show, seemed a bit padded for an hour and the current state of play was barely addressed. I never knew that Wizzer & Chips was always one comic, I thought it was like Eagle & Tiger or 2000ad&Tornado. I can rest easy now.

I expect they'll go into the current state of the industry in next week, or maybe the last episode. always end on a low note eh?


Dudley Watkins, Ken Reid and Leo Baxendale were something else. What a workload!

Comic artists these days don't know they're born

I missed most of it but sure i saw a comic strip that i have read, how freaky, to think, shelves of comics for kids, oh, how times change !

Cheers Wils, 11:30 Wednesday sounds about the only time I'll get to see it.

Well, there was plenty of good things about this programme. I think it accurately summed up what was great about the comics I was brought up on, and will hopefully bring some much deserved recognition to some of our unsung comic heroes.

HOWEVER! I think they took a few too many shortcuts in the narrative. It was implied no one that came after Watkins, Law, Reid & Baxendale was any good, which I don't think is true at all. And the dismissal of every IPC comic as a lame corporate knockoff was also slightly unfair(some good material was produced for these comics, such as Reid's "Faceache"). I was also disappointed they pretty much skimmed over the state of humour comics as they are now, especially considering the Dandy's recent ill-advised relaunch.

And they didn't even mention Calamity James! Tsk.

Interesting fact which I'm surprised wasn't mentioned - apparently Dudley D. Watkins literally worked until he dropped. He was found one morning collapsed on his desk, having passed away mid-job. Now that's dedication!

++Look at the Beano and Dandy coasting along leaching off the success of fifty-seventy year old strips. That's not any measure of fitness.++

That could equally apply to 2000ad.

::"That could equally apply to 2000ad."

Reading TPO just now, I think it certainly did apply to 2000AD in the lamentable McKoonzie/Myllar/Flooscher years.

The Burton/Mackenzie years actually introduced far more new series than previous eras in 2000 AD's history. The early 80s period many call the comic's golden age is notable for the stability of its line-up, with Dredd, Stront and Rogue in nearly every week, accompanied by long runs of other strips. [When was the last time a strip ran for 52 consecutive issues, like Meltdown Man?]

One of the big challenges faces by Burt and Mackenzie was the switch to full colour, as it became impossible for artists to produce an episode a week. You can debate the quality of the new strips they introduced, but it's not fair to accuse that editorial team of failing to try new things.

Dredd's been the backbone of 2000 AD for 30 years, just as Dennis the Menace has been for the Beano, but I'd like to believe other strips have done their bit, such as Nikolai Dante, Sinister Dexter, Caballistics Inc., etc

Faskinating programme - I really loved the Beano (and to a lesser extent the Dandy) as a nipper, and the insight into their creators and internal politicking was appreciated.  

The focus on racism was, for once, thoughtful and accepting of the fact that these were attitudes that pervaded all media at the time, not that comics were somehow spearheading a junior race-hate movement.  In my day, Little Plum seemed to be the last bastion of racially-motivated humour, and I always found it um crashing bore.  Homophobia, class-war and child-battery still abounded, and I loved it all.

I thought the parallels (not drawn) between MC-1 and Cactusville were interesting - both supposed to be in America, but very obviously British in content and character.  

Also good to finally see the Man at the Crossroads, after so many years of reading/about him.

I thought the Nazi propaganda stuff was fascinating and was amazed that I'd not seen anything about it before.

And as for Steve Bell... did he not come across as one of those people who talks to himself in the park? Was he genuinely laughing at Little Plum as he described what was going on?

I thought having the Talking Heads read/describe events in a strip really didn't work. Comics are an internal, personal medium and wouldn't work on Jackanory.

Things I didn't think worked were the talking heads superimposed on the strips. I'd have prefered to have seen a technique used in a film called Comic Book Confidential which filled the screen with each panel so you could in fact follow the narrative. The panels from Watchmen in this looked amazing.  

Link: Comic Book Confidential

We enjoyed this programme in our house, too. Felt it was a bit of a pity that the IPC humour comics were given such short shrift, as these were a familiar sight to me when I was a kid, and I enjoyed reading the adventures of Frankie Stein, FaceAche, Jasper the Grasper, Sweeny Toddler, Sid's Snake, Oddball, 'Orrible 'Ole, and Fiends and Neighbours in annuals borrowed from friends. They were a lot more contemporary than the Topper, Beano and Beezer comics and annuals that were bought for me.

I too was perplexed by the DC Thompson characters' delight at large bowlfuls of tomato soup, fish and chip suppers and plates of bangers and mash, so I was glad to have it explained to me by Kevin O'Neill in Comics Britannia.

I wish it could have had another half an hour to cover recent developments, like redesigning Dennis the Menace in a shell suit and headphones, the ghastly makeover of The Dandy, and the translation of Dennis into a TV cartoon. Just to show how diluted everything has become, and to make the connection with what today's kids have become accustomed to seeing.

"like redesigning Dennis the Menace in a shell suit and headphones"


< icy monotone > what? < /icy monotone >

Don't worry - it didn't last long. It was another "Death of Superman" style marketing ploy.
The redesign was touted long before it happened. Cue  predictable media rumpus. It even made the 10 O'Clock News.
As it happened, Dennis started the strip in his flashy new "modern" outfit, which ended up getting torn to shreds during his misadventures. By the end of that week's episode, he was back to his familiar stripey jumper & black shorts ensemble.

I thought it was an excellent programme - it neither dwelled excessively or skimped on anything.

Looking at some of the work was great - some absolute geniuses worked on them there funny papers.

I,for some reason,found it strange looking at Kev O'Neil talking about the 'fun factory' whilst constantly thinking "this man drew Nemesis the Warlock".I mean that in a good way, mind.What I mean is,I never considered what comics the creators grew up reading - stupid really.I bet Kev would draw a great pile of mash with sausages stuck in it.

Looking forward to the next one.

M.

If you have Virgin Cable you can watch this episode on the TV On Demand bit anytime you like over the next 7 days.

P.S. This bit of the On Demand is free.

Enjoy!

You're right - they did introduce a lot of new strips.  I was thinking more of the terminal case of neverending Robo-Hunter.  On reflection - that was more the exception than the rule.

Faskinating programme - I really loved the Beano (and to a lesser extent the Dandy) as a nipper, and the insight into their creators and internal politicking was appreciated.  

The focus on racism was, for once, thoughtful and accepting of the fact that these were attitudes that pervaded all media at the time, not that comics were somehow spearheading a junior race-hate movement.  In my day, Little Plum seemed to be the last bastion of racially-motivated humour, and I always found it um crashing bore.  Homophobia, class-war and child-battery still abounded, and I loved it all.

I thought the parallels (not drawn) between MC-1 and Cactusville were interesting - both supposed to be in America, but very obviously British in content and character.  

Also good to finally see the Man at the Crossroads, after so many years of reading/about him.

De Ja Vu

WTF happened there?  It appears I'm now posting from five minutes into your future, only more like 3 hours and with less monkey-house shoot-outs.

"And the dismissal of every IPC comic as a lame corporate knockoff was also slightly unfair(some good material was produced for these comics, such as Reid's "Faceache")."

Agreed, I read Whizzer & Chips as a kid and it had some very inventive strips while I found even then the Beano and Dandy to be hopelessly outdated. For all it's genius, Roger The Dodger, Minnie The Minx and Dennis The Menace were pretty much the same strip - overly energetic kid getting into trouble.  

Thought that was good fun, looking forward to the rest.

Bolt-01

I can't claim to have found the Beano and Dandy outdated - I was a young kid - they were just the Beano and Dandy - but I don't recall having a favourite - and am sure I'd be just as happy with Whizzer and Chips.  I certainly do remember Faceache, as much as I remember Dennis the Menace.

Anyway, by the time I gave a shit about what I was reading, it was Victor, or Hotspur, alongside Commando and Starblazer.  (I missed out on the whole Battle thing.)

Then along came 2000AD and everything else was quickly forgotten about.

just to go back to something mentioned two pages ago about 2000ad being mentioned as "an x rated comic"

thats the name of the third and final part of this series which spookily enough is when tooth appears in the series.

notice a few familiar faces voting for 2oooad characters including myself

heh

Link: dredd and alpha rule!

Watched and enjoyed this last night (in between the odd doze, it's been a hectic week in work!!).

Looking forward to the rest of the series.

Any chance of the series getting a BBC DVD release??

 I watched this earlier.Having never read any of these comics it was a good insight into them and what i maybe missed out on.

   I have a bit of a vague recollection as i post that i did read the Beano for a short while and now i remember Gnasher who was a canine version of dennis the menace.i also remember joining the Dennis the Menace fan club as well.I cant quite remember exactly what you got for joining .a certificate ,some badges,and a plastic Gnasher the Dog or something plastic that smelt funny is all i can think of.

 I never quite realised how anti authoritarian some of the strips were as i never analysed them too much at the time although creating havoc in the classroom etc i can relate to .A real throwback to the days of corporate punishment etc.Dennis the Menace was a bit of a hero really.


  Minnie the Minx must have been the first strong female comic character.

I watched 'Tintin and Me' - as a big Tintin fan I can't help but feel they really read too much into Herge...it's interesting what happened when his friend Chang made him more politicised affecting the way the strip was created, and his inclusion as a character was quite touching, but otherwise the real success of the strip was that he was just very good at writing and drawing an adventure comic. Most of the things that happened in his life was pretty normal; like everyone else he was forced to adjust to occupation, he had a marriage breakdown and suffered stress and depression from over-work, pretty common really. He didn't seem like an unusually obsessive, elusive or complicated man. Interestingly, the film never really concentrated on the stories and characters very much and didn't aim to introduce newcomers to the strip, concentrating more on the man, though I can't help but feel that really it is those things and the raw creativity Herge put in that is the reason for the strip's success. What might have been more interesting would have been something that covered the parallels to real political events over the period the books were created, which might have said more about Herge's motivations.

I watched Tintin and me too.
I thought there were some really interesting facts sprinkled throughout (such as the fact that out of the whole series of books he was only ever really satisfied with 2 panels), but it was presented in a very dry and quite boring way. It was a bit depressing to be honest.

"Most of the things that happened in his life was pretty normal; like everyone else he was forced to adjust to occupation, he had a marriage breakdown and suffered stress and depression from over-work, pretty common really. "

Ade - this prompted a wry smile.

Normal and Common? - I'm not planning on being occupied, having a mariiage breakdown or suffering stress and depression.

Or have I missed your point entirely.

**** There was a Jonathan Woss on Ditko bit in yesterdays Grauniad. Apparently a programme on BBC4 this weekend. ****

The BBC have chosen not not include my entry to Have Your Say. This may be down to the fact that I put forward Axel Pressbutton and used the word 'climax'.


The Woss Ditko thing is on Sunday night at 9 o'clock on BBC4, followed by [hwwwwwwwwwk! ptoo!] My Name is Modesty.

I'm glad you lot picked up on the Comics Britannia thing.

I caught the Beano stuff the other night.How many have I missed?

"I'm not planning on being occupied, having a mariiage breakdown or suffering stress and depression."

Well everyone in Belgium at the time had to adjust to it so he was no different to anyone else then and there, and 42.6% of marriages end in divorce (44% in Belgium, source: Wikipedia). I'm sure there would similar statistics for the number of people who will suffer some kind of stress or depression at some point in their three score years and ten (whether they plan for it or not), so I'm suggesting that it's not necessarily very significant when assessing who Herge was and what influenced the strip. The strips certainly don't seem very dour and are generally very funny and optomistic in their outlook.

Some unconvincing stuff about comics not dying out, just changing their format.

Link: BBC Magazine Article

::"Best of all, unlike their monochrome predecessors, most of today's new strips are in colour."

Yes, because colour is a measure of quality.  Erm...

Anyone watch the Steve Ditko show last night?

It was very good and as much as I'd like if Jonathan had succeeded in meeting him on camera (oops spoiler)it's kind of fitting that he didn't.

I never realised what a loon he was.. then I read Mr A.

The stuff I like best was the Horror and SciFi stuff I first saw in the Alan Class collected 'Tales of the Uncanny' and stuff. He was one of the first artists whose work I recognised.
Unfortunately (for me) reprints of his stuff always seems to focus on Spiderman etc, or the early sci-fi adventures, instead of the darker, moodier stuff I prefer.
No-one drew a distressed gorilla like Steve Ditko, which is just as well as I can recall a good few stories that involved gorillas; Gorillas with human brain transplants, men being turned into gorillas,(must've been the style at the time)

Fair play to BB4 for this series. Looking forward to tonights installment.

Although it's not how you would draw a comic today it did show how much they were all gripped by the character when they described how exciting the pages were when Spiderman was trying to lift the machinery he was crushed under; It just looked to me like a lot of very similar panels over a few pages as Spiderman talks to himself - was there ever any chance he was not going to escape? That kind of thing doesn't quite translate across to those that weren't reading it back then, so it's good they had the readers putting their enthusiasm across.

Enjoyed the second part much more, adventure comics, that's more my thing.  A nice piece on Charley's War, hoped for more on Misty.

...although I'd rather see those panels dialogued by Ditko rather than Stan. You could cut about half of the "must strain, nnngh" balloons and still keep all the drama.

Although I suppose Ditko wasn't known for underegging the pudding either. "A IS A! A large piece of machinery either is too heavy or perfectly liftable, there is nothing in between etc."

 I watched this weeks show .Lots of stuff about girls comics , very little about war comics in general ,although there was a focus on charleys war in particular,a short bit on commando comic ,quite a lot on Roy of the Rovers.Very little of it i was particularly interested in.

 The part about eagle comic was quite interesting and i never knew it was dreamt up by a hard drinking bonking vicar although i liked the sound of him so that was a bit of a revelation.



 all the while i was watching , i was slowly getting more and more disatisfied as there was no mention of 2000ad and action comic until the end when i breathed a sigh of relief when i realised that next weeks show is going to feature 2000ad etc.

  Prog 225 floated across the screen at one point at the end.


  The more darker age of the "comic anti hero" is next weeks theme now all the boring stuff is out of the way.

I meant to gasp at Adrian's obvious heresy there but unfortunately the web swallowed it.

Never mind - enjoy this lost 'Dit Vetko' classic.

Enjoyed this week's a lot more than the previous one. If anyone is planning a Collected Slaves of War Orphan Farm I can guarantee you'll sell at least one copy!

I remember asking my dad about this a few years ago and he informed me that Eagle was primarily read by little swots and kids who were made to go to Boys Brigade. Is this true?

And I have absolutely no idea what that cartoon's supposed to be about.

From looking at next weeks TV guide the final episode is on at 22:30.
I presume there must be a lot of Drokk's and Stomm's in it!

Good episode, though I also was a bit disappointed that it skimmed past Misty, a few tantalising images that the narrative didn't address at all.

Good coverage of Charleys War and discussion about girls comics at the time. I assume the last episode will feature a lot more 2000ad?

They cut off Roy Races foot!!!????
What the hell!???

I absolutely loved the idea that Charley's War is a "girls' comic" story.  Prior to the analyses and histories of the past few years, I used to find it amusing that Wagner et al came up through the girls' comic market, but it increasingly makes sense in terms of the depth of character that those guys brought to ostensibly action stories in Tooth.  I used to love girls' comics when I could get them, the Four Marys being a particular favourite.  I had to laugh at "Belly of the Balette", which is precisely how I used to pronounce it, with no regard for the original Irish.  War Orphan Farm was a new one on me, but i want in!

In fact, everything that Alan and Pat had to say in that programme was fascinating.  However, is it just me or does Pat's accent change every time I hear him speak?

" maybe they revealed the feminine within us all..."

cut..quickly

Misty was a surprise absence for me too. Was it British?

I remember me sisters got an annual fer christmas and I read that before meyown 2000ad..

Each eraso far has something to throw yourself at (at my age). The series has some great moments like Kev O'Niell loving his Ken Reid (sp).

heh.

***In fact, everything that Alan and Pat had to say in that programme was fascinating. However, is it just me or does Pat's accent change every time I hear him speak?***


No, it's just you, but he does need his teeth cleaned.

for some reason i thought they would have included "darkies mob" unless theyre saving it for next week.

A very entertaining episode with an excellent ending about Charley's War.
I just wish there was more on that.
Still it's better to see a programme like this for a change.