2000 AD Online Forum

Thought I'd stick the Meg thread here so that both can be visible at the same time - it's where the traffic is at. Tempest cover and a one off Grennie Dredd. Not had much of a look but cover to follow unless someone steals in first. Jumbo sized six-pack Dreddlines with none of the usual suspects on show.

Sorry if this has been brought up before but I've just bought the new Strontium Dog collection and noticed the blurb on the back says it's the final collection. Now I know that the "Death of Johnny Alpha" storyline has been retconned out of continuity but does this mean that we'll never get the chance to read it again? Also the list of artists includes Colin Macneil and Kim Raymond but no mention is made of Simon Harrison who contributes the last arc, in fact the last panel reads "Coming soon - The Final Programme!"
I know I've got the storyline in the original progs but isn't the idea of a complete collected edition to ... I don't know, collect the entire series? Maybe it's just me but I'd like to know what the score is here. Thanks for listening.

Jumbo sized six-pack Dreddlines with none of the usual suspects on show.

Hurrah!

Cover as promised :



Not sure if you got one in Krombasher or whether you are just happy that others didn't. Full letter details on the 'Writing to Tharg 2008' thread in 'Suggestions.

COVER  OK but nothing great or memorable. I'm sure the floating readers would be intregued to see what Dredd is wearing now.

DREDD I quite liked this mainly due to Paul Marshall's excellent art. Some of the aliens look great and the whole thing is reminiscent of that Bolland Alien Zoo annual story. The detection angle was slight and I didn't buy the concept of the escaping baddie, but at least I know my hat won't look out of place in space!

INTERVIEWS The Alan Grant one is laugh a minute and I could live with his reminises being a permanent feature. The Al Ewing one is more perfunctory and basically just lists some stuff.

ARMITAGE Not sold on this yet but it's OK stuff. More Treasure than Armitage with not much action. The art quality seems to vary quite considerably page to page.

BLACK DOSSIER REVIEW I only read the first page as I got tired of reading endless references to other stuff I didn't know about. (I do know Adenoid Hynkel is Chaplin's character in 'The Great Dictator' though!).I know that shows up my own lack of reading compared to that of our own Byron, but I do think articles like this should be accessable and not an exercise in 'look how smart I am'.

TEMPEST Didn't like this at all. 4 page fight followed by some madcap banter.Ends with man with rats. I'll give it room to expand but for now it looks like the scraps of paper under Wagner's desk have been sellotaped together to arrive at something new. I also dislike the title being on the last page, as if to say ta-dah! when what we have digested is mediocre stuff at best.

Some good content but not quite enough. Still 50% as good as the Prog and that's being generous.

A Meg but no Prog. The world is weeping.

What a turnaround for the Meg!
Just a few months ago I was thinking of cancelling it, but now I found myself reading every word on the day it arrived.

Highlights:

Tempest is bonkers and beautiful;

The Rennie Dredd has a fantastic villain and great art;

The Alan Grant interview is fascinating.

The only drawback for me is the storytelling in Armitage seems a little clunky, and the strip is referencing stuff I have no memory of. But it's still perfectly readable.

Well done that Meg-Tharg!

- Trout

I'm with King Trout block - who are you fighting with?

With a a handful of relatively minor tweaks and a change of line-up, the Meg has gone from being a chore that I couldn't be bothered to read and was genuinely about to cancel, to an entertaining package that I'm pleased to see on my doormat once a month ...

As with the last issue, kudos to Mr Smith and the creators. Loving the Alan Grant interview as well.

Not too sure about Lo*cough*cough*cough*Asbo, but apart from that, a most welcome improvement!

Cheers

Jim

I absolutely devoured the Meg this month. Read it all in one sitting, apart from the letters.

Dredd was fine, although the 'erasing from history' baddy is stretching credibility a bit.

Armitage was about Steel, who frankly bores the socks off me. Really didn't buy the Defane dialogue. The pages which actually featured Armitage were entertaining.

Bob the Galactic Bum - good but not as funny as last month, but still quite a laugh. Lobo, sorry Asbo, is quite amusing.

Tempest - the extended fight scene could (should?) have been condensed to a single page. Tempest himself is intriguing. Why finish on a splash page again? Hope the whole story doesn't do this, it could quickly become irritating.

Interviews - entertaining. Grant doesn't hold back, does he?
I can sympathise with Buttonman's views on the Black Dossier review, but some of it is down to something being reviewed that is chock full of references. I did lose my thread a few times while reading it though.

In all, satisfactory Meg for £2.99.

Tell you what, those troggies have got some great washing powder haven't they?

I'm sorry to say that I think the art could be letting Tempest down, bit of a mis-match in my opinion. It is just a bit too clean and forgive the phrase, 'manga-esque' for the story (despite the judge having 'ninja' trappings.

Still I'll be reading it as I'm curious as to where it is going.

Armitage: Am I the only one to think that Cooper is drawing lots of panels at the same size and then compiling a page digitally? It would explain the odd line weight issues I'm having with it.

Bolt-01

Armitage: Am I the only one to think that Cooper is drawing lots of panels at the same size and then compiling a page digitally? It would explain the odd line weight issues I'm having with it.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what he's doing & I'm not sure it works that well. A number of panels seem stretched to fit with all the loss of quality you'd expect from that. Also interesting to note that he seems to be doing his own computer lettering for the signs etc. with some rather odd results (check out the squiffy perspective on the text in a few panels)

Enoyed the Meg - the highlight for me was DREDD. Agreed that Paul Marshall's art is most lovely - some great pics of perps being devoured.  I also liked the way GRENNIE has managed to add little touches of characterisation to the villains in their dialogue - it's not all just perfunctory plot moving stuff. "Good luck with that, Egg Head" made me laugh.  Not sure of the concept of the villain - isn't it a bit like an ULTRA JUDGE DEATH?

BOB THE GALACTIC BUM was also most enjoyable - I think someone says it in the PROG REVIEW thread that they long for Ezquerra doing black and white work again - this confirms it for me.

Not sure on ARMITAGE - I felt I had to work hard at what was going on; maybve I like the art but not the storytelling.  It probably doesn't help that, like Dante, I haven't a fucking clue who anyone really is.  I can't even remeber what Armitage is meant to be like as a character (is he just a grumpy and grizzled detective judge?).

TEMPEST seems throwaway fluff but none the less enjoyable for that.

I was chuckling throughout the Alan Grant interview; I've heard him voice these opinions before and I think I absolutely agree with his downer on "the Batman family".

I actually enjoyed the Al Ewing thing in the bits where it was an interview (googling yourself; ego-surfing - I've done that - I only ever come up on this website).

Film Reviews - read but forgotten.

It's nice to see the Meg hitting form again after a few duff months but I do miss the small press strips. Anyone know if they are gone for good?

It's nice to see the Meg hitting form again after a few duff months but I do miss the small press strips. Anyone know if they are gone for good?

Anyone know if they are gone for good?

Hopefully.

The first thing I read in this was the Grant interview and will do the same next month. Fully enjoyable read.

The Dredd was a top read but is this another Grennie loose thread left dangling. Whats the count now?

The psycho, loopy, not all there Tempest has got plenty of potential.

Still unsure of Armitage.

Can anyone throw up the Lobo page as I never saw the original Please.





V

Prickly Conscience Dept:

There was a version of the interview that I re-wrote to make myself look a bit less like a wanker (in a bit of shamelessly Stalinesque historical revisionism). That little bit of Orwellian memory-hole action was headed off at the pass, but I will say that at the time of the drunken Q&A session in question I didn't give nearly enough credit to brilliant artists such as Richard Elson, Rufus Dayglo, Dom Reardon and now PJ Holden (to name but a small few of the many), without whom I'd just be a chancer deservedly left on the slush pile. I sincerely apologise to them and also to John Smith, who doesn't get nearly enough credit in that piece for the consideration and kindness he showed me when I started out, which I can frankly never repay.

Also, I'm really sorry about all the bits where I sound like a massive, unrepentant prick - it's probably because I secretly am one.

So is the LOW LIFE coming out before the TANK GIRL?

I personally thought you came out as a normal human being, Al. You've got a couple of years to go before you're as crazy as Alan Grant.

Less, it seems. is more. Fewer strips means larger page counts for the strips and that makes all the difference. Loving the new style Meg.

I will say this though, with Low Life jumping to the Meg that makes less space for the characters that have appeared over the last few years. How about a few making the journey in the other direction. Bendatti Vendetta, Koburn, and especially Middenface are all much missed by me. Shimura was a spot on revival too, better than the original run.

Out of all of the Megazine characters that have been on vacation, I think I miss Middenface the most.

I'd like to see more of him and more Alan Grant strips in general.

Signed: Mrs Grant.

Bring back Paco Loco is I'll say.



"I'm sorry to say that I think the art could be letting Tempest down, bit of a mis-match in my opinion. It is just a bit too clean and forgive the phrase, 'manga-esque' for the story (despite the judge having 'ninja' trappings.
"

I'm looking into this deeply and see the villian looking exactly like my dad o n a bad day and Tempest as my dad on a good day. Only Bolt, that I think the art is great. Some of it really displays     ;Al Ewing
Tempest
My dad
Me

I love the dialogue and the bloody hand on the shoulder. Its done not too skittishly or graphically to lessen the enjoyment of said particular scene.

Laptop battery low, i'm afraid.

Like others I was about to cancel my sub to the Meg, but this month it has really picked up, although not to the standards that it has been at in the past. At least I actually bothered to read the whole thing this month.

Tempest looks like it could go somewhere interesting and amusing, or else plummet into endless manga fight scenes.

Koburn is also in urgent need of a revival.

I haven't had time to read the Meg yet, but having just read The Black Dossier, I was quite excited to see it reviewed inside, and I managed to read most of the review before catching my train. It seems a bit churlish to me to rebuke Ed for being clever, when that's what Alan Moore appears to want and expect in his readers.

I was wondering, Ed, if I detected the hand of an editor at work who has never come across either of the phrases 'dramatis personae' or 'central conceit', or if I've just got the wrong end of the stick?

Where are people getting their copies of The Black Dossier from?

It seems a bit churlish to me to rebuke Ed for being clever

If you follow that logic you might as well have Stephen Hawking compose a 64 page essay on quantum physics and publish it in the Meg. We could then all convene and pretend that by proxy we're clever too in an Emperor's new clothes style bout of mass delusion!

Take this bit "...Owes much to Jose Phillip Farmer's Wold Newton cycle (Amazon sales rank 189,640) and Kim Newman's Anno Dracula (Amazon sales rank 602,946) "

That could have been in Bulgarian and would have made the same amount of sense to me. I'm not getting at ED who clearly knows his stuff (I assume!) I am simply saying the piece was too reliant on obscure stuff, meaning it was a pointless read for me and I imagine many others who haven't completely devoured the racks of Forbidden Planet.

Two fairly famous works there amongst fans of the whole fictional-characters-and-history-cross-over genre, which would certainly be worth following up on if you've any interest in that kind of thing. Mentioning them in the article seems perfectly reasonable, and if you've not heard of them then, hey, you have an oportunity to learn something new.

Mentioning them in the article seems perfectly reasonable,

Yup, the Wold Newton thing is really the direct predecessor of the LoEG idea, and Kim Newman is a repeat offender in the fictional character mash-ups.  I quite agree with Buttonman in a general about overly clever material, but these are immediate forebears of the work being reviewed - it'd be like reviewing early 2000AD without mentioning Action or Eagle.

They both have a sad tendency not to be in print, so it;s worth scouring ebay for them.

I see that Art and Tordelback have already responded while I was putting the kettle on, but I'll chip in my two penn'orth anyway.

Your Stephen Hawking analogy is totally bogus.

What Ed wrote was not in any way gibberish, although your addition of Amazon sales ranks into the quote substantially detracted from its clarity. It confused me so much I had to check the Megazine article to discover th sales ranks weren't part of it, because the point you were making was entirely lost on me. Having read neither Newman nor Farmer, I have nevertheless heard of both authors and several titles by Kim Newman including the one mentioned.

All the quoted sentence says is that there is older fantasy fiction that has performed similar tricks to League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. From the article it may be inferred that Ed has read both, but equally he may be sharing an observation made elsewhere by someone else, not having read either (although I doubt it). That's not showing off, that's research.

Personally, when I'm reading I like occasionally to come across something I didn't know before, otherwise what's the point? As Art says, that's a learning opportunity.

I got Anno Dracula in my local library a few years ago, and liked it a lot.

Seek it out.

- Trout

Your Stephen Hawking analogy is totally bogus.

Heinous answer Dude!

Quantum physics is a theoretical science and therefore could be termed 'science-fiction' and merit a place in a magazine where 'being clever' is a definite requirement ahead of accessabilty and entertainment value.

The high numbered Amazon sales ranks were included to give weight to my contention that the works cited were obscure and indeed, as I now understand it, out of print.

To close I never suggested Ed's work was "gibberish" I merely said the constant references to stuff I hadn't read detracted from my enjoyment of the article.

"similar tricks to League of Extraordinary Gentlemen"

Surely we can track the first seeds of Moore's thoughts on LoEG to the introduction to the first collection of his Swamp Thing work, circa Nineteen Eighty *coughcoughcough* where, trying to explain the incongruous presence of the JLA and Etrigan the Demon in these stories, he very specifically cites the equivalent example of [1] "Hercule Poirot and Sherlock Holmes teaming up to track down Dr Frankenstein, who has kidnapped the protagonists of Little Women" ... IIRC, he actually says something like "the absurdities and charms of such an idea should be immediately obvious"

The very moment I learned of LoEG, I remembered these words.

Cheers

Jim

[1] This Swamp Thing collection is in a box - quotation is from memory and therefore inevitably inaccurate!

The fewer but longer stories made the Meg more absorbing. I didn't miss the small press but do miss the Dreddfiles.

Dredd lets the beast free with his retaliatory shot!

He's the guy who's let a load of grief loose on Mega City!

I am a bit worried about WiiERD, Anderson PsI by Boo Cook and Grant.

I do hope long convoluted landscapes of strips to enjoy stay in the Meg. (Is it too early in the year to ask if it's nearing a settled edit?)

Aimee Nixon's debut would benefit, Like Tempest enjoys both playful extended fight scenes balanced with additional story following the characters within the action. I like a good action story.


Bobs great though, it really is the high-flying-scifi-journey beyond the edges of star systems, told from a very pedestrian angle. Brilliantly funny and not a little tearfully reminiscent of an era where people went on classy, space-cruiser liners for some purpose or other.

Armitage is a riddle, slowly unraveling. The artworks not detracting its its either the writer or the artist who is giving it all a newspaper strip feel to it or a combination of the two. Again the lengh format is generous to me and story.

Because of this largeness of graphic novella, my feature reading is suffering due to the AMOUNT of fantastic art and story!

Kinda skim reading the lan Grant stuff for the first time today, hitting a few bold refs that stand out.

Al Ewing; I began the other day, the real meat is in what is happening with and about Tempest.I liked these bits. Again, I've just read 'em. I'm associated with his work  but not so I feel I accomplished a gratitude for his earlier stuff.
El Sombra is still something I'd like to read. It looks greatly unique a piece o' fiction as anything out there.

There's a nice Wizard of Oz reference in the FILuMs section. A nice balance of review and pictures, for my untrained eyes.

Not sure whether Fugitive Features is a sub-title with SPECIAL being a Tag title or what, but I am frothing at the prospect of July thank-you very much, you bastards.

If I could write as well as Ed B then I would be a very happy man.

Excellent article (in my opinion at least).

I'm not keen on LOEG and I don't read the articles in the Meg, so I'll never know what the fuss is about.

"Surely we can track the first seeds of Moore's thoughts on LoEG to the introduction to the first collection of his Swamp Thing work"

That quote from the initial Swamp Thing collection (published in 1987):

'For those more familiar with conventional literature, try to imagine Dr. Frankenstein kidnapping one of the protagonists of Little Women for his medical experiments, only to find himself subject to the scrutiny of a team-up between Sherlock Holmes and Hercule Poirot'

However, Philip José Farmer's Tarzan Alive does pre-date that by about 15 years, and Moore himself cited it as the principle inspiration (and it was also an obvious influence on Warren Ellis' Planetary and his notion of 'Century Babies'). The book's actually available to buy at the moment, though the sequel, Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life, is out of print. Kim Newman also admitted Farmer's influence on Anno Dracula, which shares the same setting and many of the same characters as the first volume of LoEG, but was published about seven years earlier. Anno Dracula and its follow-up, The Bloody Red Baron, are both currently out of print due to rangling over the reprint rights between publishers apparently, but the third book, Dracula Cha Cha Cha (published as Judgement of Tears in the US) is still generally available, and a final volume titled Johnny Alucard has been written and will be published eventually.

In terms of sales, I think the Amazon figures may be slightly misleading (though actually not too bad for books more than a decade old, given Private Eye's list of worst selling titles), since they were both somewhat 'sleeper' sellers at the time of publication, particularly Anno Dracula. Possibly might be worth checking out Nielsen Book Data for a more comprehensive view.

"I was wondering, Ed, if I detected the hand of an editor at work who has never come across either of the phrases 'dramatis personae' or 'central conceit', or if I've just got the wrong end of the stick?"

I'd need to go back and check the original document (in bed with the lurgie at the moment, so I can't be arsed!), but I'm sure that all mistakes are my own - for one thing, Bertie Wooster is supposed to be an MP, not a bleedin' vicar...

Oh, and you should definitely pick up El Sombra, Krom - very good, and reads like a mash-up of Zorro and The Count of Monte Cristo/The Stars My Destination, but with more Nazis.

Thanks, for that heads up, Ed.

Is it available through order at the WH Smiths?

There's a nice little book shop at the end of the street who do some really special fantasy and sci-fi  . Are Abaddon on any orders lists?


{MUTTER}Ruined January, February, March, April, May and June for me....{MUTTER}

"Ruined January, February, March, April, May and June for me..."

Sorry, what did now?

Not sure whether Fugitive Features is a sub-title with SPECIAL being a Tag title or what, but I am frothing at the prospect of July thank-you very much, you bastards.

The Dark Knight, dear Knight.

"That quote from the initial Swamp Thing collection (published in 1987): "

Heh ... that wasn't a bad stab on my part, considering how dismal my memory is.

Cheers

Jim

"Are Abaddon on any orders lists?"

If it has an ISBN (and it does), you should be able to order it from any bookseller:

Ye olde 10 digit IBSN: 1-905437-34-X
Swanky new 13 digit ISBN: 978-1-905437-34-4

More info relating to Philip Jose Farmer. Interestingly my wife was born in Wold Newton but has yet to team up with any fictional characters. We now live a couple of miles from the village of Wold Newton but no meterites landed in Langtoft. Boo!

Link: The Wold Newton Family

It's easy enough to *claim* that you and your wife live near Wold Newton and yet somehow miraculously *aren't* a team of freakyishly nefarious supervillains - I think the members of this board deserve to see a picture of you by the meteorite monument *not* being in any way 'super' in order to prove it!