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I've previously posted that I don't go in for Marvel comics.
Having said that I have purchased some graphic novels, and the few I have bought and read, I have enjoyed. (Morrison's New X Men, Weadon's Astonishing X-Men, Brubacker's Captain America, and Vol1 of Ennis' Punisher).  
So I'm begning to think I might have made an error in Judgement, and maybe I should be buying some titles.
The question is what? Should I just follow one character, or should I follow a creative team?

Help me out, list your three favorite Ongoing monthly Marvel titles below:


(I don't count Brubacker and Philips' Criminal which is part of the Icon line- as I do collect that).

I enjoy Marvel comics, but I just find it too hard to pick any one particular one up and start reading, since they're all so interwoven and they don't seem to have any real gap between the stories that you can jump in.

For example, I really want to read the Marvel Civil War, but there was no way in hell I was gonna buy every single comic involved in it. Thus, I waited for it to be collected in graphic novel form, and then I find that there are about twelve GNs, some prologues, some epilogues, some parallel stories, and I don't know how much of it is the actual Civil War. It's too damn twisty.

Nope,Marvel's pretty much over all terrible right now.


You guys might dig Annihilation and its sequel Annihilation Conquest (which is going on right now) for some good old fashion cosmic heroing (and the good 2000AD kind, not the Jim Starlin 90s Marvel kind). Maybe Nova as well. Dan Abnett works on all of those, so there's some tooth alumni involvement there.

Spurrier's Silver Surfer: In Thy Name is pretty cool too.

But everything Marvel Universe Earth Proper is 10 shades of shit.

I must confess that I have read and continue to read a lot of Marvel Comics. If you want to read Civil War, you may as well just buy the main trade. The tie-in stuff is only really of interest if you already know and care about the characters, I'd say. Read Civil War: Front Line if you want a slightly more intelligent approach t go along with the action and grunting of Mark Millar's central book.

If you want to jump in to a random Marvel comic, I'd say they're all reasonably accessible, as long as you don't mind not getting a few in jokes from time to time. Frankly a good editor should make sure all new comics are accessible.

My top three recommendations (on top of the excellent but already mentioned Captain America) right now are:

Amazing Spider-Man
Ms Marvel
Mighty Avengers

Good clean fun in all of them, and yes there's a lot of continuity to follow if you want to, but I'm pretty confident they'd be good reads to anyone who's never heard of any of the main characters before.

I'd have recommended X-Factor, but that's in the middle of a cross-over with all the other x-books right now, should be back to normal in a month or two.

Amazing Spider-Man is GARBAGE now the whole One-More-Day debacle has gone down. And Mighty Avengers is written by that hack Bendis.

I just find it too hard to pick any one particular one up and start reading, since they're all so interwoven

Shutdown: You've nailed the reason for me previously being so anti- marvel (and for that matter why I dropped all DC Universe titles).

I notice Amazing Spider-man #546 is bascially a jumping on point as three titles are being combined into one.

Astonishing X-Men is being relaunched soon as Astonishing X-Men: Second Stage.

Maybe these two titles would be good jumping on points (I nearly started getting Astonishing when Weadon took over, based on Morrison's New X-men, but puled out at the last minute).

I suppose the other option is to just wait and buy various trades when they're released.

Theres 2 different series of Ennis Punisher you can get as GN.

Theres the normal Marvel Knights collections which feature other Marvel characters (Spiderman, Wolverine, etc) and are  good for a laugh.

It was then rebooted as MAX collections which are far grittier stories and a lot swearier.

I would recommend both.

"Amazing Spider-Man is GARBAGE now the whole One-More-Day debacle has gone down."

Hasn't there been, like, one issue out, with a new creative team, since OMD?  I can't officially comment, having not read that comic myself, but it seems a bit soon to be branding it 'garbage', surely?

"I suppose the other option is to just wait and buy various trades when they're released."

That's more or less what I do, just buy trades of the major Marvel or DC events.

The last Marvel title I bought on a month by month basis was the Dark Tower comic book series last year, but only because A) I'm a huge fan of the books and B) It was a mini-series so guaranteed no crossovers, or running on for months on end.

I'm not sure about the whole 'no jumping-on point' thing - Marvel have extensive Story So Far recaps in all their books on page 1, and have for several years now - I assume because most of their output is written for the growing trade reprint market rather than individual issues.  Worth checking out are Captain America, The Initiative, She-Hulk, Runaways (if and when they ever decide to put an issue out), and Ennis' Punisher - although Ennis leaves the title in a couple of months and there's no-one working for Marvel who can come close, so god knows what the book will be like then.  There's always Matt Fraction's Punisher: War Journal, but it's a bit naff, as it tries to be the Marvel Knights series that Ennis did years ago, but without the same ear for dialogue or irony (which I freely admit amounts to several variations of "Oh no, I - who have killed with bullets - have been killed *by* bullets!").

It's been mentioned above, but I'm not as furious as a great many are about Spidey's 'Brand New Day' thing - though you'd have to be a certified mental patient to be as angry as some of the fans are - but it does come across as immensely dickless storytelling to just push the reset button when the franchise is written into a corner by a writing pool clearly out of ideas, but unwilling to step aside for younger hands who'd chew off a nut to get the opportunity to work on Marvel's flagship character.  The post-reset books have been okay so far, but not a patch on Ultimate Spidey, or the self-contained Spider-Man Adventures - which kind of backs up my belief that the main spidey writers and editors - rather than the characters - have run out of steam.

Ennis' run on Preacher is about to end (at 55 I think) so no point jumping on now - get the trades or wait for an Omnibus (thats what I'm doing).

Otherwise favourites are (& excluding the aforementioned Captain America - again sit it out for the inevitable 2nd Omnibus):-

Immortal Iron Fist (Brubaker again, kung-fu goodness)

Daredevil (yes yet more Brubaker stuff. He the man at Marvel these days).

New Avengers (Bendis - 'nuff said).

Otherwise 'Nova' by 2K's very own Dan Abnett gets a lot of rave reviews.

Oh and mark your diary for this summer because apparently there will be an Omnibus of Brian Michael Bendis' run on Daredevil (just prior to the current Brubaker run).

This run was astoundingly good, best thing in comics for a very long time. Outside of 2000AD of course :0)

Marvel died after Secret Wars.

Theres 2 different series of Ennis Punisher you can get as GN.

I was thinking about getting some of this, but then I discovered the whole more than one comic thing. What's the best one to start with?

And regarding Marvel: it's instructive that, when you posted that list of stuff that's out this week,  it didn't even occur to me to look at the Marvel section. I think the last Marvel comic I bought was Daredevil #233.

eternals gn Gaimen and J. Romita enjoyed it, exiles - have got most these in collected book form and really enjoyed em. bought some DC ones recently and just havent got off on them and the paper stock they are printed on is crap

I'm reading wolverine; Soultaker. Er.. someone passed it on to me. % instalments.

A; you have like poor anime.
B; It doesn't rely on continuity.
C; You have to like wolverine.
and
D; Its Marvel and that is the only reason I tagged the thread.

Krom.

Currently far to many Marvel for my own good (Infinite Crisis Countdown War is crap and only thing worth reading at DC appears to be Green Lantern War) but top 3 are -

Punisher Max- Slavers arc in particular is fantastic, Just a shame Garth is leaving soon

Fantastic Four - Dwayne Mcduffie having some fun with Marvel's first family. Apprehensive on the whole Hitch / Millar thing tho

Iron Man - slow car crash as Tony stark watches all his good intentions backfire on him. surprising decent after the dickish way he was portrayed in civil war

You know I get quite a few Marvel comics but cant for the life of me remember what they are, i enjoy them as a 10 minute read but then general never touch again.  Not klike Tooth that gets cionstant re-reads.
Only titles i can actually remember month to month are Imortal Iron Fist(never thought I'd like a kung-fu comic), the two Avengers comics(mighty and new) just to see what the hell is happening wuith this whole shape shifter invasion that seems to have disappeared, i did like Young Avengers but that seems to have dissappeared off the shelf after Civil War.  Spider Man has always been a bit Meh to me and pushing the re-set doesn't really make me want to get into it.  I cant help but get the X-books and have done since Morrisons run, the Big cross over thats happening at the moment seems entertaining enough and Carey is a good writter.

CU Radbacker

I've just read the Straczynski(sp?)/Weston The Twelve first issue- first Marvel comic I've thought about getting in ages.  It's better than it should be, and Weston's art is beyond awesome.  I was somewhat amazed to see that it's apparently firmly set in the main Marvel continuity, in that there were many references to Civil War, and none to Mary Jane Parker (joke, joke).  

I also read the Brand New Day Spiderman issue.  If you're going to jetison almost everything to reboot a character, you should probably do something with said icon, not just have him spend 22 pages attending job interviews, getting mugged and visiting a soup kitchen.  Stan and Steve this ain't.

It's the shiny new(er) Ultimate range of TPs for me. Ultimate Spidey's very good - like an American high school teen drama, but with spider-powers, which is good if you happen to like that sort of thing. Handily, I do.

The Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men are also surprisingly good, as far as I've read. Ignore the first issue of each storyline and anything an English character says (because it's almost certainly the word 'git' or 'bugger' used in a bizzare context) and the Millar-man provides!

"What's the best one to start with? "

Well the MK range has some really daft stories with superheroes, OT violence and villains that wouldn't be out of place in Preacher. Some lovely Steve Dillon & Cam Kennedy art as well.

The Max range still has the OT violence but is more realistically drawn and the stories are more serious.

I really like them both but I think the Marvel Knights stuff just edges it for me.

So start with Welcome Welcome Back Frank  is the short answer.

Welcome Back Frank is the one I have. So, what's the next step (Wikipedia doesn't have a tpb list for Punisher books)?

Punisher MK
1)Welcome Back Frank
2)Army of One
3)Business as Usual
and
4)Full Auto

Is there a list of the Omnibus collections that Marvel has/is planning to release?

Ennis' Punisher is indeed THE BOMB - I have the first two lovely big hardback collections and a few of the subsequent tpbs. The very last one I got showed him treading water a bit - he pretty much recyles Soap and Von Richtofen

I say start getting the twelve while you can it looks good it reads good and it probably tastes good too

I say start getting the twelve while you can it looks good it reads good and it probably tastes good too

Marvel Comics. Since about 1987 they've been a bit shit haven't they? I haven't bothered with them much for the past 20 years.

After many years of avoiding the implosion of the the X-Books and Marvel in general, I just finished the first 23 issues of Whedon's Astonishing X-Men in one big self-indulgent read (the last  issue's on its way, apparently ), and if you liked pre-Secret Wars,/i> Claremont, this stuff is gold.  Good Claremonty team dynamics, Kitty Pryde centre stage, alien threats, resurrected characters and rambling sub-plots, but with Whedon's infinitely better ear for snappy dialogue (admittedly a matter of taste, but I'm a Buffy and Firefly fan) and nice consistent (if a bit photo-ref'd for my tastes) art from Cassady.  It was like a long warm cup of the 80's, even if it's quixotic attempts to make Cyclops remotely interesting fail utterly.  Recommended, although I'm glad I didn't have to survive the publication schedule - 23 issues in nearly 5 years!).    

aaaargh, italics off.

astonishing xmen is ******* great, ultimate avengers and xmen is good spandex stuff

I've just read the first 3 Astonishing X-Men trades back-to-back, and they are very good. I like Cassady's art.

(As a fan of Vertigo comics, I feel a bit frustrated recently that so many of their books have "special" artwork- I like a bit of mainstream!)

I've added The Twelve, Amazing Spider-man (from the begining of Brand New Day), and I'll be adding Astonishing X-Men: Second Stage when Warren Ellis takes over (I think- unless I decide to wait for the trades).

Bizarrely, there was a feature about One More Day on Channel Four News last night. It was pretty good too.

My favourite Marvel comics of the last few years were Planet Hulk and Peter David's run on Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.

Claremont is now shit yjopugh isn't he, haven't read a good Xbook by him for years his last run on Uncanny or what ever it was very nearly drove me away from it, impenatrable crap of the huighest order.

CU Radbacker

Personally I would avoid the monthlies and stick to the graphic novels. Get the whole story in one.Personally I think you can't go wrong with the Fantastic Four or the Hulk. Strongly recommend the Planet Hulk story, mindblowing. Oh, and if you aren't already (which of course you should be) join your local library. Most libraries have a great selection of graphic novels, especially the larger,city libraries.Immerse yourself in the Marvel Universe and won't cost you a penny! (Except for the fines of course!) Enjoy friend! Postcard Jack...

When I was a kid, I used to like Iron Man. I tried to draw him. Him, Spidey and the Thing. Johnny Storm was a favorite and of course, the Hulk.

I never followed my Iron Man path though and if there are any stand out series between '79 and now I would like to hear about them from a 2000ad collective, perspective.

Most libraries have a great selection of graphic novels

Not in bloody Denmark they don't!

;-)

When I was a kid at the same time as krombasher, it was The Avengers I liked best, followed by The Fantastic Four and The Champions (encountered only as a back up in some Americanisized, black-and-white Fantastic Four reprint). When I was a teenager, it was The Defenders (several years defunct even by then) that caught my imagination.

What they all had in common was the soap opera element of a bunch of characters living together in a clubhouse, plus the fight scenes that had to account for the whereabouts of up to 10 characters at a time. That's good value!

And then there's the... er... dressing up. I suppose I kind've dug that side of superhero team comics too. Mmmmm, costumes! Colours! (boots!)

Well okay Ush, that was a bit vague at the end.(My post and yours,yer fool:])

More specifically, I wanted to follow up the old Iron Man story's and whether anyone on the board knew of the Iron Man loner missions.

I'm afraid I was one of those who took it personally about Iron Man taking a a bit part role in a spandex gang, really.

Of course he isn't, I was misguided and maybe that is all there is to know.

BUT.... if there is any fortnightlies  or monthlies that tell the tale of Iron Man solo and indeed leading into his decision to join a group, for a casual reader's consideration... I should look it up on the net, shouldn't I?

Right.Will do. Later.

I haven't read a huge amount of Iron Man but if you liked his solo adventures then I'm pretty sure the old series had that in spades. I think the only things you can buy in trade format from after 1979 are the 'demon in a bottle' saga (which is pretty good early 80s stuff - or is it late 70s?) and then nothing until Armor Wars, which is ok but not spectacular. In between I've read a few issues by Denny O'Neill in which Tony Stark falls off the wagon again and loses his company. Kind of ponderous but I enjoyed what I've read of it, and again hardly any tie-ins with the Avengers. I've heard that after 'Armor Wars' the solo book is basically rubbish (especially when he's drawn by Kev Hopgood, which is a shame as I like his style), but the 2000s reboot by Kurt Busiek and later Joe Quesada (as writer, would you believe) is meant to be pretty good. I read the end of that run - from about issue 60 I think - where Iron Man becomes the US secretary of Defence. It's a logical and interesting idea, and it tied in nicely with the real-world build up to the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.

You might also get a kick out of Warren Ellis + Adi Granov on 'Iron Man: Extremis' and Joe Casey + Frazer Irving on 'Iron Man: the Inevitable' which came out a couple of years ago. Both are self-contained stories that should be easy to find in trade paperback, and have very little tie in with Avengers, Civil War or any a' that.

Try the Iron Man:Hypervelocity limited series by Adam Warren.

Mind blowing stuff !

Here's a link :

Link: Hypervelocity

and what's mind blowing about it?

As to Marvel comics, considering that they make something like the dissolving of Spider Man's marriage a major event -and handle it in a ludicrous, dull way and typically melodramatic, have they never heard of a simple divorce? I think they're priorities are fucked, self important and self serving.

Can they not just get on with telling good stories.

Read it.

For example, I really want to read the Marvel Civil War, but there was no way in hell I was gonna buy every single comic involved in it.

I can give you a really good reason why you don't want to read Marvel Civil War.

Mark Miller wrote it. and yet again he shoots the pooch at the end.

Or let me put it another way...

Link: A boiled down version of the events in Civil War.

I've been reading Garth Ennis' Punisher Max series. So far, it has been fantastic, just like Ennis' other books.

I've enjoyed the Incredible Hulk and World War Hulk, and am intrigued as to where they are going with that next.

To be honest, I don't really get on with spandex clad superheroes, so the Marvel books I enjoy most are under the MAX label.

Terror Inc, Foolkiller, The Zombie etc are great and a new Man-Thing run starts this week.

"Or let me put it another way..."

That has actually put me off it a little bit. I think I'll still try it at some stage, but I'll maybe work on Preacher first. :)

Okay, thanks to the wonders of the interweb, I've just finished a marathon read of the various components of Marvel's crossover event of a few years back, House of M, which amounted to some 50-odd comics (well over 1000 pages) and made no sense whatsoever.

The concept is interesting enough - the Scarlet Witch changes reality so that Mutants have been the dominant species on Earth since the 1970s, and distracts the whole superhero community from the change by giving them all in 'ideal' versions of their lives into the bargain.  So far so good.

However.

The comics involved seem to bear no relation to events in the main House of M mini-series, even ones that had been specifically created for the 'event' (Mutopia, Spider-man: House of M).  For example, the Spider-man in the main book is a popular celebrity when the 'truth' of his world is revealed to him by (guess) Wolverine, while the Spider-man in his own mini-series starts out like that but loses everything and ends up faking his own death.  Huh?  Are all the heroes in separate realities?  Or did someone just not circulate the memos properly?  Worse, the whole thing had no real conclusion - it just sort of stopped when Wanda pulled the plug (again).

Some of the issues were fun (Incredible Hulk, Fantastic Four, Exiles), others were dire (Uncanny X-Men, Iron Man), but it basically felt like none of the writers had a clue what was going on.

My questions to anyone else who read are:

1.  What?
2.  Why?
3. Would it make any more sense if I tracked down the following issues of the various crossed-over series?

Help!

Oh, I should say that the single Captain America issue involved is quite brilliant (something like Vol 5 , No. 10), and well worth a read on its own.  Brubaker is a very clever man.

giving them all in 'ideal' versions of their lives into the bargain

Didn't The Beyonder do that? I remember he gave Daredevil his sight back, at any rate.

Didn't The Beyonder do that?

He did indeed.  Pretty good that was too, in comparison. Secret Wars II had its moments.

Hi all
I first encounter with comics, were the british landscape version of marvel comics, different 3-4 pages stories, then moving onto the american versions, however the last 5 years have been unbearable reading, the crossovers, the endless spinoffs, What happened to marvel? Yes either you were DC or Marvel, i always found marvel a better read,but recently picked up a few DC titles and to my surprise they werent bad.

I always have had a shitty attitude towards Marvel. Always a fan of 2000ad, Eagle, Battle, the reprints of marvel that were available here in the west of Ireland in the early eighties were less than impressive. They were either heavy on continuity, or old fashioned eg the Spiderman Weekly and Secret Wars. The art seemed static compared to McMahon or Belardinelli etc.
Another problem i have had reading american comics is that i (am)was a comics fan and always had to have the complete collection to read the story.
 So after 15 odd years of having 5 issues of Ronin bought of Steve Rock mailorder, I splurged out and bought the collection, and that has broke my ocd of getting all the issues!

Last Christmas I got the essentiol FF and Silver Surfer, And I really enjoyed these esp the Surfer. Haviing enjoyed these I bough bothe Neil Gaimans offerings from Marvel, 1608 and The Eternals

 I had not expected to enjoy 1608, but did. Reminded me of all the Marvel Films, I really liked them, but only had a basic knoledge of the origins. I imagine if I had a better knoledge of the stories(ala Dredd) I might be dissapointed.

Gaimans The Eternals I was really looking forward to,  remembering Kirby originals from the Marvel UK reprints' Future Tense' or somthing like that. Great story, great art, poor ending. It was left as if 'to be continued', very annoying.

I also picked up  a good few Ennise's Punisher GN  handy  a while back, And coming from reading back to back Hitman and Preacher, These were a disapointment. I got both Marvel knights and Max, and while I couldnt fault any script and art(except mayby the irish themed issues which were a bit chringworthy imo ), I really enjoy a lot of Ennis's work, i felt these were a littly of Ennis by Colour.
I am looking forward to picking up The Boys tho, wonder if the Wagner/Ennis Dredd is going ahead at IDW?
Cheers

David

The main Marvel comics I pick up have been the Dark Tower comics, that is Gunslinger Born (last year) and The Long Road Home (This year.)  They're not bad, [spoiler]although I thought they took a bit of a liberty with the burnt Susan, pink eyeball bit at the start of The Long Road Home. This arc covers material not in the books, but the part at the start overlaps the end of Wizard and Glass and is a bit of a deviation from Stephen King's Dark Tower books.  There are ways to explain it, but it still felt wrong to me.[/spoiler] The rest was pretty good though.

Apparently the next arc Treacherywill be out soon (October I think.)

They're also doing a comic adaption of The Stand. I'm in too minds on that, since I've got the novel and I'd prefer new material rather than seeing another adaption of a story I've read. The art looks phenomenal though. The sketchbook is free if you can get hold of it. (I had mine sent free without my asking when I purchased the last edition of Long Road Home.

As for more mainstream Marvel books, I don't buy them, but I tend to enjoy what I read. Mostly.  I tend to pick various GNs (Marvel, DC, 2000 AD, Anything I fancy) from the library. I read some Ultimate X-Men stuff, and, whilst it wasn't bad, I wasn't all that taken. Mainly because I don't like the idea of deviating from the main universe though.  

I rather enjoyed the first volume of Ultimate Spiderman though. [spoiler](Although that version of Green Goblin who appeared at the end was wrong though. Where was the maniacal glee? It was basically just another evil Hulk.)[/spoiler] Ultimates... meh. What was with the man eating hulk? I liked the humor in that, but it was too much of a departure of the main Hulk for me though. And that version of Banner was a real wimp. [spoiler]And that stuff between iron man's alter ego and the sexy  Russian lady seemed to be played for sauce just for the sake of it.[/spoiler]

Astonishing X-Men, (the couple of volumes I've read) were great. I like Whedon's dialogue too.

Oh, and a lot of the Daredevil stuff I've read, I've largely enjoyed. Not keen on some of the art though.

Whedon's Astonishing X-Men was indeed great, but it suffers from one big problem - it's ultimately inconsequential.  One of Whdeon's great strengths as a writer is his willingness to permanently change his characters, despite their popularity with the fans, and kill them off seemingly at a whim (witness [spoiler]Wash[/spoiler] and [spoiler]Anya[/spoiler]). Alas, this can't work with the X-Men - whatever lessons Scott learns about not being a jerk, whatever faltering steps Kitty and Peter's relationship takes, whoever sacrifices themselves for the good of the team, in a year or two, it'll all be undone or forgotten.  

This doesn't take away from it being a very interesting well-constructed self-contained tale about characters we remember fondly from the 80's, but ultimately it's very hard to suspend belief long enough to care, when you know someone else will be along in a minute to move the goal-posts.  It's as if you were reading Halo Jones knowing that Brinna, Toby, Toy and the Glyph would probably pop up alive in Book IV when Millar took over writing chores, and Halo and Luiz would get back together, and we'd discover the Hoop was a virtual reality prison, and Halo was actually psychic and could fly.  It wouldn't mean that Books 1-3 weren't fab, but I can't believe it wouldn't spoil your enjoyment.  That's my main reason for being unable to follow most US comics anymore.

Quote from: "Chris Mardle"The main Marvel comics I pick up have been the Dark Tower comics, that is Gunslinger Born (last year) and The Long Road Home.......

I read Gunslinger Born last year and I loved it, although I was a little disappointed too, since I had been expecting a new story rather than an illustrated version of Wizard and Glass. Still enjoyed it. I totally forgot that Long Road Home had started until I read about the second or third issue being released, so I didn't bother trying to get into it then, I'll wait for the collected edition.

I finally got around to ordering the Age of Apocalypse collection, something I've wanted to read for ages. I remember reading one or two issues of it when it first came out back in the 90s, and it was definitely one of Marvels better "stunts", I reckon.

I wouldn't really recommend developing a habit for any of the ongoing series - I always find them uneconomical - expecially with all the cynical cross-over and spin-off ploys they use to make you buy more (Can anyone advise me of the biggest number of X-titles there were at any one time? Enough to drive me away in the 90s, that's for sure). If you have the patience to wait several months for the collected GN, I find it's much easier to make an informed choice about what is essential reading (but we all know how hard it is NOT to have read something that's been out for ages!!! Learn to use that seething mass of over-eager fanboys out there who NEED to read and comment on stuff asap as a sort of quality control panel - once the hype settles, you can see what's what).
I ended up getting sucked in to Civil War and bought it all, some of it unwisely (Thunderbolts? WTF?), but you could get a good overview of where the Marvel Universe has gone recently with the following books: Secret War (not to be confused with that 80's 'Secret Wars' kak), House of M, X-Men:Decimation, Road to Civil War, Civil War and Civil War:Front Line, the Death of Capt America (which I'm still waiting for in TBP!). After that, the New Avengers:Illuminati ties the whole thing up with the Planet Hulk and World War Hulk books (which also has a great Front Line spin-off) and lead into the skrull's Secret Invasion, the essential bits of which i expect to be collecting in the coming months). I haven't read any of this latest Amazing Spiderman hoo-ha, so I'm loath to judge but it strikes me as a really bad idea.
The best thing to come out of those two massive engines of industry that are Marvel and DC however, are the occasional rare gem of a one-off - titles such as 1602 and Marvels, or DC's Red Son. If you have not picked up Marvels, I can heartilly recommend it - sumptious art a refreshingly different and heartwarming story and loads of memory-jogging references to old classics. A Mighty Marvel Must-Have!

I really enjoyed the Milligan / Allred X-Force and X-Statix that were out a few years ago. You can probably pick them up for pence now.

I read Red Son recently and loved it. I haven't got around to Marvels yet though. The other one I've heard is supposed to be good is the Universe X collection, anyone have any advice on that?

Quote from: "the shutdown man"I totally forgot that Long Road Home had started until I read about the second or third issue being released, so I didn't bother trying to get into it then, I'll wait for the collected edition.

Be aware you'll miss the Furth end-stories if you go for the collected version, (which might not be a bad thing if you don't like them. My views on them are varied, i.e. some I like, some I don't).  

I wouldn't be surprised if they brought out a separate collection for them eventually though.

Quote from: "JamesC"I really enjoyed the Milligan / Allred X-Force and X-Statix that were out a few years ago. You can probably pick them up for pence now.

Yes you can indeed. I picked them up off eBay and a couple of comic marts and don't think I'd have paid much more than 75p for any of them. And what a delight they are.

That said generally I'm really really moving away from Marvel. They seem a bit... well... smug and self satisfied. This 'Embrace Change' schennigan may well be the end of my Marvel days (well Daredevil trades and Captain Britain aside) for a while at least. I'll give it a chance but I'm worried it seems really forced and empty as a concept. Marvel seem so delighted in their bold world changing Universe redefining events that they're loosing sight of what some people look for in there comics. Good old sun superhero stories.

Mind that said given the sales they appear to rake in like they could care what a few people like me think!

Still find myself much more attracted to DC Universe for my superhero fun these days. Nowt like bucking the trend huh!

Quote from: "Mardroid"Be aware you'll miss the Furth end-stories if you go for the collected version, (which might not be a bad thing if you don't like them. My views on them are varied, i.e. some I like, some I don't).  

I wouldn't be surprised if they brought out a separate collection for them eventually though.

On a slightly Marvel Dark Tower related note, I only found out last week there's a Stand comic book coming out (or possibly already out, I'm way out of touch). The first book is called The Stand: Captain Trips and some of the artwork they showed on the Marvel site looked fantastic, particularly of Flagg.

**This 'Embrace Change' schennigan may well be the end of my Marvel days **

Yeah, they can embrace my ball-sack. Everytime I'm enjoying one of their comics their bloody crossovers bleed into it and ruin a perfectly good storyline. I'm in it for the writer and artist not the continuity. The mere fact that so many of my countrymen are "embracing" this endless stream of crossover nonsense makes me think we have more marks in this country than hot meals.

Still, Criminal is a GREAT COMIC and untouched by their virulent mucking about. Guardians of the Galaxy is good (until they ruin it), Iron Fist, She-Hulk, were excellent (till they were ruined).

Quote from: "ctaylor"That said generally I'm really really moving away from Marvel.

Quote from: "ctaylor"Still find myself much more attracted to DC Universe for my superhero fun these days.

On reflection I've kind of swung bewteen the two over the years. For long years I was marvel only - superman and batman were just...too silly.

Post-Dark Knight returns, I went all DC, and back and forth since.

I'm on the opposite track to you though - it's Make Mine Marvel these days. I felt totally cheated and let down after buying all the DC Infinite Crisis stuff last year ('Identity Crisis was so good, but the 'countdown' got shittier as it went along). Should've been called Crisis - part 2 of 3 anyway. Now this year my pennies have all gone on the civil war/avengers/hulk stuff - true there's been some polished turds amongst that (thunderbolts!) but I still don't fancy DC much.

As you'll see, I'm not one of those gotta-have-it-as-soon-as-it-comes-out kinda guys - I'm currently waiting for secret invasion to get collected - was it worth it anyone?

QuoteYeah, they can embrace my ball-sack.

I'm trying not to think about the latest spiderman fiasco, but the whole iron man/avengers thing was a surprise to me- I was way out of touch.

And then there's the whole 'Ultimate' alternatives.....

Quote from: "dandontdare"I'm trying not to think about the latest spiderman fiasco

I dunno- I'm a hundred per cent behind the One More Day/ Brand New Day run. Spidey has always been, to a large degree about wish-fulfillment for me- and shaving twenty years off your life, going back to a time before you were married, etc etc, seems like a continuation of that idea.

But don't tell my wife I said that.

Steev

Having said that though- this has just been thrown at me:

Spider-Man writer Marc Guggenheim on Spider-Man: Brand New Day."Here's my attitude, if anyone is upset about the marriage going away, then they must all be pro gay marriage... "Because if you're pro gay marriage, you understand the distinction between a marriage and a civil union -- that a civil union is not equal to a marriage. We downgraded Mary Jane and Peter to a civil union. If that bothers you, then you're pro gay marriage."

Eep. Looks like Hitler's writing Spidey! Time to bail!

Steev

Quote"Here's my attitude, if anyone is upset about the marriage going away, then they must all be pro gay marriage... "Because if you're pro gay marriage, you understand the distinction between a marriage and a civil union -- that a civil union is not equal to a marriage. We downgraded Mary Jane and Peter to a civil union. If that bothers you, then you're pro gay marriage."

I don't understand what Marc Guggenheim is going on about. This argument has more than a whiff of sophistry about it. Is he not rather trying to bait the conservative anti-gay marriage lobby? His main dig seems to be at people who want Spider-man and Mary Jane to be married, whereas now they're not. Reading between the lines it would appear that as far as Marc Guggenheim is concerned, there's not much difference between marriage and cohabitation, and the only people who would give a hoot are conservatives who want to keep the distinction between marriage and civil union, because they think marriage is 'better', which serves to de-legitimize gay relationships in their view. Maybe he's having a dig at conservatives who disapprove of comic book characters living in sin (or comic book guys who hate to see years of continuity undone) by invoking gay marriage because that's an even greater horror of the former group than unmarried carnal relations of a heterosexual nature. Effectively saying: "You think Peter Parker and Mary Jane should be married, not cohabiting; therefore you think that gay couples should be allowed to marry because that's better than a civil union; therefore U R teh ghey." If that's Marc Guggenheim's argument, it doesn't sound like a very grown-up one, and it's logically flawed. But like I say, I don't know what Guggenheim's going on about; I'm just offering an interpretation. But I'd stop short of saying he's Hitler!

**"Because if you're pro gay marriage, you understand the distinction between a marriage and a civil union -- that a civil union is not equal to a marriage. We downgraded Mary Jane and Peter to a civil union. If that bothers you, then you're pro gay marriage." **

WTF!? So that's what a square peg hitting the sides of a round hole sounds like. It's not often when the idea to communicate clashes so thouroughly with the thing to which it's being compared. Like someone lit a metaphor on fire and you could hear the screams. Unique.

Thanks for unpacking that for me House of Ush, my brain would have froze up from the effort.

Marvel Zombies is good fun (original series). Great covers by Arthur Suydam reminiscant of those 'team' pics that used to adorn the inside covers of old British Marvel annuals from the 70's and 80's.

Just saw this advertised on tv:

The Official Marvel Graphic Novels Collection (http://www.graphicnovelcollection.com/index.html)

(http://www.graphicnovelcollection.com/images/collection/section3-books.jpg)

I don't really know much about Marvel comics, so I've put in a tentative order with my local thrill merchant to give these a go.

hmm £20 a month and £600 for the set. Nice must have for the marvel fanbois but there would be too much in there I'd never want to read I guess.

Quote from: James Stacey on 29 December, 2011, 04:29:08 PM
hmm £20 a month and £600 for the set. Nice must have for the marvel fanbois but there would be too much in there I'd never want to read I guess.

...and a marvel fanboy is likely to own much of it anyway. Seems very steep for some pretty matching spines. More like one for the obsessive completist with more money than sense. How can you commit to a multi-part collection (doesn't seem to state exactly how many, but looks like around 30ish) without knowing what's going to be in it? If they turn out to be decidedly non-classic fillers after a while, would you want to miss some out and leave a gap in that nice spine-image?

It'sclever marketing right enough, but a poor deal for the fan IMHO.

On the recommendations front...

There is now an Ultimate Collection of Morrison's New X-Men (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_X-Men_(2001_series)) run, well worth picking up:

www.amazon.co.uk/X-Men-Grant-Morrison-Ultimate-Collection/dp/0785132511/
www.amazon.co.uk/X-Men-Grant-Morrison-Ultimate-Collection/dp/078513252X/
www.amazon.co.uk/X-Men-Grant-Morrison-Ultimate-Collection/dp/0785132538/

Although it ran out of steam and subsequent stories have tried to undermine it to some degree the ideas and feel continued in Joss Whedon's run on Astonishing X-Men, a good continuity-light take on the team (Warren Ellis took over and kept the same spirit rolling, in his own way):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astonishing_X-Men#Volume_three_.282004.E2.80.93present.29

The hardcover of Morrison's Marvel Boy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noh-Varr) reboot is lovely too - it is jam-packed with both wild ideas and he was experimenting with how comics work. Granted it didn't always succeed on every level, but the real problem is that no one ever picked up his baton and ran with it, instead the character has been ground down to a dull stub:

www.amazon.co.uk/Marvel-Boy-Premiere-HC-Knights/dp/0785134409/

You should also give DnA's Marvel Cosmic work a spin, start at Annihilation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilation_(comics)) which rebooted/reworked everything.

Warren Ellis' run on Thunderbolts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolts_(comics))  is good stuff and also now has an Ultimate collection (as mentioned in another thread):

www.amazon.co.uk/Thunderbolts-Warren-Deodato-Ultimate-Collection/dp/0785158499/

It's not exactly the Thunderbolts as they've appeared before but if you want the classic vibe then Jeff Parker and Kev Walker/Declan Shalvey have returned to that whole redemption aspect and are writing one of the best team books at the Big Two.

I also hear good things about Uncanny X-Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_X-Force) and will be giving that a go in the New Year. Jonathan Hickman's run on Fantastic Four is playing with big mad sci-fi themes so could be worth a look.

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 29 December, 2011, 04:22:24 PM
Just saw this advertised on tv:

The Official Marvel Graphic Novels Collection (http://www.graphicnovelcollection.com/index.html)

(http://www.graphicnovelcollection.com/images/collection/section3-books.jpg)

I don't really know much about Marvel comics, so I've put in a tentative order with my local thrill merchant to give these a go.

I think this did the rounds earlier in the year (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/05/24/marvel-hardcovers-hit-british-newsstands/) - it suffers the same problems of all partworks (wtih some notable exceptions) in that you might not get value for money and you could end up with stuff you don't want. However, it does seems a classic collection with the Dark Phoenix Saga and Iron Man: Extremis (which was an influence on the films) which are more expensive to buy. It all depends on what the full list is as it could be a sweet deal but too many ringers thrown in there could spoil that. I'd also be interested to know how far back these collections go, as you might want to spend the money on some of the excellent big phonebooks in the Marvel Essentials series to get the classics like early Fantastic Four, Thor, etc. (the B&W print and bogroll paper is not a problem for those of us who grew up reading Marvel through the Marvel UK reprints) and Kirby's Eternals has got a 2 volume paperback release (although I'm keeping the Omnibus hardcover locked away here as it is a thing of beauty):

www.amazon.co.uk/Eternals-Jack-Kirby-Book-TPB/dp/0785133135/
www.amazon.co.uk/Eternals-Jack-Kirby-Book-TPB/dp/0785134425/

You might be better looking up the recommendations in the thread (or asking for ones that fit your tastes) and shopping around for cheap trades.

Ive not yet seen the tv advert, and am nowhere near a computer to look it up, but it strikes me as somewhat amazing and quite brilliant that they're doing a partwork that's entirely about the ACTUAL, PROPER COMICS and not yet more statues, tv/movie tie-ins, 'guidebooks' or whatnot. I'd be completely behind this if i didnt already have far too many marvel trades and far too little cash. And if there wasnt the Disney connection.

SBT

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 29 December, 2011, 05:29:56 PM
Ive not yet seen the tv advert, and am nowhere near a computer to look it up, but it strikes me as somewhat amazing and quite brilliant that they're doing a partwork that's entirely about the ACTUAL, PROPER COMICS and not yet more statues, tv/movie tie-ins, 'guidebooks' or whatnot. I'd be completely behind this if i didnt already have far too many marvel trades and far too little cash. And if there wasnt the Disney connection.

SBT

This. I'm getting it.

I would heartedly recommend 'Uncanny X-Force', the Dark Angel Saga just wrapped up and demanded an instant re-read. Only negative aspect could be how lost non-Marvel / X-Men readers could feel- it ain't exactly new reader friendly!
Still though, along with the new 'Wolverine & The X-Men' it's the only Marvel book worth picking up. The House of Ideas is generally leaving me cold these days...

The House of Ideas is now a House of Brain-Farts.

I hear ya Joe, but I think it's a shame really. They still have some great characters, and some brill talent working for them. Just wish they'd snap out of the vapid, greedy storytelling of recent years. Maybe a DC style reboot would do it for them, but I can't see it happening. Like I said- a shame.

Absolutely agree with the recommendations for 'Wolverine and the X-Men' and 'Uncanny X-Force': the latter has been consistently excellent (pun not intended) from the outset, and is definitely one of Marvel's top tier titles, critically-speaking. Kieron Gillen's 'Uncanny X-Men' is also very strong (I find myself much more inclined towards Cyclops's philosophy than Wolverine's recent bout of hippy nonsense), as is Gillen's 'Journey Into Mystery', the tale of Young Loki: the last issue's saga of the Hel-Wolf's pups was perfectly pitched. In my view, it's a long time since the X-titles had so many strong creative line-ups as they do right now - 'X-Men' is pointless and 'Astonishing...' is superfluous, but every other X-title varies from good to great.

On the non-X side of things, let's not forget Mark Waid's barnstorming current run on 'Daredevil'. If we're doing recommendations of Marvel stuff in general, his 'Fantastic Four' run with Mike Wieringo from a few years back, collected across 3 hardback collections, is one of greatest that series has ever seen. Rick Remender's current run on 'Venom' is also a cracker, as is Dan Slott's 'Amazing Spider-Man'.

That said, whilst I love many of the actual titles, I would struggle to say it's a good time to be a Marvel fan in general, as the company's current ultra-conservative approach to new titles / ideas seems to me to be very inward looking - everything has to be a very direct spin off from one of the core franchises and the general attitude seems to be 'milk the existing fans by publishing more issues of what already sells'.

Couldn't agree more with the 'Milk the fans' comment Greg...I'd really grinds my gears having to pick up, say, 3 issues of X-Factor in one month. They're literally unreal for that in the past coupla years. One of tne reasons I actually dropped most X-books; their own greed made it financially impossible to read them all (coupled with the fact the stories were generally forgettable tosh).

I do think the X-titles have recently turned a corner in terms of quality of individual books: 'WatXM' and 'UXM' actually have compelling reasons to exist and strong creative teams. Matt Fraction moving on from the franchise was also a major boost - the man can write good comics, but 'Uncanny...' was not one of 'em. However, the fact remains... do we really need 10 separate X-titles (11 if you count 'Ultimate...')? It's the 90s all over again. With fewer pouches and shoulder-pads.

On an aside- I was waiting for a compelling reason to drop 'X-Men Legacy' (compelling, cause it's difficult to give up a book you've literally read since day 1). When I heard Mike Carey was leaving I considered it the perfect opportunity. In passing, I mentioned this to my local comic shop owner- surprisingly (or maybe not so) he informed me that 90% of the people he knows that read it or subscribe to it are doing the same. Mark my words- Legacy will be cancelled by this time next year. Hopefully Astonishing & adjectivless do the same...

I'm sticking with 'Legacy' 'cos I like Christos Gage - I'm really enjoying 'Avengers Academy' (it's the only Avengers title I read, though that'll change when Remender takes on 'Secret Avengers'.) I'm surprised at the predicted drop-off rate - got the impression fandom was quite keen to see Gage's take - but the way the current market is, you could well be right. 'Generation Hope' will be the next X-title to go though, even if they keep it around long enough to get a boost from 'AvX', and it wouldn't surprise me if 'New Mutants' wasn't long for the chop either.

Well, I got me issue 1 of the Marvel GN Collection - which turns out to be Volume 21 in the series. I'm rather impressed with the quality and enjoyed the story/artwork. As I have virtually no Marvel comics and haven't really read one since the 80s I think I'll stick with this until either Marvel runs out of enthusiasm or I do.

I picked this up as well- as I don't think I have a copy of the 'Coming Home' collection... or, if I do, it's buried so deep as to be inaccessible. This particular run of Spidey is among my very favourites, so to have a nicely-presented hardback offered at £2.99 was too good to turn down. The spine can be made acceptable by the addition of a small sticker- which I'll do at some point- but I won't be getting these on a regular basis. I have no real interest in Iron Man: Extremis and already have The Ultimates... the next one, The Dark Phoenix Saga is always worth a punt, and again, I don't think I have it in a collection (at least not in colour, I'm pretty sure I have the Essential X-Men volume containing this storyline about somewhere), but at £6.99... Well, maybe.

Depending on how much Spidey they end up doing, I'll probably just use eBay to dip in and out if I can't find the trades cheaper online (which, I guess, is unlikely to be the case, so this may well be the only one I get). It would be lovely if they gave us the much-derided Howard Mackie run in this format, but such a thing isn't going to happen.

So- anyone wanting to dip into a pretty good Spidey story for a "pocket money price", presented in a lovely hardback, would be advised to hurry along and get this.

SBT

I'm tempted myself... especially as I don't have all that much Marvel stuff. At a tenner each (so £20 a month in total) I realise I could probably get these collections cheaper elsewhere, and I'm not taken by all of them. On the other hand I understand you can unsubscribe at any time and at roughly three quid for the first issue...

Oh, and I'd quite like that The Incredible Hulk DVD. Not the best superhero film, but it was pretty good and better than Hulk which I found rather pretentious.

Getting this has prompted an unlikely burst of activity this afternoon, in which i rescued all the u.s trades i could find from around the house and got them all into one place- all (oh fuck me) 250+ of them. I then took all my spidey ones (60) and arranged them along the top shelf of the scifi bookcase that sits on the top landing, and in doing so consigned my original star trek dvd collection (the last partwork i bought to completion) and associated movies to the wastes of storage in our bedroom.

Looking at the spideys made me wish this was a 'complete spider-man' partwork, building up over time to a series of hardbacks printing at least all of Amazing (nearly 700 issues) and the various in-story crossovers.

Now, that i'd subscribe to.

SBT

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 01 January, 2012, 06:51:10 PM
Looking at the spideys made me wish this was a 'complete spider-man' partwork, building up over time to a series of hardbacks printing at least all of Amazing (nearly 700 issues) and the various in-story crossovers.

Christ alive that'd be a delight. I love the Essential Collections to bits and with volume 11 already on the cards (well Amazon on the cards at least) we're not far from having all the issues I'd want (up to 300) but a nice affordable colour collection would be wonderful.

Quote from: Greg M. on 29 December, 2011, 09:51:13 PM
'Generation Hope' will be the next X-title to go though, even if they keep it around long enough to get a boost from 'AvX', and it wouldn't surprise me if 'New Mutants' wasn't long for the chop either.

Hey Greg, you sure you aint related to Destiny or Blindfold?
Just heard theres no solicitation for Generation Hope from Marvel this April.
I give New Mutants until July...

Just noticed something that's annoying me a bit...most other publishers (DC, Image) drop the price of their digital comics (by $1) one month after release, but Marvel seem to be retaining full price on most of their newer stuff (eg 'Wolverine & The X-Men' number 1 is still €2.99 and it's over 3 months old!). Bit of a slap in the face to digital purchasers who like a bit of Rick Remender in their lives...

No sure on the specific examples given but most Marvel books are $3.99 so they may well be dropped by a dollar but in doing so still go down to $2.99?

Sorry Colin, I'm always mixing currencies.
They intially retail for €2.99 ($3.99), and nearly all X-titles I've checked from the past few months haven't dropped.
DC books drop from €2.99 to €2.39, or €2.39 to €1.59 like clockwork every month.

Sorry my mistake can't tell me euros from me $.

Anyone gonna pick up 'Age of Apocalypse' next week? My head (and bank account) are saying no, but my heart still belongs to that roasting hot summer in '95 when weekly trips to Forbidden Planet to get the latest part of the AOA saga almost trumped teenage sex and underage drinking for my affections...

Quote from: Greg M. on 29 December, 2011, 09:06:21 PM
Absolutely agree with the recommendations for 'Wolverine and the X-Men' and 'Uncanny X-Force': the latter has been consistently excellent (pun not intended) from the outset, and is definitely one of Marvel's top tier titles, critically-speaking. Kieron Gillen's 'Uncanny X-Men' is also very strong (I find myself much more inclined towards Cyclops's philosophy than Wolverine's recent bout of hippy nonsense), as is Gillen's 'Journey Into Mystery', the tale of Young Loki: the last issue's saga of the Hel-Wolf's pups was perfectly pitched. In my view, it's a long time since the X-titles had so many strong creative line-ups as they do right now - 'X-Men' is pointless and 'Astonishing...' is superfluous, but every other X-title varies from good to great.

On the non-X side of things, let's not forget Mark Waid's barnstorming current run on 'Daredevil'. If we're doing recommendations of Marvel stuff in general, his 'Fantastic Four' run with Mike Wieringo from a few years back, collected across 3 hardback collections, is one of greatest that series has ever seen. Rick Remender's current run on 'Venom' is also a cracker, as is Dan Slott's 'Amazing Spider-Man'.

That said, whilst I love many of the actual titles, I would struggle to say it's a good time to be a Marvel fan in general, as the company's current ultra-conservative approach to new titles / ideas seems to me to be very inward looking - everything has to be a very direct spin off from one of the core franchises and the general attitude seems to be 'milk the existing fans by publishing more issues of what already sells'.

I very recently started to pick up 2000ad after a growing disenchantment with Marvel comics after many years of emotional attachment. I went from a sizeable comic list to the point where I now have none on order whatsoever and I haven't bought one in months. All the titles that floated my geek boat just collectively waned imo. Funny Daredevil was one of those. I found Waid's take just unexceptionable-a return to the DD of old. I think I was too steeped in Miller/Bendis,Brubaker tbh.

To each his own it gors without saying.

*MASSIVE* Sigh....
Just read about Marvels planned 'X-Treme X-Men' relaunch this July.
They have got to be f*cking kidding! Thats the 6th- THE 6th- "monthly" (LOL!) X-Men title, not even counting spin-offs Wolverine, AOA, X-Factor, New Mutants, Uncanny X-Force, etc etc etc etc.

F*ck them, I'm done- apart from Uncanny X-Force via digital, I'm dropping whatever I hadn't dropped already.
Much prefer to spend my cash on new & impressive stuff like Prophet, Fatale, Saga etc.

I've spotted a 'New Mutants' sale on comiXology today, and will admit the Dan Abnett / Andy Lanning arc looks tempting at that price.
Anyone read it / recommend it?

It's ok. The DnA-era team's modus operandi of 'cleaning up the X-Men's loose ends' means that they end up in a few peculiar continuity backwaters (The Ani-Mator / Birdboy story, for instance) so it's probably of most interest if you're already very familiar with X-continuity.

Cheers Greg, I'm all too familiar with the convoluted continuity unfortunately!
It was the covers near the end of the run with some of the team wearing techno-organic / Phalanx body suits that caught my eye.
Think I might just get a couple to check it out.
I'd read a few arcs of this run already by the way (Necrosha, Second Coming, Age of X), but never really felt the need to have it on my pull list.

QuoteIt was the covers near the end of the run with some of the team wearing techno-organic / Phalanx body suits that caught my eye.

Ah, I can't help you with the tail-end of the run, I'm afraid: I'd stopped reading by that point. I gather it involves an evil future Doug Ramsay. He is probably taking over the world by speaking both Flemish and Lithuanian or something to that effect.

Quote from: Greg M. on 01 April, 2013, 03:01:22 PM
I gather it involves an evil future Doug Ramsay. He is probably taking over the world by speaking both Flemish and Lithuanian or something to that effect.

Just be thankful that the UK are distancing themselves from The EU...reality is quite stranger than fiction.

Is anybody else beginning to wonder if the appearance of Angela in Age of Ultron is all a bluff for... you know who. I'm not following it all, but in Marvel's solicitations they have Neil Gaiman co-writing with Bendis on Guardians of the Galaxy as Angela is in it and the solicitations, including creative teams for Age of Ultron are blanked out. Axel Alonso said there'd be Miracle Man / Marvel Man news soon and it might also explain why Age of Ultron was pushed back...

... I'm probably a mile off and they are just making a fuss over having Angela... just doesn't seem to justify the amount fuss to me and wonder if its all a smoke screen.

Is it just me, or does the inclusion of Angela in the Marvel universe seem a bit, well, stupid?
I read a bit of Spawn back in the 90's, and was kinda under the impression that her character was intrinsically linked with that 'universe' (I mean, she's a 'Spawn Hunter' ain't she?)

Glad (for many reasons) I'm not reading Age of Ultron.
This smacks a bit of Gaiman giving the finger to McFarlane for no other reason than he can.

To my ever lovin' blue-eyed shame, I've never read classic Iron Man saga 'Demon in a Bottle'.
Just picked up all 9 issues on Comixology's Monday sale for €8.01...it better be good! (Shakes empty beer can at pasty faced iPad reflection)

Quote from: Link Prime on 22 April, 2013, 08:58:04 PM
To my ever lovin' blue-eyed shame, I've never read classic Iron Man saga 'Demon in a Bottle'.
Just picked up all 9 issues on Comixology's Monday sale for €8.01...it better be good! (Shakes empty beer can at pasty faced iPad reflection)

It is. Think it was recently voted 'Best Iron Man story of all-time' in a poll over on CBR, and fickle as the nature of such things be, 'Demon...' is pretty much the character-defining event in Tony's life, bar his origin. Still, shame on you, sir - you'll be telling us next you've never read 'Armor Wars / Stark Wars'!

I won't answer that Greg, for fear of losing face with one of the three forum members whose critical opinion I actually respect!

(Never really dug Iron Man by the way, though to my self loathing shame still own all 13 issues of the 'Heroes Reborn' run... sweet f*ck...)

I've never particularly dug Iron Man (although I have an interest in the current movie franchise). Find 'Demon in a Bottle' and the odd story to be interesting ideas but never particularly well written. I can honestly say I get more pleasure simply looking at covers where he's fighting gorillas.
As for 'Heroes Reborn', I too remember that arc and the Onslaught story responsible (unfortunately). Had a couple of the Iron Man issues myself but it didn't hold my attention. I saw Onslaught Returns or whatever it was called a couple of years back and immediately thought Why?

Quote from: Charlie boy on 22 April, 2013, 11:43:27 PM
I saw Onslaught Returns or whatever it was called a couple of years back and immediately thought Why?

You weren't the only one Charlie.

Quote from: Link Prime on 22 April, 2013, 11:59:08 PM

Quote from: Charlie boy on 22 April, 2013, 11:43:27 PM
I saw Onslaught Returns or whatever it was called a couple of years back and immediately thought Why?

You weren't the only one Charlie.

It just shows how bad a villain Onslaught is. His return couldn't even muster a 'Oh not him again!' It just had people shaking their head.

Quote from: Link Prime on 22 April, 2013, 08:58:04 PM
To my ever lovin' blue-eyed shame, I've never read classic Iron Man saga 'Demon in a Bottle'.
Just picked up all 9 issues on Comixology's Monday sale for €8.01...it better be good! (Shakes empty beer can at pasty faced iPad reflection)

I thought it was a bit gash. Standard iron man fights someone else story with him occasionally saying 'ooh I'm a bit wobbly. Shouldn't have had that fourth martini'. Very little depth, very little impact and the whole solving his alcoholism? A single page montage of him not drinking. It might have had lasting impact for the character but as a stand alone it's a bit weak. 'My reactions are slow. Perhaps I shouldn't have had that Pernod.' Sorry, rubbish.

I'm quite fond of 'Demon in the Bottle' but its very much of its time and needs to be read as such. It is fairly generic superhero fare on one level, but it did things that were very bold and brave for the time. It really pushed the strip forward and its that which I think marks it as such a landmark for the character.

For me though the whole issue was dealt with much better with Denny O'Neill's run a bit later (I always think of it as issues 150 - 200, but Denny O'Neill didn't start until 158 (thank you GCD)). Working off 'Demon in the Bottle' he gave Tony's drinking and the impact it had on his life, far more room and thus dealt with it with a greater depth. Its still standard superhero fare, but then I love standard superhero fare, so all good with me. A very over looked run that one, largely because it does really ride off 'Demon' (to its friends), though I think it made an appearance in that Comic should be good poll Greg mentioned.

Armour Wars was fun but didn't really hold up for me when I read it a wee bit back.

What I like about both 'Demon In A Bottle' and 'Armor Wars' is that they're perfect examples of what works best for 'Iron Man' as a series, and indeed, what distinguishes Iron Man's adventures from those of his peers. Tony is quite literally the engineer of his own fortunes and misfortunes, and drives his own stories in a way that not all superheroes do. I'm sure someone could easily point to some Iron Man stories where any other super-hero could be substituted in, but the best of his stories involve Tony creating - not just armour and businesses, but also situations. He is often the architect of his own problems, which might make him a bit of a dick if he wasn't also so principled. That's what I love about 'Armor Wars' - his bloody-minded pursuit of a point of principle to salve his conscience, even though it alienates him from his allies. (Of course, I also like the fact it features loads of brilliantly-illustrated armoured heroes and villains scrapping. You're really getting bang for your buck - it's like a 'Greatest Hits' of Iron Man.)

Extremis for me

Just heard Deaths Head has popped up in two Marvel Now! titles, Spider-Man and Iron Man. I'm not a Marvel guy usually....but I really must get round to buying these.

I'm practically Marvel-less at the moment too (Don't worry X-Factor, I'll still love ya til you're cancelled in a few months), and loathe Bendis' Marvel stuff almost dismissively, but sweet Jesus did you see Frazer Irving's art on this weeks Uncanny X-Men????

2000AD's loss has been mainstream US comics gain.

Out of interest has anybody been reading Si Spurrier's - X-Men Legacy stuff. I have a little bit of treat money to spend as pay day comes around and want to catch up with a couple of things I've not got yet. One of which is said stuff just about to be released in trade.

It all sounded a bit like his 2000ad work so I've been meaning to check it out but dodgy review keep delaying me doing so. I reckon therefore it trade of bust on this one.

Any thoughts on his work here?

It might be familiar material to most superhero readers - X-Men fans especially - and seems doggedly determined to carve some sort of niche within-but-outside the existing franchise like Journey Into Mystery did recently with the Kid Loki stuff, but I would say if you liked Si's 2k work and don't mind an awful lot of influence worn on sleeves ala BKV, you'll get along with Legacy just fine, my big criticism being it's not as ambitious as the Carey years of the title, though for my money Carey rarely delivered a good payoff on fantastic build-up.  Spurrier might yet deliver on that front so trade waiting might be an idea.

Got the 1st issue of Spurrier's X-Men Legacy for free (Comixology)....was quite alright, but nowhere near attention grabbing enough to make me add it to my pull list.
If reviews continue to be positive i'll probably read it in trade or Comixology digital sale.
Can't really see it being a long runner for Marvel though.

Sorry Si!

Well its currently selling at 28000ish (according to The Beats sales charts, with all the approximation there in) and stuff seems to be up for cancellation around the 21000 mark, based on my dodgy estimations. So it might have a bit more rope.

Still if people like me stopped dithering and took the plunge it'd probably be doing a lot better!

Floppy sales are more or less predetermined by publishers/Diamond, but trades have to compete outside the glorified marketing tool/monopoly that is the direct market via bookstores and online retailers, so arguably you're helping more by buying trades.

A friend has emailed me a picture- apparently an official Marvel ad of some kind- were 52 had been tallied. Any thoughts if Marvel do go ahead with a current DC inspired reboot of their own here?

If it was the red scratches house ad that tallied up to 52, that was a teaser for Marvel Infinity: 13-part weekly comic stories (52 issues per year) featuring various Marvel leading characters and aimed mainly at tablets and devices rather than print.  Basically it means they are making more Wolverine comics.

That was the exact advert I saw!
So I'm guessing the point was just to get publicity of "Are Marvel going to do a big reboo- oh.."
But more Wolverine comics, you say? I don't know where he gets all this free time from. He's everywhere as it is.

Wolverine being in fifty comics a month was actually addressed directly in a story in the regular Wolverine comic book a few years ago, and I think it tells you something when a story that was created to talk directly to internet commentators about an observation they made when they were 8 is considered one of the greatest Wolverine stories ever written.

Reviewers have been pretty unfair with X-Men: Legacy since the first issue, (*cough CBR cough*). It's been my favourite of the Marvel NOW titles for a while though, character development is fantastic, ideas aplenty and all with the usual Spurrier wit and charm.

Is anyone reading Morbius the Living Vampire? Art-droid Richard Elson is on art duties and doing a pretty nice job. Story's very slow to start though, which is unfortunate seeing as it's probably ripe for cancellation soon.

I'm not even sure what Legacy is; haven't picked up a Marvel title for some time, especially X Men (far too many titles and every other year, Marvel say there are too many X titles so they're going to kill off a load of characters. They kill one minor character and bring out a new title for every one they replace in team lineup shake-ups). Is Legacy a story I read about, where Cyclops killed Xavier and is following Magneto now (or is said story already finished and sorted)?
On Wolverine, I remember liking him when I was young (he was a psychopath and killed people with his claws, yeah!) but I do remember something of a Wolverine explosion in the 90s when you couldn't escape him and it put me right off him. Even Claremont apparently left the X titles at the time because Marvel wouldn't let him kill the character off. Now we seem to have Wolverine everywhere again and he looks to be totally unstoppable from any attack (although I did really like Old Man Logan; at the end he starts killing people with claws, yeah!).
Didn't know there was another Morbius title though. Again, I remember a short-lived Morbius title in the 90s. Maybe he's just not meant to be a leading character.

Quote from: Charlie boy on 29 April, 2013, 12:16:22 AM
I'm not even sure what Legacy is; haven't picked up a Marvel title for some time, especially X Men (far too many titles and every other year, Marvel say there are too many X titles so they're going to kill off a load of characters. They kill one minor character and bring out a new title for every one they replace in team lineup shake-ups). Is Legacy a story I read about, where Cyclops killed Xavier and is following Magneto now (or is said story already finished and sorted)?

No idea, this is the first time I've read the book in any form, and at the moment it concerns the extremely powerful David Haller (more commonly known as Legion - the son of Charles Xavier) trying to sort the mess inside his head out and come to terms with his father's legacy. It's all very trippy and chaotic; one issue he's chasing a prophetic vision to Japan whilst fighting off the X-Men - the next he's having a date with one of them on the moon (with some cheeky Watchmen references thrown in to boot).

Quote from: Charlie boy on 29 April, 2013, 12:16:22 AM
Didn't know there was another Morbius title though. Again, I remember a short-lived Morbius title in the 90s. Maybe he's just not meant to be a leading character.

I haven't read that, kinda looks like a bit dated. The new run is about him gone fugitive after fleeing the Raft, fighting off his bloodlust and surviving the streets of the decrepit suburban neighborhood he's escaped to.

Read the first issue of Morbius, didn't like it (Elson art was good though.) It's a bit sad that Marvel's still chasing the vampire dollar (X-Men vs. vampires, turning Jubilee into a vampire, turning Morbius into a moody, angsty urban emo type.) Personally, I like Morbius best when he wears an outfit with a phenomenally huge collar (which unfeasibly spontaneously generated on his person after an experiment with bats.)

Quote from: Greg M. on 29 April, 2013, 06:54:25 AM
It's a bit sad that Marvel's still chasing the vampire dollar (X-Men vs. vampires, turning Jubilee into a vampire, turning Morbius into a moody, angsty urban emo type.)

When they released X-Men Vol 3 a few years back (aka the vampire cash-in) my love affair with the company was well and truly doomed.
Was never the same afterwards. How they could get so many things so wrong (and continually do so) is beyond me.

Quote from: Link Prime on 29 April, 2013, 02:11:21 PM
How they could get so many things so wrong (and continually do so) is beyond me.

...and yet they're still in many respects miles ahead of DC. That's the really scary bit. Some of the DC chopping and changing in the last few months has been a pantomime - Andy Diggle's on Superman? Oh no he isn't! Dan DiDio's behind you... oh, no he isn't!

Quote from: Greg M. on 29 April, 2013, 02:43:30 PM

Quote from: Link Prime on 29 April, 2013, 02:11:21 PM
How they could get so many things so wrong (and continually do so) is beyond me.

...and yet they're still in many respects miles ahead of DC. That's the really scary bit. Some of the DC chopping and changing in the last few months has been a pantomime - Andy Diggle's on Superman? Oh no he isn't! Dan DiDio's behind you... oh, no he isn't!

Yeah I'm a big DCU fan and even I cringe at some of the stuff you hear coming out of there. Admittedly that is only going to affect those of us who put too much value into what the likes of Rich Johnson say, but hey ho, he does seem to have a lot of circumstantial evidence to back him up.

Marvel do seem to have much better control of their creator relations, at least from the outside looking in. The question I guess is whether that's necessarily a good thing, for a corporate entity creating a shared universe. It could be argued that handing the reins of their universe to someone likes of Bendis is the biggest mistake they could have made. I've long believed Bendis is a great comic writer, but he's not a great Superhero writer. His one great book at Marvel (that I've read) was Daredevil and that was barely a superhero title at the time.

Now that raises a lot of questions. Have Marvel really handed him 'the reins' as I say? Is he a bad Superhero writer, or is it that I just don't like his too realistic take on things? Can it be called a mistaken when he is the kinda writer (for good or ill) that gets Guardians of the Galaxy to the top of the charts!

Whatever, the way his imprint has marked the whole of Marvel's line has left me with the impression its a sterile and uninspiring place, by and large, though I should read more before making that judgement! Superheroes are magnificent, fanciful things, the best stories I've read (generally, watch DKR and Watchmen get dragged out... though how realistic either of those is... anyway I'm distracting myself.) are about this very fact. That they are ridiculous and marvellous (not pun intended... well go on just a little...) and that's how they are best used. 'Realistic' Marvel is more driven by events than DC ever was, regardless of the typical view on that and that's another thing that bugs me. Not in and of itself, but trying to get into a book when its tied to a larger story, or having come out of such (as has happened a couple of times with me) is very difficult...

...so what am I saying... actually dunno! They are both rubbish, for different reasons and I'm glad on one hand that I'm finally moving more toward creator owned titles (took me a good old time that one), but saddened on another that doing so has been so damned easy!

Still looking forward to Superior Foes of Spider-man, that title looks tops.

Quote from: Greg M. on 29 April, 2013, 02:43:30 PM
Some of the DC chopping and changing in the last few months has been a pantomime - Andy Diggle's on Superman? Oh no he isn't!

When Andy Diggle of all people walks off a book because of editorial meddling, that's a red light right there.

Although when we talk about mistakes, its all perspective and from their's we're WRONG! So very wrong

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/comics/article/56978-comics-specialty-market-continues-to-grow.html (http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/comics/article/56978-comics-specialty-market-continues-to-grow.html)

via Robot 6 http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2013/04/comics-a-m-direct-market-sales-up-29-in-first-quarter/ (http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2013/04/comics-a-m-direct-market-sales-up-29-in-first-quarter/)

Worth remembering that's 27% up on a market that was already up significantly the year before on the previous year. So you know that whole Nu52 being a failure thing...

It's worth noting that a lot of that "sales growth" is from increases in retailer orders rather than actual verifiable sales to customers.  On the basis of sales alone, Before Watchmen was a success until you actually walk into a comics store and ask yourself why they have shelves full of copies of comics that are supposed to be sold out.  The sales figures are such a shambles that at one point Marvel were buying the covers of unsold DC comics from retailers just so they could have an accurate idea of how much their competition were actually selling.

Marvel can get things very right in terms of movies and DC spent most of the 90's creating a cracking animated universe yet neither seem to be able to sort out their bread and butter comic book titles.
The variation in the quality of their output is staggering - there's no consumer confidence that a Marvel or DC book will offer a good read or value for money.

For all the marketing power behind the New 52 and Marvel Now, the greatest recent Universe reboot has come from Valiant. And they've done it by creating a small number of books that are a bloody good read.

Yeah, while the Diamond figures of orders into shops and sell through are definitely two very different things, that has always been the case and so the year to year comparisons are by and large valid, I'd guess. On top of that graphic novel numbers are up almost as much as floppies, again implying that there's more money out there as they are less victim to the gimmicks that can drive floppie sales up

Though there are a lot more variants and the like these days, that might well leave more product on the shelves (or moved to discount bins) the fact that the market is healthy is also supported by news that the number of comic shops is increasing again, I do need a reference for that but can't for the life of me think where it was I read it.

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 29 April, 2013, 03:48:51 PM
Marvel do seem to have much better control of their creator relations, at least from the outside looking in. The question I guess is whether that's necessarily a good thing, for a corporate entity creating a shared universe.

The creator relations element is definitely an area in which I see Marvel as significantly ahead: true, I am a Marvel universe fan and not without bias, but I do get the impression they're flat-out better employers and managers of their talent. Certainly, they are very writer-driven, vs. DC's very editorially-driven model. Still, as you rightly say, Colin, how much does that matter to the average reader who isn't a frequenter of comics news sites? There is, after all, nothing wrong with strong editorial mandates and control - it's just when editorial can't seem to make up its mind that things look wobbly.

That said, one of Marvel's biggest weaknesses is that it has carefully trained its readers to be only interested in stories and titles that 'count' (i.e, are connected to events and indeed the saga of the Marvel universe itself.) As such, the company finds itself in a vicious cycle of increasingly homogenised product - for the next six months, the villain in every title will be Norman Osborn / Skrulls / Ultron (delete as appropriate) - and then gets surprised when people respond well to titles like Mark Waid's Daredevil. Similarly, the constant need to 'bring the X-Men into the main Marvel universe, mix and merge 'em with other teams' is, to me, absolutely disastrous to the whole concept of the X-Men - it destroys the X-Men's brand identity. But then, that's the other problem Marvel have - because every book is now literally an Avengers or X-Men (or both) title, then slapping 'Avengers' or 'X-Men' onto a book is no longer a guarantee of sales. By over-extending both lines, they've successfully eroded the sales power of both - which I guess links in to what JamesC was saying about Valiant having a small but solid core of titles. (Haven't read any of 'em myself, but the principle is sound, and harks back to Marvel in the 80s when there were 3 X-Men titles and 2 Avengers ones.)

I think it was Marvel's bankruptcy and sale to Toy Biz in the 1990s that made the reconstruction of the editorial offices a necessity in the eyes of the company's new owners - DC, on the other hand, can't actually fail because they're bankrolled by WB, so there will never be any push to change the management structure to any significant degree.
Alan Grant has been rather vocal about the rise of frustrated fanboys in the DC offices who couldn't make it as creators so decided to pull strings behind the scenes to get the comics they wanted to the extent they actively ignored their bosses instructions and fired writers like Grant, Marv Wolfman and Dan Jurgens from successful titles purely because they weren't yes-men.  If we take at face value Warren Ellis' veiled comments about how misguided a lot of the criticism aimed at Dan DiDio is, it suggests not much has changed.

Quote from: Greg M. on 29 April, 2013, 05:50:06 PM
the constant need to 'bring the X-Men into the main Marvel universe, mix and merge 'em with other teams' is, to me, absolutely disastrous to the whole concept of the X-Men - it destroys the X-Men's brand identity. But then, that's the other problem Marvel have - because every book is now literally an Avengers or X-Men (or both) title, then slapping 'Avengers' or 'X-Men' onto a book is no longer a guarantee of sales. By over-extending both lines, they've successfully eroded the sales power of both

An accurate observation Gregory.

When I think back to where the X-Men were 20- 30 years ago it genuinely saddens me.
There 'X universe' had / has more than enough of its own mythology & characters to take place outside or at least on the periphery of the mainstream Marvel universe, and that's how it should have remained.

Some key aspects that 'ruined things' in my view;
- First & foremost; having Wolverine join The Avengers. Abominable in concept, execution and continuation.
- Sidelining Professor X for years.
- As mentioned, overexposure of key characters (Wolverine again being the chief culprit).
- Bastardisation of previously fan favourite characters (it's hard to remain a fan when you actively despise the majority of the protagonists).
- House of M (a disastrous misstep from what Morrison had achieved until that point) and its aftermath (The ridiculous '198' concept).
- Over-saturation of not just characters & concepts, but the actual comics themselves (ie multiple shipping of a title every month, multiple titles featuring the same characters but achieving vapid meaninglessness).
- Event after event.

Etc etc
Ok, mini-rant over.

Anybody else here remember the great-for-all-the-wrong-reasons Wolverine quote "I'm the best there is at what I do... And what I do ain't nice." ?
I also remember a period in the 90s where every X artist made a point of drawing no smoking signs in the background of the X mansion- just so Wolverine could be seen standing up front smoking a cigar. Take that, no-smoking signs! He's a badass!
X Men story wise I remember Age of Apocalypse having its moments but find Executioner's Song being the better of the two (with some fantastic artwork by a number of artists). And I know Onslaught was mentioned a while ago in this thread but does anybody else remember how Wolverine looked in that? Recovering from Magneto's attack on his adamantium bones left Wolverine looking like a big dog.

My favourite sort-of-crossover/event in Marvel comics was 'Acts of Vengeance' in which a bunch of super villains decided that the reason they always failed in battles against their arch-nemesis heroes was because of over familiarity. They all met up at Doc Doom's pad and decided to swap foes. Sort of like 'Strangers on a Train' in the Marvel universe.

That's interesting to me because I'd never heard of it before now but it sounds very much like the revealed back story of Old Man Logan where the villains unite and its Mysterio who takes the X Men down. How long ago was this? I might keep an eye open for the collected material if its available.

Quote from: Charlie boy on 30 April, 2013, 05:52:53 PM
I also remember a period in the 90s where every X artist made a point of drawing no smoking signs in the background of the X mansion- just so Wolverine could be seen standing up front smoking a cigar. Take that, no-smoking signs! He's a badass!

Wolverine is not allowed to smoke cigars any more. Joe Quesada flat-out banned it.

Quote from: Charlie boy on 30 April, 2013, 05:52:53 PMTake that, no-smoking signs! He's a badass!

I like that Wolverine can't get cancer, so he decides to give it to everyone else.

Greg M,  Thanks for that mate,
I actually didn't know that Wolverine wasn't allowed to smoke cigars anymore in comics....It's a bit PC gone mad is it not ??!!....I'm not advocating smoking ( despite being a smoker myself ) but.......

From a purely 'logical' point of view I find this crazy !!...
I understand that we don't want to 'encourage' people / especially children and teens to smoke,  and therefore don't want them to emulate their heroes / characters they see in Comics, so don't let kids see him smoking...OK...I kind of get that...
BUT....Wolverine's body actually heals any wounds, due to his mutant molecular cell regeneration, so therefore the carcinogens in tobacco smoke wouldn't do him any harm.....
BUT allow them to see him tearing baddies limb from limb with his adamantium claws......Thats OK ??  ::)
Just saying that it's a bit of a 'worrying' trend advocating violence and condemming smoking ........
Whats next ??...Judge Dredd going for the 'arbitration route' ??
Anybody agree ??

Quote from: Sideshow Bob on 30 April, 2013, 06:58:54 PM
I understand that we don't want to 'encourage' people / especially children and teens to smoke,  and therefore don't want them to emulate their heroes / characters they see in Comics, so don't let kids see him smoking...OK...I kind of get that...
BUT....Wolverine's body actually heals any wounds, due to his mutant molecular cell regeneration, so therefore the carcinogens in tobacco smoke wouldn't do him any harm.....
BUT allow them to see him tearing baddies limb from limb with his adamantium claws......Thats OK ??  ::)

Well, this is it. It's all right for Wolverine to [spoiler]travel back in time and slaughter an innocent and heroic man for accidentally making a naughty robot[/spoiler] (spoilers since this was just the other week) or otherwise indiscriminately slay baddies, but God forbid he have a sly puff. I believe Joe Q lost his grandfather due to a smoking-related illness, hence his understandably strong feelings on this.

Quote from: Sideshow Bob on 30 April, 2013, 06:58:54 PM
Greg M,  Thanks for that mate,
I actually didn't know that Wolverine wasn't allowed to smoke cigars anymore in comics....It's a bit PC gone mad is it not ??!!....I'm not advocating smoking ( despite being a smoker myself ) but.......

From a purely 'logical' point of view I find this crazy !!...
I understand that we don't want to 'encourage' people / especially children and teens to smoke,  and therefore don't want them to emulate their heroes / characters they see in Comics, so don't let kids see him smoking...OK...I kind of get that...
BUT....Wolverine's body actually heals any wounds, due to his mutant molecular cell regeneration, so therefore the carcinogens in tobacco smoke wouldn't do him any harm.....
BUT allow them to see him tearing baddies limb from limb with his adamantium claws......Thats OK ??  ::)
Just saying that it's a bit of a 'worrying' trend advocating violence and condemming smoking ........
Whats next ??...Judge Dredd going for the 'arbitration route' ??
Anybody agree ??

The dangers of smoking warning was another problem David Lynch had with his Mulholland Drive pilot (the other being the studio trying to force him to feature aliens). He was surprised when they had no problem with a scene-shot for comic effect- where a hitman has to kill an innocent cleaner he has accidentally shot in the arse but their problem was his lighting a cigarette after doing this. Apparently Lynch argued the lighting up into the scene by stating he was a bad guy killing at will, so smoking dangers wouldn't bother him. I don't think this is actually that rare a thing in film now, I'm sure a lot of studios only wanted villains and anti-heroes smoking for a while regardless of the film's certificate.
As for Bear's point on passive smoking, I'd never actually considered that even after so many years! I just remember laughing (on spotting the no smoking signs in the background) at how Marvel wanted to show Wolverine to be the big rebel in such a manner. A part of me was always waiting for the brief plot point where he would set off a fire alarm despite their being no fire and then shrugging his shoulders when pulled up for doing so.

Thanks Greg,
Didn't know that about his grandfather so it's understandable from his 'personal' point of view....And I also do recognise the dangers from smoking and passive smoking....And also the dangers from Alcohol ( far worse in terms of health and personal relationships ), drugs, Motor Vehicle emmissions etc...The list is long for various things that are hazardous to your health...
The fact is though, despite my sympathy for his loss, he is taking his own personal viewpoint, and foisting it on millions of people worldwide who read the comics....
Commendable on the one hand ( with great power comes great responsibility ), but on the other hand smacks a little of extremism ...I decide he can't smoke ( because it's bad for you / those around you ) but it's ok to allow the violence because it's a comic ??...Surely you can't have it both ways ??.....
Interesting stuff !!

I think it's less PC in action and more a genuine backlash in recent years against the enormous sense of entitlement that someone can honestly believe it's fine for one person to make everyone else in the room stink like shit and as an added bonus, here's some lung cancer.
It's worth remembering that smoking is both immensely unhealthy and deeply unpopular with non-smokers, which is why when Wolverine/Gambit/Nick Fury were banned from lighting up in their comics no-one really gave a shit.

Professor James T Bear....
You are correct sir...Even as a smoker, I remember objecting strenuously several years ago, when at a Dinner Dance someone decided to 'light up' between courses while others' were still eating... I thought it disgusting and showed a total disregard to anyone elses' views or comfort...
Even now as a smoker, I'm quite happy to go outside the pub / restuarant or wherever to have a smoke, and don't smoke in any room in my own home apart from my own den / guitar room......and even then with the window open...
I was just trying to highlight the point that while smoking has been banned from the comics ( due to reasons mentioned ) but extreme graphic violence is still OK.....
I don't really want to see any restriction in what can be depicted in the comic form ( provided it is age appropriate and by that I'm referring to Pornography) I do think it's a first step on a 'slippery slope' to censorship of all things that don't meet the 'general' consensus...
Perhaps this discussion may be more appropriate for another thread.....Certainly some interesting thoughts here so far !!
Cheers... :D

Ps  :  Is notorious smoker John Constantine still smoking in his graphic comics ???....Not seen one of his for a while ??

I don't care whether Wolverine smokes or not. Out of all the aspects of the character, smoking is fairly dull. I just don't like censorship. Say they wanted to show Wolvie smoking just to piss everyone off, to be an asshole, and he were to point out that his healing factor protects him and he didn't care about anyone else in the room, I don't see any reason why that couldn't be published. Other than, say, Marvel didn't want to see one of their most popular characters acting like a detestable horrible human being. Marvel would NEVER do that.

Quote from: Charlie boy on 30 April, 2013, 07:25:13 PM
A part of me was always waiting for the brief plot point where he would set off a fire alarm despite their being no fire and then shrugging his shoulders when pulled up for doing so.

Something tells me your memory ain't in CGC 9.8 condition anymore Charlie Boy- didn't that happen in your favourite x-over 'X-Cutioners Song' (X-Force Vol 1 # 17....I think)?
Wolvie set off a fire suppression system after lighting up on Graymalkin and got sprayed with foam.

Quote from: El Pops on 30 April, 2013, 08:24:45 PM
I don't care whether Wolverine smokes or not. Out of all the aspects of the character, smoking is fairly dull. I just don't like censorship. Say they wanted to show Wolvie smoking just to piss everyone off, to be an asshole, and he were to point out that his healing factor protects him and he didn't care about anyone else in the room, I don't see any reason why that couldn't be published.

Pretty much sums up how I feel on the topic Pops, plus y'know, it's a comic about a 200 year old Canadian dwarf with a metal skeleton, so doesn't really have any bearing on say, "reality".

During Frank Tieri's run there was a pretty hilarious scene where Wolvie lit a cigarette using the soon to be corpse of an immolated soldier / hired goon.
Ah, the good old days.

Quote from: Sideshow Bob on 30 April, 2013, 08:12:55 PM
Ps  :  Is notorious smoker John Constantine still smoking in his graphic comics ???....Not seen one of his for a while ??

Original Constantine is sadly no longer with us, but was unrepentent to the end.  But then indirectly killing everyone around him was sort of his thing.

As to NuConstantine, who gives a shit.

Thanks Tordelback,
Didn't know about John Constantine ( original ) being over....
It's been ages since I read anything of his, so obviously missed out on his 'ending'....
Is it worthwhile enough to pick up a couple of volumes...?..or the entire series ??

Sorry, for the 'smoking thing' guys.....it was actually a back handed swipe at 'censorship in comics' I was aiming at,  and only mentioned it after Greg M said that Wolverine was banned from smoking by Joe Quesada due to his own personal stance...
Cheers.

Quote from: Sideshow Bob on 30 April, 2013, 10:25:31 PM
Sorry, for the 'smoking thing' guys.....it was actually a back handed swipe at 'censorship in comics' I was aiming at,  and only mentioned it after Greg M said that Wolverine was banned from smoking by Joe Quesada due to his own personal stance...
Cheers.

Nothing to apologise for I'd say Bob.
Any swipe at unnecessary / pedantic comic censorship (back or front handed) is A-Ok in my book.

Quote from: Link Prime on 30 April, 2013, 09:47:59 PM
Something tells me your memory ain't in CGC 9.8 condition anymore Charlie Boy- didn't that happen in your favourite x-over 'X-Cutioners Song' (X-Force Vol 1 # 17....I think)?
Wolvie set off a fire suppression system after lighting up on Graymalkin and got sprayed with foam.

Ha if that really did happen, only a small part of me must have remembered it! Still, that's not quite him setting off a fire alarm (when there's no fire) before nonchalantly saying "Just felt like it" and suppressing a bad-boy smirk as Xavier shouts at him in his office. And a part of me was sure it was X-cutioner's Song, but I got to thinking "But wouldn't it have to be X-ecutioner's Song?" so I went and spelled it Executioner instead. But hey- I remember a kick-ass fight on the moon at the end of said story (though you'll probably tell me that was another story now, you no good...!).
On Constantine smoking, I don't know the answer to that. I remember Jamie Delano tweeting how he hoped the run ended with Constantine coughing his lungs out after lighting up one last time, but I haven't looked at the new version myself.

Quote from: Charlie boy on 30 April, 2013, 10:49:13 PM
But hey- I remember a kick-ass fight on the moon at the end of said story (though you'll probably tell me that was another story now, you no good...!).

You remember correctly good sir- was indeed a great moon based finale.

Some great art throughout that whole storyline too...Jae Lee, Andy Kubert, Brandon Peterson & Greg Capullo.
Never heard of any of those guys since!  ;)

Capullo really shone in that. I think some of his best work appeared during that run.

Quote from: Charlie boy on 30 April, 2013, 11:18:10 PM
Capullo really shone in that. I think some of his best work appeared during that run.

Agreed.
Colouring was a bit palaeolithic back then if I recall though.
Would love to read a recoloured version of this story using modern techniques.

Capullo quit Marvel shortly afterwards for Spawn didn't he? Bit of a waste of the mans talents.

He did indeed head to Spawn and took on McFarlane's style* for it as I recall. So yeah, bit of a waste...

*by this I mean a young teenager will suddenly look to be aged around 100 on smiling because the face becomes a mass of wrinkles to show 'detail'.

Quote from: El Pops on 30 April, 2013, 08:24:45 PMI just don't like censorship.

And that is a fair stance to have about any creative medium, but there's a difference between editorial direction and censorship, as Joe Q published a great many comics featuring smoking on the page, most notably Fury and Punisher.  You could portray it if you gave a reasonable explanation why it had to be there, much as plenty of characters came back from the dead despite JQ also publicly issuing a directive that there be no resurrections on his watch.  The very next issue of X-Men, Magneto got better from having his head chopped off.  Also Psylocke.  And Xorn for some reason.

Nu Constantine seems to be smoking in the appearances I've seen in Sword of Sorcery, though I can't say if this is indicative of his portrayal elsewhere.

Quote from: Professor James T Bear on 01 May, 2013, 12:31:34 AM

Quote from: El Pops on 30 April, 2013, 08:24:45 PMI just don't like censorship.

And that is a fair stance to have about any creative medium, but there's a difference between editorial direction and censorship, as Joe Q published a great many comics featuring smoking on the page, most notably Fury and Punisher.  You could portray it if you gave a reasonable explanation why it had to be there, much as plenty of characters came back from the dead despite JQ also publicly issuing a directive that there be no resurrections on his watch.  The very next issue of X-Men, Magneto got better from having his head chopped off.  Also Psylocke.  And Xorn for some reason.

Nu Constantine seems to be smoking in the appearances I've seen in Sword of Sorcery, though I can't say if this is indicative of his portrayal elsewhere.

I didn't know somebody had actually said no resurrections. I think that should have got some extra publicity.
As of Constantine, haven't even looked for a new issue but is it 'mature readers' still? Last I heard on the subject was how DC were merging the standard universe with Vertigo again.

Not read any NuConstantine. One to avoid?

Like I said mate, haven't even looked for it. Though to be fair that could sound like I'm having a bigger go at it than I am; most trips to the big comic shops now are more of a browse around and I'll wait for a collected volume of something to appear if it looked interesting. Part of me thinks I should have started the Waid run on DareDevil when it started but I can happily wait til few more TPBKs appear before buying.

Quote from: Charlie boy on 01 May, 2013, 12:36:59 PM
Part of me thinks I should have started the Waid run on DareDevil when it started but I can happily wait til few more TPBKs appear before buying.

Buy ever last bit you can lay your grubby paws on IMMEDIATELY, its brilliant and you won't regret it (says the man who waits for the collections), but it really is.

Quote from: Charlie boy on 01 May, 2013, 12:29:54 PMI didn't know somebody had actually said no resurrections. I think that should have got some extra publicity.

It was pretty well-publicised in the comics press - moreso than the non-smoking edict.  Try Googling Quesada's name and "dead means dead" or "dead is dead" and you'll find plenty of articles on the matter.

Quote from: Charlie boy on 01 May, 2013, 12:29:54 PMAs of Constantine, haven't even looked for a new issue but is it 'mature readers' still?

Nu Constantine is in theory an "all ages" title - which for DC these days means that they only show graphic evisceration, stabbing, dismemberment and rape when the story needs it, and not just on every other page like their grittier titles like Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman do.

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 01 May, 2013, 12:59:24 PM

Quote from: Charlie boy on 01 May, 2013, 12:36:59 PM
Part of me thinks I should have started the Waid run on DareDevil when it started but I can happily wait til few more TPBKs appear before buying.

Buy ever last bit you can lay your grubby paws on IMMEDIATELY, its brilliant and you won't regret it (says the man who waits for the collections), but it really is.

See my 'problem' with it was DareDevil has always been my favourite character. I hadn't picked it up for years until the Kevin Smith run, then I stopped picking it up again once that finished. I'd still look at the odd latest issue when in a comic shop and the last I saw was that Devil's Hand story were the Hand were corrupting him. Then Black Panther looked to be in control of Hell's Kitchen, and a mini-series appeared to be starting where Matt was wandering a small US town. Then all of a sudden, it's swashbuckling DareDevil again and I had no idea to whether the mini series had ended and led to this (which seemed unlikely), or whether the continuity was just altered. I know it's been getting rave reviews since being pulled away from the gritty element Miller brought in, but I just don't like the idea of his whole area and outlook suddenly being changed without full explanation (such a fanboy...). Every time I pick up a collected volume of the latest run, I'm thinking "I could really enjoy this... But I could be wondering how it came to this at the back of my mind throughout!"

Quote from: Professor James T Bear on 01 May, 2013, 01:09:50 PM
It was pretty well-publicised in the comics press - moreso than the non-smoking edict.  Try Googling Quesada's name and "dead means dead" or "dead is dead" and you'll find plenty of articles on the matter.

I'll look into that because it's clearly another odd one that has slipped me by. Wasn't Quesada pretty much charging the Marvel Knights part when that first appeared with- rather oddly- zombie Punisher (which they then did again in a way only recently with Franken-Castle)?
Still, as you'd said earlier, this no resurrection rule looks to have been ignored on a number of occasions.

Quote from: Charlie boy on 01 May, 2013, 01:15:22 PM
Then all of a sudden, it's swashbuckling DareDevil again and I had no idea to whether the mini series had ended and led to this (which seemed unlikely), or whether the continuity was just altered. I know it's been getting rave reviews since being pulled away from the gritty element Miller brought in, but I just don't like the idea of his whole area and outlook suddenly being changed without full explanation (such a fanboy...). Every time I pick up a collected volume of the latest run, I'm thinking "I could really enjoy this... But I could be wondering how it came to this at the back of my mind throughout!"

That's kinda the brilliant bit of the series, he's trying to breeze along telling everyone that he's fine, he's over the whole going a bit doolally everytime, oh you know a girlfriend dies, or gets put into a mental institute, or a crime-lord blows up his life, OR he becomes a crime-lord controlled by a demonic overlord, he's past all that, better now and off having romping great adventures. Everyone else, including the readers, are looking on, trying to work out whether he is or not and his previous mental instability hangs over him and the series like the Sword of Damocles. Its been handled with an incredible deft touch by Waid, completely acknowledging what's gone before, while letting it still be something refreshing and new, well since the 140's anyway. Miller's work was the logical development on the work of others like Jim Shooter starting to take him down some pretty dark routes prior to his lauded run.

Oh and the way it uses the comic form is absolutely brilliant too. AND it looks glorious almost uniformly...

...go on now, you owe it too yourself!

... You know what, I'll definitely buy the first collection in the next couple of weeks (but on your head be it!!). It could certainly be interesting to look in and wonder if he is fine or still greatly affected by various events. I just hope they never bring up the "Kingpin is blinded! The irony! Oh, now he can see again" plot from a few years back.

Quote from: Charlie boy on 01 May, 2013, 03:28:31 PM
I just hope they never bring up the "Kingpin is blinded! The irony! Oh, now he can see again" plot from a few years back.

I can't remember if Waid has ever directly stated that the Kingpin is being given a well-deserved rest from 'Daredevil', but it certainly seems like he is. (The Spider-Man office seems to have reclaimed him for a bit, but he's been mercifully low-profile.) Thank goodness too... if he's ever to have any impact again, he needs a sustained break.

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 01 May, 2013, 12:59:24 PM

Quote from: Charlie boy on 01 May, 2013, 12:36:59 PM
Part of me thinks I should have started the Waid run on DareDevil when it started but I can happily wait til few more TPBKs appear before buying.

Buy ever last bit you can lay your grubby paws on IMMEDIATELY, its brilliant and you won't regret it (says the man who waits for the collections), but it really is.

Seconded.  It's extraordinary, clever, amusing and enthralling.  Although possibly the recent storyline where Daredevil[spoiler] was decapitated[/spoiler] may have pushed things a bit far into the kerayzee for my tastes.

Quote from: Charlie boy on 01 May, 2013, 03:28:31 PM
... You know what, I'll definitely buy the first collection in the next couple of weeks (but on your head be it!!).

Gulp, now I feel the pressure... no seriously, its great.

Just checked out a preview of Wood & Coipels X-Men (Vol 4?) #1 there....looks mighty purty.
I'm very tempted to give it a go (and give Marvel a few quid considering they're down about half a trillion since I purged my pull list), but FFS another article on CBR is detailing the fact this book will be part of the Bendis driven x-over (featuring the 'super shit idea' X-Men from the past) within a couple months.

Strike 22 Marvel No(w)!
(Ok, I admit I liked the first few issues off Superior Spider-Man, but I'm already 3 behind and that's just cause I haven't been to a comic shop in 2 bleedin weeks!)

Quote from: Link Prime on 03 May, 2013, 12:01:40 AM
Just checked out a preview of Wood & Coipels X-Men (Vol 4?) #1 there....looks mighty purty.
I'm very tempted to give it a go (and give Marvel a few quid considering they're down about half a trillion since I purged my pull list), but FFS another article on CBR is detailing the fact this book will be part of the Bendis driven x-over (featuring the 'super shit idea' X-Men from the past) within a couple months.

Strike 22 Marvel No(w)!
(Ok, I admit I liked the first few issues off Superior Spider-Man, but I'm already 3 behind and that's just cause I haven't been to a comic shop in 2 bleedin weeks!)

More and more, I find myself only popping into comic shops to look at the toys or to look at the TPBKs. I still read the emails I receive off Marvel telling me the latest but very few stories etc being mentioned by any company are able to have me go out and start buying things on a regular basis again.
And Colin_YNWA, you should indeed be feeling pressure (as should TordelBack; I'm looking at you both equally on the DareDevil recommend here). If I don't like the purchase, I'll be on this forum 24/7, looking for new posts from you both. Even if I agree 100% with what you are writing, I'll be an arsey little troll-like character saying I disagree with you entirely, writing ridiculous comments even I don't believe in and release a sigh of disbelief on reading! My justification is even I look at the price of some collections now and think "That's a bit much!" I fear I'm turning into my parents, who tried to discourage me from collecting DareDevil when I was a kid because the price went from £1 to £1.35 (apparently I was being ripped off).

Quote from: Alski on 23 April, 2013, 06:15:47 PM
Extremis for me

Me too.
It's €5.34 for the six issue set on good ol Comixology today.

bit of a throwback to yesteryear but was at a carboot today and a guy had crates of marvel comics mostly uk reprints etc. until i dug a bit and found some copies of Jims Lee run on X-men.

heres the crowning glory!

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/3d3aa88fb78e8f8e784d5d9d6bdadb8f/tumblr_mmbv487m4D1sp0kzeo1_500.jpg)

I fondly remember that run. I think issue three was Claremont's departure after the opening Magneto story had been wrapped up. It did carry on being good for a while after.

Kieron Gillen sale on the Comixology / Marvel App.
Am debating weather to spend €20 on his 'Journey into Mystery' run, despite universally positive reviews.

I can vouch for his 20 issue 'Uncanny X-Men' Vol 2 run though...the most enjoyable X-Men run since Grant Morrison's. Give it a go.

Ok, lets get somethin straight: I actively dislike Marvel comics for many, many reasons (pricing, fortnightly shipping frequency, paper so thin it could only have been invented by Victor Von Doom, f*cking up beloved childhood characters etc etc)

Like any two-bit nerd that doesn't stop me hypocritically buying some of their stuff (namely 'X-Factor' & 'Superior Spider-Man'), but I have managed to cut pretty much everything else (despite being very tempted by Spurrier's Legacy, Irving's run on UXM and a few others).

One of the easiest cuts earlier this year was 'Wolverine & The X-Men', due to a glut of filler material, poorly conceived new team members ('Shark Girl' anyone?), the titular character becoming a loathsome ubiquitous caricature of himself, and last but not least; 'Dog Logan' (even if you were to accept 'Origins' for what it is, why the f-ck *bile rising* did they make 'Dog Logan' someone other than Sabretooth???).

Anyway, to cut to the chase: I was in my LCS last night and flicked through the latest issue of 'Wolverine & The X-Men'. They've brought back the f-cking SIEGE PERILOUS.

I handed over my €3.99 there and then like a good little zombie.  :'(

I hate to be that guy, but it sounds like you love Marvel comics.

I'm like that but for anything featuring Deaths Head. How moralistic we all are.

Quote from: Link Prime on 14 June, 2013, 10:20:08 AM
Anyway, to cut to the chase: I was in my LCS last night and flicked through the latest issue of 'Wolverine & The X-Men'. They've brought back the f-cking SIEGE PERILOUS.

I handed over my €3.99 there and then like a good little zombie.  :'(

I do think we're of a similar vintage, Link, 'cos I'm like that for the Reavers.

Rich Johnson was waxing lyrical about the Australia, Reavers, Marc Silvestri era as if it was a golden age and that really surprised me. Back in the day that was the time I started to loose heart and love for the X-Men. After Fall of the Mutants the book started its long slide downhill. Ending for me in the Jim Lee X-Men (title not when he first started) which finally did for me.

Mind I'm no one to listen too I can't even stomach the Byrne stuff these days and struggle to make it through the Sienkewicz New Mutants, however good it looked!

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 14 June, 2013, 05:59:56 PM
Rich Johnson was waxing lyrical about the Australia, Reavers, Marc Silvestri era as if it was a golden age and that really surprised me.

It's probably my favourite era of the X-Men - I'm especially fond of the 'everything falling to pieces' period post-Inferno through to the Siege Perilous / Wolverine's crucifixion / the spectacularly short-lived Muir Island 'team'. Definitely up there with the Mutant Massacre period and aftermath.

At the time the 190s Romita stuff up to the end of the post Mutant Massacre stuff was the lodestone for me, even befuddled with the odd Secret Wars II nonsense it had it all, Nimrod, Sentinels when Sentinels were hard, Hellfire Club, Marauders, Sabretooth, Brood, Juggernaut, those curious old fellas, Freedom Force, Storm actually being cool rather than annoying. There was a real sense of jeopardy in them days too.

Arh those were the days (never, ever try to read it... NEVER!)

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 14 June, 2013, 09:10:58 PM
There was a real sense of jeopardy in them days too.

Yeah. Might just have been my naivete and/or the simpler times, but there was a point around the Mutant Massacre storyline where Claremont just kept piling the punishment onto Wolverine to the point where I honestly thought they were thinking of killing him off, or at least writing him out for an extended period.

Cheers

Jim

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 14 June, 2013, 09:10:58 PM
Storm actually being cool rather than annoying.

Mohawk Storm was the best Storm. I could go off on a mini-rant about how badly Marvel's greatest female character (well, ok, tie with Kitty) has been treated post-Claremont: it's a well-worn cliché about how much Claremont loved his X-ladies, but few have even come close to doing her justice. (Kieron Gillen's moment where she asked Cyclops's Extinction Team for a show of hands as to who'd ever been a supervillain was a brief flash of squandered greatness.)

Re: Claremont's plans for Wolverine - I dunno if he was considering killing Wolverine off at that point, but if he's to be believed, it was definitely something he had in mind before he left abruptly circa '91.

Quote from: Greg M. on 14 June, 2013, 09:28:19 PM
Mohawk Storm was the best Storm. I could go off on a mini-rant about how badly Marvel's greatest female character (well, ok, tie with Kitty) has been treated post-Claremont: it's a well-worn cliché about how much Claremont loved his X-ladies, but few have even come close to doing her justice.

Yep. For all his much-derided verbosity, Claremont's work with many of his female characters, especially during this period, was great. It's hard to believe now that there was a time when not every character in the superhero pantheon was as hard as nails, but the Alan Davis-drawn issue where the (pre-Ninja) Psylocke manages to not get disembowelled by Sabretooth was just fantastic.

Cheers

Jim

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 June, 2013, 09:37:07 PM
It's hard to believe now that there was a time when not every character in the superhero pantheon was as hard as nails, but the Alan Davis-drawn issue where the (pre-Ninja) Psylocke manages to not get disembowelled by Sabretooth was just fantastic.

I totally concur. Davis's choreography in that issue is just beautiful, and as both you and Colin have said, the sense of peril was at a peak - Claremont had just effectively taken out Nightcrawler, Colossus and Shadowcat, so all bets (no pun intended) were off.

Quote from: Professor James T Bear on 14 June, 2013, 03:34:59 PM
I hate to be that guy, but it sounds like you love Marvel comics.

Well what do you know??? It's kinda like...

*Clancy Wiggum voice*..l...Yeah, I did kinda trail off there didn't I....

Quote from: Greg M. on 14 June, 2013, 05:35:56 PM

I do think we're of a similar vintage, Link, 'cos I'm like that for the Reavers.

Colin & Jim must be from a vineyard close by too.

I of course concur with all rose-tinted comments made above, a classic era with great characters and yes, a genuine sense of peril / 'anything can happen' dizziness.

I read the first dozen or so issues of Claremont's 'X-Men Forever' a few years back, and he does indeed give Logan the ol' Dirtnap right from the get-go.
Whether things really would have played out like this if Clearmont had stayed onboard...I have my doubts.

Quote from: Link Prime on 14 June, 2013, 09:56:40 PM
Whether things really would have played out like this if Clearmont had stayed onboard...I have my doubts.

I can believe he would have wanted to, but not that he would have been allowed to.

Quote from: Greg M. on 14 June, 2013, 09:57:57 PM

Quote from: Link Prime on 14 June, 2013, 09:56:40 PM
Whether things really would have played out like this if Clearmont had stayed onboard...I have my doubts.

I can believe he would have wanted to, but not that he would have been allowed to.

Yeah, guess The Suits started becoming self-aware round that time.

On a related X note, I didn't pick up Brian Woods new re-launch, but have heard from two very reliable friends that its the dogs bollocks. You give it a go?

What, you think I buy any new X-Men related title? You think I just bend over and allow Nick Lowe to deliver his mutated payload?

Well, yes. You're right. Of course I do.

I thought it was good. Not totally blow-yer-socks off amazing, but solid. Quite traditional, nice use of an established Morrison-era character.

Wasn't Nick Lowe that guy who started answering letter columns in all kinds of painfully unfunny ways a few years back. I can see why you like him.  ;)

Thanks for the mini-review, I think 'Solid' probably isn't enough reason to cough up 8 quid a month in these austere times, so will trade / digital sale wait (assuming it doesn't end up being critically mauled, like the two current X-Force books).

I think it will certainly be better than them. Cable and XF can be a bit plodding but acceptable, whilst UXF has turned into such a bizarre mix of the tiresomely juvenile (naughty words blacked-out in every other piece of Betsy dialogue) and the intriguingly eccentric that I'm not convinced it has a clue what it is - neither, as such, do I.

Well damn you Marvel. I have a feeling that they might be cancelling the two titles I'm picking up regularly, the December solicitations suggest both FF and X-Men Legacy might be getting to the end of their respective runs and sales do nothing to dissuade me from that view, nor does Mike Allred seeming to move to a new Silver Surfer title if rumours are to be believed.

At one point I was up to three on-goings and Marvel amazingly was in danger of getting more pulls than DC. Alas Superior Foes not being the comic I wanted and the possible end of the other two mean my brief Marvel revival might be over and I'm make to picking up just DD trades again.

Boo Hiss...

On the plus side, it does indeed seem likely we'll be getting a Dan Slott / Mike Allred Silver Surfer comic, which to me is pretty great news - Allred's wonderful art paired up with the writing of a chap who seems to channel the very spirit of classic Marveldom. Very interested to see what kind of direction they'll go in.

Yeah I was thinking I might try that. I haven't really read much Dan Slott and know him from his mixed reputation on Spider-man. Mike Allred makes it tempting but I'm not a massive Surfer fan. I've got the first 12 issues of his 80s (was it 90s) run by Englehart and Marshal which I absolutely love (which is weird cos normally I don't get on at all with Englehart) but that aside the character doesn't really appeal.

So the question is Allred's art enough to tempt me to try it?

The first Essential volume of Silver Surfer is great fun, reading like a parody of what people who don't read comics probably think comics are really like, with the character draped across his surfboard as it floats around the world going "woe is me".  Daffy, daffy bollocks of the highest order.

I don't think I read any Marvel books these days apart from Ultimate Spider-Man, but months ago I realised I'd missed a bunch of issues and it was in the middle of a story called "Spider-Man No More" - way to reinvent and reach out, Marvel! - and a "major character" had died in the interim and yet still nothing felt of consequence and the lead character was still vapor.  I dipped my toe in the Ultimates and Avengers waters, too, but I'm fucked if I can even tell them apart, so if Al Ewing didn't have a book out I'd probably have made a clean break by now since Image and IDW seem to be where it's at in terms of interesting comics.

Quote from: Professor James T Bear on 29 September, 2013, 06:08:47 PM
The first Essential volume of Silver Surfer is great fun, reading like a parody of what people who don't read comics probably think comics are really like, with the character draped across his surfboard as it floats around the world going "woe is me".  Daffy, daffy bollocks of the highest order.

Yeah I had a few of those early issues back in the day and they did seem to be the very zenith of Stan Lee's melodrama. I think that kinda put me off the character for life a little...

oh and I forgot the Moebius mini, whose art lifted the story beyond Stan Lee's norm.

If the new Surfer series was drawn and written solely by Allred, I'd almost imagine it'd come out like the first year of Madman Atomic Comics, where the characters go into space and encounter philosophy, whimsy, adventure and tragedy on alien worlds. With Slott writing, I haven't a clue what it'll be like - almost all the protagonists I've seen him write have been more grounded or capable of self-aware humour (Spidey, the GLA, She-Hulk, Thing) - not qualities I associate with Norrin Radd.

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 29 September, 2013, 07:03:39 PMYeah I had a few of those early issues back in the day and they did seem to be the very zenith of Stan Lee's melodrama. I think that kinda put me off the character for life a little...

Your heart is clearly devoid of joy.

So X-Factor is back in 2014 ('All New X-Factor'...10/10 for the original title).
Team is Polaris, Quicksilver, Gambit (and Doug Ramsey?).

The good news; PAD is writing it. My pull list receives an auto +1.

Whilst Gambit on a corporate team seems a bit of a head-scratcher, I can imagine he's a near perfect match for PAD. Pietro's new costume threw me a bit - I'm not used to seeing him in warm colours! Looking forward to this - if there's one thing PAD knows how to do, it's kick off a series with a bang.

Quote from: Link Prime on 11 October, 2013, 07:47:00 PM
So X-Factor is back in 2014 ('All New X-Factor'...10/10 for the original title).
Team is Polaris, Quicksilver, Gambit (and Doug Ramsey?).

The good news; PAD is writing it. My pull list receives an auto +1.

Lets hope the trades arn't $16,99 for 4 $2.99 issues.

Spurious Marvel rumour; heard months ago that the underwhelming 'Uncanny X-Force' (Vol 2) and 'Cable & X-Force' are gonna be cancelled in 2014, replaced by a new unified X-Force book, with Si Spurrier taking over.

Sounded good to me at the time, but heard nothing since.
I put it to Si when I met him at DICE a few weeks ago; his "No comment" and wry smirk gave me a bit of hope they're going for it (though I think he has a permanent wry smirk on his face, so that may have meant nothing).

My prediction; UXF Vol 2, Cable & X-Force and X-Men Legacy Vol 2 will be canned, replaced by a new black-ops X-Force book with Spurrier at the helm.

I'd buy it.

I think the twin X-Forces pretty much deserve to be binned - I gave up on both a while ago, as they fall into that category of books that sound much better when the creators talk about them than when you actually have to read them. I'm currently reading fewer X-Men titles than I have since the turn of the century (!) - specifically one, Wolverine. (Well, one and a half - the half being Uncanny Avengers. And that's clinging on because of Sunfire.)

Well with the announcement of Al Ewing on Loki then maybe Marvel will win me back after possibly crashing the two titles I'm getting out. Then I see this

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/10/12/nycc-inhumanity-inhumanity-all-new-invaders-ghost-rider-silver-surfer-iron-patriot-all-get-marvel-now-series/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/10/12/nycc-inhumanity-inhumanity-all-new-invaders-ghost-rider-silver-surfer-iron-patriot-all-get-marvel-now-series/)

and even my heart, so devoid of joy as it is, finds itself so tempted to check this out. If I ever doubted that Mike Allred was the perfect artist for a cosmic title this blows that doubt away.

Someone on the CBR forums has suggested that the fact Silver Surfer is taking a lady companion with him on his travels suggests this will be 'Marvel does Dr. Who.' The funny thing is, Slott is a big Dr. Who fan, so I can just about see it.

Quote from: Greg M. on 11 October, 2013, 09:24:59 PM
I'm currently reading fewer X-Men titles than I have since the turn of the century (!) - specifically one, Wolverine. (Well, one and a half - the half being Uncanny Avengers. And that's clinging on because of Sunfire.)

Exactly ZERO for me Greg, which is quite sad really.
As much as I admire Cornell & Davis' work, I had absolutely no interest in their Wolverine comic.
I really don't enjoy reading the character much any more, so will only pick up a book he's in if its by a creator I 'cant say no to' (for example Jocks few issues on Savage Wolverine).

Quote from: Link Prime on 14 October, 2013, 10:19:57 AM
I really don't enjoy reading the character much any more, so will only pick up a book he's in if its by a creator I 'cant say no to' (for example Jocks few issues on Savage Wolverine).

I picked this up in my LCS this weekend and it looked bloomin' lovely, by disinterest in Wolverine these days is such that I still didn't pick it up. Don't know if its the fact that he's so over-exposed or that I simply don't like the character anymore but since getting back into comics around 2003 Wolverine just hasn't held any interest at all. The exception being I'm really looking forward to reading a trade of Weapon X by Barry Windsor Smith I picked up, as I recall that was a fantastic comic.

That Silver Surfer series by Slott and Allred does look mighty interesting....

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 14 October, 2013, 10:24:38 AM

Quote from: Link Prime on 14 October, 2013, 10:19:57 AM
I really don't enjoy reading the character much any more, so will only pick up a book he's in if its by a creator I 'cant say no to' (for example Jocks few issues on Savage Wolverine).

I picked this up in my LCS this weekend and it looked bloomin' lovely, by disinterest in Wolverine these days is such that I still didn't pick it up. Don't know if its the fact that he's so over-exposed or that I simply don't like the character anymore but since getting back into comics around 2003 Wolverine just hasn't held any interest at all. The exception being I'm really looking forward to reading a trade of Weapon X by Barry Windsor Smith I picked up, as I recall that was a fantastic comic.

I feel the same way, albeit it's been a more recent divorce for me (I still dug a certain version of him up til the end of 'Uncanny X-Force' Vol 1), but the last few years have completely ruined the character.

On a related note- I rolled my eyes with derision at the announcement of 'Origin II', but seeing Kieron Gillens name attached did make me reconsider it.
It's in the TBD sub-folder.

Quote from: Link Prime on 14 October, 2013, 10:19:57 AM
As much as I admire Cornell & Davis' work, I had absolutely no interest in their Wolverine comic.
I really don't enjoy reading the character much any more, so will only pick up a book he's in if its by a creator I 'cant say no to' (for example Jocks few issues on Savage Wolverine).

I can understand that - I too have grown progressively fed up with the omnipresent Canuck and his ongoing sanctification (coupled with the demonising of Cyclops.) I was hoping Cornell would be able to get Wolverine back to his roots and remind us of why we used to love the little hairy guy (and we certainly did, back when he was the Avon to Cyclops's Blake), but the plot isn't grabbing me much, and I'm buying out of habit and general regard for the creative team. Wolverine has suffered such a sad case of character decay that I think he needs a good long rest.

Re: Origin II - yeah, the very idea of an Origin II is rotten, but... Gillen....

Quote from: Link Prime on 11 October, 2013, 09:14:31 PM
Spurious Marvel rumour; heard months ago that the underwhelming 'Uncanny X-Force' (Vol 2) and 'Cable & X-Force' are gonna be cancelled in 2014, replaced by a new unified X-Force book, with Si Spurrier taking over.

Sounded good to me at the time, but heard nothing since.
I put it to Si when I met him at DICE a few weeks ago; his "No comment" and wry smirk gave me a bit of hope they're going for it (though I think he has a permanent wry smirk on his face, so that may have meant nothing).

My prediction; UXF Vol 2, Cable & X-Force and X-Men Legacy Vol 2 will be canned, replaced by a new black-ops X-Force book with Spurrier at the helm.

I'd buy it.

Just call me 'Chuck Xavier': http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=48983

Sounds like a continuation of the Kyle/Yost stuff from five years ago, though hopefully without the fascist subtext that made that run a bit odd in the wrong kind of way.

I've no real interest in this... except I think I'll follow Si Spurrier wherever he goes at the minute. He's doing some brilliant stuff right now.

Quote from: Professor Bear on 07 November, 2013, 07:01:07 PM
hopefully without the fascist subtext that made that run a bit odd in the wrong kind of way.

Go on...

Had to happen I suppose...Marvel have Star Wars now.

http://www.thetimewarriors.co.uk/blog/?p=24977

Quote from: Greg M. on 14 October, 2013, 11:01:24 AM
Re: Origin II - yeah, the very idea of an Origin II is rotten, but... Gillen....

Rotten to the core, and I've previously mentioned on another thread I ain't buying it.

So, was in my LCS yesterday - they were selling issue 1 for one Euro.
What could I do? Not buying it for that price would just be pig-headed, especially as the artwork by Kubert looked so beautiful.

It was, perhaps unsurprisingly considering the writer, a great comic.
A well crafted tale of a man living as an animal, with a conclusion as horrifying as it was inevitable.

I'm on board for issue 2 (and likely beyond).
Pairing Gillen with an A list artist- who'd have thought it would work?

Quote from: Link Prime on 05 January, 2014, 10:59:53 AM

Quote from: Greg M. on 14 October, 2013, 11:01:24 AM
Re: Origin II - yeah, the very idea of an Origin II is rotten, but... Gillen....

Rotten to the core, and I've previously mentioned on another thread I ain't buying it.

So, was in my LCS yesterday - they were selling issue 1 for one Euro.
What could I do? Not buying it for that price would just be pig-headed, especially as the artwork by Kubert looked so beautiful.

It was, perhaps unsurprisingly considering the writer, a great comic.
A well crafted tale of a man living as an animal, with a conclusion as horrifying as it was inevitable.

D'you know, I was actually going to give this a miss, 'cos my Gillen-love has waned a little recently. 'Young Avengers', though clearly an excellent comic, just never blew me away as much as I thought it was going to, the exception being Prodigy's involvement: the issue that introduced him to the story was superb. Similarly, 'Iron Man' wasn't really grabbing me, until Gillen pulled the swerve at the end of the recent arc, which I did enjoy. You may, however, have convinced me to give the further adventures of young Mr. Howlett a go.

Always happy to enable a fellow (former) Marvel Zombie Greg!
If you want the Comixology code for that 1st issue to check it out yourself, I'll PM it, no problem.

Any idea when the first issue of Revolutionary War lands?

Quote from: Hawkmonger on 07 January, 2014, 08:32:22 AM
Any idea when the first issue of Revolutionary War lands?

Revolutionary War: Alpha hits the stands tomorrow.
Would like to get this series, but will decline due to cost. One for trade-waiting I think.

Intriguing news from Image Expo 2014, Casanova is coming back to Image Comics and and Brubaker's creator owned titles Criminal and Incognito are moving to Image too.

Revolutionary War: Alpha was the biz. Written and drawn by two people who are clearly fond of the source material.

Well damnit I do wish Marvel would get their act together. I don't think I've whined about this before but a run down of new comics they are releasing that have perked some interest.

1. Adventures of cheeky ol' Loki (or whatever its called): Great writer, fine looking art, no real interest in the character or getting dawn into all the Avengers shenanigans it seems mixed with?

2. Silver Surfer: Love the artist, heard mixed things about the writer, but strangely have have not read much by him at all, the character bores the bejezus out of me.

3. X-Force: Adore the writer (current fav of mine), have no interest in the characters and the art leaves me pretty cold.

and now

4. Nightcrawler: I bloody love Nightcrawler, back in the day second only to Daredevil (now probably third to the Wasp), the art looks fun and fitting, but written by Chris Claremont. I can't even read his classic stuff anymore, let alone his less well liked more recent work.

Why, why why do Marvel tease me like this. I don't think any of them have enough going for them to make me drop something else to pick them up so I suspect I'll be passing on them all... or I'll break when I see them... one or the other. Really though can't they just pander to my needs and give me:

Nightcrawler written by Si Spurrier with art by Mike Allred. Now that books a no brainer surely (actually would Al Ewing do a better Kurt, probably would. He can write the second arc then).

The one book I would have picked up for sure they're charging $5.99 for about 15 pages of content I actually want - so that's being trade-waited

Oh and on a tangent I've seen the preview art for She Hulk

http://www.newsarama.com/20053-she-hulk-1-x-force-1-first-looks.html (http://www.newsarama.com/20053-she-hulk-1-x-force-1-first-looks.html)

No interest in the book at all but the art looks wonderful.

http://www.newsarama.com/20053-she-hulk-1-x-force-1-first-looks.html (http://www.newsarama.com/20053-she-hulk-1-x-force-1-first-looks.html)

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 16 January, 2014, 02:15:21 PM

X-Force: Adore the writer (current fav of mine), have no interest in the characters and the art leaves me pretty cold.

I read the entertaining interview with Spurrier over on CBR last night- it would sell this book to anyone currently on the fence.

Superior Spider-man is wrapping up soon, so there's a distinct bulge in my wallet that was previously 8 quid thinner.

Love Spurrier.
Art, to me, looks very good.
I'm also a fan of Cable (when written well).

I'm definitely gonna pick this up.

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 16 January, 2014, 02:15:21 PM
Nightcrawler: I bloody love Nightcrawler, back in the day second only to Daredevil (now probably third to the Wasp), the art looks fun and fitting, but written by Chris Claremont. I can't even read his classic stuff anymore, let alone his less well liked more recent work.

This is a tricky one. There's no doubting that Claremont's recent work hasn't been great. But equally, no-one has ever written Nightcrawler (my favourite Marvel character) as well as Claremont. It is, in fact, baffling how many other writers have struggled in scripting a character whose merits are staggeringly obvious - he's a swashbuckling, teleporting, fuzzy blue elf! So this is one of those instances where I'm going to give Claremont the benefit of the doubt and give it a go.

Quote from: Greg M. on 16 January, 2014, 05:45:07 PM
It is, in fact, baffling how many other writers have struggled in scripting a character whose merits are staggeringly obvious - he's a swashbuckling, teleporting, fuzzy blue elf!

"Can I make him gritty? What?! Swashbuckling?! Errol Flynn?!? What kind of lame-assed crap is that? Don't you know comics are serious now?"

I'm not baffled...!

Cheers

Jim

Was perusing Midtowns listings for next week and noticed that Marvel are re-launching Paul Cornell's Wolverine with Vol 6 (???? When did that happen?).

I genuinely cannot get over the apathy I have for this title.

This is the one where Wolverine's sort-of a baddie and works for a crime-lord. Cornell refers to it as the second half of his Wolverine story, so presumably his run on it ends in a comparable number of issues to the last volume. Rumour, of course, is that Logan is killed off at the end. Probably for the best.

The last volume wasn't the best thing Cornell's ever written, but it did have Alan Davis drawing Sabretooth, evoking certain memories of that issue of Uncanny X-Men. And Cornell actually writes a good Sabretooth too - reminds you of why he was once such a scary and vital part of Wolverine's mythos.

Quote from: Greg M. on 30 January, 2014, 07:05:37 AM
Probably for the best.

Probably.

I popped into my LCS earlier this evening, and shot the breeze with the owner; he cannot get over how low the interest is in this relaunch. He's going to be selling issue 1 for a messily €2, but doesn't expect it to sell well at all.

Wake up and smell the indifference Marvel.

Quote from: Link Prime on 31 January, 2014, 12:48:21 AM

Quote from: Greg M. on 30 January, 2014, 07:05:37 AM
Probably for the best.

Probably.

I popped into my LCS earlier this evening, and shot the breeze with the owner; he cannot get over how low the interest is in this relaunch. He's going to be selling issue 1 for a messily €2, but doesn't expect it to sell well at all.

Wake up and smell the indifference Marvel.

The vanilla Wolverine book is consistantly a top 100 selling book with an 35k monthly sales, I don't think Marvel is going to lose any sleep over that yet, not until it hits the dreaded 20K at least.

On a completely different note, if anyone wants to see a giant-sized [spoiler]Mo Farah[/spoiler] jump on the head of a self-consciously zombified King Arthur, you really ought to buy Rob Williams's issue of Revolutionary War: Knights of Pendragon this week. Enormous fun.

Quote from: Greg M. on 31 January, 2014, 09:35:39 PM
On a completely different note, if anyone wants to see a giant-sized [spoiler]Mo Farah[/spoiler] jump on the head of a self-consciously zombified King Arthur, you really ought to buy Rob Williams's issue of Revolutionary War: Knights of Pendragon this week. Enormous fun.

I'm hearing good things about the Revolutionary War books Greg, I'm all over a collected edition when it's released.

Well blow me the world (of comics) is full of surprises. The two Marvel books I collect in floppies (I will forever get the DD collections) have now finished and I was looking at what to get to replace them. The books that should naturally tempt me I've drifted from, no real interest. Al Ewing's Loki just hasn't tempted me enough, I've gone off the idea of Silver Surfer however perfect the art will surely be and Si Spurrier's X-Force has horrible looking art, a cast that I have no connection with and is getting almost universally terrible reviews (I actually refuse to believe that anything Spurrier writes could be that bad?) so all of them I'm thinking I'll pass on.

So whats tempting me... well two books and the fact that they are shocks me to the core. Firstly I can't quite shake the feeling that I'm going to pick up Nightcrawler. The art looks fine but really a Chris Claremont X-book on my pull list, these days... madness BUT I really want this book to work as I love the character so much so I think I'm going to take a punt on it. I'm not setting my expectation high but you never know and at least this way I'll know one way or the other.

The second book is even more shocking. I have zero interest in whats happening in the X-Men, had none since I got back into comics over 10 years ago. I did read and love X-Men Legacy by Spurrier but that wasn't really an X-book book was it? Anyway imagine my surprise when alongside Nightcrawler the I'm looking most likely to give a try is the new Cyclops series. What the heck is all that about? But its Greg Rucka who I like well enough, its about a confused teenage boy being taken on some rite of passage by his Space pirate dad... that sounds - very strangely - like a winner to me

Nightcrawler by Claremont and a Cyclops book - what the heck is happening to me?

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 20 February, 2014, 03:19:41 PM
So whats tempting me... well two books and the fact that they are shocks me to the core. Firstly I can't quite shake the feeling that I'm going to pick up Nightcrawler. The art looks fine but really a Chris Claremont X-book on my pull list, these days... madness BUT I really want this book to work as I love the character so much so I think I'm going to take a punt on it. I'm not setting my expectation high but you never know and at least this way I'll know one way or the other.

Jump on in to Amazing X-Men, it's an old skool fun book setting up Nightcrawler's adventures in the afterlife (and a very not-dead team of X-Men going after him) back to the living. It has a silver age pirate fun feeling to it.

Marvel are putting a lot of good, very different, books lately. Editorial really seem to relish at buying into a creative team's pitch and letting them run with their vision. Marvel NOW initiative has been great success IMO

As oppose to DC's NEW 52 which is still 90% in house style and pointing the creators down the path editorial want to see.

Quote from: sheldipez on 20 February, 2014, 04:00:37 PM
As oppose to DC's NEW 52 which is still 90% in house style and pointing the creators down the path editorial marketing want to see.

... From what I hear.

Cheers

Jim

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 20 February, 2014, 03:19:41 PM
Si Spurrier's X-Force has horrible looking art, a cast that I have no connection with and is getting almost universally terrible reviews (I actually refuse to believe that anything Spurrier writes could be that bad?) so all of them I'm thinking I'll pass on.

I've picked up the first issue of Spurrier's X-Force, but haven't read it yet.
Haven't seen any bad reviews to be honest, and I too would be surprised considering the caliber of Spurrier's scripting.
Art looks interesting to me, certainly a different style to a lot of whats out there- I'm willing to give this book 3 issues before making any calls on it.

No interest in Nightcrawler or Cyclops though, despite a fondness for Claremont's take on the former, a long, long time ago.

Quote from: Link Prime on 20 February, 2014, 04:40:22 PM
I've picked up the first issue of Spurrier's X-Force, but haven't read it yet.
Haven't seen any bad reviews to be honest, and I too would be surprised considering the caliber of Spurrier's scripting.

Be very interested to hear what you think of it. I'm a massive Si Spurrier fan at the moment and if I see and hear good things you never know I might give it a chance?

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 20 February, 2014, 04:57:55 PM

Quote from: Link Prime on 20 February, 2014, 04:40:22 PM
I've picked up the first issue of Spurrier's X-Force, but haven't read it yet.
Haven't seen any bad reviews to be honest, and I too would be surprised considering the caliber of Spurrier's scripting.

Be very interested to hear what you think of it. I'm a massive Si Spurrier fan at the moment and if I see and hear good things you never know I might give it a chance?

Will post a mini-review after issue 3 so (which should be quite soon considering Marvel's shipping schedule...)

I had heard nothing but awful things about the new X-Force, but, as the following site shows, it's not gotten a universal panning, even though the mainstream sites (Newsarama, CBR) absolutely hate it.

http://comicbookroundup.com/comic-books/reviews/marvel-comics/x-force-%282014%29/1 (http://comicbookroundup.com/comic-books/reviews/marvel-comics/x-force-%282014%29/1)

Most of the complaints seem to be that the concepts have been seen before and the characters are uninteresting - which for a reviewer of modern superhero comics to be complaining about is more or less the same thing as a gay man going to a Matthew McCaunaghy film and then complaining that he took his shirt off too much.

Can't say I know Si at all, but when he was posting here I don't recall him ever mentioning that one day he hoped to write a Youngblood rip-off with 90s Girl Wolverine and Grant Morrison's half-assed Diabolik rip-off in the cast, so I would go into this expecting that a significant portion of its content and direction was mandated by marketing and editorial, and that the author's voice might not immediately assert itself.

Quote from: Greg M. on 20 February, 2014, 06:09:06 PM
I had heard nothing but awful things about the new X-Force, but, as the following site shows, it's not gotten a universal panning, even though the mainstream sites (Newsarama, CBR) absolutely hate it.

http://comicbookroundup.com/comic-books/reviews/marvel-comics/x-force-%282014%29/1 (http://comicbookroundup.com/comic-books/reviews/marvel-comics/x-force-%282014%29/1)

Wow never heard of that site before what a cute research that is. Interesting that DC books seem to aggregate out very well with only a couple of exceptions (this week at least).

Finaly caught up on Revolutionary War Knights of the Pendragon and Deaths Head.

Was dissapointed by the former but the latter satisfied me very much indeed, worth the double dip for the graphic novel alone.

 If i remember rightly CBR gave Spurriers Xmen-Legacy 1 star for the first couple of issues,and now they talk about that run like its the best thing ever written.ever. I think it'll just need a couple of issues to get going is all,ill probably pick up X-Force #1 when ive got time.
Also the interview that someone mentioned  with Spurrier on CBR is brilliant and he comes across as a funny,likable chap who knows what he's talking about so I'll buy it to help keep him in work (this is what i tell myself when im justifying my spending  ;)   )

I've had a chance to read it myself and it's indistinguishable from the Remender/Yost stuff, which reviewers and fanboys were fapping themselves into a frenzy over, so fuck knows what their problem is.
If I had to guess at whatever minor niggles piss them off, it'd probably be that characters now have accents, and that Cable looks like sketches of Snake from Metal Gear Solid that someone's painted over, also no Deadpool - but I would have thought would be a plus.

I think being a new writer on an X-book must be like a game of Buckaroo - you don't know when adding or taking something away from what fans expect will make them flip out and throw toys everywhere.

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 20 February, 2014, 03:19:41 PM
Si Spurrier's X-Force has horrible looking art, a cast that I have no connection with and is getting almost universally terrible reviews (I actually refuse to believe that anything Spurrier writes could be that bad?) so all of them I'm thinking I'll pass on.

The first issues of legacy got an absolute kicking too. Spurrier put out something telling people to fuck off. Quite right too. The British stuff lost me a bit but the 24 issue run is the only marvel series I've bought in 20 years. He's just far far far too good a writer.

Quote from: Professor Bear on 21 February, 2014, 04:04:50 PM
I've had a chance to read it myself and it's indistinguishable from the Remender/Yost stuff, which reviewers and fanboys were fapping themselves into a frenzy over, so fuck knows what their problem is.

Yeah.

I enjoyed the first issue, the complete opposite to how I felt about the first issues of the previous two incarnations of the team (Cable & X-Force / Uncanny X-Force Vol II), what little I read of each felt like an actual chore.

Plus; using Marrow as a spiky little bullet was an inspired set piece.

I have just sold about 2000 Marvel comics to Forbidden Planet Belfast-true story.

Was perusing the latest digital releases on Comixology there, and X-Men: No More Humans caught my eye.
Ok; it's an "original graphic novel". Fine.
Ok; it's creative team of Mike Carey & Salvador Larocca have some chops. Fine.

But C'MON- €21.49 for 107 pages?
DIGITAL?

Yeah, good luck with that boys.

For anybody who's interested The Works chain of bookshops is selling "MARVEL  Year by Year  -  A Visual Chronicle"  updated and expanded published September 2013 by DK (Dorling Kindersley Ltd)  for £14.99 instead of £35.

Quote from: Prodigal2 on 22 February, 2014, 12:29:30 PM
I have just sold about 2000 Marvel comics to Forbidden Planet Belfast-true story.

I put mine in the bin.

Professor Bear :lol: bit hard on the bin. Z

Quote from: Old Tankie on 07 May, 2014, 09:34:11 PM
For anybody who's interested The Works chain of bookshops is selling "MARVEL  Year by Year  -  A Visual Chronicle"  updated and expanded published September 2013 by DK (Dorling Kindersley Ltd)  for £14.99 instead of £35.

I picked this up from The Book People (who sell through loads of offices and workplaces) for a tenner (well worth it), but on their website it's a whopping £28.

Quote from: Link Prime on 07 May, 2014, 09:16:50 PM
Was perusing the latest digital releases on Comixology there, and X-Men: No More Humans caught my eye.

I bought a physical copy, Link, so if you want the code for the free digital edition, let me know.

You're a gent Greg- that's a very generous offer, I'd really appreciate it.
I can offer you the codes for Spurriers run on X-Force in return if you want 'em.

Wow this thread took some finding.

Anyway looks like we've all been neglecting Marvel the way I have. I've even fallen behind on my DD trades (though thats more do do with me faffing about format) and they cancelled the last book of theirs I really liked (well aside from DD), being Cyclops, of all things.

Anyway was kinda hoping they'd be a book for me to pick up after Secret Wars, just to keep me looking out as they do produce some good books. None of the announced mass of books did it for me. But there are still more to come. Turns out one of them might just be the book. Due largely to someone from this parish. Dan Abnett is doing a Hercules book, and makes it sound like its got great potential.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/exclusive-hercules-returns-in-new-marvel-series-by-abnett-ross (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/exclusive-hercules-returns-in-new-marvel-series-by-abnett-ross)

The set-up sounds not dissimilar to the short-lived 'Herc' series that followed 'Incredible Hercules' - albeit it doesn't sound like Herc's de-powered in this one. I'll be getting this - I actually prefer Abnett's work for US publishers to his 2000AD stuff, and I like Hercules a lot as a character. Should be interesting when he meets up with Amadeus Cho who it seems very likely is Totally Awesome Hulk (yes, that is the book's name.)

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 29 July, 2015, 09:26:25 PM
Anyway was kinda hoping they'd be a book for me to pick up after Secret Wars

I was quite happy that there didn't seem to be anything of interest for me, until this popped up this morning; http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/nicieza-brown-reunite-for-new-deadpool-cable-split-second-series

I stand by the opinion that the original 50 issue Cable / Deadpool run is the funniest Marvel comic I've read.
Great to see Nicieza back on this.

Marvel Comics, buses none for ages, then two at the same time etc etc. And now there is...

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/marvel-introduces-moon-girl-devil-dinosaur-by-reeder-montclare-bustos (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/marvel-introduces-moon-girl-devil-dinosaur-by-reeder-montclare-bustos)

Devil Dinosaur*, the creators of Rocket Girl it's like Marvel remembered they did want my money after all.

*I respect the fact they admit it will have little to do with the original.

NECROPOST and I'm unapologetic, cos otherwise I'd be clogging up the 'Whats everyone readin' threading with some whining and my whine is aimed at Marvel, though I suspect that it might be aimed elsewhere these days... ANYWAY.

Marvel really are getting grabby with the money. I've not bought a single Miracle/Marvelman comic / collection to date as they've all seemed very overpriced and padded with low quality filler to justify inflated costs to the punter. Same thing was happening to their Star Wars stuff was going to trade wait but they seemed very overpriced and so had drifted from that. So far so much whining about comics being expensive, an old and sorry cliched tale these days alas.

BUT then.

My daughter got into Star Wars and particularly Princess Leia, so over excited Dad sees Princess Leia trade by Mark Waid on the shelf at his LCS and without thinking snaps it up at 14.99 (I think it was, certainly has a $19.99 price tag so around that mark), it felt a bit slim for that but as I say I had my daughter in my nerdy sights.

Anyway buy in haste, regret at leisure. We've started reading it tonight and have to say have no beef with the quality of story or art BUT the product. OUCH! It was always slim pickings for $19.99 for 5 issues but its a tatty product for the money too. Paper really slight and cover insubstance. Just feels pretty cheap and nasty. I'm very disappointed. I guess I have to accept that they are there to make money but are all Marvel trades this flimsy these days? If so YIKE I need to catch up with DD but if this is the quality I'm waiting for a digital sale or finding cheap hardcovers!

I suspect anything with the Star Wars brand is a quick cash-in on the movie by design, especially as there was a ton of Star Wars comics coming out late last year to the point it was practically its own imprint.

Me, I'm waiting on Marvel doing decent reprints of their own SW comics from the 1970s/1980s.  The computery-coloured stuff can naff off, though.

I've got the old 'Long long time Ago'Dark Horse editions - they are GREAT and I think you can pick them up quite cheaply these days?

Quote from: Scolaighe Ó'Bear on 10 February, 2016, 09:52:13 PM
I suspect anything with the Star Wars brand is a quick cash-in on the movie by design, especially as there was a ton of Star Wars comics coming out late last year to the point it was practically its own imprint.

Star Wars  has always been like that though. Dark Horse always had a full slate of Star Wars titles

Some of the Star Wars stuff is actually pretty good. Princess Leia was quite entertaining, as was Lando. The main Star Wars and Darth Vader comics are pretty good apart from some incredibly bad supporting characters (the fan-wank evil versions of C3P0 and R2D2 and the 'so totally modern' Doctor Aphra).

Quote from: The Adventurer on 10 February, 2016, 11:40:11 PM
Star Wars  has always been like that though. Dark Horse always had a full slate of Star Wars titles

I remember thinking DH were tearing the arse out of the licence when they had it, too.  It wasn't that I believed they might be bad comics or that I wouldn't be interested in reading one, it's just that they seemed to be endless and I wouldn't have known where to start.
I get the same impression looking at the new Marvel SW books -we're told that each title is standalone, but I gather that in true Marvel fashion, this is not entirely accurate.

The mini series have been stand-alone but they've all been pretty slight. Even the better ones have felt padded out for the TPB market.

Star Wars and Darth Vader need to be read together really. They're both pretty strong but I wish they'd replace Kieron Gillen on Vader. I'm not a fan of his, I'd rather see someone like Dan Abnett or Chuck Dixon on it.

Marvel don't seem to want my money at the moment.

I buy a lot of trades - I don't buy monthly comics any more, but I love Marvel and keep up with the main events in trades - the big crossover events, quite a lot of the Avengers stuff, and also some X-men/spiderman/Fantastic Four. I've had all the Avengers World/Time Runs out series for ages but the Secret War TPB is taking ages to come out - they've put out quite a few post-SW stuff, but I'm not buying any of that yet, so basically my book purchasing is on hold until sometime in March when I can get my hands on SW.

Stan Lee Presents: The End of an Era

Oh Marvel, how did we get here?

In the beginning I was consumed with passion for you.
I'll never forget those early years of wild abandon- the places we visited together.
In later years my devotion never swayed. Sure, we had our ups and downs, and your greedy nature became more and more apparent, but that connection - that history- kept us together.
Then, perhaps 4 years ago, a light-switch was flipped. Things began to get ugly.
The once rock solid relationship soured between us, escalating so quickly that we had practically zero contact for a whole year.
Contempt soon set in, but after a relatively short while it just faded to indifference.

There was that briefest flicker of reconciliation when a 'reboot' of the X-Men titles was announced some months ago, but after seeing your plans laid out I now realise that nothing has changed- you are in fact incapable of change.
Worse, even if you did change, provided everything (I believe) I want, I don't think it could ever be the same again.

And anyway- I couldn't afford to keep you around anymore.
I don't think anyone can.

That is so on the nose Link Prime.

For me Marvel left me behind a good few years ago now, but my relationship with DC was much like the one you have (had) with Marvel. The dwindling of my love is recorded over various threads on this very board, particularly the 'Comic book day Mega Thread', which I think you've been witnes to.

Its kind sad, kinda wonderful step to take. Hell you can always visit when there's something that brings your now different orbits into alignment (I'm currently getting 1 comic from Marvel, 1 from DC and 1 from Vertigo (though that ain't lasting)) and you can revisit those glorious memories whenever you like of course.

There's enough good, nah - great - comics (as you well know) out there that playing the field is so much more fun.

Well said old man and enjoy the freedom you have earned.

yeah, I managed to break my addiction when the Marvel Universe came to an end - I've dipped my toe back in with Civil War II and the first Dr Strange TPB, but I doubt I'll ever recapture the enthusiasm to keep up to date, I may just buy the odd stand-alone or mini-series. They seem to just be endlessly recycling old stories and ideas but in a more "modern" or "edgy" way.

I was never a big DC buyer, but usually got all the big crossover events - The New 52 allowed me to make a clean break there!

Nowadays I'm getting into much more diverse stuff - bought quite a few Image books recently, they do have some fine titles

Mega events a variant covers,but zero quality.I could cry when I see how they butchered Thunderbolts.

I'm actually at least a couple of months behind on my comic reading, but I've been enjoying Dr Strange, Black Widow and Daredevil a lot in their current incarnations. I was enjoying the Simone/Dillon Punisher until... y'know. That last issue Steve partially completed was a tough read for reasons unrelated to the quality of the book and I haven't been able to summon any enthusiasm to continue. :-(

Seems I'm going against the tide but I just can't quit Marvel! I've pretty much bailed on all the big event stuff, but they will keep creating series that are, well, great reads.

I've been loving Nick Spencer's work on the two Captain America books (slightly sad now that it might all get overtaken by the next Big Event, though), and Jason Aaron's sprawling Thor epic is building to a satisfying climax. But mostly it's the smaller side-books that I find easy to read without worrying about how it fits - or doesn't - with the wider Universe. Scarlet Witch, Hulk (the current Jennifer Walters PTSD one), Ms Marvel, Hawkeye (Kate Bishop as a rubbish PI; see also the latest Jessica Jones).

I suspect if I stopped subscribing I wouldn't miss it much, but every month I get the books in and they're great. Not 2000AD great, but it does feel like the writers and artists are still finding ways to tell personal stories through corporate characters.

And I'm a contuned sucker for Al Ewing, who evidently read and loved the same Marvel comics I did in the late 80s.

I find Marvel's top brass throwing a tantrum at falling sales and pointing the blame at minorities incredibly frustrating.

Remember folks, the Big Two don't give a toss about readers or creatives, only money.

Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 03 April, 2017, 10:52:09 AM
I find Marvel's top brass throwing a tantrum at falling sales and pointing the blame at minorities incredibly frustrating.

Remember folks, the Big Two don't give a toss about readers or creatives, only money.

Actually,they questioned their own push for more diversity,they didn't blame minorities. Not that Im defending anyone there.
And that was hardly their biggest problem.At any given time you have at least 2 events running.That's the biggest problem.That and bad writing,stupid ideas and butchering of beloved teams.

Comic Trumpers have been saying for ages that diversity is ruining comics - just hop down the rabbit-hole of bachelor sadness that is Comics Youtube and you'll see what I mean.  When David Gabriel says "retailers are telling me", he's just repeating a preferred narrative of a small minority of vocal butthurt fanboys.

September would have been the time I stopped reading Marvel books entirely, but it had less to do with too many Ms Marvel appearances - I sell my comics on eBay these days, and let me assure you I would be happy if she appeared in all of them, seeing how they shift when she's on a cover - and more to do with the fact that it was the middle of Civil War 2, which after Secret Wars 2 just felt like an underwhelming and cheap cash-grab.

I've not had much exposure to Marvel comics in the main, and decided to buy all the #1s of the Panini 'collectors edition' reprints. The books I enjoyed most were those with diversity, and that's in part because that forced variety. MWOM was Doctor Strange/Ms. Marvel/Black Widow, but natch that's now being shifted with Silver Surfer and Guardians of the Galaxy.

I think what gets me most, though, is how rapidly themes repeat, and how frequently issues are about various Marvel heroes duffing up other Marvel heroes. The lack of imagination is quite stark. I can't imagine a great deal of my subscriptions are going to survive beyond the first year.

Actually,what David Gabriel is doing is blaming the readers for failing sales.Same as always,really.

No-one in marketing or sales blames consumers for not buying something because their job is to make people buy the product regardless of its quality.  What Gabriel is actually saying is that he's shit at his job.

Obviously,there are exceptions.And we heard that song before.
We also know Marvel executives are never guilty of anything.According to them.

Perhaps the fundamental problem – which I hinted at earlier – is that much of this content is now too heavily obsessed with supporting continuity, and mired in repeating the same old steps. I was chatting with my wife earlier about the various Marvel movies (and some somewhat related stuff in terms of genre) and we concluded that it's all just become rather boring. There's no spark. We're just seeing someone in a different costume going through the same old motions with the same old effects, and that's too often the case on the pages, too, from what I'm reading. There are exceptions, but, depressingly, those are the things that don't appear to last very long.

Indigo,you summed up a lot of my complains too.

At this point the only Marvel title Im following is Spiderman/Deadpool.And even then,there is way too many filler issues.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 03 April, 2017, 02:16:00 PM
Perhaps the fundamental problem – which I hinted at earlier – is that much of this content is now too heavily obsessed with supporting continuity, and mired in repeating the same old steps.

That's what makes an event designed to end that continuity such an odd choice - if only because DC did exactly the same kind of line-wide reboot five years ago and their sales still haven't recovered.  Then they almost immediately follow that with more continuity-wank.

But then they did Rebirth and are now beating Marvel in sales.Sometimes,putting lipstick on a pig does work.

There's a lot of headline chasing going on at the Big 2.They keep putting out these big continuity-quaking events, get loads of headlines, see a brief sales spike and then a couple of years late the same thing happens  to diminishing returns.
I'd be interested to see how the TPB lines sell. Almost everything gets collected these days but I bet the big sellers are still the old favourites - The Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum, Dark Knight, Watchmen etc.

Does anyone know what the most profitable current ongoing title is? The Walking Dead maybe?

The Walking Dead at one point accounted for 50% of North American comics sales, so probably that.  If you're talking Big Two or superhero titles, Batman and Spider-Man are probably the evergreens.

Quote from: JamesC on 03 April, 2017, 05:15:41 PMand then a couple of years late the same thing happens to diminishing returns.

Months.  A couple of months later.
Marvel currently have a crossover twice a year, each typically lasting between two and four months at a time, and even a blind man can see this isn't a long term strategy.  Sooner or later, the bubble was going to burst.

Im thinking the best thing to do would be to gather the editors and executives and show them "Rise and fall of the comic empire".They might learn something.

Quote from: Professor Bear on 03 April, 2017, 02:59:03 PM
That's what makes an event designed to end that continuity such an odd choice - if only because DC did exactly the same kind of line-wide reboot five years ago and their sales still haven't recovered.  Then they almost immediately follow that with more continuity-wank.

I really haven't got a horse in this race but really sometimes I have to call the absolute nonsense spouted by some.

Now assuming you mean Nu52 about 6 years ago now that absolutely was a short and medium term success. DC ruled the roost for a good couple of years. A sustained advantage over Marvel that they'd not had in years. Many years. The over all direct US market was inflated considerably and for a while there all was good in the world. Image was kicking ass, Marvel were in second but doing okay.

The Nu52 was such a success that its been suggest that inspired Marvel's reboot thingie. I have to be honest I've not been paying that much attention but for some reason that didn't take. Then however Star Wars and Marvel are sitting pretty again. So DC fight back with Rebirth and for a short period ruled the roost again. Too and fro.

Now I'm not saying there aren't considerable problems in the mainstream but simply repainting the past to suit your kool cynical comments is utter nonsense.

Quote from: Professor Bear on 03 April, 2017, 05:38:51 PM
The Walking Dead at one point accounted for 50% of North American comics sales, so probably that.  If you're talking Big Two or superhero titles, Batman and Spider-Man are probably the evergreens.

I'd happily be proved wrong here but I'd like to see a stat on that, some evidence at least. I know they had great sales when the had a celebration issue not that long ago but 50% of the comics market? Maybe trades I'd be prepared to belive that maybe, but the comics market.

Well as I say I could be wrong there, but I'd be very surprised?

I still recall your hopes and dreams being visibly crushed before our eyes the longer the New 52 thread went on, Colin.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 03 April, 2017, 09:49:21 PMThe Nu52 was such a success

For already-successful comics like Green Lantern, Batman and Robin, Action Comics, and their spin-offs titles like Teen Titans and Justice League, perhaps - but three years after the glut of shiny new #1s hitting stands, how many non-tentpole books were still being published?  I'm pretty sure even fans of Animal Man and Swamp Thing were counting the seconds until the axe fell.

As thing currently stand,DC is the lesser evil.IMO,they are puttion out better books right now.

TBH I can't see improvement in current DC rooster.

Abnett books are fine, Wonder Woman also, few of my friends said some nice things about Tom King's Batman but here I draw the line since I'm totally bored with everything Batman Related. On the other hand Green Lantern is mediocre at best, Green Arrow is far from perfect (and I was always a fan of GA)... etc. I read almost every first few issues of current DC line and really I can't see improvement in overall quality.

Some people just like the fact that current DC is trying to sell people on something new/something old policy and I guess it's good for typical superhero reader but I just can't get behind most of this books.

Ofcourse Marvel is no better, actually right there's only two books I enjoy - Thor and The Ultimates. Daredevil is nowhere as good as he should be (but like with Green Arrow, as longtime reader I have problems droping the book) and all those indie wannabe titles are fine but I wish if they were more... bold?

Ofcourse maybe I'm just tired of big-two but I can't see big difference between both of them in quality of products right now.

Ofc,thats just a personal taste,but Dan Jurgens beats Nick Spencer.  :P

sales figures, you say?
Try here:
http://www.comicsbeat.com/category/sales-charts/ (http://www.comicsbeat.com/category/sales-charts/)

-to get the sad news on ever-diminsihing sales of monthly comics

And then try here:
http://www.comicsbeat.com/tilting-at-windmills-257-looking-at-bookscan-2016-more-than-10-million-sold/ (http://www.comicsbeat.com/tilting-at-windmills-257-looking-at-bookscan-2016-more-than-10-million-sold/)

-to get the happy news that 'collected comics aka trade paperbacks aka graphic novels aka comics as sold through Amazon and book shops' are selling better and better each year.

Loot crates,variant cover,events...direct market sales dont reflect how many people are actually reading comics.

We can complain, with justification, about the curses of the crossover/reboot/continuity rut, but at the same time, some of these properties have had 25-100 pages of comic a month for half a century. Perhaps the Big 2's Big Names are just played out? Imagine if Flesh (for example) had run continuously in over 2000 progs now?  Or even less contentious strips like Strontium Dog or Zenith, running non-stop for 40 years? Dredd has managed it, just about, but that's one exceptional highly flexible strip, and even that has had just share of grim doldrums.

Maybe no property/character/cash cow can be expected to run and remain popular  indefinitely?

I read somewhere that book sales in general are down all over in the last 8 months or so, including comic tpbs and digital.  The slump may be nothing more complex than a general tightening of belts.

Quote from: TordelBack on 04 April, 2017, 11:09:34 AM
We can complain, with justification, about the curses of the crossover/reboot/continuity rut, but at the same time, some of these properties have had 25-100 pages of comic a month for half a century. Perhaps the Big 2's Big Names are just played out? Imagine if Flesh (for example) had run continuously in over 2000 progs now?  Or even less contentious strips like Strontium Dog or Zenith, running non-stop for 40 years? Dredd has managed it, just about, but that's one exceptional highly flexible strip, and even that has had just share of grim doldrums.

Maybe no property/character/cash cow can be expected to run and remain popular  indefinitely?

This is the crux of it really.
Add to this the complications of a shared universe and a need to return to the status quo and you can see how quality would suffer.

Having said that, there's nothing necessarily wrong with the ideas/premises behind most of the stories, it's just the execution.
If I use The Punisher as an example - the best stories (basically the Ennis, Aaron and Dixon stuff) don't have any particularly original ideas in them. They just get the character and the tone right. There's no reason, with a decent editor and a decent talent pool, that stories of Frank Castle's antics shouldn't continue at that level of quality indefinitely.

Which in a sense is why 2000 AD works so well – until it doesn't. Sláine feels like Sláine because Pat Mills writes it. Strontium Dog feels like Strontium Dog because it's Grant/Wagner. Dredd for the most part feels like Dredd, and only tends to wobble when certain writers enter the mix who don't have a great grasp on the character. And even then, 2000 AD has an advantage of sorts in having relatively few pages to fill.

Even so, it's interesting to read a lot of Marvel in a short space of time (I bought the entire previous volume runs of two CE's). It often ends up feeling like watching those backgrounds in cheap animations. Everything just loops. The same old ideas and concepts go round and round. That's why it's refreshing when people try and do something new – but then you see people griping. In the MC's letters pages, people are shitting all over Doctor Strange, most notable the art. I thought Bachalo's work was great, and have really enjoyed his run with Aaron. Natch, they're now out.

That last point also makes be grateful for 2000 AD's penchant towards at least some experimentation. When the majors stray from the norms in terms of art, readers freak out. But 2000 AD has a great mix and even on its major stories sometimes permits decidedly alternate takes.

I'll start by saying I know next to nothing about Marvel comics. I had heard of Civil War - I thought that was a thing they started last year ( I got a couple at Free Comic Book Day last year). So I took a look at the start of this thread and Civil War was mentioned there - from back in 2008. So, what is going on?

Also I was thinking of getting Guardians of the Galaxy purely because a) I loved the film last year and b) it's by Dan Abnett. That means it's got to be good, right?

The Dabnett Guardians stuff is the only Marvel stuff I give shelf space to anymore from Marvel.

For a while,Marvel cosmic stuff was pure gold.So yeah,dont hesitate to get Annihilation and continue from there.

Another example of a series getting it right is Hellblazer. 300 monthly issues, a whole host of different writers and artists yet, taken as a whole, a fantastic body of work.
I'm still gutted that they cancelled it!

I know JC is a great character but surely there's no reason that Batman, Superman, Spider-man, Wonder Woman etc couldn't enjoy similarly high-quality runs?

Yeah,taken as whole is terribly broad definition.Combined Delano-Ennis run is some of the best comics ever.Warren Ellis also had a great(but sadly too short) run.Azzarelo did an okay job.But you also had Paul Jenkins who managed to write 50 issues without actually contributing anything.Dear Grud,there are stereotypes,and then there are Rich the Punk and Slobodan(Funny foreigner/Serbian war criminal).

Quote from: Magnetica on 04 April, 2017, 11:45:32 PM
I'll start by saying I know next to nothing about Marvel comics. I had heard of Civil War - I thought that was a thing they started last year ( I got a couple at Free Comic Book Day last year). So I took a look at the start of this thread and Civil War was mentioned there - from back in 2008. So, what is going on?

Also I was thinking of getting Guardians of the Galaxy purely because a) I loved the film last year and b) it's by Dan Abnett. That means it's got to be good, right?

The first Civil War (2006 I think) was when Marvel took crossovers to a whole new level, and it was very well done - basically, after a tragedy, the Govt decides that all supers must be registered and reveal their identity - iron man and many others agree, Capt America an others do not - cue civil war. There was one main book and every book had it's own tie-in, but it really felt like a single coherent, and massively important, event, that had lasting effects on verybody.

They tried the same trick every year thereafter with diminishing effectiveness, and then when the entire Marvel universe was destroyed and rebooted, they decided to do the whole thing all over again - this time, Shield has an inhuman who gets visions of the future and embark of preemptive strikes, which again divides the superhero community. It's not a patch on the original, but far better than a lot of the other crossovers such as Original Sin or Secret Invasion

Original Sin just struck me as a waste of time. The main story was fine, if fairly ordinary. But reading 'outside' of that core book offered very little of substance. It all just felt so throwaway.

Quote from: Dandontdare on 05 April, 2017, 01:53:39 PM
...that had lasting effects on everybody.

Apart from Spider-man, of course, who used a Wish spell.

Quote from: TordelBack on 05 April, 2017, 02:14:23 PM

Quote from: Dandontdare on 05 April, 2017, 01:53:39 PM
...that had lasting effects on everybody.

Apart from Spider-man, of course, who used a Wish spell.

We reached One More Day.Fuck...

I'm not a Spidey fanboy and yet One More Day was where I seemed to subconsciously call it quits with the character entirely, even though my abiding memory of it isn't the terrible writing and premise so much as the behind the scenes shenanigans that began the irreparable destruction of JMS' relationship with the industry he then made a pretty good fist at destroying by writing Superman: Earth One.

I wasn't impressed by One More Day at the time, seemed like a cheap trick, but in hindsight, it was necessary for the character - a publicly known spiderman just didn't seem to work somehow. And at least it wasn't in isolation - there's a time travelling Fantastic Four/spiderman crossover story set afterwards when they revisit some primitives who have built a statue of them to celebrate their first visit - the FF realise they must have known (and forgotten) his identity because spiderman is unmasked in the statue, which leads to some awkward questions about trust.

Quote from: Smith on 05 April, 2017, 01:41:29 PM
Yeah,taken as whole is terribly broad definition.Combined Delano-Ennis run is some of the best comics ever.Warren Ellis also had a great(but sadly too short) run.Azzarelo did an okay job.But you also had Paul Jenkins who managed to write 50 issues without actually contributing anything.Dear Grud,there are stereotypes,and then there are Rich the Punk and Slobodan(Funny foreigner/Serbian war criminal).

Fair enough, but I think it still works as an example of a comic that can run long term with an ever changing creative team to a monthly schedule and still offer high-quality entertainment - all without the main character ever feeling 'played-out'.

I've enjoyed what I've read of Dan Slot's Spider-Man. Superior is well worth checking out.
i don't find the Christophe Yost stuff anywhere near as good though.

Yes,but that kinda brings up the main difference;Hellblazer had something current Marvel doesn't-capable editors.But obviously,somebody at Disney is happy with Alonsos work,so hes still here...
I mean,this is the guy who's selling the story about people regretting going to Image.After losing pretty much every A-list writer to Image.

So are there complete collected editions of Abnett's Guardians of the Galaxy?

All I have to go on is Wikipedia and it's not clear to me which ones I need to get. e.g. Is Annihilation part of it?

Quote from: Magnetica on 05 April, 2017, 04:48:08 PM
So are there complete collected editions of Abnett's Guardians of the Galaxy?

All I have to go on is Wikipedia and it's not clear to me which ones I need to get. e.g. Is Annihilation part of it?

During Annihilation Abnett only wrote Nova mini, he was more involved in Annihilation Conquest but Starlord miniseries that actually kickstarts GOTG is written by Giffen. TBH reading only GOTG material is kinda pointless, they're part of bigger story and best option is... read everything collected in series of omnibuses, from Annihilation to War of Kings Aftermath (or to find some TPB replacements since Annihilation Omni is OOP).

Whole cosmic saga started in Annihalion is good read, ofcourse there are also some awful stories in it, but GOTG and Nova (also Abnett and Lanning) works better as a part of whole cosmic narrative.

Quote from: JamesC on 05 April, 2017, 03:33:42 PM
I've enjoyed what I've read of Dan Slot's Spider-Man. Superior is well worth checking out.
i don't find the Christophe Yost stuff anywhere near as good though.

Superior was well worth it and a nice twist.  The AmSpid reboot started out reasonably well and SpiderVerse was an enjoyable tale but since then it seems to have lost it a bit.  Peter Parker the corporate jet setter just doesn't sit right.

Pricing probably doesn't help either so daft decisions to go bi-monthly without having the quality to back it up really doesn't do them any favours.  Digital also seems to have pretty much killed the back issue market along with the TPB schedule so you have to wonder if it is worth picking them up each month any more.  Marvel seem to be finding about as many ways to shoot themselves in the foot as the Tories do over Brexit ("little bit of politics.").

Quote from: jacob g on 05 April, 2017, 05:44:14 PM

Quote from: Magnetica on 05 April, 2017, 04:48:08 PM
So are there complete collected editions of Abnett's Guardians of the Galaxy?

All I have to go on is Wikipedia and it's not clear to me which ones I need to get. e.g. Is Annihilation part of it?

During Annihilation Abnett only wrote Nova mini, he was more involved in Annihilation Conquest but Starlord miniseries that actually kickstarts GOTG is written by Giffen. TBH reading only GOTG material is kinda pointless, they're part of bigger story and best option is... read everything collected in series of omnibuses, from Annihilation to War of Kings Aftermath (or to find some TPB replacements since Annihilation Omni is OOP).

Whole cosmic saga started in Annihalion is good read, ofcourse there are also some awful stories in it, but GOTG and Nova (also Abnett and Lanning) works better as a part of whole cosmic narrative.

Oh dear that is way more complex than I imagined. I haven't heard of the cosmic saga before.

I guess it is this sort of thing that puts me off Marvel and DC -basically I haven't got a clue where to start. So I thought "let's just go with a writer I really like, such as Dan Abnett".

It is even more frustrating when you compare to 2000AD where I like to think I have a reasonable grasp on what's what.

Here is the reading order,hope it helps.
https://i.imgur.com/N7OXfyI.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/N7OXfyI.jpg)
Its really worth it.

Thanks that should definitely help.

Wow the physical books are very expensive

£72 on Amazon for Annihilation Book 1!!!

But only £4.27 for Kindle.

So ...you're sure this is worth it?

It wouldnt be expensive if it wasnt good,right? :)

LOL.

If they are all that price (I haven't checked) that's over 2 grand, so I'll pass. Or at least wait until my reading list is more manageable and get them digitally. But that would involve getting a decent tablet to read them on. Oh well back to Nikolai Dante and the Mega Collection for me (so there is an upside :D )

There's a good chance that some of this material will be reprinted around the GOTG 2 film release.

Well,its good reading.Get it if you can.If you cant,put it on the list.

I've got a Marvel Unlimited subscription, which is great for reading all the old crossovers without spending huge sums of money on Graphic Novels :) Even with the reduced £:$ it's still great value.

But yeah, Post Secret War it's not been as good. I think Marvel Comics have been told to play down any non-MCU property, so Mutants now aren't as prominent (replaced with Inhumans, just like in the MCU), and the lack of the Fantastic Four makes me sad :(

Loving Squirrel Girl though :D

http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/137948-marvel-issues-statement-about-x-men-gold-1-art.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/137948-marvel-issues-statement-about-x-men-gold-1-art.html)
Awkward...

That's up there with a Christian quoting their favourite selective verses from the Bible about homosexuality.  A total own goal.  It's up there with an atheist quoting from Dawkins.  Considering people's view of Islam as an intolerant faith based on the comments and actions of an active, vocal and sometimes homicidal minority this shows very poor judgement on the part of the artist in question.  Having said that, surely we are all entitled to the odd mistake. The question really now is will he take on board feedback and choose a more appropriate way of handling his views?

Quote from: Tjm86 on 09 April, 2017, 07:42:35 AM
Having said that, surely we are all entitled to the odd mistake.

I don't imagine Marvel will take that line. The article talks about 'disciplinary action' - I would be very surprised if they continued to employ him.

Yeah,im afraid this is it for his comic career.At least with any major publisher.

Quote from: Pyroxian on 06 April, 2017, 10:25:48 AMI've got a Marvel Unlimited subscription, which is great for reading all the old crossovers without spending huge sums of money on Graphic Novels :) Even with the reduced £:$ it's still great value.

I'd like to take a crack at that, but, alas, the app still has motion sickness triggers throughout. (I've again written to them with feedback.)

I wouldn't download a modern Marvel comic if it was literally free, but man, there are some solid gold bargains regarding the vintage stuff on Amazon.co.uk right now.
Never read the full run of classic Excalibur, the lot will set you back the price of a coffee and sambo at the moment.

Quote from: Link Prime on 02 June, 2017, 10:27:51 AM
I wouldn't download a modern Marvel comic if it was literally free

Not even an Al Ewing one? Oh Link, truly your Marvel Zombie-dom is behind you. I'm still manning the battlements alone, crying "Excelsior!" whilst the pull-list shrinks and shrinks...

Crying Excelsior or just crying? :|

Quote from: Greg M. on 02 June, 2017, 12:20:28 PM
Oh Link, truly your Marvel Zombie-dom is behind you.

There is literally nothing they could do to win me back as a customer at this stage.

I'd snub Fantastic Four 646 by Moore & Gibbons if it was 99p.

The last Marvel comic I bought was a Captain America pocket book for £3 from some cheapo bookshop.

Art by Steranko, Sinnott, Kirby, Palmer, Romita, Buscema, Colan. What more could someone want?

Lettering by the legend Artie Simek.

Story? Load of tosh, in particular [spoiler]the bit where Captain America was turned into the Red Skull then after many episodes he realised he was wearing a mask that he was able to take off[/spoiler]. Dialogue hackneyed and melodramatic. And cosmic cube my ****.

But a whole load of fun and on the basis of that and in particular the art I rate it as brilliant.

Other than that, I can't remember the last time I bought a Marvel comic. Of no interest.

Yep there's some REAL bargains to be had at the Kindle Store right now. I've finally bought The Visions - all twelve issues for like £4.50, All of the Waid DD issues I lost touch with (after the first run finished and they stopped doing those cool little hardcovers) £5.80 - got the first volume of the new run by Soule to try that as well. Ellis Excalibur which I've never read for £4.30 and finally (well for now I'm checking out Ewing's stuff none of which had caught my eye before now, but at these prices...) The Allred Silver Surfer stuff, no big fan of Slott but Allred, Silver Surfer, crazy cheap, has to be worth trying right?

Nice deals to be had!

Seeing its Tom King,you were probably ripped off.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 02 June, 2017, 02:42:32 PM
The Allred Silver Surfer stuff, no big fan of Slott but Allred, Silver Surfer, crazy cheap, has to be worth trying right?

I am a big fan of Slott, but whilst I like his Surfer, I don't like it quite as much as I want to. The art is, of course, wonderful - if nothing else, you've got your money's worth there - but the dynamic between Mr Radd and his companion is extremely NuWho, and their relationship is very much the focus of the comic. Problem is, I don't find Dawn Greenwood that interesting - a bit too much in the 'plucky ordinary girl brings her homespun Earth wisdom to space' / Rose Tyler mould.

Quote from: Link Prime on 02 June, 2017, 10:27:51 AM
I wouldn't download a modern Marvel comic if it was literally free, but man, there are some solid gold bargains regarding the vintage stuff on Amazon.co.uk right now.
Never read the full run of classic Excalibur, the lot will set you back the price of a coffee and sambo at the moment.

The sales are on the North American Amazon as well. 3 bucks for Masterworks is an insane deal.

Still going. If you've not yet go fill ya boots. Irritatingly though volume 2 of Miracle Man seems to have missed the blip and is still like 14 quid or summit ... which is the present time feels like daylight robbery!

The master plan to get everyone to merge their Amazon & Comixolgy accounts has worked.
You fools!

Seriously though, didn't realise I had so many comics in Kindle format that I'd never bothered with (the Kindle comic reader was pretty poor if I recall).
Shame all of those Dredd case files I bought cheap a few years ago didn't transfer over to Comixology with everything else.

Anyone recommend that Night Raven collection?

Yeah,that was pretty fun pulp(ish) book,so get if you like that sort of thing.

Quote from: Link Prime on 04 June, 2017, 10:28:49 AM

Anyone recommend that Night Raven collection?

Arh but mine was already merged as the Kindle eReader was bloomin' terrible for comics so I fooled them. Got me cheap comics for nowt!

As for Night Raven I had that back in the day and its pretty cool - well had an old trade which I assume will be the same or near as damn it. Nice short (often one page) tales with glorious art. Pretty straightforward stuff but for bobbins well worth it.

True, there is practically no risk at these prices.
Purchased.