2000 AD Online Forum

I mean, not only is he the worst-drawn strip in play at the moment but the plot is shockingly dull. And as if this wasn't bad enough it has to be the vehicle for redressing imbalances elsewhere in 2000AD land: so it gets the black lesbian. How about making her disabled?
Armitage - how Dredd would look if designed by Gordon Brown and Mandy.

Mod edit: Thread title changed to be less abrasive. You can obviously see what it was, just changed it to be more respectful.

Proudhuff bugs out for the Dug out

This should be good...

Ahh, it's alright. I've seen a lot worse in the Megazine. Personally I love Dave Stone's Brit-Cit, even if the latest story isn't exactly bursting with energy.  I kind of miss the crime Overlords and the Star Chamber though, they were what made Armitage's city really different from Dredd's one.  I want to see The Dragon and The Behemoth again

I don't think I'm going there! ;D

Recent Armitage hasn't done it for me.  Never been a massive favourite of mine, but I did enjoy the re-read of the collected story in the last Megazine 'freebee'.

I like Armitage. A lot.

How about "not even remotely"...?  It's a great setting, with believable, engaging characters, clever plots, and the recent art by John Cooper is terrific.  I'd like to see it around for at least one story a year!

I like the art and I'm giving the story time to develop. It's diverting enough and, given there's been good stuff in the Meg lately, I'm in wait-and-see mode.

Delingpole, there was a bit of an argument on this board a few weeks ago about Steel being black and gay, and whether it represented some sort of tokenism or political correctness. Dave Stone insisted - in the strongest possible terms - the character's ethnicity and sexual orientation are irrelevant to the story. I've seen nothing in the story that would lead me to disagree with him.

But Dog Deever's in the Ku Klux Klan.  ;) ;) ;) (Don't burn me, Bruce!)

- Trout

okay in the interest of Peace and Love ( Ringo style) there was a bit of a kerfuffle on this thread http://2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,25348.0.html (http://2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,25348.0.html) about this, I think most aspects were, er, discussed ;D

I've been back and forth on this one myself, while not approving in any way of the wording in the title of this thread, or how the OP phrases some of his points, which IMHO are unnecessarily rude.  

Armitage has had some great runs in the past (an excellent Judgement Day tie-in, for example, not something you hear very often), and I suspect that once the plot becomes more apparent this current series will read better.  Right now it's too full of annoying niggles for me to really enjoy it, but I'm prepared to give it time.  I feel Dave is trading on our familiarity with the characters and setting to keep our interest, while he teases us with morsels of a mystery rather than creating a plot that advances in an independently satisfying way, but I'm afraid that the strips uneven history and sporadic appearances are working against him here.

As to the art, I think the Cooper's drawing is grand, I'm just not keen on the page layouts or how PS graded grays are used to fill in the backgrounds.  I felt the same way about some early Ezquerra PS experiments, and like Carlos, John is improving.  While I like Dave Stone's Brit Cit, I think that the extreme retro look of much of the set dressing (fully established in the first series, as I recently realised) needs to be jettisoned.

I've said all I want to say about Treasure Steel elsewhere, suffice to report that I don't agree with Delingpole on that one either.

I'll pass judgement at  the end, but for now Armitage is welcome in my Meg.

Quote from: Delingpole on 14 August, 2009, 01:02:59 PM
. How about making her disabled?

Funny you should mention that but she did lose a hand in one of the early stories, think she got a transplant.   :P

QuoteYes, Treasure's skin-tone is somewhere on the Pantone-scale somewhere other than those who like in rural Buckinghamshire or wherever consider Flesh.

Did that come off the keyboard of an actual writer, or did I just imagine that?

I for one quite like Treasure Steel. I don't think there's any shock value in her multiple minority status. I think Dave Stone's done a good job of making mixed-race lesbian parenthood quite mundane: surely his intention? I don't mind Armitage on the whole. Especially when it steers clear of anything involving science.

There is nothing wrong with Dave Stone's artwork its just that the scripts can tend to drag a little. But at the end of the day it is a detective story. Inspector morse, a touch of frost etc. Dull dull dull. (sits and waits for the abuse to flow)







V

I think the problem with Armitage is its lack of frequency - it's not in enough Megs to feel like a constant, developing strip. I did a Megazine check on all published Armitage stories:

Quote"Armitage" (with Sean Phillips, in Judge Dredd Megazine #1.09-14, 1991)
"The Case of the Detonating Dowager" (with Sean Phillips, in Judge Dredd Yearbook 1993, 1992)
"Influential Circles" (with Charlie Adlard, in Judge Dredd Megazine #2 10-2.18, 1992)
"Flashback" (with Charlie Adlard, in Judge Dredd Megazine #2 19-2.21, 1993)
"Flashback II" (with Charlie Adlard, in Judge Dredd Megazine #2.31-2.33, 1993)
"City of the Dead Prologue" (with Peter Doherty, in Judge Dredd Megazine #2.63, 1994)
"City of the Dead" (with Charles Gillespie, in Judge Dredd Megazine #2.64-2.71, 1994-1995)
"Little Assassins" (with Adrian Salmon, in Judge Dredd Mega Special 1996)
"Bodies of Evidence" (with Steve Yeowell, in Judge Dredd Megazine #3.64-67, 2000)
"Apostasy in the UK" (with John Ridgway, in Judge Dredd Megazine #212-213, 2003)
"Dumb Blond" (with John Cooper, in Judge Dredd Megazine #266-ongoing, 2008-ongoing)

To put it into some perspective, since 1995 - 14 years ago - we've had four Meg Armitage strips (and one Mega-Special story) - I've underlined them. Four strips in nearly a decade and a half means it's hard to get that excited by the character. Imagine Stront, Rogue, Dante etc with that amount of story content in 14 years, the strips would never excite people. I guess Armitage has never really wowed the Meg editors or the writer, Dave Stone ,just wasn't that interested in it.

I have always really wanted to like Armitage - I mean, it's the perfect set up - a cynical, educated British detective in Dredd's world - but despite different writers and artists, this ideal premise has never been able to live up to it's potential.

I honestly don't know why I have always found Armitage stories somehow disappointing, but I feel it's a strip that may one day find the right writer and produce some amazing stuff.

So c'mon all you "creative common" bods - pitch Tharg a REALLY great Armitage story!

<stifles uproarious laughter>  :D

I can't see that comment going down well with Armitage's writer and creator!

I've got no beef with the creator - It's a GREAT creation - but why has it never been a great critical success? Why has there never been a great Armitage epic?  It just seems that, even though this thread may be a bit unnecessarily negative, I can't ever recall a hugely popular Armitage review. I'm genuinely puzzled - I cannot fault any of the elements that make up the Armitage stories, (characters, plots, artwork) but I've never been really THRILLED or gripped by it. Am I alone in this?

QuoteI've got no beef with the creator - It's a GREAT creation - but why has it never been a great critical success? Why has there never been a great Armitage epic?  It just seems that, even though this thread may be a bit unnecessarily negative, I can't ever recall a hugely popular Armitage review. I'm genuinely puzzled - I cannot fault any of the elements that make up the Armitage stories, (characters, plots, artwork) but I've never been really THRILLED or gripped by it. Am I alone in this?

Well, fans like and dislike all sorts of characters so I doubt you're alone in not liking Armitage. I'm sure there's someone out there that doesn't like Dredd!  

I think an Armitage epic is a great idea. Perhaps a bit too late now, but it certainly would have worked a decade or so ago when the character was reasonably fresh. As I mentioned, I guess the lack of a consistent long run has failed to make it a fan favourite. In hindsight, it should have had a few more stories.

Quote from: dandontdare on 15 August, 2009, 12:04:23 AM
I have always really wanted to like Armitage - I mean, it's the perfect set up - a cynical, educated British detective in Dredd's world - but despite different writers and artists, this ideal premise has never been able to live up to it's potential.

I honestly don't know why I have always found Armitage stories somehow disappointing, but I feel it's a strip that may one day find the right writer and produce some amazing stuff.

Pretty much how I feel. Every time a new Armitage story appears I get quite excited and really want to like it, but it somehow indefinably falls short of what I want from it each time. When I see it's coming I think 'Great - Armitage!' - but by the time it ends I'm just thinking 'Thank God that's over.'

Like DDD, I can't fault many of the individual elements of the strip, but for some reason the work as a whole rarely seems to catch fire.


Thread title's a bit harsh, though. Can we get it changed?

Quote from: planetoid on 15 August, 2009, 04:13:10 AM
I'm sure there's someone out there that doesn't like Dredd!

Nope. I started a thread looking for one and nobody owned up.

People who don't like Dredd don't read 2000AD, or at least don't post here.

Anyway, Armitage has picked up nicely in the new Meg (288). I enjoyed it.

- Trout

"How crap is Armitage?": the real origin of the name Armitage is "one who came from, or lived near the habitation of a hermit" but its most famous use here in the UK is the enamelled logo on millions of toilets "Armitage Shanks".

Do you think that was (perhaps subliminally) the title's original inspiration?

Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 15 August, 2009, 10:18:24 AM
Every time a new Armitage story appears I get quite excited

*searches data banks - - - no matches*

Nope: doesn't ring a bell.

Quote from: virgil on 15 August, 2009, 11:22:17 AM
but its most famous use here in the UK is the enamelled logo on millions of toilets "Armitage Shanks".

Do you think that was (perhaps subliminally) the title's original inspiration?

This theme has been explored in the strip itself. No doubt someone will tell you which story arc. I'm guessing "Flashback I" or "Flasback II."

ha! i knew it. there I was, taking a leak, and it just jumped up at me (the logo on the porcelain, that is)

Maybe John Wagner should be writing Armitage?

I'm sure Dave Stone would love that suggestion.  :P  :-[

When all is said and done, it's the writer that makes or breaks the character. If a lot of fans think Armitage is dull, it's Stone's fault. He hasn't made the character and the world exciting enough. I don't mind Armitage, I think it's okay, but look at how Wagner developed Dredd and compare it with Stone's development of Armitage. There's no comparison. Dredd became a rich world full of great plots, imagination and humour and Armitage appears every few years for a few weeks and goes again!  :D Wagner spent years developing Dredd, same is true with other writers on other characters, Stone has written a handful of Armitage tales in twenty years.

But if Dave Stone wanted to write a 10-page Armitage (Steel?) story for every issue of The Megazine, and get paid for it, do you suppose the editor would take him up on it? No, I don't think so either. So I don't think we can put the blame entirely at Dave Stone's door for the infrequency of the strip's appearance. You can, however, hold him responsible for the content of the stories he writes.

QuoteBut if Dave Stone wanted to write a 10-page Armitage (Steel?) story for every issue of The Megazine, and get paid for it, do you suppose the editor would take him up on it? No, I don't think so either.

QuoteSince 1995 - 14 years ago - we've had 4 Meg Armitage strips (and one Mega-Special story) Four strips in nearly a decade and a half means it's hard to get that excited by the character. Imagine Stront, Rogue, Dante etc with that amount of story content in 14 years, the strips would never excite people.

There must be some reason why Armitage has had just 4 stories in the last 14 years. Not popular with the fan base? The editors, David Bishop and Alan Barnes, not interested in Armitage? Dave Stone not interested in Armitage? Who knows, but the lack of real enthusiasm for Armitage must come down to its sparse appearances in the Meg. Compare Armitage to strips like Missionary Man, Shimura, Anderson. They had smaller time gaps between stories.

How many characters from the early Meg days are still in the Meg?  Dredd, Anderson and Armitage. I think that's it. Strips like Missionary Man, Simping Detective, Shimura etc seem to have finished for good. Armitage is the last of the Meg's old boys, from the class of 1990. He's showing his age, his back is hurting him more than it did in Judge Dredd The Megazine issue 1, the bones creak that bit more, but he's still going strong.  :)

Quote from: planetoid on 15 August, 2009, 02:29:33 PM
the lack of real enthusiasm for Armitage must come down to its sparse appearances in the Meg.

That's a false conclusion. It might just be because Armitage is boring. I'm not saying that is the reason; it's just one you've discounted without weighing it up.

You know, I've never understood the love for Shimura. If it came to choosing between Armitage and Shimura stories appearing in the Megazine I wouldn't be able to express any preference.

QuoteThere must be some reason why Armitage has had just 4 stories in the last 14 years.

With the exception of Anderson and maybe Devlin, very few early Meg characters have had more Meg stories than that since 1995 (more common are late starters like Young Middenface, Missionary Man and Simping Detective).  For a good chunk of that time there was one (or less) supporting strip sandwiched between Dredd and reprint.  There really hasn't been a lot of room until relatively recently, and Armitage has had a share of that.  

QuoteThat's a false conclusion. It might just be because Armitage is boring. I'm not saying that is the reason; it's just one you've discounted without weighing it up.

You know, I've never understood the love for Shimura. If it came to choosing between Armitage and Shimura stories appearing in the Megazine I wouldn't be able to express any preference.

Well I didn't want to be rude to Armitage and say it was boring.  ;) I was going the diplomatic route.

Oh boy- I'm staying oot o' it this time!

I'm off to dust off the sash and sharpen ma pointy hat...

Damn that lost 'infinity edit' button...

Heh, I just found this:

Dark Jimbo - "Can we change the thread title" - Seriously? Some of you out there are so easily offended that you'd change the title of someone else's thread?

How many people would have read it if it had been less (deliberately) provocative?

And when it boils down to it I'm with Dan don't Dare - I want to like Armitage, it's just that he David Jason in Frost without the humour. His main weapon is grumpiness. Treasure Steel's main characteristic is "tough single mum". I'm interested in the possibilities of Brit Cit and it's Judges but when we get crass revelations like "All the senior judges turn out to be Freemasons" I lose interest quickly and get back to a story with some action.

I feel future Britain has been sold short.

I would love to see a Dredd World Brit Cit story which looked more like the Britain that we see in the Strontium Dog stories (pre the Atomic War of 2150).

Obviously a link has already been established (Johnny's world is still a potential future for Dredd) but I would love to see things like Upminster in a Dredd story or even a young Norman Kreelman.

Plus I would love a redesign of the Brit Cit Judge uniform cos its really only Brendan McCarthy who's ever been able to pull it off.

Can't we have Inspector Judges with caps (with those ear flaps Ezquerra loves) instead of just the Lion Head Helmets on everyone.

Quote from: Richard Field on 18 August, 2009, 06:28:12 PM
Obviously a link has already been established (Johnny's world is still a potential future for Dredd)

Is it though? I thought it was established on another thread that Johnny's world is the inevitable future for Dredd's, not a potential one.

Alert, alert.

Having noticed the assuredly welcoming title of the thread, but not having read it yet, I now have a few beers in and a couple of hours till Chuck and You Have Been Watching start.

I shall now start reading the thread.

You have been warned.

"Is it though? I thought it was established on another thread that Johnny's world is the inevitable future for Dredd's, not a potential one."

If this is the case can we seriously crack on and get a Brit Cit story in the Dredd timeline which feels like the Britain of SD.(Oh and can you remember which thread it was. I'm guessing its that Al Ewing story in a recent Meg though isn't it. The Alpha File one.)

Get Carlos on the case. I would love to see some circuit Judges working Milton Keynes (I'm assuming there must be already mutations in this area for it to be such a ghetto come the time of Johnny Alpha. 

Quote from: Delingpole on 18 August, 2009, 05:37:59 PM
Dark Jimbo - "Can we change the thread title" - Seriously? Some of you out there are so easily offended that you'd change the title of someone else's thread?

I couldn't care less, but the creators would probably feel differently. Doesn't take much to be a bit more respectful - could have called it 'Why I don't like Armitage', for instance.

And how exactly do you imagine that I would change your thread title?

Okay, read the thread. Nothing to set me off on one or bother to talk about. Go about your business.

Chuck's on in five minutes - best new US thing on at the moment for any number of reasons.

Quote from: Richard Field on 18 August, 2009, 09:12:09 PM
"Is it though? I thought it was established on another thread that Johnny's world is the inevitable future for Dredd's, not a potential one."

If this is the case can we seriously crack on and get a Brit Cit story in the Dredd timeline which feels like the Britain of SD.(Oh and can you remember which thread it was. I'm guessing its that Al Ewing story in a recent Meg though isn't it. The Alpha File one.)

I've got a better idea. Can we just accept that the crossovers are a bit of light-hearted, fan-pleasing fun and while they may or may not be in the same timeline, it's all fuzzy enough that we can take or leave it and there is absolutely no imperative whatsoever for a defining say in the matter and leave it at that?

Thats all well and good but it doesn't change the fact that Brit Cit has never really felt like it belongs to the same world as Dredd. There's something about the design of the place that just seems wrong somehow in my opinion.

QuoteI would love to see a Dredd World Brit Cit story which looked more like the Britain that we see in the Strontium Dog stories (pre the Atomic War of 2150).

Can't we have Inspector Judges with caps (with those ear flaps Ezquerra loves) instead of just the Lion Head Helmets on everyone.

QuoteThats all well and good but it doesn't change the fact that Brit Cit has never really felt like it belongs to the same world as Dredd. There's something about the design of the place that just seems wrong somehow in my opinion.

I reckon the link between MC-1 and Strontium Dog's Britain (becoming Brit-Cit) is a bit tenuous and was done so John Wagner could write a story featuring Dredd and Alpha.  :-* I don't think the two countries really exist in the same timeline nor on the same planet.  Dredd and Alpha meeting made for a great cross-over story - a good 'what if?' scenario - but it shouldn't be taken too seriously. When I read Strontium Dog I never think Britain will become the Brit-Cit of the future.

Wikipedia:

QuoteEarth wasn't often seen in the strip. When it was, the focus was often New Britain - Great Britain after a devastating nuclear war. It is much closer to modern-day Britain than Judge Dredd's Brit-Cit by the same writers, but contains areas of nuclear devastation like the Greater London Crater and Birmingham Gap; areas known to survive include Salisbury (now a major area and political centre), Glasgow, Newcastle, Dover, Christchurch & Bournemouth (now a combined conurbation), Cardiff, Isles of Scilly, and Winchester. The flying building of Upminster contains both the parliament and the monarchy.

The nuclear war in Strontium Dog wasn't the Atomic war in Dredd's world. I think John Wagner created Strontium Dog to be separate from Dredd's world but decided the cross-over story was too tempting to ignore.

QuoteThe nuclear war in Strontium Dog wasn't the Atomic war in Dredd's world. I think John Wagner created Strontium Dog to be separate from Dredd's world but decided the cross-over story was too tempting to ignore.

All true.  But as discussed not too long ago, I'd argue that when Johnny leaves a letter for Harvey in a MC-1 solictors' office in Top Dogs, Wagner deliberately places the two in the same continuous timeline.  Still, I've no absolutely interest in forcing the two to match up.  There's a million reasons why the timelines might diverge and the (next) Great Atom War never happen in Dredd's world - not least MC-1's awareness of that future, as documented in the recent Ewing Harry Lime tale.

QuoteBut as discussed not too long ago, I'd argue that when Johnny leaves a letter for Harvey in a MC-1 solictors' office in Top Dogs, Wagner deliberately places the two in the same continuous timeline.  Still, I've no absolutely interest in forcing the two to match up.  There's a million reasons why the timelines might diverge and the (next) Great Atom War never happen in Dredd's world.

From a factual perspective there's no denying the worlds co-exist in the same timeline but I don't think that was Wagner's original intention. I think he wrote Stront to be separate. I think you can take it or leave it. It was fun to see Dredd and Alpha pulling punches and then coming together in Judgement Day but you don't have to take it too seriously.

QuoteI think he wrote Stront to be separate.

Agreed.  Especially seeing as they started in different comics!

Armitage suffers from being a slow-burn strip in a monthly meg - its easy to see why people are bored or disinterested in it but
1) it tends to read really great in one sitting
2) the art is great - seriously great. Cooper deserves respect and his powers haven't diminished.
3) anyone who thinks armitage is the worst thing in the meg right now.... rilly? RILLY??



The reprint last month was great too.

so YEY! ARMITAGE!
and BOO SUCKS to the naysayers.



(oh yeah and No supporting characters exactly overload the Meg - still waiting near 3 years for Devlin Waugh 'to be continued....'

Sorry Dark Jimbo, it's just that when you said:

Quote

Thread title's a bit harsh, though. Can we get it changed?

Quote

I thought you might have some sort of bowdlerising capabilities. You are, after all, a Battle Hardened War Robot and I'm languishing on Mek Quake's trash heap.

To reassure you, Delingpole, the moderators and the board in general are very sensibly opposed to any censorship of posts, except in the cases of spamming or wanton trollery.  However, you can expect some of us to wish you'd phrased your thread title differently.  No-one's objecting to you having an opinion, and you made some coherent points in your post, but starting by asserting something is  'crap' is just plain rude... or seems that way to me, at least. 

I would however make exceptions for: "How shite was Frank Miller's Dredd cover?",  "How evil is King Trout?", "How big a plonker is Mark Millar?" , and "How easy is Godpleton's Mum?".

Quote"How easy is Godpleton's Mum?".

Takes one to know one.

QuoteFrom a factual perspective there's no denying the worlds co-exist in the same timeline but I don't think that was Wagner's original intention. I think he wrote Stront to be separate. I think you can take it or leave it. It was fun to see Dredd and Alpha pulling punches and then coming together in Judgement Day but you don't have to take it too seriously.

I'll go along with that.  As far as I'm concerned, Al Ewing sorted it out:  Now that they know SD world is a possible future, they can stop it happening.  Comics continuity is just a massive pain in the hole

Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 20 August, 2009, 12:56:12 PM
Now that they know SD world is a possible future, they can stop it happening. 

Whilst conversely, Dredd's world is a possible past for SD.

Everything becomes slippery as whenever time travel is invoked.

Quote from: Grant Goggans on 14 August, 2009, 02:22:54 PM
How about "not even remotely"...?  It's a great setting, with believable, engaging characters, clever plots, and the recent art by John Cooper is terrific.  I'd like to see it around for at least one story a year!

Hear hear!

I love Armitage, Dave Stone's Brit-Cit is the definitive version (it's a shame Wagner doesn't adopt the Stone interpretation as it's really jarring when he writes something Brit-Cit orientated).  The characters are real and vibrant, who cares if they're gay or black?  Nobody makes a big thing out of Armitage being old, white and straight? 

It's the 2000s, people.  Let's just take it as a story, And one I really enjoy.  I'd take Armitage as a regular supporting strip over Tank Girl any day.

I think the thread should be altered to:

How crap is Armitage? if Dave Stone didn't visit the board and post but as he does, let's say Armitage is quite good instead

:D

I like Armitage. It's Inspector Morse with more muscles and set in the future.  ;)

Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 20 August, 2009, 12:56:12 PMAs far as I'm concerned, Al Ewing sorted it out:  Now that they know SD world is a possible future, they can stop it happening. 

On the contrary, they absolutely have to ensure it happens. Alpha was an essential part of ending Judgement Day. Without him, the world dies.

It's one thing to change the future; it's another thing to change a future that has already affected the past.

QuoteComics continuity is just a massive pain in the hole

For DC and Marvel, perhaps, but for 2000AD it's remarkably coherent. I've said it before, I'll say it now and I'll say it in the future: the timeline is not a problem, it's an opportunity to tell some very, very interesting stories.


Regards

Robin

Quote from: Robin Low on 24 August, 2009, 10:03:20 PM
On the contrary, they absolutely have to ensure it happens. Alpha was an essential part of ending Judgement Day. Without him, the world dies.

It's one thing to change the future; it's another thing to change a future that has already affected the past.

It's intriguing to think about that little slice of crossoverage.  On ONE hand it could be theorised that, because Alpha hsa already affected the past his (and thereby his world's) existence is assured.  Since he's already come back in time to save the world, that world, even if it should avert the catastrophe that spawned him, would possibly continue to exist as a parallel dimension?

I think?

My head hurts.

A brilliant heated discussion about this between Toby Longworth's Dredd and Simon Pegg's excellent Alpha can be found in the big finish auidio "Pre-Emptive Revenge" by Jonathan Clements.  Excellent scene that almost justifies the existence of the audios on it's own.

My reading of "The Americans" was that Dredd and MC1 were keeping their possible involvement in the future near-destruction of Brit-Cit firmly under their hat to ensure that Alpha's world would come to pass.  Easily one of the best "done in one" Dredds in a long time. 

Alpha's arrival to Dredd's timeline could be explained in that he cad come from a future of another dimension wherein the time shift crossed over to Dredd's dimension thus cancelling out Alpha's world a future of Dredd's.






V

Quote from: vzzbux on 24 August, 2009, 10:29:42 PM
Alpha's arrival to Dredd's timeline could be explained in that he cad come from a future of another dimension wherein the time shift crossed over to Dredd's dimension thus cancelling out Alpha's world a future of Dredd's.

True enough, but if you were Dredd (or anyone with anything like authority in MC1) would you be willing to take the chance?  Not based on what I think we know about the character. 

Quote from: Mike Gloady on 24 August, 2009, 10:22:47 PMMy reading of "The Americans" was that Dredd and MC1 were keeping their possible involvement in the future near-destruction of Brit-Cit firmly under their hat to ensure that Alpha's world would come to pass.  Easily one of the best "done in one" Dredds in a long time. 

Yes, I was rather wary of that story, but when I finally read it I was extremely impressed.

At the start of Portrait of a Mutant it says that "nobody knew who fired the first missile". It could be there was a lot of politics leading up to that point, but since there's no speculation as to who was directly involved almost suggests a sudden, random act of madness. This fits well with the idea that MC1 has to do something terrible to ensure the world's survival. I can only think of one person who could do it.

Regards

Robin

Just to say (in a hopefully non-contentious way) that I simply can't imagine why anyone would care if I read what they say and respond to it.

I get the uneasy feeling some people think I'm this bastard cross between some Figure in Authority, abusing his lofty position to browbeat the plebs, and a service-provider to be taken to task for not providing the exact service they require - and I'm neither.

I just sit here and write stuff I feel like writing, on Live Journal, in emails, on the forums for the games I play, in various Usenet groups back in the day. Very occasionally the stuff I write happens to be in the form of a Word attachment, and even more occasionally that leads to the godawful score in my bank account going up a bit - but frankly I don't see much of a distinction.

I mean, God, come on, it's not like I'm Wagner, Gaiman, Morrison or something - and if you've just sprayed whatever it is you're drinking out of your nose at the thought, that's exactly my point.

Insert smiley.

Proper Dave just reminded me what the title of this thread is.  For some reason it's become "The JD/SD Crossover Connundrum Contentions" (far more interesting than the original question).

But going BACK to the original title of the thread, I think after thousands of years of human endeavour it's clear by now that if we don't like something we can always exercise our grud-given right to go and do something else.

Quote from: vzzbux on 24 August, 2009, 10:29:42 PM
Alpha's arrival to Dredd's timeline could be explained in that he cad come from a future of another dimension wherein the time shift crossed over to Dredd's dimension thus cancelling out Alpha's world a future of Dredd's.

Good grief, don't you think things are complicated enough as they are without bringing other dimensions into it? Sure, we know they exist within the setting, there's no reason to add them to this situation.

Regards

Robin

Regarding the Dredd and Alpha universes...

It's interesting how Dredd has become a little more pro-mutant in recent years. Prior to Origins, Dredd took an active dislike of Johnny Alpha. He tolerated him at best, disliked him at worst. But now? They could be friends. Perhaps Dredd would invite Johnny round for a game of put the tail on Walter the wobot.  :D

Quote from: Proper Dave on 24 August, 2009, 10:48:33 PM
Just to say (in a hopefully non-contentious way) that I simply can't imagine why anyone would care if I read what they say and respond to it.

Possibly because there are certain writers out there (non-2000 AD writers) who have a wonderful Internet Tough Guy reputation of turning into a complete tool online whenever anybody starts a thread about their work.  Dave, when it comes to commentary about your work, we'd all like to believe you're cooler than those guys, and wouldn't wade into a thread like, say, Gail Simone or Peter David (who's in the thick of some argument about whether boycotting Orson Scott Card is a violation of Card's freedom of speech even as we speak), but internet commentary of funnybooks as a whole kind of feels like it's on tenuous ground since some creators are so amazingly thin-skinned.

And that goes along with the reality that certain 2000 AD readers out there have also made some really poor choices in their recent criticisms, and the users of this forum were, rightly, reminded, that we're all supposed to be better than that.  I think we all like playing here, and don't wish to lose the privilege, and so there's a general walkin'-on-eggshells feeling around this site lately.  The thread title certainly made me wince, anyway.

QuoteOn the contrary, they absolutely have to ensure it happens. Alpha was an essential part of ending Judgement Day. Without him, the world dies.

Not so!  The events of City of the Damned show that's not how time paradoxes work in the Dreddverse.  Zombie Dredd's corpse still lay in the Black Museum/rampaged across the Moon even when the 2120 timeline was changed.  Ergo elements from alternate futures can still affect the past, even when those futures are no longer 'our' future.  

Arguing with Robin about continuity!  Now, about that land war in Asia...

Quote from: Grant Goggans on 25 August, 2009, 07:37:30 AM
...who's in the thick of some argument about whether boycotting Orson Scott Card is a violation of Card's freedom of speech even as we speak...

Interestingly enough, Orson Scott Card wrote a review on amazon defending his style in "Ender's Game" to all the "bashers" (his book is rated 4 or  stars, if I recall correctly) that wrote bad reviews.

I'm torn. Sometimes, it's nice to hear what creators have to say, and sometimes it's okay for them to defend their work if the bashing gets out of hand. But most times I think creators, because they're so passionate about what they do, step over the line. This only serves to make those that didn't care for the work then turn around and say, "and he's an arse too". I suppose it's best if when the work is finished, cast it out there and let it live or die on it's own - realistically, maybe it's not easy to do that.

Now, I'm not saying Proper Dave is guilty of this - though to be honest if I wrote something and turned around and saw a thread entitled "such-and-such is crap" I'd have to take a look and probably would comment.

EVERYTHING IN 2000AD IS SHITE AND ALL THE CREATORS ARE WANKERS!

Not really.

- Trout

QuoteI suppose it's best if when the work is finished, cast it out there and let it live or die on it's own - realistically, maybe it's not easy to do that.

Agreed.  But...

...it's always nice to hear from creators.  Off the top of my head I've enjoyed contributions and even clarifications on this forum from Rob Williams, John Smith, Colin McNeill, PJ Holden, Tony Lee, Lee Carter, Gorden Rennie, Alec Worley, Frazer Irving, Nigel Dobbyn, Al Ewing and yes, Dave Stone.  I suppose Sprout/Michael Carroll counts too, but like PJ and Grennie he's part of the furniture.  Other than perennial fanboys and forum graduates, I think you'd have to be nuts to dip your toe in here, but I certainly appreciate that so many do.

...there's no excuse for our being rude, particularly to a contributor to the comic which after all is the only reason we're here.  You can disagree with someone, you can dislike their work and want to express that here, but that's no reason to be nasty about it.  Criticism=good, poor manners=bad.

By the by, interesting interview with unwilling poster-boy for fan interaction Tony Lee at the link:

http://forbiddenplanet.co.uk/blog/2009/tony's-terrible-tea-time-torture-show-an-interview-with-tony-lee/ (http://forbiddenplanet.co.uk/blog/2009/tony's-terrible-tea-time-torture-show-an-interview-with-tony-lee/)

Addendum:  Dave Sim (yes, him, another famous internet fan-combatant) has an interesting observation on comics creators inteeracting with fans in the text-bits of Mothers and Daughters:  Reads.   He discusses avidly reading new pages of (I think) From Hell while at Eddie Campbell's house, and being annoyed when Eddie tries to talk to him about it (may have been Bone and Jeff Smith).  He contrasts this with the very idea of ignoring Mick Jagger just because he's listening to a recording of Dirty Work.  The 'performance' of comics takes place in your head, and so are several steps further removed from their creators than, say, music.

I'm always saying, this is the friendliest forum on the web, very rarely do things step over the line into anything even approaching rudeness and that's just as it should be.  The people here are also, good natured ribbing aside, incredibly polite and respectful to each other.  The title of this thread annoys me because I think it's very much out of the spirit of the forum - but then we've all been guilty of using the wrong word here and there and I like to think that's what happened here.

Mostly I'd agree with the theory that once you've written something it's out of your hands.  But then think about trying to actually do that.  For it to stand any chance of being good, you put a lot of passion into something you spend a lot of time creating.  It's unavoidable, even on something that you might not particularly care for - after all a job's a job.  Most of the contributors who chip in on the forums are very sensible, considered and decent about it and try not to take umbrage with every minor niggle some users have - after all, it's only subjective opinions.  

"Proper" Dave Stone has chipped in a few times on discussions I've posted on and he's always been funny but balanced.  A little brusque, perhaps at times, but when people use terms like "crap" when they mean "not to my taste" or similar, I'd challenge any of the rest of us not to be a little sharp.

Oh I mostly agree with everything you say, Mr. Gloady. I particularly agree that there's no cause for rudeness towards creators...but then again, are unfavorable reviews that much different? I've read my share of book, comic and music reviews by "professional venues" that simply (and oftentimes inventively) roast a work, rake the creators over the coals and advise other not to even bother. I doubt mmany creators take the time to email these critics and spar with them.

Take Stephen King, for example (since we've been discussing him). Has there ever been a contemporary writer that is so polarizing as far as his output? Some call him a genious, others call him a hack. And he's been the subject of some pretty lousy reviews in print and online. Other authors have dismissed him openly. Yet he remains humble, discusses his work and bad reviews with a level head and continues on.

It's the internet, so we who throw our words onto it remain faceless. The creator is a public figure, so when he slags a hostile poster it becomes "a big deal" and he looks like an "arse". Also, he plays right into the haters' hands. They remain anonymous while he then becomes a hack and a rude bastard at the same time.

That said, I do like to hear what a creator has to say about his work - I just don't need a defense against bad reviews or hateful forum posters. The best writers are those that are confident in what they've released into the creative realm.

Quote from: TordelBack on 25 August, 2009, 07:40:25 AM

QuoteOn the contrary, they absolutely have to ensure it happens. Alpha was an essential part of ending Judgement Day. Without him, the world dies.

Not so!  The events of City of the Damned show that's not how time paradoxes work in the Dreddverse.  Zombie Dredd's corpse still lay in the Black Museum/rampaged across the Moon even when the 2120 timeline was changed.  Ergo elements from alternate futures can still affect the past, even when those futures are no longer 'our' future.  

Arguing with Robin about continuity!  Now, about that land war in Asia...

The lives of every living creature on the planet are in your hands. Do you want to risk it?


Regards

Robin

i for one have been enjoying it as i missed all the armitages previously and welcome the gn in the meg...if you dont like it say so grown uply and leave it at that. i dont like dante...never have.nowt against the creators,just aint got into it. we dont want you sending dave stone any "parcels" now do we? ;)

QuoteDo you want to risk it?

In these circumstances, I follow the WWPDD rule:   What Would Professor Dibworthy Do?  

Quote from: planetoid on 24 August, 2009, 11:22:24 PM
Regarding the Dredd and Alpha universes...

It's interesting how Dredd has become a little more pro-mutant in recent years. Prior to Origins, Dredd took an active dislike of Johnny Alpha. He tolerated him at best, disliked him at worst. But now? They could be friends. Perhaps Dredd would invite Johnny round for a game of put the tail on Walter the wobot.  :D

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of Dredd's dislike of Alpha. In Top Dog Dredd just had a problem with Alpha for breaking the law; his being a mutant in the city was just an additional law broken. In Judgement Day Dredd objected to Alpha because he was a bounty hunter. I don't think Dredd ever had a problem with Alpha or mutants unless they were breaking the law. Over the years, he's been happy enough to come to their aid or team-up with them.

However, with regards to being friends, well, I think Dredd could easily come to understand the predicament that Alpha was in and respect and like him as much as he respects and likes anyone else. In fact, from Dredd's point of view, Alpha would probably make a damn good Judge.

Anyway, Alpha is techinically Dredd's great-grandson by way of the illegitimate child Vienna had in Brit-Cit...

Regards

Robin

Quote from: TordelBack on 25 August, 2009, 11:27:44 AM

QuoteDo you want to risk it?

In these circumstances, I follow the WWPDD rule:   What Would Professor Dibworthy Do?  

Even I'm not going to try to bring Future Shocks into the continuity! That way lies madness...

(And I've no idea what Dibworthy did anyway - I had to Google the blighter.)

Regards

Robin

So TordelBack, What Would Professor Dibworthy Do?  Exactly?

I know what Dredd would do.  He wouldn't take any chances with the welfare of his city, he'd do whatever it takes - even pressing the button on the Brits without provocation if it came down to that.  That's what makes him so compelling as a character, heroic and monstrous in equal measure - Dredd has the moral courage to do what's necessary for the greater good.  No matter what.

I'm an unashamed lover of Armitage (to drag us back onto topic (although I think we've pretty much dealt with it) and loathe Tank Girl with a passion.  Different strokes for different folks, I guess.  Seeing as the meg is, apart from Tank Girl, very well put together and hugely entertaining I'm quite happy to leave one strip slot alone and enjoy the bits I like, as I hope Tank Girl fans who dislike Armitage would do for me.

QuoteSo TordelBack, What Would Professor Dibworthy Do?  Exactly?

The good Professor could never leave well enough alone - whether it was coming back from the future to persuade his past self to take one course or another, or chucking anvils at historical figures, he was always fiddling about with time.  The only constant was that his incessant meddling made for two good stories. 

So WWPDD?  Whatever makes for the best story.

I've just been folding paper and there was a knock at the door.






V

I bought my first Meg around the time of Armitage's second series and I've loved the character and the setting ever since. I'm pleased to see from the summary earlier that during my temporary hiatus I only missed one Armitage story. That's also a real shame because the first two series and the flashbacks, apart from being very entertaining reads, established a protagonist and his nemesis in a setting that was hostile to them both. (Efil Drago San is a criminal but he's more a part of the establishment than poor Armitage ever will be.) The third series seemed a bit disjointed (not helped by that episode where the page order was scrambled) but it added another loose plot thread. I always got the the sense that there was something epic rumbling on in the background, but that it would take years of strip-time to resolve. Now, after years of real-time, it seems to have faded away and we're left with police procedurals. They're good stories, but without that epic and shadowy backdrop I wonder whether Armitage is the best character to tell them with.

Monthly episodes don't help. The slow-burn worked a lot better when the Meg was fortnightly.

I know I started this thread but I wish it would just die and slump into the silt at the bottom of the posting lake as I do feel a little bit guilty about the title. But it bears out my point about catchy/provocative titles. There's more life in 'em.

However, much as I've tried to take your comments on board I still think the current Armitage artwork is pants. I've tried to like it, really I have. I've tried to see some artistic merit in the heavy-handed grey shading, that awful profile of Armitage with the "Bigmouth Billy Bass" lower lip and no teeth, and all I can conclude is that it is really not very good when compared to just about anything else in 2000AD or the Meg. Sorry but there it is.

Know what?

Loathe as I am to keep this thread going (sorry Delingpole) I feel I owe Dave Stone an apology, and this seems a good enough place to do it. I was one of those who accused Treasure Steel's character of being an awful kind of tokenism a little while ago, but it's only having read the collected Meg trades that I've realised that her being a lesbian, for instance, genuinely was incidental to the character - it doesn't get a single mention!

I think my opinion was unduly influenced by her relationship stuff having been very much front and centre in every one of the (few) Armitage stories I had read at that point. Still don't like her much as a character, but that's neither here not there.

So sorry, Dave.

QuoteSo sorry, Dave

What the fuck are you doing??

This is the internet, man- we never apologise!

Yeah, War Marshal Kazan was on the right tack there.

its just a page filler, probably pulled out of a garbage bin cause they have run out of creative material.

Quote...probably pulled out of a garbage bin cause they have run out of creative material.

Bloody hell, that's a bit rough!  The fact that the Meg is 'supporting' the current Armitage with (at least) two reprint collections (or vice versa) during its run shows confidence in the strip.  In fact, it shows an awareness of one of the criticisms leveled at Armitage and Meg strips in general, that they appear at such stretched intervals that its very hard to remember or care about the characters or situations.  Unwanted inventory that has to be run to plug a gap is unlikely to get that kind of treatment.

Here, hands up who's fed up with me popping up on these threads complaining about overly negative posts and offering soppy defenses?  Yeah, me too.  I'll stop.

Quote from: TordelBack on 14 September, 2009, 04:53:11 PM
Unwanted inventory that has to be run to plug a gap

That used to be a huge problem for both 2000ad and the Megazine. I don't think it happens at all any more, does it? I think, with times being as lean as they are, Tharg has to be quite discerning about the strips he commissions. Consequently they get commissioned in short, self-contained runs, and they see print quite promptly. You can't afford to spend the commissioning budget two years in advance and have a backlog of quickly outdated material cluttering up the drawers and have to turn down pitches from top talent because there's nothing to pay for them with.

Quote from: House of Usher on 14 September, 2009, 05:24:48 PM

That used to be a huge problem for both 2000ad and the Megazine. I don't think it happens at all any more, does it? I think, with times being as lean as they are, Tharg has to be quite discerning about the strips he commissions. Consequently they get commissioned in short, self-contained runs, and they see print quite promptly. You can't afford to spend the commissioning budget two years in advance and have a backlog of quickly outdated material cluttering up the drawers and have to turn down pitches from top talent because there's nothing to pay for them with.

Out of interest is this based on any specific information or is this supposition? I agree that there seems to be much more quality material in 2000ad (I can't speak for the Meg) but is this due to times being so hard or is it the fact that there are a lot of quality creators wanting to work for 2000ad?

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 15 September, 2009, 08:24:14 AM
is this based on any specific information or is this supposition?

It's based on building up a picture from bits and pieces of information here and there and filling in the blanks, a bit like the way they reconstruct dinosaurs from an incomplete skeleton. Just things that have appeared in print and things people have said in panel discussions.

QuoteIt's based on building up a picture from bits and pieces of information here and there and filling in the blanks, a bit like the way they reconstruct dinosaurs from an incomplete skeleton.

Heh!
I agree with Ush though- I very much doubt that 2k has so much money knocking about the budget that they can afford to sit on multi-part stories like Armitage for any length of them.
I sopke to Colin McNeil, for example, the week before the first part of Dredd hit the shelves, and he was still drawing part 4 or 5 at the time.

I agree too, but i just love those models so much  - one of my favourite childhood trips.

I knew tordelback wouldn't be able to resist that.  ;)

Its a shame there's not more information on the relative health of 2000ad at the minute. Creatively its certainly seems absolutely fine and with a blossoming trade programme I kinda felt that it was doing ok. The alternative view that House of U put forward and that certainly seems backed up my the Colin McNeil point is of course very possible. I don't think its in danger of being cancelled anytime soon but it'd be good to know it wasn't having to live hand to mouth so to speak or being bolstered by other revenue streams.

The health of the title is a little tough to work out. 

THIS PLACE is vibrant and active, but we're ALWAYS going to be the hardcore.  Those at the periphery to whom it doesn't mean as much are never going to post in the first place, so we're unlikely to spot them leaving.

However Rebellion would hardly be pumping cash into the collections if 1. they weren't making money from them and 2. if the collections weren't doing their secondary job of dragging attention to the prog and meg.  That, plus the new audios, suggest that they're at least comfortable (if not as comfortable as they'd like). 

My local comic shop informs me they've upped their order twice in the last year.  So our evangelism seems to be working, albeit in a small way.

I think the health of the comic is fine.
And it's not unusual for comics to be running close to deadline- which is part of the reason so many US comics come out late, after all.

Quote from: His Lordship rac on 15 September, 2009, 12:13:52 PM
And it's not unusual for comics to be running close to deadline- which is part of the reason so many US comics come out late, after all.

To be honest, it's bad business to have a huge pile of stock (ie - pages) sitting on your books as inventory. 2000AD can cut it closer than most US titles precisely because it's an anthology. Any strip except Dredd can be rested for an issue or two if the artist needs to play catch-up with the handy insertion of a Future Shock or a Terror Tale, so you really only need to have a couple each of them, and a couple of generic Dredds, and you should be able to commission the rest to order.

(Obviously, that's an ideal case scenario - sorry, Matt, I don't mean to make your job sound easy!)

Cheers

Jim

Quote from: Mike Gloady on 15 September, 2009, 12:12:04 PM
The health of the title is a little tough to work out. 

THIS PLACE is vibrant and active, but we're ALWAYS going to be the hardcore.  Those at the periphery to whom it doesn't mean as much are never going to post in the first place, so we're unlikely to spot them leaving.

However Rebellion would hardly be pumping cash into the collections if 1. they weren't making money from them and 2. if the collections weren't doing their secondary job of dragging attention to the prog and meg.  That, plus the new audios, suggest that they're at least comfortable (if not as comfortable as they'd like). 

My local comic shop informs me they've upped their order twice in the last year.  So our evangelism seems to be working, albeit in a small way.

It does make you wonder how out of over 3000+ and growing by the day board members how few of them actually post anything.

As for the comic it would be good to have some up to date sales figures and some clue as to wether sales figures have dropped or increased especially in the last year or so.

With the AvP game out soon that is going to make a LOT of cash for Rebellion which they might use for more reprints and suypport the comic if sales do drop.i dont mind that myself because if sales have dropped or do drop below a certain amount then i am sure it wont be because of the material in it.

I expect Rebellion will make a huge amount of cash out of the game but as its licensed product i am not exactly sure how much of a percentage they have agreed to hand over to 20th Cent Fox or wether Rebellion paid 20th Cent Fox a one off payment to use the characters and develop a game out of them.

Not sure how all that works exactly but its nice to know that if times do get very hard then the comic has some revenue to fall back on if needed.

Rebellion might make so much cash that they could afford to reprint some of those old school black and white strips that i love.

I have started buying my weekly from a newsagents down the road who about 3 weeks or so ago started to stock just a single copy.They sell the Meg and always have done but i always thought it was a bit odd that they didnt sell the weekly and then all of a sudden they did which is good .

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 15 September, 2009, 01:06:49 PM

Quote from: His Lordship rac on 15 September, 2009, 12:13:52 PM
And it's not unusual for comics to be running close to deadline- which is part of the reason so many US comics come out late, after all.

To be honest, it's bad business to have a huge pile of stock (ie - pages) sitting on your books as inventory. 2000AD can cut it closer than most US titles precisely because it's an anthology. Any strip except Dredd can be rested for an issue or two if the artist needs to play catch-up with the handy insertion of a Future Shock or a Terror Tale, so you really only need to have a couple each of them, and a couple of generic Dredds, and you should be able to commission the rest to order.

(Obviously, that's an ideal case scenario - sorry, Matt, I don't mean to make your job sound easy!)

Cheers

Jim

Yeah I agree it makes sense to cut it as close to the wire as you can but when was the last time a strip was delayed? In the old days - when if you read Thrillpower Overload it would seem stock could be built up there were numerous stories delayed, from Nemesis book1 to Zenith Phrase 3 and of course Rogue Trooper War Machine which all spring immediately to mind. This just doesn't seem to happen anymore  - or I'm missing it? Origins had a gap but I really can't remember any other than that in the last few years?


Maybe Tharg has finally just whipped his droids into shape!

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 15 September, 2009, 01:52:23 PM
...when was the last time a strip was delayed? In the old days - when if you read Thrillpower Overload it would seem stock could be built up there were numerous stories delayed, from Nemesis book1 to Zenith Phrase 3 and of course Rogue Trooper War Machine which all spring immediately to mind. This just doesn't seem to happen anymore  - or I'm missing it? Origins had a gap but I really can't remember any other than that in the last few years?

All the time!!! Dead Eyes was delayed by a year or more, Cradlegrave was delayed by something more like two years, Ten Seconders II was so badly delayed three different artists had to be drafted in to ensure it made it to the progs, and most recently John Burns' imminent new Dante saga was put back by months when Si Fraser's last arc had to be cut short at the last minute.

I think we just hear less about it these days.

Sorry I wasn't clear. What I meant by delayed was mid-flow i.e. having to skip a few Progs or going missing for a few months half way through a story. It seems these days its not run until its all in. Which is clearly a sensible policy BUT you'd think would necessitate a bigger back-up stash as if something is late you have to have an entire story ready to go?

Oh, I see. In that case the only example I can think of post-Origins is the third book of ABC Warriors: Volgan War, which took a five-prog break for no particular reason in the middle of the story.

And that might be why Hector was drafted in to help keep things ticking along nicely (seems to be working too).

On the "how big is Tharg's pile?" question then, leaving aside suggestions involving Preparation H, I direct you to this (http://2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,26003.msg448530.html#msg448530), which did seem to suggest he was tightening up what he was commissioning during these harsher financial times. It makes sense as, I assume, trade sales have dipped and they must be partly helping keep the comic competitive.*

It does seem a pity that these collections aren't more widely available elsewhere as I assume they'd sell well in the US and in the Franco-Belgian market especially where there is name recognition (people liking Dan Abnett's US work wouldn't be disappointed in his 2000 AD output and Pat Mills is carving out a name for himself on the continent). The Dynamite deal still seems in limbo and I check Amazon.fr and there doesn't seem much translated material since about 1999/2000 which is when things really started turning around quality wise in the new material. Reading (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2009/09/13/avatar-plug-of-the-week-freakangels-by-warren-ellis-and-paul-duffield/) that Freakangels has just had the the French publishing rights snapped up makes me wonder about this.

Quote from: Mike Gloady on 15 September, 2009, 12:12:04 PMMy local comic shop informs me they've upped their order twice in the last year.  So our evangelism seems to be working, albeit in a small way.

Amen brother!! Spread the Word.

Quote from: Delingpole on 14 September, 2009, 12:06:01 PM
I know I started this thread but I wish it would just die and slump into the silt at the bottom of the posting lake as I do feel a little bit guilty about the title. But it bears out my point about catchy/provocative titles. There's more life in 'em.

The thread title can be changed. How about: "Now matter how hard I try I find myself not enjoying Armitage, despite the sterling efforts of the creators"?

I think that the title should remain as alot of the thread centres on the actual title, and it is a question rather than a statement.
I myself enjoy Armitage, and the current strip is coming along nicely.






V

I must admit this month's is the first to get my interest, ARTIC-B I feel it could have kicked off from here. All the action could have been in this (first) episode with a bit of tweaking and avoided all the above hand wringing etc

Gaaaaah. you changed the title.







V

What does ARTIC-B mean?

Hey Ush, I think it's an acronym for something like:

All Respect To It's Creator, But...

ARTIC-B!

Thanks! I thought it might be a nervous tic. Computers are weird and stuff.

Thanks for asking House of Usher, I have no idea what ANY of these acronyms mean and have even less intention of finding out.  Pet peeve of mine.

It's typing, not lifting bulldozers - type the whole word/phrase, people.

QuoteIt's typing, not lifting bulldozers - type the whole word/phrase, people.

QFT!  ROTFLMAO!

easy Tiger, you're coming close to breaching article 1 of the forum rules there

English Only: Just as we expect you to be able to read these rules, we expect to be able to read your posts. Do not use "txt spk" or "l33t sp34k" in your posts.

;D

And so am I by responding to my own post AND back seat modding.
... err back on topic,

Tell me how to enjoy Armitage? Read it and look at the pictures. The current run is turning rather good isn't it.

Quote from: Proudhuff on 15 September, 2009, 09:07:17 PM
I must admit this month's is the first to get my interest, ARTIC-B I feel it could have kicked off from here. All the action could have been in this (first) episode with a bit of tweaking and avoided all the above hand wringing etc

Agree 100 percent, cosh.

This month I was prepared to skip Armitage as usual - and then I saw the setting. I felt compelled to read it, which is a definate first.

Enjoyed it, and hope it continues on like this.

I'm LOVING it.  Brilliant as ever.

Shame the title of the thread changed though.  Now large chunks of it won't make any sense.....

I think Brit-Cit deserves less dismissiveness. Armitage seems to be quite who caresy about the place. Its only a supporting character, etc. Whereas, given room to breathe a whole new universe could open up but maybe thats too much for the shoulders of an anthology to bear?

QuoteI must admit this month's is the first to get my interest, ARTIC-B I feel it could have kicked off from here.

Totally agree. Now THIS is the Armitage I like.  Mad, interesting parts of Brit Cit that we've never seen before, backstories enriched with a nod to Dredd continuity in general- good to see the gritty realism of the wrecked north of England contrasted with crazy shit like the Kleggs, Judge Fish and the fatties.

Also enjoyed the sly little joke - 'Look at the crap that's happening in what they're calling Murphyville'. Couldn't agree more. I hated that Emerald Isle story. not because of the stereotyped elements - most other Mega Cities get that too, look at Cal-Hab and Luxor - but because unlike MC1, which is (usually) plausibly farcical, Murphyville is implausibly so. Potential for decent future Murphyville stories was pretty much destroyed from the word go.

Reminded me, by the way, of another dig at Ennis Dredd in the Armitage novel Deathmasques, referring to Judgement Day - Dave Stone describes the fact that the year after Necropolis ANOTHER extra-dimensional superfiend attempted global extermination as 'a serious lack of originality on Fate's part'.

Not entirely Garth Ennis's fault there, I know, but I totally agree again - it was wayyyy too soon after Necropolis among its other flaws.

Anyway, sorry, I digress. Armitage is not crap. It's very good.  By the way, is that the same Brit-Cit assassin woman from Wetworks? Never read it but she was also in a one off story in a Mega-Special.

LOL

Bloody good Armitage this week, IMO. Exciting plot development with [spoiler]a twist that surprised me.[/spoiler]

Full marks from me!

- Trout

WTF! TWAs are useful, ARTIC-B even more so, but OMG is a sin against nature ;D

QuoteBy the way, is that the same Brit-Cit assassin woman from Wetworks? Never read it but she was also in a one off story in a Mega-Special.

I believe Mr Stone confirmed she was previously on these very boards.

I remember it the same as His Lordship.  Nice to see such a (and Proper Dave said this himself I believe) throwaway character got first a Dredd novel and now an Armitage storyline in her.

Quote from: Tweak72 on 18 September, 2009, 01:25:09 PM


LOL

Absolutely superb illustration, thank you.  Even if it was a half-inched idea ( sorry, have I just broken some other rule with that one? ).

how to enjoy Armitage? like everything else in Meg / tooth, take each story on its merits and if someone disagrees with your opinion then deploy tactical nuclear weapons!  
Look on the bright side, it's a damn sight better than those poxy film reviews.

Also, is it me or was the quality of the Hershey / Steel reprint in this month's 'supplement' [ sorry, pedant mode - that is NOT a graphic novel! ] a bit scrappy?

mmm. I could have sworn I started this thread under a different title. But it seems the thought police have caught up with me.

I don't think it's thought police, just more pointing you at an acceptable way of voicing your opinions so that it doesn't cause immediate offence to some people (especially the creators).

Fair enough.