2000 AD Online Forum

Somebody PM Thrylseeker! I need help with the Axe-kissing one.

As I've documented elsewhere I am currently indulging in a massive trawl through all progs historique, currently up to the mid 1000s. Unfortunately it seems that having read the first 1050 odd issues in about 7 months, I am now suffering from Thrill Power Overload - or Thrill Power Fatigue - as I seem to have completely lost the ability to reason with Slaine.

It hasnt helped that there has been constant Slaine in the prog for the past 100 or so progs with stories like Demon Killer/Queen of Witches, Name of the Sword/Lord of Misrule, Treasures of Britain and King of Hearts coming at me with nary a pause for breath. Its quite tiring, especially when all read in a relatively small space of time and especially when all the above stories seem to be the exact same script just in a different setting.

The net result is I am now on The Grail War and I honestly cant figure out what is going on. Even attempting to understand it is hurting my brain. I need an easy to understand explanation from the Mayor of Slaine.

Things I dont understand:
All of it.

I always thought the Cyth represented "God" and "religion", imposing order on humans so they could control them and feed off their fears etc etc. Then the Goddess was Mother Nature, representing anarchy and chaos and our base animal instinct which was being enslaved by religion and rules and civilisation etc. And Slaine was the warrior for that side of things, fighting against the system, order. In this tale though, there is now talk of another "God" - the Trinity - who cast out "Lucifer and his angels" from "heaven"...and Lucifer and these Angels are the Cyth. So the Cyth are the Devil? But the Goddess is someone else. And all these faerie folk that used to live in happiness ended up turning to the dark side because of humans becoming all religious and losing the magic from their lives?

Now Slaine is fighing WITH christianity AGAINST paganism?
Meanwhile Niamh's soul has been captured by someone called Clara and a hawkheaded man. Who are they? And how did they get her soul? It seemed like they went back in time to when Niamh was Marian and stole her from the woods when she was with Slaine -but that didnt happen in that story. And now shes appeared and said shes actually been reincarnated as Simon Le Bon and is the leader of the Crusaders fighting against the Goddess....

I dont know whats going on!!!

Thrylseeker - help me!!! (and keep it simple!)

I'm not going to try to untangle the mess BUT having just read that lot myself over the last few weeks I can completely sympathise with what you're going through.

Have heart though as it would seem that dispite Tharg's (or was it those Vector 13 numpties who said it?) claims before the start of he last part of Treasures of Britain (I think it was) that Slaine would be in the next 50 Progs a break seems to be coming with Prog 1050 until about 1090 (thanks Barney). By this stage it seems like a much needed break!

Thank Grud for that!
Cheers Colin!

QuoteNow Slaine is fighing WITH christianity AGAINST paganism?

I can't comment on the stuff you're suffering through Van Dom, because I never had the stamina to do it, but....

One of the unique things about Sláine is that his fantasy pagan-warrior antics are cast against an incongruous science-fiction background.  This is particularly true of the time-travel stories.  While your analysis of chaos vs. order is pretty sound, there's something else going on as well - the war between the Ever Living Ones and the Cythrons, two groups of alien 'shepherds' attempting to manage the herd of humanity for their own ends.  The Guledig and his boys deliberately cause war and suffering funneling the 'negative energies' from these back to the dawn of time via Time Worms in an attempt to break out of their cosmic prison, Myrddin and his guys try foil these plans by helping humanity to a more enlightened path and thus frustrate the Old Ones.  The Ever Living Ones are at least nominally allied with Goddess, who represents the power of the Earth who is unwillingly playing host to these alien superbeings. 

The big game is alien versus alien, war versus peace, and Sláine's 'side' depends more on this than the religious climate of the time.  At heart he's 'the laughter in the woods' and the Lord of Beasts, which would seem to run contrary to Christianity, but in those times when Christianity manages to represents a source of light of the world, that's the side he's on.

So, with this mind, Sláine can frequently find himself of the side of the Angels - his very first 'time job' is defending the Christian Irish from the Pagan Vikings at Clontarf. 

I've never been comfortable with any of this, by the way, but it's woven deep in the story.

Don't worry Van Dom, the time travel stuff is a little weird.  I gave up when they did the William Wallace thing, utter bilge.  Slaine won't be readable again until Secret Commonwealth (although it will look TERRIBLE for that story).

I think I stopped paying attention to the ins and outs of Slaine continuity around the time Merlin popped up with Hat of many Penises and his (shudder) 'Leyser' pistols.

I still read back then it for the lush artwork by people like Glenn Fabry, and nowadays Clint Langley, but I find it best to approach Slaine as a vehicle for pretty fantasy pictures rather than a coherent story.

Hey, this thread's been active for a day, a few people have commented on it and it features Slaine as it's main topic - where on earth is ThryllSeeker?

Is he sick?  Stay healthy warped one!

Typical isnt it? Just when you need a thesis-sized explanation of something Slaine related and the big guy goes on holidays!!!! Just my luck!!!!

Don't worry I am sure TS is compiling pages worth of explanation for us to mull over and go literally insane.








V

My reasons for not answering right away.....Apart from just now accidently wiping clear the first part of my post without saving it to NotePad. Written in the earlier hours of this morning before I dozed off and woke up again.more determined to find one of my foriegn written Slaine graphics novel. Preferably "The Grail War/The Secrect of the Holy Grail" Assuming they are both one big story cut together. Both illustrated by Steve Tappiin.Which I did. Explained further below....
My four year old computer is has been losing clmps of data. Some of it vital to the software I use.
.I 've also spent the last few days playing "Majesty" and it's Northern Expansion. A simple fantacy based resource managment game nearly  ten years old. Before 3d rendering became common place and as Judge Dredd on the beat at a high-rise shopping mall escorting custmers trapped inside with those mutant vampires and other undead, chasing down Down Docter Icarus in his Vampire infested Regen Labs., Clearing out a Death Cultist infested church, Breaking the morale of Punk Gansters in the lsums from the Charles Manshions block to Juno Plaza fighing off other Death Cultist and Regn Vampire enroute to where the H-wagon was able to land while escorting Judge Goodwin. while also gathering all the pistols, laser and machine rifles together, and then savving some paitents and a doctor or two from Judge Mortis and his undead hordes at Clooney Hospital, before embarrking on the Smokatorium to turn some sprinklers on Judge Fire and then arrivng at Ryske to find re-animated corpses.. I just gave up trying to improve my score from Street Judge and Cadet on the Smokatorium level. over and over again. As it seems easier then it tunred out to be. I maybe I shouldn't play in a room at night wher it's too dark to discern wether I am presssing the right action key while trying to access the spirinkler system..
As for suffering from Slaine burnout. I feel that way as well. Not from reading Slaine, though. I just can't get enough of the one that salmon leaps with axe in hand while wearing brightly coloured tarten breeches.Is it the underlying philosphy that can be understood on different levels and alot more as I have grown from a fifteen year old reading 2000AD to a guy in his late thirties?
Maybe it's the fantacy art visuals......
Quoting Van Dom.......

QuoteThe net result is I am now on The Grail War and I honestly cant figure out what is going on. Even attempting to understand it is hurting my brain. I need an easy to understand explanation from the Mayor of Slaine

.

I feel that way too. Particulally when I only have the story in parts. The version I have in English that is.As for hurting my brain. Well, soembody did ask about Judge Death personal philosphy  on theboard a week before. and then some got to talking about Cathars and remembering fining page devoted to this in one of the Slaine stories. I decided to consult the Wikipedia on this. Not the most reliable of sources, but it will do me just fine. It was there that I read on and on. Opening other links on other subjects until I was reading on what is Dejour, Desuetude and Defacto. As for understanding Slaine and the alot of the Slaine thet occured post HornGod is that I am as much a idiot on this subject as anybody else.The main problem with me is that during that time of Slaine all the way through the 1990's. I had stopped reading 2000AD and Slaine altogether..Thinkin "The Horned God" was the last of it. Besides that fact that in my country, 2000AD Magzine could only be found in second hand book stores and those comicbook stores that imported alot of their products from America. So Ididn't really get back into Slaine until I found "Warrior Beyond Time" ( Demon Killer, Queen of the Witches & Treasures of Britain bound together.) in comic book store several years ago when Slaine making a comeback through Clint Lanely's photoshopped art and the RPG care of Mongoose Publishiing a few months later.Since then I have obsesssed with collecting everything  on Slaine. Right up until now.
Anyway, it just so happns I found part of the sotry you are asking about through places that sell old comics and other second hand book stores.Apart from that I could never collect a amority of the 2000AD comics and Slaine inparticular. Though my collcection has grown in thelast few years through Ebay and to the point where I am sitting in room with piles of comcis around me.
I wouldn't be able to find the Grail War stories  I mentioned without turninghalf my room upside down. Though I have just dug out my small collection of Slaine graphic novels. Most of them duplcates, but written in different foreign languages. 
After extracting them from the bookshelves amidst the clutter, and boxes filled with other books...
I have "Name of the Sword, Lord of Misrule, King of Hearts"  written in Dutch.or German Each, each self contained in their own volume on hardback.
Books Two, Three, Five of "The Horned God" written in Dutch also on hardback. I asume they are from the same series and find it even more difficult that they have been stretched out so far as to be published ijn more than thre volumes as graphic novel.
All of these published by Arboris..If that name means anything to anybody please tell me so that I have it right that they are written in Dutch or German?.
Four volumes of "The Horned God" written in Italian on softback. Published by Feest. Volume three is published by Basteli and seems diffrent from the others. Possibly wirtten in a different language, ( Might be French.) but I'm unsure without givng it alot more study.
I also have
"Demon Killer", One and Two,
"Name of the Sword" Three,
"Lord of Misrule" Four,
"Treasures of Britain" Five and Six,
"King Of Hearts" Seven
and I glad to have found at last....
"The Grail War/Secret of the Grail" Eight. ( It's actulley hard to tell wether this last one is either "The Grail War" or "Secret of the Holy Grail" or both combine. As they seem to be one long story cut otgether")
All of these volumes listed numerically as I have like they do ffollow on from one after another. All in published by Feest as well and in softback also.
I had assumed they were all in German, but they could be in Italian/Spanish or even French as well.
My excuse for now wanting to learn more than one language.
That last story, now that you asked I will study in detail. if I can read the pictures and understand abit of the foriegn narrative and dialoge.
I flicked throught it just a moment ago now. The wording seems german.in thsi version.
I like the tapestry on the inner title pagee. Withth words Slaine and picture of ukko blended in at the bottom
The story is gonna take some time translating. Even from just following it panel for comicbook panel.It's going to take some time.
From what I know if the story Ukko also had reason to be there. So he could spy on Simon De Monfort ( Who ever he his in Slaine and /or real ife hisotry isf there is such a man.)
Being asked by his Dwarfish superior or companion  to spy on this fellow.who was supposedly so virtue, yet still violent that he had to be hiding something.and to Ukko's surprise he turns out that he had nothing to hide.
This turns out to be my favorite reasons for how Slaine actaulley might have met Ukko in the firsty place. He was probably sent to spy on him in the same fashion for another reason.
Though I doubt Pat Mills or Steven Saville would agree.

It also turns out that he was woman or possssed by woman to his own disgust.
From his dialoge.
"Den Korper Einer Frau"
I think "Korper" means "Body"
"Einer" mean "I" or "Me"
"Frau" mean "Woman"
If thats correct, then this version is written in German.
It starts with Slaine holding alody by a stream in in some woods under a moonlit sky. He calls her Marion..
Wether that is in the Sherwood forest from the "Lord of Misrule " Story where Maid Marion is some incarnation of Niamh.
Which seems straanger because the Slaine story preceding this one was actualley "King of Hearts"
Iinvolving Willaim Wallace.
It does look like Slaine and Marion arrive in what I beleive to be the Middle ages in France via confrontation with a Phoneix. Sometthing to do with the dark hair lady and evil looking man.dresssed up as a bird.
Who I though might havebeen Slaine's old nemesis rebron Elfric ( I hope that the right spelling.). He seems like changeling or vampire.. Perhaps he's just a sorcerer, though all magic users in Slaine stories have strong ties with the EL worlds.as some EL riders make a appaerance later on in this same story.
Their fanged and horned hores with webbed and clawed feet.
Wether they are connected, I'm not sure.
Thats all  the sence I can make of it so far.
Quoting Van Dom .......

QuoteI always thought the Cyth represented "God" and "religion", imposing order on humans so they could control them and feed off their fears etc etc. Then the Goddess was Mother Nature, representing anarchy and chaos and our base animal instinct which was being enslaved by religion and rules and civilisation etc. And Slaine was the warrior for that side of things, fighting against the system, order. In this tale though, there is now talk of another "God" - the Trinity - who cast out "Lucifer and his angels" from "heaven"...and Lucifer and these Angels are the Cyth. So the Cyth are the Devil? But the Goddess is someone else. And all these faerie folk that used to live in happiness ended up turning to the dark side because of humans becoming all religious and losing the magic from their lives?

If that interpretation of the Cyth is correct  one of the best I have heard. I like explained how they imposed order on hmans so that they can control and feed off of them.and how they were the angel cast ouf o heaven by god. If thats correct, then I wonder which Cythis Lucifer. It couldn't possibly be the great Guldig. Myirrdin hsi half brred son seems to fit that role better, though he's in chagre of the Ever living ones.
Your interpretation, your analogy seems to fit.. If you've read "Slaine: Time Killer' It says right at he start that the Cythrons lost a battle for mastery of the stars. and their survivors were exiled to a life-less, volcanic world on the edge of the galaxy called "Cythrawl" Which turns out to at the dawn of earth.
.That certtainly ties up a few loose ends.I had assumed they were alien with far superio techology imprisoned on earth when it was still a ball of molten rock. Forced to livein enviroment not suited to they been used to . They still managed to carve out a comfortable niche for themselves waiting for the prmitive life that evolved into human to catch up. Perghaps they were the ones that chose us to evolve.
The Shining Ones.
Thoughit's more likely that the ones that wons the battle. God, as you say chose us to evolve and chose Slaine ( While beng the Earth Mother.) as champion among humans to battle them for control of the earth as it says on the front cover of every "Quality Comic" editions of Slaine.
I guess thats the same thing really..Cyth are the demnoic fallen angels, aliens from beyond the stars. Imprisoned on our home world at much earlier time. Probably setting the standard for us in secret, secretly guiding us and at times torturing us as well. Secreting ly imprisoning us through our advancments in order, modern techology.. Using that to control us as welll. If you compare this with "StarGate" the motion picture.
It was never mentioned who conquered them and put them here. As you say god and his heavenly host of angels have done this themselves.
One of my own most recently thought up explanations for Cythrons were people fromk the future labled as demonic aliens by the primitive humans they encountered.
Thinking in terms of a crossover with Judge Dredd.
They might even be a rogue soceity of Judges lost in a time travelling accident or banished to the past for being criminal Judges. Weilding whatever they were alowed to take with them. Prabably laser pistols and rifles, HoverBoards, Militia Defence Weaponry, . Proably not their Law-givers, Lawmasters other thing aquired through their previous roles in life in Mega City One.
This might explain a slight similartuiy between their Capital city of Gulagg and how I have seen the Mega City 's depicted.
The Cyth gods, might be just very large weird looking robots.
Quoting Van Dom.......

QuoteNow Slaine is fighing WITH christianity AGAINST paganism?
Meanwhile Niamh's soul has been captured by someone called Clara and a hawkheaded man. Who are they? And how did they get her soul? It seemed like they went back in time to when Niamh was Marian and stole her from the woods when she was with Slaine -but that didnt happen in that story. And now shes appeared and said shes actually been reincarnated as Simon Le Bon and is the leader of the Crusaders fighting against the Goddess....

I guess thats a way of looking at Slaine from more univercal point of view.Who side would he be fighting if he was in more modern time and Pagaism had by that stage evoled or devoled into so0mething he could no longer be aprt of.
Once agin tuntil I have read this in english fully. It goes right over my head. YOu guess is prabbly better than mine. So you say that while they were in the woods at the start.Saline was with Marion, possibly another incarnation of Naimh. Yeah, I noticed that. Possibly sshe was Maid Marion and they were in Sherwood forest.  When Slaine waas Robin Goodfellow or something like that.
I just checked the same foriegn edition of the "Lord of Misrule" graphic novel and it appaers that he marries Naimh/Marion close to the end of it as manifestation of the Horned God.
So it does look like "The Grail War" picks up where ."lord of Misrule" left off. Despite "The Treasures of Britain" and "King Of Hearts"
Those stories are like a randomly dealed hand of cards.
I noticed the part where Simon De Monfort is disgusted that he has thebody of or was for some time a woman.
By the way, Simon Le Bon as you mention is the lead singer of Duran Duran.
Of course you might be comparing this man ot the other, but see no visual clues.
So you say that she was reincarnated as this Simon De Monfort.
Probably this is the only way Niamlh can travel with Slaine on his time traveeling adventures or as seems Slaine had to follow her and there was this Phoneix that seemd to be part of process of bringing them in to time in history..
It seems they arrived to together, and some how Ukko turns up as well as they seen togther in a tavern.
Now if she can only exist in other era in the past or future of already existing characters like Maid Marion.and Simon De Monfort already there.I'm not sure about Slaine, but didn't he turn into Robin Goodfellow in "Lord of Misrule"
I think her role in time might have been defined by the body she was put into if she was Simon De Monfort. Though I think that tends to happen the other way round.
She redefines his role. But seeing as as Christian Paladin, I guess he would be fighting the Pagans anyway or proably trying to convert them.
A idea that just occured to me now is that Naimh being Jelous of Slaine connection to the earth goddess and decides to enter the body of Simon De Monfort to hlep fight the Earth Godeess in that era.
I guess thats who the dark haired lady is in green, the one with the fellow dressed up as bird.
I'm not sure who side Slaine is on, but I do niotice him standing over the slaine body of Simon De Monfort  right at the end.
I really need more time with this one.
Quoting Tordelback.....

QuoteOne of the unique things about Sláine is that his fantasy pagan-warrior antics are cast against an incongruous science-fiction background. This is particularly true of the time-travel stories. While your analysis of chaos vs. order is pretty sound, there's something else going on as well - the war between the Ever Living Ones and the Cythrons, two groups of alien 'shepherds' attempting to manage the herd of humanity for their own ends. The Guledig and his boys deliberately cause war and suffering funneling the 'negative energies' from these back to the dawn of time via Time Worms in an attempt to break out of their cosmic prison, Myrddin and his guys try foil these plans by helping humanity to a more enlightened path and thus frustrate the Old Ones. The Ever Living Ones are at least nominally allied with Goddess, who represents the power of the Earth who is unwillingly playing host to these alien superbeings.

Thats a interesting dynamic.look at who the true powers, the big players  that control thebacvkgorund toSlaine world. You could almost just peel him away from their backdrop and have them as both separate stories.
Quoting Tordelback.....

QuoteThe big game is alien versus alien, war versus peace, and Sláine's 'side' depends more on this than the religious climate of the time. At heart he's 'the laughter in the woods' and the Lord of Beasts, which would seem to run contrary to Christianity, but in those times when Christianity manages to represents a source of light of the world, that's the side he's on.

So, with this mind, Sláine can frequently find himself of the side of the Angels - his very first 'time job' is defending the Christian Irish from the Pagan Vikings at Clontarf

The thing about Slaine is that he tends to fight what is larger and uglier than he is.anywhere, and at anytime.Except when he's warped and earth power is pissing out from the top of his head.
If recall the rules the old Dungeons and Dragons game. They had this thing called Alignments.
Those Cythrons might just LAWFUL EVIL.
While the Ever living Ones are LAWFUL GOOD
That lawful bit is open to debate because I just put it that way because it makes them almost diametrically opposed to the Cythrons while yet still having that connection of both working within the law.
Slaine might Chaotic Good most of the time, or just CHAOTIC NEUTRAL.
I find it hard to say he's good, because he has a wide streak of nastiness, but I guess thats just partof his chaotic nature. So maybe he is CHAOTIC GOOD. in that regard.
Then  he became King when he returned to his tribe. I guess that Would thenmake LAWFUL NEUTRAL or GOOD.
He was the king and in that respect LAWFUL.
He was the LAW or Lore;)
The Dungoen and Drgons Druids tend to be regardas TRUE NEUTRAL.
I guess that makes them good, buit creepy.
Though they aren't exactly the same as the Druids of Earth Goddess.
Quoting Dantondare.....
{quote]

!!!

THE REST OF MY POST.....

Quoting Dantondare.....

QuoteI think I stopped paying attention to the ins and outs of Slaine continuity around the time Merlin popped up with Hat of many Penises and his (shudder) 'Leyser' pistols.

I still read back then it for the lush artwork by people like Glenn Fabry, and nowadays Clint Langley, but I find it best to approach Slaine as a vehicle for pretty fantasy pictures rather than a coherent story.

Concerning Myirrdin's unique headgear.I love it. and the outfit that goes with it. I 'd be tempted to wear one of thee myself if I could find a place that sell them.
I have to admit that it's Slaine art work that got me inteterested.in Saline in firstplace. So, it's it's that and evrything sort of branchs out from there.
I guess I would be lying if I said I was a hundred percent on the Slaine philosophies.     

It's like saying thats cool, but I 'm not sure if that right.

Quoting Mike Gloady.

Quote
Hey, this thread's been active for a day, a few people have commented on it and it features Slaine as it's main topic - where on earth is ThryllSeeker?

Is he sick? Stay healthy warped one!

No problem, but I just alittle more slow. I have taken some time to look through the graphic novel and have translated some of the dialoge.
Quoting Van Dom.....

QuoteTypical isnt it? Just when you need a thesis-sized explanation of something Slaine related and the big guy goes on holidays!!!! Just my luck!!!!

Well, parts of me often feel like they have gone on holiday. Sorry, and sorry again if I can't really help you. with this one. and also for one of my trademarked.unfeasibly long posts.


   

Holy Flurking Schnitt!

That's a lot of Slainage TS.

TS, you as are a god to me.  That was simply maxinerd.

Please confirm that you are not a real person.

Woah!!! That must have taken a while to type!
I know who you remind me of at last TS - Harry Knowles! The way he writes his movie reviews by telling you all about his whole day and everything else he did before actually going to the cinema to watch the movie! You're our very own Harry!

Thanks for taking the time to reply but it sounds like you are even more confused than I am, what with not even having the story in English. Christ man! Its incomprehensible enough in English let alone Dutch, German, Italian and French!!!!!!!!!! You're a braver man than me!

Anyway, having made it to the end of Grail War, this is what I now believe is going on.

So theres the Cyth and theres Mother Nature and they are at war. The Cyth try to restrain humans with religion and order, Mother Nature tries to free them using Slaine as her tool.

The people who kidnapped Niamh/Marion are not Cyth.  They are apparently fairy/elf type people who used to follow the ways of Mother Nature but got pissed off when humans starting obeying the Cyth. They became evil themselves and want to destroy all humans. So they stole the Grail stone, the stone of destiny, and are using that to brainwash humans into believing life is bad and making them want to die, or something. By erasing humans they take away the Cyths power source and strand them. And they stick two fingers up at the Goddess in the process.

The Goddess wants her stone back and only Slaine can get it which is why she gets him to work with the Christians for the first time, as this is the only way he will get close to the stone to steal it back.

As for my Simon Le Bon comment, I do know who he is but at the time of writing my original post I couldnt remember the proper name of the character I was talking about and Simon Le Bon was the closest thing that came to mind!

Ive really read enough Slaine at this stage to last me a lifetime and yet I know there are ten million more episodes of it to come between progs 1100 and 1500. Nevertheless, I will soldier on and read them as I get to them, just so I can say Ive done it.

Thank you again very much for your reply TS/

Quote from: TordelBack on 11 September, 2009, 07:24:39 PM
TS, you as are a god to me.  That was simply maxinerd.

Or, as we translate that word round these parts - "that was simply Thryllseeker"

TS, you are a legend.  Don't ever change.  Promise me.

Quote from: ThryllSeekyr on 11 September, 2009, 03:51:31 PM
THE REST OF MY POST.....

Quoting Dantondare.....

QuoteI think I stopped paying attention to the ins and outs of Slaine continuity around the time Merlin popped up with Hat of many Penises and his (shudder) 'Leyser' pistols.

Concerning Myirrdin's unique headgear.I love it. and the outfit that goes with it. I 'd be tempted to wear one of thee myself if I could find a place that sell them.

I would pay good money to see a photo of that!

Best line? - this one:

Quote from: ThryllSeekyr on 11 September, 2009, 03:27:27 PM
"Den Korper Einer Frau"
I think "Korper" means "Body"
"Einer" mean "I" or "Me"
"Frau" mean "Woman"
If thats correct, then this version is written in German.

That one made me laugh long and hard.  ;D Good on ya. TS!

QuoteI just can't get enough of the one that salmon leaps with axe in hand while wearing brightly coloured tarten breeches.

Absolutly one hundred percent agree with this, Slaine is at its best when transplanted straight into an Irish myth, ursurping the role of whatever hero would have appeared in the original tale, whether he is one of the red branch knight, Lugh , or CuChulain, these stories like Sky chariots and The Horned God, define the story for me.

The Time travel alway felt like Pat had read a book and thought it would be cool to include time travel and 'Leyser Guns!' into the story.

The only time trave story that worked for me  is the one in the 1985 annual in 1014, cant remember the name of it. Other that that when I see time Travel, Elfric, El Worlds, Guildig I switch off.
To be fair to Mills, Sky Chariots is probably my single favourite piece in 2000ad,and in comics, ever. I  really like Charlie the robot too, Mills has the ability to thrill and leave you wondering 'what the' within a few pages, 2000ad would be a poorer place without him.

David

Quoting Van Dom.....

QuoteWoah!!! That must have taken a while to type!
I know who you remind me of at last TS - Harry Knowles! The way he writes his movie reviews by telling you all about his whole day and everything else he did before actually going to the cinema to watch the movie! You're our very own Harry!

Harry Knowles...... . I just found him on wikipedia and so,,,,, thats the  fellow from "Ain't It Cool News" and I would seem that the only thing we have in common is  that he was actuelly born exactly day after I was.

Quoting Van Dom.....

QuoteThanks for taking the time to reply but it sounds like you are even more confused than I am, what with not even having the story in English. Christ man! Its incomprehensible enough in English let alone Dutch, German, Italian and French!!!!!!!!!! You're a braver man than me!

Anyway, having made it to the end of Grail War, this is what I now believe is going on.

So theres the Cyth and theres Mother Nature and they are at war. The Cyth try to restrain humans with religion and order, Mother Nature tries to free them using Slaine as her tool.

The people who kidnapped Niamh/Marion are not Cyth. They are apparently fairy/elf type people who used to follow the ways of Mother Nature but got pissed off when humans starting obeying the Cyth. They became evil themselves and want to destroy all humans. So they stole the Grail stone, the stone of destiny, and are using that to brainwash humans into believing life is bad and making them want to die, or something. By erasing humans they take away the Cyths power source and strand them. And they stick two fingers up at the Goddess in the process.

The Goddess wants her stone back and only Slaine can get it which is why she gets him to work with the Christians for the first time, as this is the only way he will get close to the stone to steal it back.

It seems you have wrapped up.Your commentry sounds better than any explantion I tired concocting.

You see,  I'm more the student of Slaine rather than the professor.

Quoting Van Dom.....

QuoteAs for my Simon Le Bon comment, I do know who he is but at the time of writing my original post I couldnt remember the proper name of the character I was talking about and Simon Le Bon was the closest thing that came to mind!

Strange that you don't know Simon Le Bon. famous lead singer of trendy uk band Duran Duran. ( yeah some character from Barbarella). Not that that the bands music suited my personal taste, but right now I find that I miss that I miss their particular brand of background noise. Their hair styles and clothing that I would never be caught dead in..

Back then he could have been a French Celtic Gaul looking Slaine......


And now if he had a beard and with that hair, he might make for a convincing Simon De Montfort. ....


Simon De Montfort, supposedly a real dude in history. Possibly worth researching perhaps if you want to understand his role in this Grail War story better.

Quoting Van Dom.....

QuoteIve really read enough Slaine at this stage to last me a lifetime and yet I know there are ten million more episodes of it to come between progs 1100 and 1500. Nevertheless, I will soldier on and read them as I get to them, just so I can say Ive done it.

If you think you's read too much slaine already and fear  what is to be read of him beyond prog 1100, then I think the worst is overin terms of those time-travelling stories that place Slaine in possition working for or against some real historical figures.. Apart from "The Secret Comonwelth" it should all be smooth sailing. I particaully enjoyed reading "Kai" and "The Banishing" The artwork. Diffferent, but good as always. Stories like "The Triple Death",  and "Beyond" as well as the "Slaine" Poster Prog not listed below serve as more links. Joiner's connecting the other Slaine stories, smoothing out the continueity  rather than being actual stories of any significance themselves. Books Of Invasions became a very exciting time for Slaine once again. Not since the HOr5ned God has it been given som much attentiuon and ye ta few people might find insulting or that Slaine isn't really doing anything more interesting than just carrying a large axe, and knowing how to use it.

Lord of the Beasts" (with Rafael Garres, in 2000 AD #1100)
"Kai" (with Paul Staples, in 2000 AD #1104-1107)
"The Banishing" (with Wayne Reynolds, in 2000 AD #1108-1109)
"The Triple Death" (with Wayne Reynolds, in 2000 AD #1111)
"The Swan Children" (with Siku, in 2000 AD #1112-1114)
"Macha" (with Paul Staples, in 2000 AD #1115-1118)
"The Secret Commonwealth" (with David Bircham, in 2000 AD #1183-1199)
"Beyond" (with Greg Staples, in 2000 AD prog 2000, 1999)
"The Gong Beater" (with Clint Langley, in 2000 AD prog 1635-1638)
The Books of Invasions: Moloch and Golamh (with Clint Langley, 2006, ISBN 1904265820):
"The Books of Invasions I: Moloch" (in 2000 AD #1322-1326 and prog 2003)
"The Books of Invasions II: Golamh" (in 2000 AD #1350-1355)
The Books of Invasions: Scota and Tara (with Clint Langley, 2006, ISBN 1904265928):
"The Books of Invasions III: Scota" (in 2000 AD #1371-1376)
"The Books of Invasions IV: Tara" (in 2000 AD #1420-1425 and prog 2005)
The Books of Invasions: Odacon (with Clint Langley, July 2007, ISBN 1904265928):
"The Books of Invasions V: Odacon" (200AD #1436-1442)
"Carnival" (with Clint Langley, in 2000 AD #1469-1475 and prog 2006)


Quoting Mary and David

QuoteThe only time trave story that worked for me is the one in the 1985 annual in 1014, cant remember the name of it. Other that that when I see time Travel, Elfric, El Worlds, Guildig

Sounds like Time-Killer. One of my favorites, simple because it was weird and to my knowledge very original.

QuoteQuoting Mary and David
Quote
The only time trave story that worked for me is the one in the 1985 annual in 1014, cant remember the name of it. Other that that when I see time Travel, Elfric, El Worlds, Guildig
Sounds like Time-Killer. One of my favorites, simple because it was weird and to my knowledge very original.

Nah, I think David is talking about the full colour Bellardinelli-drawn story of the Battle of Clontarf, which is later retold in Time Killer and equally brilliantly drawn in B&W by Pugh.  Have you ever seen that one, TS?   I don't think it's ever been reprinted (although it really needs to be).    It's actually the first of the time-travel stories, although as I never tire of reminding people time-travel appears in the very first page of the very first Angie Kincaid-drawn story, so it's not like Mills just bolted it on as an afterthought.

That's right, TordelBack.  I'd forgotten about that.  The story's called "The Time Monster" and it appears to be a beautifully rendered dinosaur of the t-rex type (if not actually that species or genus). 

Used to know the word for that family of dinosaurage.  This is what happens to your brain if you age kids.  Don't do it.

QuoteUsed to know the word for that family of dinosaurage.  This is what happens to your brain if you age kids.  Don't do it.

Theropods?  Carnosaurs?  Tyrannosaurids?  I'm in the hugely happy position of being an old dinosaur buff with a three-year old who can't get enough dino-carnage.  My heart swelled with pride this morning when he looked at a Spinosaur for the first time (didn't have them when I were a lad) and announced:  "It has a sail on its back... but it only has two legs, so it's not a Dimetrodon".  Mesozoic cladistics from first principles!

Theropodae sounds familiar, not sure.  God it's been too long since I read anything that wasn't 1. a comic or 2. an archaeological report or text book.  I used to have a brain.  Now i just have a repository for arcane comic book trivia, details of punk/new wave and funk artists I like and artefact typologies.  As I said: "DON'T AGE KIDS!"

Or have kids.  My brother's girls are the only ones old enough to entertain such thoughts, but depressingly enough they seem too feminine to be interested in scaly monsters eating each other.  I'll have to buy the boys some dinosaur pop-up books to sow seeds of future dinosaur chats and drawing sessions.

Burble Burble wibble wibble rasp AAAAAGH. My old man's a mushroom frreeeeeeet.










V

Quoting Tordelback.......

QuoteNah, I think David is talking about the full colour Bellardinelli-drawn story of the Battle of Clontarf, which is later retold in Time Killer and equally brilliantly drawn in B&W by Pugh. Have you ever seen that one, TS?

Yes, I did actaulley. I ordered that one through Ebay nearly two years ago. I hope to get the full set of of them sometime. I also ordered the 1989 annual. ---The Highlight of which Ukko's being interview by the magazine reveals that he was won by Slaine in a game of Wooden Wisdom-- with "Arrow of God"
I thought they might have been stories I hadn't read previously,  but I read the stories first here.....

http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=reprint&page=usprofiles&choice=qslaine28 (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=reprint&page=usprofiles&choice=qslaine28)
Reprinted August 1989.
Though I find it odd that "Arrow of  God" had been reprinted a month before that.
As they were origianlly printed in those annuals the other way round.
So I'm really not sure of the correct contineuity there.
In the "Quality Comic" reprints, they actaulley read  onwards from the end of "Slaine the King" after he had his royal coronation and that huge battle with the invading formorians.
This would have preceeded "The Triple Death" --The story introduicng "The Horned God"-- and  then "the Horned God " itself.
I guess these stories are loose tales.
Anyway, when I read " time Travel, Elfric, El Worlds, Guildig"  earlier.
" I thought of Time-Killer without taking much notice of the words you wrote 'Annual"
It's even more interesting to me now that "Time-Killer" was origianlly published in Prog 411 March 1985 also.....
.http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=prog&page=profiles&choice=411 (//http://://www.2000ad.org/?zone=prog&page=profiles&choice=411)
....and if that runs like it's latest reprint in the Megazine roughtly six years ago. I think the David Pugh version of "Slaine at the Battle Of Clontarf" still would have beaten Massimo's version to the publishers.
Though they might have been drawn at the same time. I'm not sure if printing both versions is supposed to do anything other than fill up pages. A interesting way to complete the Annual and "Quality Comic" run of Slaine stories.
I gotta say that I actualley like David Pugh's version of Slaine and how he was warped in that  confrontation with Elfric I never really liked Masimo's version of the Slaine's warping there.Of course his work on Slaine's warp spasm at the Battle of Dunbark, much earleir was his best ever. I'd say that has verson of 'Slaine at the Battle of Clontarf" didn't make it into the orignal Slaine continueium for that reason.
Likewise, I didn't think much of David Pugh's Efric as he first appaered preparing for battle,, getting ready in his tent. He looked like some horrorshow transvestite. Though I guess he's or it's intended to be that way. I only just noticed now that he's alteast drawn wearing the same type chainmail shirt and hood he's seen in from Massimo's version when he starts squaring off with Slaine.
Reminds me of the image of  Fezik/Andre the Giant from "The Princess Bride" when he was wearing the holocaust cloak.
Quoting Tordelback.....

QuoteI don't think it's ever been reprinted (although it really needs to be).

Yes, As I mentioned above.
It was reprinted in Agust 1989 as part of Quality Comic rfun of Slaine four years afterward
The "Arrow of God" story appaered in the same of comic preceeding the Slaine story from the 1985 annual..

http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=reprint&page=usprofiles&choice=qslaine27 (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=reprint&page=usprofiles&choice=qslaine27)
2000AD Annual 1989

So I think it's odd how they ended up.
Quoting Tordelback......

QuoteIt's actually the first of the time-travel stories, although as I never tire of reminding people time-travel appears in the very first page of the very first Angie Kincaid-drawn story, so it's not like Mills just bolted it on as an afterthought.

I've always thought that you could place 'Slaine at the battle of Clontarf" anywhere in the Slaine continueity.It very well be some recurring event in Slaine's adventures. Perhaps he and Efric have been stuck there fighting all along.
.. That battle reminds me of this battle shown at the start of this film trailer here....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYF5EhoIsA8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYF5EhoIsA8&feature=related)
Just stop watching at 00:17 seconds and take no notice of the stuff said about a truce thjat had been struck. I just though that first part there was very interesting concept..
It's implied.that this event is timeless and recuring, yet it happens 1000 yeas ago.Which would be five years prior to the battle of Clontarf.
Thats from a Russien fantacy trilogy by the way, not as good as I thought it would be, but they only started experimenting with works of fiction since fully liberating themselves several years ago.
I understand what you mean. It's was the first of the time-travel stories. Since just before he was made King. Aalthough refereence to the first Angie Kincaid/Saline story  confuses me. It's just  him fighting one of the Time-Monsters. Yeah, looks like a mutated tyransaurus rex. Although this might be speicies or variant of Raptor lizard  Might have been cooler if that was Satanus referanceing Nemsia andd Judge Dreddd, but it's life ends there thus starts the saga of Slaine.
I've being add that that Ukko recounts the same battle at the beginning of "Demon-Killer". very breifly, but masterfully drawn and coloured by Glenn Fabry.
.Slaine looks very warped here.Loping over piles of corspes to confront Elfric
How suitably surreal is that.
As I have the foriegn version in front of me and without translating every pasage, every bit of dialoge...
I think this just portents Slaine's eniment reunion with the same villain. Defeated numerous times before, but this time in one the Rome occupated towns.
http://img.amazon.ca/images/I/3108BNB5JCL._SL500_AA200_.jpg (http://img.amazon.ca/images/I/3108BNB5JCL._SL500_AA200_.jpg)

I've just spent the last twenty minutes correcting spelling, deleting images that I mistakenly duplcated, changing a the URl to a IMG command while spacing and indenting where I thought it appropiate, swapping around words, changing and deleting entire passages I had pre-written in NotePad before getting the upon saving ....

ERROR, YOU MAY NOT EDIT THIS MESSAGE ANYMORE

Well, words to that effect.

Note-Pad is really kind to you if you don't how to use the commands that allow you to paragraph proaperly.

Bollix.

It's all about a bully who likes chopping people up.

QuoteIt's all about a bully who likes chopping people up.

House?

Now, there's an idea for a crossover...


"Maybe it's lupus..."

"It's never lupus!" *chop*

 ???

Quoting Myself....

Quote
Note-Pad is really kind to you if you don't how to use the commands that allow you to paragraph proaperly.

End of Quote

I meant Note-Pad ISN"T kind to you if you don't know how to use all the commands and functions supplied with it.


END OF SUBJECT

That wouldn't be about Simon De Montfort?

I think alot of pople were like that back in those days. Nobody took anynotice of you unless you put lots of armour, weilding a sword or large axe and went around chopping up anybody that got in your way.

Quoting Van Dom....

QuoteI always thought the Cyth represented "God" and "religion", imposing order on humans so they could control them and feed off their fears etc etc. Then the Goddess was Mother Nature, representing anarchy and chaos and our base animal instinct which was being enslaved by religion and rules and civilisation etc. And Slaine was the warrior for that side of things, fighting against the system, order. In this tale though, there is now talk of another "God" - the Trinity - who cast out "Lucifer and his angels" from "heaven"...and Lucifer and these Angels are the Cyth. So the Cyth are the Devil? But the Goddess is someone else. And all these faerie folk that used to live in happiness ended up turning to the dark side because of humans becoming all religious and losing the magic from their lives?

So theres the Cyth and theres Mother Nature and they are at war. The Cyth try to restrain humans with religion and order, Mother Nature tries to free them using Slaine as her tool.

I was wondering if I could use your explanation, your personal take on the Cyth/Cythron on the Mongoose Publisihng forum.

They have already started a thread about the correct pronouciation of Cyth/Cythron and I thought I would follow it up with discussion on what they are exactly.

Your words were the best I found so far. i would like to use them, quoting what you said above.

I might also ask if they are interested in making a source book for the Cyth/Cythron in the Slaine Runequest game.

Well I was just making that up as I went along and I don't really understand it myself but if you want to use it, by all means do. I won't sue! ;)

I dont know why you are bothering as its all a bit of a let down after The Horned God

It hits a lul for a while, but there are moments of brilliance too. 

I agree that maybe it'd have been the sensible thing to just leave it at that, but I'm glad they didn't as some of my favourite moments happened afterthat. 

Quote from: Mike Gloady on 30 November, 2009, 04:39:19 PM
It hits a lul for a while, but there are moments of brilliance too.  

I agree that maybe it'd have been the sensible thing to just leave it at that, but I'm glad they didn't as some of my favourite moments happened afterthat.  

What bits are that? I ask as I have just sorted my progs out so may have them.

Also, I must be the only person who preferred Clint Langley's early art (Lord of Misrule) to his overley photoshoped current work which I find what it gains in being pretty then lacks in passion. Sorry Clint but your early stuff was the only thing that kept me interested in Slaine at the time.

Lord of Misrule/Name of the Sword was certainly one of them (I prefered the line-work one).  Some cracking bits of characterisation there in among the crappy bits.  Demon Killer/Queen of Witches was pretty good too. 

Treasures of Britain, a bit meh but nice art.  After that it all got a bit silly until BoI.

I like Langley's current work, but I wish he'd draw more.  Apart from anything else, that style's like painting in that it takes an age and is generally less clear in storytelling terms. 

Having said that, I do STILL like it.  But Lord of Misrule was lovely.  *sniff*

Quote from: Van Dom on 30 November, 2009, 04:18:02 PM
Well I was just making that up as I went along and I don't really understand it myself but if you want to use it, by all means do. I won't sue! ;)

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=41533 (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=41533)

Oh BTW, I'm known as Standing-Stone on that fourm. I look much uglier there as well.

I like what you said, as it ties up a few loose threads and makes so much sence to me. If the Cytherons are Slaine's reinterpretation of lucifer & his Demonic host from the Bible. That battle or war they lost must have been with God and his host of Angels who imprsoned with in the earth at the dawn of time. Cythrons are even discribed as Demonic Angels. I think I read this in the Treasures of Britain and it's in Time-Killer that you learn how they abduct people, and torture and experiment on them. Like Demons do and Aliens as well. Aliens who abduct people and experiment on them is nother way of looking at them.


Having said that, how would that eexplain how they are trapped and can't excape Cythrawl. Unable to break free until they have accrued enough negative energy. How would they abduct people if theycan't escape?

Hmmm...

Quote from: Tweak72 on 30 November, 2009, 04:59:34 PM

Quote from: Mike Gloady on 30 November, 2009, 04:39:19 PM
It hits a lul for a while, but there are moments of brilliance too. 

I agree that maybe it'd have been the sensible thing to just leave it at that, but I'm glad they didn't as some of my favourite moments happened afterthat. 

What bits are that? I ask as I have just sorted my progs out so may have them.

Also, I must be the only person who preferred Clint Langley's early art (Lord of Misrule) to his overley photoshoped current work which I find what it gains in being pretty then lacks in passion. Sorry Clint but your early stuff was the only thing that kept me interested in Slaine at the time.

No, I like his earlier stuff as well or don't I count ::)

Fucking hell!

Hands up who's read all of that? Go on!

I've read it :D

I read all my own posts, over and over again an din my sleep.

But I'd like to remind you that atleast half of what is written above is somebody else's post.

Okay, TS. You're a bloody legend and it is a great regret to me that you tend to post on pretty much the only 2000AD subject in which I have very little interest.

What do you like besides Slaine?

All the best

- Trout

Yes, that is unfortunate :'(

What do you think the actual ratio of Slaine discussion is to evrything else on this messageboard???

Do I like anything else other than Slaine

Well, I have shelf full of.....
Judge Dredd Case Files (One - eleven, so far.),
Strotitum Dog (One - Five Complete.),
Nemesis The Warlock (Three Volumes),
The first Volume of Ro-Busters and Ace Trucking.
Judge Dredd, Origins, Icubus ( Vs aliens.) & Young Death, Diary of a Super Fiend.
Xtinct,
The Complete Dr & Quinch,
The Complete Indigoe Prime,
The Complete Alan Moore Future Shocks,
Storming Heaven
The Best of Tharg's Future Shocks
DC's Metazoic
Four of the progs and a Megazine.
The big bumper hardback of The Best of 2000AD and ThrillPower Overload
The Three rule books from Games Workshop Editon of a Judge Dredd Game
The Thirteeth Floor & Doomlord
I have the Warhammer 40k Codex for Space Wolves, Dark Eldar and Tyranids
R.A. Salvatore's Homeland, The Legend of DDrizzt Book One{/b]
The core rules for the Red Dwarf, Role Playing Game and Gamemasters screen

The rest of my 2000AD collection in my room is what I got of the recnt progs over the last few years and the back issues as well.

I have devoted a third of bookshelve exclusively to Slaine

You need to put some more effort in there Thryllseekyr.

What?

No ABCs?  No Rogue?  No Button Man?  No Dante?  No Sin/Dex?  No Invasion/Savage?  None of the "new" Strontium Dog? 

Tut tut tut.  Very disappointed.  Do you even READ 2000ad?

Only my favorites at the moment, as my finances have dried up.

Just remember, I do atleast have alot of the progs, just barely any of the recent ones.

I know if I had the money now, I would have started collecting the other case files for A.B.C. Warriors, Rogue Trooper, & Psi Anderson.

Collecting something entirely is a scary consideration, as I had originally just wanted to read all of Slaine.

Pretty soon, your in a room full of books and your wondering where the last couple of years of your life have gone.

I ask the same question again....

QuoteWhat do you think the actual ratio of Slaine discussion is to evrything else on this messageboard???

Find the balance.

I consider myself to be the balance.

I was KIDDING, TS!

And I understand that, all the way over there, it's difficult to get ANYTHING. 

Non UK/Ireland Squaxx are the very definition of loyalty.

I forgot to mention the 2000AD manuals for 1985 & 89 on the same shelf.

I also have Conqering Armies, second hand through Ebay. I don't keep it on any shelf.

It's too big to shelve, almost poster sized.

Referred to by Pat Mills, in his forwarding psssage in the most recent reprinting of
Slaine: Warriors Dawn, Book One

I think he used it to give Mike MacMahon a idea of what he wanted for Slaine art.

The artwork itself does have some parralells after paging through this volume several times now.

The art work reminds me of Richards Corben's work. The stuff that he does'nt paint, anyway

I should really read it sometime.