Being a selfish sort, I quiet fancy the idea of the Meg turning into some sort of combination of 'Draw' + '2000ad' running comic strips as well as articles about the process of making comics (I'll happily lose an article about movies/tv if we can get more interviews with comic artists)
So, anyhue, here's some articles I'd love to see (which are probably unlikely, but anyways...)
1. The Slushpile
Once a month Tharg and minions trawl the slushpile for the best and worst - printing details about them along with a decent commentary/breakdown of what's right/wrong. Obv you couldn't do this without people's approval - but the reward is that you'll actually start seeing something come from the slushpile. (You could run two versions of this: one for scripts and one for art)
2. Art Attack!
Get artists to go back over some of their oldest work and take it apart, figuring out how they'd approach it now.
3. How To...
Things like the famous Ian Gibson double page spread 'how to draw' dredd from the annuals - let's see how Henry approaches a page of ... well... anything...
4. Sketchbooks
Let's see lots of sketches by the 2000AD art droids...
Your turn...
I like the slush pile idea...
I'd like to see a few script-to-strip breakdowns (Marvel did a few of these a few years back) in which we can read the actual script page and then see the page of art and then the final colored and lettered version.
Quote from: pauljholden on 21 March, 2010, 01:57:04 PM
Your turn...
I'll have a think about that, but I have to say that most of your suggestions are brilliant, PJ. I understand the economic need to run feature pages instead of strip pages in the Meg -- the issue is whether those feature pages add value to the comic or whether you just see 'em as filler between the strip. The problem with the review stuff is that -- no matter how well written they are -- this is stuff you can get all over the place. The feature stuff that I gravitate to tends to be creator interviews or articles poking about in the more obscure corners of comic book history.
The stuff you're describing would also fall under the category of "stuff I can't get elsewhere" and would, in my mind, absolutely add value to the title in a way that much of the current feature material doesn't (for me).
Good ideas, and thought-provoking stuff.
Cheers!
Jim
Great idea indeed. ImagineFX magazine has none other than the special effects maestro Ray Harryhausens sketchbook in this month's issue. There's always lot's of 'How to's' in that publication plus readers questions and of course their art.
I have mentioned this before but I'd like to see something on the Dredd universe, possibly from a non-fictional perspective. It was inspired by D'Israeli's inspired look at the different takes on Mega-City One (and digging out that thread might uncover more such suggestions). If he wasn't interested in polishing it up (although he has already done most of the work) I'm sure Tharg could task one of the other article-writing droids to finish it off. It strikes me
this is exactly the kind of thing that should be in the Judge Dredd Megazine.
I'm sure there are a lot of other things that are simmering away at the back of droids minds like this which could be developed (Rufus, for example, is fiercely knowledgeable about British comics art and if you could tap into that you'd have enough material to keep you going for a while). If a theme emerged then some kind of book wouldn't seem outrageous somewhere down the line (perhaps, say, a book looking at the creation and development of Dredd's world from a less - in-universe perspective - it could be fleshed out with interviews and even a kind of "director's commentary" going through the stories discussing what they were thinking planning at each stage).
Quote from: pauljholden on 21 March, 2010, 01:57:04 PM2. Art Attack!
Get artists to go back over some of their oldest work and take it apart, figuring out how they'd approach it now.
That is a great idea (OK they all are but this one in particular) - I remember enjoying the one page feature in Marvel UK's Daredevils where artists showed off some of their earliest work (and the thread on Dave Gibbons early work made me feel there was an article just in that). Perhaps do a kind of "before they were droids" feature? How they started, what training they had, how they broke into the industry and then finish it off with how they feel their art has evolved since. It'd also be a chance to reprint any art the droids sent to 2000AD - we dug out Lee Carter's drawings that appeared on the letters page and there are others (Buttonman has a list doesn't he?).
Quote(Buttonman has a list doesn't he?).
Yes, yes I do, although the last year of data was lost in a recent drive wipe disaster that also cost me some of my choicest internet finds - boo-hoo. At least someone is bringing porn to the Hell Trek!
I like the slush pile idea too - they could pull out a random script and have a droid bash it out. Shitey aspects could then be pointed out.
I'd like a readers' art page which could embrace the good and less good works from this board and the redership in general.
I would assume most of the Megazine's readership have no interest in the 'behind the scenes' workings of comic strips--they just want to read the finished article? Being an artist/writer, of course PJ's ideas appeal to me, but to the wider circle, would this not just sound the Meg's protracted death tolls more urgently?
As very occasional features certainly, but not habitual.
Quote from: John Caliber on 21 March, 2010, 04:37:24 PM
I would assume most of the Megazine's readership have no interest in the 'behind the scenes' workings of comic strips--they just want to read the finished article? Being an artist/writer, of course PJ's ideas appeal to me, but to the wider circle, would this not just sound the Meg's protracted death tolls more urgently?
As very occasional features certainly, but not habitual.
It's hard to know anything about the Megazines readership (all I'm going on is what I would want to read), but given one of the most popular Megazine articles was Dave Bishops excellent Thrill Power Overload*, it could be that that kind of behind the scenes stuff is EXACTLY what the Meg audience want...
Still, I'm not here to defend what I'd like to see, I was asking what other people would like to see...!
-pj
(I assume it was popular, at the very least it ran far longer than originally intended and was collected into first a hardback then a softback...)
Just from my own perspective, the behind the scenes stuff is exactly the kind of thing I'd like to see. I'd imagine thats the case with most people on tihs board and in the general meg readership, although I'm only guessing and am prepared to be proved wrong. It just seems like the sci-fi/fantasy genre, be it comics or other media, does attravt people of that kind of mentality. You only need look at the number of mags on the shelves with Who, Lost, Trek etc on the cover to see that. It's a level of interest you don't seem to get with other genres.
I see what you're getting at, PJ. I think that perhaps investigating the technicalities of the processes behind the comic strips might be an 'unpeeling' of the 2000AD onion too far (as opposed to the gossip and bad-mouthing packed accounts of 2000AD's history, which will always appeal to our dark sides ;)
Too many inward looking articles might turn off new readers, only consolidating the existing readership (which I assume is--in any respect--ebbing slowly away).
It's the same state Marvel and DC Comics are in, targeting their existing, older customers and writing to a level of complexity that children or those not familiar with the comic bok form can't enjoy (the few titles aimed at new readers or youngsters--who should really be considered one and the same--are confined to one-shots and fringe titles; isn't that an 'ass-about-face' long-term business model?
Some good ideas, but do all the articles have to be about PJ?
Quote from: John Caliber on 21 March, 2010, 04:57:23 PM
I see what you're getting at, PJ. I think that perhaps investigating the technicalities of the processes behind the comic strips might be an 'unpeeling' of the 2000AD onion too far (as opposed to the gossip and bad-mouthing packed accounts of 2000AD's history, which will always appeal to our dark sides ;)
Too many inward looking articles might turn off new readers, only consolidating the existing readership (which I assume is--in any respect--ebbing slowly away).
It's the same state Marvel and DC Comics are in, targeting their existing, older customers and writing to a level of complexity that children or those not familiar with the comic bok form can't enjoy (the few titles aimed at new readers or youngsters--who should really be considered one and the same--are confined to one-shots and fringe titles; isn't that an 'ass-about-face' long-term business model?
DOOMED! DOOMED! We're all DOOMED!
I'd like to try and keep this thread to 'Articles you'd like to see in the Meg' - I'm not sure I'd agree that anything I've suggested would do harm to the Meg (maybe if it was wall to wall that stuff, but I'm not really suggesting that) and I think the discussion of whether the meg is in fine fettle or otherwise really belongs in a different thread....
-pj
Quote from: TordelBack on 21 March, 2010, 05:21:07 PM
Some good ideas, but do all the articles have to be about PJ?
I'm not sure I can see the problem...?
I would take anything over those pointless film reviews that are currently in the meg
Quote from: John Caliber on 21 March, 2010, 04:57:23 PM
I see what you're getting at, PJ. I think that perhaps investigating the technicalities of the processes behind the comic strips might be an 'unpeeling' of the 2000AD onion too far (as opposed to the gossip and bad-mouthing packed accounts of 2000AD's history, which will always appeal to our dark sides ;)
Too many inward looking articles might turn off new readers, only consolidating the existing readership (which I assume is--in any respect--ebbing slowly away).
I don't know - something like D'Israeli's history of the design of Mega-City One would, I'd have thought, help ease new readers into the history of the way Mega-City One has been portrayed (and might get them interested in digging through the Case File if they haven't already). It might also help give people a more rounded feel for what goes into Judge Dredd without getting nit-picky over tiny continuity issues (it may even iron out some of those - by presenting side-by-side comparisons you can see how each artists brings their take to the design of the city).
I think PJ's ideas are bad to the point of disaster. Sorry.
From a personal point of view, as someone aspiring to write, I think PJ's ideas are good. From an editorial point of view surely they are all kinds of wrong? I have no idea what numbers read the Meg, but I think it must be fair to say that the majority would not be interested. Sure, there are a few dedicated souls (the type who frequent forums) who'd lap it up but for the majority I fear it would be a big big turn off other than as a one off.
I just fear there would be no interest. Just as you can like a band and have no idea how music is written, so you can read a comic without caring about how it is created. And that, I suspect, is the case for the majority.
I don't like the articles in the Meg, but I understand that they are there as a cheaper replacement for strip. Presumably, they are designed to be of maximum interest to the widest demographic within the readership. That probably excludes the creative types.
I think the suggested ideas could be more off-putting than the current text and lead to a quicker death for the Meg, which is the opposite of the intended affect.
I have no basis for this other than my own meandering experience.
Wow, gotta say, i'm slightly surprised that people feel this strongly (a disaster ? really?) - though, weirdly, the people who think they'd be bad for the meg have conceded they'd actually be interested in them themselves!
I really can't quite get my head round the fact that you'd actually think articles of that type would be a "disaster" for the meg - firstly, broadly speaking, I'd imagine most people reading the megazine are already 2000AD readers and are certainly not put off by anything that's inward looking so long as it's interesting (cf Thrill Power Overload, the feedback from the various interviews with creators, and the fact that the majority of the strips are actually set within Dredd's world and assume a certain amount of knowledge about that universe - in fact, the very origins of the Meg were as a way to give depth to Dredd's world to people already into it...).
Secondly, magazines like ImagineFX and the new Comic Heroes from S/FX suggest that there IS a market for people interested in the creative process.
Thirdly, I'd disagree with you re the make up of creatives type, it's been my experience that the majority of comic readers are also interested in creating - this is born out by the number of fanzines and conventions that are a facet of the comic industry (and those that aren't interested in creating comics themselves are almost always interested in seeing how artwork is made). Certainly, in TV, Music and Movies most people are passive consumers but comics, for whatever reason, tends to attract those that are fairly interested in actually making the things.
And my final point: I don't really have any sway over Tharg - and I'm not suggesting everything in the meg should be chucked out in favour of some of the things I've proposed, but I'd not be unhappy if one or two of those suggestions popped up throughout the year...
-pj
I wasn't trying to be nasty or offensive, and hope I wasn't taken that way. I appreciate the point that there are periodicals serving the market in "how to" do a strip. My point was that I think of the Meg as a comic, and am assuming that most of its readers want to read strip.
For my tuppence, the idea of taking the best of the small press (as was done a while back) would be a good way of getting pages at much-cheapness. It's still strip.
No offence taken - I'm a robust individual! (I am slightly taken aback, but I'm certainly not offended!)
re: The Meg is a comic and yes, it'd be awesome if it was 100% strip - but it ISN'T 100% strip, and, until it is, it's going to have articles in it. I'd like articles about comics rather than articles about movies, etc (I have an empire subscription - christmas present - and I barely read it).
-pj
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 21 March, 2010, 08:51:51 PMMy point was that I think of the Meg as a comic, and am assuming that most of its readers want to read strip.
It's a fair point, but in reality the Meg
isn't a comic anymore, it is (as its name suggests) a magazine. When it was mainly strip, it was padded with divisive re-print, when it it featured small press there was regular griping, when it tries to incorporate new non-2000AD strip (aka Tank Girl) it gets a monthly kicking... it seems like its attempts to have more strip are doomed (although I have high hopes for Lily, but then I've read it before...). Articles are the only real alternative (that or a much smaller Meg for roughly the same price), so what do we want those articles to be about? Not film, if this forum is to be believed. What are the only consistently popular text pieces (here)? Creator interviews.
Personally I'd like to see the Small Press strips back too, but wouldn't that be a natural extension of what PJ is suggesting? The Meg as a hub for the nuts'n'bolts of making comics?
EDIT: Bah, Holden said all my stuff, better and shorter.
Better and shorter is how I'm often described...
Personally I think these ideas would be great. I just skip out the film reviews anyway as it's pretty poor, in my opinion, and something like this would be vastly superior.
I think the original reason for the meg has kind of passed itself. It was set up as a more in depth, serious, look at Dredd's world for an older audience. I find that this is no longer the case since most of the strips don't display any difference in tone from 2000AD except that they're only a bit longer; the strips are literally interchangeable between both publications, ZOMBO could easily be in the Meg. There is no delineation between the two anymore in style or substance; the stories are just packaged with some nice articles and pointless film reviews.
I'd rather see the good stories incorporated into Twoth or really push the difference between the two again. Let's have even longer page count/complete in one issue stories in the Meg if it has to stay.
Like everyone else with your wacky notions, I assume the average Meg reader approaches the publication in the same way I do. In which case, apathy is your biggest obstacle. I view the articles as a minor irritant that I have to flick past in search of the next story. Like the boring bits of the Sunday paper, the only time I read them is when I need a shit and the latest Meg is still at hand when the moment strikes. Unless they start printing in-depth career retrospectives of great cyclists, no amount of tweaking the content is going to change that.
If this attitude is the norm, then I don't see any harm in targeting some of the articles at a very specific group of people who will get something out of it as you're not actually upsetting anyone. The D'Israeli piece Jim mentions was an excellent way of approaching the history of the comic.
What would the relative cost be of reprinting a short story from a recent issue of Interzone?
I'd like to see artist sketchbook stuff. That'd be interesting. Work from the droids that you wouldn't normally see. And early character sketches. I remember an annual from one year that had Dave Gibbon's early Rogue Trooper designs and Kev O'Neill's Nemesis sketches. Fantastic stuff.
And convention reports might be interesting, especially for those who don't get to as many as they'd like.
And I'd be willing to read text fiction that wasn't Dredd/2000ad related. I've never been able to get my head round reading text stories based on comic characters, but I could read something that was unrelated, maybe by new talent.
And fridge magnets.
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 21 March, 2010, 08:51:51 PM
My point was that I think of the Meg as a comic, and am assuming that most of its readers want to read strip.
Which they're not getting. The simple economics of the publication would appear to preclude commissioning enough original material to fill the page count at this time.
Given that this is the case, the question then becomes: what kind of feature should appear. The film and comic reviews -- although perfectly good and professional in their own right -- do nothing to distinguish the title in the marketplace and bring nothing that I can't find in a dozen other places.
OTOH, I could happily have read another couple of issues worth of the Ron Smith interview. D'israeli's MC-1 architecture article would -- to me -- have sat quite happily in the Meg, informing the main strip and filling in history for new readers as well.
QuoteFor my tuppence, the idea of taking the best of the small press (as was done a while back) would be a good way of getting pages at much-cheapness. It's still strip.
Mmm. Well, the problem with this is: there's also a
lot of rubbish in the fan/small press. The real talent does tend to stand out, so a small press section would run the risk very quickly of starting to re-visit the same creators over and over again, at which point some of those creators might, quite reasonably, start to ask why they're not getting paid for their contributions.
So ... I accept that we're stuck with feature pages but the question -- as PJ originally asked -- is what the best use of those pages
is. I'm not convinced that the review columns are the best use as they currently stand ...
Cheers
Jim
I think we should take PJ's "behind-the-scenes" ideas to the max. We should get a literal "Droid Life". We should be given the full, uncensored contents of his e-mail inbox with illustrations where appropriate. We should have photos of him sleeping. We should find out which hand he would be prepared to lose.
Small press material isn't the only low-cost strip alternative. There are countless web strips whose creators would probably welcome the chance to see their stuff briefly in print before the Meg moved on to spotlight something else. Like the small press, web comics are largely thankless, profitless tasks undertaken with a love of the medium for little or no reward beyond that they'll be read - maybe.
I'd also argue that the slushpile article is only as 'niche appeal' as it's made to be - essentially you'd have professionals and/or loudmouthed smartarses mocking terrible scripts or going off on one about how a script in the pile is utterly awesome because of some conceit/concept/joke that they think is brilliant. I can see why wannabe writers would be reticent with sharing their twist endings, all the same, so there's probably a limited number of articles in the idea, but it's potentially a loving mockery of the creation of entertainment and a celebration of what the article's contributors feel passionately about, and doesn't necessarily mean an anal dissection of the scripting craft of interest only to would-be writers. It's basically like being told to produce an article on the movie Lone Wolf McQuade: does your article examine the plot and dialogue and highlight where they fail or succeed in terms of the tropes of the action movie genre, or do you use that space to tell your readers that they need to be watching a film where Chuck Norris gets drunk as fuck then drives out of his own grave in a pickup truck? I know which article I'd prefer to be reading, but either are possible from the source material and instructions to "fill three pages".
Is there any reason that the make-up of the article content can't rotate around several different things?
Sometimes creator interviews, sometimes small press work, sometimes comics based articles such as those suggested by PJ and others. It doesn't have to be a set of particular 'slots' that need to be filled.
Mind you, I recall Dragon magazine running several different 'compartments'- and these would vary from issue to issue- that type of thing might be worth a poke.
At least then we wouldn't be putting our Megs down and thinking- oh well more pages wasted on those bloody film/ TV reviews to look forward to next month.
I buy 2000ad and the Meg for my comics fix. When I want TV or Film, i'll put the telly on and I can do that any time I'm at home. I only get 1 Meg a month and I want it to focus on comics. There is no place in my Meg for anything other than comic stuff- if it has to be an article, then so be.
The only counter argument seems to be that it saves Joe Soap from having to part with an extra 4.99 a month on 'Empire' or 'SFX'. I say fuck 'em- those mags appear to me to be mainly mindless tat and advertising vehicles, if you want to read that (and I can't see how anyone does) then go and buy it.
Quote from: Dog Deever on 21 March, 2010, 11:27:28 PM
Is there any reason that the make-up of the article content can't rotate around several different things?
Sometimes creator interviews, sometimes small press work, sometimes comics based articles such as those suggested by PJ and others. It doesn't have to be a set of particular 'slots' that need to be filled.
Mind you, I recall Dragon magazine running several different 'compartments'- and these would vary from issue to issue- that type of thing might be worth a poke.
At least then we wouldn't be putting our Megs down and thinking- oh well more pages wasted on those bloody film/ TV reviews to look forward to next month.
I buy 2000ad and the Meg for my comics fix. When I want TV or Film, i'll put the telly on and I can do that any time I'm at home. I only get 1 Meg a month and I want it to focus on comics. There is no place in my Meg for anything other than comic stuff- if it has to be an article, then so be.
The only counter argument seems to be that it saves Joe Soap from having to part with an extra 4.99 a month on 'Empire' or 'SFX'. I say fuck 'em- those mags appear to me to be mainly mindless tat and advertising vehicles, if you want to read that (and I can't see how anyone does) then go and buy it.
I'd quite like that 'random' element - one month a short story, next month a small press article, etc.
One idea I think I have thrown out before somewhere is "Didn't they do well" a look at the non-Tharg work droids get up to. I know I'm always interested to see what other work they get up to elsewhere as they often work on themes/ideas they also use in 2000AD. I know from the threads in the general comics/books forums that I'm not the only one.
So you have:
Dan Abnett currently rocking Marvel's Cosmic angle and in Realm of Kings: Imperial Guard he is working with Kev Walker. Previously he co-wrote the Warhammer comics at Boom with Ian Edginton and his run on The Authority was with Simon Coleby.
Ian Edginton has Victorian Undead, which fans of his 2000 AD work (and his Holmes adaptations would like - in fact there are also the Holmes adaptations now I think about it).
Chris Weston has just written and drawn a one-shot prequel to The Twelve (with Gary Erskine on inks, he now inks a lot of stuff Mr W doesn't).
Grant Morrison's Batman & Robin is proving popular and that started with Frank Quitely and has Frazer Irving up next.
Rob Williams has done quite a bit of licensed work on RoboCop, Indiana Jones, Star Wars, etc. which has a solid crossover with the interests of 2000AD readers.
There is also Pat's work in France and beyond.
Alan Grant has been doing a lot of work at Bad Press and Berserker Comics.
I know we don't want this to be All About PJ but he and Garth Ennis have just worked together on Battlefields and Ennis' work often appeals to fan's of British comics.
That is just a quick brainstorm (and curtailed by the onset of my realising I could rattle on and on) but a longer list could easily be drawn up with a little pondering (and/or research ;) ) and it depends on where you draw the line - Warren Ellis and Neil Gaiman could count too which also opens things up.
It'd be easy enough to do a feature focusing on one creator and their non-twoth work, plus potted reviews and news snippets about upcoming work. It would not only help the reader but it'd be a nice little boost for the creator, plus it'd subtly underline the message: BUILT BY THARG, THEN CONQUERED THE WORLD. They may be cogs in the American comic book machine but it was Tharg who gave them the space to develop as creators and a place their work could be seen by the world (I'm still not adverse to the idea that there should be some kind of tithe taken from mainstream US comics in acknowledgement of the way Tharg's droids changed their comics for good and for the better, perhaps attach it to the Robin Hood Tax on bans?).
Something like that.
Quoteand it depends on where you draw the line
I draw the line at 'anything that is not directly comic related'. Just in front of 'film/ TV reviews'.
Quote from: Dog Deever on 22 March, 2010, 01:19:22 AM
Quoteand it depends on where you draw the line
I draw the line at 'anything that is not directly comic related'. Just in front of 'film/ TV reviews'.
I kind of meant: does Warren Ellis count, as his 2000AD work is really a Strange Cases and the reprinting of Lazarus Churchyard? Does Neil Gaiman count because of his 4 Future Shocks? Some might be surprised to hear they had
any 2000AD work (while others might be surprised it was so little). Does John Byrne count? Does that fact that John Byrne counting would annoy John Byrne influence our decision (positively or negatively ;) )?
Quote from: Roger Godpleton on 21 March, 2010, 10:19:56 PMWe should find out which hand he would be prepared to lose.
Judging by his frequent appearances on Chatroulette, his left.
Quote from: pauljholden on 21 March, 2010, 08:43:31 PM
to people already into it...)
Secondly, magazines like ImagineFX and the new Comic Heroes from S/FX suggest that there IS a market for people interested in the creative process.
Maybe best to wait for Comic Heroes to make it a little further past the issue 1 point before declaring it successful proof there's a viable market out there for that kind of content?
Quote from: GordonR on 22 March, 2010, 12:08:29 PM
Quote from: pauljholden on 21 March, 2010, 08:43:31 PM
to people already into it...)
Secondly, magazines like ImagineFX and the new Comic Heroes from S/FX suggest that there IS a market for people interested in the creative process.
Maybe best to wait for Comic Heroes to make it a little further past the issue 1 point before declaring it successful proof there's a viable market out there for that kind of content?
true dat.
I'd prefer more strip.
And I'm pretty sure you could scour the back catalogue of the small press and find a year's worth of EXCELLENT stories in both script and art department that would love to be shown to a wider audience (beyond their initial small press run of 500 or whatever).
If I recall, the last run of these was for upcoming material but why not make it a retrospective and pull out cases where the creators have gone on to other things. Or not - after all, a good story will stand on it's own merits.
I'm behind the idea of articles if they are relevant to comics - the oft referenced Dizzy on Mega City architecture is indeed a cracker.
The idea of going through a slush pile submission doesn't work for me. Why on earth would I like to read a critique of a REJECTED story which is taking up space that could be filled by a genuinely good one?
I liked it when Gordon Rennie used to spill his bile duct, though, and would welcome a similarly short piece again.
Another thumbs down for creator interviews and 'behind the scenes' stuff. It winds me up no end when I buy a graphic novel to find that the last 20 or 30 pages are padded out with sketches or even scripts - why would I wnat to read the script when I've just read the comic? We're paying for product, all the behind the scenes stuff is niche interest only and belongs on the internet where people who want that can find it.
As for creator interviews, for many years I didn't even glance at the 'credit cards', I didn't know or care who'd done what, it was the character I was interested in. Of course nowadays I'm much more aware and have my likes and dislikes among craetors, but I still don't care where they went to art college or at which convention they showed their samples to someone.
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 22 March, 2010, 12:55:38 PM
I liked it when Gordon Rennie used to spill his bile duct, though, and would welcome a similarly short piece again.
Get rid of all the articles, give the pages over to Gordon to vent his spleen and I'd start buying the Meg again.
Quote from: Dandontdare on 22 March, 2010, 01:32:45 PM
We're paying for product, all the behind the scenes stuff is niche interest only and belongs on the internet where people who want that can find it.
So, you're happy with the film reviews, then?
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 22 March, 2010, 12:55:38 PM
I liked it when Gordon Rennie used to spill his bile duct, though, and would welcome a similarly short piece again.
I'd vote for that, they were hilarious. More bile I say!
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 22 March, 2010, 01:36:29 PM
So, you're happy with the film reviews, then?
Lord no, they've never felt appropriate for the Meg, as I've often said.
If we must have text articles for cost reasons, then I'd like to see funny opinion pieces (as above); short stories based on strips (why not a short story comp? Some of the tales on this board show that there's plenty of talent out there in fandom); small press reviews/samples; or features like we used to see in the specials and annuals, such as vehicle cutatways, organisational diagrams for justice dept sections, top 10 villians etc (although some of these might not work out much cheaper than strips).
I'd like to see:
ImagineFX-style articles about how different artists work - could throw in some sneak peeks of upcoming projects etc
Behind the scenes extras - creative team talk about their upcoming 2000ad/Meg series - could include character designs/sketches etc... could bundle the feature when the story is collected in a graphic novel.
Quoteorganisational diagrams for justice dept sections
no disrespect intended, DDD- but...
really? I can't think for the life of me why- unless you're a roleplayer. It's not any less of a niche market than the articles being suggested. More so I'd say, and pretty dull reading to boot.
Quotetop 10 villians etc
We've had 'top x whatever' articles before. 10 graphic novels spread across as much space as they can humanly take up with descending into the utterly ridiculous. Now those 'articles' really do feel like filler. Even more so than the film and TV reviews. I couldn't care less which villains some guy who writes articles in the Meg thinks are best. Is his opinion any more valid than mine or yours?
Not really.
I take your point but those kind of lists appeal to my inner geek. They may be a bit childish, but I used to absoutely love that kind of stuff - maps, timelines, diagrams etc. Hell, I'd prefer to read a two-page piece with pictures about the changing shape of Dredd's helmet than some script-droid's CV.
ddd- so you're saying my inner geek would should not be sated, but your inner geek should ? :P
-pj
Droids shouldn't have an inner geek - report to Mek-quake for removal at once! :P
On a more serious note, yes, I think it IS more about satisfying readers and subscribers than creators - isn't it?
No harm to you; but just because I'm a 'creator' doesn't make me a non-reader/subscriber. I pay my credits the same way you do...
Also: I'm wondering why everyone agin' my ideas seem to think they're speaking for ALL of the more general readers - have you all been elected or something?
-pj
You know, I'm not suggestion the Meg SHOULD/WOULD become a magazine all about making comics for 2000AD (ok, I said I'd like it to - but I also conceded it was a selfish idea), I AM suggesting 'here's a couple of articles I would like: what about you'. This isn't a zero sum game...
-pj
Quote from: pauljholden on 22 March, 2010, 05:22:41 PM
No harm to you; but just because I'm a 'creator' doesn't make me a non-reader/subscriber. I pay my credits the same way you do...
Also: I'm wondering why everyone agin' my ideas seem to think they're speaking for ALL of the more general readers - have you all been elected or something?
-pj
you don't even get a comp issue? Sheesh, how cheap!
I get a couple of comps when I'm in it. - but I've subscribed for years (since they introduced subscriptions, actually).
-pj
Quote from: Dandontdare on 22 March, 2010, 04:57:52 PMHell, I'd prefer to read a two-page piece with pictures about the changing shape of Dredd's helmet than some script-droid's CV.
Ah ha!! Now you see this be in the same vein as the D'Israeli-influenced one about the design of Mega-City One. I suspect if we aren't on similar pages we are close ;)
I don't know about commissioning new cut-way art (although it is possibly this could be recycled heavily and pay for itself eventually) but they already own the original art and there are some nice cut-aways already on file that'd be good to see reprinted:
http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=dredd&page=tek
So a general outline of "Designing Dredd" would be:
- Classic extracts from the comics showing the different designs
- A knowledgeable droid giving an overview and/or a few quick words snatched from those that contributed (if you had a list of future articles you'd only need to bother them once and then drop snippets into appropriate articles)
- Perhaps exerts from the "Dredd bible" that was made for the first film
- Possibly a look at how these have been portrayed in other media
Lots of nice images (all already paid for) with some suitably enlightening text putting it all in context and a different one each month:
- Mega-City One
- Specific buildings Resyk, Academy of Law (if there is a lot of variation then this could be broken down to look at individuals ones)
- The Lawmaster
- The Lawgiver
- Uniforms (possibly break it down if there is enough material into the different types of Judges and those from overseas)
- Other vehicles H Wagon, prowl tank
- Cheeky ones like The Dredd Link Controversy
You could easily get a couple of pages every month for 1-2 years out of that largely using art already paid for. It would be interesting in its own right, help ease newer (or returning) readers into the history of Dredd (and also handily explaining what some of the locations and bits of kit are and what they are used for when some rarely used piece of technology proves key for a stories resolution), it'd be entertaining for older readers who get a nostalgia fix and it'd be very useful for the influx of readers you'd expect to pick up from the Dredd film (and might help with the vital aspect - retention). You could probably collect published pages and flesh it out and make a reasonably sized and interesting book.
You also mentioned maps - a world map would be interesting, as might a look at the different Mega Cities around the world and other locations (as well as how their design and layout has changed).
As an ex-film reviewer for the Meg, I feel I have to stick up for the film reviews column currently written by Andrew Osmond. I don't think we can underestimate (for better or worse) just how much movies are becoming a part of comics culture (the newly launched Comic Heroes magazine certainly doesn't disagree). For this reason at least, I believe the film column definitely warrants a place in the Meg! I believe Andrew offers – as does every journalist writing for the Megazine – a contribution every bit as valuable as those made by the comic writers and artists.
What's that you say? You can find this sort of information elsewhere? Well, that's great news because the film column doesn't offer information; it offers OPINION. Unique, difficult, challenging, well-informed OPINION, which actually engages the brain, and which a lot of movie magazines don't like as it doesn't agree often enough with the studio's PR department, who in many cases are a bunch of [***THE FOLLOWING TWELVE-PARAGRAPH RANT ABOUT THE STATE OF MAINSTREAM FILM JOURNALISM BY AN EMBITTERED FREELANCER HAS BEEN CENSORED. BY THE WAY, DID I TELL YOU ABOUT THE TIME I HEARD CENSORED THREATEN A DISTRIBUTOR WITH A BAD REVIEW JUST BECAUSE THERE WASN'T ANY CATERING BEFORE THE SCREENING...? S'TRUE.***]
We as geeks thrive on opinion, it's what drives us to blogs and forums like these where we can clash with opposing views, challenge our own conceptions of the genre we love and enrich our understanding of it.
If you don't like the reviews, then for Christ's sake skip them! There's plenty more of interest to read in the Meg if film isn't your bag. For me, however, Andrew's film column remains a valuable, unbiased and knowledgeable voice in the increasingly movie-centric world of comics.
Quote from: wrly_bird on 22 March, 2010, 06:50:08 PM
If you don't like the reviews, then for Christ's sake skip them! There's plenty more of interest to read in the Meg if film isn't your bag. For me, however, Andrew's film column remains a valuable, unbiased and knowledgeable voice in the increasingly movie-centric world of comics.
At a fiver a pop, I resent skipping
any part of the Meg, TBH. The majority of the time the bagged "GN" contains material I remember with sufficient clarity that I don't bother reading it. Insult to injury, then, to get to the magazine proper and find still more material that I'm paying for and not reading.
I am
not, absolutely, unequivocally
not making any comment on the quality of Andrew's material, and I realize that I may have sounded like I'm specifically bashing the film reviews. This was not my intention -- I don't much care for the "You Should Be Reading/Watching" pieces either. I just don't feel that this sort of column adds much value to the publication and I think it's worth contemplating what sorts of material might add more.
Cheers
Jim
Hey, no worries, Jim. Wasn't having a pop at you at all. Damn this forum. Just when I thought I was out, it pulls me back in...
No one is criticising the quality of the reviews just their position in the meg and that's fair game for such a specialist comic that caters to a specific audience and is more expensive than it's big brother.
I don't think we need to be told that films are relevant to our comic culture, that's why we have current film mags devoted to them that cover those aspects and I don't see many of them introducing 3-5 page comic strips into their pages either and that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. As someone who works in the Film/TV production world, I enjoy films as much as the next man but if I want independent film reviews, I'll read a film mag or go on the web. I'd rather see extended stories fill those pages in the meg or another strip. I buy the meg for it's comic related material. There's enough review material concerning books and comics all ready in there without introducing another medium. It's not reader's digest.
Sorry if this upsets anybody but opinions should not become a whine.
I generally like the film reviews. I'm sorry, it's a sickness - I think the relevant defective gene is located on the same chromosome that carries the gene that allows me to find Tank Girl pleasing. I get to the cinema maybe three or four times a year, and usually to watch genre stuff (big 'splosions betterer on big screen, hurrrrgh) so a dedicated movie mag is wasted on me, but an awareness of what's out there is handy.
I did like them more when you-know-who was doing them, but the new bloke is okay too.
All that said, I'm perpetually on the verge of dropping the Meg, so I may not be the right man to ask.
QuoteWhat's that you say? You can find this sort of information elsewhere? Well, that's great news because the film column doesn't offer information; it offers OPINION. Unique, difficult, challenging, well-informed OPINION, which actually engages the brain, and which a lot of movie magazines don't like as it doesn't agree often enough with the studio's PR department...
That's as may be, but I don't care. I'm not interested.
I'm perfectly capable of watching a film and formulating my own opinion- it's not like I don't have experience- I've been watching films and TV for decades. Like the 'top 10' lists- the reviewers opinion is only relevant to HIM/HER and it doesn't make them right because it is just opinion. How 'informed' do you need to be to watch a film and decide if you like it or not? No offense intended- but I don't care what his or anyone else's opinion of any film is.
QuoteIf you don't like the reviews, then for Christ's sake skip them!
What? Every bloody month? 3 pages this time 6 pages another time, 3 pages the next- fuck off! I'm really, really sick of seeing them as I skip past them every month- for how long?
I will always be vehemently opposed to them- it's not the money, it's the principle. Despite the Meg not firing on all cylinders to the point where it needs to look for cheap filler and gimmicky ways of presenting reprint to keep it afloat, many of us continue to buy as a means of supporting it through bad times in the hope it will pick up again. We accept (though we may grumble)that we have to have articles. That's pretty loyal- most people just stop buying it which leads it to the current state. Our reward?
Bloody film reviews, every month, for a couple of years, without fail.
QuoteThere's plenty more of interest to read in the Meg if film isn't your bag.
A rather debatable and contentious statement which opens up an even bigger minefield.
QuoteFor me, however, Andrew's film column remains a valuable, unbiased and knowledgeable voice in the increasingly movie-centric world of comics.
I don't think comics are increasingly movie-centric. I would say that it's the other way round. Just another fad in filmaking. It comes and it will go. The fickle voice of the public will rail against it at some point, and the moguls interests will die away. They'll drop comics like a stone and we'll all go back to being uncool geeks again.
QuoteI generally like the film reviews... I get to the cinema maybe three or four times a year, and usually to watch genre stuff... so a dedicated movie mag is wasted on me, but an awareness of what's out there is handy.
Sorry TB, but again- I don't care! I don't buy my Meg to support your film going habits. Nae offence, like. :)
I'm sorry if this feels like I'm picking a fight with anyone- that's not my intention at all- I just fucking hate those things with an absolute PASSION, I'll never quietly accept them and any time the subject is raised I will always be aggressively against their inclusion- they piss me off that much.
If you want to read about films and the industry- put your bloody hand in your pocket and buy a film magazine- support independent film magazines (because I don't care about the state of independent film journalism- it's not what I buy the Meg for either) or look for review sites on the internet, whatever you want. Just get them the fuck out of my comic!
As for the argument that it might bring new readers who wouldn't normally buy the Meg- utter pish.
You can't even get half of the people who read the Prog and are interested enough to buy
it to buy the Meg. If you expect the average 'Nuts' or 'FHM' buyer to suddenly start buying 3 pages of film reviews at £5 a month then you need to take a reality check. It isn't 'a sound business strategy'- it's absolute mentalism.
Another idea I had (which came to me in tonight's Wednesday Chat) - a feature on continental comics. There are a tonne of them out there and a lot that'd appeal to 2000 AD readers but finding out what they are and where to get them is tricky. Would work very nicely alongside possibly getting the reprint rights for something Twoth worth to run alongside it (must be cheaper than commissioning original material and there are some knocking around that have been translated but are out of print or never been collected - as there have been a few anthologies publishing them over the years, like Cheval Noir). Hmmmmm typing that out now makes me wonder if I've not suggested this before.
I don't mind the film reviews at all. They suffer from the usual problem of any monthly mag of being mostly after the release date, but I'm always happy enough to read another opinion of one I haven't seen yet.
Articles about the mechanics of making comics have no appeal for me so, in the spirit of PJ's original post, what would? If not proper short stories then something about actual sci-fi rather than loons in pants, which could look into a whole host of writers and their work. Retrospectives of the likes of Dick, Moorcock, Wyndham and so on would be a decent primer for a lot of people along with themed articles like:
- Space Opera from EE "Doc" Smith to Iain "M" Banks.
- Hard sci-fi from Clarke to Egan.
- Future war: Dorsai, the Forever War, Starship Troopers.
- Books that 2000AD's nicked ideas from.
- Classic British sci-fi from Wells to Wyndham
Just remember to include a link to Amazon somewhere on here so people can give Tharg a bit of a kickback when they rush to buy books as a result.
Yeah - I'd happily read those articles Cosh!
-pj
They should just print the pictures from the Famke Jansen Underware (sic) thread
The film reviews amongst other things was teh cherry on the cake that made me give up the, I was skipping more of teh meg than I was reading so in the end decided that I wasn't prepared to pay £5 for one Dredd story and I class myself as a pretty big dredd fan but I've managed to go three months without a Meg.
one of wrly's comments made me smile :"opinions"!!!! dear god has he not been reading lately? :P
having an opinion about a film and publishing it ? do you have no idea the amount of flak that can cause? or is it just comic fans who are not allowed to potentially upset the creators? for all you know tim burton could be rog in disguise and if his masterpiece that was alice ( ;)) was derided or looked on dis favoirably by a person with an OPINION he may decide to stop posting here again !
i stand by my comment that reviews and OPINIONS can be found all over the t'internet and as dog states ,i'll make my own mind up ta.i want to find comic stuff in my comic .not film reviews wether they are relevant or not especially the new dredd movie as i fear some bias...i have a brother who reviews everywhere...he says ;)and just cos he dont like something dont mean i wont...
if you want reviews or OPINIONS on anything read sfx or sci fi now or empire or indeedy any other mag... i want my meg to be dredd or tempest kicking ass and taking names with the occasional "dvd extras" that are the creator interviews or features in it...