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General Chat => Creative Common => Topic started by: pauljholden on 28 April, 2010, 12:44:35 AM

Title: Composition
Post by: pauljholden on 28 April, 2010, 12:44:35 AM
I know NOTHING proper about composition (being self taught). So I thought I'd try and rally what little it is I think I know about it in this post:

http://pjholden.posterous.com/composition-57

Open for discussion!

-pj
Title: Re: Composition
Post by: Emperor on 28 April, 2010, 01:17:48 AM
Good stuff - what struck me when you look at it in detail is the white "V" shape made from the general cavern, with the point in the top left hand corner area and Dredd sitting inside the angle within a black area. So it grabs the eye right at the start of the panel and then draws you down diagonally to the mutant and then the eye goes across to the area of highest contrast (and on as your arrows indicate).
Title: Re: Composition
Post by: Pete Wells on 28 April, 2010, 07:00:00 AM
Great stuff PJ, you're one of the good guys!
Title: Re: Composition
Post by: pauljholden on 28 April, 2010, 10:44:46 AM
Gordon was kind enough to ok the inclusion of the script in that post, so now there's even MORE to it! (Updated text in green).

Glad people seem to find it interesting. Please pass the link around!

http://pjholden.posterous.com/composition-57
Title: Re: Composition
Post by: Emperor on 28 April, 2010, 05:35:33 PM
That's great - really very useful. Thanks to you and Gordon for that.
Title: Re: Composition
Post by: pauljholden on 03 May, 2010, 05:17:51 PM
In a similair theme, the following post has a new coloured page (the page isn't new, and the colouring is just me playing) but also a "how I'd redraw this" sketch.

http://pjholden.posterous.com/composition-revist
Title: Re: Composition
Post by: Gibson Quarter on 03 May, 2010, 06:00:19 PM
Cool...

Yea, it might be a little stiff in the original, but come on P.J. ,it was still a great splash page!

I can relate to the desire to redraw pages later...why is it the ideas only come up after its been published?  ::)
Title: Re: Composition
Post by: pauljholden on 03 May, 2010, 06:03:15 PM
I've updated that page - Al Ewing pointed out on twitter, that, in the context of the story, the figure of Dredd being less knowingly heroic works far better (in fact, I think, the more heroic Dredd would really have worked against the intent of the writer/story)

In the context of a poster or one off image, though...

-pj
Title: Re: Composition
Post by: radiator on 03 May, 2010, 06:07:51 PM
QuoteI've updated that page - Al Ewing pointed out on twitter, that, in the context of the story, the figure of Dredd being less knowingly heroic works far better (in fact, I think, the more heroic Dredd would really have worked against the intent of the writer/story)

It could work in an ironic way, though - the contrast between the heroic pose and shambolic looking armour.
Title: Re: Composition
Post by: pauljholden on 03 May, 2010, 06:21:24 PM
Ach, well, story's too bed now... I was thinking of reworking it as a print or something... maybe...

-pj
Title: Re: Composition
Post by: Colin MacNeil on 03 May, 2010, 07:22:10 PM
Yeah, composition can be really, really frustrating.
I've known of several artists who use the "golden section" form of composition, but I've always considered it a bit limiting. Rather, let the page compose itself. The page is made up of image and text, so what may look right un-lettered may turn out to be too fussy looking when letterd. Vice versa, a page which looks a bit "light" image-wise may look just perfect once lettered.
There's no real hard and fast rule for composition that I've seen in 20+ years of drawing comics.
This is how I compose a page.
Read the script.
Go do something else for a bit.
Lay out the borders of the page.
Re-read the script and make some very general marks on the page about roughly where the panels are and what they contain. (blobs and stick figures)
Re-read the script with a view to space needed for lettering/logo etc.
Indicate on page roughly how much space is needed for the lettering.
Re-draw/re-align panels and images to make room for lettering.
Start the final pencils and do the inks.

Generally this method works (for me), though unless you do the lettering yourself you can never guarantee where exactly where the letterer will put certain balloons. As a result some pages work, some don't. As long as more work than don't, then you're on to a winner.

Hope this may help.

Cheers

Colin
Title: Re: Composition
Post by: mygrimmbrother on 03 May, 2010, 07:32:39 PM
Thanks for that post Colin, very useful.
Title: Re: Composition
Post by: Emperor on 28 June, 2010, 04:07:02 AM
There is an analysis of a couple of manga pages looking at how the art (and lettering) help with the flow across the page, I think it fits here:

http://telophase.livejournal.com/91840.html
Title: Re: Composition
Post by: CrazyFoxMachine on 29 June, 2010, 11:10:48 AM
PJ - just read it through and I really really love that. The greatest thing an artist can do is pick apart their method and reconstruct the way they draw. I know it's all guff coming from an ameytoor like me but that's my favourite thing about your art - it's always constantly shifting forward. I shall utilize this.