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the news around town is he copped a bullet during a Seal raid,  well done to the soldiers that did the deed he was an evil man.  Still dont think the whole terror thing is over it's just good this piece of crap has been dealt with.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8243521/bin-laden-is-dead-reports

CU Radbacker

True. In the scheme of things , it is just one head of the snake but a very important one at that. Wouldn't it be great if Al-Qaeda reacted like the Wicked Witch's henchmen at the end of The Wizard of Oz and threw down down their arms after their oppressive leader has copped it?

Quote from: strontium71 on 02 May, 2011, 11:04:44 AM
True. In the scheme of things , it is just one head of the snake but a very important one at that.

Indeed. I've never seen a snake with more than one though, to be honest!

SBT

They've all ready buried him?

QuoteOfficial: Bin Laden buried at sea
(AP) – 2 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — A U.S. official says Osama bin Laden has been buried at sea.
After bin Laden was killed in a raid by U.S. forces in Pakistan, senior administration officials said the body would be handled according to Islamic practice and tradition. That practice calls for the body to be buried within 24 hours, the official said. Finding a country willing to accept the remains of the world's most wanted terrorist would have been difficult, the official said. So the U.S. decided to bury him at sea.
The official, who spoke Monday on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive national security matters, did not immediately say where that occurred.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hKuNAChkdQ2L9WPCYDVQiN77ivkA?docId=8438621e67ee44308469f05a7c2972ef (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hKuNAChkdQ2L9WPCYDVQiN77ivkA?docId=8438621e67ee44308469f05a7c2972ef)

Quote from: strontium71 on 02 May, 2011, 11:04:44 AM
True. In the scheme of things , it is just one head of the snake but a very important one at that.

Considering there were only 100 members that existed of Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan before the invasion, it's a snake that grew from war. 10 years later it all feels a bit of an anti-climax with millions dead, $6 trillion of debt (none of it spent on the wounded veterans) and the Middle-East in bits.

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 02 May, 2011, 11:06:09 AM

Quote from: strontium71 on 02 May, 2011, 11:04:44 AM
True. In the scheme of things , it is just one head of the snake but a very important one at that.

Indeed. I've never seen a snake with more than one though, to be honest!

SBT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lernaean_Hydra

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 02 May, 2011, 11:11:31 AM
They've all ready buried him?

QuoteOfficial: Bin Laden buried at sea
(AP) – 2 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — A U.S. official says Osama bin Laden has been buried at sea.
After bin Laden was killed in a raid by U.S. forces in Pakistan, senior administration officials said the body would be handled according to Islamic practice and tradition. That practice calls for the body to be buried within 24 hours, the official said. Finding a country willing to accept the remains of the world's most wanted terrorist would have been difficult, the official said. So the U.S. decided to bury him at sea.
The official, who spoke Monday on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive national security matters, did not immediately say where that occurred.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hKuNAChkdQ2L9WPCYDVQiN77ivkA?docId=8438621e67ee44308469f05a7c2972ef (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hKuNAChkdQ2L9WPCYDVQiN77ivkA?docId=8438621e67ee44308469f05a7c2972ef)

The good thing about this is there won't be a shrine to his grave had there been a land based resting place.

Quote from: strontium71 on 02 May, 2011, 11:16:51 AMThe good thing about this is there won't be a shrine to his grave had there been a land based resting place.

Did they have to dispose of the body within 24 hours though, shouldn't there be independent proof it's him?

I think , like the article says , the US are acting in accordance with Islamic tradition - I don't know anything about Islam so I presume that's correct. But like you said , it's all been done and dusted very quickly. Hopefully there has been definite confirmation with DNA and the like.

'Respect', that'll be a first, I find it hard to see how respect comes into it since he was supposed to be the no. 1 bad guy especially after the way Saddam Husein was humilliated repeatedly from his capture to his death -Muslim or not- not to mention the pictures of Hussein's dead sons that were repeatedly brandished on air yet not one of Osama has made it yet.

I agree - but I think the US is being overly sensitive on this one , don't want to inflame the situation even more.

Quote from: strontium71 on 02 May, 2011, 11:39:11 AM
I agree - but I think the US is being overly sensitive on this one , don't want to inflame the situation even more.

Invading Libya is part of that 'sensitivity' too? That won't inflame?

There were reports of some in the US media - they weren't confirmed though.

The difference between Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein was more it was under the control (or apparent control) of the Iraqis rather than the US.

Also, Obama's less obviously gung-ho about this kind of thing than Bush was.

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 02 May, 2011, 11:41:54 AM

Quote from: strontium71 on 02 May, 2011, 11:39:11 AM
I agree - but I think the US is being overly sensitive on this one , don't want to inflame the situation even more.

Invading Libya is part of that 'sensitivity' too? That won't inflame?

They seemed pretty reluctant to intervene in Libya to start with, it seemed to be more Europe-led.

Seems strange to dispose of the body so soon - Islamic tradition or not. I hope they got lots of independent verification otherwise the conspiracy theorists and Donald Trump will have a field day.

On a lighter note Sickipedia (http://www.sickipedia.org/subcategory/view/3233) is nearing meltdown.

My favourite is 'I didn't know they took the bins out on a bank holiday' and 'Bin Laden and Henry Cooper both dead? that must have been some fight!'.

See if you can spot my feeble effort scoring around the 4.6 mark at present.

Quote from: Buttonman on 02 May, 2011, 11:50:55 AMSeems strange to dispose of the body so soon - Islamic tradition or not. I hope they got lots of independent verification otherwise the conspiracy theorists and Donald Trump will have a field day.

Exactly, they seem to want to encourage it.

Quote from: Steve Green on 02 May, 2011, 11:43:45 AMThe difference between Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein was more it was under the control (or apparent control) of the Iraqis rather than the US.

Not his capture or the killing of his sons though. I wouldn't say it was Obama's decision to get rid of the body within 24 hours.

Quote from: Steve Green on 02 May, 2011, 11:45:25 AM

They seemed pretty reluctant to intervene in Libya to start with, it seemed to be more Europe-led.

Merely a PR exercise, the US will be doing the heavy-lifting. If Europe/NATO opposed it may not have happened but they were persuaded.

In the end, 'interests' come first. 'Stability' of oil resources etc.

Dont believe the hype.

I think its just PR to legitimise 10 years of "War On Terror" expenditure and loss of life and to increase the popularity of a failing POTUS and adminstration before the next election as it was/is proving to be very unpopular plus Bin Laden was becoming increasingly irrelevent in the scheme of things partly due to people becoming very sceptical of it all and openly questioning the existence of Bin Laden and also the open derision that followed the various Bin Laden tapes presented by intelligence agencies and govt.This is an official closure on the existence and whereabouts of Bin Laden.Besides info has been filtering from intelligence agencies that Bin Laden has been dead for years.

The Obama announcement was just more "War On Terror" propaganda and Obama and the Obama adminstration will now celebrate itself along with the attendent MSM propaganda feeding frenzy where various pundits will be wheeled out to re-enforce the official line and its implications.

Thats the way i see it.

Also the reports of Bin Laden being buried at sea are very curious.Another thing that is very curious is that a week or so ago the Pakistani govt kicked out the US form an airbase on its soil that was used by the US to launch drone attacks so where this goes now regarding Pakistan will be interesting because Pakistan will be accused of harboring  terrorists more than it is already.

Quote from: strontium71 on 02 May, 2011, 11:04:44 AM
Wouldn't it be great if Al-Qaeda reacted like the Wicked Witch's henchmen at the end of The Wizard of Oz and threw down down their arms after their oppressive leader has copped it?

Very unlikely as it will likely result in retaliation on their part or what will appear to be retaliation [attacks on US soil and military bases etc] to extend the whole thing for another few years at the very least..........

Quote from: strontium71 on 02 May, 2011, 11:16:51 AM

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 02 May, 2011, 11:11:31 AM
They've all ready buried him?

QuoteOfficial: Bin Laden buried at sea
(AP) – 2 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — A U.S. official says Osama bin Laden has been buried at sea.
After bin Laden was killed in a raid by U.S. forces in Pakistan, senior administration officials said the body would be handled according to Islamic practice and tradition. That practice calls for the body to be buried within 24 hours, the official said. Finding a country willing to accept the remains of the world's most wanted terrorist would have been difficult, the official said. So the U.S. decided to bury him at sea.
The official, who spoke Monday on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive national security matters, did not immediately say where that occurred.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hKuNAChkdQ2L9WPCYDVQiN77ivkA?docId=8438621e67ee44308469f05a7c2972ef (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hKuNAChkdQ2L9WPCYDVQiN77ivkA?docId=8438621e67ee44308469f05a7c2972ef)

The good thing about this is there won't be a shrine to his grave had there been a land based resting place.

Its very interesting how the US doesnt ever extend the same courtesy to all of the other Muslims who have died at their hands and in any case they could just as easily have just dug a hole in the desert as an unmarked grave for Bin Laden if there is any truth in this at all.

Quote from: strontium71 on 02 May, 2011, 11:39:11 AM
I agree - but I think the US is being overly sensitive on this one , don't want to inflame the situation even more.

They must be having a day off from that then.


Moron this as it unfolds.....

Osama Bin Laden buried at sea with full 'Navy of Al-Quaeda in the Arabian Gulf' honours.

I'm on a mother-fuckin' boat...

This is apparently his death picture.

Quote from: strontium71 on 02 May, 2011, 12:18:40 PM
This is apparently his death picture.

Sorry, it's a fake:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5-b7KKmCd4&feature=player_embedded



Is it any wonder people are cynical.

But it was from a reputable site ha ha :lol:

Quote from: strontium71 on 02 May, 2011, 12:23:30 PM
But it was from a reputable site ha ha :lol:

Do they exist?

What's wrong, Joe, got the 'ump 'cos your mate's dead?!!

You do love those conspiracies Pete.

Well he's dead, whatever you believe about when he died.

Quote from: Old Tankie on 02 May, 2011, 12:40:33 PM
What's wrong, Joe, got the 'ump 'cos your mate's dead?!!

No, just the millions of bodies it took to get to him. Wood and trees comes to mind. Justified? just for 2-minutes-of-hate after 10 years? Maybe I've different priorities, forgive me if I don't cheer, it's not like the royal wedding.

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 02 May, 2011, 12:21:23 PM
...fake

haven't followed that link- but that's the photoshopped picture of "Bin Laden dies under US questioning and torture" pic that was doing the rounds back in 2007.

SBT

Thank grud this thread is sensible- unlike the one at a certain huge Dr Who forum I frequent, where the following messages have been posted by moderators:

"I hope you're comfortable with us adding "R.I.P." to your thread title, because it's a strict requirement in this section. If you're not comfortable with that, you'll be wanting the relevant threads in the Crater of Needles section.

Expect the thread title to be amended within a few hours, unless we hear from you."

and...

"I have removed a number of inappropriate posts from this thread.

As with the death of any other person, this thread in Tranquil Repose should be kept dignified and should not become inflammatory.

In both threads, the forum rules about personal attacks on individuals apply, to Bin Laden as to any other person."

Ferfuckssakes!

SBT

You're not truly dead until at least three interwoven conspiracy theories have sprung up around you.

Gotta love the internet and the unstoppable rise of opinion being anything of worth.

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 02 May, 2011, 11:06:09 AM

Quote from: strontium71 on 02 May, 2011, 11:04:44 AM
True. In the scheme of things , it is just one head of the snake but a very important one at that.

Indeed. I've never seen a snake with more than one though, to be honest!

SBT

Google "two headed snake". You'll see loads. Real ones.

Quote from: strontium71 on 02 May, 2011, 11:25:20 AMI think , like the article says , the US are acting in accordance with Islamic tradition - I don't know anything about Islam so I presume that's correct.

President Barack Hussein Osama II would know*.









* Or not (http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim.htm/)

I have to admit I was a little bit uncomfortable with all the celebrating us Americans did. People taking to the streets, drinking and mobbing just doesn't sit well with me - a candlelit vigil, remembering the people who died in the WTC, would have been more appropriate. We just came off as sore "winners" in my eyes, and I felt a little bit of regret there.

Oh, I'm happy he's gone, don't get me wrong.

But really, Bin Laden "won" in my eyes.

He killed hundreds, if not thousands of people, both civilians and soldiers,
He's cost the US billions or trillions of dollars to search for him and, in effect, engage in two wars, and stayed alive and on the run for over a decade. He proved that the US is not invincible, put a real chink in our armor.

Anyway, my two cents.

Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 02 May, 2011, 02:38:53 PM
I have to admit I was a little bit uncomfortable with all the celebrating us Americans did. People taking to the streets, drinking and mobbing just doesn't sit well with me - a candlelit vigil, remembering the people who died in the WTC, would have been more appropriate. We just came off as sore "winners" in my eyes, and I felt a little bit of regret there.

Oh, I'm happy he's gone, don't get me wrong.

But really, Bin Laden "won" in my eyes.

He killed hundreds, if not thousands of people, both civilians and soldiers,
He's cost the US billions or trillions of dollars to search for him and, in effect, engage in two wars, and stayed alive and on the run for over a decade. He proved that the US is not invincible, put a real chink in our armor.

Anyway, my two cents.

Two cents well spent, in my view.

Hopefuly this will give at least some of those who lost loved ones some sort of closure, but sadly I fear the problems and issues that inspired 9/11 have only become greater in the intervening time.

Regards

Robin

Absolutely great news, cos it for 7/7!  - and burying him at sea is a masterstroke - no shrine left!

It's probably for the best that Osama Bin Laden took a couple of rounds through the head, can you imagine the media frenzy if he'd been captured alive and put on trial in New York or Washington DC?  On the other hand the real mastermind behind  Al-Qaida, Ayman al-Zawahiri is still free, though not for much longer hopefully.

But it looks like Barack Obama has booked his 2nd term in office which has to be a good thing considering the opposition. By the way, I too felt uncomfortable at seeing Americans celebrating and chanting "USA,USA,USA!" it seems inappropriate, ugly and to be honest, somewhat fascistic.

Quote from: Peter Wolf on 02 May, 2011, 12:07:14 PM
...Also the reports of Bin Laden being buried at sea are very curious....

See that? That's going to be central to the construction of any conspiracy theory concerning this.

The Yanks really aren't doing themselves any favours by celebrating.

I dunno, i think theyve got every right to celebrate, very publicly, the shooting of the man they see as entirely responsible for sept 11th, and the untold number of soldiers returning home in coffins.

Whether he was or not is by the by, but criticising them for this outpouring of public joy is a little too much like hand wringing and is somewhat fey for my tastes. I for one am very glad the bearded loon is dead, i hope his death was painful, i hope he shat himself in his final minutes and i hope that we'll see many more such raids very soon, taking out the rest of them.

SBT

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 02 May, 2011, 04:19:03 PM
I dunno, i think theyve got every right to celebrate, very publicly, the shooting of the man they see as entirely responsible for sept 11th, and the untold number of soldiers returning home in coffins.

When the WTC went down and our news showed footage of Arabic peoples celebrating in the streets we were infuriated. In essence, we've now done the same thing. This will only provoke more violence and  retaliation on - if not a large scale - in smaller ways. We have to remember our guys in Iraq and Afghanistan are patrolling villages on foot - those are the guys at risk because some idiots had to pop champagne over Bin Laden's death. As an American, and the husband to someone who has been to Afghanistan twice now, and may go again before she's out of the military - I regret what I saw this morning.

I suppose my problem with the celebrations is that some're acting like they have prevailed over all terrorists everywhere. And they haven't.

But locusts, you're asking an entire nation to go against everything theyve been told for the past decade. To disregard two successive administrations worth of rhetoric, and not to celebrate because they may upset the very people they see as the enemy. In effect, not to rile the terrorists. To let them win. There was no way on earth they were ever going to do that. Never. And we havent even seen the start of it yet. The news right now, this minute, is interviewing americans about how pleased they are.

Sometimes you have to stand up and say what you think, and celebrate the defeat of your enemies- no matter how misguided it may seem. My own wife is flying long haul to north america in a week, and im worried about the implication of reprisals too, but i can absolutely understand why they did it, and support them.

SBT

But they did "win". People just don't realize that. See my first post in this thread.

I'm not saying what people should or shouldn't do - I expressing how I feel about what they do. I don't like it. I don't like my friends from back home messaging me to tell me that they're having a block party tonight to celebrate. It doesn't sit well with me. That's all I'm saying.

And that absolutely does you credit, locusts. Your situation is different, as you have a very personal connection, and i respect that. But my grud, the sheer level of catharsis in america today must be incredible.

But yes, youre absolutely right. To 'keep the peace', a more low level celebration wouldve been better. But we dont know if al qaeda even have the capability to retaliate, or whether its just a bunch of saber-rattling young men with big mouths left.

SBT

I don't see any 'winners' when we consider how murky the history of all this is, even going back to BIn Laden, Mujahadeen/'Al-Qaeda' funding and training in Afghanistan by the US and Saudi starting in 1979 and then the selling of WMD to Saddam, the subsequent propagandistic conflation of both issues after the destruction of the twin towers leading to twin invasions in the space of a decade.

Both countries in ruins with many dead in the US, Britain and Spain too. Plenty of money for the men-in-charge though and a continuum of sombre warfare that is now longer than Vietnam and the longest in US  history. It is fast becoming the Forever War.

A rather pyrrhic victory, if even that.

I personally think that anyone who delights in the death of another person- any person- is seriously sick in the fucking head.

Man, if the first Dredd picture practically caused multiple flame wars, I'm giving THIS thread a WIDE berth ...

-pj

Quote from: pauljholden on 02 May, 2011, 05:32:51 PM
Man, if the first Dredd picture practically caused multiple flame wars, I'm giving THIS thread a WIDE berth ...

-pj

It was fine till you turned up with your 'niceness' ;)

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 02 May, 2011, 05:16:50 PM
It is fast becoming the Forever War.

That's absolutely right. It's not a war on a specific country or organisation. It's a war on terror. How do you win that?

I don't think 'winning' or an 'end' were considered.The objective is war.

Yes, can't we all just get together and tell tasteless Bin Laden jokes we can all agree on?

OT: I wish Cam Kennedy had drawn a 2000AD adaptation of the Forever War back in da 80's. May have craped Halo J's style though.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_War_(comics)

Quote from: Richmond Clements on 02 May, 2011, 05:28:05 PM
I personally think that anyone who delights in the death of another person- any person- is seriously sick in the fucking head.

Yup.

Nope.

SBT

I won't believe it until the inevitable Michael Bay/Will Smith movie comes out!

Quote from: dweezil2 on 02 May, 2011, 06:27:42 PM
I won't believe it until the inevitable Michael Bay/Will Smith movie comes out!

Will 'Will' be playing Bin Laden?

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 02 May, 2011, 06:28:47 PM

Quote from: dweezil2 on 02 May, 2011, 06:27:42 PM
I won't believe it until the inevitable Michael Bay/Will Smith movie comes out!

Will 'Will' be playing Bin Laden?

Hey, it wouldn't as bad a career move as starring in Hitch!

They can call it I AM TERROR.

I'm not sure Uncle Phil would approve

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 02 May, 2011, 06:24:30 PM
Nope.

SBT

Yes, perhaps my admittedly simplistic belief that people should not be killing each other is wrong.
I shall attempt to take more pleasure in the pain, suffering and death of other humans and see how it improves my life.

Quote from: pops1983 on 02 May, 2011, 06:38:50 PM
I'm not sure Uncle Phil would approve

He could play Colin Powell.

Quote from: Richmond Clements on 02 May, 2011, 05:28:05 PM
I personally think that anyone who delights in the death of another person- any person- is seriously sick in the fucking head.

Yeah- it does seem a little bit... well... weird, doesn't it?!?

Quote from: Matt Timson on 02 May, 2011, 06:44:54 PM

Quote from: Richmond Clements on 02 May, 2011, 05:28:05 PM
I personally think that anyone who delights in the death of another person- any person- is seriously sick in the fucking head.

Yeah- it does seem a little bit... well... weird, doesn't it?!?

Except when they're made with sticks of graphite.

Surreal

Ever the student idealist, eh richmond? Never mind, you go on wringing your hands while i, and the rest of everyone who lives in the real world, will continue to be very pleased that a Very Bad Man has been killed. Perhaps you could tell all those people celebrating, including Obama, and the relatives of those he murdered, that they are 'sick in the fucking head'. And stop being so patronising while youre about it, you chump.
SBT

They killed Bin Laden ten years ago.

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 02 May, 2011, 06:55:57 PM
Ever the student idealist, eh richmond? Never mind, you go on wringing your hands while i, and the rest of everyone who lives in the real world, will continue to be very pleased that a Very Bad Man has been killed. Perhaps you could tell all those people celebrating, including Obama, and the relatives of those he murdered, that they are 'sick in the fucking head'. And stop being so patronising while youre about it, you chump.
SBT

Here's an idea- go fuck yourself.

That patronising enough for you- you chump.

If anyone here hasn't seen the Adam Curtis documentary 'The Power of Nightmares' now would be a good time to do so. It shows what a joke the 'War on Terror' really is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares)

I really hope there isn't a Bin Laden-themed episode of Doctor Who coming up, or this board might spontaneously combust.

Just saw this on FB:

'Well I just spent a month with Malachai writing "Axe Cop VS. Al Qaeda" for nothing!!'

This is no different to any other situation where an uneducated mass of people who are fed propaganda during wartime and celebrating a defeat of their enemy which by default involves killing/murdering/call it what you like.

The fact this announcement is being celebrated means that further overseas wars and occupations/"Humanitarian" missions will be supported particularly as there is more on the menu in North Africa and the Middle East and elsewhere.Wether or not the celebrating is distasteful or justified its only a superficial celebration as all there is to celebrate is more of what we have had for the last 10 years so there is really nothing to celebrate in the long term.

The announcement and media spectacle is pure Jingoism and it will exasapate the situation regarding Muslim Extremism so it was highly irresponsible/stupid if taken at face value but i dont take things at face value very much.

Obama will very shortly announce that Emmanuel Goldstein has been killed by SpecOps in a dawn raid.

Has anyone else noticed that the scene of the alleged incident [Abbotabad] is 800miles + from the nearest coast and at the same time we are told that Bin Laden was buried at sea yet we are told by official  sources that the body was moved to Afghanistan/Baghram Air base 230 miles away where it was subjected to various formalities[DNA testing usually takes weeks/months but Baghram air base must have been equipped with the facilities to conduct thorough and extensive DNA testing in an hour or two] and then flown a minimum of 800 miles to the coast[an undisclosed location as no details on this have been provided from official sources] where it was presumably loaded onto a ship out at sea and all within 12 hrs of the alleged assault happening.That is remarkable in itself :-\

Glad the nasty man is dead = understandable.

Celebrating nasty man being dead and making "woop, woop" noises etc; = not understandable.

There's nothing to celebrate. Everyone who was dead before is still dead and things are still as dangerous as they were before, if not more so.

Clever, richmond, so very clever. I prostrate myself before the world's greatest living wordsmith.

You cant see it, but im flicking v's at you.

SBT

Quote from: Steve Green on 02 May, 2011, 07:28:19 PM
I really hope there isn't a Bin Laden-themed episode of Doctor Who coming up, or this board might spontaneously combust.

I imagine this morning, as Frank Miller was just putting the finishing touches to his latest Batman masterpiece, the final panel as the Dark Knight twists Osama's spine [snaps] 'whatever life is in him flutters away' or some shite like that.

Frank hears the latest on Fox News, slowly rolls up the entire novel and smokes it until his black-ink lungs explode. Damn deadlines.

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 02 May, 2011, 07:38:14 PM

I imagine this morning, as Goddamn Frank Miller was just putting the finishing touches to his latest  Goddamn Batman masterpiece, the final panel as the  GoddamnDark Knight twists Osama's Goddamn spine [snaps] 'whatever goddamn life is in him flutters away' or some shite like that.

Goddamn Frank hears the latest on Goddamn Fox News, slowly rolls up the entire goddamn novel and smokes it until his goddamn black-ink lungs explode.

Fixed that for you ;)

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 02 May, 2011, 06:46:29 PM

Quote from: Matt Timson on 02 May, 2011, 06:44:54 PM

Quote from: Richmond Clements on 02 May, 2011, 05:28:05 PM
I personally think that anyone who delights in the death of another person- any person- is seriously sick in the fucking head.

Yeah- it does seem a little bit... well... weird, doesn't it?!?

Except when they're made with sticks of graphite.

I work digitally. And it's not real.

Quote from: Matt Timson on 02 May, 2011, 07:58:22 PMI work digitally. And it's not real.

Don't fool yourself, I've seen Tron.

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 02 May, 2011, 07:35:35 PM
Clever, richmond, so very clever. I prostrate myself before the world's greatest living wordsmith.

You cant see it, but im flicking v's at you.

SBT

You're most kind, but really- it wasn't that clever. In fact, it's what I would have said to your- or anyone else's- face.

I find that highly unlikely. All mouth and no trousers, as my dear old mum used to say. And still does, funnily enough.
Anyway, enough. I dont like you, you dont like me. Lets get married.
SBT

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 02 May, 2011, 08:42:35 PM
I find that highly unlikely.

Really? Try me.
Or just ask anyone who know me if they think I speak my mind.

Saying 'a very bad man has been killed by the very nice goodies' is about as simplistic and juvenile a view as it is possible to take in my opinion. What about all the hundreds of innocent people killed in Iraq and Afghanistan by the Americans? Can they just go get fucked because they don't watch the same TV programs as us?

Bin Laden isn't Darth frigging Vader, he doesn't control the terrorists of the world. How much direct influence do you think he had over the 7/7 bombers for instance? They were from Leeds for god's sake!

I'm not saying I sympathise with him or any other 'terrorist', or indeed anyone who would stoop to those cowardly tactics but it's not as black and white as goodies and baddies is it?

These people are KILLING THEMSELVES in protest at the actions of Western governments. They're not doing that lightly I wouldn't have thought.

PS. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, just a realist. All governments are cunts.

'Go on, try me'? You'll be telling me i smell next, and trying to steal my crisps! :D

SBT

...says the bloke who was flicking the Vs.

...which was kind of a response to the tone of the insult, to be honest!

SBT 

QuoteSaying 'a very bad man has been killed by the very nice goodies' is about as simplistic and juvenile a view as it is possible to take in my opinion.

Careful now, Lee.
You're be getting labeled as a hand wringing student idealist (whatever the fuck that is... I'm 41 after all).

Quote from: pauljholden on 02 May, 2011, 05:32:51 PM
Man, if the first Dredd picture practically caused multiple flame wars, I'm giving THIS thread a WIDE berth ...

-pj

Seconded.

No one is saying anything about where he was killed, he was in a compound two hours outside the Pakistani capital city Islamabad, not near the remote border areas where we were told for the last few years.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden_the_raid

I was watching Euronews and one New York citizen said something like "it's made everything worth it...Afghanistan, Iraq, we can bring our troops home now..." How many American citizens still believe Osama/Al-Qaeda were linked to Saddam Hussein and his regime and how is Osama's death will help in ending  the current conflict in Afghanistan?

The way I see it, he signed his own death warrant. I wouldn't say I'm pleased by his death, but I wouldn't say that I mourned the loss of that man's life. I knew it was going to happen sooner or later, hell, for all I knew it had already happened. Bin Laden wasn't going to be allowed to live.

Here's what bothers me about the whole sorry affair. What are the media going to do now that they don't have a posterboy for evil?

What makes them think the troops will come home? They will remain in the Middle-East until they are completely broke, fiscally and mentally, there is no 'rational' mind behind this.

Quote from: pops1983 on 02 May, 2011, 09:12:37 PMHere's what bothers me about the whole sorry affair. What are the media going to do now that they don't have a posterboy for evil?

According to the Rand Corp. bogeyman list, after terrorism it's alien invasion as the next threat. Must've been reading Watchmen again.

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 02 May, 2011, 05:16:50 PM
I don't see any 'winners' when we consider how murky the history of all this is, even going back to BIn Laden, Mujahadeen/'Al-Qaeda' funding and training in Afghanistan by the US and Saudi starting in 1979

Due to his experience in the field, I really have to side with the BBC's John Simpson, who states that the CIA never aided Bin Laden or helped set up Al-Qaeda as an organisation.

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 02 May, 2011, 08:58:56 PM
...which was kind of a response to the tone of the insult, to be honest!

SBT

"He started it"

:lol:

Obama is Osama

No.

I would like to advise people if anything was aimed my way I in no way cheered at the death of this man, i'm just glad a lot of people have gotten closure from this.
America is in no way "The Good Guys" i know the world isn't that simple however i think in this situation almost anyone should be happy he's gone.  You never know we might be all suprised and peace will follow into the most conflicted region on earth (look at that optimism from the most pessimistic person on the planet(well acording to my friends)).

kind of sorry for starting this thread now but I should've realised not everyone here would be on the same page about it.

CU Radbacker 

Quote from: Radbacker on 03 May, 2011, 07:07:57 AMYou never know we might be all suprised and peace will follow into the most conflicted region on earth (look at that optimism from the most pessimistic person on the planet(well acording to my friends)).

I wish I shared your optimism but the 'West' didn't venture into the Mid-East to get Bin Laden. He was irrelevant as soon as he attacked the US. I would wish that the sheer pointlessness wins over but...

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."

Martin Luther King, Jr.

Further to my previous post: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/05/out-of-osamas-death-a-fake-quotation-is-born/238220/

The internet is a strange place...

Or partially fake.

http://ehaugsjaa.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/snopes-you-are-too-slow-for-internet-speed/ (http://ehaugsjaa.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/snopes-you-are-too-slow-for-internet-speed/)

It's started:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13268834 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13268834)

Quote from: LARF on 03 May, 2011, 12:16:38 PM
It's started:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13268834 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13268834)

Considering it wasn't too long ago that the police were shooting the innocent down the tubes this could just be another over reaction... they could have just been out for a nice walk... lets just wait and see how this pans out before shouting terrorist nuclear attack.

Ahh, a calm, rational response


Get him! Break his legs!

Agreed.  What this thread needs is more racism, uninformed political debate, and some middle class uni grads telling us why their education nullifies someone's personal opinions - at the very least someone could storm off the forum vowing never to return.  It's getting so I hardly recognize this place anymore.

Quote from: Lee Bates on 02 May, 2011, 08:52:37 PM
Bin Laden isn't Darth frigging Vader, he doesn't control the terrorists of the world. How much direct influence do you think he had over the 7/7 bombers for instance? They were from Leeds for god's sake!

The tendrils of Al Qaeda spread far and wide, and there is plenty of adventure holiday time in Pakistan. Do I have to start raking up news clips/bulletins?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8489190/Osama-bin-Laden-death-77-bomber-visited-bin-Laden-city.html



V

Quote from: Lee Bates on 02 May, 2011, 08:52:37 PM
Bin Laden isn't Darth frigging Vader, he doesn't control the terrorists of the world.

I hope you're not suggesting Darth Vader ever controlled terrorists.  He was a loyal servant of the constitutionally-established First Galactic Empire, and anyway, Tarkin was holding his leash most of the time, to judge by the foul stench. 

Indeed, I believe what he meant to say was he isn't Admiral frigging Ackbar (whose name even sounds vaguely arabic)

Ahhhh. Admiral frigging Akbar. The terrorist responsible for countless Imperial lives.





V

He didn't get where he is by not spotting a trap when he saw one.

Quote from: Steve Green on 03 May, 2011, 10:04:51 PM
He didn't get where he is by not spotting a trap when he saw one.

But how many Bothans died to keep him there?

Ackbar takes all the credit. It was Calrissian that spotted the trap. And he wanted to cut and run, fucking coward.






V

Lay off the Admiral man - his can't delicate sensibilities can't repel criticism of that magnitude.

In taking away Bin Laden, the US has rendered Al Quaeda even more formless. A truly faceless enemy lurking in every shadow, led by unknown generals.

Next will come a reprisal attack, Operation Blackjack or a modern version of Gladio.

The attacks will be used to strip away more of our freedoms and safeguards.

This is how democracy dies - to thunderous applause.

I'm with Rich - you can't defeat terror with terror. That's like fighting fire with fire, and any fireman will tell you that it's much better to use water. We can't fight our way out of this mess we've gotten ourselves into, we have to understand our way out of it. We have to look to the better angels of our nature, the humanitarian side of our humanity. Bin Laden, just like Barak Obama, is irrelevant. It's our world and its our problem. We're all responsible for the bloodshed. All of us.

You can fight fire with fire, I think it's called a fire break, or some other term.
In the case of say a bush fire the fire bods get ahead of the fire and burn it's fuel  ;)

Stop ruining my metaphors with your factual content!

Oops  :-X

Rock On







V

Maybe I should've said that you can't fight fire with fire except in certain circumstances when you can. Or maybe I should just keep my stupid gob shut :D

Well according to a popular game, you can defeat rocks with paper. Now I've seen riots, and the cops don't wear paper hats.

Watch your back Lars -- you're next.

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 03 May, 2011, 11:56:53 PM
In taking away Bin Laden, the US has rendered Al Quaeda even more formless. A truly faceless enemy lurking in every shadow, led by unknown generals.

But wait...isn't there another thread in which you post that you believe the US brought down the WTC, not Al Quaeda...?  :D

Something else that I find slightly irksome is the fact that they killed him and then bragged about it.  An American friend of mine said that they (America) had done the deed and would weather any repercussions.  Unfortunately, it's not just America that will weather the repercussions, is it?  It's the West in general.

Still- at least America  got to save face.  So that's ok.

:thumbsup:

Fresh from Twitter:

"A man respectfully marks Osama's passing with dignity, aplomb, a flag, a quad bike, and a big f*** off gun"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxVdU2eVYSg

:lol:

Well I spoof it in SillyWorld!

Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 04 May, 2011, 09:58:37 AM

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 03 May, 2011, 11:56:53 PM
In taking away Bin Laden, the US has rendered Al Quaeda even more formless. A truly faceless enemy lurking in every shadow, led by unknown generals.

But wait...isn't there another thread in which you post that you believe the US brought down the WTC, not Al Quaeda...?  :D

Actually, I don't know who brought down the towers or why - that's my problem with it. Certain facts point to certain interpretations of events that have not, to my mind, been adequately explored. In any event, I don't think it's quite as simple as saying that the US did it.

What I meant by my "faceless enemy" comment was that a faceless enemy is easier to sell to the public in order to generate the fear necessary for those in power with a totalitarian bent to get us begging our governments into taking even more of our liberties away. As has been said before, a viewing of the excellent "The Power of Nightmares", subtitled "The Rise of the Politics of Fear" by Adam Curtis will explain my thinking on this.

The Power of Nightmares is well worth a look.

Regardless of bin Laden's naughtiness (and he was indeed a prick) the brave boys of Seal Team Six, Dicky Marcinko's finest killers, have now shot dead an unarmed 57 year old kidney dialysis patient.
I'm unsure what form of resisting he was engaged in while faced with a team of trained killers armed with the finest American deathware, but it must have been awesome. Maybe he was pretending to be Jean Charles de Menezes when they decided to slot him.

As more details emerge, this gets worse for the US, so they'll need to do some serious PR work. And not a Jessica Lynch style effort, either.

Yeah, 'cos there's no possibility whatsoever of a 57 year old kidney dialysis patient wearing a suicide vest is there?  Website warriors, don't you just luv 'em!!

Quote from: Orlok on 05 May, 2011, 07:25:54 AM
I'm unsure what form of resisting he was engaged in while faced with a team of trained killers armed with the finest American deathware, but it must have been awesome. Maybe he was pretending to be Jean Charles de Menezes when they decided to slot him.

Maybe they should have tickled him instead! ... ::)

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 04 May, 2011, 05:47:57 PM
a faceless enemy is easier to sell to the public in order to generate the fear necessary for those in power with a totalitarian bent to get us begging our governments into taking even more of our liberties away.

I thought the whole point was that a faceless enemy was DIFFICULT to sell, so they had to cast Bin laden in the role of evil mastermind controlling a global web of terror like some Bond villain - in other words, they put a face (bin laden) and a name (Al Quaeda) to a nebulous collection of interlinked groups sharing a common anti-US agenda. Creating clearly identifiable "bad guys" that you can constantly refer to makes it much easier to sell it to the American public, who wouldn't like the message that large parts of the world hate them.

I have always thought that Bin laden's personal importance was exaggerated, as was Al Quaeda as a homogenous organisation. The Sun today is already talking about the "new Bin Laden" and his terror plans - so the message is - don't stop being scared yet!

Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 05 May, 2011, 01:29:04 PM

Quote from: Orlok on 05 May, 2011, 07:25:54 AM
I'm unsure what form of resisting he was engaged in while faced with a team of trained killers armed with the finest American deathware, but it must have been awesome. Maybe he was pretending to be Jean Charles de Menezes when they decided to slot him.

Maybe they should have tickled him instead! ... ::)

Or y'know, arested him and put him on trial. Who knows what maight come to light if they did that though!

Quote from: Dandontdare on 05 May, 2011, 02:05:19 PM
Or y'know, arested him and put him on trial. Who knows what maight come to light if they did that though!

Well, what are you implying? It's tough to respond if I don't know which line of conspiracy theory you're snorting, ha!

But I know, I know. It's America, the big baddies of the world. You Brits just aren't happy that we've replaced you as That Guy  :D.

Quote from: Dandontdare on 05 May, 2011, 02:05:19 PMOr y'know, arested him and put him on trial. Who knows what maight come to light if they did that though!

While I try to maintain respect for human life (if not actual humans), I think his death was probably the least dangerous outcome.

Alive and on the run, he was a symbol to a minority. Dead, he's a martyr to a minority. Alive, imprisoned and facing trial he would probably have become a far larger symbol and something of a martyr, potentially influencing even more people. (Obviously, there is a tradition of dead religious martyrs having an awful lot of influence, but I don't think OBL has anywhere near as good a story as JC.)

I think some innocent people are probably going to die as result of his death, but I wonder if even more innocent people would have died had this gone to a trial? I fear this falls into the category of 'the lesser evil'.


Regards

Robin

QuoteObviously, there is a tradition of dead religious martyrs having an awful lot of influence, but I don't think OBL has anywhere near as good a story as JC.

Yup- he didn't record I Walk the Line for starters.

Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 05 May, 2011, 02:18:01 PM

Quote from: Dandontdare on 05 May, 2011, 02:05:19 PM
Or y'know, arested him and put him on trial. Who knows what maight come to light if they did that though!

Well, what are you implying? It's tough to respond if I don't know which line of conspiracy theory you're snorting, ha!

Nothing in particular, I'm not a conspiracy fan, just that I'm sure they preferred a quick death to a drawn out trial which could mean the subpoening of all kinds of sensitive information and who knows what. Wikiliaks showed us there's vast amounts of information held by the governemnt that they don't want released.

personally, I've got no problem with assassination or summary execution of an evil git like him, but why can't they be honest about it? They're still claiming he wa shot in self-defense because assassination is officially illegal. Just come clean and say we went in and shot him, end of story.

I was 100percent certain that it was all lies right from the outset but now i am 200percent certain that its all lies.

Lies and propaganda and political posturing and opportunism.

Look at how many times the official version of events has changed in the past 3 days.First OBL was armed and firing an automatic firearm at the alleged Seal team so OBL took 2 rounds to the head then OBL offered no resistance and was still shot in the head and then the White House was going to release pictures and now they are not and then there was the staged White house war room pictures of Clinton,Obama,Gates* etc watching the live feed and then it turns out that the live feed was lost for 25 minutes during which OBL was shot and this is after it was claimed that Obama,Clinton,Gates watched the entire thing.

Referring back to the pictures it was first claimed that Obama watched OBL take 1 round to the left eye and then after that the White House claimed that the picture of the dead OBL showed what what sounded like exit wounds to the head [eyes and forehead blasted outwards] of of the dead OBL.

And so on...............................................

A lot of what has now been retracted or altered by the White House was first propagated by John Brennan - White House Anti-Terrorism advisor so they are deliberately lying and spinning thingsso this does not inspire confidence in them or the official version of events in the slightest.

*When i first saw the picture it was obviously staged and i thought it was photoshopped and it turns out the picture was released as a reaction to the sceptics of it all so they are desperate to be believed and that seeing a picture of them tensely watching a screen is supposed to convince you that its all genuine.  :lol:

Now allegedly the Seal team seized the contents of Bin Ladens hard drive plus numerous discs full of information and that this hard drive was the epicentre of alleged Al Quaeda terrorist activity which will provide numerous leads so really this is an opportunity for the US govt to do what they like to stop Al Quaeda which means if they want to send the US miltary into Pakistan they can just claim info on the hard drive points to Al Quaeda activity in Pakistan and likewise if they want to go into the Yemen and likewise if they want to go into Syria and so on.....

There was also the laughable claim that Al Quaeda has hidden 160 nuclear warheads at various undisclosed locations in the US plus another warhead that was allegedly hidden in Europe somewhere which would be detonated if OBL is assassinated or captured according to info courtesy of Weakileaks as it was info that was learnt during interrogations at Guantanemo bay.No reports of any warheads going off in Europe yet...........

So anyway THE most important and valueable intelligence asset against the Al Quaeda War On Terror that has resulted in everything that has gone on in the last 10 years including the creation of a police State was needlessly shot in the head  ::)

But in the meantime the Police State continues and increases in reaction to the alleged death of OBL.If i dint have much patience i would be seriously losing patience with anyone who is incapable of seeing all this for what it really is.

I wish they would stop this silliness as its become ridiculous now.

Well, I heard that the SEAL team was under orders to take him alive but problems arose when they saw he was wearing a British Army uniform. Before they could check who he was, they had shot him dead  :lol:

Mr Burdis, you made me spit tea out of my nose. Stop it this instant, do you hear? :lol:

Oh, and Tankie...

QuoteYeah, 'cos there's no possibility whatsoever of a 57 year old kidney dialysis patient wearing a suicide vest is there?  Website warriors, don't you just luv 'em!!

I took unarmed to mean exactly that. Unless he was wearing an Allah belt all the time (imagine the horror of late night toilet visits :o), he'd have to be quick to put it on in a surprise raid, wouldn't he?
And I'm ex-Navy and served in Gulf War I. You know, the one before the crappy sequel?

Crappy sequel? A bit harsh there Orlok.

I did my stint on GW1 and my humour is quite black but I wouldn't go that far. I know a few recent ex squaddies who have endured the current one and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. It is creating some fucked up puppies out there.





V

The US isn't noted for its accuracy in describing terrorist threats. Remember when Donald Rumsfeld told us all to be very, very afraid because of things like this:



Would look great in an episode of MACH 1, Thunderbirds or James Bond, but in this case it's just pure dark fantasy for the purposes of scaring the general population into terrified submission.

But who was really terrified?

Strongholds like that are very possible in the mountains of Afghanistan; they're riddled with tunnels.

I think many are missing the fact that Bin Laden as he was a few days ago was a man not in control of anything anymore. If he was masterminding nefarious schemes, he would have been hidden in a stronghold of some sort. I think he was "retired" from terrorism and living out his days.

And I just have to comment that Conspiracy Theorists are doing exactly what they accuse the government of doing - trying to scare the populace into becoming government-fearing paranoids, constantly looking over their shoulders for "Big Brother". Very few Conspiracy Theorists have actually done field research, very few are experts in the fields they try to cover. Many are fed misinformation or rely on second-hand information. Seems less reliable than what the government gives us, imo.

Are governments truthful? Nope. Are we ever going to know half the shit that goes on? Nope, and probably we shouldn't.

As far as books go, I'd take "Behold A Pale Horse", and that's about it.

I refuse to fear my government. No population should fear its government - it's the government that should fear the people.

As far as being called a "conspiracy theorist" (whatever that actually means) goes, I really don't mind at all. It's like being called a fool or an idiot; you either let it upset you or you don't, and I don't. Besides, I'd rather be one of those than a Coincidence Theorist (one of those people who thinks that every inconsistency in every event is just a coincidence because it's too horrid to even contemplate the alternatives).

The trick is in knowing what's a coincidence and what isn't. This is a very hard thing to do and nobody, but nobody, can get it right all the time. Not even me :)

(these comments, and my previous comments, aren't directed specifically at you, Shark, unless you'd like them to be, of course  :D)

Every "coincidence" should be taken with an extreme amount of skepticism.

I am an incredible skeptic. I'll believe anything - if it can be proved.

Did the US Government take down the WTC? Not until it can proven without a doubt. Conspiracy Theories - or Conspiracy Accusations - should be a form of science, and backed with factual evidence. There should be actual field work done, scientific analysis by experts. There is too much second-hand information, too much downright unreliable information and, to be frank, too much opinion masquerading as fact baked into the Conspiracy or Coincidence cookie for my liking.

This way of thinking is fear-mongering. Maybe you don't personally do that, but others do. If everyone went around thinking that their country brought down skyscrapers full of citizens, as Conspira...Coincidence Theorists would like them too, how would a State not be full of paranoids? But if it's true - and it can be proven - proven without a doubt, sure, then put it out there. But until it's proven, let's keep on researching it rather than throwing speculation on the internet for others to half-read and regurgitate as fact. Misinformation is far worse than no information.

Should a Government be honest to its people? NO. No, no, no. For many reasons, security being number one...sure you might want to know all the goings on, but really, a sensible person realizes that there's no way that can happen.

It was a kill op. They went in with the intention to kill. A woman used herself as a shield. Another deluded follower giving their life for the meat-hook.

The objective was to kill the man. The SAS officer, stood there and told me.If he's got the idea of it , then its good enough for me.

I accidentally came up with a conspiracy theory about this at work today.

Remember a couple of years ago when nobody had heard anything from Osama for a while and folk started saying maybe he was dead as surely he'd be up to something? Now the Yanks claim to have killed him right next door to a Pakistani military base but have conveniently disposed of the body.

Well, how about he actually has been dead for years. The villa was either set up with the assistance of the Pakistani military or really was occupied by some other shady dudes. Seal team go in blasting, inadvertently kill the target and the body is conveniently disposed off. Obama announces the good news to the world and the remaining al Qaeda chappies can't really say "Liars. He's over here." on account of he isn't. Double bluff. Everyone's a winner. Especially the guys who're getting double time and a day in lieu for carrying out a mission on a bank holiday.

Wikipedia now says he's dead, so it must be true

He's definitely dead - do you really think the Americans would run the risk of having him turn up in 6 month's with that day's paper and giving them the finger?

The idea that you wouldn't take the chance to shoot the leader of your mortal enemy in a narrow window of opportunity just because he is unarmed is laughable - it's a war and not one that Osama was shy about pursuing.

Can you imagine the nightmare if they took him alive? How many hijacks and murders before he got near the courthouse?

A high moral stance is all very well but when the chips are down sometimes you have fight as dirty as your opponent.

No probs, Locusts!

Here's something from November 1st, 2001:

"Bin Laden has often been reported to be in poor health. Some accounts claim that he is suffering from Hepatitis C, and can expect to live for only two more years.

"According to Le Figaro, last year he ordered a mobile dialysis machine to be delivered to his base at Kandahar in Afghanistan."

Taken from http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism)

I reckon he's been dead for years. That said, I can't prove it - just like the U.S. can't seem to prove that they've only just killed him.

Quote from: Buttonman on 05 May, 2011, 10:30:28 PMCan you imagine the nightmare if they took him alive? How many hijacks and murders before he got near the courthouse

Aside from the scant evidence it's actually him for which I'll take their word.

I don't think that was the reason they killed him straight out. He has a murky history the US doesn't want the world to see emblazoned across the papers. His days in Afghanistan, his ability to run around the Middle-East without investigation for years, Greg Palast's BBC Newsnight investigation showing the Bush family quashed any investigations into Osama's movements before 9/11 plus the fact the evidence linking him personally to 9/11 is quite scant, the US couldn't provide much to the Taliban when they requested it.

He was a freaky isolated Muslim religious zealot, without much public support, who was the PR man for about a hundred Afghani/Saudi guys at the time of 9/11, operationally he didn't get his hands too dirty. Giving him a trial could dangerously reveal how much he was hyped as the bogeyman. In the end the US Military finally put the lights out on their Osama PR machine and probably reaping the benefits of an increased military budget amidst all the public fiscal cuts. It's all about timing and usefulness.

Quote from: Buttonman on 05 May, 2011, 10:30:28 PMA high moral stance is all very well but when the chips are down sometimes you have fight as dirty as your opponent.

In perspective though, as a threat -as Robert Fisk the only western journalist to interview him has said- he was more or less irrelevant. Dead or alive he's still the same phantom he was portrayed to be.

Quote from: Buttonman on 05 May, 2011, 10:30:28 PM



Can you imagine the nightmare if they took him alive? How many hijacks and murders before he got near the courthouse?

They could have captured OBL alive and kept it quiet instead of announcing it and that way there wouldnt have been any repercussions and if Pakistani intelligence were unaware of his presence and his neighbours were also unaware of his presence then it would have been very easy to leave with the package alive rather than dead and if the incident was reported then it would have been passed off as yet another US military operation inside Pakistan.

Its unlikely that he would have been subject to a courtroom as instead he would have disappeared into the secret prison network in the custody if the CIA.


Anwar Awl Alaki is the new Osama Bin Laden.

[I know someone who has met the Bin Laden family and Osama Bin Laden and it wasnt someone i was talking to in a pub as i know this individuals background but this was before Bin Laden was into terrorism]

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 05 May, 2011, 10:54:44 PM
No probs, Locusts!

Here's something from November 1st, 2001:

"Bin Laden has often been reported to be in poor health. Some accounts claim that he is suffering from Hepatitis C, and can expect to live for only two more years.

"According to Le Figaro, last year he ordered a mobile dialysis machine to be delivered to his base at Kandahar in Afghanistan."

Taken from http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism)

These "accounts" and "claims" are said to come from anonymous sources within the French intelligence services. Why is it that people refuse to believe anything the government or security services say openly, but if they choose to leak it, it suddenly gets cited as compelling evidence?

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 05 May, 2011, 10:54:44 PM
No probs, Locusts!

Here's something from November 1st, 2001:

"Bin Laden has often been reported to be in poor health. Some accounts claim that he is suffering from Hepatitis C, and can expect to live for only two more years.

"According to Le Figaro, last year he ordered a mobile dialysis machine to be delivered to his base at Kandahar in Afghanistan."

Taken from http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism)

I reckon he's been dead for years. That said, I can't prove it - just like the U.S. can't seem to prove that they've only just killed him.

One often hears entirely similar riders (reported to be, some sources claim, according to whoever, etc.) on the BBC. Cock an ear and see how many times these things crop up in "real" news. I don't say you should believe nothing the government or media (or anyone else for that matter) tells you, but nor should you believe everything they tell you, either. One lie doesn't make a conspiracy and one truth doesn't disprove a conspiracy. (In fact, I'd wager that most apparent conspiracies merely arise from people in power dropping the ball and then scrambling to cover it up without anyone noticing.)

It's always better to keep an open mind - but if you do, remember one thing: An open mind is like an open wound, if you don't look after it, it'll get infected. I think mine rotted away yonks ago...

Mr Vzzbux...

QuoteCrappy sequel? A bit harsh there Orlok.

No offence intended there, mate. It's just IMHO. I see it as the sequel nobody wanted or will look fondly upon in the years to come.
Think Matrix Reloaded except with Jessica Lynch and Abu Ghraib.   >:(

Have a couple of mates who have been in both (and one family member who has come home from Iraq) and they couldn't wait til get out of this one. Maybe it is the years, we were all pretty much kids in the first one and apart from Saddam sending up his Scuds every night we were pretty much safe and weren't really coming home to the uncertainty of terror alerts and questions of legality.

That said, can I point out for the record that I read with some interest that they know it is Osama as his dead sister's brain said so via non-independently analysed DNA...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/8488004/Osama-Bin-Ladens-body-identified-by-sisters-brain.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/8488004/Osama-Bin-Ladens-body-identified-by-sisters-brain.html)

There, that is settled.

Either that or Ashton Kutcher has fucking outdone himself with this episode of Punk'd.

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 06 May, 2011, 12:26:53 AM
An open mind is like an open wound, if you don't look after it, it'll get infected.

I like this! ^

No prob's Orlok it just stuck a chord thats all.






V

Osama home movies, he spent 5 years in that little terrorist timeshare.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/part-osama-bin-ladens-home-videos-13552680?tab=9482931&section=1206828


http://abcnews.go.com/politics/video/part-osama-bin-ladens-home-videos-13552649&tab=9482931&section=1206828


The Yanks killed the audio on all 5 movies, they say they don't want people to hear anymore of his propaganda, bollocks, stop treating us like children or are they afraid of what he's saying?

Mr Bin Laden always denied involvement with 9/11 - so maybe that's why they killed the audio. Having your evil-doer actually denouncing evil doings is not really beneficial to wanting him dead.

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 07 May, 2011, 09:54:16 PM
Osama home movies, he spent 5 years in that little terrorist timeshare.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/part-osama-bin-ladens-home-videos-13552680?tab=9482931&section=1206828


http://abcnews.go.com/politics/video/part-osama-bin-ladens-home-videos-13552649&tab=9482931&section=1206828


The Yanks killed the audio on all 5 movies, they say they don't want people to hear anymore of his propaganda, bollocks, stop treating us like children or are they afraid of what he's saying?

It looks pretty poor quality - it probably just has a really bad audio hum all the way through that gives you a headache.
A bit like 'Brother From Another Planet'.

Quote from: JamesC on 07 May, 2011, 10:12:30 PM
It looks pretty poor quality - it probably just has a really bad audio hum all the way through that gives you a headache.
A bit like 'Brother From Another Planet'.

What? this is actually pretty good picture quality, first generation copies -better than all other released Bin Laden videos which were perfectly audible- and on recent equipment. I'd say the audio is fine, they just don't want us hearing it. If it was bad audio, what didfference would it make that we hear it?, they cut the audio for whatever reason.

Sorry, I was just being facetious.
I'm sure the audio's fine. I've no idea why the Americans muted it - maybe they just don't endorse spreading Osama's message - even if it damages their journalistic integrity?

At the risk of conspiracy theorist ridicule, I just saw Jake Gyllenhaal CGI'd to fuck in Source Code, so couldn't they have pulled something simililar with beardy?
Or it could be as previously stated that the audio is of him denying all involvement in 9/11 and sayng his mate George set him up. :o

I'm still smelling a rat with this seized laptop terror threat stuff. Dunno why.

That said I eagerly await the dvd release of Osama's Funniest Home Videos...

The video of what is purported to be OBL channel surfing looks entirely suspect.

Its interesting that what was on multiple channels was what looked to propaganda vidoes and stills which look to me like they were assembled for the purposes of the video [otherwise all the channels just showed propaganda pictures all the time or just at that exact time which was convenient] and notice that one of the channels showed an image of Obama which was to deliberately place the video in the present context.It definately looked to be what was a menu for cable/satellite TV that listed "Al-Jazeer" amongst other channels.

It needs to be verified who was providing the TV stations and the menu matched to an existing menu and how it was received by either cable or satellite as there is no satellite dish visible on the outside of the building.Also its unlikely to be cable because its not a built up area but perhaps others who live in Abbotabad can verify this.



The individual in the video was clearly not OBL but looked more like a mental patient sitting on the floor and rocking backwards and forwards.How convenient that the camera was to one side of whoever this was in the video.Also it looks like the cables coming out of the TV and computers have been recently unfolded which would mean that they were set up very recently.

How does this video prove anything when those who present are asking you to accept it at face value and accept what you are told ?


It looks more like Fidel Castro than OBL.

"Evidence at Bin Ladens home raises nuclear questions" :

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/5/evidence-at-bin-ladens-home-raises-nuclear-concern/?page=all#pagebreak

While everyone picks apart the evidence presented in this video and distracted by the whole death of OBL thing the US is building a case for some kind of confrontation with or destabilisation of Pakistan because that looks like where its heading which would explain the OBL incident providing the pretext for it.If this happens it will involve China as China have a naval base in Pakistan.

Have any papers used the You've Bin Framed headline yet?

Religion gets a lot of stick for the bad stuff it causes, and rightly so.

Sadly, it really doesn't get enough credit for the good it can do, either. The modern perception is that religion is either infested with paedophiles or a training ground for terrorists. More and more, religion is seen as evil. Like most things, I think, the truth isn't so simple.

Here's a (presumably, or this whole rant will be  for nought) religious mass for the most hated man since Hitler. There are those people in religions, most likely the silent majority (humble majority?) who really believe what Jesus or Mohammed (PBUH) said about peace and love and trying to get along with one another. Yes, we might hate and mistrust each other, we might be trying to blow each other to bits - but we're all God's Children and, no matter what we think of each other, at least He loves us all. So they're trying to be good souls, good  humans, by saying a Mass for a man most people would rather spit at. I find that incredibly uplifting.

Now, I'm not religious by any stretch of the imagination. I do, however, have Faith in some kind of Higher Power, though I have no idea what it is. If I have a belief system it's simply that we should really be figuring all this spiritual stuff out. Exploring it, finding out about ourselves, our souls (if we have them), our place in the Cosmos. From my perspective all this war and corporatism is distracting us; holding us up from getting on with something important. It's something we should all be working on, and from that perspective I'd also say a little prayer for Bin Laden, because it forces me to remember that he was just a human being, with all the frailties, faults, hopes, dreams, fears, loves and hates as the rest of us. In order for us to be getting on with it we need to stop all this stupid scrapping, and the first step is to recognise that we're all the same. All in this together. We're going to have to work together to get ourselves out of this mess. I have no idea how, but we gotta' do it.

So yeah, say a little prayer for Bin Laden because he was, when all said and done, one of us. It's Humanity v Eternity, and every time we lose a player it weakens our team.

Unless, of course, the priest taking the Mass sees it as an excuse for explaining how Bin Laden's going to be roasting in Hell and jolly good thing too - in which case I may as well just throw up my hands and join the Dark Side. If there's a nuke going to be dropped, you may as well be riding it like Slim than under it like EM1.

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 08 May, 2011, 08:25:43 PMUnless, of course, the priest taking the Mass sees it as an excuse for explaining how Bin Laden's going to be roasting in Hell and jolly good thing too - in which case I may as well just throw up my hands and join the Dark Side.

That's the 'beauty' of masses - whoever pays the piper calls the tune.  Somebody stumped up the dosh - sorry, I mean "voluntary offering" - for Osama, he gets his mass, same as the next stiff. God is very receptive to this handy source of income, and unlikely to turn away a sinner.   I'm sure there's something life-affirming about that... ummm...

That does it.

First thing tomorrow I'm off down the cloak shop to get a black cowl.

When Saddam Hussein was hanged a priest in Donegal ruffled a few feathers when he included him in the bit where they pray for the recently deceased

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Pray+for+Saddam%3B+PARISH+PRIEST+TELLS+STUNNED+MASS-GOERS%3A.-a0158129259

Quote from: johnnystress on 08 May, 2011, 09:03:32 PM
When Saddam Hussein was hanged a priest in Donegal ruffled a few feathers when he included him in the bit where they pray for the recently deceased

Yeah, you can see why people who FOLLOW JESUS might be a bit shocked by compassion for a sinner, and concern for his immortal soul.  Their saviour would never have been caught doing something like that. 

Good on you, Sharkey, say your little prayer, but you'll have to throw your hands up in the air with me, because I won't be praying for him, I'm glad he's dead.  The same way I'm glad Hitler's dead, same way I'm glad Heinrich Himmler's dead, same way I'm glad Stalin's dead, same way I'm glad Ted Bundy's dead, same way I'm glad Myra Hindley's dead, same way I'm glad Fred West is dead, same way I'm glad Harold Shipman's dead, because now they're dead they can't hurt anybody else.  And if that makes me a worse human being than you, so be it.

Quote from: TordelBack on 08 May, 2011, 09:06:38 PM

Quote from: johnnystress on 08 May, 2011, 09:03:32 PM
When Saddam Hussein was hanged a priest in Donegal ruffled a few feathers when he included him in the bit where they pray for the recently deceased

Yeah, you can see why people who FOLLOW JESUS might be a bit shocked by compassion for a sinner, and concern for his immortal soul.  Their saviour would never have been caught doing something like that. 

I keep looking for the 'like' button

Ah Jeez, Tankie - I'm sorry. I really didn't intend to imply that I'm some kind of saint or something. I'm no better than anyone else and probably worse than most. I'm just a normal, confused bloke, that's all.

I'm not saying anything that countless far more learned and holy people haven't said before, and if nobody listened to them it's a dead cert that nobody's going to listen to me, either. It's all just guff. At the end of the day, I can't bring peace to the world. All I can do is strive to bring peace to my own, personal world. That's all the power I have and all the power I need. Sometimes I'll get it right and sometimes I'll get it wrong.

I guess that's how pretty much all of us are doing it; trying to bring peace (or something) to our own personal worlds using our preferred methods. Everybody sees it different, I get that. I hope you'll understand and forgive my arrogance, Tanky, when I say that I was just airing my own personal view of the world and that I in no way think that the way I see it is the Only Way to see it.

If I thought like that I'd write a Little Red Book or Sharkist Manifesto or something, and I really can't be arsed with it. That kind of thing is just asking for trouble.

Quote from: Peter Wolf on 08 May, 2011, 02:49:03 PMThe individual in the video was clearly not OBL but looked more like a mental patient sitting on the floor and rocking backwards and forwards.How convenient that the camera was to one side of whoever this was in the video.Also it looks like the cables coming out of the TV and computers have been recently unfolded which would mean that they were set up very recently.

Well to me it looks like an older OBL especiallly one who's led a recalcitrant, channel hopping sendentary lifestyle the past few years, and really, what true reference do we have to question whether it's 'clearly' him or not- it's clearly no one we really know. We don't know him personally or seen much of how he looks in different lighting and angles. You're questioning things that are rather obtuse and  of no real weight when the bigger elephant in the room is why they won't let us hear what he's saying? If they were going to fake it they'd have done it better or not at all.

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 08 May, 2011, 08:25:43 PMSo yeah, say a little prayer for Bin Laden because he was, when all said and done, one of us. It's Humanity v Eternity, and every time we lose a player it weakens our team.

Fair enough but were you saying prayers for every other casualty in the last decade of war? Focusing on this certain individual with such a sentiment clearly shows the priority this person takes in daily conversation -via the media info-laundry- when he reallly has nothing much to do with the lives of most of us. Propaganda wants this reflexive emotion from us, emotion without consideration or thought for a hyped figure, to see him either as a villian or to pity the fool. Best to ignore it. The bigger picture is millions died for this Obama news moment.

Hi Sharkey.  I don't think you're arrogant at all.  You always raise good points on the forum, it's just that I don't always agree with them!!  Of course, that's all part of the fun!  There'd be no point to all these discussions if we agreed all the time!
Cheers,
Mike

Cheers, Tanky :) Glad we're still good.

And you're absolutely right, Joe. Mourn one, mourn all. That's kinda' what I meant with the football analogy. Inevitably, though, every now and again an individual becomes the focus. If the focus exists, it may as well be used to make a point about the wider issues. I guess it's a very mercenary thing of me to do in that regard - but if it offers one person the opening insight into a deeper understanding of their own world view, I reckon it's worth it. It's still just guff, though :D

Quote from: Old Tankie on 08 May, 2011, 10:07:35 PM
There'd be no point to all these discussions if we agreed all the time!

Yes there would :-P

Quote from: pops1983 on 08 May, 2011, 10:25:58 PM

Quote from: Old Tankie on 08 May, 2011, 10:07:35 PM
There'd be no point to all these discussions if we agreed all the time!

Yes there would :-P

UK V's US English:

Even though we both speak the same language, it's amazing how there are some subtle differences between American-English and proper English:

They say "sidewalk" we say "pavement"
They say "pants" we say "trousers"
They say "buried at sea" we say "naked and chained to a metal bed frame with a car battery connected to his bollocks whilst being beaten for answers".

I see the Sun newspaper are denouncing religious people who are saying prayers for Bin Laden's soul. Apparently forgiveness for "someone like him" is not what Christ had in mind. Wish I had their hotline direct to Heaven . . .

The death of OBL event seems to be fizzling out and losing momentum.in a few days the Fast Food/short term memory loss/Attention Deficit Disorder mainstream media will have moved onto something else and it will go down the memory hole.This may have a lot to do with the fact that there were so many sceptics/doubters of it who obviously detracted from the intended effect/impact of the announcement and the US govts own handling of it which has backfired on them as they now have even less credibility than they did before.The only impact on people it seemed to have was a load of Morons chanting "USA !! USA !! USA !!" on the White House lawn.

Quote from: strontium_dog_90 on 10 May, 2011, 07:16:12 PM
I see the Sun newspaper are denouncing religious people who are saying prayers for Bin Laden's soul. Apparently forgiveness for "someone like him" is not what Christ had in mind. Wish I had their hotline direct to Heaven . . .

The Sun are ALWAYS right in their own warped version of reality and beliefs.  :sick:

I find it amazing, though . . .if I was a really religious person, I'd be up in arms about them making a claim like that. Yet no one seems to be saying a thing.

A statement form OBL's family

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/world/asia/binladen-statement.html?_r=2

Hmmm, odd use of English - could such a rich and important family with long standing global connections not afford a proper English proofreader?

Obi Wan is dead too. A great article with some top comments...

http://www.galacticempiretimes.com/2011/05/09/galaxy/outer-rim/obi-wan-kenobi-is-killed.html (http://www.galacticempiretimes.com/2011/05/09/galaxy/outer-rim/obi-wan-kenobi-is-killed.html)

Quote from: Pete Wells on 12 May, 2011, 07:18:22 AM
Obi Wan is dead too. A great article with some top comments...

http://www.galacticempiretimes.com/2011/05/09/galaxy/outer-rim/obi-wan-kenobi-is-killed.html (http://www.galacticempiretimes.com/2011/05/09/galaxy/outer-rim/obi-wan-kenobi-is-killed.html)

Brilliant.  22 pages of clever comments, not something I ever thought I'd see on t'internet.

QuoteBTW, we should have just made a big supernova out of the entire outer rim in the first place. Tatooine would have looked better as a big glass ball.

Quote from: Pete Wells on 12 May, 2011, 07:18:22 AM
Obi Wan is dead too. A great article with some top comments...

http://www.galacticempiretimes.com/2011/05/09/galaxy/outer-rim/obi-wan-kenobi-is-killed.html (http://www.galacticempiretimes.com/2011/05/09/galaxy/outer-rim/obi-wan-kenobi-is-killed.html)

That is one of the cleverest things I have read in a long time... a long time.

Fantastic, the comments are nearly better then the article.

Quote from: Richmond Clements on 12 May, 2011, 09:46:59 AM

That is one of the cleverest things I have read in a long time... a long time.

...ago in a galaxy far away?

M.

Quote from: Mikey on 12 May, 2011, 10:12:45 AM

Quote from: Richmond Clements on 12 May, 2011, 09:46:59 AM

That is one of the cleverest things I have read in a long time... a long time.

...ago in a galaxy far away?

M.

Get out.

I regret nothing!

This is extraordinary!

That is genius!

Bin Laden's porn stash has been found:

www.vancouversun.com/news/Porn+found+Laden+hideout+officials/4779597/story.html

Quote from: Emperor on 13 May, 2011, 09:46:39 PM
Bin Laden's porn stash has been found:

www.vancouversun.com/news/Porn+found+Laden+hideout+officials/4779597/story.html

Yes of course they did. ;)

Dirty old man.

Its possible that this announcement was meant to offend hardline Muslims as traditionally they are against Pornography.Imagine all the fundamentalist Muslims reaction when they found out that OBL secretly was into Pornography  :o :o

Watch this space for more announcements of the contents of the 1 million pages in OBLs hard drives and discs and USB sticks !

They also found he'd downloaded the complete 2000AD prog torrent. Another reason for the Yanks not to take to Dredd too well.

http://www.galacticempiretimes.com/2011/05/09/galaxy/outer-rim/obi-wan-kenobi-is-killed.html

Congress To Vote On Declaration of Worldwide Perpetual War With No Borders And No Clear Enemy anytime anywhere with anyone the US Govt and the Council Of Foreign Relations etc etc see fit with no debate.

Its very likely this bill will be passed.

http://theintelhub.com/2011/05/15/congress-to-vote-on-declaration-of-worldwide-perpetual-war-with-no-borders-no-clear-enemies/ (http://theintelhub.com/2011/05/15/congress-to-vote-on-declaration-of-worldwide-perpetual-war-with-no-borders-no-clear-enemies/)

I have a feeling that this piece of legislation was already prepared and introducing it after the alleged death of OBL was politically expedient.Add the alleged contents of the OBLhard drives etc and you have an accident waiting to happen..........