Herself got me the Alien Anthology on bluray today. Late birthday prezzie.. I think it'll take me a month to get through all of it.
Anyone else here got it?
Best of it is Alien3 "Assembly Cut" which was brilliant better than Cinematic version!
Personally I'm just going to get Alien and Aliens as single BD releases. since I really don't care about any of the other films. It's interesting too to compare the differences between Ridley Scott and James Cameron's vision, not just on the films themselves but how each handles their high def transfers. Scott going for natural film look with lots of film grain, Cameron doing everything he can to make his film crystal clear with no grain at all, like it was made yesterday. It says a lot about each as a film director and their personal sensibilities when it comes to making films.
Quote from: Michaelvk on 04 July, 2011, 06:51:07 PM
Herself got me the Alien Anthology on bluray today. Late birthday prezzie.. I think it'll take me a month to get through all of it.
I don't have the Blue Ray, but it's one of my favourite DVD collections.
I'd buy the aliens single blu ray in an instant, but you can't buy them separately in the uk and I begrudge having to buy the whole set :p.
Those fuckers have done the same with Jurassic Park - I only want the first film and I ain't buying the two crappy sequels!
I know this is sacrilege, but I'm not overly mad on the Ridley Scott original. I like it, but it's VERY slow and isn't the sort of film I'd watch again and again like I could do with aliens. I have a huge soft spot for alien 3, and don't really understand why it gets such a hard time. The directors cut is indeed excellent. I thought it was a very bold sequel and very admirable how its so grim and does it's own thing rather than just copy aliens.
Quote from: radiator on 05 July, 2011, 10:14:27 PM
I have a huge soft spot for alien 3, and don't really understand why it gets such a hard time.
The answer is in the first five minutes - the most callous evisceration of the previous film anyone could possibly imagine. It'd be like if they did a sequel to 'It's A Wonderful Life' and George Bailey went on a killing spree with a road-drill. I hate 'Alien 3' unreservedly - it's my least favourite film of all time. (Objectively, of course, I am aware that there's lots of stylish direction and whatnot, but I cannot forgive its crimes against the characters of 'Aliens'.)
QuoteThe answer is in the first five minutes - the most callous evisceration of the previous film anyone could possibly imagine.
It's harsh, yes, and I remember being shocked, but it never really bothered me all that much and I actually think it's a very bold move.
I see each Alien film as distinct from each other, each one starting with a clean slate and a new director's vision. If you ask me,
Resurrection was more of a betrayal of the previous films - the plot was a bit implausible, I didn't like what they did with Ripley, it was overly stylised and the ott, almost comedic tone of it was jarring to me. Would have been interesting to see what original director choice Danny Boyle would have done with it.
Interestingly, I don't mind Alien Resurrection at all because that one really is a blank slate - it doesn't feature any of the previous characters (the clone is a different character from Ripley, and therefore doesn't bother me) and seems remarkably comic book-y in feel - I agree it is stylised and OTT, but I find that quite enjoyable. As the title implies, it's a new start, so I don't mind a new aesthetic. For me, the damage is already done by that stage, and whatever comes after 'Alien 3' can only be an improvement (and can't ruin 'Aliens' any further.)
I disliked what they did at the start of Alien 3 too, [spoiler]killing off Hicks and Newt after all they went through in Aliens[/spoiler] but it didn't spoil my enjoyment of Alien 3. I guess I just took it for what it was, Ripley, on a planet of criminal monks and the return of the Alien threat.
Cinematically it was particularly wonderful. The camera-work was great, and I'm very fond of the longer cut (not a Director's cut, by the way, that doesn't exist) too. It's a bit messy as they seem to have stuck a lot of superfluous footage together, but the extra plot twist involving McGann's character it provides makes it worthwhile as do the extra scenes at the start. Those particular scenes at the start, don't add to the plot but they're great in providing snapshots of the environment and the life of the monks. And that shot of the Doctor walking along the beach is beautifully shot. It's simple but effective.
Quote from: radiator on 05 July, 2011, 10:14:27 PM
I'd buy the aliens single blu ray in an instant, but you can't buy them separately in the uk and I begrudge having to buy the whole set :p.
This annoyed me too but they are available separately in the US and Amazon currently have them for $12.49, which works out less than £8 each.
They appear to be region free too :)
If anyone is interested, Amazon have the 4 disk Bluray anthology set for a tenner at the moment -
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006MGB31Q/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B003AQBYUG&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=0CD2YEXZXG4TP7V4GEF0 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006MGB31Q/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B003AQBYUG&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=0CD2YEXZXG4TP7V4GEF0)
Well worth it even if you only want it for a couple of the films.
I managed to get the 6 disk edition for £15 earlier in the week but it's gone back up to £18 now (still a good buy even at that price). It arrived yesterday, I had a flick through it last night and the quality of the transfers is just superb.
There goes £10 of my pocket money
I think Alien3 is a cracking film, and as I hate Aliens with a passion I was delighted at what happened to the characters at the start.
Quote from: Greg M. on 05 July, 2011, 10:30:57 PMThe answer is in the first five minutes - the most callous evisceration of the previous film anyone could possibly imagine.
It is why I liked the Dark Horse comics, as they predated the third film and continued the story from Aliens. What is interesting is that they must have known about this as a possible basis for a third film but decided to take it in a different direction. Personally, I'd have loved to see Vincent Ward's version with monks in a wooden satellite:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_3#Vincent_Ward.27s_.22Wooden_Monastery.22
Unfortunately, there was so much dicking around with the script and studio interference that the result was almost guaranteed to less than the various options that were on the table at almost every stage of development. A real missed opportunity.
I've got "Beautiful Monsters: The Unofficial and Unauthorised Guide to the Alien and Predator Films" which is handy for all the back and forth on the films.
Quote from: radiator on 05 July, 2011, 10:14:27 PMThose fuckers have done the same with Jurassic Park - I only want the first film and I ain't buying the two crappy sequels!
3 is the only JP film I own, as it had a good chunk of watchable story even if the ending never quite appears and they just sort of go home at the finish. It probably helps that by the time they made 3 they'd accepted the novelty of CGI had worn off and they needed to be a bit less smug than the first two flicks and made a good old-fashioned monster mash-up with less kickboxing olympic gymnasts or computer hacking prodigies and more giant lizards stomping about eating the shit of the cast.
Alien 3 is terrible for many reasons, but mainly because it's just a mess of a story - though it's a handsome film, certainly.
Quote from: radiator on 05 July, 2011, 10:14:27 PM
I have a huge soft spot for alien 3, and don't really understand why it gets such a hard time. The directors cut is indeed excellent. I thought it was a very bold sequel and very admirable how its so grim and does it's own thing rather than just copy aliens.
Probably because in the case of the
assembly cut while it starts well with the extra scenes, story-wise it completely collapses half-way in, momentum vanishes, and dramatically it doesn't come back. Not Fincher's fault since they were forced to shoot
as soon as while making the script up as they went.
Best thing about the A3 DVD is the documentary on the struggle to get the various versions of A3 made and of course the full read on the wonderful missed oppurtunity of Ward's wooden-monk-planetoid.
Quote from: Goaty on 04 July, 2011, 09:01:32 PM
Best of it is Alien3 "Assembly Cut" which was brilliant better than Cinematic version!
Great to hear other forum dwellers that appreciate the woefully-underrated and unfairly maligned Alien 3, it really is the boldest, the most daring, and the least conventional of the trilogy - yes, that was correct, TRILOGY, the abomination that was
...Resurrection doesn't count in my book - it wasn't the film that audiences expected nor wanted, but would they have wanted a re-run of Aliens, only with bigger action and effects sequences, how would that have been interesting or engaging!?
If FOX had allowed the writers another month or six weeks to get the script done right, given David Fincher the room to shoot the movie he wanted, and not cut it to ribbons for the theatrical release, not only would that movie stand tall alongside it's two predecessors (which it very nearly does as is), it would have been the best of the three, hands down, but even in it's flawed state, I consider Alien 3 to be unquestionably the Empire Strikes Back of the Alien trilogy... and as far as [spoiler]Hicks' and Newt's sudden demises [/spoiler]are concerned, it fits in perfectly with the movie's thematic narrative; that death is no respecter of the rightness of a cause or the character of a person, it comes to us all regardless, it's how you deal with it that matters, and when it comes for Ripley, she is not a victim, she grabs hold of it (literally) with both hands, and dies a martyr, saving humanity and vanquishing her enemy in the process, making the final recorded soundbite all the more poignant, in that she is the last survivor of the Nostromo, and with her death, none of the Nostromo's crew survived their encounter with the alien species, and although Ripley, by sheer strength of will, survived far longer than the others, ultimately she too succumbs to the inevitable in the end...
The Alien series is my favourite film 'franchise'. I'm never sure whether I prefer the first or second; they are different genres really, so it's about whether you prefer a tense survival horror over an all-out action thriller.
Alien3(does anyone call it "alien cubed", as in in prison?) I really like, be it dog- or cow-alien, but it has less rewatch value.
I actually like Resurrection. Be fair, where can the writer go after 3? It sometimes looks like a computer game, and I am no fan of CGI aliens, but it certainly entertains, and all that genetics stuff may seriously have influenced the thinking on Prometheus.
I enjoyed them all as well. Including the Alien Vs Predator films... although they're weaker than the Alien films and in hindsight I think they should have taken a future route like in the comics.
Back to the Alien films, when comparing the theatrical (or cinematic since most of us here are British) versions of the films to the second versions on the quadrilogy (be it director's cuts, assemblies, etc) I tend to side with the second... yet really my own definitive version would be somewhere between the two. In other words I like different things in each version.
Take Aliens for example. I like liked the extra earth-base stuff from the Director's Cut, particularly Ripley investigating what happened to her daughter, etc. On the other hand while I thought the robot machine gun sequence interesting it strikes me a superlative and makes the mistake of turning the aliens into unintelligent cannon fodder. I.e, I don't think the aliens are sentient, but they are intelligent enough to be sneaky and were even able to work out how to shut off the power at one point! Having them continuously throw themselves into the line of fire after the first few are killed stuck me as inconsistent.
I'm the same, if I could take out the automated guns and all the colony stuff (with Newt and her family discovering the ship) then I'd have my perfect cut! As it is I think the special edition drags a bit and I always preferred turning up at the colony with the marines and just seeing the aftermath.
Without the guns, much of the rest of Aliens doesn't stand up to scrutiny. There are so few aliens left at the later part of the film—so where did they all go? In the Director's Cut, we see: they mostly got mown down by automated gunfire. In the standard version of the film, they presumably all popped to the shops for a bag of crisps.
Ive a soft spot for Alien3 as well, though to actually watch it is to witness a messy failure. But it has a history behind it (numerous scripts, different cuts, the whole making of....), which when viewed as a whole, makes for a interesting package.
Caught Aliens on Telly the other day, and i was struck by just how much it screams of the 80's now - and though the Alien Queen herself is a great design, the whole egg laying concept lacks imagination really. Still a great fun film though.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 08 April, 2012, 01:16:58 PM
they presumably all popped to the shops for a bag of crisps.
Monster Munch I'd assume.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 08 April, 2012, 01:16:58 PM
Without the guns, much of the rest of Aliens doesn't stand up to scrutiny. There are so few aliens left at the later part of the film—so where did they all go? In the Director's Cut, we see: they mostly got mown down by automated gunfire. In the standard version of the film, they presumably all popped to the shops for a bag of crisps.
Fair point. I've often thought Ripley's later walk into the Alien hive rather uneventful, although I took that to mean the Alien's purposefully kept back to lure her into the trap. They've learnt, in other words. I still think aliens continuously throwing themselves into the line of fire makes little sense when considering what we know of these creatures though.
I guess it could argued that they're more reckless in large numbers, but even so.
The robot guns were cool though.
On a Alien related matter (has this been posted on elsewhere?) is anyone getting the re-issued Alien : the illustrated story Graphic Novel, that was originally released in '79?
The remastered editon(s) are due for release at the end of May.
(http://i.imgur.com/urN2o.jpg)
The softcover colour version is about a tenner, and the Hardcover B/W Artist edition about £30+.
The Hardcover come with a signed Alien print, amongst other bits and bobs.
(http://i.imgur.com/dfsrq.jpg)
I've still got my original 70s copy
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g174/daveycandlish/Image38.jpg)
This is the first comic I can remember reading that had swearing in it, although they did take certain liberties, graphicly...
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g174/daveycandlish/Image39.jpg)
I thought i was the only one to refer to Alien 3 as 'alien cubed', and i thought that was just the 2000AD influence, to be honest. Glad to see im not alone, though do the general populace refer to being in prison as being 'cubed', so IS it a joke in the title?
I confess im not a fan of Alien or Aliens particularly- ive always found the first one boringly-paced and massively overlong. But this might be because the first few times i saw it were on tv, with adverts- making it a many hours marathon like the equally now disliked james bond films.
Aliens ive always thought to be a pathetic rambo-clone in space, and early indication of jim cameron's plan to dominate cinema with bollocks.
Alien 3 however, in whatever cut you see it, has an elegance and a nihilism that impresses. Nothing nice or good happens to anyone, everyone you like comes to a sticky end, it pisses in the face of the previous film's fans by killing their cosy favourites-of-fanfic and refusing to feature the kind of macho weaponary and (cont)
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 08 April, 2012, 10:39:40 PMkilling their cosy favourites-of-fanfic
You do know that when it's a professionally-produced novel or comic that it isn't actually fanfiction?
Also you seem to be splitting your posts a lot, SBT. By any chance is this to avoid Firefox swallowing them whole after a certain amount of time? Used to bug the hell out of me when mine did that, but an uninstall/reinstall will fix it for you.
(cont) cold blue steel and machinery that cameron fetishised to such extremes. I have far more time for 3 than for any of the others. It's not perfect by any means, and the later cut is far better, obviously, but it's where the Alien series stops for me- with ripley's swan dive (mirroring arnie's in t2, again fincher seems to be literally calling cameron out on film- i'd be interested to know if they get along, personally). The fourth movie and the silly 'vs predator films' are entertaining only for their ridiculousness and crapness. And however bad the AVP franchise is, the french one with the ugly people and the humalien hybrid (i laugh as i write that, even now- awww it looks sad!) is far, far worse.
Im not at all interested in Prometheus, im afraid.
SBT
Prof, no, it's just that my phone limits me as to how much text i can input per message. So i have to shout (cont) at the end, like john from john's not mad. As for the difference between fanfic and paid work- nah, has nuWho taught you nothing!? It's all the same- ive got and have read all those dark horse comics post-Aliens, and i read fair number of the tie-in novels they released (well, about three), and they were quite good. Especially the comics.
But they're done by fans, people with a strongly posive emotional response to the movies, who just wanted to recreate a bit of that. It's not always the best way to create something new and exciting based on a property, as i think the thing wrong with all of them is they're too reverential. Alien 3, the movie, isnt. It actively seems to dislike its predecessor (at least that's how i read it), and as result is far more vital than the comics the fans wanted to see on screen. I think, anyway.
SBT
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 08 April, 2012, 10:47:53 PM
And however bad the AVP franchise is, the french one with the ugly people and the humalien hybrid (i laugh as i write that, even now- awww it looks sad!) is far, far worse.
Alien Resurrection is a masterpiece compared to those two abysmal AvP movies. At least it has some ideas-no matter how poorly they're implemented.
Quote from: dweezil2 on 08 April, 2012, 11:05:04 PM
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 08 April, 2012, 10:47:53 PM
And however bad the AVP franchise is, the french one with the ugly people and the humalien hybrid (i laugh as i write that, even now- awww it looks sad!) is far, far worse.
Alien Resurrection is a masterpiece compared to those two abysmal AvP movies. At least it has some ideas-no matter how poorly they're implemented.
....and it has Kim Flowers incredible bum in it.
(http://i.imgur.com/VxVOX.jpg)
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 08 April, 2012, 10:39:40 PM
I confess im not a fan of Alien or Aliens particularly- ive always found the first one boringly-paced and massively overlong.
Much as I like Alien, I found the start dragged quite a bit. I thought the Director's cut better paced, although I'm not sure if that's just my imagination. As with Aliens, my definititive version would be somewhere between the two though. I thought that extra scene where Ripley [spoiler]finds Dallas cocooned[/spoiler] was supefluous, and I completely understood why they took it as it does mess with the pacing that point in the film. Not to mention [spoiler]confusing the Alien's lifecycle[/spoiler] somewhat, although I didn't understand that [spoiler]Brett was being turned into an egg[/spoiler], until I read that explanation online. [spoiler]I thought he was just in a strange looking cocoon.[/spoiler]
Sure, that scene was filmed before Cameron came up with the idea of the Queen, but the fact the Director's cut was edited later means they should have taken that continuity into account.
It does explain that line [spoiler]"There was no Dallas, no blood, nothing."[/spoiler] in an earlier scene, though, since an Alien's form of attack usually leaves a good deal of blood. If possible editing that line might have been better, but I'm not sure that would have worked without an abrupt cut in that scene. (And most viewers have probably forgotten it by the end of the film, anyway.)
It's an interesting scene, but I think it should have been left as a deleted scene like it was in the previous Alien Legacy box set.
Watched Alien last night, having got this box set for £10 last week. I never realised how obvious it is that the Company knew about the ship. This easily ties in with Prometheus. In fact, the whole thing seems to be that Ash has been ordered to get a sample for the Company.
However, there are plot holes a plenty:
1) Why didn't the just freeze John Hurt, as suggested?
2) Why did John Hurt, and later the crew, go so gung-ho with quarantine procedures? There's an alien attached to a crew-member's face, FFS. Why operate on him? Why have dinner with him?
3) Did they know about alien life? The way they react to the crashed ship suggests so, but then why not be prepared for it going wrong?
4) Why did John Hurt break the mist and go into the egg chamber?
Quote from: Mardroid on 09 April, 2012, 12:23:36 AM
Much as I like Alien, I found the start dragged quite a bit. I thought the Director's cut better paced, although I'm not sure if that's just my imagination. As with Aliens, my definititive version would be somewhere between the two though. I thought that extra scene where Ripley [spoiler]finds Dallas cocooned[/spoiler] was supefluous, and I completely understood why they took it as it does mess with the pacing that point in the film. Not to mention [spoiler]confusing the Alien's lifecycle[/spoiler] somewhat, although I didn't understand that [spoiler]Brett was being turned into an egg[/spoiler], until I read that explanation online. [spoiler]I thought he was just in a strange looking cocoon.[/spoiler]
Sure, that scene was filmed before Cameron came up with the idea of the Queen, but the fact the Director's cut was edited later means they should have taken that continuity into account.
It does explain that line [spoiler]"There was no Dallas, no blood, nothing."[/spoiler] in an earlier scene, though, since an Alien's form of attack usually leaves a good deal of blood. If possible editing that line might have been better, but I'm not sure that would have worked without an abrupt cut in that scene. (And most viewers have probably forgotten it by the end of the film, anyway.)
It's an interesting scene, but I think it should have been left as a deleted scene like it was in the previous Alien Legacy box set.
The whole concept of [spoiler]Dallas and Brett turning into eggs[/spoiler], though edited out of the original cut, was no real secret - and had been known about from day one really. Its featured in Giger's Alien book, numerous mags of the time had written about it and its mentioned in the PB as well. Always thought it a very strange concept, and could never quite get to grips with it back in the day. Then of course came the dvd's and we saw the actual deleted footage (then later on re-instated in the "directors cut").
Ridley has said both versions of the film are valid - so continuity isnt messed about with so much, i guess.
The whole [spoiler]mutating aspect of that scene, does seem to fit in nicely with elements of Prometheus, from what i can gather[/spoiler].
A strange and unsettling concept, but one thats infinitely more satisfying, and alien, than Cameron's Earth bound analogy.
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 09 April, 2012, 12:47:13 PM
However, there are plot holes a plenty:
1) Why didn't the just freeze John Hurt, as suggested?
2) Why did John Hurt, and later the crew, go so gung-ho with quarantine procedures? There's an alien attached to a crew-member's face, FFS. Why operate on him? Why have dinner with him?
3) Did they know about alien life? The way they react to the crashed ship suggests so, but then why not be prepared for it going wrong?
4) Why did John Hurt break the mist and go into the egg chamber?
Most if not all of those are dealt with in the film:
1) and some of 2) As Ash, working on the companies orders would have been in charge of such decisions as Science Officer and clearly didn't want to. I'd guess the company wanted to find out as much as they could with a safe control group away from Earth.
Rest of 2) The beastie was dead and if Ash didn't say otherwise why would the rest of the crew worry. After all by that point Quarantine was well and truly broken at the end of what was clearly a very stressful time for all why not have a meal to celebrate at the injured parties request?
3) Aliens suggests that by that time contact with Alien races is established and the Quarantine rules (broken) in Alien support that idea. Again the Science Officer mani[pulating the situation covers most of that.
4) There's a few character points in the film that make it clear that Kane is an adventurous man and might well let his curiosity run away with his common sense.
Regarding question 3, we have the referance in Aliens to "Arcturian poontang!", though what that actually is, is never really elaborted on. In the Alien novel, its mentioned that when they first come across the derelict, Ash checks with Mother, and informs Dallas that its "an unknown type - that doesnt correlate with anything previously encountred before". Whether thats made up by Alan Dean Foster, or is taken from an earlier script draft is open to debate. Over on the Prometheus site, the timeline states that by that time at least, life has been discovered on Europa.