Blimey, this flopped through my letterbox today, what a fantastic surprise!
I've had a quick flick through, behind Clint Langley's half cool, half not so cool (you'll see what I mean) wraparound cover there's a great twisty, turny time travelling Dredd tale which should give us older readers a buzz by Mike Carroll and the wonderful Nick Dyer. Dredd and Armitage continue their investigation which has an eye popping final page! American Reaper will continue to polarise the readership, especially as this episode erm... guest stars novelty rock act, The Darkness!?! Finally John Smith and Colin MacNeil's Strange and Darke debuts. As you'd expect, the script is crackers (though presently its reading more like a Grennie script than a Smith) and Colin's artwork is beautiful. The colours by Len O'Grady and Dee Cunniffe are outstanding - s'nice!
Add to this the movies and an interview with the fantastic Simon Jacob and there's yer Meg.
I'll do a proper review when I've had a proper read. Hmmm, the Darkness?
Quote from: Pete Wells on 28 December, 2011, 10:39:17 AM
American Reaper will continue to polarise the readership, especially as this episode erm... guest stars novelty rock act, The Darkness!?!
Ohh well done Pat. Something to switch mild dislike into actively ignore.
That's.... bizarre. I'd considered making this the issue where I got back on-board with the Megazine, given that I'm keen to read any new peculiarness from the mighty pen of Smith, but given my profound loathing of The Darkness, I'm almost having second thoughts. (But not really. The lure of new Smith is too strong...)
Also worth mentioning that this Meg comes bagged with Durham Red: Island of the Damned - a great little story and - imo - by far the best solo Red series. Lovely Ezquerra art, too.
wow...My Meg just arrived....soaking wet as usual, thankfully its bagged so no damage to it at all.
incidentally I had prog 1764 thru my door on xmas eve.
[spoiler]Looks like the brain child is back in Dredd[/spoiler].
V
Overall a great meg (although I haven't read the floppy or the articles yet, and of late am finding I often don't ever get around to the articles), but the whole Darkness thing threw me, in a very bad way. It just seems so horribly out of place and left me wondering if it's part of publicity for their comeback and so a money-led decision? This seems suspiciously like American Reaper jumping the shark, which is a shame as I've been enjoying it a great deal, so it's a shame to see it cheapened like that.
Quote from: radiator on 28 December, 2011, 11:05:08 AM
Also worth mentioning that this Meg comes bagged with Durham Red: Island of the Damned - a great little story and - imo - by far the best solo Red series. Lovely Ezquerra art, too.
Yes. Couldn't agree more. Whilst I read and moderately enjoyed all of Red's subsequent adventures, this is the only one I truly enjoyed. The rest were big, pretentious affairs that took Red far from her roots (yep, I know). Finally a floppy I'll enjoy.
Quote from: Keef Monkey on 01 January, 2012, 02:29:17 PM
Overall a great meg (although I haven't read the floppy or the articles yet, and of late am finding I often don't ever get around to the articles), but the whole Darkness thing threw me, in a very bad way. It just seems so horribly out of place and left me wondering if it's part of publicity for their comeback and so a money-led decision? This seems suspiciously like American Reaper jumping the shark, which is a shame as I've been enjoying it a great deal, so it's a shame to see it cheapened like that.
Yeah, my feelings too, though I am assuming it wasnt so much a money thing, but a "if you have to phot ref these things, you will have to end up here" kinda thing. You need a band to photo, so it may not be unreasonable of that band to try and wrangle some free publicity out of it!
Foreword. In the interests of promoting a positive outlook for the New Year, please imagine this is actually my last unconstructive and mean-spirited post of 2011 which was delayed by the public holiday.
Holy Christ! It hadn't occurred to me that there was a way American Reaper could get any worse.
The Dredd story starts off with a pretty decent premise but doesn't do much for me. I can see the attraction of referring back to older stories: it gives a little hook for the writer to spin off from, affords the long-term reader a smile of recognition and preserves the illusion of MC1 as a living interconnected setting. However, if I'm honest, I'm getting a bit fed up with it and I think the newer writers should be looking to build up a larger catalogue of their own villains and crazes and crimes before looking backwards.
I'm not a big fan of Nick Dyer's art either. Nothing to do with it being "cartoony" or whatever. It's just a personal, subjective dislike of his style, particularly the massive eyes.
Strange and Darke may not quite be vintage John Smith yet, but it's certainly the strip I enjoyed most. While it starts from the same point as the new Indigo Prime - heading off on a mission with a new recruit the ropes who needs everything explained to them - it seems to be far more of a straight story than IP. Maybe it's the down to Earth gorblimeyness of the Strange himself but it reads to me like a deliberate attempt to write something more approachable. Whether it continues in this vein or shoots off at a weird angle next month, I'm looking forward to more.
Interesting to see Colin MacNeil's art looking quite different to his normal Dredd style too. Some of this is definitely down to the colouring but I'm not qualified to say how much.
Weak Meg all round.
Quote from: The Cosh on 02 January, 2012, 02:11:13 PM
Holy Christ! It hadn't occurred to me that there was a way American Reaper could get any worse.
Pat & Clint must be still crying with laughter after persuading Trudy Styler to cough up real money for option rights.
Biggest practical joke since Viv Stanshall & Keith Moon's trouser-separation antics.
Liked the new one Strange and Darke with excellent art,skipped AR as it's not really doing anything for me,Dreddy was fine but Durham Red freebie was the highlight. haven't read much of this stuff and it seemed really good. Shame it seems (according to other boarders) that it didn't continue in the same vein. (Ow! :))
Loved Strange & Darke, a very British BPRD it seems (even more so than Cabs). American Reaper was an embarrasment though.
Does anyone know how many episodes we can expect of American Reaper? I'd like to be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
I think there are two more episodes - it was mentioned in last month's issue that we were at the halfway point.
Can't wait for Diggle and Jock's Snapshot, which is presumably going to take it's place - looks to be much more my cup of tea.
Halfway through? but hardly anything's happened yet! I was willing to give American Reaper the benefit of the doubt as a bold experiment, but I think it hasn't been a successful one. The premise is interesting, but plot-wise it's rather thin; the photo-story style wears out it's welcome pretty quickly, and the Darkness guest appearance was just embarassing.
Likewise. It has the feeling of a bloated future shock at the moment. Although in fairness I did stop reading it half way through this issue. Doubt I'll bother to pick it up. I did enjoy reading the Durham Red floppy though which kind of made up for it.
I have yet to touch American Reaper since it started. I am going to hit the in one big sitting.
V
Picked up the Meg and what a great surprise.The return of my namesake!
I put in the suggestion for his return on the board back in September ,looks like somebody took it up (yes ,somebody reads them!).Perhaps not the best Dredd one-off of course but at the time (at a tender age) it struck me as a brilliantly concise and witty story superbly executed and it stuck with me.
Not exactly the story I had in mind but extremely pleased to see his return ,only downer now being he will probably get blown to kingdom come in the very next episode...... Please be merciful (no high-ex) ;)
I utterly loved Strange and Darke. It's insane and very entertaining, with top-notch art. Did anyone else spot the [spoiler]masturbating fairy[/spoiler]?
I also really enjoyed the Dredd story, which is a really good idea, and Armitage has been better than I'd hoped. That's a great final page.
I'm afraid American Reaper has lost me. I had to force myself to read it all. I expect that comments such as the ones posted here will widen the rift between some comics pros and what they like to describe as "fandom", but I just don't get this story at all. It may look cool to some eyes but there's no reading in it. The dialogue is stilted and the art makes the story difficult to understand.
I suppose I could just stop reading it. I've no idea who it's aimed at but, if there's a market for it, I suppose it should be tapped.
If Strange and Darke was in the prog, I think I would probably cancel the Meg now.
- Trout
Maybe what all the naysayers need is a song:
American Reaper/
He's so tough/
American Reaper/
Doing Reaper stuff.
American Reaper, he's so cool/
If you don't like him, you're a fool/
Guest appearance from Justin Hawk[ins]/
Disapprove, and you're a dork.
American Reaper/
So damn great/
American Reaper/
I wish we could mate.
Clint Langley, better than Kirby/
Drawing like a fucking demolition derby/
Redefining "comic art"/
Get with the program, you old farts!
R. E./
A.P./
E.R/
That's who he are.
REAPEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
(Reaper)
Liked Dredd, although not sure if the whole [spoiler]time travel thing[/spoiler] was necessary.
Liking Armitage a lot more than the recent run of stories, especially the reveal at the end.
Strange and Darke looks interesting, see how it progresses.
I'm still struggling with American Reaper, there are some nice ideas there, but finding the photoref artwork hard work. Sorry...
I suspect that American Reaper might be popular on the European continent when collected.
I was in a comic shop in Amsterdam recently (http://lambiek.net/home.htm) and the only 2000AD material I could see were very well produced Clint Langley Slaine hardback editions in Dutch (very prominently displayed) and a very old tatty Dutch version of America (which was filed under Simon Bisley!).
I think I was last in that shop about 25 years ago on a college trip and there was a buzz about it, which was not the feeling I got there recently. Looking online, I see that the owner sadly passed away in 2010.
Quote from: SuperSurfer on 04 January, 2012, 08:22:04 PM
I suspect that American Reaper might be popular on the European continent when collected.
That's kind of what I was getting at, too. I note that everyone's being very respectful about this strip, even though it's no surprise that very few people like it.
Now SBT will come along and call me an arse. ;)
Quote from: King Trout on 04 January, 2012, 08:37:31 PM
Quote from: SuperSurfer on 04 January, 2012, 08:22:04 PM
I suspect that American Reaper might be popular on the European continent when collected.
That's kind of what I was getting at, too. I note that everyone's being very respectful about this strip, even though it's no surprise that very few people like it.
How's that lads? Have the Europeans got no taste now?
In my experience, Pat's Euro work is much denser than this.
Quote from: King Trout on 04 January, 2012, 08:37:31 PM
Now SBT will come along and call me an arse. ;)
Arse.
:D
No, of course not. American Reaper was bound to be controversial- Pat and Clint, livin' it up in Photoshopping Heaven. It was always going to split the readership, and as human nature dictates- people stating they don't like it will take the time to do so, whereas people who do like it or don't care, won't. Which is why I'm always deeply suspicious of comic letters pages that state "we'd like to print criticism, but we didn't get any!" Yeah, riiight.
Personally, I quite like American Reaper. It's not Pat or Clint's best work in my opinion, and I don't think it's lived up to the promise of that barnstorming first chapter in the Meg; where it blasted away whatever else that was in there that month by virtue of not looking or reading like anything else I'd seen in ages. But I very much look forward to reading it in a complete edition- be it in one sit down sesh through the Meg, or in a lovely big hardback. Presentation will be key to this one's success I think- I've said before that I bloody hate the paper the prog and Meg are printed on at the moment, and with the Meg especially the extra weight affects it somehow making it look even cheaper than the weekly. But in a hardback, on heavy paperstock, like the perhaps better Euro editions of The Books of Invasions... I think this will be huge.
Speaking of paperstock- it occurred to me today that whatever they use for the covers of the free floppies is absolutely lovely. Why can't the weekly and monthly be covered in that? With that as the cover and Beano-paper inside it'd be a much more attractive package.
Anyway- American Reaper- yeah, it's okay. I like it. But I'm reserving judgement at the moment. Like all Pat's work, it'll no doubt reward the careful reader in time. And at the very least will be yet another reason why he's the most fascinating writer currently working in comics and the most important, bar none, of the last forty years.
SBT
For my next trick:
CandymanCandymanCandymanCandymanCandyman.
Rahhh!
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 04 January, 2012, 10:01:52 PM
Speaking of paperstock- it occurred to me today that whatever they use for the covers of the free floppies is absolutely lovely. Why can't the weekly and monthly be covered in that? With that as the cover and Beano-paper inside it'd be a much more attractive package.
SBT
Really ? I can't stand the covers for the floppy. They look good out of the package but blister and mark at the very slightest hint of water or hand moisture. Not that I go dunking them in the bath or anything but they seem to be really delicate.
I'm a fan of American Reaper, which surprised me as I've never really got on with Clint's work. Not my cup of tea and just far too much going on in the panels to take in. However it really works in AR and the number of panels spread over two pages really helps it in my opinion.
A good issue for me. I like MCarroll on Dredd, and this looks like fun. American Reaper is super cool, and the appearence of The Darkness reminded me of Skunk Anansie in the film Strange Days. Armitage was brilliant, and has hooked me more than any of the previous stories, with Goddard doing a great job on art as well. And so to Strange and Darke... I don't much like John Smith in general, but this has started really well, making me want more. Love the wanking fairy as well...
QuoteI'm not a big fan of Nick Dyer's art either. Nothing to do with it being "cartoony" or whatever. It's just a personal, subjective dislike of his style, particularly the massive eyes.
To be fair he doesn't really seem to do the big eyes any more.
happy new beer an aw that!
This would be a fine Meg except for the Jackie Photolove story with added beat combo? Seriously, is Mr Mills seeing how much pish can be ripped?
Armitage is cracking along well with that Nimrod Dredd splash page a beaut.
Mr Carroll's story is another fine piece o Dredd, but I do now want him to spread his wings and explore MC1 as he sees it, not only weaving past stories into the present. Liking this artwork too.
Text and film gubbing all good, just sad to see no letters page...
Quote from: radiator on 06 January, 2012, 02:17:57 PM
QuoteI'm not a big fan of Nick Dyer's art either. Nothing to do with it being "cartoony" or whatever. It's just a personal, subjective dislike of his style, particularly the massive eyes.
To be fair he doesn't really seem to do the big eyes any more.
Yeah, I noticed this on a second read and felt a bit bad about having singled it out.
Only read the floppy so far, but pleased to say this was my favourite one since The Balls Brothers! Great art from Carlos, including some nice paintwork on some of the landscape shots, and a nice Strontium Dog vibe to the whole thing. Slightly off-putting gratuitous camera angles in places and not really happy with the "Strontium Bitch" tagline but fairly minor quibbles.
Slightly daunted now at the reports of The Darkness I've seen above... :o
Quite enjoyed the Dredd, nice old school flavour to it, helped by nick's artwork - always enjoy his Dredd. I was a bit hesitant when I twigged that it was revisiting an old story, but having Dredd literally revisit the original story, Back to the Future 2 style is a neat twist.
Strange and Darke was good too - exceptional artwork and colouring. Love to see the constant evolution of Macniel's style.
Strange and Darke feel's like a rip off of Derek Landy's exeptioanl fantasy horror novel series Skullduggery pleasent.
A lot of wanking fairies in that, are there? ;)
Well, overcoming my grave misgivings about novelty pop band tie-ins, I decided to return to the Meg with this issue, Strange and Darke being my in-road. This strip at least has definitely whetted my appetite for more - excellent and original central concept, lead character who looks like Judge Mortis in a hat - loads of potential here. Really exciting to see Colin Macneil's art evolving - the increasing stylisation and use of thick lines are almost reminiscent of a more detailed Adrian Salmon.
Sullduggery Plesance just ripped off grim fandango :)
Also, Inspector Strange and his fabulous bestiary first appeared in a Devlin Waugh story about seven years ago.
How does he inhale those fags anyway?
Well, he's got lungs... it's just his face that's skeletal, isn't it? I do like the panel where the smoke comes out of his eye socket though.
The Dredd story is good fun and Dyer's art a great match, especially his rendering of the flashbacks. I suspect Mick Carroll was hoping for Brendan McCarthy who drew the original to scratch the sequel out but I always look forward to Dyer more than nearly all other new-school Dredd artists. Only thing that stood out is Judge Ramon just happened to have a Mark I Lawgiver handy for Dredd to take with him. Not sure if that really needed to happen.
Waiting for American Reaper to finish before I read it.
Strange & Darke had a great start but this type of thing doesn't really need to be a Dreddverse story but I suppose it saves the writer from a lot of exposition, if needed.
American Reaper is great, huge panoramic comics with great design work and clearly an attempt to do something different in terms of page structure and reading experience. Yes once or twice a face does look a bit roughly photo-shopped but at other times the art is just fantastic.
Quote from: James Stacey on 07 January, 2012, 03:49:22 PM
Sullduggery Plesance just ripped off grim fandango :)
Lies!!!! Burn the heretic!!!!!! :P
Quote from: The Cosh on 07 January, 2012, 03:51:55 PM
Also, Inspector Strange and his fabulous bestiary first appeared in a Devlin Waugh story about seven years ago.
Never read any Devlin Waugh.
Got my comp copies today in the mail, and I've decided to operate on the principle of if you can't say something nice about something, don't say anything at all.
I'm liking how Armitage turned out, if only cos it now looks like it was drawn in the 1990's rather than in 1974. The turnover page could have been, well, actually a turnover page, but it still looks very nice.
Strange and Darke looks good as well.
Thoroughly enjoyed Strange & Darke with some of the inking reminding me of PJ Holden - I think it's the pointed ends to the black that does it.
Armitage is decent - quite retro art (which is a good thing).
Nick Dyer isn't a bad artist but I'm not keen on his Dredd, and American Reaper... well it was said earlier in the thread - style over substance. I'm not a fan of this style of art and the story is ridiculously slight for the page count given it.
The creator interview is for an artist from the time I wasn't reading the prog (my wilderness years before I came back into the fold) but does make me want to look up some Armoured Gideon which i suppose is the whole point of it
Haven't read the floppy yet but hopefully it will be an improvement of the last few judging by the previous comments on here
So in all, it seems quite a slight Meg, but an improvement on the last couple
It won't be out in the US for another month, but 319 will mark my return to the Megazine after a long hiatus.
Question, when was the last time every story in the Meg was a new starting point? I'm looking to back track to at least that point to get a running start.
Just to quickly jump in and say that Patrick's art on Armitage is really good, and has a bunch of touches that fixed some horrendous gobblers I perpetrated in the writing stage. I say that cos of rereading what I wrote above and realising it might come off that I was being snide.
I've always been a huge fan of John Cooper since the Battle / Action Force days, but didn't think his style (or photoshop shading) worked well with Armitage. The new series looks lovely and the story is cracking along. Top stuff.
QuoteQuestion, when was the last time every story in the Meg was a new starting point?
298 I think.
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 07 January, 2012, 04:23:22 PMOnly thing that stood out is Judge Ramon just happened to have a Mark I Lawgiver handy for Dredd to take with him. Not sure if that really needed to happen.
When Dredd's finished with the gun he'll return to the present a few minutes earlier and leave it on the table for himself.
Patrick Goddards Art on Dredd Armitige is next-level business. Absolutely beautiful - highly reminiscent of Will Simpsons classic Dredd B&W (although he's not as prone to the dry-brush dirty finish as Will). Just great. Shows what an excellent character and romp Armitage can be with the right artist. Dialogue was great, action was great, gert-big gun-thing was great and the final splash-page...
Everything else was pretty sweet too - Dyers art improves the more he tones in the big-eyes, again a strong Cam Kennedy vibe to his stuff, American Reaper was again fun - how anyone can get so sweary and upset by a few panels showing The Darkness as generic rock act while the characters have some exposition in the venue is beyond me. Again just people using any stick to beat Mills and Langley. And Darke & Strange - fab.
Top work all concerned. Great Meg, Great Floppy (is that cover the all-time sexiest 2000AD drawing?)
Quote from: The Adventurer on 08 January, 2012, 09:51:16 AMQuestion, when was the last time every story in the Meg was a new starting point?
Wait till I finally get around to proposing my raft of Proper Dredd stories, when the eigenstatic Dreddworld is revealed to be in fact a post-Singularity world.
Just as soon as I remember the better word for Singularity that doesn't suggest that it's just Terminators running around everywhere. :P
Quote from: BPP on 10 January, 2012, 07:47:46 PMGreat Meg, Great Floppy (is that cover the all-time sexiest 2000AD drawing?)
Nope. Angelina, the wife of the Stainless Steel Rat, drawn by Carlos on the cover of 2000AD literally shot me into puberty.
God, I'm so old ...
nah, nice as she was the sort hair was -10 points.
Plus you have to remember that Durham is, at the end of the day, ginger - so extra skill needed to ensure hotness.
David Roach's Purity Brown was a contender.
The short hair was +10 points for me. On account of, you know, that I'm a notorious whoopsie and it takes a certain sort of woman ...
I'll go with Dave, the short crop of Mrs DiGriz trumps Durham Red's Poodle-do any day of the week...
At least we can all agree that 2000AD's flirtations with BALD women (ugh.. JANUS UGLY-SI) was a bad move.
right guys?
RIGHT???
The night Cass and Corey went clubbing was quite special. Was that Roach too?
And the bald chick from Zenith (Mandala?) wasn't bad.
Quote from: BPP on 10 January, 2012, 11:34:08 PM
At least we can all agree that 2000AD's flirtations with BALD women (ugh.. JANUS UGLY-SI) was a bad move.
Nope. There's a reason Janus is the Judge I wrote under the radar. :p
(EDIT: Not withstanding how the actress who played her got her completely wrong.)
Mr Stone, yer more wrong than Tracer.
Ho dear God, I've found myself in in a surreal conversation where I'm talking about which female 2000AD characters/Judges I fancy.
Then again, rather like MMRoPG's or the Sims, the female characters are the only ones you can talk about fancying - on account of how the males in them uniformly look like complete dorks. :)
Quote from: BPP on 10 January, 2012, 11:34:08 PM
At least we can all agree that 2000AD's flirtations with BALD women (ugh.. JANUS UGLY-SI) was a bad move.
right guys?
RIGHT???
wrong, you're forgetting Tankgirl in the Meg, anyway I think its the cosplay thread you want...
Strange & Darke was fantastic! That rat-Cthulhu thingy freaked me out nice and proper. Great characters, lovely MacNeil art. Nice.
This is also the most I've ever enjoyed Armitage as well. Nice script and it's always good to see someone taking the piss out of Dredd (seeing him squeezed into that little roadster elicited a chuckle!). Goddard's art has really brought out the very best in Stone's witty script, something that often was lost in previous stories where events seemed a bit muddled and hard-to-follow. This is crisp, clean and dynamic and it just makes for a much better read.
The Dredd tale was good fun but was mostly build-up. Looking forward to the next issue when the action kicks in.
American Reaper. It's a great concept. I even quite liked the first installment. But this is fucking terrible. Like, really bad. Clint Langley: for the love of God throw out that computer and pick up your pencils. A few nice cityscapes here and there are fine for movie concept work but it doesn't translate into a story. The characters look terrible and it's just a mess. A horrible, dire mess. And it's taking up a huge chunk of the Meg. They raised the price (alongside the VAT increases in Ireland) and they're giving us this? No. Please stop. How much longer do we have to suffer? Is the next issue the final part? Please, do not continue with this. I'll forgive you if this stops and it never happens again.
Lilly McKenize, SAVE US!!
yes, but did you like it?
I haven't bought the Meg in yonks, but I'm sorely tempted this month if only to see if American Reaper can really be as bad as I'm hearing!
It is. It really is. Oh, God, believe me, it is.
And it's literally a case of once you've seen it, you can't unsee it ever.
American Reaper would be best suited inside a quality comic like Clint. It's just like everyone says, a couple of pointless splash pages, very little story and way too much photo stuff. If it was more concise then I think it might work a lot better!
This months stand out strip was Armitage, then again how could you not enjoy a grumpy detective going about his business and taking no shit from Joe.
Quote from: COMMANDO FORCES on 12 January, 2012, 07:37:59 PM
This months stand out strip was Armitage, then again how could you not enjoy a grumpy detective going about his business and taking no shit from Joe.
Not to mention the two of them crammed in that wee roadster instead of the mega Megacity Truck :lol:
Good Meg this for me, firing strong on all but one cylinders!
It's all been said above but on the strength of this I'd definitely recommend anyone who hasn't tried the Meg of late to give it a whirl. Don't forget it IS an anthology, good people, and I'd strongly suggest it's one we want to keep around for a long, long time.
Gorgeous Goddard and MacNeil art btw, simply gorgeous. Good Floppy too!
Quote from: Proper Dave on 11 January, 2012, 12:15:34 AM
Then again, rather like MMRoPG's or the Sims, the female characters are the only ones you can talk about fancying - on account of how the males in them uniformly look like complete dorks. :)
Sadly 2000AD is rather short of fanciable male characters. When I first started reading it I have dim memories of liking Steve Dillon's take on one of the characters in Harlem Heroes and Armitage is quite tasty in an elder gent sort of way. Slaine was meant to be attractive but I only
liked him when Fabry drew him. Oh well never mind.
C'mon, Bradley the Sprog is a real looker.
I don't know what all the fuss is over American Reaper being pants. I think you Dredd uberfans just resent the fact that the story is taking up space in the mag where there is room for another Dredd strip.
I'd buy the Megazine at the moment just on the strength of the Armitage strip. Awesome!
Quote from: wonkychop on 23 January, 2012, 12:12:10 PM
I don't know what all the fuss is over American Reaper being pants. I think you Dredd uberfans just resent the fact that the story is taking up space in the mag where there is room for another Dredd strip.
I, for one, have never been against non-Dreddverse strips in the Megazine. For example Numbercruncher and Lilly McKenzie are two of the top creations that have had widespread and hearty support from nearly all sections of the Megazine fanbase for the simple reason they are top quailty tales, let's just leave it at that :-X
Quote from: wonkychop on 23 January, 2012, 12:12:10 PM
I don't know what all the fuss is over American Reaper being pants. I think you Dredd uberfans just resent the fact that the story is taking up space in the mag where there is room for another Dredd strip.
I'd buy the Megazine at the moment just on the strength of the Armitage strip. Awesome!
No, I resent it because it's utter bilge.
Me neither - I was annoyed that Preacher took up a huge chunk but that was purely because I already had the trades.
Both Lily Mackenzie and Numbercruncher were great - I'd rather have a good non-Dreddverse strip than a mediocre one related to Dredd.
As for Reaper, I don't particular like the photoref style, but that's purely subjective.
Quote from: mygrimmbrother on 23 January, 2012, 12:27:18 PM
Quote from: wonkychop on 23 January, 2012, 12:12:10 PM
I don't know what all the fuss is over American Reaper being pants. I think you Dredd uberfans just resent the fact that the story is taking up space in the mag where there is room for another Dredd strip.
I'd buy the Megazine at the moment just on the strength of the Armitage strip. Awesome!
No, I resent it because it's utter bilge.
That's subjective. What would you like to see in place of American Reaper?
Quote from: wonkychop on 23 January, 2012, 12:50:03 PM
That's subjective. What would you like to see in place of American Reaper?
Blank pages ;)
Quote from: COMMANDO FORCES on 23 January, 2012, 12:52:52 PM
Quote from: wonkychop on 23 January, 2012, 12:50:03 PM
That's subjective. What would you like to see in place of American Reaper?
Blank pages ;)
That'd be a start! ;)
No seriously though, you're right Wonkychop - it's entirely subjective. However, to answer you're question I'd like to see something -
anything - else. I'd rather have Tank Girl back (at least that had Rufus' lovely art going for it). It really isn't the fact that it's non-Dreddworld; Lily Mackenzie and Numbercruncher were both great. With AR, the script didn't really do anything for me and I was sort of indifferent to that aspect (until The Darkness showed up, which was downright embarrassing), but it's the art I detest. I know, I know, detest is a strong word - but it really is how I feel. There's no denying Langley's technical ability, but to me it's crude, ugly and doesn't tell a coherent story. And now we're back to opinion again.
I appreciate the point made earlier (was it by you?) that it's an anthology and that we're all better off for having it around rather than not, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't protest if I feel some of the content is genuinely bad.
On the plus side, we have Colin MacNeil drawing the new John Smith story, so it's not all doom and gloom eh?
Trying to be constructive - I think it trying to be cinematic is going to work better as a European collection, but broken down into monthly episodes, the overall size, splash pages etc does feel that it's taking up a lot of space for the amount the plot progresses.
I just think the endless photographs of Clint Langley's face pulling over-wrought expressions and the odd, two-dimensional and static quality of the art renders it ineffective and, frankly, looks laughable.
I can just about stand it when he's 'drawing' mainly robots in ABC Warriors but all the humans look really stupid.
Not a fan. Can't wait for it to end so we can get to Diggle and Jock's new biznizz.
Crude, ugly, doesn't tell a coherent story. True. Life is sometimes like that, and not always a beautiful picture. So I'm not sure how intentional the ugliness and crudity is. Isn't that in some ways the nature of the beast?
It does look laughable Lee; maybe that cheapness is part of the point to it?
Quote from: Lee Bates on 23 January, 2012, 02:32:56 PM
I can just about stand it when he's 'drawing' mainly robots in ABC Warriors but all the humans look really stupid.
I like his ABC warriors stuff except when the plastic people are added into the mix. His photoshop style works very well for that strip and possibly due to it being written explicitly for 2000AD it sits together more coherently. Extra splash pages were added in the ABC books, maybe some of the excess page count should have been removed for inclusion in the meg.
Quote from: wonkychop on 23 January, 2012, 02:43:31 PM
Crude, ugly, doesn't tell a coherent story. True. Life is sometimes like that, and not always a beautiful picture. So I'm not sure how intentional the ugliness and crudity is. Isn't that in some ways the nature of the beast?
It does look laughable Lee; maybe that cheapness is part of the point to it?
Possibly. Whether it's intentional or not, I don't like it.
It would be weird if you did like everything a certain artist did. Maybe they'll put a 3d strip in there next?
I'm not arguing that I'd like everything homogenous - far from it. The diversity of 2000AD - not just from prog to prog, but from story to story within that prog - has always been one of its greatest strengths. And I don't want all my art 'pretty and sophisticated' (the opposite of ugly and crude).
I dunno, I've pretty much refrained from venting about AR because of the age-old adage 'if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all', but on the other hand we're all paying customers and if I pretended everything was fine and dandy purely out of loyalty, well, I'd only be lying to myself.
Oh I see what you mean now. So what you're saying is that you feel you're being short changed with American Reaper being in the Dredd Megazine? Like you say, I thought it was a bit ugly and crude, but I think I enjoyed it for that reason. It might grow on you over time.
My big problem with American Reaper, personally, is that body-swapping is a complete SF cliche, and AR doesn't even begin to explore the implications for even a mainstream audience. The criminally underrated Dollhouse did that, and did it years ago.
Then there's the tone. It's no secret that I'm this total and unthinking Basic Lefty, but even as a kid couldn't get behind the Mills humourlessness and complete lack of wit or nuance. Would it kill the guy to add a couple of jokes?
Yes the body swapping has been done time and time again, this is why that S.F. trope is handled so lazily in the story I think. Yeah, I like the casual throwaway style of it. As for lack of humour, well it's a bit of a English character trait at times. ;)
There's a world of difference, though, between doing trashy, throwaway, gonzo stuff cos it's fun, and heaving in any old crap on the basis that the plebs won't know better.
As an instinctual writer, I'm honestly not sure how to say it properly - but just from the way the words sort of work together you can sort of tell when when it's done out of fun or just bleeds contempt.
Mmm. Contempt for who though Proper Dave? The readership, or the S.F. genre? As I say, the shabbiness of the strip to me is intrinsic to the plot and characterisation, the world they inhabit. Gut feelings are sometimes misleading.
Quote from: wonkychop on 24 January, 2012, 07:29:34 AM
Mmm. Contempt for who though Proper Dave? The readership, or the S.F. genre? As I say, the shabbiness of the strip to me is intrinsic to the plot and characterisation, the world they inhabit. Gut feelings are sometimes misleading.
What plot? What characterisation? My gut feeling is starting to tell me that you're a wind-up merchant.
Quote from: wonkychop on 24 January, 2012, 07:29:34 AM
shabbiness of the strip to me is intrinsic to the plot and characterisation, the world they inhabit.
If that is true, it's an astonishingly bad idea.
I don't share your feelings of dislike towards this strip and 2000ad Judge Dredd Megazine that you are displaying.
When my house is being turned upside down by teenagers running amok, the cat has shat on the carpet, television blaring away, neighbours next door arguing and the telephone constantly ringing, I am glad to have a strip such as American Reaper that is easy and undemanding to read.
When I wish to read something more subtle and "artistic", I wait untill everything in the house has calmed down to more reasonable levels of chaos so I can concentrate.
You not liking this doesn't bother me, but just credit me with some intelligence that I can make my own choice what stories I like to read.
The megazine in general is great. I subscribe to it and wouldn't if I disliked it. Has anyone said you shouldn't like it or that you are stupid if you don't? We are just all expressing our opinions on it.
Quote from: wonkychop on 24 January, 2012, 10:58:59 AM
, I am glad to have a strip such as American Reaper that is easy and undemanding to read.
That's my problem. It's anything but easy to read. Langley's storytelling is, to say the least, poor. The art is cluttered, too dark and everything looks exactly the same. There's no depth or flow to it and the characters looks completely ridiculous, like they've been glued on after the fact.
QuoteWhen I wish to read something more subtle and "artistic", I wait untill everything in the house has calmed down to more reasonable levels of chaos so I can concentrate.
You not liking this doesn't bother me, but just credit me with some intelligence that I can make my own choice what stories I like to read.
You'd do well to do the same for people who know what stories they don't like to read, or can tell when crap is crap. In a previous post, you dismissed peoples' opinions by assuming people didn't like American Reaper because "it wasn't a Dreddworld strip" which was entirely presumptuous and false.
QuoteI think you Dredd uberfans just resent the fact that the story is taking up space in the mag where there is room for another Dredd strip.
Nowhere did anyone say this. I resent AR because it's taking up twice as much space as previous strips in the same spot - Tank Girl, Numbercruncher and Lily McKenzie - all of which were vastly superior to this drivel. Again, I don't have any real problem with the concept (whether its derivative or not); it's the execution that falls far behind the standard of quality I've come to expect from the Megazine.
No there is not any depth or flow to it, I completely agree. Again my point is that this is an authorial intention and not 2000ad trying to sell their readers short with "drivel" as you termed it.
To me this a story that can be read in the real world, with real stuff going on, rather than sitting in a stuffy old library four hours on end concentrating furiously on a story. Which I did do yesterday with a copy of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.
I don't want to sit looking at "beautiful" pictures all day. Make way for some ugliness for once.
Quote from: wonkychop on 24 January, 2012, 12:54:10 PM
I don't want to sit looking at "beautiful" pictures all day. Make way for some ugliness for once.
You know not of what you speak. And that's me bowing out of this irritating discussion.
Quote from: wonkychop on 24 January, 2012, 12:54:10 PM
No there is not any depth or flow to it, I completely agree. Again my point is that this is an authorial intention and not 2000ad trying to sell their readers short with "drivel" as you termed it.
To me this a story that can be read in the real world, with real stuff going on, rather than sitting in a stuffy old library four hours on end concentrating furiously on a story. Which I did do yesterday with a copy of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.
I don't want to sit looking at "beautiful" pictures all day. Make way for some ugliness for once.
I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about here.
It's poor narrative storytelling. I never used the word 'ugly' or said I preferred 'beautiful' pictures. I stated that the storytelling capacities of the artist are insufficient to properly execute what's demanded from the story for it to make sense, or to be fun, or anything else. It has no flow, it has no sense of movement or dynamism that's necessary in comic art, it's flat and cluttered and repetitive. These are
not aesthetic choices. Being unable to tell a story in a way that makes sense or does the story any justice is
not an aesthetic choice. It's an artistic shortcoming.
I wouldn't say you need to sit in a library for hours to enjoy any story in the Megazine or 2000AD. No idea what you're getting at with that either.
Submitted without comment -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXUa6VVqq4c
Quote from: PreacherCain on 24 January, 2012, 01:58:30 PMThese are not aesthetic choices. Being unable to tell a story in a way that makes sense or does the story any justice is not an aesthetic choice. It's an artistic shortcoming.
Ah, but what's particularly interesting is that Clint Langley is perfectly capable of constructing a readable and attractive comic, as Lord of Misrule, Dinosty and other works attest. Does this not mean he
is making a choice? Or is it that the style he's adopted defeats even his storytelling skills?
Just by way of comparison, I'm sure I heard similar* criticisms leveled against McMahon's 'Howler' in the past, and I think that's bloody marvelous. I'd thus be wary of a claim of a story by a talented artist being
objectively bad - although I've no problem with it not being to anyone's taste.
*Although the works are by no means similar. I haven't read American Reaper but I've seen review pages. It's not a style I personally favour.
Quote from: PreacherCain on 24 January, 2012, 01:58:30 PM
I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about here.
It's poor narrative storytelling. I never used the word 'ugly' or said I preferred 'beautiful' pictures. I stated that the storytelling capacities of the artist are insufficient to properly execute what's demanded from the story for it to make sense, or to be fun, or anything else. It has no flow, it has no sense of movement or dynamism that's necessary in comic art, it's flat and cluttered and repetitive. These are
not aesthetic choices. Being unable to tell a story in a way that makes sense or does the story any justice is
not an aesthetic choice. It's an artistic shortcoming.
I wouldn't say you need to sit in a library for hours to enjoy any story in the Megazine or 2000AD. No idea what you're getting at with that either.
[/quote]
"It has no flow no sense of movement or dynamism that's necessary in comic art." True. Again I return to my original argument : intent. This is intentional to the strip because the strip wishes to interrogate and challenge our expectations of what a comic strip, or any other form of story telling should be.
That's the point, to challenge pre-conceived ideas.
No I sat in the library with Frankenstein not 2000ad.
Quote from: TordelBack on 24 January, 2012, 02:45:53 PM
Quote from: PreacherCain on 24 January, 2012, 01:58:30 PMThese are not aesthetic choices. Being unable to tell a story in a way that makes sense or does the story any justice is not an aesthetic choice. It's an artistic shortcoming.
Ah, but what's particularly interesting is that Clint Langley is perfectly capable of constructing a readable and attractive comic, as Lord of Misrule, Dinosty and other works attest. Does this not mean he is making a choice? Or is it that the style he's adopted defeats even his storytelling skills?
I think it's the latter. The style - which, admittedly, I dislike - is not conducive to comics storytelling and particularly not to this story. It makes more sense in a strip like ABC Warriors but that has narrative problems also (not helped by the usually reliable Mills).
In terms of practicalities, why is this strip afforded twice the space as its predecessors, and to add insult ton injury, at a time when they've raised the price? The only plus of this is that it'll be over twice as fast. The cynical side of me says the editor is thinking along the same lines.
I liked Howler. It made sense within the context of the story it was telling which was admittedly surreal. And IFrankenstein (sorry wonky, missed that detail in your last post!) :D
Thass o.k.
Quote from: mygrimmbrother on 23 January, 2012, 03:18:03 PM
I'm not arguing that I'd like everything homogenous - far from it. The diversity of 2000AD - not just from prog to prog, but from story to story within that prog - has always been one of its greatest strengths. And I don't want all my art 'pretty and sophisticated' (the opposite of ugly and crude).
I dunno, I've pretty much refrained from venting about AR because of the age-old adage 'if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all', but on the other hand we're all paying customers and if I pretended everything was fine and dandy purely out of loyalty, well, I'd only be lying to myself.
Heh! I've just discovered The Maccabees - a bit late, I know - but this I do like this song, which is kind of appropriate to your sentiments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhmKNBBp3OU
It's fine to experiment with faster panel pace, especially given the recent trend toward heavy dialogue & talking heads (e.g. recent Wagner Dredds) in too many comics.
However, American Reaper is literally vacuous. It swallows whole forests of paper with its oversized panels and unnecessary spreads. Mills & Langley are just taking the piss with their plot-to-page ratio.
You wouldn't get away with it in a Future Shock submission.
It would be a boring world if we all liked the same thing. I'm sorry you feel that someone is making fun of you when you're buying your Megazine. It's a fine publication in my view.
I guess it comes down to the format it's presented in. If I read it in a glossy hardback, cover to cover (let's face it, it wouldn't take long) I'd probably appreciate it more. Pretty pictures, lots of space to breath, fast moving. I probably wouldn't have noticed so much that all male characters are photorefs of Clint (as is almost every character on his website portfolio if you go look) or that it was just an overlong futureshock. When it's split over a monthly publication, it's just painful. I can't help wondering if it would have fared better in the Prog with excess splash pages removed.
Quote from: James Stacey on 25 January, 2012, 08:49:36 AM
I guess it comes down to the format it's presented in. [....] I can't help wondering if it would have fared better in the Prog with excess splash pages removed.
This is a habitual Meg problem. Monthly drip-feed badly affected my enjoyment of the Bishop/MacNeil
Fiends follow-up, and
Devlin Waugh: Ride Tide the sequel to
Swimming in Blood, coincidentally also drawn by Colin - so it certainly wasn't the art that was an issue in those cases! These however were doled out in teeny tiny prog-sized chunks, in other words at 1/4 normal speed - presumably the longer episodes of AR are a response to that. It's a pity it doesn't seem to be working for many of you.
It is definitely my experience that the Mills/Langley collaborations work better in collected form. I got quite tired of the
Volgan War series in the Prog, but flicking through the volumes in the shop, they work wonderfully. Ditto the
Books of Invasions, which even as a Sláine fan I became heartily sick of, but which a re-read of the (first) GN has largely redeemed (gratuitous rape aside).
Personally I've enjoyed A.R. Its an attempt to change style and pace of a 2000AD tale. Not much point in saying more as there are so many axes being ground in this tread I doubt even Slaine in full warp-spasm would escape unscathed.
Amazed at the slanging at Clint Langley tho. There are regular prog artists who struggle with basic anatomy who get adored on here yet Langley just seems to attract people who think that sneering at his art is acceptable.
There can be no winners or losers in these sorts of aurguments. The best that can be hoped for is that it passes the time, and that we're not making enemies for life.
Oh, where is the 'Modify/Edit' button?
Arguments, not aurgumentaments....
Quote from: Colin Zeal on 05 January, 2012, 05:43:28 PM
However it really works in AR and the number of panels spread over two pages really helps it in my opinion.
I find that a bit of a nuisance, but then I read a digital version of the Meg. My comic reader will allow for 2 page spreads but all that scrolling left and right takes some of the fun out of reading it.
Anyway. I don't mind American Reaper, although I like it the least in the Meg. I didn't recognise the rock guys, but, much as I like Rock music, I don't really listen to music a lot and I don't know many of the more modern bands. I've heard of the Darkness though, but not the band members faces, and I can't place their music so I don't know if I like them or not. Either way, I think if you're going to put peoples' likenesses into a strip, one rock band is as good as another. It's NOT the Darkness. It just looks like them.
Those double page panels with just the band singing were irritating though. One panel would be enough, then move the story along.
Anyway, I enjoyed the rest of the story. I liked Strange and Darke the most. And yeah, [spoiler]I noticed the masturbating fairy, although I was worried it was just my dirty mind.[/spoiler] I wonder if John Smith has read a certain novel by James Herbert...
QuoteI wonder if John Smith has read a certain novel by James Herbert...
I think Herbert read
Mythago Wood before he wrote
Once...
Here's an end on't:
1) A proper, published graphic novel can be any length it likes and tell the story at any density it likes. You look at how thick it is, look at the price, pays your money and makes your choice.
2) A story in a 22-page monthly, or 6-pages or whatever in a weekly, can clip along and play with the pace and density to quite a wide extent, so long as over that month it's a generally satisfying read. A six-page segment that's All About the Cliffhanger, for example, is perfectly okay, given that the resolution is gonna be coming along quite soon.
3) A monthly publication, selling at like six quid a pop, requires that the material be compressed and encapsulatory, even if it's part of a series. More bang per buck, effectively. It must aspire, at the very least, to have enough density, nuance and ambiguity to be be re-read and reinterpreted over the month until the next one comes out.
4) Twelve pages moving the plot from C to D in a monthly might be permissible is there were any factors that might make the trip a bit more interesting. Yet another sodding frontispiece, then an entire double-page spread of effectively nothing is (almost) literally pissing on the reader with such contempt that one assumes they think it's beer.
These people have pocketed page-rate money with a cynical exercise that cheats the reader who was expecting something good, the publisher who probably thought they were gonna get something good, and the publication that relies on people thinking it might be good. This is my opinion of American Reaper. But then you probably know that anyway.
Hmm. As a reader, i feel i have a right to say this on the official fan forum.
One creator making comments about others, like those of Proper Dave, above, leave a nasty taste in the mouth. If you really think that way, i'd suggest it perhaps more appropriate to discuss it with the editor or publisher away from a public forum- where it just comes across as feintly unhinged ranting. I appreciate you dont like the strip (i do, much more than Armitage, so.) but the personal nature of your comments about Mills and Langley make for very uncomfortable reading.
SBT
You do, of course, realise I was saying that as just a general person who writes stuff wherever I happen to, rather than my secret identity of OMG Man, the Man Who Once Got Paid For Something He Wrote Ever and so Must Be Regarded as Some Inside Authority to Whom You Must Kneel?
Who doesn't actually exist. I wish he did.
Quote from: Hawkmonger on 07 January, 2012, 07:54:24 PM
Quote from: The Cosh on 07 January, 2012, 03:51:55 PM
Also, Inspector Strange and his fabulous bestiary first appeared in a Devlin Waugh story about seven years ago.
Never read any Devlin Waugh.
For clarity then:
Skullduggery Pleasant published in 2007:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skulduggery_Pleasant
Jericho Strange appeared in Meg #227 published January 2005:
http://www.comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=146023
Quote from: Richmond Clements on 05 February, 2012, 05:01:38 PM
QuoteI wonder if John Smith has read a certain novel by James Herbert...
I think Herbert read Mythago Wood before he wrote Once...
And Michael Moorcock has pointed out that
Mythago Wood seems partly inspired by the work of Arthur Machen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Machen), whose work happens to be one of the inspirations for S&D.