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Teaser poster for new episode this Saturday, sadly I won't be watch it as in Amsterdam!

You really didn't miss much then Goaty.

I'm sorry to have to say that that was a very poor episode indeed. An incredibly dull alien invasion, with perhaps one of the most forgettable adversaries in the history of Doctor Who.

The [spoiler]Doctor's use of the sonic screwdrier to save the day[/spoiler] was just the most lazy writing. It is becoming far to much of a crutch for the Doctor.

Only positive I can take from this weeks episode was meeting Lethbridge-Stewart's daughter. I hope we see more of her in the future.

Quote from: Tim Tailz on 22 September, 2012, 08:23:42 PM
Lethbridge-Stewart's daughter. I hope we see more of her in the future.

Indeed.
I also dislike the screwdriver and it needs to be destroyed to make the solutions more inventive (although that will spoil thousands of kids fun if the can't get that toy for Christmas) but I did enjoy the episode - [spoiler]Steven Berkoff[/spoiler] was almost unrecognisable as the alien!

Only one Pond story to go...

We could have had four weeks charting the doctor's exploits in the dalek city on skaro, a daring space race escape, his capture, his survival of the dalek parliament, and his descent into the asylum. Instead we've had a rushed dalek story, and three absolutely pisspoor episodes culminating in tonight's- which must rank among the worst episodes since it came back. Normally i like chris chibnall- he had a cyber fetish queen in heels punch a pteradactyl in the face, man's fine by me- but it's episodes like that where i see why fandom hates him.

Mind you, it was only chibbers trying to write like his paymaster. Free him from the evil cluches of the monobrowed one, and we may see something better.

SBT

I thought it was a terrible mess but I found it very entertaining. I'm always very forgiving of Doctor Who because I remain thrilled that science fiction is prominent in mainstream culture.

Even for me, this one is a stretch, but I'm happy to focus on the good bits: Kate Stewart, Brian, a cool alien, some laughs and the quote [spoiler]"Some died"[/spoiler].

Of course, we all know what's been said about next week's episode. [spoiler]The end of the Ponds, thanks to the weeping aliens.[/spoiler] It makes the end of this week's [spoiler](Brian encouraging Amy and Rory to go with the Doctor, but telling him to take care of them) [/spoiler]all the more effective.

Overall: what a load of pish. I loved it.

I enjoyed most of this episode, but felt the rushed, mawkish ending ruined it.  A quick explanation, a swift wave of the magic wand sonic screwdriver, and everyone lives! Back to normal...

Yeah I agree it all felt rushed. It felt like the first two parts of one of the 'classic' series with an end tacked on in 5 minutes. Shame but fun enough.

Nervous about next week. Could it be an Angel's too far?

Love the conversation between the Doctor and Amy as they sat by the Thames. Smith is quite brilliant.
And yeah, the screwdriver wasn't needed at all at the end. Frantic button pressing would have done the same thing, but that wouldn't remind the children watching of that toy they need to pester their parents for.
And the Brig's daughter was just... wonderful.

Some good dialogue such as the previously mentioned scene between the Dr and Amy at the Thames, some attempts at suspense at least what with the cubes first moving and the countdown and an interesting idea of The Dr being unable to communicate with the threat until the end but yeah- a rushed ending and not a particularly good episode. On learning that the writer is the guy responsible for having

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 22 September, 2012, 08:34:35 PM
a cyber fetish queen in heels punch a pteradactyl in the face

I'm guessing the episode could have been a whole lot worse, however. It's also worth remembering how most series of Dr Who have always been pretty inconsistent in terms of quality and what with the series being only 5 episodes long, it's not like it's outstaying its welcome.

I really believe that the 45 minute episode length is the main problem here. The story needed more time to build atmosphere, resolve things, tie up the (many) loose ends and not have the conclusion feel so hurried and tacked on.  Very predictable 'Humans are great' message, too.  Plus, I don't think I'll ever warm to Matt Smith, but I agree that the inclusion of the Brigadier's daughter was a nice touch.   Who would have thought it ? Me, a committed New Who hater, enjoying two episodes in a row!! :o

I feel the comments here are a bit harsh. It plodded along nicely, had a few jokes and managed to make small black boxes scary to my 3 year old daughter. I watch it with her, just as my parents watched it with me as a child and as an adult I appreciate its family entertainment value.

It is not reasonable to expect every story to be of the same quality as Blink or City Of Death, but it is reasonable to expect family entertainment that challenges young minds not jaded by 30 + years exposure to Sci Fi.

Quote from: WhizzBang on 22 September, 2012, 10:02:24 PM
I feel the comments here are a bit harsh. It plodded along nicely, had a few jokes and managed to make small black boxes scary to my 3 year old daughter. I watch it with her, just as my parents watched it with me as a child and as an adult I appreciate its family entertainment value.

It is not reasonable to expect every story to be of the same quality as Blink or City Of Death, but it is reasonable to expect family entertainment that challenges young minds not jaded by 30 + years exposure to Sci Fi.

Fair points. Hard to argue with that.

I didn't think it was a particularly great episode, but to be fair, it held my attention a lot more than the last couple did. Tried to do too much in the last ten minutes though: definitely in agreement with the anti-screwdriver comments earlier in the thread. Presume the baddie of the piece will be back later in the series? To me, far from feeling typical of the Moffatt era, this one had the most 'Russell T' vibe in quite some time.

Thought it awful, and awfully dull.

A robot girl - unused.

Patients being kidnapped from hospital - unexplained.

What were the things with the probiscus mouths - unknown.

Why drag out the invasion?

Hell, why have the cubes in your cutlery drawer - you couldn't get it closed.

This was a collection of viginettes rather than a story. Some good, some bad, some fun (Henry VIII). It was an attempt, I think, to explain the role of the Doctor in the Ponds' life and vice versa. It failed.

I enjoyed it mostly, nice and spooky. Splendid inclusion of the [spoiler]Brigadier's daughter[/spoiler]. Would agree the end was kind of rushed, I thought I'd fallen asleep for a bit. Also, Pond at the end. Worst ending lines to anything, ever.

Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 22 September, 2012, 11:09:56 PM
Hell, why have the cubes in your cutlery drawer - you couldn't get it closed.

It also looked to me like the council didn't change the bins for nine months either.  :lol:

Watched it on iplayer not very good IMHO. Story was a bit naff and only some sort of Dark Eldar vaguely gleaned my interest. Hope for better next week.

But... but... it had the most CLASSIC WHO ENDING EVER!... The Doctor solved the problem by... reversing the polarity!!

Quote from: Tim Tailz on 22 September, 2012, 11:40:01 PMIt also looked to me like the council didn't change the bins for nine months either.  :lol:

Perhaps that bit was set around here. *grumble*

I almost enjoyed this episode, which is something given who wrote it. But it was a terribly missed opportunity in so many ways, and I was also sick of the worldwide invasion thing during RTD's show-running, and so it was odd to see it back here. In fact, this felt very much like a script that itself came through time, from somewhere around 2007.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 23 September, 2012, 03:31:43 PM
I almost enjoyed this episode, which is something given who wrote it. But it was a terribly missed opportunity in so many ways, and I was also sick of the worldwide invasion thing during RTD's show-running, and so it was odd to see it back here. In fact, this felt very much like a script that itself came through time, from somewhere around 2007.

I know exactly what you mean; as soon as we were getting the clips of news reports I thought "Oh not this again!"
RTD was pushed from the controls of a moving TARDIS for a reason; the BBC are still happy to throw money at Who now because, under Moffat, it's globally a much bigger success than it was under RTD (and in general, the series as a whole have improved greatly)- so why use an episode that could have easily slipped into part of his run? It's safe to say that if RTD hadn't been pushed when he had, the future of the series would right now be facing one of two possibilities- these being
A) Tossed to the Cbeebies schedule or
B) Outright cancellation.
In short- clean it up, Moff! (though if he's been absent for focusing on a quality anniversary year run, I'll hold up my hands and apologize).

Hang on, first RTD proclaimed he was only introducing monsters to sell backpacks, and now he was 'pushed out', meaning sacked, i guess.

No he wasnt.

RTD left dr who to do other stuff (whether any of that has happened is a moot point, his other half's brain tumour may be more important in his life at present). He was not 'pushed out'. Make no mistake- if he'd wanted to be, he' still be showrunner to this day.

SBT

Quote from: WhizzBang on 22 September, 2012, 10:02:24 PM
I feel the comments here are a bit harsh. It plodded along nicely, had a few jokes and managed to make small black boxes scary to my 3 year old daughter. I watch it with her, just as my parents watched it with me as a child and as an adult I appreciate its family entertainment value.

It is not reasonable to expect every story to be of the same quality as Blink or City Of Death, but it is reasonable to expect family entertainment that challenges young minds not jaded by 30 + years exposure to Sci Fi.

I agree with Whizbang. I thought there was plenty of nice little ideas, jokes, and enough pathos to keep a familiar premise interesting. It's been a really strong season so far.

Quote from: MIKE COLLINS on 23 September, 2012, 02:56:46 PM
But... but... it had the most CLASSIC WHO ENDING EVER!... The Doctor solved the problem by... reversing the polarity!!

:thumbsup: :D :thumbsup:

I quite enjoyed that one even though it didn't make much sense. It suffered a bit from 'good set-up, weak pay off' syndrome that's been the bane of Doctor Who ever since it came back.
Next week's looks good although I worry about the Angels getting over-exposed. I think that if they use them again they should be totally abstract Henry Moore sculptures or something.

I agree with SBT in that a longer Dalek story lasting a few weeks would have been the ideal way to go.

Quote from: Trout on 22 September, 2012, 08:37:07 PM

Even for me, this one is a stretch, but I'm happy to focus on the good bits: Kate Stewart, Brian, a cool alien, some laughs and the quote [spoiler]"Some died"[/spoiler].

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob1rYlCpOnM  :lol:

Quote from: Charlie boy on 23 September, 2012, 04:21:11 PM
RTD was pushed from the controls of a moving TARDIS for a reason; the BBC are still happy to throw money at Who now because, under Moffat, it's globally a much bigger success than it was under RTD

That's only partly true, unfortunately. Dr Who makes a huge amount of money for the BBC through toys, DVDs, itunes sales and so on, but they don't seem particularly keen to funnel that money back into the show, which has struggled with budget cuts every year since Moffat took over.

One thing you can say about RTD is he wouldn't have put up with his show getting kicked around the schedules like it has been in the last two years.

The big disappointment for me was the way Chibnall teased that there would be some big fun extras for old fans of UNIT, and, well, we got one character of whose existence the Doctor surely should have been aware, since he'd been keeping tabs on the old man in his nursing home.  I think that this is the fourth time we've seen UNIT in the new show - fifth, counting Sarah Jane Adventures - and they haven't given us a single recurring character in their ranks?  There's a reason everybody remembers Benton and Yates!

There were good moments, and the cubes were creepy, but every so often, Nu-Who does something so massive and over-the-top that you just know a handwave last-minute fix is coming.  One-third of the entire planet's population killed by heart failure?  That's not going to last through the end credits.  It was like the little subtitle at the beginning of "Last of the Time Lords" that read "ONE YEAR LATER."  I just about left the room then, knowing that time was going to be reversed.

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 23 September, 2012, 04:36:40 PM
Hang on, first RTD proclaimed he was only introducing monsters to sell backpacks, and now he was 'pushed out', meaning sacked, i guess.
No he wasnt.
RTD left dr who to do other stuff (whether any of that has happened is a moot point, his other half's brain tumour may be more important in his life at present). He was not 'pushed out'. Make no mistake- if he'd wanted to be, he' still be showrunner to this day.
SBT

Oh no- he introduced the Adipose with their cuddly look and big smiling faces because he was a master storyteller- as he proved with introducing aliens that made farting noises, a confrontation with The Master that had The Master use a sonic gun on The Dr so many times he practically turned into Dobby the house Elf and his big finale with The Dr turning back and forth from The Master to the returned Time Lords with an antique gun as Timothy Dalton (going to waste in that episode) just stood there watching with his gauntlet that could destroy anything. I don't know how his writing sits so comfortably over at Cbeebies.
If he did leave on his own accordance, I apologize for being so harsh on him. I guess even he was willing to admit he was running the show into the ground.

Aaaaand one more on the ignore list.

SBT

Some fantastic moments that belonged in a better show. And some terrible moments that belonged in, well, anywhere but on my telly please.

Smith was fantastic (as ever). 

I bet the writers spent ages thinking whether or not they could get away with such a cheesey final line.

Nobody could.

what mixed bag of a episode, all too rushed and shoehorned in, and i just can't get passed the 'I'll have you away for a night and back before anyone notices', however the Dr doesn't nip into the future to see how the black boxes work out and what the solution to them is?

Shirley if you have limitless spot-on time travel you know how it all ends? That was a reason the TARDIS used to malfuntion and pertwee was stranded.

On a positive note the Thames scene was well done, just wish there was that empathy between Pond and her husband. 

Isn't there some timelord rule that stops him from doing that?  Or actually a writers rule otherwise he'd do that every week and we'd have fuck all show.

The way they've played it from RTD onwards is that time is malleable, apart from certain 'fixed' points that cannot be changed. So although The Doctor could see how things end, him going back and affecting things would (or at least might) change how that plays out. Also, it's noted more than once that messing about in your own time stream (at least in terms of direct interaction) is a really bad idea.

I think its as Tips says, 'writers rule' nothing else, does the old 'don't Kill your own grandfather' rule work for the future too? haven't they went into the past in the knowledge of the outcome: Killing Hitler?
couldn't they go forwards look at the history books see the solution and nip back and apply it?
like looking at a DVD of the Blink episode and saying the solution in the first five minutes when its repeated, why have a timemachine and only use it selectively? apart from spoiling the story

after all, it's all in the Doctors timestream

Proudhuff, they actually covered that way back in Pyramids of Mars.  If the Doctor tries to run from a fight that he's in the middle of, he screws up the future.  By being part of history, he has to see it through.  We can extrapolate from other events that the rule is that he can't go *forward* in time.

The books, following on from a plot point in Battlefield, used to have the Doctor help himself manipulate complex adventures to his advantage by going back afterward and leaving himself notes.  There's a great book by Paul Cornell where the Doctor shows up somewhere and a time-traveling enemy who knows this tactic and destroys all the notes from the future Doctor before the present Doctor can find them.  He quits doing that afterward, but the very popular episode Blink revisited the idea somewhat, by having Sally Sparrow give the Doctor the "cheat code" in advance of his meeting the Angels for the first time.

Quote from: Grant Goggans on 24 September, 2012, 06:50:41 PM
Proudhuff, they actually covered that way back in Pyramids of Mars.  If the Doctor tries to run from a fight that he's in the middle of, he screws up the future.  By being part of history, he has to see it through.  We can extrapolate from other events that the rule is that he can't go *forward* in time.

The books, following on from a plot point in Battlefield, used to have the Doctor help himself manipulate complex adventures to his advantage by going back afterward and leaving himself notes.  There's a great book by Paul Cornell where the Doctor shows up somewhere and a time-traveling enemy who knows this tactic and destroys all the notes from the future Doctor before the present Doctor can find them.  He quits doing that afterward, but the very popular episode Blink revisited the idea somewhat, by having Sally Sparrow give the Doctor the "cheat code" in advance of his meeting the Angels for the first time.

There was also a short story (cannot for the life of me remember the name of it, what it was in or who wrote it) with the great idea of later Doctors travelling back to the sites of previous adventures before the older Doctor had had an adventure there, and manipulating the locals, thus making them more open to following the Doctor when he eventually turns up for the adventure.

Did not like that at all.  No narrative logic, terrible rushed explanation, and the return of all the sort of stuff that Moffat's been dismantling over the past few series, right down to the return of the Doctor's God complex.  Good villain idea, but terrible execution.  Liked the Brigadier's daughter and some of the Smith/Gillan interaction, but that was about it.

like so many stories, it had a strong premise and loads of cool bits in it, but it's like they get half way through and realise they've only got 20 minutes left, with a huge story to resolve; so they race at breakneck speed with implausible leaps and much sonic-waving, louder music and shoutier emoting, and then BANG it's over.

Whatever happened to the BBC's obsession with streaming programmes every night over a week? Seemed for a while they were doing it to everything, and it used to bug me, but think of the possibilities of a 5 x 25min storyline?

Well I didnt mind that one, probaly weakest of the season so far.  As everyone has already said the main mystery was a bit drab (not the idea just the payoff) but i loved the interplay between the Doctor and his companions, i'm gonna miss those two when they're done.  I actually got a very R T Davies feel from the episode what with the fatherly involvement and emotion, the world wide invasion told via news reports style all Davies tropes.  I'd say i'm one of the rare Who fans  (not rabid fan but i think i've probably seen almost every episode since Bakers years) who generally can enjoy any of the new Who Davies or Moffat it all has its highs and lows but its all great family entertainment and i think thats its key. 
Looking forward to next weeks as well always like to catch up with River.

CU Radbacker

Forgot to mention that the guy playing Shakri in this was...

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000925/ (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000925/)

Currently, or at least until very recently, as it's just ended, was playing a mad heretical monk in The Borgias. Looks incredibly like Rutger Hauer in that main pic.

:lol: Looking at his past, he was also Victor Maitland in Beverly Hills Cop and the bad guy in Octopussy!

Quote from: Richmond Clements on 24 September, 2012, 08:31:04 PM

Quote from: Grant Goggans on 24 September, 2012, 06:50:41 PM
Proudhuff, they actually covered that way back in Pyramids of Mars.  If the Doctor tries to run from a fight that he's in the middle of, he screws up the future.  By being part of history, he has to see it through.  We can extrapolate from other events that the rule is that he can't go *forward* in time.

The books, following on from a plot point in Battlefield, used to have the Doctor help himself manipulate complex adventures to his advantage by going back afterward and leaving himself notes.  There's a great book by Paul Cornell where the Doctor shows up somewhere and a time-traveling enemy who knows this tactic and destroys all the notes from the future Doctor before the present Doctor can find them.  He quits doing that afterward, but the very popular episode Blink revisited the idea somewhat, by having Sally Sparrow give the Doctor the "cheat code" in advance of his meeting the Angels for the first time.

There was also a short story (cannot for the life of me remember the name of it, what it was in or who wrote it) with the great idea of later Doctors travelling back to the sites of previous adventures before the older Doctor had had an adventure there, and manipulating the locals, thus making them more open to following the Doctor when he eventually turns up for the adventure.

now why can't those books be made into episodes? sounds far more... entertaining? that the whole river/pond stream  :D

I watched this last night. I quite enjoyed it myself, I like the addition of Mark Williams as Rory's dad. However, the last 10 minutes or so were a total let down. "What? It's finished!? But? How? What?"
What a crap and rushed ending!

More Francavilla goodness

http://francesco-francavilla.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/doctor-who-power-of-three-ep704.html (http://francesco-francavilla.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/doctor-who-power-of-three-ep704.html)

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 28 September, 2012, 02:13:40 PM
More Francavilla goodness

http://francesco-francavilla.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/doctor-who-power-of-three-ep704.html (http://francesco-francavilla.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/doctor-who-power-of-three-ep704.html)

Love that one!

Quote from: Richmond Clements on 24 September, 2012, 08:31:04 PM

Quote from: Grant Goggans on 24 September, 2012, 06:50:41 PM
Proudhuff, they actually covered that way back in Pyramids of Mars.  If the Doctor tries to run from a fight that he's in the middle of, he screws up the future.  By being part of history, he has to see it through.  We can extrapolate from other events that the rule is that he can't go *forward* in time.

The books, following on from a plot point in Battlefield, used to have the Doctor help himself manipulate complex adventures to his advantage by going back afterward and leaving himself notes.  There's a great book by Paul Cornell where the Doctor shows up somewhere and a time-traveling enemy who knows this tactic and destroys all the notes from the future Doctor before the present Doctor can find them.  He quits doing that afterward, but the very popular episode Blink revisited the idea somewhat, by having Sally Sparrow give the Doctor the "cheat code" in advance of his meeting the Angels for the first time.

There was also a short story (cannot for the life of me remember the name of it, what it was in or who wrote it) with the great idea of later Doctors travelling back to the sites of previous adventures before the older Doctor had had an adventure there, and manipulating the locals, thus making them more open to following the Doctor when he eventually turns up for the adventure.

That sounds like it could be "Continuity Errors" by Steven Moffat, the very first Who-related thing he wrote all the way back in 1996. One of the characters from it has since made a cameo on screen, in "Let's Kill Hitler" I believe.