Hellblazer is ending at issue number 300 but the character of Constantine will be used in DC Universe title, called simply, Constantine:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/constantine-relaunch-dc-comics.html (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/constantine-relaunch-dc-comics.html)
and reactions from creators on Twitter:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/industry-reacts-hellblazer-cancelation.html (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/industry-reacts-hellblazer-cancelation.html)
Gah...
I was no fan of Milligans stint, but I had always assumed a new creative team would've taken over after issue 300, and that I would pick it up again someday.
Shame really.
'Constantine' is probably doomed to fail. And rightly so.
Quote from: Link Prime on 08 November, 2012, 08:02:18 PM
'Constantine' is probably doomed to fail. And rightly so.
Oh, no question. Probably followed by some lame 'event' ressurection/reboot of Hellblazer, having pissed all over the heritage of a 300-issue unbroken run. Fuck off, DC.
Hellblazer is the only DC title I purchase. Now there will be none. Bastards.
I buy the trades but rarely pick up the monthly and I'm not impressed that there will soon be no more.
I bloody hate reboots. DC have already knacked up Jonah Hex and are now doing it to the only other character I care about.
To be slightly fair to DC, Hellblazer's been selling less than 10,000 copies a month for some considerable time now, and I suspect that it's only its historic nature and reputation as the Vertigo flagship that stopped it being cancelled before now.
However, folding the character into the mainstream DCU with the attendant compromises that will require is a commercial decision that pisses all over the character creatively. I would have much preferred Hellblazer to move to standalone minis or self-contained GNs where high profile teams could take turns trying do something really special with Constantine's particular brand of horror.
I wouldn't be remotely surprised if Vertigo is gone completely within the next year or so...
How thoroughly depressing.
Bah.
Jim
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 08 November, 2012, 08:17:04 PM
Probably followed by some lame 'event' ressurection/reboot of Hellblazer...
I'm not so sure, ending the flagship title of Vertigo makes me wonder about how long is left in the old horse. New titles announced by them just sound like they are following trends instead of making them; For example, Collider, Vertigo's action scientists comic, by the time this is released it will be competing against The Manhattan Projects, Nowhere Men and Think Tank from Image Comics. The Wake, a marine sci-fi comic from Scott Snyder and Sean Murphy, will be up against The Massive from Dark Horse and The Great Pacific from Image. Vampires are in? Lets release American Vampire. Zombies are in? New Deadwardians.
Also on a side note, when should have Hellblazer really ended if the character was supposed to age in real time as the series progressed?
And Jim Campbell pips me in my arguments! Goalsnatcher! :lol:
Ah, shite. I always thought 'Constantine' would be a better name for than Hellblazer, but.. he'll be missed. A DC Universe version just isn't half as cool. I suppose he must be ancient now anyway, given the Dredd-like real-time aspect of Hellblazer; but that's demon blood for you
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 08 November, 2012, 08:42:02 PMI wouldn't be remotely surprised if Vertigo is gone completely within the next year or so...
When discussion turns to how utterly knacked DC is these days, doesn't pretty much everyone offer the proviso that "Vertigo books don't count"? I can't help but think that dissolving that Chinese wall between Vertigo and 'regular' DC would have the effect of making Preacher, Sandman, Hellblazer/Constantine, etcetera a part of the regular DC roster and allow the current administration to claim sole credit for books they had nothing to do with.
Although don't get me wrong - the likes of Image, IDW and Dark Horse have actually made Vertigo irrelevant for years now, as they support much lower sales levels for titles than Vertigo would.
I'll miss it. Are people really not digging the Milligan run? It seems like one of the better and more distinctive post-Ennis Hellblazer runs, particularly the issues where Bisley has been on art.
IIRC it was the longest running DC comic without a rename or renumbering. I guess some double digit title takes the crown now.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 08 November, 2012, 08:42:02 PMI wouldn't be remotely surprised if Vertigo is gone completely within the next year or so...
What a Crock. Vertigo has itself a dynamite line up right now I'm reading more Vertigo titles then I ever have. And though
Hellblazer goes off into the sunset,
Fables is still roaring along. So Vertigo still has a tent-pole series.
As long as they keep putting out books as good as
Punk Rock Jesus and
Saucer Country they ain't going anywhere.
Quote from: The Adventurer on 09 November, 2012, 06:59:56 AM
As long as they keep putting out books as good as Punk Rock Jesus and Saucer Country they ain't going anywhere.
*shrug* I'd be delighted to be proved wrong, but I hear persistent mutterings that Didio feels rather differently about Vertigo.
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 09 November, 2012, 08:21:44 AM
*shrug* I'd be delighted to be proved wrong, but I hear persistent mutterings that Didio feels rather differently about Vertigo.
How many summer blockbusters has Vertigo given us, hmmm? How many theme park attractions? How many hit video games or TV series? Comics exist to fuel other more profitable ventures, Vertigo doesn't - Fantagraphics have a better record in that line. That's where your bottom line is, not 10,000 lousy copies.
Bugger! I've been buying this since it started.
I moved down to London in 1987 with everything I owned in a rucksack. One of my priorities besides finding a job or somewhere to live was to early visit to Forbidden Planet on Denmark Street. I remember picking up issue 1 and an issue of Dark Knight Returns. Nice to now I still have the same priorities.
Terrible, terrible idea. Constantine is a cruel bastard living in a world of all-too-human evil and sleaze. That's where he works best. His JLA Dark incarnation is bad enough - neutering him completely for the New-52 is just a waste of a great character.
Will we be seeing any characters going the other way? A Superman Vertigo title where he swears like a trooper and kills people with his super powered jism?
"Dear Vertigo editors..."
Quote from: GordyM on 09 November, 2012, 10:54:49 AM
Will we be seeing any characters going the other way? A Superman Vertigo title where he swears like a trooper and kills people ....?
"Dear Vertigo editors..."
Yeah imagine if they did that with other characters like Batman... oh....
Quote from: GordyM on 09 November, 2012, 10:54:49 AM
Will we be seeing any characters going the other way? A Superman Vertigo title where he swears like a trooper and kills people with his super powered jism?
"Dear Vertigo editors..."
That sounds like fun. What if Kal El got found by Mr Crowley instead of the Kents.
Quote from: TordelBack on 09 November, 2012, 10:34:12 AM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 09 November, 2012, 08:21:44 AM
*shrug* I'd be delighted to be proved wrong, but I hear persistent mutterings that Didio feels rather differently about Vertigo.
How many summer blockbusters has Vertigo given us, hmmm? How many theme park attractions? How many hit video games or TV series? Comics exist to fuel other more profitable ventures, Vertigo doesn't - Fantagraphics have a better record in that line. That's where your bottom line is, not 10,000 lousy copies.
Human Target was credited onscreen every week as based on the "Vertigo graphic novels" and the DC logo only appeared at the very, very end of the closing credits. Constantine had the Vertigo logo more prominently than the DC one - if at all - on many posters and the spin-off videogame covers (and it appeared at the start of the movie), and almost all of the Vertigo titles are - or have been - in some sort of development deal already for movie, tv show or videogame adaptations, a state of affairs not shared by the DCU roster even though they are both owned by a company with its own movie, tv and videogame arms, and the last reboot tried to movie-fy every DC property not nailed down to make them more attractive to adapt.
Plus, there is the small matter of industry insiders like Jim Shooter claiming to have seen DC's accounts and saying the company hasn't turned an actual legit profit in the last ten years through their comic books, which, if true, means that actual profit is less important than that huge list of attractive IPs that would generate a hell of lot of bragging rights for anyone trying to convince people their company wasn't deep in the shitter both creatively and financially.
Quote from: Professah Byah on 09 November, 2012, 02:08:39 PMsaying the company hasn't turned an actual legit profit in the last ten years through their comic books
Which would make their decision to shut down their animation operation -- the only part of the entire DC enterprise to maintain a consistent level of quality and critical/fan approval*-- even more baffling.
Cheers
Jim
*I'm putting the Nolan Bat-films down as an aberration in their otherwise piss-poor judgement when getting movies made of their IP.
Quote from: The Adventurer on 09 November, 2012, 06:59:56 AMWhat a Crock. Vertigo has itself a dynamite line up right now I'm reading more Vertigo titles then I ever have.
You may be, but look at the amount of Vertigo titles in recent solicitations compared to a few years ago.
Quote from: Ancient Otter on 09 November, 2012, 03:13:48 PM
You may be, but look at the amount of Vertigo titles in recent solicitations compared to a few years ago.
A number of people on other forums have also commented on the rapidly dwindling number of ongoing titles in favour of limited/mini series.
I find myself wondering whether JC's move to the mainstream DCU might see Constantine 2 extricate itself from Production Hell...
Cheers
Jim
I think at a certain level the influence of DC as a corporate entity stops, and I think movies are definately above their pay grade - much as they would prefer otherwise. Looking at the cheap-ass OVAs they've been turning out the last few years would suggest this is a good thing.
Quote from: Professah Byah on 09 November, 2012, 02:08:39 PM
Human Target was credited onscreen every week as based on the "Vertigo graphic novels" ... Constantine had the Vertigo logo more prominently than the DC one..
I'd never heard of the former (which means nothing, the things I haven't heard of would fill Lucien's library), and the latter while fairly inoffensive was hardly a triumph, and isn't
everything in development all the time these days, but still, fair play, I was underselling. However, we're not talking Avengers, Dark Knight, Walking Dead or even ruddy Ghost World here, and surely that's where the goalposts of expectation are for your in-house comics lines?
Look, I'm not knocking Vertigo, I nearly had to build an annex to the attic to contain what I love of their output, and I would far prefer to see Hellblazer and stablemates continue, but what role does it really have as an imprint when the Joker is cutting his own face off while Catman and Batman get off with their masks on over in the 'mainstream line', not to mention Swampie and Animal Man?
Quote from: TordelBack on 09 November, 2012, 04:05:18 PMLook, I'm not knocking Vertigo, I nearly had to build an annex to the attic to contain what I love of their output, and I would far prefer to see Hellblazer and stablemates continue, but what role does it really have as an imprint when the Joker is cutting his own face off while Catman and Batman get off with their masks on over in the 'mainstream line', not to mention Swampie and Animal Man?
We will just have to wait and see how toned down the Occult & Horror aspect is in Constantine compared to Hellblazer. And for sex and masks, I'm guessing it was tame compared to The Extremist...
Quote from: TordelBack on 09 November, 2012, 04:05:18 PMwhat role does it really have as an imprint when the Joker is cutting his own face off while Catman and Batman get off with their masks on over in the 'mainstream line', not to mention Swampie and Animal Man?
That says more about the juvenile excess of DC than it does the relevance or otherwise of Vertigo. Vertigo allows creators to tell stories like Preacher, Saucer Country, Y The Last Man, 100 Bullets, etc, that don't have one foot in the same universe as Superman as Swamp Thing, Animal Man and Doom Patrol already do. It's a haven for creator-owned books aimed at a mainstream audience and the legacy and reputation it has means that Vertigo is the first stop for creators. There are far more options to publish a weirdo title these days in the North American comic book market - many of them much more attractive and fair - than Vertigo, but Vertigo as a brand has cache with creators that IDW, Image or Dark Horse doesn't.
Vertigo arguably doesn't deserve its reputation these days, but it still has one. DC can't really say the same.
Quote from: Professah Byah on 09 November, 2012, 05:39:45 PM
That says more about the juvenile excess of DC than it does the relevance or otherwise of Vertigo.
Yeah. I was just thinking that. I can see how DC might be thinking "Our comics are grown up now, why do we need Vertigo?" but that line of thinking only works if you can't see the difference between Batman and Catwoman fucking in costume and, say, any single page from Enigma.
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 09 November, 2012, 08:21:41 PM
Quote from: Professah Byah on 09 November, 2012, 05:39:45 PM
That says more about the juvenile excess of DC than it does the relevance or otherwise of Vertigo.
Yeah. I was just thinking that. I can see how DC might be thinking "Our comics are grown up now, why do we need Vertigo?" but that line of thinking only works if you can't see the difference between Batman and Catwoman fucking in costume and, say, any single page from Enigma.
Absolutely, and just to be clear, the point I was meandering around was the likely perspective of DC senior management. I do value Vertigo greatly a an imprint (although suggestions that Preacher is anything more than 'juvenile excess' itself will be strongly resisted!), I just fear that TPTB are unlikely to feel the same way.
Welp, there goes twenty-five years of character development we'll never get back.
Quote from: GordyM on 09 November, 2012, 10:54:49 AM
Will we be seeing any characters going the other way? A Superman Vertigo title where he swears like a trooper and kills people with his super powered jism?
When I asked my Dad why Superman had to lose his powers before marrying Lois Lane in the second film, he replied by telling me that sex between them would have proven fatal for her. He had his answer all ready to go, so obviously the properties of Kryptonian spunk and the RPM of Kal-el's arse have fascinated generations of males. Has anyone considered the possibility that the destruction of Krypton was the result of a circle jerk by Jor-el and the ruling council?
Quote from: CLOUDMAN on 09 November, 2012, 10:24:33 PM
Welp, there goes twenty-five years of character development we'll never get back.
Quote from: CLOUDMAN on 09 November, 2012, 10:24:33 PM
Welp, there goes twenty-five years of character development they can never take away from us
I won't say FTFY - but this is more my view
Quote from: Dandontdare on 09 November, 2012, 11:03:25 PM
Quote from: CLOUDMAN on 09 November, 2012, 10:24:33 PM
Welp, there goes twenty-five years of character development we'll never get back.
Quote from: CLOUDMAN on 09 November, 2012, 10:24:33 PM
Welp, there goes twenty-five years of character development they can never take away from us
I won't say FTFY - but this is more my view
I was a bit quick to comment negatively really - all that stuff still exists, you're absolutely right.
But at the same time it is definitely a shame to see it thrown away for the sake of a clean slate on a run that more than likely won't even last 1/4 of the original's duration.
Quote from: sauchie on 09 November, 2012, 11:00:54 PMHe had his answer all ready to go, so obviously the properties of Kryptonian spunk and the RPM of Kal-el's arse have fascinated generations of males.
Indeed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_of_Steel,_Woman_of_Kleenex
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_of_Steel,_Woman_of_Kleenex)
Quote from: sauchie on 09 November, 2012, 11:00:54 PM
Has anyone considered the possibility that the destruction of Krypton was the result of a circle jerk by Jor-el and the ruling council?
Your father would be ashamed of your lack of logical analysis on this point.
Quote from: TordelBack on 10 November, 2012, 03:50:58 PM
Quote from: sauchie on 09 November, 2012, 11:00:54 PMHe had his answer all ready to go, so obviously the properties of Kryptonian spunk and the RPM of Kal-el's arse have fascinated generations of males.
Indeed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_of_Steel,_Woman_of_Kleenex
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_of_Steel,_Woman_of_Kleenex)
Brilliant. I don't want to further derail this thread, so I'll post my response on the Supes one. I read and enjoyed
Hellblazer from Delano to Ennis, but not much I've heard about it since made me think I should give it another go. Still sad to see the title go, but if you're a fan of the character rather than the writers and artists you've always got the DCU version.
So do you think they'll keep the trench coat or go for a full spandex JC?
Black and red rubber bodysuit, with those little join-lines that are so popular since Bryan Hitch drew them on The Ultimates that even Superman and Batman have them now- along with a close-fitting 'helmet of destiny', or similar. His superhero codename will be 'The Hellblazer'.
SBT
Quote from: AndyLee on 12 November, 2012, 09:24:41 PM
So do you think they'll keep the trench coat or go for a full spandex JC?
You could argue that the mannerisms of Moore and Delano's John Constantine work, which were adopted by so many of the Vertigo titles which followed (in the same way all superheroes tend to be variations on Superman) became just as tired, formulaic and over familiar as spandex and secret identities.
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 13 November, 2012, 08:40:39 AMthose little join-lines
They're called "seams", grandad, and they are the hottest thing in 2001.
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 13 November, 2012, 08:40:39 AM
Black and red rubber bodysuit, with those little join-lines that are so popular since Bryan Hitch drew them on The Ultimates that even Superman and Batman have them now- along with a close-fitting 'helmet of destiny', or similar. His superhero codename will be 'The Hellblazer'.
SBT
...plus a utility belt for fags, more fags, lighter, more fags.
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 13 November, 2012, 08:40:39 AM
Black and red rubber bodysuit, with those little join-lines that are so popular since Bryan Hitch drew them on The Ultimates that even Superman and Batman have them now- along with a close-fitting 'helmet of destiny', or similar. His superhero codename will be 'The Hellblazer'.
SBT
At a Neil Gaiman reading once, he said that some producers had sent him the umpteenth potential Sandman movie script which began with the line "Cower mortals, before the might of The Sandman" He never got to page 2.
Just having read Animal Man #14, 'Rotworld: The Red Kingdom part 2', it should be noted that Constantine has been off the fags for over a year within the narrative (ie since the start of Rotworld he's not been able to get any) and some big horned monster bloke allied with The Red explicitely refers to him as "Hellblazer". So, there you go. I was wondering how long it'd be before he lost the snouts- not exactly in the best interests of warner brothers to have major teen comic hero smoking tabs.
On the plus side, in the next issue: well, no spoilers, but you wouldnt get that in Hellblazer and it left me with a huge, stupid grin.
SBT
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 14 November, 2012, 10:04:38 PMOn the plus side, in the next issue: well, no spoilers, but you wouldnt get that in Hellblazer and it left me with a huge, stupid grin.
Never knew you were a Smallville fan, SBT.
With Vertigo not the force it used to be it'll be interesting what to see what 2000AD & other British creators use to break into the US comics market too.
Quote from: Ancient Otter on 15 November, 2012, 08:48:35 PM
With Vertigo not the force it used to be it'll be interesting what to see what 2000AD & other British creators use to break into the US comics market too.
Creator owned. All the interesting stuff on kickstarter probably eats into Vertigo's sales a bit too.
Hellblazer was like Woolworths really. Everyone has warm feelings towards it, used to go there all the time, but times change. In principle its a great idea to have a separate universe for Hellblazer, a freedom that gave us some of the greatest comics ever (Delano and Carey delivering my personal favourites). But cycles of renewal and rebirth are key to the comics business. I'm a stupidly optimistic person (and I choose those words precisely) which means I honestly believe there's no reason why some comic writing genius, British of otherwise, can't come in and write some mindblowingly good DCU Constantine. And if they don't, well so be it. In five years time it'll be exciting to launch him (or someone similar) back into his own universe again, and so it goes on...
Quote from: Montynero on 15 November, 2012, 09:02:14 PMI'm a stupidly optimistic person (and I choose those words precisely)there's no reason why some comic writing genius, British of otherwise, can't come in and write some mindblowingly good DCU Constantine.
Yes there is - the current DC editorial environment -as opposed to the smaller and more creator-friendly Vertigo editorial team - is hostile to creative talent and upper management, populated as it is with ex-interns and fanboys who have very definite opinions what should be done with books and assert that creative vision whenever they can, safe in the knowledge that sooner or later (usually sooner*), anyone who doesn't agree with their input will move on while their management positions remain safe because, well, you're not going to fire someone for doing
their job, are you? DC certainly aren't, and the result is that the only people who stay in place no matter what creative shake-ups happen are the people who are causing the decline in quality and exodus of talent in the first place.
Alan Grant had a frank thing or two to say about this back when it first started to become an issue at the company, citing how he and other writers were sacked for arguing with sub-editors' decisions about what should happen in the comics on the not-unreasonable grounds that writers are the ones who should be coming up with stories. He describes a backbiting culture of glorified secretaries going behind the backs of both talent and their own bosses to get their way. Say what you like about Dan DiDio, but the guy's got the patience of a saint to still be trying to make comics at DC. Me, I know it's only comics, like, but that kind of office culture would have me chucking some cunt out a window if I was working there.
* Nick Spencer's Supergirl run is probably the best example of this, as he lasted all of half an issue before he quit and never returned to the company.
Quote from: Professah Byah on 15 November, 2012, 11:49:05 PMMe, I know it's only comics, like, but that kind of office culture would have me chucking some cunt out a window if I was working there.
Ha, I had a great mental image of the 2000AD editorial office being like The Thick of It.
Not sure why they didn't just kill of the character altogether. Would have caused quite a shock and probably garnered a lot of press attention. Maybe Milligan will do just that in his final issue, who knows.
It would be great if DC/Vertigo (RIP) started doing proper, numbered omnibus collections of Hellblazer and just go through the entire run. Vertigo are usually pretty good at this with every other series they've published; not sure why Constantine didn't get the same level of care but the collections over the years have always been patchy and unfinished.
Quote from: PreacherCain on 16 November, 2012, 01:14:44 AM
It would be great if DC/Vertigo (RIP) started doing proper, numbered omnibus collections of Hellblazer and just go through the entire run. Vertigo are usually pretty good at this with every other series they've published; not sure why Constantine didn't get the same level of care but the collections over the years have always been patchy and unfinished.
As it happens, I was in FP this very evening and number 4 has just been released.
If Vertigo goes I don't see anywhere else in DC for stuff like Scalped or Northlanders. Which is a shame.
Quote from: The Cosh on 16 November, 2012, 01:36:14 AM
Quote from: PreacherCain on 16 November, 2012, 01:14:44 AM
It would be great if DC/Vertigo (RIP) started doing proper, numbered omnibus collections of Hellblazer and just go through the entire run. Vertigo are usually pretty good at this with every other series they've published; not sure why Constantine didn't get the same level of care but the collections over the years have always been patchy and unfinished.
As it happens, I was in FP this very evening and number 4 has just been released.
If Vertigo goes I don't see anywhere else in DC for stuff like Scalped or Northlanders. Which is a shame.
Ah, I stand corrected. Bit late really, they should have done this ten years ago, might have had more people picking up the monthly had they chosen to run a more consistent trade collection. Seems to work well enough for Image. Though not so much for Fables, so who knows!
As for stuff like Scalped and Northlanders, it seems like even Vertigo haven't been able to get new ongoing series up and running over the last few years. Not to mention that a lot of those creators don't seem very interested in working for DC Entertainment anymore. I guess the bigger names will go for Image now that they have some page rate deals, while folks like Dark Horse (are they fucked now if they lose Star Wars?!), Avatar, Dynamite, IDW etc. seem to be able to get a few decent names to work with them too.
Professor Byah: I understand the wisdom of your point of view. I'm just optimistic. Sure, optimism often proves unfounded, but that's all part of taking a sunny outlook. It seems to me that many of the truly great comics in history are created through the sheer bloodymindedness and inspiration of a couple of people. They just decide, against all the odds and prevailing wisdom, to make something wonderful. That's the magic of comics.
If you want to be optimistic, DCs owners are going through a massive internal power struggle at the minute and part of the argument is the state of DC and why, with all of AOL Time Warner's resources at their disposal and two decades' worth of a head start on a company that owned Spider-Man and X-Men and still went bankrupt, DC aren't where Marvel are right now. I know we don't rate our little hobby too highly on the scale of importance, but moneymen are not unreasonably asking why Marvel has gone from being worth less than nothing to worth 4 billion dollars in the space of ten years, while the guys who own Superman and Batman are in still the red - that DC is such a car-wreck has become a genuine point of concern and things will either get a hell of a lot worse after the dust settles from the Bruce Rosenblum/Kevin Tsujihara/Jeff Robinov power struggle at the top of WB, or they'll get a hell of a lot better.
Interesting snippet buried in this Brian Wood Star Wars interview (http://www.nerdist.com/2012/12/exclusive-a-sneak-peek-at-brian-woods-star-wars-and-more/): DC are actively spiking attempts to get Vertigo titles made into TV series. Wood claims that an AMC-produced version of DMZ was nixed from on-high.
Kinda defeats the point of taking your "creator-owned" book to Vertigo if your own publishers are going to torpedo any chance of a Walking Dead-style jackpot, doesn't it?
Cheers
Jim
A cynical man might almost suggest they were trying to devalue the Vertigo brand as a multimedia concern for some crazy reason, but that would be silly.
Say, does anyone remember Marvel's post-bankruptcy years when those counting the beans decided to fire the guy who'd run the company into the ground because he was making more or less the same mistakes as always whilst also alienating talent and causing an exodus to the company's biggest rival, so they appointed someone from Marvel's most successful imprint to run the main company because of that person's proven track record of success, talent management, and ability to produce high-profile books that raised that company's profile?
And Karen Berger was just run out of town, you say?
It'd be really interesting to hear the other side of the coin there and the reasoning behind that. From the outside, without all the facts it appears a crazy and counter intuitive decision.
With DC apparently kicking Gail Simone off Batgirl (and one assumes out this point out the door too?), again without both sides the story mind, those that didn't realise or appreciate what Paul Levitz did at DC, for all his conservatism, must surely be regretting his departure more and more.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 10 December, 2012, 08:27:48 AM
It'd be really interesting to hear the other side of the coin there and the reasoning behind that. From the outside, without all the facts it appears a crazy and counter intuitive decision.
The current DC administration is obsessed with making employees and freelancers alike sign NDAs, so we won't be hearing a truly inside take on events anytime soon, which will, I imagine, prompt conspiracy theories like mine to continue to appear*, fuelled by things like Wood's departure from DC and their shrinking creative roster.
QuoteWith DC apparently kicking Gail Simone off Batgirl (and one assumes out this point out the door too?)
I gave up on trying to discern DC's plans for Batgirl around the time they cancelled the book - despite it outselling Wonder Woman - and folded the main character into the lower-selling Robin title as a villain.
All the same, ditching Simone seems bonkers as she's one of the few writers at DC to have both critical and fan support.
* In defence of that theory, though, the guy who ran Marvel into bankruptcy as EiC is the
current EiC of DC comics. Spoooooooky.
I seem to remember something about WB not being happy with the older Vertigo contracts because it gave the creators more control of media rights for film and television adaptations and would allow for them to take that property outside of WB. Meaning WB wouldn't make any money from any adaptation if the creator wanted to go with, say, Disney or someone like that.
WB are in the comics business for the intellectual property rights. They're not overly concerned if the comic is good or bad, it just needs to be open to expansion into other, more profitable, mediums.
Pretty much everything about Vertigo we've been chewing over here consolidated into one thoroughly depressing read. (http://www.full-stop.net/2012/12/14/blog/sam-costello/karen-berger-and-the-end-of-the-beginning-of-the-graphic-novel/)
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 21 December, 2012, 07:37:34 AM
Pretty much everything about Vertigo we've been chewing over here consolidated into one thoroughly depressing read. (http://www.full-stop.net/2012/12/14/blog/sam-costello/karen-berger-and-the-end-of-the-beginning-of-the-graphic-novel/)
Cheers
Jim
Good read Jim, thanks.
Bizarrely, on the same day that I made my last post on this thread, this article (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/12/21/dc-vertigo-promotions-bob-harass-hank-kanalz/) appeared and seems to have gone largely unnoticed (by me, at any rate). At this point, it's hard to know what it means but separating Vertigo from the direct management of Bob Harras may prove to be a good sign...
At the end of the day it all goes up through Jim and Dan so you do wonder how much will really change?
A more negative take on it might also be that Vertigo is now seen as the added extra onto some senior executive's portfolio, the thing they don't quite know what to do with.
The positive take it that since he's improved digital and (apparently) maybe he's seen as a man who can grow the brand back given autonomy and revitalise it.
The neutral take (well kinda) is that aligning Vertigo with the digital arm means they might be trying more innovative ways of getting its product out there as DC see that being where Vertigo's market is shifting to.
So in other words 'I dunno nowt me.'
Everything that Vertigo was doing in the 90s is now being done by Image and the creators get a much better deal.
I can't see Vertigo ever having the impact on the stands that it once did.
The thing is that as well as being 'adult' or 'dark' Vertigo was almost a seal of quality in the very early days, meaning punters were much more likely to give something a go sight unseen.
Unfortunately the brand was diluted by lots of crappy mini-series and unsatisfying pseudo-intellectual guff.
If it's going to claw back some credibility Vertigo needs a group editor with Tharg like levels of authority and a high standard of quality and value.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 14 February, 2013, 11:57:19 AMThe neutral take (well kinda) is that aligning Vertigo with the digital arm means they might be trying more innovative ways of getting its product out there as DC see that being where Vertigo's market is shifting to.
I don't really see that kind of shift for Vertigo, as their graphic novel side of things is doing very well and given that modest sales of floppies and an audience of trade waiters is seen as a part of that, I don't see anyone seriously pushing for a major paradigm change in their business model. Most likely it's just a move to keep a sub-division healthy by moving it to its own little corner of the office away from any kind of pissing contests among management, a not-unheard of move in the entertainment business where successful tv shows with backroom strife get shifted to their own production offices to stop people walking in the door and giving themselves producer jobs. I suspect Karen Berger's "amicable" exit might have been a wake-up call to someone.
I've not idea and you make some good points Thunders McQueen, I do however wonder if you reflect on what JamesC says that maybe forging a good virtual presence might be seen as they way Vertigo retains an identity, its present one has in may ways has been taken by Image and Dark Horse?
Just because something is released in digital format shouldn't necessarily affect it getting an trade release and doing very well in that format. So for example Bayou from DCs online project that's name a forget... Zudo I think... maybe.
I'm not saying this is what their doing but it does strike me as an option. We'll see.
DC can shift to digital, but Vertigo's branding is that they're pretty much a graphic novel company - at best I see them shifting focus to their back catalog being available digitally rather than pushing current digital issues of their books and potentially affecting their trade sales down the line. The lead Vertigo has lost to Image and Dark Horse can be laid at the door of the terms offered to creators by the company, and I don't think higher digital visibility will claw back the creators or properties that went elsewhere, or mend the fences with alienated talent - though the company now being effectively separate from the much-disliked DC may be enough of a Chinese Wall for some creators to consider returning to it.
As for Zuda, I would suggest that failed because it was a glorified fan art competition and created just as much ill feeling among losers as it did among winners - the contracts offered were apparently not great, and given how little we've ever heard of those winners or their work, I suspect they could have had as much success pimping their stuff via Twitter, only they'd still own it.
Quote from: Lightning McQuack on 14 February, 2013, 01:56:35 PMI don't really see that kind of shift for Vertigo, as their graphic novel side of things is doing very well
Any time I saw a review or mention of the Vertigo Crime books or OGNs in the last few years they were pretty lukewarm. Must be selling well if they're making OGNs though.
Sandman and Preacher are evergreens, with newer stuff like 100 Bullets and Y The last Man doing respectably also. I could be wrong, but pretty much everything Alan Moore did for ABC is currently owned by Vertigo, hence an Absolute Edition Landscape printing of Promethea that will be released shortly in order to make sure the rights don't revert back to the bearded hobgoblin.
Something to take the dross taste of 'Constantine' out of your mouth...the guts of the entire run of Hellblazer is up on Comixology for €0.89 an issue.
1st issue free too.
Some stone cold classics.
Thanks for that, Link Prime! I'm off to check it out...