2000 AD Online Forum

As out in Xmas Day... here the trailer that was on CIN; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3KVpvEUTns (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3KVpvEUTns)

Promo poster


The Snowmen...

Didn't realise the new assistant was an Axon....

Richard Grant as Scrooge. Nice.

I hope it's better than last year's!

Even though I enjoyed Moffat's last two episodes, I still find myself hoping he does something a lot better than last year's Christmas special myself. Richard E. Grant's character is apparently called Doctor Simeon. I was hoping he'd somehow be his Doctor to get us more excited for the big anniversary year run.

Not normally a fan of the xmas specials, but that 2nd picture has hooked me in on this one - these could be my favourite baddies ever.

Did they have to reference a really crappy animated movie with the poster? And it does look slightly cheaply composited.

That said, those snowmen look fun.

Some really cool design work on the snowflakes there. Slightly undermined by the fact that the frost effect on the 'E' looks a bit like a fish skellington.

"Is the mysterious Doctor Simeon friend or foe?" they ask.
That's only got me hoping Grant really will be 'his' Doctor again even though I should admit he won't be. Probably...
http://tv.uk.msn.com/drama/doctor-who-christmas-special-2012-the-snowmen-new-pictures

There's a new trailer over at Bleeding Cool.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/12/12/new-trailer-for-doctor-who-christmas-special-has-a-couple-of-surprises/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/12/12/new-trailer-for-doctor-who-christmas-special-has-a-couple-of-surprises/)

Oh and look there doing that thing already, the kissing but (I guess) not really kissing, it doesn't really count kissing, but we'll show you the kissing to make you think 'Uhhh look the Doctors kissing how exciting' but of course it won't be cos its doesn't really count kissing. Like "oh you have a alien nanbot on your lips that's allergic to my lip stick so I'll kiss you, doesn't count but I will" type thing... just stop it already its getting old.

Colin, do you need a kiss?

Only if it counts to you Goaty, only if it counts...

I see the BBC have given up and scheduled it for the afternoon kids' slot. Just as well, as i think im beginning to object to my license fee being spent on it and would prefer it to come out of CBBC's budget, not BBC Drama.

SBT

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 12 December, 2012, 04:04:23 PM
I see the BBC have given up and scheduled it for the afternoon kids' slot. Just as well, as i think im beginning to object to my license fee being spent on it and would prefer it to come out of CBBC's budget, not BBC Drama.

SBT

SBT as a mtter of interest what are your objections to it?

According to   The Doctor Who Site  , News section reports a new costume for Matt Smith and a new interior for the Tardis !!   Trying to get more hard earned cash from the Dr Who collectors...

http://news.thedoctorwhosite.co.uk/sneak-peak-at-brand-new-tardis/

Quote from: Goaty on 27 November, 2012, 07:45:35 PM

Promo poster

at least she's wiped her chin

My objection is it's badly written, overacted toss that shouldve been quietly canned when Tennant left, seeing as it had already been on the slide for two years. This is, of course, merely my opinion- though the scheduling at 5:15 suggests the beeb arent as condfident as in previous years, and having seen bits i dont blame them. If they're going to do 'attack of the deranged killer monster snow goons' they could at least have the decency to feature a small boy and his stuffed tiger companion.

SBT

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 12 December, 2012, 05:38:15 PM
My objection is it's badly written, overacted toss that shouldve been quietly canned when Tennant left, seeing as it had already been on the slide for two years. This is, of course, merely my opinion- though the scheduling at 5:15 suggests the beeb arent as condfident as in previous years, and having seen bits i dont blame them. If they're going to do 'attack of the deranged killer monster snow goons' they could at least have the decency to feature a small boy and his stuffed tiger companion.

SBT

Yeah but there's a great lookin' bird in it.

Oh, is karen gillan back? I thought they'd replaced her with that other one.

SBT

Miss Coleman needs a good F[spoiler]uckin[/spoiler]g.




V

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 12 December, 2012, 05:38:15 PM
My objection is it's badly written, overacted toss that shouldve been quietly canned when Tennant left, seeing as it had already been on the slide for two years. This is, of course, merely my opinion- though the scheduling at 5:15 suggests the beeb arent as condfident as in previous years, and having seen bits i dont blame them. If they're going to do 'attack of the deranged killer monster snow goons' they could at least have the decency to feature a small boy and his stuffed tiger companion.

SBT

My 8 year old Son, for whom I assume the show is aimed at, absolutely adores it. That, for me at least, is good enough.

Yes, so does my seven year old. So make it from the cbbc budget, not from drama.

There's a semi-serious point here. Dr Who is NOT a childrens programme. It's a FAMILY show. Of the six million or so viewers it attracts as its core audience, a maximum of 1.5m are children. The vast majority of Dr Who's audience is, and always has been, adults. And yet, the new show's fans always rely on the defence of "it's for the kids". Speaking as an old-school fan who prefers Hartnell to Tennant and considers Davsion way too young and 'the new boy', i can't get my head around this. Fandom has swivelled 180degrees from when i were a lad. It's baffling. Dr Who finally has all the resources it's needed all these decades and now they go and make it the most childish and sloppy it's ever been, relying on flashy visuals and ugly sitcom dialogue to disguise the dearth of adventure, suspense, wit and chutzpah.

I know others see it differently, but it's not a show for me any more.

SBT

MattvSmith is a fab actor and brings a great deal of family fun, gravitas (when needed) and knowing twinklenessvto the role. 

I've only seebn Doctors since Pertwee but fir me he is genuinely the best since Baker (Tom).

I think M Smith is a terrible Doctor, and find  Nu Who unwatchable.   Smith is attempting a clumsy Pat Troughton vibe, but comes across as an irritating, awkward, upper-class twit.   I find all Nu Who to be  mawkish, sentimental nonsense, derivative and predictable; instantly disposable.  People attempt to defend it's shortcomings by stating it is just a children's programme, but I would have hated it as a kid, I'm sure.
Sorry, rant over.  ;)

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 12 December, 2012, 04:04:23 PM
I see the BBC have given up and scheduled it for the afternoon kids' slot. Just as well, as i think im beginning to object to my license fee being spent on it and would prefer it to come out of CBBC's budget, not BBC Drama.

SBT

The timing of the programme has nothing whatsoever to do with the BBC "giving up".

I dunno about that. For some reason last night i had a quick toodle over to a major dr who fan forum- not the biggest, ive not been there for a couple of years, since i received a three-day ban for saying i didnt like patrick stewart's acting or face. There's a lot of people of the opinion that the series is firmly on the slide and no longer the 'jewel in the crown', with this year that being 'call the midwife'. Dr who now occupies the 'kid's easy entertainment' slot, which has had in it previously 'the grufallo' shorts and whatever cgi cartoon the beeb has bafflingly decided to broadcast, forgetting that everybody with kids owns them all already. A very good point was made that at least the RTD xmases were 'special', with huge stars, wild ideas and new doctors or doctors ending. Moffat has given us three dickensian, blue-tinted chocolate box mildly amusing 'box of delights'-style fantasies- the sort of thing for xmas eve perhaps, or boxing day, but blockbusters for the big day? I think not.

SBT

Quote from: Leigh S on 27 November, 2012, 08:23:22 PM
Didn't realise the new assistant was an Axon....

hahaha!  You made me laugh out loud in the office!  2nd time today (first was the Cassandra sketch in the advent thread) My colleagues now think I'm some kind of giggling freak.  Yeah, she is just missing the shiny eyes, and the transformation would be complete.

QuoteIf they're going to do 'attack of the deranged killer monster snow goons' they could at least have the decency to feature a small boy and his stuffed tiger companion.

One of my fave C&H collections, right next to 'Something under the Bed is Drooling'!  Nice to know there's another C&H fan on the board.  ;)   I completely get what you're saying too - that snowman's face reminded me of this:



I'm afraid I'm not really a fan of Matt Smith either, or Moffat's scripts, but I will watch this on Xmas day all the same.  After all, it's still Dr Who, and I don't want it to ever disappear from our screens again.

I accept that Dr Who is not really made for me individually in the same way that Blue Peter isn't.  I find this is a good way to ignore it and get on with my life if they ever employ someone on Blue Peter who made me angry once.

Moffat has ruined Dr Who for me too. I mean, some writer I've never head of and I bet nobody else here has- Neil Gaiman or something- had said he really enjoys Moffat's episodes so Moffat gave him a chance to write an episode and this "Neil Gaiman" cat jumped at the chance (I bet that episode is instantly forgotten by all Who fans) and he's written another episode on the Cybermen to be aired next year. Seriously, how desperate is that? What we need is Catherine Tate back. I tend to look at the SFX forum after every Dr Who episode to see what others think, and every now and again one person will suggest bringing back RTD and the comment gets nothing but "thumbs-down", but I'm with him. I miss the dry wit of aliens making fart noises or wink at the camera sex gags! That was Dr Who at it's funniest and most mature. If this year's Christmas special doesn't include The Silver Cloak, I'll never watch it again but I'll just keep complaining about it on this very forum.

I know the BBC covered up the actions of a pedophile for decades, but it is the existence of Doctor Who - a tv show I don't watch - that really makes me question the licence fee.

Quote from: shaolin_monkey on 14 December, 2012, 12:11:24 PM

QuoteIf they're going to do 'attack of the deranged killer monster snow goons' they could at least have the decency to feature a small boy and his stuffed tiger companion.

One of my fave C&H collections, right next to 'Something under the Bed is Drooling'!  Nice to know there's another C&H fan on the board.  ;)   I completely get what you're saying too - that snowman's face reminded me of this:

Did you see the post on faceybook by Mr House of Usher of this parish?


Made me laugh

Quote from: James Stacey on 14 December, 2012, 03:13:44 PM

Quote from: shaolin_monkey on 14 December, 2012, 12:11:24 PM

QuoteIf they're going to do 'attack of the deranged killer monster snow goons' they could at least have the decency to feature a small boy and his stuffed tiger companion.

One of my fave C&H collections, right next to 'Something under the Bed is Drooling'!  Nice to know there's another C&H fan on the board.  ;)   I completely get what you're saying too - that snowman's face reminded me of this:

Did you see the post on faceybook by Mr House of Usher of this parish?


Made me laugh

Man that's great.

I did see that, but it didn't click what I was looking at, until now!

*ahem* Dr Who, Xmas special etc, yeah, looking forward to Xmas Day...

Doctor Who is like a really geeky kid who falls out of favour during his teen years as all his mates discover girls - he has a bit of a breakdown and  no one sees him for years.

He comes back after much therapy determined he will be loved.  And lo! it comes to pass, hes popular - they arent sniggering at him- even girls love him.  Bolstered by this reception, he turns into a thoroughly unlikeable, smug performing goon (also known as Tennant) who doesnt even really need to try to get attention - years of shame and humiliation wiped away, what kind of monster would question whether this transformation was wholly positive?

While I think Matt Smith does a decent turn as the Doctor, this smugness at its own brilliance hasnt really vanished under Moffatt.  I think the standard is pretty much higher than RTD sank to, but I am dreading the look of perky perky to the power of perkosity companion that Moffatt defaults to for his female "characters".

i hope it has a story that vaguely makes sense. ;) fact is though i'll be drinking my Christmas beer and watch it in a hopefully happy, drink addled manner.For me it's become part of my Christmas day.

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 14 December, 2012, 10:03:45 AM
I dunno about that. For some reason last night i had a quick toodle over to a major dr who fan forum- not the biggest, ive not been there for a couple of years, since i received a three-day ban for saying i didnt like patrick stewart's acting or face. There's a lot of people of the opinion that the series is firmly on the slide and no longer the 'jewel in the crown', with this year that being 'call the midwife'. Dr who now occupies the 'kid's easy entertainment' slot, which has had in it previously 'the grufallo' shorts and whatever cgi cartoon the beeb has bafflingly decided to broadcast, forgetting that everybody with kids owns them all already. A very good point was made that at least the RTD xmases were 'special', with huge stars, wild ideas and new doctors or doctors ending. Moffat has given us three dickensian, blue-tinted chocolate box mildly amusing 'box of delights'-style fantasies- the sort of thing for xmas eve perhaps, or boxing day, but blockbusters for the big day? I think not.

SBT

Ah yes, those child-friendly Dickensian episodes. As opposed to alien sword fights and Bad Santas with guns that are more obviously adult fare.

Well Doctor Who on chrimbo is a tradition for me, though the last few year's it's been spoilet by either a) the story was shite (TDTWATW) and b) my anti-Who grandfather spoiles it by being a miserable git.

Quotemy anti-Who grandfather

Your grandfather is The Master..?

Quote from: Richmond Clements on 21 December, 2012, 09:39:40 AM

Quotemy anti-Who grandfather

Your grandfather is The Master..?

Would surprise me at this point! At least Mrs. Browns Boy's is on Chrimbo Eve so it should be a good year of BBC TV.

Pressing the red button while on BBC1 for the text seems to occasionally give you the chance to watch a prequel to this year's Christmas special.

Quote from: Richmond Clements on 21 December, 2012, 09:39:40 AM

Quotemy anti-Who grandfather

Your grandfather is The Master..?

He likes Turkey. Or was it chicken?

Gah!!! whu??!?/ huh?!? :o

Loved it. Proper snowy/Christmasy.

In depth analysis ends.

Aye, great. "Remain calm, human scum!" Strax had me pissing myself laughing.

I'm bored of problems being solved with emotions, love, tears and everyone holding hands and singing kumbiya.

he's a scientist! Use science! Even if its not real science, I'll be happy. As long as its not about the all conquering love of the human race and involves neutron flows in some way, I'll be happy.

Just watching it now. I have my reservations over the domestic ideals of Sontarans...but Strax is piss your pants funny at time's. "Sir! I think i've been run over by a cab!"  :lol:

Loved it. Particularly enjoyed the humour of it that had me chuckle but would then have me laughing at how my young nephew was laughing at it. It was also a good move not being a Christmas special and so everything is all wrapped up at the end.

Quote from: Temponaut on 25 December, 2012, 07:48:19 PM
I'm bored of problems being solved with emotions, love, tears and everyone holding hands and singing kumbiya.

he's a scientist! Use science! Even if its not real science, I'll be happy. As long as its not about the all conquering love of the human race and involves neutron flows in some way, I'll be happy.

Its never about the science-its all about the love Temponaut. Always.

I presume the open ending concering the [spoiler]Great Intelligence[/spoiler] leads into [spoiler]The Abominable Snowmen and The Web of Fear[/spoiler] instead of being an open plot thread for series 7 part 2/ series 8 next year...

Ha well there was that nice little reference you've just mentioned but I was thinking more along the lines of [spoiler]Who is Clara/Oswin? I've heard there are rumours she's his Granddaughter but I doubt that is anything more than a rumour[/spoiler]

I found myself actually enjoying an episode of Nu Who for once, that is until the end and predictably, slushy sentimentality won the day (crying beats monsters), and no, despite what I'd hoped, we won't be getting a Victorian-era companion. Plus ça change....

Yeah, that whole [spoiler]crying thing was almost as bad as the Cybermen being beaten by a fat man's love if his son. Bleurgh. Should have gone with the grenades.  That Sontaran spoke a lot of sense. [/spoiler]

I too was disappointed we didn't get a [spoiler]Victorian Clara.  Why do companions have to be do fixed in present day?[/spoiler] That said, I still really enjoyed the episode. Richard E Grant was quite a good [spoiler] Scrooge-like villain[/spoiler], and the new [spoiler]TARDIS[/spoiler] rocked!

The cliffhanger was quite good. I'm definitely intrigued, but I hope it doesn't turn into another massively convoluted series.

As for the [spoiler]GI and London Underground, [/spoiler] that has to be a reference to the Troughton era!  It would be a lot of fun if it crops up again though!

I absolutly loved it. But if I'm being more specific then I particularly loved:

The Doctor's face in the title sequence
The new TARDIS interior
The return (and technically first chronological appearance) of the Great Intelligence.
The Strax memory loss scenes (which were genuinly funny).
The spiral staircase up to the TARDIS cloud.

But as I said I really loved the whole thing. The best Christmas special yet.

Ah Mr Monkey- but is [spoiler]she 'fixed' in present day? ASYLUM had her as being from the future, this had her in Victorian Era, the graveyard scene looked to be present day but the clips for what's to come in the new year appeared to have her someplace else again! The big thing at the minute is we don't really know anything about her![/spoiler] It's got me excited...

Yeah, I'm definitely intrigued.

Tell me something....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imXBIlmXcAk

heres the new intro...is it me or does it very quickly change between all 11 doctors as it moves past?

I just see a very brief flash of Matt Smith lit by lightning. .?

So since the Great Intelligence simply mirrors the information given it, and the Doctor brought in that lunchbox with the map of the Underground on it, it was therefore the Doctor himself who gave the Intelligence the idea to send "Snowmen" into the Underground in the first place, setting up the problem that he had to deal with nine bodies ago...?

Yes, the tears were godawful.  I would have preferred Vastra taking Richard E. Grant's head off at the shoulders.

Who is [spoiler]Oswin[/spoiler]?  I don't know, but in fairly sure it will have something to do with the [spoiler]triumph of the human spirit[/spoiler].

Started well enough..ended crap and left me very confused how tears could defeat some sort of nano tech snow beast. Very, very confusing.   

I thought that was great episode! Who IS Oswin?

Quote from: IAMTHESYSTEM on 26 December, 2012, 03:10:39 PM
Started well enough..ended crap and left me very confused how tears could defeat some sort of nano tech snow beast. Very, very confusing.

Exactly! - first 20 mins or so were tolerable, (thanks mainly to the comedy Sontaran) but it soon descended into a confusing, Moffat magical fantasy tale masquerading as SF, with an inevitable, tear jerking ending. 
Still, my niece enjoyed it, that's the main thing.

Repeat; only a telly programme....only a telly programme...

I wasn't keen on the resolution. And I was also hoping for a Victorian companion too... although what we actually got is very intriguing. I do hope there is a genuine scientific* reason for her.

I did really enjoy the episode overall though. The Sontaran memory loss stuff was very amusing. There were great characters all in all. And I'll admit, I like a snowy Victorian Christmas tale.

*Psuedo-scientific would also be fine. As long as it makes sense within the established universe, if that makes sense. Mind you considering the resolutions within the 'established universe' lately...

To overcome an obstacle in Doctor Who all you have to do is think positive. "I do believe in fairies, I do believe in fairies" or "I don't believe in killer snowmen and doll type monsters or any of those things". It's a simple solution and always works and the dads and mums and boys and girls and kitties and puppies of Great Britain all give a rousing cheer and wipe away happy tears as the music swells and "everyone lives" or maybe someone dies ....kind of.

I expect Rhonda Byrne is the scientific consultant. She may as well become show runner at this rate.

I think Oprah Winfrey would probably make a good Doctor.


Jenny, Vastra, and Strax are a good laugh at least.

Sorry, this is too much for me. Off to watch DVD of Death to the Daleks. Nu Who is absolute shite.

^
This.

Utterly awful in every single way, except the usage of the sontaran, who was quite funny. The whole thing was so half-hearted and sloppy- just pitiful.

SBT

Watched it again on BBC3 last night.

Loved it again. Opinions eh?

For me the Christmas episode was distinctly meh. Sad Doctor lost his (Christmas) spirit and needs help to find it again.

I think Oswin could become a genuinely good companion, I hope.

I liked most of it apart from the crying bit, but on the other hand at least it wasn't love that saved the day for once, but the power of utter miserableness. Yay for depression!

Oh and I liked the invisible spiral staircase into the clouds but there's something very, very familiar about it.

I liked the fact she died again... I actually found myself hoping she would...

I agree the storytelling is a long way from the classics but I still like it.

Clan Tips liked it a lot. Laughed a lot. I've accepted that Doctor Who often resolves stories via hugs and/or pixie dust. I wish it wasn't so but it is. And it doesn't bother me enough to moan or fume about it.  The rest far outweighs this niggle. Sotaran was very funny.

I've no problem with the power of love saving the day. Just not every day.

Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 27 December, 2012, 09:27:41 PM
I've no problem with the power of love saving the day. Just not every day.

Paris, 1979;
4th Doctor: "Romana, Scaroth the last of the Jaggeroth is going to travel back to Earth's primordial past to save his awful race and undue all human history in the process.  Maybe if we all had a good cry, he'll  change his mind"
Romana; "Or we could get all the Parisians to chant your name at the same time, and then somehow, magically, we'll be empowered enough to stop him"
4th Doctor: " Oh, Romana, I'm sorry, so sorry..."
Romana: "I love you, Doctor."
4th Doctor: "Quite right, too."

Quote from: Zanti Misfit on 27 December, 2012, 09:53:43 PM

Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 27 December, 2012, 09:27:41 PM
I've no problem with the power of love saving the day. Just not every day.

Paris, 1979;
4th Doctor: "Romana, Scaroth the last of the Jaggeroth is going to travel back to Earth's primordial past to save his awful race and undue all human history in the process.  Maybe if we all had a good cry, he'll  change his mind"
Romana; "Or we could get all the Parisians to chant your name at the same time, and then somehow, magically, we'll be empowered enough to stop him"
4th Doctor: " Oh, Romana, I'm sorry, so sorry..."
Romana: "I love you, Doctor."
4th Doctor: "Quite right, too."

:lol:

Quote from: Hawkmonger on 27 December, 2012, 10:08:25 PM

Quote from: Zanti Misfit on 27 December, 2012, 09:53:43 PM

Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 27 December, 2012, 09:27:41 PM
I've no problem with the power of love saving the day. Just not every day.

Paris, 1979;
4th Doctor: "Romana, Scaroth the last of the Jaggeroth is going to travel back to Earth's primordial past to save his awful race and undue all human history in the process.  Maybe if we all had a good cry, he'll  change his mind"
Romana; "Or we could get all the Parisians to chant your name at the same time, and then somehow, magically, we'll be empowered enough to stop him"
4th Doctor: " Oh, Romana, I'm sorry, so sorry..."
Romana: "I love you, Doctor."
4th Doctor: "Quite right, too."

:lol:

Gah! The line should read; "undo all human history", not undue :-[

(Note to self: must not post comments while half-cut.  Curse you Sainsbury's, and your affordable red wine selection!)

Ha!  Bloody brilliant!  I take your point, but then Douglas Adams is a hard act to follow - those episodes were genius.

QuoteDoctor Who: The silent type, eh? I once knew a boy like you. Never said a word, very taciturn. Well, I said to him, there's no point in talking if you've got nothing to say. Did well in the end, though. Name of Shakespeare. Ever read any Shakespeare? Countess?
Countess: A little.
[opens a panel and takes out a book]
Countess: Hamlet! First draft.
Doctor Who: What? That's been missing for centuries.
Countess: It's quite genuine, I assure you.
Doctor Who: I know. I recognize the handwriting.
Countess: Shakespeare's.
Doctor Who: No, mine. He sprained his wrist writing sonnets. Wonderful stuff. "To be or not to be, that's the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or to take arms against a sea of troubles and..." Take arms against a sea of troubles? That's a mixed - I told him that was a mixed metaphor and he would insist!

Plus Adams had the benefit of spreading the plot over four episodes, something sadly missing in Nu Who.

These days they need some stupid device to wrap it up as quickly as possible  - love, tears, parent/child bonding, communal love, all that bollocks.

Quote from: shaolin_monkey on 28 December, 2012, 08:15:45 AM
Ha!  Bloody brilliant!  I take your point, but then Douglas Adams is a hard act to follow - those episodes were genius.

QuoteDoctor Who: The silent type, eh? I once knew a boy like you. Never said a word, very taciturn. Well, I said to him, there's no point in talking if you've got nothing to say. Did well in the end, though. Name of Shakespeare. Ever read any Shakespeare? Countess?
Countess: A little.
[opens a panel and takes out a book]
Countess: Hamlet! First draft.
Doctor Who: What? That's been missing for centuries.
Countess: It's quite genuine, I assure you.
Doctor Who: I know. I recognize the handwriting.
Countess: Shakespeare's.
Doctor Who: No, mine. He sprained his wrist writing sonnets. Wonderful stuff. "To be or not to be, that's the question. Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or to take arms against a sea of troubles and..." Take arms against a sea of troubles? That's a mixed - I told him that was a mixed metaphor and he would insist!

Plus Adams had the benefit of spreading the plot over four episodes, something sadly missing in Nu Who.

These days they need some stupid device to wrap it up as quickly as possible  - love, tears, parent/child bonding, communal love, all that bollocks.

Agreed on all points.
(and though I've watched City of Death umpteen times, seeing the quote you included reminded me just how clever that story was.  As you say, 'genius'. :)

Well I've mixed feeling. Clara / Oswin has an intriguing concept so we'll see how that develops of the course of the season. On the other hand she feels a bit like an amalgam of whats gone before (hey actually maybe that'll be the point???) companion wise, spunky, feisty, quick witted, smart etc etc. All in nothing new. We need Turlough back, something different. Still we'll see.

The biggest problem with the story, as has often been the case with new companion stories in Nu Who is the story itself is secondary to establishing quite how spunky, feisty etc etc the new companion is and feels a bit of an after thought. The end, [spoiler]the tears of a family on X-Mas eve[/spoiler] was Davisesque nonsense of the highest order. Never really enjoyed an X Mas special yet and this one over all was no different.

Still there was much to like in the 'sound bites' the staircase being taller on the inside was genius. Like the fact that The Doctor couldn't properly remember his encounter with the Yeti, I wonder if this is going to form part of the set up of the anniversary shenanigans, whatever they may be. One to look out for. Oh and as ever the trailer for the next season (half season?) was wonderfully intriguing.

Why can't the Doctor have a full-time, male companion for once?  I admit that the new girl is very attractive, (though nothing beats Lalla Ward in a school uniform..) but as we see the Doctor pick up yet another attractive young thing, doesn't it make him appear a bit sleazy and predictable?  If we must have more girly eye-candy, I think Clara from the Victorian era would have been a far more interesting and daring choice.  This programme is very conservative.

I agree, a consistant male companion would be a welcome change.

In defense of the Doctor forgetting old foes, I accept that he's clever and has a good memory, but that business with the Yeti in the Underground was at least 750 years ago.  As recently as two seasons back, he couldn't even remember how humans introduced themselves to each other.  A bunch of furry robots in tunnels nine lives ago... wow, that's asking a lot.  He probably hasn't read the LInDA guidebooks to his adventures to keep track of what he's done.

In related news, an online acquaintance of mine had an interesting discussion with a friend about the Great Intelligence.  A couple of the Virgin Missing Adventures books "established" that the Great Intelligence was the Lovecraft god Yog-Soggoth, because those books were full of fannish geekery like that, and, Lovecraft fans they are, they're not happy that Moffat has "retconned" those books and given the Intelligence a new origin.

Quote from: Bat King on 27 December, 2012, 06:51:56 PM
I liked the fact she died again... I actually found myself hoping she would...

I'm quite hoping she dies in every episode of the new series.  She could be the South Park's Kenny of Dr Who.

Oh my god, they killed Oswin

You bastards!

New Adventures; "All Consuming Fire"?  Doctor plus Sherlock plus Lovecraftian horrors?  Moffat would have a field day!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Consuming_Fire

Quote from: oshii on 28 December, 2012, 10:31:29 PM

Quote from: Bat King on 27 December, 2012, 06:51:56 PM
I liked the fact she died again... I actually found myself hoping she would...

I'm quite hoping she dies in every episode of the new series.  She could be the South Park's Kenny of Dr Who

That would be great!  :D

Yeah, it's prity much established fan opinion in the Who community that TGI is Yog-Sothoth, as seen in The Case of Charles Dexter Ward. It's also believed that the Animus from The Web Planet was one of the lesser god's, cast down and out of favour. The God's of Ragnorak and Fenric fit in there also somewhere.

There's good fan lore (the 8th Doctor won the Time War, regenerated, came to Earth and immediately got involved with Rose Tyler, not seeing his new face until he was in her apartment) and then there's the kind of fan lore that thinks that Doctor Who's occasional super-beasties are all really characters created by HP Lovecraft.

Quote from: Hawkmonger on 28 December, 2012, 10:41:56 PM
Yeah, it's prity much established fan opinion in the Who community that TGI is Yog-Sothoth, as seen in The Case of Charles Dexter Ward. It's also believed that the Animus from The Web Planet was one of the lesser god's, cast down and out of favour. The God's of Ragnorak and Fenric fit in there also somewhere.

Hawkmonger, you seem far more well-versed in Lovecraft knowledge than I, but wasn't it suggested in some Doctor Who community fan lit that 'Dagon' was somehow connected to the Sea Devils?  Tell me I'm not imagining things! Sorry for my ignorance, but I really didn't know anything about the whole 'Cthulhu Mythos' until  I first read 'Zenith'. :-[

Quote from: Daveycandlish on 28 December, 2012, 10:36:32 PM

Quote from: oshii on 28 December, 2012, 10:31:29 PM

Quote from: Bat King on 27 December, 2012, 06:51:56 PM
I liked the fact she died again... I actually found myself hoping she would...

I'm quite hoping she dies in every episode of the new series.  She could be the South Park's Kenny of Dr Who

That would be great!  :D

I do wonder if that's where this is all going. Though they'd need to be a little careful 'cos as soon as you realise this is going to happen a lot of drama is lost and I'd end up watching episodes curiously wondering how the nuClara was gonna die, rather than worrying about her as a character?

QuoteIn defense of the Doctor forgetting old foes, I accept that he's clever and has a good memory, but that business with the Yeti in the Underground was at least 750 years ago.  As recently as two seasons back, he couldn't even remember how humans introduced themselves to each other.  A bunch of furry robots in tunnels nine lives ago... wow, that's asking a lot.  He probably hasn't read the LInDA guidebooks to his adventures to keep track of what he's done.

Yeah but surely he has the Target novelisations to remind him?

Out of interest do we have a reference to the second Doctor's adventures being 750 years ago? Have timelines been pinned down somewhere?

The second Doctor told Jamie and Victoria that he was 450 years old.  His most recent age, as told to Amy, Rory, and River, was 1100, but he also dropped fifty years between "Time and the Rani" and "Aliens in London."  What we can gleam from this is that the Doctor lies about his age, and that I can't do math.  650 years.

I think Clara's reoccuring deaths would seem more of a mystery if Rory hadn't been killed every other episode....

Still, it wasn't entirely a bad episode, beyond that almost parodical "crying beats monsters" scene tacked on there - they are now officially just doing this to piss off the ming mongs surely?  As writers, they have to be aware how played out the whole "emotions trump having your neck snapped by a cyberman" resolution is by now?  That said, it fitted the Great Intelligence better than most villains - if only they hadnt used it past the point of sanity it might have worked quite well.

I often get the feeling that nu Who is more influenced by Marvels Doctor Who strips than the show itself.  I'm waiting for the adaption of "City of the Damned", which would fit their template perfectly - the Doctor as "The Great Emoter" pretty much sums up modern Who!

"this, alien intelligence of unknown origin and purpose, is a map of future earth technology. Its a militarily weak point of London one hundred years from now. Why am I showing it to you, you ask? To appease the dads at home, who remember this show back from when it was scary, rather than just an advert for toys.  Jellybaby?"

Quote from: Zanti Misfit on 28 December, 2012, 11:13:55 PM

Quote from: Hawkmonger on 28 December, 2012, 10:41:56 PM
Yeah, it's prity much established fan opinion in the Who community that TGI is Yog-Sothoth, as seen in The Case of Charles Dexter Ward. It's also believed that the Animus from The Web Planet was one of the lesser god's, cast down and out of favour. The God's of Ragnorak and Fenric fit in there also somewhere.

Hawkmonger, you seem far more well-versed in Lovecraft knowledge than I, but wasn't it suggested in some Doctor Who community fan lit that 'Dagon' was somehow connected to the Sea Devils?  Tell me I'm not imagining things! Sorry for my ignorance, but I really didn't know anything about the whole 'Cthulhu Mythos' until  I first read 'Zenith'. :-[

Apparently, yes! I have heard this swim around the boards though like most of this it's all fan theory. I believe The Great Intelligence is the only entity directly referenced by a Lovecraftien name, though other HPL creations have been mentioned (Both Cthulhu and R'leyh have been referenced in the Virgin New Adventures by Ace) so it's all really just fan speculation. Personaly I feel HPL's style add's a layer of mystery to the whole thing and i'm quite happy to let it gel, any new exposure to the master of horror can only be a good thing.

Quote from: Zanti Misfit on 14 December, 2012, 09:40:20 AM
I think M Smith is a terrible Doctor, and find  Nu Who unwatchable.   Smith is attempting a clumsy Pat Troughton vibe, but comes across as an irritating, awkward, upper-class twit.   I find all Nu Who to be  mawkish, sentimental nonsense, derivative and predictable; instantly disposable.  People attempt to defend it's shortcomings by stating it is just a children's programme, but I would have hated it as a kid, I'm sure.
Sorry, rant over.  ;)

And I thought I was the only one who thought like that!!!

The more things change...

enjoyed the first half then it all went tits up with the maukish nonsense and owengirl stuff, the hard hearted Dr would have been a blessing

It was going quite well until the 'tears save the day' resolution. I think I must have dozed off at some point though. What's the [spoiler]Great Intelligence[/spoiler] and why was the Doctor carrying [spoiler]a lunchbox[/spoiler]?

I agree that the comedy Sontaran sidekick was very funny. And comedy sidekicks are never funny.  :-\

Quote from: Cactus on 02 January, 2013, 07:16:23 PM
It was going quite well until the 'tears save the day' resolution. I think I must have dozed off at some point though. What's the [spoiler]Great Intelligence[/spoiler] and why was the Doctor carrying [spoiler]a lunchbox[/spoiler]?

The [spoiler]Great Intelligence[/spoiler] is a malignent life form that has no physical body so leaches of individuals of power (Previously Padmasvbava of the Tibetan Monk's in 1967) and a long serving villein and occational thorn in the side for the Doctor. Essentialy it's one of those god-like beings that should really be above a silly rag man in a little blue box. He used [spoiler]Robot Yeti[/spoiler] to basicly hold power int Tibet and used them again in the London Underground (Not just good for Bond chases and Quatermass story's after all then) which is where the lunch box come's in. It's just a throw away fan wank, basicly.

Thanks for the clarification Hawkmonger. I wasn't born in time for the Troughton/Pertwee era so I won't worry unduly if some of the fan-wank goes over my head.

i never watch the christmas specials. ridonculousness of the highest odour!