Whether for books or comics, newspapers or magazines, they lack the tactile longevity of paper. You can't take an eReader in the bath. You can't flick its pages and smell times gone past. You can't toss it in a bag and be sure it will be readable. You can't share it with someone you know will like it.
They are the work of the devil.
Evil and smug
QuoteWhether for books or comics, newspapers or magazines, they lack the tactile longevity of paper.
They'll last a heck of a lot longer then paper, which can fade, rot, and burn. And if my device ever gets replaced my purchases are tied to my log-in name and can be downloaded again instantly. Not something that can be said if my house burns down or is in a flood.
QuoteYou can't take an eReader in the bath.
What kind of madman takes any kind of paper book anywhere near a water source?
QuoteYou can't flick its pages and smell times gone past.
Fallacy. You only find these things nostalgic because you have done them for a long time. Once you do something else for a period of time, that thing becomes nostalgic. I've had my iPad for about two months and swiping pages has become second nature and familiar. I actually get annoyed with page turning when I read print now.
QuoteYou can't toss it in a bag and be sure it will be readable.
Uh... I'm generally pretty terrified of my print books/comics/magazines getting wrecked in a bag. My iPad is of sturdy construction and is unlikely to be damaged due to typical motions.
QuoteYou can't share it with someone you know will like it.
This is a legit problem. Although there has been a bit of movement when it comes to loaning and sharing eContent amongst friends. But it has a way to go to become convient. But its not a really a deal breaker, because I don't loan books very often.
QuoteThey are the work of the devil.
I'm pretty sure they are manufactured by man for use by man. The devil's got more important things going on.
Frankly all of your reasonings are a joke because none of them have anything to do with what really matters. The contents. Of which are presented impeccably on eReaders. The object content is presented on is the least important part of reading.
Thanks to readers, I managed to read some comics I otherwise couldn't, though admittedly via grey-area means (I'm sure I needn't elaborate) and thanks to them I can safely say I have ended up spending more money on certain books than otherwise would have been the case.
So on one hand I read more comics thanks to my tablet, but on the other I probably spend more money in the long run because I come away thinking I'd like a physical copy of something I enjoyed, or that someone I know would enjoy, and in some cases just to support the creators - if they'd start making collections of arcs available as .pdf or .cbr files so they could be read in chunks rather than through limited browsers, I could really see web creators cleaning up on the new format.
The short version is GET WITH THE TIMES, GRANDPA.
Quote from: Link PrimeEvil and smug
Not as smug as those who clutch their print books because they see them as 'better'. Because of some ridiculous notion that turning pages is an important part of the reading experience.
I wonder if people had this much of a problem when the printing press took all the ornate woodcarving personalization away. Or when scrolls became obsolete.
Another bonus is you no longer need a bedside light or one of those awkward clip on reading lights.
The only downsides I can see are that you don't get that glorious new book smell, it can be a pain to scroll through multiple pages or find a particular page, and books don't occasionally crash.
Digital comics are wonderful for sampling things you wouldn't otherwise take a chance on, and for being able to buy the next issue as soon as you finish reading one.
As with DVDs/Blu Rays, I think I'll still continue to buy physical copies of things, but only stuff I really want to savour and revisit again and again.
Quote from: radiatorAs with DVDs/Blu Rays, I think I'll still continue to buy physical copies of things, but only stuff I really want to savour and revisit again and again.
I'm only buying physical film media until streaming or downloading film media is as high quality as the best physical format. At the moment Blu-ray just can not be beat on the digital front. Because file sizes are just too high.
Prose and Comics and Music don't have that physical media limitation any more.
My ereader has changed my life - I bloody love it.
I recently read a paper book after a few months on the ereader, and I did not enjoy it at all - stupid big heavy thing that you have to hold up, taking up too much room in your bag... nah, I'm almost totally digital now (aart from some GNs), and I love it.
Quote from: radiator on 09 January, 2013, 08:40:23 PM
As with DVDs/Blu Rays, I think I'll still continue to buy physical copies of things, but only stuff I really want to savour and revisit again and again.
A healthy attitude to the topic, and one I personally adhere to.
I'd say I'm on average 50/50 digital & print now- no reason why anyone couldn't have the best of both worlds.
For me, digital still feels slightly intransient - it's good for stuff you only want to read/watch once.
I may downsize, but think I'm always going to want a copy of The Terminator sitting on my shelf.
QuoteThey'll last a heck of a lot longer then paper, which can fade, rot, and burn. And if my device ever gets replaced my purchases are tied to my log-in name and can be downloaded again instantly. Not something that can be said if my house burns down or is in a flood.
They'll last as long as the whim of faceless demonically controlled corporations allow. And when you die, they will take the content back. ALONG WITH YOUR SOUL.
QuoteWhat kind of madman takes any kind of paper book anywhere near a water source?
What kind of fool DOESN'T? What about reading beside the pool while on holiday? Or just having a soak?
What kind of maniac doesn't wash? You are clearly a filthy devil worshipper.
QuoteFallacy. You only find these things nostalgic because you have done them for a long time. Once you do something else for a period of time, that thing becomes nostalgic. I've had my iPad for about two months and swiping pages has become second nature and familiar. I actually get annoyed with page turning when I read print now.
Fallacy how? And do you get irritated by "real life"? Do you refuse walks in the country because you can look at photos? Do you see no point in going to see the Mona Lisa because you can Google Image it? Well, you're in luck. You're sleep-walking into a cubic cell with photo walls, where you will be hidden from the sun. BY THE DEVIL.
QuoteUh... I'm generally pretty terrified of my print books/comics/magazines getting wrecked in a bag. My iPad is of sturdy construction and is unlikely to be damaged due to typical motions.
How many books have you ever broken? You are deranged, sir. And I have no interest in your motions, regular or not.
QuoteI'm pretty sure they are manufactured by man for use by man. The devil's got more important things going on.
Well, you would know. Being an obvious devil worshipper! What else does he have to do, apart from inventing machines that cause envy and greed, despoil good things and use up precious rare elements that will inevitably lead to war and the end of mankind? Mmmm?
QuoteThis is a legit problem. Although there has been a bit of movement when it comes to loaning and sharing eContent amongst friends. But it has a way to go to become convient. But its not a really a deal breaker, because I don't loan books very often.
You would if you had friends. Which you don't, what with the whole Satanism thing going on. And the being unwashed bit - pooh!
QuoteFrankly all of your reasonings are a joke because none of them have anything to do with what really matters. The contents. Of which are presented impeccably on eReaders. The object content is presented on is the least important part of reading.
In other words, it was all just as good before the shiny toy came along?
Quote from: The Adventurer on 09 January, 2013, 08:36:30 PM
Quote from: Link PrimeEvil and smug
Not as smug as those who clutch their print books because they see them as 'better'. Because of some ridiculous notion that turning pages is an important part of the reading experience.
I wonder if people had this much of a problem when the printing press took all the ornate woodcarving personalization away. Or when scrolls became obsolete.
Ah, I was only messin.
Sent from my iPad
I've just been reading a whodunnit on my kindle and the killer was a minor character who I could not recall.
If it was a paper book I could have just flicked back to find when they were last mentioned - not so easy on an e-reader.
I still like both
I very badly want an e-reader, but I won't buy one until I can get my hands on a colour e-reader. I find the glare of ipads and their ilk tire my eyes out too quickly.
Over Christmas, Amazon did a Twelve Days of Kindle offer. Loads of books for under a pound for twelve days.
I got 16 good books for under a tenner.
Quote from: Link Prime on 09 January, 2013, 08:27:27 PM
Evil and smug
Quote from: The Adventurer on 09 January, 2013, 08:29:41 PM
QuoteYou can't flick its pages and smell times gone past.
Fallacy. You only find these things nostalgic because you have done them for a long time. Once you do something else for a period of time, that thing becomes nostalgic. I've had my iPad for about two months and swiping pages has become second nature and familiar. I actually get annoyed with page turning when I read print now.
How is that a fallacy?! Books smell. Digital thingies don't. That's pretty unequivocal.
First thing I do when buying/opening a new book is take a big sniff o' the pages, and I can't do that with digital books. The smell/size/paper stock/cover/embossed lettering/weight of a book all add to the expierience in a way that words on a screen just don't. To me the move to digital translates as taking everything unique or tactile or romantic about reading and rendering it all down into something as bland and sterile as possible.
Quote from: Pops on 09 January, 2013, 08:59:12 PM
Over Christmas, Amazon did a Twelve Days of Kindle offer. Loads of books for under a pound for twelve days.
I got 16 good books for under a tenner.
Quote from: Link Prime on 09 January, 2013, 08:27:27 PM
Evil and smug
16 books for under a tenner. Yes, but at what
price?
The day there's an e-reader that can show a full Mike McMahon centre page spread at print size, the Dredd episode still followed by a nostalgic Texan advert (or the like) I'm there.
Actually I do want to go at least part digital but not found a reader I like a enough, mind I still get vinyl so I'm not a man to listen to!
It feels like 'they' won't be happy until absolutely everything I do involves staring at some sort of screen. Reading is one of the very few things I do nowadays that doesn't involve some sort of bloody electronic device, and it's lovely to take a break from the PC and sit down with a book in hand for half an hour. Now they want to take that too?
'Hey guys! Good news! We 'fixed' reading!'
Fuck off! It was never broken! :( And what am I supposed to fill my shelves with when the e-readers have taken over, eh? Goodbye lovely books, with your lovely cover designs and colourful spines, with your unique smells and cherished memories, goodbye many many shelves, goodbye many bookcases - I'm going to spend the rest of my life in a bare room furnished with a chair and an e-reader and only my own tears for company.
I more interested in the words being in the right order, I don't really care what they smell like.
E-readers will never replace books. My Kindle hasn't stopped me buying books. I will still go into charity shops and second-hand book shops to see if they have anything interesting. And you can't beat one of those big Coffee Table Books like the huge educational DK ones about Dinosaurs/The Human Body/Big Cats/Planes/&c, but I'm not taking them anywhere near the bath, never mind carelessly chuck it in a bag.
But I don't have room for a lot of those books.
I've bought more books since getting a Kindle. Books that I've really wanted, but couldn't find any affordable/still-readable second-hand versions
QuoteHow is that a fallacy?! Books smell. Digital thingies don't. That's pretty unequivocal.
First thing I do when buying/opening a new book is take a big sniff o' the pages, and I can't do that with digital books. The smell/size/paper stock/cover/embossed lettering/weight of a book all add to the expierience in a way that words on a screen just don't. To me the move to digital translates as taking everything unique or tactile or romantic about reading and rendering it all down into something as bland and sterile as possible.
I find nothing you describe inherent to the reading experience. I stand by my assertion that it is only a sense of nostalgia brought on by repetition (anything you do regularly gives you a sense of familiarity. Its hardwired into humans as part of our learning behavior). And in short, a fallac argument against digital reading. Which is just as valid as print.
Furthermore I postulate that physical print is in fact a limitation to prose (and by proxy comics), one that confines work to the demands of the financial requirements of publishers and how much it costs to actually print something of X length. (hence why we're paying $3+ for 20 pages of comics work. Its not just how much you pay creators, its literally too expensive to print more pages at that price point)
Whereas digital has no such limiting factors (at least in terms of potential volume). Or if it does, its much further out in terms of maximum length vs print.
Well the comics industry has made much more money out of me since I bought an iPad last month that's for certain.
It's actually lovely to be buying single issues of things again - I swore off monthly comics over a decade ago because of the hassle of getting them, too many ads and the expense, but the Comixology App is an absolute pleasure - I've tried out about 12-14 new comics since I started using it and it's lovely to have something new to read every night at bedtime! And they're usually between 69p and £1.49 each so if you don't like it, no great loss.
There's pros and cons (I'm sticking to print for most trade collections), but to rule out digital entirely is cutting off your nose to spite your face. There's something special about a lovely proper book I can't deny it, but comic art on the retina display has an appeal all of it's own.
In fact I'd probably go digital prog if the digital prog came out on the saturday like the print subscriber edition.
And as far as e-readers go, I don't really have an opinion as I very rarely read any books without pictures in them anyway!
Quote from: The Adventurer on 09 January, 2013, 08:29:41 PM
QuoteYou can't toss it in a bag and be sure it will be readable.
Uh... I'm generally pretty terrified of my print books/comics/magazines getting wrecked in a bag. My iPad is of sturdy construction and is unlikely to be damaged due to typical motions.
QuoteYou can't take an eReader in the bath.
What kind of madman takes any kind of paper book anywhere near a water source?
I'm not a complete technophobe but these two pretty much sum up my reasons for sticking with paper. If I'm heading out for the night, I will invariably stick a book in my jacket pocket to read on the bus or train. There's no telling where I might end up or what state I'll be in when I get there. I might get soaked walking home in the rain (if I get home), lose my jacket in a club or fall over and bash my side off the pavement. I'd rather lose a second hand paperback that cost me two quid than another expensive electronic device.
To be honest, I still find it quite extraordinary that so many people have absolutely no problem with wandering around with a £600 iPad in their bag, whipping it out on public transport or leaving it lying under a chair in the pub when they go for a piss. But that's just me.
I also have a more general issue with the nebulous idea that I can just download my purchase/data again at any point in the future. What happens when the company I originally bought it from goes bust? Or the company they lease server space from? And so on.
QuoteTo be honest, I still find it quite extraordinary that so many people have absolutely no problem with wandering around with a £600 iPad in their bag, whipping it out on public transport or leaving it lying under a chair in the pub when they go for a piss. But that's just me.
Agreed. I have never taken my ipad out of the house, and would probably only do so if I were taking it on holiday or something. I feel awkward enough just carrying around my 18-month old iphone - and I have that insured against theft. Luckily for me I only ever read comics at bedtime.
Bog standard E-readers are hardly expensive though - and getting cheaper all the time.
Reading comics on break at work is a wonderful experience. But I also have a locker that I can safely stash it when I'm not using it.
Of course I can also do other things with it, like browse the internet and doodle in Procreate. Which are major reasons for dragging it around everywhere I can.
I like the feel of physical books, and I still buy them for stand alone books and certain comic collections. Basically stuff I feel good for showing on my bookshelf.
For other things though, I've been trying to transition to my reader for many reasons. There is the case that I want to cut down on physical clutter, as I have only so much bookshelves and space for everything. Being able to travel with books, and thankfully my battery lasts long enough even for an international flight as long as I don't make it obscenely bright. My reader for books uses e-ink, which I like because it's easier on the eyes and is a good fit for extended reading. Plus certain authors whose book series are too long to clutter your bookshelf with.
I use my ipad for comics, and this is pretty much the only way I can reliably read 2000 AD here in the US without waiting for it. I still by physical comics, but only collections (like complete cases files) and the occasional issue.
Digital Readers may be the future,But im fightin' with Dr X Block!
I like both.
For individual comics I go digital. I used to read them on my laptop but a couple of months ago I bought a Nexus 7 tablet. Size wise, it's arguably not as great as an Ipad or Nexus 10 for comics, but it's more portable*, and it actually works out very well. I got used to it pretty quickly. I think I actually prefer it to the larger beasts, great though they are.
For collections I tend to go the physical route.
For novels and other prose, I'd go either way, although my lack of shelf space means I may go more for digital. There's nothing quite like a proper physical book. On the other hand, as someone on here said, it's really the content that matters, and if the story is good, after a while you'll be drawn in regardless of what you're reading it on! And you will often save a couple of pounds, although not always. For some reason the difference in price between hard and soft is often not as large with prose work as it is with comics where newer novels are concerned. Oddly I could often pick up a paperback much cheaper than the Kindle counterpart. (Often it's between hardback and paperback price! I can never quite get my head around paying that much for a non-physical copy, but there you go.) Even cheaper if I don't mind going second hand, (although that's probably to be expected) and often with books I'm happy to go that route.
For prose stuff I use a Kobo touch or (if it's not available for that, like The City Fathers) the kindle app on my Nexus 7.
*Yes, I take it most places with me. Then again I don't have a smartphone and it's my access to the internet while I'm out (not that it's all that important. Strangely, I never missed it much when I didn't have it but now I do, I find myself going online more regularly). If I'm in a wifi spot, I never went for the more expensive mobile-connected version. Also it's a good deal cheaper than an Ipad, but still way too expensive to lose. I find I'm extra careful for that reason though. So far, anyway.
I think digital is great for stuff that you've always wanted to read, but wouldn't go out of your way to buy.
I'd like to read long runs of stuff like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Frank Miller's Daredevil, The Boys, Garth Ennis' Punisher, and Hellblazer, but I don't want to have to buy volume after volume of (in a lot of cases out of print) books to do so - I can just burn my way through the digital editions instead. Of course, not all of these are available on Comixology (and there's room for improvement in how digital trades are organised and priced), but hopefully this will change in time.
You can buy The Boys, for example, in three 'omnibus' bundles, which are £25-30 each. Not bad, really.
It's nice to get free samples (or even free first issues) of stuff too.
Quoteand there's room for improvement in how digital trades are organised and priced
Oh god yes. Some publishers are really good about how they handle digital collections. Other just don't both. DC is really bad when it comes to offering digital collections. Mostly in that they don't. You have to buy everything as single issues.
Quote from: Pops on 09 January, 2013, 09:25:30 PM
E-readers will never replace books. My Kindle hasn't stopped me buying books. I will still go into charity shops and second-hand book shops to see if they have anything interesting. And you can't beat one of those big Coffee Table Books like the huge educational DK ones about Dinosaurs/The Human Body/Big Cats/Planes/&c, but I'm not taking them anywhere near the bath, never mind carelessly chuck it in a bag.
The thing is I think this will happen. As technology improves, and that happening at such a rate it won't be too long, the way people explore that sort of information will change (is changing). Younger folk at the college I work at, while they still use books, are also used to using eResources and the like to explore large complex ideas by moving in and out. Just think how intuitive using something like Google Maps is for many people.
Its also interesting as the more this way of reading takes hold the second hand market will diminish. Great news for the comics publishers. Items that have been sold in back issue bins for years will be made available by them (are available from them). They get the cash with very little additional expense.
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 09 January, 2013, 08:04:22 PM
Whether for books or comics, newspapers or magazines, they lack the tactile longevity of paper. You can't take an eReader in the bath. You can't flick its pages and smell times gone past. You can't toss it in a bag and be sure it will be readable. You can't share it with someone you know will like it.
They are the work of the devil.
I am jumping up and down in my Norn Iron home applauding this post. You are a moral giant sir. A titan and champion of all that is good in this world.
For myself, I inhabit a shadowy netherworld between these poles. Our house is exploding with books, and even after last year's mammoth bookshelving-ebaying-and-charity-shop-donation projects we somehow still have an attic and shed full of piles and boxes. This despite having stopped buying more than a handful of books for the past four or five years, as we've shifted almost exclusively to using the library for financial reasons. In many ways shifting to the library combines the non-ownership and transient aspects of the digital world with the physical experiences of the traditional.
At the same time, I access a lot of older research material in static scanned-print PDF form, and this I bloody hate. However, I have actually bought my first few new digital (RPG) books which I read on my PC, and I've been quite pleasantly surprised by the experience, the cross-referenced maps and links particularly. I only bought them digitally because I couldn't afford the paper version, and more specifically the shipping - I definitely miss the ability to flick back and forth, and to have a handy stack beside the bed. I do suspect that if I had a hand reader/pad device to make things more portable I might not mind this aspect so much.
So. I'm left surrounded by a mountain of lovely mouldering books that permit me all the tactile haptic experiences I could want, but they're pretty much all a decade or more old, and pretty much everything I'm actually reading now is nowhere in evidence. I can't see that a move to digital will change this very much, once I can get over the hurdle of unfamiliarity, but I know I will miss the random encounters with old friends as I move through the house.
I think the whole digital thing with comics comes down to purely to one's personal tastes, for me there's four reasons why I won't touch digitial
1 Another electronic device. There's so much I do with a screen (I work on a screen all day on one, watch TV with the wife, gaming on a screen, browsing net on my phone etc.) I have no desire for my comics to be another one of those activities where I'm staring at a display. Downtime at the end of my day relaxing with something that doesn't need charging is something I look forward to. The only reason I got a Kindle was that the Paperwhite model got to the point where (IMO) it really resembled paper and it's much easier reading 1000+ page sci-fi epics on it than struggling to heave the weight of the hardcover.
2 I don't have a lack of space so digital serves no advantage to me. The ability to have my entire book shelf stored away on a kindle is great because where as with comics which I may read a few times in the same year, books I tend to revisit every few years or never again. So keeping novels I've read really isn't that important but it's nice to know that I still have a book saved if in the rare chance I want to re-read it. I love my longboxes of comics, but I have my converted loft room all to myself so storage isn't a problem in the slightest for me.
3 Price. I couldn't part with the cash for the price of an ereader as I'd just think "I could finish my run of xxxx off" or "I could buy all those TPB volumes I've been wanting to grab"
4 I love the chase! I love hunting down old comics or out of print graphic novels. I love that part of the hobby, going to comixology and hitting "purchase" takes the fun out of it. I like selecting which variant cover I want to own, I like the choice having my TPB or comic signed by the author or artist.
Now if I lived in a small apartment with less time or money to put into comics then I'm sure my decisions would be the total opposite!
Quote from: sheldipez on 10 January, 2013, 09:56:24 AM
1 Another electronic device. There's so much I do with a screen (I work on a screen all day on one, watch TV with the wife, gaming on a screen, browsing net on my phone etc.) I have no desire for my comics to be another one of those activities where I'm staring at a display. Downtime at the end of my day relaxing with something that doesn't need charging is something I look forward to.
This is the main reason for me, that and learning yet another menu/set of buttons/scroll device/wotevea
Quote from: The Prodigal on 10 January, 2013, 07:26:35 AM
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 09 January, 2013, 08:04:22 PM
Whether for books or comics, newspapers or magazines, they lack the tactile longevity of paper. You can't take an eReader in the bath. You can't flick its pages and smell times gone past. You can't toss it in a bag and be sure it will be readable. You can't share it with someone you know will like it.
They are the work of the devil.
I am jumping up and down in my Norn Iron home applauding this post. You are a moral giant sir. A titan and champion of all that is good in this world.
Well that's hardly surprising. Everyone knows we're all backward and live in the past here in Norn Iron
Yeah, iPads are so complicated to use aren't they?
I fully agreed with the OP until I got a kindle. It's an awesome device and I love it. I still have a large collection of books and still buy new physical books, but there is definitely room for both. I love new book smell. I love old book smell. I love my collection of books many of which are over 70 years old, but I also love my kindle. So there.
They literally have studies that show five year olds can navigate an iPad's GUI with out instruction, because its so straight forward.
Literally flabbergasted that readers of a science fiction anthology are so afraid of new technology.
I think the turning point for me was the retina display - before then I was skeptical about digital comics, and was not interested in reading comics on my iphone or desktop computer - but if you haven't read comics on the new ipad, you're being wilfully ignorant and a bit of a luddite to dismiss it out of hand (I know certain anti-digital people on this thread are being a bit tongue in cheek, but others seem quite serious). It really isn't like looking at a conventional screen. I love print as much as the next guy, but print comes with it's own drawbacks in terms of presentation. Comixology is a hugely impressive piece of software - and while there are still a few kinks that need ironing out, using it is an absolute delight. Believe me, scrolling through the beautifully presented menu of all you purchases gives almost - almost - the same warm glow you get from admiring a lovely bookshelf.
To me the downsides of digital are:
The weight of the tablet (not unusably heavy, but still surprising weighty).
The lack of onboard storage (which limits you from carrying around a huge library of comics and trades - anything purchased may be deleted and redownloaded whenever you like, but it still feels impermanent in a slightly finnicky way that bugs the completist mentality).
The nagging sense of vague anxiety that one day all your purchases may become obsolete.
The relative cost/value/fragility of the tablet itself and the various issues that come with that.
The Comixology App occasionally crashes, especially when scrolling quickly (but then you can sometimes accidentally lose your place in a book).
Ummm, that's really all I can think of. The advantage of convenience alone does more than enough to balance them out. Issues like the 'book smell' (though I understand where it comes from) are to me somewhat silly and irrelevant, and a lot of people seem to be really reaching for arguments against digital.
The retina display is what 9' 7'' corner to corner, or something like that I believe, even an american comic is something like 12' corner to corner and for me that does make a difference*
I had a good long play with my Dad's 10 inch display over X-Mas (this wasn't retina of course and it might be apples and oranges?) and the reduced size did bug me. Not sure if that's me finding an excuse or what, but I was conscious of it. Sure you could zoom in, which is fun but kinda chanced the purpose of a full page splash, let a lone a double page splash. I also found the transition between pages too smooth, perverse as that sounds, but its things like the timing of a page turn that help define how a comic works for me.
Another beef I had (I was using Comixology) was if you used the panel by panel function, to try to compensate for the page being smaller, the feel (not of the reproduction that was fine, rather how close in you were) of the art in the panels changed as it zoomed in or out depending on the area being looked at. There might be settings etc that can help with this etc but all this affected my enjoyment.
*Which makes me wonder if its just me being stuck in the mud, as I don't have a beef with the Dark Horse omnibuses and soon get used to their reduced page size.
QuoteI had a good long play with my Dad's 10 inch display over X-Mas
Sorry, I hate it when some smartarse quotes double entendres out of context, but I couldn't resist this time.
As for the zooming in thing, I don't bother with it. It's a neat function, but in my mind it turns a comic into a static storyboard - you lose the flow of a well-designed page. It also pixellates quite a bit.
You should have seen what I first typed, but then I thought I can't use a really greasy double entrendres about my Dad, that's just unpleasant. It would seem I failed to sanitise it completely!
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 10 January, 2013, 11:11:10 AM
Another beef I had (I was using Comixology) was if you used the panel by panel function, to try to compensate for the page being smaller, the feel (not of the reproduction that was fine, rather how close in you were) of the art in the panels changed as it zoomed in or out depending on the area being looked at. There might be settings etc that can help with this etc but all this affected my enjoyment.
I'm unconvinced by Comixology's 'guided view' -- it seems to me to smack of them attempting to 'add value' to their package in effort to justify the (IMO) outrageously large slice of the cover price they take from each book.
Cheers
Jim
Quoteoutrageously large slice of the cover price they take from each book.
I did wonder about how much money goes to the publisher/artists. Seems weird that Marvel and DC would bend over and take it. Maybe they get special terms?
Also makes sense of why 2000ad have their own App, much as I'd prefer to have all my digi comics in one place.
Quote from: radiator on 10 January, 2013, 10:56:14 AM
...but if you haven't read comics on the new ipad, you're being wilfully ignorant and a bit of a luddite to dismiss it out of hand (I know certain anti-digital people on this thread are being a bit tongue in cheek, but others seem quite serious).
I'm half tongue in cheek and half genuinely scared of it all.
I
am a self-confessed luddite. Technology by and large frustrates, baffles and angers me. I was roundly mocked by my brother at Christmas for not understanding how to use my mum's supposedly 'easy to use' ipad but I
hate touchscreen stuff and I simply don't like the mechanics of it. My mobile is 10 years old this year, and I'll try to get one exactly the same when it packs up; I tried to upgrade to a 'better' phone once and had to go back to the older model. I can't so much as text on other people's phones. I have an ipod but I
hate the clumsy little scrolling wheel and would much rather have one with actual
buttons. I stubbornly resisted all attempts from the lecturers at Uni to get me to use Photoshop for any artwork whatsoever, and the harder they pushed the less computer work I did. When someone tries to teach me a new technology I get a tight, panicky feeling in my chest and just want to get as far away from it as possible. And I'm not even 30! I do worry how much worse this is going to get.
I just don't see why people can't leave things as they are and not be constantly trying to 'improve' them.
Quote from: radiator on 10 January, 2013, 10:56:14 AM
Issues like the 'book smell' (though I understand where it comes from) are to me somewhat silly and irrelevant, and a lot of people seem to be really reaching for arguments against digital.
Guilty as charged. I do try to wrack my brains for reasons against digital whenever the subject comes up, but I've never really thought about why - and I suppose if I try and pin it down my kneejerk fear and hatred all basically boils down to a genuine worry that it's going to replace my beloved print, that one day there'll be no more bookshops to browse. If in 20 years the two are co-exisiting happily side by side (and I very much hope this happens) then I'll gladly eat my words - by which point I'll probably be living in a cave, composing angry letters to the Daily Mail on tablets of stone. Still, the future - scary, eh?
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 10 January, 2013, 12:14:58 PM
I just don't see why people can't leave things as they are and not be constantly trying to 'improve' them.
Because we'd all still be living in caves?
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: radiator on 10 January, 2013, 11:58:09 AM
I did wonder about how much money goes to the publisher/artists. Seems weird that Marvel and DC would bend over and take it. Maybe they get special terms?
I chewed this over on my blog (http://clintflickerlettering.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/why-digital-publishing-wont-save-comics.html) a while back. I don't believe the basic facts of the situation have changed much since I wrote that...
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 10 January, 2013, 12:14:58 PM
Quote from: radiator on 10 January, 2013, 10:56:14 AM
...but if you haven't read comics on the new ipad, you're being wilfully ignorant and a bit of a luddite to dismiss it out of hand (I know certain anti-digital people on this thread are being a bit tongue in cheek, but others seem quite serious).
I'm half tongue in cheek and half genuinely scared of it all.
I am a self-confessed luddite. Technology by and large frustrates, baffles and angers me. I was roundly mocked by my brother at Christmas for not understanding how to use my mum's supposedly 'easy to use' ipad but I hate touchscreen stuff and I simply don't like the mechanics of it. My mobile is 10 years old this year, and I'll try to get one exactly the same when it packs up; I tried to upgrade to a 'better' phone once and had to go back to the older model. I can't so much as text on other people's phones. I have an ipod but I hate the clumsy little scrolling wheel and would much rather have one with actual buttons. I stubbornly resisted all attempts from the lecturers at Uni to get me to use Photoshop for any artwork whatsoever, and the harder they pushed the less computer work I did. When someone tries to teach me a new technology I get a tight, panicky feeling in my chest and just want to get as far away from it as possible. And I'm not even 30! I do worry how much worse this is going to get.
I just don't see why people can't leave things as they are and not be constantly trying to 'improve' them.
You have a similar attitude to my girlfriend which I always find incredibly frustrating.
It's entirely your choice whether you use new technology but to fear it and to actively avoid educating yourself about it just seems willfully stupid to me.
I used to read a lot and, due to a change in lifestyle, stopped. I tried to start again but never seemed to manage it. Then Kindle happened and I'm reading all the time now.
It's just right for me. It's comfortable to hold. I can adjust the text size and the lighting is perfect. I can buy books easily. Reading material's cheap enough that I don't feel pressured to finish books if I lose interest. I can dip in and out of books without having to carry lots around with me.
I feel very guilty about it, especially as I work in printed media, but my e-reader is perfect for me. I understand why others like paper books - fair enough; I hope you keep enjoying them - but digital has brought back my love of books.
- Trout
Personally, I can see a lot more use in an iPad than a Kindle but that's because reading isn't one of the things I'd use the iPad for.
Out of interest, is there a significant difference in the price of digital vs print comics? I can easily see how someone like Adventurer is going to save himself the cost of his iPad in six months if there is.
Radiator mentioned having to delete/redownload content from Comixology. Are you not able to make your own separate backup of something you've already paid for?
I have no objection to digital content but a lot of the time it doesn't fit with the way I buy and consume books and comics. I go through a reasonable amount of books and that's probably split 40/30/30 between second hand, library and new. I bought two novels yesterday and, checking Amazon, the Kindle edition of each is maybe a pound less than the print version but that's still 4 or 5 quid more than I paid.
If I could be arsed, I could probably stick them both on eBay or Amazon marketplace and recoup most of that initial outlay. That's not something I really do with books but it is a consideration when I'm buying comics. I'll keep stuff I like but I'm always conscious, especially with TPBs, that I shouldn't have a problem getting something back from it if it's not a keeper. With digital copies there doesn't seem to be that option.
This could be my ignorance but it seems to me that one of the major downsides to digital media is that the vendor in some way retains control after you have paid for the product. With the lack of a secondary market reselling content my option is pirate it or pay the full price for a legitimate copy. I mentioned earlier concerns over the site you buy from going tits up. Maybe that's unlikely but how do you get a digital copy of a comic from a publisher who has since gone bust? What about the digital equivalent of Miracleman: when the work itself is subject to some dispute it becomes a simple matter to stop the sale of legitimate copies, so how do the interested get a copy without piracy?
I realise all these are pretty niche, theoretical cases but it's all part of a general paranoiac mistrust I have for some things. Coming soon: why the rumoured lockout of second hand games means I may never buy another console!
Quote from: The Adventurer on 10 January, 2013, 10:22:02 AM
Literally flabbergasted that readers of a science fiction anthology are so afraid of new technology.
Never really get this objection. It's a bit like being surprised that fans of detective fiction don't really like murder.
QuoteYou have a similar attitude to my girlfriend which I always find incredibly frustrating.
It's entirely your choice whether you use new technology but to fear it and to actively avoid educating yourself about it just seems willfully stupid to me.
Yeah, my sister does this whole flustered 'oh I don't understand all this modern technology' routine (she's only 31) to the point where it just becomes an affectation - a deliberate, conscious lifestyle choice to be fusty and behind the times (and what makes it more irritating is that I can't prize he away from my iPad, Mac and TV whenever she comes to visit). It's like people who don't own a TV, who in my experience only don't own a TV so they can tell people (at every available opportunity) that they don't own a TV, as if doing so makes them appear some sort of wild, creative bohemian academic living on the fringes of society.
With the phone thing, I understand it - in fact my last phone cost £5 and was pay as you go. I'm not a phone person and rarely used it other than texts and alarm clock, so the cheaper and the longer the battery lasted between charges the better. I could never understand the fascination with them, pre smartphone when they were just a means to an end, and I only got a modern phone when they reached the point where they could literally do
thousands of different things and be genuinely useful in so many ways to me.
By the same token, while I'm no luddite I've never understood the fetishising of gadgets for gadgets sake - like my brother in law who is endlessly buying the latest handheld/camera/laptop etc etc, doesn't really do anything with it apart from fiddle with the settings and show it off, then after a few months it ends up in the garage gathering dust with all the other junk.
Quote from: Supermarine Troutfire on 10 January, 2013, 12:49:47 PM
I feel very guilty about it, especially as I work in printed media, but my e-reader is perfect for me. I understand why others like paper books - fair enough; I hope you keep enjoying them - but digital has brought back my love of books.
Cool. Reading is definitely the important part, however you do it. I actually feel a bit weird arguing against it because I've always felt the fetishisation of the object over the content - particularly talking about record collectors here - is idiotic.
Quoteespecially with TPBs, that I shouldn't have a problem getting something back from it if it's not a keeper. With digital copies there doesn't seem to be that option.
But that was my main reason for going digital. I can now, on a whim, instantly download the first issue of a new series I've heard about (generally costing £1.49 but sometimes less or even free), and see if I like it, thereby cutting out the whole hassle of buying a trade, not liking it and having to go through the pain of selling it on to scrape some money back.
I've only ever tried reading comics on PC and to be blunt it was shit. Scrolling about from panel to panel, zooming in on writing and totally fucked for double page spreads. I understand things are better now with handheld devices but I still like to see my prize sitting on a shelf once I've read it. I also don't think people here consider the entry price of buying I-pads*and whatnot before you've read/done anything can put people off, we're not all minted. I know you can do much more on them but so can all the other shit I have cluttering up the house.
Saying all that though I got the wife a kindle for xmas but haven't had a chance to fart about with it yet.
So erm aye I'm with Dr X on this one, for the moment.
*I won't be buying an I-pad anytime soon as I've witnessed too many good folk turn into elitist twats!
For me, this all boils down to convenience versus permanence. As others have said, the relatively fragile nature of digital media is a problem. If you're buying into an ecosystem and the ecosystem disappears, what then? The thing is, with the sheer wealth of media we have access to these days (i.e. most people are not just sitting there with a dozen albums and a few cherished and well-thumbed books), I'm not sure that even matters any more.
For me, shiny discs are over. I'm even reluctant to buy new stuff, because even the shoddy UK Netflix selection is keeping Mrs G and I busy in terms of tele. With music, I don't want more CDs, so I'd rather just download. DVDs: we have loads in shrinkwrap. We have seasons of Doctor Who we've never rewatched, because there's too much new stuff to view instead. There are exceptions: we often rewatch Firefly, West Wing and a few other shows; but even then, the former's on Netflix and the latter soon will be.
Books... Mrs G's happier with her Kindle for the most part, but I'm still the holdout when it comes to comics. With 2000 AD, I think it's in part because I want to support the company, and so I still subscribe to the paper version. I also have a slightly mad collector's mentality when it comes to that comic (and the Meg), but that is very rarely the case elsewhere.
Frankly, I'd be happy to buy most other comics in digital, but I think for collections I'd want them to be cheaper. If Walking Dead was, say, three or four quid per 'trade', I'd buy them all tomorrow. Having read the first two, I know I'll only read them once, so I wouldn't care if they were digital and might go away one day. But I'm not paying the same price that I can get them in stores for digital copies. By contrast, I know I'll re-read certain things (Usagi Yojimbo, Nikolai Dante) and so want those in paper. And a few things are so special to me that I'll happily pay for stupidly expensive editions, to cherish for as long as possible (Hellboy, Calvin and Hobbes).
In a more general sense, though, the trend is obvious. I was so glad when Rebellion put out its 2000 AD iPad app, because I was concerned the company might be not pushing into an area that's becoming increasingly important. In the event, it's one of the best comic apps out there, and, importantly, Rebellion itself controls everything. I really hope it's doing well for the company, although I suspect I'll only switch to it when Tharg one day tells us that the Dictators of Zrag have stolen all the paper and so the mag's going digital-only. (And I hope by then the iPad weighs half as much but also has the same or a longer battery life. That's really the holy grail in electronics, and it will happen sooner than we think.)
QuoteI've only ever tried reading comics on PC and to be blunt it was shit. Scrolling about from panel to panel, zooming in on writing and totally fucked for double page spreads. I understand things are better now with handheld devices
I once tried to read comics off a monitor and found it unbearable. There's a world of difference on a tablet.
QuoteI still like to see my prize sitting on a shelf once I've read it.
But why? Realistically speaking, how many more times are you going to read it? I want to have the classics on my shelf, but there's a lot of stuff that in all likelihood I'm only going to want to read once.
QuoteI also don't think people here consider the entry price of buying I-pads*and whatnot before you've read/done anything can put people off, we're not all minted. I know you can do much more on them but so can all the other shit I have cluttering up the house.
Well yes, I noted initial cost as a negative point. Also, you don't have to get an iPad - there are a whole range of tablets to suit most budgets and needs. The Kindle Fire HD is what? £250? Hardly out of the realms of possibility
QuoteFrankly, I'd be happy to buy most other comics in digital, but I think for collections I'd want them to be cheaper. If Walking Dead was, say, three or four quid per 'trade', I'd buy them all tomorrow. Having read the first two, I know I'll only read them once, so I wouldn't care if they were digital and might go away one day. But I'm not paying the same price that I can get them in stores for digital copies. By contrast, I know I'll re-read certain things (Usagi Yojimbo, Nikolai Dante) and so want those in paper. And a few things are so special to me that I'll happily pay for stupidly expensive editions, to cherish for as long as possible (Hellboy, Calvin and Hobbes).
Pretty much exactly how I feel about it - even down to your opinions on Dante, Usagi, Hellboy and C&H!
Definitely agree that digital 'trades' need to be cheaper - £3.99/£4.99 seems reasonable to me, depending on page count etc.
I also think if you've already bought issue one of a series and decide to get the trade you should get a discount.
I've also noticed a slight sloppiness - I've been reading a lot of the early B&W Ninja Turtles comics, and volume 4 seems to start really abruptly, as if I'd skipped a whole issue. Only found out when I got to the end of the book that the first and last issues had been swapped round, which bugged me a bit.
Quote from: radiator on 10 January, 2013, 01:14:51 PM
QuoteYou have a similar attitude to my girlfriend which I always find incredibly frustrating.
It's entirely your choice whether you use new technology but to fear it and to actively avoid educating yourself about it just seems willfully stupid to me.
my last phone cost £5 and was pay as you go. I'm not a phone person and rarely used it other than texts and alarm clock, so the cheaper and the longer the battery lasted between charges the better.
That's just an affectation - a deliberate, conscious lifestyle choice to be fusty and behind the times. People who don't own the latest phone, who in my experience don't own the latest phone so they can tell people (at every available opportunity) that they don't own the latest phone, as if doing so makes them appear some sort of wild, creative bohemian academic living on the fringes of society.
just joshing ;)
My missus is always reading but I never bought her a Kindle because she acquires books from friends, reads and passes them on. She hardly ever buys a book (I must have a word with her about that, the She Pirate Devil).
I foolishly went digital on my PC but never had time to read the Prog (well, I did really but I just kept getting "distracted" so maybe it was me just putting off an unpleasant experience). Then I got me Samsung tablet.
It's a ten incher and I can easily whip it out on the train to give me twenty minutes of undisturbed thrill power.
Despite being smaller than the printed page and even though it's not a retina display thingy, some of the art springs to life when backlit. Really lovely to look at.
I quite like the simple trip to the Digital Prog shop on Wednesday night as well. I think it saves me about 40p per prog (and I have over a hundred now so it's slowly paying for itself).
Plus, the tablet has become the go to browser in the house if anybody needs to look anything up quickly.
But like Cosh, I wouldn't take it out on a night out with me as I couldn't guarantee it's safety (oddly I do take my 3DS though).
Anyway, I download the prog as cbz and use Comic Rack to read. Still haven't cracked double page spreads yet. Is there a better tool for Prog Reading?
The idea of picking up THE BOYS as an omnibus might be a good one. I'm looking for something to fill the gap between Walking Dead trades (which I still buy paper).
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 10 January, 2013, 01:31:16 PM
In a more general sense, though, the trend is obvious. I was so glad when Rebellion put out its 2000 AD iPad app, because I was concerned the company might be not pushing into an area that's becoming increasingly important.
As I'm sure you all know already I speak from a position of absolute ignorance, but its never stopped me.
The thing is with that Rebellion do seem highly bias towards Apple (I'm right in saying you can't get the 2000ad App on Android right? At least I failed to this X-Mas if not). Now I think this is cos to develop for Apple means developing one thing that works on multiple Apple platforms (right? Damn this is going to turn into a string of questions!). To develop for Android is far more complex as it has to work on so many different platforms that have different variations (right???).
The thing is though as a consumer most won't care about this and will pick the higher end product based on that product rather than whether a specific app is available for it... so what I'm saying, or asking really, is Rebellion making a mistake not getting an Android app out to go with the Apple one in a more timely fashion?
Or do comic readers all tend to go for Apples? What proportion of the market do Apple have, compared to Android, in my head I haver the figure 40% but I have NO idea really?
We're not biased towards Apple - it's just an easier and less fragmented market to develop for and reach. Android apps required shedloads of optimization work because of the huge number of devices (we know about this - we've been optimizing Judge Dredd vs. Zombies for a year now) and it comes down to the fact that Apple user spend far and away more than Android users do. Proportionally they may outnumber Apple users, but their markets and stores are all over the place. The returns are simply higher on Apple.
It's also worth bearing in mind that Apple Newsstand provides us with a lot of the developing legwork already done, for high returns. An Android app would have to be built from the ground up for a smaller return. So I hope you can understand the business logic at work here.
Am I right in saying that you can get 2000ad on Android, but just not via the App?
Quote from: radiator on 10 January, 2013, 03:17:35 PM
Am I right in saying that you can get 2000ad on Android, but just not via the App?
Yep, all the comics available through our online store are Android-and-other-tablets-that-can-read-PDFs friendly.
For anyone who wants more insight into mobile app development, it's worth reading the BBC's experiences with its iPlayer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2012/12/android_update.html) and Sports (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2013/01/sport_app.html) apps. (Those are just two articles—there have been plenty more.) In the latter case, the iOS is coming out first; in the former case, the iOS app had more functionality and it's taking a long time to get the Android one to feature parity.
Predictably, the comments of such articles are full of Android users whining, entirely ignoring the BBC's points. These centre on the fragmentation that Molch-R mentioned, but it goes further than that—in the BBC's case, the team's mentioned plenty of times that it spends more resources on Android than iOS, but manages to achieve less due to system issues (not least video playback, but also other things). Coupled with Molch-R's point about Android users en masse spending significantly less than iOS users per head and you have a recipe for risk, especially if you're not a company like EA or Rovio who can just fling resources at the wall to see what sticks. (This is also something I've heard first-hand from a large number of devs, not least indie's who've found iOS's piracy issues nothing compared to rampant bootlegging on Android, and the relatively low number of people on Android willing to pay for anything.)
In terms of the overall market-share, which Colin asked about, that varies wildly, depending on what figures you believe. In smartphones, however, Android outpaces iOS about 2:1. However, all new Apple devices have the same OS, and at least the last two revisions of each device can upgrade freely. Devs state the uptake of the new OS is astonishingly fast. Android, however, has a huge number of devices, all with different capabilities, and a range of operating systems, based on different flavours of Android. From a development standpoint, Android is therefore much costlier.
Also, sales aren't the only figure. I write a lot for design and tech mags, and reports regularly show the disconnect between sales (or at least shipped units) and usage. At all points, web traffic from iOS significantly outperforms web traffic from iOS. Income from apps also outperforms Android. The only realistic conclusion is that while there are far more Android users, plenty of them use their devices much like dumbphones, rather than as computers and media players. This makes Android's pure numbers advantage significantly smaller than it would first appear. On tablets, the market's the other way around. The iPad sells more than everything else combined, and you've the added complication of one of the most popular Android tablets, the Kindle Fire, not really being Android per se at all.
I'm not sure how this will all shake out. I hope we end up with a number of major players, all driving each other on. The last thing we need in tech is another Microsoft Windows era, with one hugely dominant player essentially taking all. But right now, it's pretty clear Apple's platform is the first and most important place to go for any company that wants a shot at making some money, and that's why they do so.
EDIT: Also read Rory Cellan-Jones on Answers about Android (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20754182).
Quote from: Molch-R on 10 January, 2013, 03:11:22 PM
So I hope you can understand the business logic at work here.
This is the INTERNET, what the feck are you thinking?
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 10 January, 2013, 03:42:39 PM
For anyone who wants more insight into mobile app development, it's worth reading the BBC's experiences with its iPlayer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2012/12/android_update.html) and Sports (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2013/01/sport_app.html) apps. (Those are just two articles—there have been plenty more.) In the latter case, the iOS is coming out first; in the former case, the iOS app had more functionality and it's taking a long time to get the Android one to feature parity.
Predictably, the comments of such articles are full of Android users whining, entirely ignoring the BBC's points. These centre on the fragmentation that Molch-R mentioned, but it goes further than that—in the BBC's case, the team's mentioned plenty of times that it spends more resources on Android than iOS, but manages to achieve less due to system issues (not least video playback, but also other things). Coupled with Molch-R's point about Android users en masse spending significantly less than iOS users per head and you have a recipe for risk, especially if you're not a company like EA or Rovio who can just fling resources at the wall to see what sticks. (This is also something I've heard first-hand from a large number of devs, not least indie's who've found iOS's piracy issues nothing compared to rampant bootlegging on Android, and the relatively low number of people on Android willing to pay for anything.)
In terms of the overall market-share, which Colin asked about, that varies wildly, depending on what figures you believe. In smartphones, however, Android outpaces iOS about 2:1. However, all new Apple devices have the same OS, and at least the last two revisions of each device can upgrade freely. Devs state the uptake of the new OS is astonishingly fast. Android, however, has a huge number of devices, all with different capabilities, and a range of operating systems, based on different flavours of Android. From a development standpoint, Android is therefore much costlier.
Also, sales aren't the only figure. I write a lot for design and tech mags, and reports regularly show the disconnect between sales (or at least shipped units) and usage. At all points, web traffic from iOS significantly outperforms web traffic from iOS. Income from apps also outperforms Android. The only realistic conclusion is that while there are far more Android users, plenty of them use their devices much like dumbphones, rather than as computers and media players. This makes Android's pure numbers advantage significantly smaller than it would first appear. On tablets, the market's the other way around. The iPad sells more than everything else combined, and you've the added complication of one of the most popular Android tablets, the Kindle Fire, not really being Android per se at all.
I'm not sure how this will all shake out. I hope we end up with a number of major players, all driving each other on. The last thing we need in tech is another Microsoft Windows era, with one hugely dominant player essentially taking all. But right now, it's pretty clear Apple's platform is the first and most important place to go for any company that wants a shot at making some money, and that's why they do so.
EDIT: Also read Rory Cellan-Jones on Answers about Android (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20754182).
I can say with all honesty that I did not understand a word of this.
Quote from: The Prodigal on 10 January, 2013, 09:40:09 PMI can say with all honesty that I did not understand a word of this.
Android is harder to develop for than iPhone/iPad, and Android users spend less money per head and are less likely to use their devices for tasks other than phone calls and text messaging. Therefore, companies concentrate on iPhone/iPad, even though Android has higher sales. Better?
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 10 January, 2013, 11:38:24 PM
Android is harder to develop for than iPhone/iPad, and Android users spend less money per head and are less likely to use their devices for tasks other than phone calls and text messaging. Therefore, companies concentrate on iPhone/iPad, even though Android has higher sales. Better?
Yep. To reinforce this... I've worked for two companies starting up in digital comics who've both been pilloried by fans for "favouring" Apple with an iOS release months ahead of an Android one. But, misplaced sense of entitlement notwithstanding, how hard is it to understand
this business decision:
1) All other things being equal, given finite development resources, you'll want to develop product for the platform that provably delivers more paying customers. This not fanboy rhetoric; as IP says -- iOS users demonstrably spend more money via their platform than Android users.
2) All other things are NOT equal, because developing for Android means hitting multiple hardware
and software configurations.
So... expend more development resources to target the platform that (in the tablet market) delivers minority market share and (in both phone and tablet markets) delivers a fraction of the revenue from paid downloads.
Rocket science, this is not.
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 10 January, 2013, 11:38:24 PM
Quote from: The Prodigal on 10 January, 2013, 09:40:09 PMI can say with all honesty that I did not understand a word of this.
Android is harder to develop for than iPhone/iPad, and Android users spend less money per head and are less likely to use their devices for tasks other than phone calls and text messaging. Therefore, companies concentrate on iPhone/iPad, even though Android has higher sales. Better?
You're as sound as they come Indigo. Thank you.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 11 January, 2013, 12:49:01 AM
So ... expend more development resources to target the platform that [...] delivers minority market share and [...] delivers a fraction of the revenue from paid downloads.
Speaking as an Apple user since the mid 80's, I hope Steve Jobs appreciated this irony as much as I do.
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 09 January, 2013, 08:04:22 PM
Whether for books or comics, newspapers or magazines, they lack the tactile longevity of paper. You can't take an eReader in the bath. You can't flick its pages and smell times gone past. You can't toss it in a bag and be sure it will be readable. You can't share it with someone you know will like it.
They are the work of the devil.
I always read your scripts on my Kindle or iPad. ;)
As for comics, definitely hard copy kind of guy, though that being said, I do now prefer to read novels on my kindle. Read the Dredd: City Fathers on there, and I must say being able to easily scroll from page to page, or having the damn thing read it out to me in a robot voice when my eyes were too tired to carry on definitely appealed to my lazier side.
eReaders are no doubt perfectly decent as a technology, I cannot bring myself to touch them though. They seem artless and soulless to me.
When, and if, I ever have to make the leap, it will be to an iPad app, no question. Integrated hardware and software is the only way to deliver a decent user experience. The Android approach is basically a replication of what Windows did on home computers, and it has been shit for the whole PC era. We don't want our smartphones and tablets hobbled the same way.
I find it works pretty well on my Nexus 7!
Oh, there's nothing quite like a proper paper comic and bigger is better for e-viewing comics (in which case there's the Ipad-rivalling-but-much-cheaper Nexus 10) but as a balance between readability and portability it works very well. One of the best purchases I've made I reckon. And the size issue isn't much of an issue at all once you get into the story.