Hey you guys! Thrillpowered Thursday has resumed, with the focus now on 2009. Today, it's how amazing Richard Elson's artwork is, and how not-amazing Steve Yeowell's artwork is. So we've been complaining about how awful Red Seas looks for four years now!
Here's the thing (http://bit.ly/YkGoo5).
In future installments: Zombo, Dandridge, Savage, and Tour of Duty. I hope you enjoy them.
A great read as always, Grant!
wot'e said ^
As ever great to have you back and... and... well as ever I'll bear my fangs at what you say. Though its fair to say you only repeat what many have said here before, so taking it out on you seems a little harsh. So I'll open up my salvo on everyone
STEVE YEOWELL IS STILL CHUFFIN' INCREDIBLE.
There has everyone got that.
Not enough just to shout you say.
Okay how about this. Go dig out Zenith Book 3, go on do it, dig it out and look through it. This for me is Steve Yeowell's, well... ahem... zenith artistically (WHICH IS NOT TO SAY HE'S NOT AMAZING NOW... right okay, okay I'll calm down... okay...) have a look at it. Its bold, its simple, its uses the bare minimum to set the scene and tell the tale. Not in a too lazy to do anything else way, but in an Alex Toth less is more way. Look at its its just plain brilliant.
There's a panel in the last part of Book 3 of three of the 'heroes' stood on the horizon in the snow. Look how simple it is, look how chuffin' simple it is (of course if you've not dug it out this is meaningless and no I don't realistically expect anyone to dig it out, but I can promise you its burnt onto my memory) look how much it conveys. The only real difference between his Red Seas work and this is he's goes less black, he leaves a lot more white, there's less contrast. Why, well I can't speak for him, but to me it makes it lighter and fresher, much like the stories in Zenith and Red Seas. Red Seas is a frothy high adventure and his economic art conveys that quite beautifully.
So now you've all been told, can we allstop the Steve Yeowell doesn't care anymore thing... oh oh oh that reminds me...
I asked Steve Yeowell about Red Seas a couple of years ago, 18 months maybe. I said it always felt like it was telling one tale and how much more was there to go. What did he say. And of course I paraphrase here.
'We're almost there, its just we keep coming up with more and more ideas that delay us getting to the end.'
Not Ian, not Tharg, but we, WE. I genuinely think he still really enjoys the series. He might of course have been soft soaping me as I handed him a Red Seas splash to sign and was therefore clearly a fan. He might have been choosing to say that as he's a professional and saying "Well Ian keeps draggin' it out and I want to see it through, but God its a drag and I just want it over." might not have been the done thing. But he seemed an honest man, so I'll take him at his word. I personally still see the joy in his work that I saw as that giant shark jumped out the water all those years ago and the last few issues must surely convince some others that's still the case?
Now will some one help me down from this high horse please...
No, the last few issues' installments of Red Seas have featured some of the worst episodes of anything that 2000 AD has printed in *years*. Even setting aside Yeowell's lazy art, for four weeks, it's been nothing but "Oh, yeah, well MY magical secret weapon is greater than YOUR magical secret weapon!" It's been zombies beaten back by robots, so introduce great big zombies, so introduce great big robots. There's no sense of danger or drama, because the protagonists are not actually doing anything anymore.
I had a similar complaint about the last Ampney Crucis story, the one with all the orange and the helicopter packs. I'm not opposed to an occasional indulgence, but I'd like each installment to advance the plot somewhat, and not leave all the characters *exactly* as they were beforehand. Once in a while, sure, but not one thing has happened to Dancer and the gang since episode two. That's a full month of NOTHING HAPPENING, and, yes, the art is completely awful. Yeowell is certainly capable of magic. I'll agree that there's a good deal of Toth in Zenith Phase III, but look at the difference. Then, he was using shadow and light, and brilliantly.
I'm looking at episode five of the current story now - prog 1816. It's not merely the lack of backgrounds that make the story so unpleasant. Where are the light sources in this convenient combat arena? Trick question: the light is actually behind the camera at all times, and turned up to maximum. That said, at the bottom of page three, there's an interesting trick where something obscures Dancer in shadow - ah ha! Ink! - but then on page four, we get the cheat of the revelation of the really big zombies in a different location entirely - so what threw the shadow over Dancer?
I'll add that this episode of "Fire Across the Deep" features exactly seventeen panels. Value for money!
Honestly, the more I analyze Red Seas, the angrier I get. Even at its most wheel-spinning a few years back, Sinister Dexter was always interesting to look at. This is dull, flat, boring artwork from a master capable of much, much better, servicing a dull, flat, boring story.
Just as well I'm loving the other four stories running now!
Anyway, next week, I'm going to talk about Hector Ezquerra joining his pa, and how downright freaking wonderful "Blood Moon" is.
I applaud your continued spirited defence of Yeowell, Colin, but I have to agree with the Hipster.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 31 January, 2013, 12:57:49 PM
Okay how about this. Go dig out Zenith Book 3, go on do it, dig it out and look through it. This for me is Steve Yeowell's, well... ahem... zenith artistically (WHICH IS NOT TO SAY HE'S NOT AMAZING NOW... right okay, okay I'll calm down... okay...) have a look at it. Its bold, its simple, its uses the bare minimum to set the scene and tell the tale. Not in a too lazy to do anything else way, but in an Alex Toth less is more way. Look at its its just plain brilliant....
Well I've never read Zenith, so I can't comment on how good he may or may not have been back in the 80's(?) and it's a bit odd to cite such old stories as proof that he's 'still incredible.' I can only judge him on the work I've seen, and year by year it gets increasingly blank, white and... God, I really hate to say it, but
bland.
I would never claim his work is
bad, which is a distinction I'd like to stress - I mean, you can't fault his grasp of anatomy or sense of scale, or construction of page layouts. It's obvious the guy can draw. That's never been in question. For me it's that there's so litte
flair. There's no fun, no detail, no whimsy, it gives you the absolute minimum required to tell the story and absolutely no more (though ironically you cite this as a positive!) And it's probably worth saying that he's the only- ONLY - artist in Tharg's stable whose art I just don't like however hard I try.
Book 2 of Red Seas - Twilgiht of the Idols - opened with a double splash page of Jack drowning his sorrows in the Jolly Cripple tavern. There are cheeky cameos of Captain Pugwash and other famous fictional pirates positively
crammed into the background, clinking tankards or cheating at cards - the wood looks rough and grainy, the shadows are deep and dark, the walls are dirty and beer-stained - the whole thing is bursting with life and energy and detail. Now that was the art of someone thoroughly having fun working on a tale of 17th century pirates and really playing off the incongruity of a big twin dog's head floating in a glass bottle. Fast forward however-many-years-it's-been and all that magic's long since gone. There's not been anything so fun or lively for an age.
Well, there's no debating the greatness of John Higgins and Carlos Ezquerra, and in today's installment (http://today's%20installment), I have lots of nice things to say about Greysuit and one of my all-time favorite Strontium Dog adventures.
If you enjoy the blog, then an ad click is appreciated, but passing the world along via Twitter or FB is even better. Numbers last week were a little better than they have been in general - possibly thanks to Colin checking back again and again in sheer disbelief over what I had to say about Yeowell - but this one's not controversial and all about the love, so tell your friends!
That there link isn't doing it for me, Mr. G. Try this'un instead: http://thrillpoweredthursday.blogspot.ie/2013/02/191-ginger-ninja.html (http://thrillpoweredthursday.blogspot.ie/2013/02/191-ginger-ninja.html)
Durrr. Internet hard and edit window missed. I'll do better next week. :lol:
See the thing about Steve Yeo... oh we've all moved on have we... okay.
Not as much to fight about this week as Grant predicts. Not to say I can't find a little wiggle room as I'm a big fan of Greysuits and not just the art. I thought it was all great fun and can't wait for it back. No denying it goes a little loopy at times, but then is that a bad thing?
Carlos stuff just yes really.
Alas not really Facetwittering I've stuck to clickin' on the ads and seem to be bookin' a flight to Greece... what fun! Reminds me of the metal Grecian warriors in Red... what I need to let this go... oh okay...
Sorry Colin. Up until quite recently I would've agreed with you but it really does now seem like Yeowell's done a bit of an Ian Gibson on this series even though I've continued to enjoy the storyline. I'm about to start a reread of the whole saga, so I'll see if I can pinpoint where I think it goes wrong. Even quite recently there were a couple of stories where the script called for him to do a few pages in a totally different style and suddenly we were back to something quite lovely.
As an aside, my own standout panel from Zenith III is a simple headshot of Mantra heavily shaded on one side like Colonel Kurtz.
As for this week. Personally, I thought Ezquerra's art took a fairly big stutter around the time Hector started getting co-credits. Suddenly, little bits of anatomy are slightly off and faces become inconsistent between panels. Things you could never have said before. I do, however, agree about Blood Moon being a cracking story. At the time I remember thinking (hoping) that he was going to be a recurring villain over a story or two but then SD's never really had that.
The less said about Greysuit the better.
Funnily enough I have a Red Seas re-read lined up on my to read list (spreadsheet), I reckon maybe 4 or 5 months off but coming, I think we had a similar thing with our respective Sinister Dexter re-reads (I won't start on that one Grant I promise). I'd be very interested in what you have to say in Red Seas.
Quote from: The Cosh on 07 February, 2013, 01:12:59 PM
Personally, I thought Ezquerra's art took a fairly big stutter around the time Hector started getting co-credits. Suddenly, little bits of anatomy are slightly off and faces become inconsistent between panels.
^This.
Can Johnny have his old nose back please Mr. Ezquerra?
If I can win at Internet and make a link work, then today's post (http://bit.ly/Ve9WqD) talks about Low Life with its new artist, D'Israeli, and the dashing debut of Dandridge. Whoever it is that's sharing, thanks a lot! Numbers are up very nicely compared to recently, and nobody's sending me any hate mail, so I'm assuming everybody is enjoying it. Yay.
Well there is probably loads to discuss about this weeks post (well actually I might agree with what you say, though I'm not a massive Dandridge fan overall), but I'm too damned excited looking forward to next weeks post. As side from wishing my life away I'm assuming, as we always see things the same, you'll be declaring Prog 1633 the official start of the NuGoldenage (tm all rights reserved). These things are hard to define but whenever forced to (as so often people force you to commit to a specific Prog as the mark of the NuGoldenage (tm all rights reserved) this is the one I choose).
Go on Grant are dare you to say otherwise...
HEY!
Quit peeking ahead at my rough drafts!
(Actually, that's so amazingly creepy that I'll revise next week's to incorporate that thought, although 1633 is not quite the prog on the scanner.)
The 'Nu' Golden Age started in Prog 2004. This is indisputable (in my mind)
You can go 1632 and there's a definite logic to that, but I go 1633 'cos its the first with both Cradlegrave and Zombo in it and is as far as I'm concerned the first in what been many 5 for 5 issues since then.
Have you waited long enough? In today's installment (http://bit.ly/ZiKXQq), it's a little bit about Zombo - more shall surely be written when Susan Boyle shows up - and a whole lot about Cradlegrave. Enjoy!
Darn you, Goggans - I enjoyed your waxing lyrical on Cradlegrave so much that I've just wasted most of a morning reading your recent bookshelf entries.
As ever it was a great read Grant.
One of the true signs of things that marks Cradlegrave as a truly great story is whenever you read a positive review of it there's always, ALWAYS something new said that maybe you'd thought of, but hadn't quite said, or found a way to express. I remember I did a review of the strip for Rich over at ECBT 2000ad a couple of years ago, or whatever it was now, some Halloween when it was released in trade. Anyway I wrote this review and tried to say as much about what made it great as I could possibly, reasonably fit in. Posted alongside my review was one by Greg M of these pastures and by Christ it made me want to tear up mine and simply change it to "What Greg said", even though he failed to touch on points I had made, which I'd stand by. I read a few more and each time I'd shudder and think, chuffin' hell how did I not mention that in my review.
Now Grant comes along does the exact same thing. However many times it gets a positive review, there's always different things reflected that mark it as brilliant. That is surly a sign that a piece of literature is an incredibly deep and dense work that offers so much to the reader?
QuoteNow Grant comes along does the exact same thing. However many times it gets a positive review, there's always different things reflected that mark it as brilliant. That is surly a sign that a piece of literature is an incredibly deep and dense work that offers so much to the reader?
This particular Thrillpowered Thursday was especially excellent: as Colin rightly suggests, there's so much in 'Cradlegrave' that no matter who pokes and prods at it, it always disgorges something new and different. I was particularly interested by Grant's non-British perspective - I find I pretty much take for granted the fundamentally British nature of the whole council estate set-up in the story, and all the layers of cultural baggage that come attached.
What impresses me most about 'Cradlegrave' is something which Grant touches on when he talks about how finely crafted it is - Smith's degree of control. Smith has long been, to my mind, one of the finest writers in the medium, but in his earlier work, control was never something he could be accused of. The likes of 'Cinnabar' were quite the opposite: wildly out of control, with everything managing to tie itself together at the end due to some kind of subconscious connective thread it sounds like Smith didn't even know he was laying. I wasn't as fond of Smith's work when I felt the likes of Dave Bishop were actively trying to make him more disciplined (and dare I say it mainstream) in his writing, as I felt the sheer poetic craziness was being lost. 'Cradlegrave' to me feels like Smith becoming disciplined
but on his own terms.
I'm very glad that this one seems to have gone over pretty well with you guys! Thanks.
Great write up. This period occurred in my short unintentional two year hiatus from the Prog. I'd pick up again in 2011, and then eventually fill in both 2009 and 2010 runs in last years Shop sale. So the first time I read Cradlegrave and Zombo was in trade format. Zombo worked for me pretty well as action/madness series often do, and while I could appreciate a lot about Cradelgrave something didn't quite click. Maybe it was a cultural thing. I should give it a reread at some point.
Also, and I said this last week when the discussion turned to it, but I personally think you're placing the start of the New Golden Age(tm) far to recently. For my money I conciser Prog 2004 to be the stat. A lot of very exciting things were going on around that period, with an incredibly strong strip line-up that still resonates with me more then even what's currently presented (If I was going to be honest, its because there was less Pat Mills back then. And more Simon Spurrier). Don't get me wrong, I still think we're in a golden age. There is nothing like 2000 AD anywhere else, and nothing gets me more hyped when it comes out. But if we're going to discuss the question of when the current golden age got started, the middle of 2010 is far too close a date in my approximation.
"I say it's been a golden age for 200 issues!"
"Well, I say it's been a golden age for 500 issues!"
Eh, logic be darned. I'm just taking Colin's side 'cause.
Quote from: Greg M. on 21 February, 2013, 05:46:22 PMThe likes of 'Cinnabar' were quite the opposite: wildly out of control, with everything managing to tie itself together at the end due to some kind of subconscious connective thread it sounds like Smith didn't even know he was laying .... 'Cradlegrave' to me feels like Smith becoming disciplined but on his own terms.
Well put, that man. I love, I mean really
love, Smith's work, he is one of my all-time favourite writers, but sometimes that earlier stuff ended up being... frustrating for exactly the reasons Greg suggests. Similarly some of the more restrained work of the early 2000's was missing that freewheeling expansive quality (the great missed opportunity of
A Love Like Blood being a case in point... how much would you have loved to have seen more of the horrors of Karkosa's aeroplane of eternal night?). With the recent stuff, typified by
Cradlegrave, we see disturbing invention and precision pacing working in harmony.
In today's entry, a plea for clearer storytelling (http://bit.ly/XHVqmj) in the form of recap episodes or shorter breaks between stories, because, let's face it, we ain't getting any younger. Savage Book 5 and Defoe Book 3 are used as examples of Old Readers Syndrome.
Recaps are for the weak! And perhaps more pertinent. they have very little currency as reprint.
Nah, I confess if I care about a story it's usually a trip to the attic when I see a new 'Book' on the horizon*. It's almost always worth it, so as a user-friendly no-ladder alternative the recap is certainly a good plan. Something that annoys me about recaps is that they have tendency to tell you what was actually important about the previous story in the context of the current, which is a hermeneutic process often best left to the reader.
*I only store the past 12-18 months beside the bed, for instant reference, the rest gets moved to 'storage'. When the wife complains about the pile I observe that it could be girlie mags. Then I move 12 month's worth to the attic. Then I carefully move the girlie mags to the bottom of the remaining stack.
Thing is, Tharg usually does make a decent stab at filling us in on the salient points in the little blurb on the Input page which nobody bothers to read. You're definitely right about the difference between rereading every Prog multiple times and it being lucky to get a second airing before a story finishes.
As for "team-led series don't work", somebody better tell Bad Company and Caballistics, Inc. You're right again about the memorable introduction to a relatively small number of characters compared to a single splash page with a dozen headshots.
I had overlooked Cabs, but that also has a far, far smaller cast than Defoe! And almost all of Bad Company's characters get killed in their introductory story. But Rennie also did a similar trick to let us get to know each important player in Cabs, with that run of six one-offs that focused on a different character. I'd be happy, after Defoe Book Five, to see something similar before the next sixty page "chunk o'story," just some flashbacks or spotlights on each of the major players.
The blurb on the Input page is usually helpful, but only in keeping up with the plot, not remembering which characters did what and why, you know?
Quote from: Thrillpowered Thursday...or just ignore them all, say that Titus Defoe, his ally Damned Jones, and their enemy La Voisin are the only characters that matter, and everybody else is background color.
:lol: That's precisely what I did, although possibly swapping La Voisin for Isaac Newton. I find his story a lot more interesting. What little I can remember of it...
In today's installment (http://bit.ly/VJyxTg), I look briefly at the question of longer stories in the Megazine, and how Tank Girl started trying everybody's patience, while putting a brief spotlight on Armitage and on Meet Darren Dead.
Blimey, you're getting close to the point where I stopped getting the Meg! Coincidence? Head-in-a-jar protagonists may be rare, but they make excellent McGuffins and sidekicks (see Sam Slade's head, Orpheus' head in Sandman, Cassidy in Preacher, Data's head in ST:TNG 'Time's Arrow').
I quite liked Darren Dead and hoped that he might get a bit part in a Dirty Frank Low Life story if he's not coming back elsewhere.
Maybe the Chaos Bug got him. It would be nice to have one confirmed fatality among characters that we actually know. :lol:
I missed Darren Dead's first appearance so your summary of who he was and what was going on was very welcome Grant. If only the Meg had seen fit to give me that information at the time. ::)
Quote from: Grant Goggans on 07 March, 2013, 08:53:58 PMMaybe the Chaos Bug got him.
There's a story in that alright! How
would the virus affect an undead head?
You make a good point though, Grant. Other than Garcia, Niles and (potentially) Hollister (none of whom actually died from the bug itself), do we know of
any existing characters who succumbed?
The funny thing, seeing how Trifecta was so darn good, was that before Tharg announced that Simping Detective was coming back, I had written him a letter asking to really drive home how many people died by killing off some known supporting players, suggesting starting a story at one of their funerals. Jack Point, for example... Some letters just aren't going to make it into Output, huh?
Anyway, in this week's installment (http://bit.ly/Ycyax1), Tour of Duty gets started! Check it out, and please share with your friends!
As ever great reading and brought home some very interesting points.
Your discussion of how Wagner's Dredd lays out its plots over a very long time, leaving any sort of neat summary of when a given story starts and finishes pretty vague was particularly interesting. It also got me to thinking how people who say (often, of course, light heartedly) 'If its not Wagner I'm not interested.' are missing the point, or rather a trick.
The fact that Dredd is in real time (or as near as comic will allow) means that, like real life (also in real time I'm led to believe) things don't neatly have beginning, middles and ends, that's the stuff of stories. Rather things build up, subside, build up, subside and often, in the case of Dredd, then explode a bit. Wagner's long form storytelling needs the bits that drift from them to work, or work better I should say. So in the case of the Mutant crisis in Mega City One, of course it wasn't the only thing going on. It may have been a major issues but, there was other stuff, the hair stuff, the exorcisms, the good Dredd's from another dimension. Being told by different writers means they add different favours to things and really support Wagner's story in making them sprawling and epic, as well as very often being fantastic stories in there own right.
Without those bits of 'filler' (I use the term guardedly as they are not just filler in the traditional sense) Wagner's writing wouldn't be as effective, it'd lose its pacing, across the whole piece and hamper the very real world feel (not our real world I should point out) you get from the long form storytelling.
Well put, Colin. Tour of Duty added an additional twist to this mix, since the stories written by the alt.Wagners are what made the whole concept of Dredd's exile really work. The excellent Rennie/Holden Dragon one for example, or Al's Christmas tales. By having the same broadened mix of styles and tones as the 'regular' strip has, but set in the milieu of the Townships, it stopped being a monolithic 'epic' and became a viable version of everyday Dredd. Much more satisfying.
Quote from: Thrill Powered ThursdayThe problem is, something as dense as Dredd makes it very difficult to find a starting point to the story.
This is both the beauty and the curse of it, isn't it? I remember having the same dilemma when sitting down to reread Tour of Duty. I initially went back to Origins, then realised it would make more sense to start with the first appearance of the New Mutant Army. Of course, Damned Ranger was immediately followed in the Meg by Six so, for the sake of completeness, I had to dig out the brief sequence of stories which took PJ Maybe to South America four years previously! None of which would have had any real significance if it wasn't for much older stories involving these characters.
I definitely agree with Tordelback that one of the things that made ToD work so well is the complete removal of all the supporting tales to the same environment for the duration. Many of those stories would've worked just as well at any point but the commitment to the change really worked. Conversely, my one real problem with Day of Chaos was the way the build up stories, which would previously have been drip fed out over a period of months, were all run together as a single monolithic entity.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 14 March, 2013, 10:22:11 AM
Your discussion of how Wagner's Dredd lays out its plots over a very long time, leaving any sort of neat summary of when a given story starts and finishes pretty vague was particularly interesting. It also got me to thinking how people who say (often, of course, light heartedly) 'If its not Wagner I'm not interested.' are missing the point, or rather a trick.
First, I'm all for the mixture of the serious, silly, ongoing and standalone and I'm definitely not in the Wagner only camp myself. However, I think your argument trips over itself a little as it's fairly clear that Wagner's long form story evolving relies primarily on plots and characters that he himself has started out with. There may also be a sort of rose-tinted view of the late 90s for some people. Remember, there was a period of four and a half years when Darkside was the only non-Wagner scripted Dredd in the Prog, so JW was writing everything: the epics, the character development, the absurd one offs, the procedurals and so on.
At last it can be told! In today's entry (http://bit.ly/WFGY1f), the weird and bizarre story of those "prog packs" that started showing up in American funnybook stores in 2009. Plus a paragraph about Necrophim. All in your super, soaraway Thrillpowered Thursday!
That was a fascinating read, Grant.
The thing I find utterly, utterly baffling is the sheer incompetence of Diamond on display in the events you describe. This is a company whose entire business model is predicated on forcing its customers to pre-order non-returnable product sight-unseen in order to transfer any risk overstocking onto the retailers and it still doesn't order enough copies.
The only conceivable explanation for this is that Diamond is simply unable to add up the number of orders it has received from its customers and then order that number from its suppliers. It almost defies belief...
Cheers
Jim
These days, I work for the Children's Museum of Atlanta, and I often get to unpack boxes of toys for our shop. These come straight from supplier to retailer, no middleman like Diamond. Almost four years I've been with the museum, and not one thing has ever arrived damaged. With only one exception, every single shipping list in four years has been accurate. Sure, the box may not contain everything that we ordered from Melissa & Doug, or Toysmith, or whomever, but it says on the ship list "ON BACKORDER."
My friend's been managing that shop for almost a quarter century. I'd have nightmares.
A great read as ever. The problems with Diamond (and I'll not pretend to have a clue as to their origin and course) were something I followed very closely at the time. It was infuriating to hear how during a period when we knew there was Dredd movie coming, that 2000ad was starting to really make an impression on the 'big' websites, the Simon and Schuster deal was done that created a great model to get material into US shops, people were struggling to actually get hold of the product and all the potential gain was surely (?) harmed?
Of course it was nowhere near as infuriating for me able to get it no problem, than for those that couldn't. Its a credit to those that perceived.
As for Necrophim, careful Grant or we'll find ourselves agreeing on more and more. I enjoyed this series. It probably struggled in comparison to some of the exception quality that surrounded it, which I think for some might have fuzzied the fact that it was a good strip in its own right.
Quotethe summer of the polybags
Nice.
I switched to Clickwheel Digital with Prog 2008. Like you, primarily to away from Diamond erratic shipping irregularities. Unfortunately my experiment with Digital back then ended up a bit disastrous. A combination of not being pleased with the reading experience on my PC monitor, and loosing my job for two months resulted in my ceasing to read 2000 AD for 2009 and 2010. When I did finally return to reading in 2011, I went back to print where I was greeted my Mr. Polybag, and month(s) long delays.
Of course when the Dredd movie was announced Rebellion made the move to go to same week print progs in partnership with Diamond, and got rid of the polybags. Unfortunately nothing changed as a result. Progs (and Megs, and Trades) would still arrive in groups, weeks and months late.
And now the Polybags have returned. Thank goodness my iPad has made reading Digital Comics practical and enjoyable. I now don't have to deal with any of that malarkey.
Oh, and I got to read Necrophim during my great 'Gap Filling' when I ordered all of 2009-2010 last Jan. An interesting, if flawed epic. I'd buy a trade of it.
I'd absolutely buy a Necrophim trade. I'm surprised that we haven't seen one, honestly. I think it suffered, like so many others, from the breaks between "stories." Shoulda been 26 straight progs, and not three stories over 100 progs.
I'd also buy a Necrophim art. I enjoyed the story and thought that the strip could not have had more perfectly suited artwork.
Just wanted to give everybody the heads-up... the blog will resume on the 18th of April. There will be a couple of breaks scheduled in the early and late summer, and the current plan is that it will conclude on Halloween, when we catch up to the present day, after 218 entries. I'm working on the next one now, and I also have three other reviews ready to go at my Bookshelf blog starting later this week.
That's the current plan. We're also going to see about moving from Georgia to North Carolina later in the year, and if that happens, then everything's gonna be turned upside down and delayed for a while. But as it stands right now, a Halloween blowout for the conclusion of the blog. Maybe then I can get back to doing that Doonesbury blog that I abandoned...
Back! There's a short entry this week (http://bit.ly/101n3GV) as the story moves into 2010, with Ampney Crucis and Nikolai Dante under the (brief) spotlight. Enjoy!
Always a delight to have you back, what will we do when you are all caught up?
As for the tease at the end, I think I know which Prog you mean, but with these things you can never be sure.
Yet another good read Grant.
But:
"Nikolai Dante has no shortage of additional members" :o
This week, a slight change of format - and next week, I'm mixing things up a bit as well - as I run down the lineup of prog 1677 (http://bit.ly/10BNPwU), which is a completely perfect comic book.
If you enjoy it, please share it!
Arh now I was wondering which one you'd go for go for this one or the following one issue 1678 which squeezed in on 31st March.
I got it wrong as I thought the excellent one-off 'Chrono Cabbies' might have spun that one into the perfect Prog for you. That said the opener Ichabod was really fantastic so I can see why you've gone for this one. Either way great read.
another good read Grant - d'you know I don't think I'd noticed at the time that mek-quake was wearing a tux in those panels!
I did love that one-off, but I love that first episode of Ichabod Azrael so much more, yes!
In this week's entry (http://bit.ly/161CyaB), I write in detail about what happened in that stunning 2010 Nikolai Dante serial when everything fell apart and about four members of the supporting cast died. Hankies at your sides, gentlemen. You have permission to allow your lower lip to wobble.
One of those occasions when there's not much more to say other than - Yep.
I will though, but, only to say nice Watership Down reference. Watership Down plays an important part in my life. When it was on at the cinema my parents, HAVING READ THE BOOK, took me and my brother to see it. I was 6 years old. For whatever reason Peter and the Dragon was on at the same cinema in Chester. I REAAALLLLYYY wanted to see Peter and the Dragon, after all it had a dragon in, it not rabbits. But my parents insisted and off to the rabbit film I went. Oh my lord, that was not just a rabbit film, to a 6 year old it was the most harrowing, saddening experience of my life, interlaced with brief moments of comedy relief with Keharr. I often wonder what person I would be now if my parents had allowed me to go see Peter and the Dragon, I really do.
Just as in years to come I wonder what person I'd be if Dante had finished at Prog 1675.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 02 May, 2013, 08:33:18 AMI often wonder what person I would be now if my parents had allowed me to go see Peter and the Dragon, I really do.
Ehhnn, my lot took my to see
Pete's Dragon and not
Watership Down, so be grateful, you could have turned out like me.
Great entry there from Mr. G, but did we-the-readers
really not know about Dimitri until that moment? I thought it was very clearly telegraphed ages before that, beyond mere 'something's up' anyway. That run of Dante is one of the greats in 2000ADs history, but I really did most fervently wish that the whole thing would end right there with Dante and Jena in the sea.
Prog 1685 was only my second prog, so I had absolutly no idea what was going on in Nikolai Dante.
It wasn't until last year that I finally managed to get into the Nikolai Dante strip. Just in time for it to end. :lol:
This week, the nature of villainy (http://bit.ly/ZReIKK), as I ask why the arrest of Deputy Chief Judge Martin Sinfield is so incredibly satisfying.
That there is your best piece yet, Mr. Goggans. I enjoyed it mightily and agree with every word (apart from the ones about Voldemort!): brilliant summation of what made that whole story so great, and what is so masterful about Wagner's Dredd.
Yep, another good entry. While I love the variety of villains and wouldn't want them all to be mundane, it's often the ones who can almost seem reasonable that are the worst/best. Death and the others are great looking OTT comic villains but as far as an actual "arch-enemy" goes, I'd always pick Orlok as the most satisfying as you can't help feel Dredd would be acting the same way were their positions reversed.
You're a great writer, Grant, and your piece articulately sums up and encapsulates a very astute take on Sinfield's unique brand of 'banality of evil'-style villainy - but unfortunately all your sound analysis is squarely undermined by the fact you like neither dogs nor Doctor Doom. I'm not sure such a thing can be possible.
It is funny to think of Sinfield as 'that guy' because, of course, Dredd used to be 'that guy' too. My taste is often for more operatic villains - I always end up cheering on the Torquemadas and Dooms of the comics world because they're so deliciously wicked I actually want to see them succeed. As such, your article made me think about which 2000AD villains have had, for me, the most satisfying downfalls - the ones that have you punching the air, and declaring "Yes!" most emphatically. I keep coming back to Konstantin Romanov getting stabbed in the back in 'Nikolai Dante'. I think that might be the most well-earned fate (even though it wasn't permanent.)
Very interesting as ever Grant. For me the definition of a good villain depends a lot on the actual story. So Death was a great Dredd villain up to a point (as is Cal for me) as Dredd was about an over the top world, suitably anchored, but still unbound and filled with fantastic imagination. As its become more grounded and the drama more, will subtle do? Death has become pantomime and Cal would be too now. For the modern Dredd the great villains are Edgar and Sinfeld, as you say 'that guy'. PJ Mayor is another piece of Wagner genius as he somehow manages to straddle the two - just give him a rest for a while.
For Nemesis, Torquemada is pantomime, surrounded by goons, but that's just perfect and so he's a great(est?) villain, he's Nemesis'... well nemesis, his perfect opposite in one key aspect, to the strips 'hero' but in others his equal, he is brilliant and has the measure to his enemy. Dante had a host of suitable foes, none more so than his big two, again correct for his story and his struggle. As we saw in his final episode, while Dante felt he was utterly different to Vlad and yet was he? As Vlad so viciously pointed out. Perfect for the hero and the story.
And so it goes
A villain for the hero.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 10 May, 2013, 10:40:31 AM
For Nemesis, Torquemada is pantomime, surrounded by goons, but that's just perfect and so he's a great(est?) villain, he's Nemesis'... well nemesis, his perfect opposite in one key aspect, to the strips 'hero' but in others his equal, he is brilliant and has the measure to his enemy.
I think Torque works so well - despite a lunacy that screams out of the pages at you it's so utterly bonkers - is that, like all the best bad guys, he doesn't see himself as the villian (it's perhaps no coincedence that my favourite Death moments have been when we're reminded of this same trait in him - he genuinely thinks he's a force for justice and can't understand why Dredd, himself a judge, keeps trying to stop him!) Torque knows very well how evil/unfair/perverse his actions are, but for him every last one is a means to an end, a perfectly acceptable debasment if they'll help him achieve his goals - there's a consistency behind every last thing he does, even as he descends ever deeper into madness. Forget Ghandi, forget the Dahli Lama, forget Nelson Mandela - in all human history, only one man has ever achieved the impossible dream of eradicating warfare, bigotry, intolerance and racism forever. Only one man has had the foresight and sheer force of will to unite the entirety of the human race behind him as one, and that man is Torque. Okay, so he's done that by simply directing the bigotry and warlike urges outward, projected onto other species and worlds, which you or I may not think is any sort of real progress at all - but in his own mind he's mankind's self-appointed saviour and will let absolutely
nothing ruin what he has created. Right or wrong, he's doing exactly what Nemesis is doing - fighting for what he believes in.
For me, the strength of Torquemada is in his relentless energy as a character. Everything he does, he does with absolute relish. Everything he says, he believes whole-heartedly. He does nothing half-cocked - every wicked aspect of his life is pursued to a level of ridiculous excess. All Torquemada's amps are turned up to 11. As such, the sheer force of his personality becomes frighteningly charismatic. He once prefixed his most famous mantra with the claim "I can't say it often enough!" To me, that's Torquemada in a nutshell - he never gets bored of playing his own greatest hits.
Quote from: Greg M. on 10 May, 2013, 05:04:46 PM
For me, the strength of Torquemada is in his relentless energy as a character. Everything he does, he does with absolute relish. Everything he says, he believes whole-heartedly. He does nothing half-cocked - every wicked aspect of his life is pursued to a level of ridiculous excess. All Torquemada's amps are turned up to 11. As such, the sheer force of his personality becomes frighteningly charismatic. He once prefixed his most famous mantra with the claim "I can't say it often enough!" To me, that's Torquemada in a nutshell - he never gets bored of playing his own greatest hits.
That'd be the
jouissance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jouissance#In_psychoanalysis). See also, Mr Quilp from
The Old Curiosity Shop, Satan in
The Old Testament (but not Milton's
Paradise Lost), and The Hooded Claw.
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 10 May, 2013, 12:59:45 PMRight or wrong, he's doing exactly what Nemesis is doing - fighting for what he believes in.
Except of course that Nemesis, like Great Uncle Baal before him, is just pissing about amusing himself with humans (at least until Thoth [spoiler]gets done in,[/spoiler] after which he's just indulging his venegful urges). Or to put it another way, Torquemada believes utterly in something and Nemesis simply doesn't care about anything beyond himseld. A fine inversion of the usual morality of these things.
Torquemada's speech at the end of the world - in the story where Nemesis teams with the ABC Warriors - is some of the greatest writing in comics ever. He is simultaneously deeply pathetic and remarkably terrifying - a pretty impressive combination to pull off!
Sorry, everybody... I was ill earlier in the week and I blew my deadline. Blog'll be back next Thursday.
Sorry again about that break, everybody. In today's entry, the death of Feral (http://bit.ly/12wUhks). Wagner just wasn't very nice to this character, was he?
The problem I had with the Feral business wasn't his grim and affecting death, it was why it was necessary to so completely demolish his established character. Introducing the idea that he lied about Johnny, and didn't have the guts to sacrifice himself (and bearing in mind that he was only a kid at the time, who could blame him?), would probably have worked fine with only a slight adjustment to his history (even his reportedly running into Johnny's trapped soul in Darkest Star wouldn't have been completely inconsistent). Making such a very contemptible character seemed over the top - there's no reason he couldn't have continued down the path Ennis and Hogan described, just with that early failure and consequent lies always in the background of his struggles to be better. Still, the deception/execution episode is very powerful stuff.
While I have no affinity for Feral (I believe I had read The Final Solution before reading Life and Death of Johnny Alpha, but no Strontium Dogs era stuff to speak of) I sort of thought the way he went out was a bit of a real 'F-You' to the character and those that worked on him.
That being said... its Strontium Dog. Nobody gets a truly happy ending, and its a harsh universe. He went out in a sad, brutal, and darkly humorous way, which is probably the best kind of send off you can hope for in Stronty Dog.
As for Savage: Crims. I thought it was confusing rubbish that went on for far too long.
I can't wait to hear what you have to say about Age of the Wolf next week Grant. I should reread the first book in advance. I remember getting really frustrated with its pacing after a really interesting set up.
Yeah the complete demolition of Feral seems to be underscored by the fact that he's fatten up before he dies. Feral was a visually very dramatic character (if as Grant says arguably derivative of the pointy claw brigade over in the mainstream, but I'd suggest that he pre-dates the real start of that era?), lean and fast, sharp and Gothic. He was a glorious design by Simon Harrison, a representation of the pasty white teen, fuelled by anger. To therefore have him die as a fat wasted 'old' man can, with an uncharitable reading, can be seen as a rather vicious, contemptuousness and ultimately needless utter trashing of what he was. I of course don't know whether this is the case, I have no idea of John Wagner's motives here, but at the very least it was a careless way to treat someone else's character... which may of course very well be the point!
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 23 May, 2013, 10:47:21 AM...at the very least it was a careless way to treat someone else's character... which may of course very well be the point!
Hmmm, sudden change in established visuals, at the mercy of a kooky religion, being facially mutilated before being reduced to a heap of charred bones... who
does this remind me of?
Quote from: TordelBack on 23 May, 2013, 10:24:38 AM
The problem I had with the Feral business wasn't his grim and affecting death, it was why it was necessary to so completely demolish his established character. Introducing the idea that he lied about Johnny, and didn't have the guts to sacrifice himself (and bearing in mind that he was only a kid at the time, who could blame him?), would probably have worked fine with only a slight adjustment to his history (even his reportedly running into Johnny's trapped soul in Darkest Star wouldn't have been completely inconsistent). Making such a very contemptible character seemed over the top - there's no reason he couldn't have continued down the path Ennis and Hogan described, just with that early failure and consequent lies always in the background of his struggles to be better.
I 100% agree with this Tordel, and it may be the single most significant reason my disposition is so soured towards 'New' Strontium Dog.
Good to see that some others on the forum share this viewpoint as I often feel like a pariah if I even bring the topic up.
I LOVE Wagner & Ezquerra, just not this particular story.
Am I crazy, or wasn't Feral supposed to be Johnny's son?
Quote from: The Adventurer on 23 May, 2013, 10:58:42 AM
Am I crazy, or wasn't Feral supposed to be Johnny's son?
You're crazy!
I've only read the first three Agency Files thus far so Feral's death meant very little to me, emotionally speaking - it was my first encounter of the character, although I'm vaguely aware of who he was. The very idea of him felt like an ugly fit for the Strontium Dog universe, to be honest - a leather-jacket wearing skateboarding angry young teen? Bleurgh. From an outsider's point of view it all seems very reminiscent of that Simpsons episode where Itchy and Scratchy was hijacked by self-consciously 'cool' Poochie the Dog.
Adventurer does make a very good point in that his ultimate fate was very in keeping with the universe if nothing else - have any of the characters who've had an ending thus far managed a good one? Off the top of my head I can't think of a single one. Everybody who has left the strip did so by way of violent death. I suppose Durham got a happy ending, thousands of years in the future, and the Gronk escaped by virtue of Wagner just not writing about him any longer. Not great odds overall, though.
The only Stront I can think of with a happy ending was Sting Ray, in a Hilary Robinson/Simon Jacob two-parter. Lovely art.
I'm very happy to see this kicking off some more debate and discussion. It was a fun entry to write.
I'm one of those squaxx who discovered 2000ad in the 90s, after The Final Solution, and tried my best to join the dots between Strontium Dogs and the few Strontium Dog stories I'd read in Sci-fi Specials and Best of 2000ad Monthly (stories such as Bitch, The Town That Died of Shame and that untitled one with the Walking Lady). I was never particularly punk or goth and 'edgy' Feral with the Nine Inch Nails cover puns didn't appeal to me, despite Tharg's attempts to
big him up present him as a fan-favourite. I did enjoy the stories featuring the Gronk and/or the Alphabet Men and you're absolutely right Grant that, alongside such junk as Babe Race 5000, Strontium Dogs showed a lot of promise. Paul Hogan and Simon Jacob certainly contributed to keeping me on as a regular reader.
So I don't particularly mind that Wagner ret-conned Feral's behaviour in that key period on Salisbury Plain but I find it jars a little
too much with the character we see in The Final Solution. Feral MkI was an angry youth trying to do the right thing by his friends and the man he looked up to, and sometimes failing. Feral MkII was a no-hoper coward who met an unnecessarily grisly end. (Being force-fed, mutilated and burned alive is considerably nastier than being placed in a large bowl and squashed with a boulder, which is the nearest comparison I can recall from early SD.) As Tordelback said, a less extreme change could have served the story just as well.
QuoteAs for Savage: Crims. I thought it was confusing rubbish that went on for far too long.
I'm with you there Adventurer.
Quote from: Grant Goggans on 23 May, 2013, 04:47:58 PM
The only Stront I can think of with a happy ending was Sting Ray
As mentioned above, Durham Red got the happiest ending of all (i.e. getting to live several lifetimes and ending up matriarch in the royal family ruling the universe or some such).
Technically that's all been retconned out of continuity with new Strontium Dog of course, so she'll probably end up getting type b hepatitis off a talking rock.
In today's entry (http://bit.ly/11d8mpe), I fumble around and come up with a few things to say about Age of the Wolf, which rereads much better than it did the first time through.
I thoroughly enjoyed Age of the Wolf from the start and don't remember experiencing any disappointment or shock at the ending, other than the usual "Aw damn, how long before book 2?".
Today's ad is another matter. "Every Thurssday [sic] evening, we select a visitor to our site for a chance to be our lucky winner. Based on today's random draw, you are that winner!" Yeah, right! ::)