http://comicsbeat.com/c2e2-liveblogging-dredd-and-beyond-the-whole-wide-world-of-2000-ad/
So this is exciting news! But in what capacity are they 'back'. Just doing a cover back, or nine episodes of gorgeous sequentials back...
Anybody?
If they both go B/W on this I will lose my s#!t. Please be B/W.
Word.
That are some very strange things in that account, even allowing for it being liveblogged.
Paul Cornell reckons there's a 'house art style'? :o
Games Workshop produced the only 2000AD RPG? :o
And is it actually Bisley and Fabry, rather than McMahon?
Incidentally, I've been re-reading Slaine out-of-order lately and was quite surprised how very poor Bisley's work looked (to me) when juxtaposed with McMahon, Bellardinelli and Fabry, the odd static image aside. I'm a B&W man at heart, but even so it was a shock to realise that the Biz wouldn't even make into my Top 5 Slaine artists these days, even though I was very taken with his debut issues back then, and still love him on ABC Warriors.
There was a great Biz painted story in an issue of the old Atomeka Press anthology books years ago reproduced B/W which may defeat the purpose but did look nice as I remember. As TB says and as ground breaking as The Horned God was at the time it isn't as strong for me as McMahon, Fabry et al. Really have enjoyed B/W Biz of recent years though and if you're in any doubt about B/W Fabry these days then check out his new 'Sketchbook 1' collection. Features commission work, convention sketches etc, very nice.
There's a CBR article with some more detail (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=45148). News highlights:
QuoteMichael Molcher: Well, we are very pleased to be welcoming back one of our biggest artists, Glen Fabry. He's going to be returning with a cover to "2000 AD" prog 1833 on May 22 for a "Cadet Anderson" story called "One in Ten."
QuoteWe've also got RM Guerra of "Scalped" fame drawing his very first "Judge Dredd" story called "The Man Comes Around." That'll run in the "Judge Dredd Megazine" #338.
....
The script is being written by Rob Williams
Quote"The Ten Seconders" is coming back for one final series in "2000 AD" prog 1839.
QuoteThen the following week we have the final series for "Age of the Wolf,"
...
Jon Davis-Hunt will be returning on artwork for that one.
QuoteGlen Fabry's also doing the "Slaine" 30th anniversary special, correct?
It's the 30th anniversary of "Slaine" this year, that's right! He's one of our most popular characters, so to celebrate in "2000 AD," this August we're starting a new series in which artists from the past of "Slaine" return for one-off stories. It's called "The Book of Scars." We have Mick McMahon, Glen Fabry, Simon Bisley and Clint Langley on it, Clint being the most recent artist to work on "Slaine" before this. Clint is going to frame the stories that are drawn by the others, and it's all written by Pat Mills.
QuoteJohn Wagner is returning to "Judge Dredd" for his first series since "Day of Chaos" ended in "2000 AD." That's prog 1837 in June.
...
He's gonna be working with Dave Taylor, who is the guy who did "Batman: Death By Design." It's a five-parter
And there's a little about the Dredd 3D sequel comic too.
Wow! That Slaine news is fantastic. What a treat that'll be.
Love R.M. Guera too, so really looking forward to his story with Rob too.
Whoops sorry I've started another thread linking to this article, if the mods fancy merging.
Quote from: Montynero on 27 April, 2013, 08:18:55 PM
Wow! That Slaine news is fantastic. What a treat that'll be.
It really is - it should be absolutely brilliant. It's obviously too much to hope that Langley could do his bits in the B&W style he used for the Hammerstein flashbacks, but even so I'm tightening the straps of my hero harness as we speak.
Quotencidentally, I've been re-reading Slaine out-of-order lately and was quite surprised how very poor Bisley's work looked (to me) when juxtaposed with McMahon, Bellardinelli and Fabry, the odd static image aside.
Ah, I thought it was just me!
I have always said that I think Bisley's work on Slaine will be great when he eventually finishes the pages...
I will return to the Prog for the Book of Scars Slaine series!!!! Single issue stories sounds great. Fave character by a long way. (and yeah I know, I should be reading the prog anyway :-[).
I'm assuming the framing device will be Slaine explaining where he got each of his scars, with each injury originating during the tenure of a different artist. Makes me even sadder than usual that Massimo is no longer with us.
Incidentally, couldn't find Grail War in the shops - has anyone seen it on shelves yet?
Quote from: TordelBack on 28 April, 2013, 07:45:44 PM
Incidentally, couldn't find Grail War in the shops - has anyone seen it on shelves yet?
Saw several copies in Big Bang Comics last week Tordel.
Don't go for the one on the left- I thumbed through it!
Tordelback,
There are several copies of it on Amazon ( and other sellers ) .....Works out about £12 or so including postage, if you go to 'other sellers' of same item....Just checked and it's in stock...
Got mine last week from Wordery, but haven't started reading yet..
Cheers.
Pat Mills discussed this on the EBCT 2000AD podcast. I am very glad that the news is now confirmed, I just hope to God that Fabry is doing black and white line art, and no accountant steps in to suggest colour might be more commercial....
I'll always love Bisley's Sláine, me. I don't know if it's just nostalgia these days but it absolutely blew me away at the time. I spent much of my early teens copying the pictures and fantasising about Medb and work as a mural painter today, so I have a lot to thank the Biz for. Can't wait to see his new stuff on Sláine.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 28 April, 2013, 08:59:21 PM
I'll always love Bisley's Sláine, me. I don't know if it's just nostalgia these days but it absolutely blew me away at the time. I spent much of my early teens copying the pictures and fantasising about Medb and work as a mural painter today, so I have a lot to thank the Biz for. Can't wait to see his new stuff on Sláine.
Goth girls with purple hair are still my kind of thing too, Jayzus.
The more traditional Frazetta feel and sword and sorcery aspects he brought to
Slaine never floated my boat, but - like almost everyone else at that time - I was blown away by the intensity, vibrancy and creativity of Bisley's work on the Warriors and the virtuosity of his colour work on
Slaine - especially considering how quickly he went from being not much more than competent in his use of colour with his early covers to producing page after page of great looking strip work. I think Bisley's design ability and gift for composition are underrated too; I'm sure a lot of the involved celtic design work on show is the artistic equivalent of
Lorem Ipsum, but it looks fantastic and sparked an interest in that kind of imagery and the culture behind it in many readers.
I agree with the point
Rich and others make regarding the rushed and incomplete nature of some individual frames and pages, but the book as a whole is a stunning accomplishment. I was willing to forgive him at the time for some panels where the texture of the paint took precedence over good figure work because
the Horned God was not only the best looking thing in most of the issues in which it ran, but it also seemed to be one of the few strips which was published in decent-sized chunks during that whole awkward era when artists and editorial struggled with the move to full colour. Bisley's achievement on
Slaine is up there with that of Carlos on
Necropolis, in that respect.
Frustratingly, Anderson and Rogue Trooper stories of that time would run for three issues then reappear months or a year later, which made for a very dissatisfying experience as a reader. I remember Mills commenting that Bisley's astonishing speed meant he could actually tell the story in a way and at a length which would have been impossible previously, given the glacial pace set by Bisley's predecessor on the strip, the brilliant perfectionist Glenn Fabry. Mills specifically cited the framing device of an elderly Ukko recording his exploits at the scrivener's stool as something he would have sacrificed for the sake of getting the thing out before they were all old men themselves. I think Bisley suffers more from the collective memory of the era of art and slew of imitators he inspired than because of the usually great work he actually produced.
Good points, Sauchie. Fully painting comic art is, to all intents and purposes, not practical which is why we don't see it much these days. Those few rare people that could deliver it in a timely way are incredibly talented artists and generally doing something a little less sapping now, like black and white sequentials, covers or concept art. The achievement of fully painting comic art to the level Bisley, and a couple of others, achieved on a regular basis can't be understated.
'Finished' is a subjective terms too. I know exactly what Rich means, because once the initial seismic shock of what he had established as a baseline style was established the lack of backgrounds or rougher rendering muddied the storytelling somewhat. But I prefer loose painting, and some of the pencilled panels with simple wash over them are among the most evocative in the series.
Bisley's one of those artists you can enjoy for the unique style and verve of everything he designs and doodles. His achievements are incredible, and we won't see anything like it again.
I can't disagree with a thing said in last few posts but in terms of preference I'd take black and white Biz and Fab over their colour sequentials any day.
Quote from: TordelBack on 28 April, 2013, 07:45:44 PM
Incidentally, couldn't find Grail War in the shops - has anyone seen it on shelves yet?
I got mine from the
2000AD Online Shop.
Thanks for the shopping tips, chums - alas I'm looking for somewhere that takes book tokens. I've gone one better than the cashless economy, I'm creditless too!
Can't really disagree with Sauchie re:Bisley, it was amazing stuff to read at the time, especially the first chunk with the wispy haunted looking Ukko and great swathes of tartan. I particularly loved the light effects and the metal textures inside the Cauldron. It's also hard to dislike work that graced the Prog sitting on the bedside table as one finally got one's end away.
I hadn't really thought about the speed aspect (Bisley's, not my own undue haste), since my memories of the Prog in that period are of everything being disjointed and attenuated. It's easy to forget that dependence on Fabry for Slaine the King had led to a fragmented and unsatisfying run that undermined his stunning work, and Pat's. I can't help feeling that there was a lot more Pat wanted to do with the cast and setting that StK spends most of its time establishing, only for pretty much everything to be jettisoned for The Horned God as the story shifts into 'epic' mode.
However.
Looking at Bisley's work now, it feels very unsatisfying (to me). Individual panels are superb, I wouldn't even suggest that the Celtic trappings are mere boilerplate, some of the costumes are just brilliant (thank Lug Slaine finally escaped that awful gimp suit, even if Medb and Niamh's redesigns are sadly pedestrian), and the pages where a single colour is splattered over grey line work are just beautiful.
Ultimately it falls down for me for a number of reasons. As the story goes along the overall design of the suppporting cast and the Formorians in particular become pretty generic fantasy fare, orcs and barbarians and dragons interspersed with unconvincing beast-headed men. At the start, Bisley's work is full of invention and detail. As we get to the middle of the story it seems it's all about shortcuts and disconnected thumbnails squeezed between static tableaux.
Rather than helping the story build to a climax of all that has gone before, the art seems to diminish everything, especially in the last 30 pages, and Angie Mills' unique world is slowly reduced to small static panels showing excerpts from the Games Workshop catalogue. Long before the Land of Young vanishes beneath the waves it has already disappeared beneath slabs of colour where there used to be background.
I'm being unpleasantly harsh here. Horned God is a huge achievement, both for Mills (his arch language and sense of foreboding here is at its very best, and the unsettling mix of comedy relief and epic tragedy is superb) and for Bisley, who does things with paint that have never been equaled before or since, for all that they have been attempted. However, in terms of how art builds a world and serves a story, I'd still take Bellardinelli, McMahon, Kincaid and Fabry over Bisley - although having thought about over the course of writing this waffle, I'll give him the No. 5 slot, ahead of (in no particular order) Langley 1, Pugh, Power, Collins, Staple, Murray and Langley 2. Yes, you're right, I did leave some people out of that list.
Yeah, I'm glad to see I'm not alone here then. My biggest disappointment with Bisley's work was the descent into the boring Frazetta-lite cliches that Mills himself had been so adamant about avoiding up to that point with the character.
Much as I admire his painting skills I prefered his ABC Warriors work too. Black Hole was a brilliant story and the art and design was amazing. The 'barbarian' sensibility led to a much more original feel with the robots than with Slaine. And in the tunnels the lack of backgrounds made sense and made for some striking design work. I remember seeing an original page once which was mind blowing. In my memory it was over a metre high, and with it being his breakthrough gig the detail he put into the inking was borderline insane. An artistic triumph.
I was trying to find out just how big those pages were when I stumbled on this from Pat re their Book of Scars collaboration. Slough Feg, apparently. It's from http://www.simonbisleyart.com/
"I was delighted to be working with Simon again. I haven't seen the end result yet, but I just know it's going to be amazing. Simon and I had a very amusing conversation working his story out and he's as imaginative and creative as ever. It's not giving too much away to say it features the Return of Slough Feg, picking up where we left off. We've also been working on another project recently which hopefully will come to fruition. His talents are very wide and I think the kind of things we work on together stretch us both which has to be a good thing."
Slaine artists are all so good its near impossible to rank. I think Glenn's b&w is my fave, then McMahon's groundbreaking run.
Word ;)
Isn't Slough Feg just Slaine these days? The Old Horned God still clinging to life long after he should have gone into the ground? ;)
I think we shouldn't miss the point about those days of painted artwork. Bisley isn't guilty for a whole offspring of the often refered "Bisley clones"(I totally disagree on labelling most of those guys like this).He's was rather out-spoken on this topic and those chaps who started their carrers out of Bisley achievements occasionally, found their own voice.
The Horned God was one of those moments in the 80s where the comics grew up. It's both,a piece of epic poetry and FINE ART(yes,some of those pages should be hanging on the walls of the bloody Tate Modern).Doing a quick parallel with Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns,while the story-telling is the driven-force here,Miller's drawings by themselves are frankly(no pun intended) shitty,which doesn't diminish the brilliancy of the story-telling,looking through a proper perspective upon that book.
Bisley's artwork on Horned God isn't driven by story-telling which is only functional there. It's about use of colour schemes,inovative character's design,composition,some experimentalism and sheer power. That's why speed is so important for his approach,is like try to capture that glimpse of idea we've got in our minds,once you slow down and start to polish and overwork it too much you lose the moment,that certain freshness....and end up looking like Boris Vallejo or Alex Ross.
(Why on earth am I finishing a post with "Alex Ross"?!Ah,heck...)
Quote from: Richmond Clements on 27 April, 2013, 10:18:22 PM
Quotencidentally, I've been re-reading Slaine out-of-order lately and was quite surprised how very poor Bisley's work looked (to me) when juxtaposed with McMahon, Bellardinelli and Fabry, the odd static image aside.
Ah, I thought it was just me!
I have always said that I think Bisley's work on Slaine will be great when he eventually finishes the pages...
I'll tell him that the next time I see him at a Con that you're at as well Rich :lol:
Tend to agree though, it was great at the time, but the time was one of rose tinted glasses (mostly your real glasses but given a light wash with a cerulean gouache) and looking back it's kind of, "of its time" - like listening to a song ten years later, so definition is lost, the sounds not as great the hype's not there to support the lack of distinctiveness.
Quote from: StahlMench on 29 April, 2013, 07:16:21 PM
I think we shouldn't miss the point about those days of painted artwork. Bisley isn't guilty for a whole offspring of the often refered "Bisley clones"(I totally disagree on labelling most of those guys like this).He's was rather out-spoken on this topic and those chaps who started their carrers out of Bisley achievements occasionally, found their own voice.
The Horned God was one of those moments in the 80s where the comics grew up. It's both,a piece of epic poetry and FINE ART(yes,some of those pages should be hanging on the walls of the bloody Tate Modern).Doing a quick parallel with Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns,while the story-telling is the driven-force here,Miller's drawings by themselves are frankly(no pun intended) shitty,which doesn't diminish the brilliancy of the story-telling,looking through a proper perspective upon that book.
Bisley's artwork on Horned God isn't driven by story-telling which is only functional there. It's about use of colour schemes,inovative character's design,composition,some experimentalism and sheer power. That's why speed is so important for his approach,is like try to capture that glimpse of idea we've got in our minds,once you slow down and start to polish and overwork it too much you lose the moment,that certain freshness....and end up looking like Boris Vallejo or Alex Ross.
(Why on earth am I finishing a post with "Alex Ross"?!Ah,heck...)
COMIC SANS!
Interesting stuff.
(Personally, I admire anyone with the independence to post in Comic Sans. Because the fuss people make about it is vastly out of proportion to the typographical deficiency of the font. I may well publish everything I ever do in Comic Sans just to wind the style police up :) ).
Quote from: Montynero on 29 April, 2013, 07:29:06 PMPersonally, I admire anyone with the independence to post in Comic Sans. Because the fuss people make about it is vastly out of proportion to the typographical deficiency of the font.
Moral relativism gone mad. I blame the beardies up at the Poly.
Quote from: Montynero on 29 April, 2013, 07:29:06 PM
Because the fuss people make about it is vastly out of proportion to the typographical deficiency of the font.
My beef with it is largely in the amateurish kerning, TBH. Pat Brosseau recently lettered an entire book in Comic Sans and simply fixed the spacing as he went along and used a lower case 'l' in place of the erroneous crossbar 'I' and the results looked quite acceptable.
However, Comic Sans combined with the point size in that post actually hurts my eyes. If that's a conscious style choice, StahlMench, I'd ask you to re-consider because I'll have to stick you on ignore.
Cheers
Jim
Good point, Jim.
One of these days there's gonna be a perfect shitstorm of a post. It will defend comic/nerd mysogyny using horrifyingly bad grammar, terrible spelling, a smidgen of bigotry, lashings of ad hominem arguements, and it will all be rendered in comic sans. And the forum will implode.
I'm the sort of person that would smash the world to see if'n it made a pretty noise, but even I am above authoring such a post.
[spoiler]
Or iz I?[/spoiler]
Ha, Internet... you gotta love it. I was completely unaware of the controversy surrounding this font.
What was really the subject? Oh, yes, Bisley and Fabry back on Slaine ... please, carry on...
Quote from: StahlMench on 29 April, 2013, 08:36:13 PM
Ha, Internet... you gotta love it. I was completely unaware of the controversy surrounding this font.
What was really the subject? Oh, yes, Bisley and Fabry back on Slaine ... please, carry on...
You've just discovered another reason this place can be great. Thread titles are more of a guideline around there parts...
Quote from: Richmond Clements on 29 April, 2013, 08:41:36 PM
Quote from: StahlMench on 29 April, 2013, 08:36:13 PM
Ha, Internet... you gotta love it. I was completely unaware of the controversy surrounding this font.
What was really the subject? Oh, yes, Bisley and Fabry back on Slaine ... please, carry on...
You've just discovered another reason this place can be great. Thread titles are more of a guideline around there parts...
THESE parts! What's wrong with you man? Consonantstipation? Along with your irritable vowel syndrome? You should go see a doctor
See, I have the power to delete this mistake out of history, but I shall not, because I am a kindly god.
Quote from: El Pops on 29 April, 2013, 08:32:19 PM
One of these days there's gonna be a perfect shitstorm of a post. It will defend comic/nerd mysogyny using horrifyingly bad grammar, terrible spelling, a smidgen of bigotry, lashings of ad hominem arguements, and it will all be rendered in comic sans. And the forum will implode.
I'm the sort of person that would smash the world to see if'n it made a pretty noise, but even I am above authoring such a post.
[spoiler]
Or iz I?[/spoiler]
Just for that I will add lensflares to the top right corner of every comic sans letter I post, forming a topless collage of Judge Anderson when you narrow your horrified eyes. ;)
It's impossible to tire of looking at black and white Biz or McMahon:
http://mojobob.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/mike-mcmahons-slaine.html
http://www.gavinrothery.com/my-blog/2011/11/6/simon-bisleys-abc-warriors.html
Though frankly I'm happy as long as they're all doing what genuinely inspires them.
Quote from: Richmond Clements on 29 April, 2013, 09:46:02 PM
See, I have the power to delete this mistake out of history, but I shall not, because I am a kindly god.
A kindly god....that's why I prefer this place to the real world
Sorry to divert the talk back from fonts, but I'm really excited about this Slaine thing. Glen Fabry's black and white work on Slaine the King is some if my favourite Slaine artwork, probably because that's the form in which I first saw the story. I also loved Simon Bisley's sumptuous colour work in the first half of The Horned God but agree that the artwork started to lack something in the second half of that story.
Yeah. There's something about Fabry's black and white realisation of that world, making the fantasy and the characters SO real, that trumps his other work for me. It's slightly less exciting to see the contemporary world rendered by his hand, because we see that in detail all the time. Yet it wasn't so fantastical a world that his literal interpretation seemed stilted. Plus his work was evolving after sharing the art duties with David Pugh, who also did good stuff, and that joy and excitement at what he was capable of on his own just radiates from the progs. Even now.
Glenn Fabry is my most favourite black and white Slaine artist. In that order I list most favourite to least favourite.
Mick McMahon
Massimo Bellardenelli
David Pugh
Angie Kincaid
and the rest of them I don't remember.
Simon Bisley is my favorite coloured Slaine artist.
Then Clint Lanely
Dermot Power
The rest aren't worth mentioning.
I like Dermot Power a lot. Brilliant painter, wonderful comic/concept artist. But I found his Slaine underwhelming somehow. Maybe just a style thing - the proportions and compositions didn't seem to suit the subject matter - or maybe the story was just a bit dull at that point.
I always thought Dermot Power's art on Sláine was like a bit like Fabry with all the evergy and verve sucked out of it
However, his current stuff is incredible
http://www.dermotpower.com/
Anyone painting Slaine after Biz and Fabry had their work cut out, to say the least. Super talented artist though, and I thought his style suited Dredd much better. Luxor, anyone?