I was looking forward to picking this new collection of Halo Jones up; I haven't read any of it before.
I'm loath to buy poor quality re-prints though (I tracked down original edition books or single progs to complete my Slaine collection, instead of buying more recent re-prints). The one review on Amazon says the new Halo Jones is poor quality and detracts from the original art.
Can anyone in the know on here confirm how accurate the review is? I was looking forward to buying it but will try and track down an older edition if this new version isn't up to scratch.
Cheers
The artwork has been shrunk down to a trade paperback format.
I think the original prog frame size was about 21x25cm, and here it's down to 17x20cm.
This makes Gibson's detailed art look rather messy and cluttered in places.
There are also some reproduction problems that particularly seem to affect book 3.
The contrast seems wrong with too much white and some of the detail has dropped out. Dodgy scanning or something.
You may be able to see the difference on these two scans.
The first is from the Best of 2000AD monthly reprint of the original progs
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r182/Caliban_photos/Halo1_zpsaacdd3e8.jpg)
and this is from the new trade. Look at the cadets' uniforms
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r182/Caliban_photos/Halo2_zps70a9c926.jpg)
I had high hopes for the Lauren Beukes introduction but it's only about half a page of text saying she likes Halo Jones (duh).
If you can track down the Titan reprint collections you will probably be better off.
Is the new book out yet?
Yeah, pretty sure I saw it in FP.
I haven't looked closely at this particular trade, but I'm not suprised that Gibson's finer linework might get lost in the reduction.
I'm guessing the hardback Titan one has the best repro, but I would loved to have seen something like that with a colour gallery of the original Titan covers, colour posters etc.
Quote from: Steve Green on 27 May, 2013, 05:44:58 PM
Yeah, pretty sure I saw it in FP. I haven't looked closely at this particular trade, but I'm not suprised that Gibson's finer linework might get lost in the reduction. I'm guessing the hardback Titan one has the best repro, but I would loved to have seen something like that with a colour gallery of the original Titan covers, colour posters etc.
Same thing happens with Ron Smith's brushwork in the Case Files; more graphic styles such as Bolland and McMahon survive the step down much better. It's nice to have these volumes for convenience and to make the stories available to new readers, but if you've got the originals that's always going to be the best way to enjoy the artwork.
Thanks eamon1961, that is a big difference. I bet it's pretty difficult to track those Titans down, but I may well consider it on this evidence!
Quote from: ThryllSeekyr on 27 May, 2013, 02:50:44 PM
Is the new book out yet?
Book 4? No, no way, no how
The new trade paperback collection with the strange cover and the indroduction by Lauren Beukes?. Yup, out and about
Quote from: Steve Green on 27 May, 2013, 05:44:58 PM
I'm guessing the hardback Titan one has the best repro
I still think the first Titan editions printed on matte card-stock are the best versions of old b/w 2000AD. The glossy pages don't look as well to me even less than the dearly missed bog-paper.
Matte is always the best way to go for B&W, gloss is fine for colour. Titan had the benefit of having the then IPC archive provide them with either the originals or proofs of the originals. The Titan versions are the best available, the newsprint can be just a good but with a little bit of time spent on the page.
A few weeks ago I had all the Halo Jones Titan versions in my hands at the local Oxfam. It was a case of shall I, shan't I? Said to myself I will hold out for the new version so put those back on the shelf. I do need to revisit Halo Jones as I didn't really get it when it was originally published.
Let me guess, SuperSurfer, the Titans were a bargain price. A quick scan of eBay revealed one copy for £15 and that was only book 1. On the other hand, the Best of 2000AD comics can be picked up reasonably cheaply...
Would those in the know recommend the comics over the new book if the Titans are beyond the reach? Eamon's scan is from those comics, but has the paper stock stood the test of time?
Simeon
My copy of Halo is the Titan omnibus from 2001, and while it lacks the lovely triptych of covers of the originals, the pages are full-size and the repro is superb, pin-sharp linework detail and good solid blacks. The belligerent Moore intro and scattering of Gibson sketches are nice too.
Out of curiosity, any idea what happened to the films/scans that Titan used?
Did they still keep hold of them or were they lost/destroyed when they no longer reprinted 2000AD series?
Were the films themselves the property of Titan, even though they were reprinting someone else's IP?
I've noticed that some of the IDW pages of the Bolland collection are not as good as the Titan Judge Death hardback, it's a shame that they don't seem to be able to use what's existed before.
Cheers
Steve
Thanks for those scans eamon1961. I think I'll give the new reprint a swerve. Its a shame because I would have liked to get a new copy but no point paying out for poor quality.
You may as well have a look for yourself rather than relying on a scan.
I've been noticing this also on some of the recent releases. The GNs based on newer stuff such as origins, chaos day, zombo all look great but there is a step down with the reprints of older material. They do seem to suffer a lot from the reduction in size and a lot of it seems a bit bleached. It's strange that reprint material from the late 80s is coming up better than a modern day release.
Agree with Steve though, the best thing to do is go to your local comic shop and see for yourself.
Quote from: Recrewt on 28 May, 2013, 01:30:05 PM
It's strange that reprint material from the late 80s is coming up better than a modern day release.
Why is that strange? In the 80s there was presumably relatively easy access to the original art/films. These days most of the original stuff will be in the hands of collectors (or lost or destroyed) and the reprints have to be sourced from second-hand sources, so the quality is bound to start suffering if you're working off a second or third generation copy.
I know a lot of the Case Files pages had to be taken from Eagle and Titan reprints, hence why some of the 'next time...' end captions don't actually match the story order. The Meltdown Man films were all wrecked by water damage and the only reason the reprint could happen (the EE, then the graphic novel) was because Robby Cox had virtually the entire original story in his possession and could lend it to the repro droids. Most stories have been long since split up and aren't so lucky.
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 28 May, 2013, 01:44:52 PM
I know a lot of the Case Files pages had to be taken from Eagle and Titan reprints, hence why some of the 'next time...' end captions don't actually match the story order.
You know, I wondered why that was. Thanks for solving that particular mystery,
Dark Jimbo!
This edition does lose some definition but it is still a damn fine read. I guess the fact I own the original Progs and used to regularly re-read them may mean I'm not too troubled that things aren't perfect.
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 28 May, 2013, 01:44:52 PM
Quote from: Recrewt on 28 May, 2013, 01:30:05 PM
It's strange that reprint material from the late 80s is coming up better than a modern day release.
Why is that strange? In the 80s there was presumably relatively easy access to the original art/films. These days most of the original stuff will be in the hands of collectors (or lost or destroyed) and the reprints have to be sourced from second-hand sources, so the quality is bound to start suffering if you're working off a second or third generation copy.
I know a lot of the Case Files pages had to be taken from Eagle and Titan reprints, hence why some of the 'next time...' end captions don't actually match the story order. The Meltdown Man films were all wrecked by water damage and the only reason the reprint could happen (the EE, then the graphic novel) was because Robby Cox had virtually the entire original story in his possession and could lend it to the repro droids. Most stories have been long since split up and aren't so lucky.
It is a bit like Dr Who episodes from Hartnell & Troughton era...
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 28 May, 2013, 01:44:52 PM
Quote from: Recrewt on 28 May, 2013, 01:30:05 PM
It's strange that reprint material from the late 80s is coming up better than a modern day release.
Why is that strange? In the 80s there was presumably relatively easy access to the original art/films. These days most of the original stuff will be in the hands of collectors (or lost or destroyed) and the reprints have to be sourced from second-hand sources, so the quality is bound to start suffering if you're working off a second or third generation copy.
I know a lot of the Case Files pages had to be taken from Eagle and Titan reprints, hence why some of the 'next time...' end captions don't actually match the story order. The Meltdown Man films were all wrecked by water damage and the only reason the reprint could happen (the EE, then the graphic novel) was because Robby Cox had virtually the entire original story in his possession and could lend it to the repro droids. Most stories have been long since split up and aren't so lucky.
Interesting stuff Dark Jimbo. The reason I thought it strange is because although I am aware that it is difficult to obtain originals for all stories, we have had 20+ years of advancements in printing and computing technology. There are numerous ways of enhancing and 'cleaning' images that were not around in the 80s. Although I appreciate it is always best to work with originals where possible.
Quote from: Recrewt on 28 May, 2013, 02:17:09 PM
The reason I thought it strange is because although I am aware that it is difficult to obtain originals for all stories, we have had 20+ years of advancements in printing and computing technology. There are numerous ways of enhancing and 'cleaning' images that were not around in the 80s.
I've scanned literally tens of thousands of assorted photos and pieces of artwork over the years, and have been involved in a couple of comic 'restoration' projects in recent years. The problem is that comic artwork — B&W linework in particular — is massively unforgiving of any kind of post-processing efforts. There is literally no way of rescuing lineart if the material available for scanning is sub-standard, short of employing someone to actually redraw problematic parts of the artwork.
Cheers
Jim
Presumably it's a legal or financial issue of not being able to scan Titan's editions as a source, rather than a technical one then?
Quote from: Recrewt on 28 May, 2013, 02:17:09 PM
There are numerous ways of enhancing and 'cleaning' images that were not around in the 80s. Although I appreciate it is always best to work with originals where possible.
There's only so much you can do when the detail's no longer there.
Yep.
(http://www.therightsphere.com/wp-content/uploads/62428391_frescopic1.gif)
That comparison is from Slaine: Lord of Misrule, yeah?
;)
Quote from: TordelBack on 28 May, 2013, 03:11:23 PM
That comparison is from Slaine: Lord of Misrule, yeah?
;)
ZING!
I picked this up the other day as my only other option for re-reading Halo Jones is in a few very old & worn 'Best of 2000AD Monthly' comics.
Wish I'd seen this thread first, but not too annoyed considering the price (t'was only 16 Euro).
Quote from: Richmond Clements on 28 May, 2013, 03:13:49 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 28 May, 2013, 03:11:23 PM
That comparison is from Slaine: Lord of Misrule, yeah?
;)
ZING!
*chortle*
As for buying the latest Halo Jones reprint, I would respectfully point out that doing so would mean income for 2000AD, while buying second-hand books from eBay doesn't benefit the comic at all. I'm sorry to read that the quality may not be what it was in the 80s but I'm not seeing anyone saying the book is unreadable.
Please support your local Betelgeusian!
Quote from: Trout on 28 May, 2013, 04:24:45 PM
Please support your local Betelgeusian!
Indeed. I haven't seen a copy in the flesh yet, but the new design looks great on the screen. Resizing is often problematic for 2000AD's super-dense art, but if it gets one of the greatest comics of all time into wider circulation it gets a thumbs-up from me.
And, just for the record, I actually think Langley's re-working on
Lord of Misrule is excellent. Wasn't anything wrong with the original linework, but the colour jiggery-pokery makes the whole volume flow very well.
Sharkbahtm. He'll only blow it all on plastic cups and we know it.
I've bought Halo Jones in just about every version and collection that has been published including the new trade signed by Ian Gibson himself.
Tharg owes me a plastic cup next time I see him.
:D
I should say so!
and just to complete the set I got my daughter to scan the same page from the Titan collection I gave her
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r182/Caliban_photos/HAlo3_zps768a7ca0.jpg)
I saw the review on Amazon someone mentioned here. I found it useful because it answered a question I had about the reproduction, but I wish he could have rated the content (surely five stars!) and then gone on to mention his gripes about the reproduction. It's a great story that I think could bring happiness to a lot of people who've never heard of it before, and it would be a shame if they were put off from picking it up because of a relatively minor issue.
I had a good long look at the Halo Jones book in a bookshop yesterday. The vast majority of the repro seems excellent, albeit constrained by reduction and taller format, with the Cannibal/Recruits sequence cited above being by far the most notable problem - and even then only if you were familiar with earlier editions of the material. It's a nice looking book in handy size, with a very stylish cover, and the Beukes intro is a short but effusive endorsement. My only gripe would be the omission of Moore's amusing intros and Gibson's sketches from the original Titans. If I wasn't already the proud owner of the material in three formats, I'd definitely pick one up.