As announced over on CBR:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=45933 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=45933)
Quite a cool team line-up. Whilst I do have issues with Marvel's frustrating inability to launch a title without labelling it 'Avengers' these days - the oversaturation of the line is ridiculous - the presence of Mr. Ewing makes this a clear buy for me, and I do like some of the oddball choices for the team.
Arh now damn I'm torn here. I really want to give this a go as Al Ewing is a hell of a writer and I'd love to see what he'd do with an ongoing mainstream Marvel title BUT and its a pretty big but I'm not sure this is a title I can make myself interested in. Its an okay line-up, no real favs of mine there, its just it seems to be heavily tied into this Infinite event and these sort of tie-ins at Marvel leave me so cold.
This goes firmly into we'll see territory.
Bollocks and its just clicked that Greg Land is on art, which I think counts it out for me unless I hear wonderful things about it.
Yeah, I probably should have mentioned that bit. Then again, Kieron Gillen managed some excellent 'Uncanny X-Men' comics with Land on art duties, so it's not a deal-breaker for me, though I totally understand it may well be for others. I do share your concerns about comics launching out of Marvel events, Colin, though for me the idea of Al Ewing on a high profile, mainstream, Marvel ongoing outweighs any other concerns. I will be absolutely fascinated to see what he can do with it – I'm particularly curious to see if his wildly eccentric streak and his absolutely sparkling dialogue make a sound transition. Plus I really like some of the line-up: Falcon's an old favourite, Otto Octavius is the star of my favourite comic of the moment, and some of the out-there choices like Blue Marvel and the new non-Cage Power Man really appeal.
I get the impression that the character line-up is editorially-mandated, and that would be more of a concern for me than Greg Land drawing it* - I'm sure Al will do well with anyone, but if they can give him characters they can take them away, which tends to happen if/when characters break out. Otherwise I'm good to go on this: Al Ewing writing an Avengers-brand title. Well done, that man.
*Never really got the hate. A bit static or cheesecakey here and there, but otherwise a solid and reliable artist.
I don't read much US stuff these days so no idea who the artist is. I'll get issue 1 and see what I think.
Line up wise... Luke Cage plus Power Man!!! That sounds very interesting. Will need to see that.
Quote from: Professor James T Bear on 07 June, 2013, 08:57:59 PM
*Never really got the hate. A bit static or cheesecakey here and there, but otherwise a solid and reliable artist.
He
has blatantly traced a lot of his work, and not just from comics. I think it's pretty clear where he's tracing the cheesecake stuff from.
Maybe working with Al will be a good thing for him then...
Though I assume Al's woking relationship on this won't be like with Henry on Zombo.
Quote from: El Pops on 07 June, 2013, 10:34:45 PMHe has blatantly traced a lot of his work, and not just from comics. I think it's pretty clear where he's tracing the cheesecake stuff from.
Any artist who uses Poser or Sketchup or whatever has traced in their work (Mike Deodato Jr uses both heavily), as has any artist who's utilised photo reference (like Clint Langley or Edmund Bagwell) via photoshop or Manga Studio or whatever - this is also tracing, just in a more futuristic fashion.
Granted Land maybe uses too much porn as reference, but you try typing anything at all into Google Images and not get porn in the results.
The intention of this thread isn't to turn into a Greg Land bash I'm sure BUT (isn't there always) its not that he uses photo-reference but that he does so with such a lack of skill (to my eyes) in terms of character, expression and design. He's art seems determined by the source, rather than his source being termed by the art and the stories need.
That's an inevitability of using photoreference - you can spend all your time looking for a picture that is exactly like your pencil roughs/thumbnail layouts (the same pose, same angle, etc), or you can use the first thing that vaguely fits the bill of what the script requires and just get on with it. The former results in pages that tell a story much closer to the artists' vision than the latter, but the latter results in you actually getting your work finished on time and getting paid.
Using photo reference isn't naughty. Many artists use mirrors and their own body of course.
Quote from: Professor James T Bear on 08 June, 2013, 03:24:06 PM
That's an inevitability of using photoreference
Nonsense there a lot of people photo-referencing out there with out any of the problems that Land has. heck as far back as Frank Hampson if I'm not mistaken?
I am pretty sure Frank Hampson didn't use photoshop and/or porn images he found on the web, but Wake might be a more reliable information source there.
Actually, now I think of it I am vaguely curious to see how Dan Dare would have turned out if Hampson had made the strip using only a lightbox and old copies of razzle he found in a hedge.
Quote from: Professor James T Bear on 08 June, 2013, 06:36:08 PM
I am pretty sure Frank Hampson didn't use photoshop and/or porn images he found on the web, but Wake might be a more reliable information source there.
Quite right and none as which, which I'd really hope you realise and are just being silly, I wasn't suggesting. However just to be sure, in case you actually weren't being facetious, there's a clear difference between photo-referencing as you discussed (emphasis on you broadening the conversation to photo-referencing in general, I tried to refer back to Greg Land's techniques specifically) and simply using Photoshop and porn models.
I believe Frank Hampson actually made physical props for his models to use.
There's nothing wrong with photo referencing, even from porn mags if its what the story requires! Much of the 'art' in comics is down to how well the reader can follow the story and how identifiable the characters are. If you get someone that's half decent at character / set / prop design (for want of better terms) it's the icing on the cake.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 08 June, 2013, 06:59:16 PM(emphasis on you broadening the conversation to photo-referencing in general
I wasn't moving the goalposts by using that term, I clearly went into specifics such as tools used and creators, and didn't use the word
photoreferencing in the classical sense of "just looking" at photos - though I feel compelled to point out that even looking at photos and drawing what you see is frowned upon as "cheating" by many who teach fine art.
Quote from: Professor James T Bear on 08 June, 2013, 07:58:34 PM
I feel compelled to point out that even looking at photos and drawing what you see is frowned upon as "cheating" by many who teach fine art.
thats a whole different kettle of fish.
glad to see a convo about art though.
Land must have enough fans for marvel to keep him in and on the top titles aswell although googling his name comes up with more hate-centric results than positive results. I'm not a fan though however it is still readable compared to some art my eyes reject immeadiatley.
Also like to point out that with Land, the things hes being called out for seems to be things I'd expect to see in the the early, early works of a comic book artist in the indie world.the google images,porn and reusing poses for covers which is acceptable for the junior stages of the career but this guy's being paid for it which racks my brains a bit.
And considering the main infinity title has Lenil Yu and Opena amongst others working on it, and the best of the rest tied up on other marvel now titles it may have been a case of 'who's availiable?'
would like to add that the book has an interesting concept and I love me those street level heroes.
Big old interview over at CBR
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=46147 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=46147)
Written Marvel-style. Interesting.
Sold.
Stevie's not remotely a Marvel fan but when arguably the most fiendishly talented UK write to enter the field since Grant Morrison & Warren Ellis makes statements like the following:
Quote
It's a really fun way to work, I've been finding -- there's something about having the art in front of you while you do the dialogue that just opens up all sorts of new possibilities, and I'm really looking forward to every new page that comes in.
...then you can consider him all over this like Buttonman on a copy of
Reader's Wives.