A celebration of 2000 AD on the Guardian website:
http://www.theguardian.com/books/video/2013/aug/09/judge-dredd-edinburgh-celebration-2000ad-video
Splundigs.
Excellent stuff! :)
Really lovely in-depth feature, this. Nice to have it talked about as something that's still current and still has something to say - so often when it's featured on mainstream stuff they never even mention it's "still going" and so you always get this unfortunate reaction from people you tell that you read 2000ad "oh - is that still going?"
STONGER THAN EVER SIR.
Agree with CFM on that point. Really positive article, not dwelling on the "childhood memories" aspect, but focusing on the comic today, the audience it appeals to and what it is trying to do to differentiate itself from other mediums, like books and movies.
Good little tour of the offices - interesting to see the archives - and glad they work in as big a mess as I do :)
Great feature - don't forget to comment, everyone? The more clicks and comments, the more likely it is future articles on British comics get commissioned!
Great to see 2000AD getting some recognition.
Nice to see round the offices and archives also but you guys need to get some more posters on those walls!
Yes, but did you read the caption?
Please don't let that be so. :'(
Quote from: SuperSurfer on 09 August, 2013, 02:23:15 PM
Yes, but did you read the caption?
Please don't let that be so. :'(
Which - the one about the number of copies it sells?
Quote from: Recrewt on 09 August, 2013, 02:40:14 PM
Quote from: SuperSurfer on 09 August, 2013, 02:23:15 PM
Yes, but did you read the caption?
Please don't let that be so. :'(
Which - the one about the number of copies it sells?
Yes. Quite shocked if that is true.
Quote from: SuperSurfer on 09 August, 2013, 02:44:25 PM
Yes. Quite shocked if that is true.
I have no idea why... every time one of the 'guess the circulation' threads has come up, the 25,000 figure from the last ABC in 2000 was trotted out and someone (usually me) would point out that Keith Richardson's first ECBT interview referred to a programme of expansion arising from sales "stabilising" meaning that they had clearly fallen, and done so for quite some time, from that 25K figure.
Some back of the envelope maths and a bit of educated guesswork on 15K suggests a tidy per-issue profit even if every copy was sold via the high street retail channel. Given (I believe) a fairly healthy subscriber base who deliver more of the cover price to the Rebellion coffers, that suggests a reasonably solid financial position for the Galaxy's Greatest.
Add to that reports from MOLCH-R of rising sales and brisk sales of the trades and I'm not
massively concerned. Take a look at what US monthlies sell some time...!
Cheers
Jim
I wasn't clear if that circulation was just the paper issues. A growing number of people, me included, subscribe to the digital version (that's not an invitation to have the paper vs digital debate again - please find that other thread if you want to comment on it!) so if that is in addition to the circulation figure - add that to Jim's fag packet numbers and the picture looks even better...
Quote from: SimeonB on 09 August, 2013, 03:16:19 PM
so if that is in addition to the circulation figure - add that to Jim's fag packet numbers and the picture looks even better...
It's likely the total including digital, but digital sales have a lower overhead (no print costs!) than physical so are — I would imagine — better for Rebellion's coffers than a paper sale, even after the app store cut.
Cheers
Jim
The fact that 15,000 copies of what is such a top notch product are being sold weekly felt disappointing – but I admit that feeling was not based on facts as yes, it has been a case of guess the circulation.
Indeed, there is more to 2000AD than the prog and thank God for the trades.
12 years on from the ABC quoted figures is a heck of a long time ago and publishing has been thrown up in the air since then. Many previously well established publications have disappeared eg I was shocked to read recently that Newsweek does not exist.
Cheers for putting things into perspective.
15k does seem quite small but like Jim, I'm not too concerned. I definitely get the impression that trades sales are doing well (some of the case files are constantly being reprinted) and thats where a lot of the money is nowadays - even for the likes of DC/Marvel.
Whenever we discuss circulation the main thing that stops me worrying unduly (from my position of utter ignorance and naive optimism) is the fact that there's no let up in the quality of creators on 2000ad itself or the Meg more particularly. While there's enough in the bank to splash out on the occasional Bolland here, or Fabry there, with a dash of McMahons and Bisleys for good measure. Must mean the comic is paying enough to keep the top rate creators it has on its books happy and enough change to drag the A list back every so often. No change in production values and I also assume (naive optimism see) that any increased use of black and white is for artist reasons rather than to cut costs?
The only change of significance is the Meg using more creator owned material. Now is this cost saving, acknowledging a shift in creators desires or a happy combination of both, who knows but its not overly alarming, is keeping some top draw talent associated with the brand and so can only be a good thing. I'd have thought we'd see problems with the Meg long before 2000ad was in danger, though as ever that's said from a position of supreme ignorance.
Whether its the comic selling well, or trade sales bolstering floppies money who knows, if its working and the arrival of digital is opening up new markets and thus new revenue, who cares.
Surely the comic is in rude health... or am I too naively optimistic?
The number 1 take-away from this little documentary is optimism. I genuinely feel optimistic about this great comic, and about Rebellion itself. I think the fact that Surfer felt disappointed with the circulation figures is an indication of that optimisim. Why aren't more people enjoying this wonderful comic!
Like any good corporate, Rebellion must be thinking about how to improve the sales figures, and not rest on it's laurels. The recent success of the Day of Chaos trades, the fact that CCFs are constantly being reprinted and interest in the Dredd movie can only make us and them feel that optimism more acutely.
I'm with Colin - optimism all the way!
BTW that's 13 years since the ABC figures. I am not to be trusted with numbers.
Oh and another piece of healthy perspective based on the 15,000 sales figure itself.
If you look at the sales estimates from Diamond from the North American market (with all the health warnings and caveats attached to those of course), outside the big two (Marvel and DC) using the June 2013 sales figures a circulation of 15,000 would put 2000ad as the 23rd best selling comic (at 144 over all, but as you can see the top 100 is dominated by Marvel and DC).
Of the 22 that would be above it I think 5 were number 1s and so numbers will fall for those titles and another 5 or 6 where 2 or 3 where you can expect there to be significant drops still.
Of those 22 8 have some kinda mass market tie in, so Walking Dead (Telly show), My Little Pony, girls toy, Star Wars etc etc.
The comics charts as discussed here are normally run as a top 300. The comics under treat do vary a great deal, so a Marvel comics below 20,000 is considered in danger, a DC comic under say 15,000 is in trouble, comics at the bottom are normally in the edge too regardless of publisher. They sale between 4000 - 5000 typically, so a third of what 2000ad does in a much smaller market.
Its fine, 15000 is a great figure.
Setting 2000ad's prominence in popular culture in some kind of context; according to the ABC data (http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/node/49860), Tharg has those bastards at Pregnancy & Birth and Your Hair magazine in his sights. Of course, they're monthly lifestyle publications, rather than weekly sci-fi comics. The Dandy had dipped to around 7,000 (http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2012/08/decline-classic-boys-comics) per week before DCT thought about closing it.
I was pleasantly surprised to see Neil Gaiman saying nice things, so he joins Millar and Ennis among the ranks of alumni with a bit of heft in the wider culture who are still good for a quote or two when the telly comes calling. His Mad magazine comparison isn't so far off in relation to a lot of W&G and Mills's Thatcher era stuff. Dan Abnett wins top honours for pointing out that there's no such thing as a fucking graphic novel.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 09 August, 2013, 03:04:37 PM
Add to that reports from MOLCH-R of rising sales and brisk sales of the trades and I'm not massively concerned. Take a look at what US monthlies sell some time...!
Damn straight. The IDW Dredd sells about 9-10,000 a month and Year One about 8-9,000 so 2000AD's 60,000 a month (and we're getting 5 stories in one comic) is heartening.
June 2013 Comic Book Sales Figures
Estimated Comics Sold to North American Comics Shops
as Reported by Diamond Comic Distributors Comic-book Title Issue Price Publisher Est. sales1 Superman Unchained 1 $4.99 DC 251,456
2 Batman Superman 1 $3.99 DC 143,457
3 Batman 21 $3.99 DC 142,088
4 Age of Ultron 10 $3.99 Marvel 110,947
5 Age of Ultron 9 $3.99 Marvel 94,926
6 Justice League 21 $3.99 DC 94,054
7 Superior Spider-Man 11 $3.99 Marvel 84,219
8 Superior Spider-Man 12 $3.99 Marvel 82,338
9 All New X-Men 12 $3.99 Marvel 82,178
10 Kick-Ass 3 1 $2.99 Marvel 78,035
11 All New X-Men 13 $3.99 Marvel 77,656
12 Guardians of Galaxy 3 $3.99 Marvel 75,633
13 Walking Dead 111 $2.99 Image 74,857
14 Avengers 14 $3.99 Marvel 74,846
15 Uncanny X-Men 7 $3.99 Marvel 73,719
16 Age of Ultron 10AI $3.99 Marvel 73,616
17 X-Men 2 $3.99 Marvel 73,542
18 Green Lantern 21 $2.99 DC 71,870
19 Uncanny Avengers 9 $3.99 Marvel 71,842
20 Justice League of America 5 $3.99 DC 71,793
21 Guardians of Galaxy 4 $3.99 Marvel 71,575
22 Avengers 13 $3.99 Marvel 68,624
23 Detective Comics 21 $3.99 DC 65,200
24 Batman and Batgirl 21 $2.99 DC 60,601
25 New Avengers 7 $3.99 Marvel 60,138
26 Savage Wolverine 6 $3.99 Marvel 59,410
Yeah but adding the four issues together to get 60,000 while accurate, isn't a fair reflection against a title that has one issue per month. It would be more akin to adding say 4 of the Avengers titles together, or four of the Batman titles together.
Of course the great thing with 2000ad is that, as you say, you get 5 very diverse stories as opposed to 4 Batman or Avengers titles!
In the interests of only comparing apples with other apples, those US titles are selling most of their copies in a country with a population of 317 million, and a working age population of around 240 million. Both equivalent UK figures are around a fifth as large - using the miracle of fan logic, that means Tharg would be shifting the same numbers as The Walking Dead if the Command Module had landed on Madison Avenue instead of the South Bank of the Thames.
Back in the real world; according to those figures posted by SOAP, a year's worth of the prog costs around four times that of a typical US title. That means 2000ad generates greater revenue for Rebellion than The Avengers does for Marvel.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 09 August, 2013, 10:05:37 PM
Yeah but adding the four issues together to get 60,000 while accurate, isn't a fair reflection against a title that has one issue per month. It would be more akin to adding say 4 of the Avengers titles together, or four of the Batman titles together.
I'm assuming the majority of 2000AD's paper sales are in the UK and with only having about 1/5th the population of the US it kind of balances out those North America
only sales.
Brilliant little documentary! I'm firmly in the optimism camp and am off to post links to it on other forums on t'internet right now. Great work team!
From someone inside the publishing industry, I wouldn't be terribly concerned about circulation—profit is more important, including group profit. I've written for mags with circulations of just a few thousand and they've been fine; conversely, I've heard of publications struggling once they dip below 100,000, because they're not profitable at that point.
While speculation on sales is interesting, I'm still boggling at the Nerve Centre's Thrill Archives. Bound copies! And those films! Zarjaz.
Yeah, seeing the collection of old films was the most interesting bit of the piece for me.
I've just noticed that they have 2 copies of each bound volume of Progs.
What a great video.
A few thoughts:
Tharg, watch out for that bloke sitting on the left of screen in the establishing office interior shot. He's not working, he's reading a bloody comic!
He's probably the bloke that nicked your space spinner - I noticed it was missing from the cover of the bound edition.
Good to see Rebellion are non discriminatory when it comes to keeping older people in the workplace. Nice to see everyone in a suit and tie.
Straighten up that reference shelf! In fact, how do you have enough shelf room for the books to lean over? I couldn't get a credit card between my trades.
Joking aside, that was very interesting. It makes me want to go in there and straighten up their archives though.
That was nice!
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 09 August, 2013, 11:53:13 PM
From someone inside the publishing industry, I wouldn't be terribly concerned about circulation—profit is more important, including group profit.
Indeed. Plus, 2000AD is an IP
machine.
How many new characters has either DC or Marvel had that they could launch a title round in the last 15-20 years? Everyone's on work-for-hire and the creators are saving the 'good stuff' for Image and Dark Horse in hope of a Walking Dead or Hellboy style jackpot. From what little I've read of Marvel and DC's output in recent years, no one even seems interested in adding to the cast/rogue's gallery of the existing titles, presumably for the same reasons...
Notwithstanding the creator-owned slot in the Meg, 2000AD turns out IP in
extraordinary quantities by comparison and probably be worth running at break-even for that reason alone.
Cheers
Jim
Good vid and Tharg says prog like dog so we can finally put that one to bed. :)
Aye, a great vid - and a nice little tour of the archives. Good stuff!
So any more for the Talk on the 24th? :D
My son's comments...
"He doesn't sound like the Doctor", "Why isn't he wearing gloves, he should be wearing gloves!" and "You like those bits of film, don't you, Dad? You'd like to hold them wouldn't you, Dad? You'd WEAR GLOVES!"