2000 AD Online Forum

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=47315

Well, well, well and it was the answer to 2000 AD, which seems to be still going!

Hey our very own Montynero gets a name check! I'll have to check out your work Monty!  :)

The release of Kick Ass 2 makes this a good week to bury bad news. I hope our own Monty Nero didn't have anything scheduled for future issues.

I bought a couple of issues, mostly for Secret Service, but I baulked when it was renamed "Mark Millar's Clint".

Also, I don't like Kick Ass, so maybe it was never for me.

Sad to see any comic go, though, especially with Strip seemingly teetering on the precipice itself.

Quote from: Jimmy Baker's Assistant on 14 August, 2013, 07:09:31 PM
I bought a couple of issues, mostly for Secret Service, but I baulked when it was renamed "Mark Millar's Clint".

Also, I don't like Kick Ass, so maybe it was never for me.

Sad to see any comic go, though, especially with Strip seemingly teetering on the precipice itself.

That's the worst part. This kinda thing isn't going to help future investment in new comics.

My girlfriend went to the Doctor with CLINT RIP. He told her to find a less generously endowed lover.*







*Not all the elements in this story are strictly true.

Commiserations to all those contributors for CLINT Magazine. A bad day for the British Comic scene. Boo! :'(

Quote from: JamesC on 14 August, 2013, 07:52:36 PM
My girlfriend went to the Doctor with CLINT RIP. He told her to find a less generously endowed lover.*







*Not all the elements in this story are strictly true.

How charming.

It really is a pity, I only every bought a few issues, not my cuppa tea. But it was good value, Rex and some of the articles aside, there was a lot of reading material for the price.

Millar and Titan gave it a go and put their money and their properties out there and for it survive this long has to be marked as a success, credit to them for trying, and credit to Millar for trying something for the British newstands.

There's one thing that's guaranteed death to a high street anthology title: you have to come out with metronomic regularity. You have to be a habit for your readers. Give 'em a chance not to buy your title and a chunk of your readership will drop off. It's really not rocket science. Given that CLiNT was --what?-- 75% reprint, it's failure to hit a monthly schedule was baffling.

(Yes, I'm aware of the irony that I, who work for Strip, am saying this.)

I didn't care for much of the content or tone of CLiNT, but more comics are automatically better than fewer comics. Somebody, surely, must be able to get this right?

Cheers

Jim

QuoteGiven that CLiNT was --what?-- 75% reprint, it's failure to hit a monthly schedule was baffling.

I didn't know it was erratic, as you say baffling.

I don't regularly buy CLiNT or Strip. I sometimes feel guilty for not doing as I'd like to see more quality British comics. But I still get a buzz from 2000AD, not just reading it out of habit (though obviously partly) so I guess that's why I didn't get hooked by either...

Well that and I didn't always find it in WHS... But I don't shop in WHS anymore due to the HUGE cut they take off the comics. How can a new comic succeed with WHS n the like taking at least 50% of the cover price?

Quote from: Banners on 14 August, 2013, 10:27:44 PM

Quote from: JamesC on 14 August, 2013, 07:52:36 PM
My girlfriend went to the Doctor with CLINT RIP. He told her to find a less generously endowed lover.*







*Not all the elements in this story are strictly true.

How charming.

I felt like a real twat about 5 minutes after posting that. Sometimes I wish I could go back in time and punch myself.

Anyway, I think it's a shame that Clint has folded. I bought a few issues and enjoyed them but I think it was a bit style over content at times - and Mark Millars style can be pretty devisive.



Again, apologies for that shitty joke.

Quoteat least 50% of the cover price?

I think that's pretty much standard if you want to get distributed in ANY newsagents. I may be corrected, but I think the like of Tesco can then demand more to be displaid prominently.

Quote from: Bat King on 14 August, 2013, 11:22:56 PM
How can a new comic succeed with WHS n the like taking at least 50% of the cover price?

Dude, all comic shops take at least 50% of the comic price :) It's 60% in the US.

Sorry to see Clint go. I like buying my comics in the newsagent. Doesn't effect my work plans personally (thanks for the concern) as they were simply serialising Death Sentence before it's release (a little like Snapshot in the Meg): http://forbiddenplanet.com/?q=death+sentence (http://forbiddenplanet.com/?q=death+sentence)

This stuff is obviously harder than it looks. Warrior. Strip. Toxic. Daredevils, Overkill, Revolver, Crisis. That's the cream of comics talent, some very intelligent guys. And they all had, or have, some fantastic strips. Proves what a great job Tharg does.

Really... I thought the likes of Forbidden Planet, Travelling Man, etc took a bit less.  OK guess I've been mean to WHS (though their placement of comics still sucks)

Quote from: Montynero on 14 August, 2013, 11:35:16 PM

Dude, all comic shops take at least 50% of the comic price :) It's 60% in the US.

Sorry, BatKing, I'm talking through my hole. The distributor takes 50%, etc.

(I knew someone was taking 50% of something.)

Quote from: maryanddavid on 14 August, 2013, 11:33:14 PM
I think that's pretty much standard if you want to get distributed in ANY newsagents. I may be corrected, but I think the like of Tesco can then demand more to be displaid prominently.

Oh, yeah -- 45-60% of your cover price is the basic cost of doing business. That's what determines your cover price to start with. When I wrote my (oft-mentioned) business plan for a high street comic about ten years ago, I was advised by a well-respected distributor to allow a rock-solid minimum of £25K p/a just to ensure that Smiths, Tescos, Asda, et al, didn't display you in a disused toilet behind a door with a sign that said "beware of the leopard." You want a GOOD spot, or your own stand, or anything that might get your marketing dept excited, then you'd better be prepared to dig deep!

Cheers

Jim

Quote from: JamesC on 14 August, 2013, 11:26:37 PM

Quote from: Banners on 14 August, 2013, 10:27:44 PM

Quote from: JamesC on 14 August, 2013, 07:52:36 PM
My girlfriend went to the Doctor with CLINT RIP. He told her to find a less generously endowed lover.*







*Not all the elements in this story are strictly true.

How charming.

I felt like a real twat about 5 minutes after posting that. Sometimes I wish I could go back in time and punch myself.

Anyway, I think it's a shame that Clint has folded. I bought a few issues and enjoyed them but I think it was a bit style over content at times - and Mark Millars style can be pretty devisive.



Again, apologies for that shitty joke.

It's a shitty joke alright, James, but don't go beating yourself about it or else you'll break something and really regret it!  ;)

OK... Well I'd rather a proper comic shop got my 50+% instead of WHS...

But Tharg gets more of mine through subscription.

I impulse buy on most comics I get so the three shops in Leeds get lots of random sales to me.

I had a lot of time for Smiths till they put those bloody automated tills in and got rid of staff. So I told my local newsagent to order tooth and I buy it there instead. I'm ain't talking to no machine, man.

I'm not sure why I don't subscribe. I think I find it too easy, too predictable. After long hours at the keyboard I like the excitement of going to the shops. Racks of magazines are cool. I like looking at the all the covers, evaluating them all, checking they're worthy of purchase - searching for patterns like a cut price Ozymandias in a world without TV. I am, I can't deny, a sad lonely bastard with a semi for print media.

Newsagents for me too, the local Easons, (equivalent of WHS) to be fair stocks lots of comics, but I still like to see comics on the stands of the smaller shops.

Also, you don't get a can of Dr Pepper and a packet of Cadbury's Revels when you subscribe. That's the nub of it!

In the future all newsagents will be sophisticated boudoirs of print seduction, where you get a back rub and a comfy chair to browse the weeks offerings, before your chair glides to a check out counter staffed by helpful fellow enthusiasts proffering tea. 2000ad will sell at least 100,000 a week, and a number of intriguing anthologies of sequential sophistication will hover enticingly around the 20,000 mark as the masses eschew Heat magazine and Nuts for more thought provoking literature.

Or they'll be empty husks - rotting monuments to The Golden Age of Print. Time will tell.

Haven't bought CLiNT since that early issue with the booby-trapped-incest-rape-baby-womb in one story and the quadriplegic Superman analogue in another. Put me off a bit.

However, I did buy the latest 2000ad from RS McColl's earlier today, and also, from WH Smiths, impulse-bought a copy of the Dennis The Menace and Gnasher Megazine, which has a free gun that lights up and shoots out *space-spinners.

*Not actually called 'space-spinners', but the comic is called a 'Megazine'.

I like the comic shops... They have lots of comics...

My problem is I am bad at choosing & can't afford lots... so I end up with fewer purchases than I'd like.

Attempting to target mini series at the moment rather than ongoing...

But if a new anthology did pop up with the right mix I would consider it. Like I considered CLiNT & Strip but didn't settle on either. But I'd probably subscribe if I stuck with it a year...

yup,totally agree with all thoughts and comments presented here. so sorry to see clint bite the big one!! only been buying it for death sentance lately anyway. comic buying through specialist sites these days,as my local stores dont have a great selection of titles. buy on the strenght of covers and word of mouth. :'(

I think there's something to be said for 'done in one' comics.
When I was younger I couldn't afford to buy a comic every week (well not if I wanted to get my hands on an Action Force figure every fortnight) but I would always buy a comic if I was going on a car or train journey or to visit a relative that didn't like noisy children! As such it would usually be a Commando book or a summer special (I have very fond memories of a Marvel UK Spider Man Holiday Special).
I wonder if there's room for a comic that prints a full story each issue. The thing is this doesn't require any commitment on the part of the customer and makes things like scheduling less important. I suppose I'm thinking of something along the lines of the Extreme Edition but with new material.

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 August, 2013, 10:57:55 PM
Given that CLiNT was --what?-- 75% reprint, it's its failure to hit a monthly schedule was baffling.

I'd like to apologise for that errant apostrophe, which was the result of autocorrect on the part of my phone and a lack of attention on mine.

Cheers

Jim

Dude, no-one cares! :) I  mostly read and write these on the web browser of an I-phone. I can't even SEE the apostrophe.

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 15 August, 2013, 09:03:17 AM

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 August, 2013, 10:57:55 PM
Given that CLiNT was --what?-- 75% reprint, it's its failure to hit a monthly schedule was baffling.

I'd like to apologise for that errant apostrophe, which was the result of autocorrect on the part of my phone and a lack of attention on mine.

Cheers

Jim

I should think so, too!
Consider yourself on a warning, Campbell!

Quote from: Montynero on 15 August, 2013, 09:08:14 AM
Dude, no-one cares!

You've met this forum, right ?

anything that involved frankie boyle and bit the dust can only be a good thing?

Quote from: zombemybabynow on 15 August, 2013, 10:31:35 AM
anything that involved frankie boyle and bit the dust can only be a good thing?

No. One less comic on the stands is automatically a bad thing.

Cheers

Jim

art for art's sake?

I can't help feeling a bit of schadenfreude about this mainly due to the attitude quoted by CF. Trumping themselves as better than 2000ad when it was 40% reprint, 40% lads mag. However it is a bad thing that its failed on the newsstands. I really hope Strip can settle its boat and get back on regular release as its content is good and its heart in the right place.

I picked it up very occasionally and thought a number of stories were okay or better. However, Millar went out of his way to put off anyone vaguely 'mature' in age. I would just come away thinking, Im not supporting that offensive little git. Doubt I was the only one. Wouldn't have taken me much to get on board.

Quote from: JamesCI felt like a real twat about 5 minutes after posting that. Sometimes I wish I could go back in time and punch myself.

Fair play. I often say similar stuff in real life, with far worse consequences ;-)

With no malice.

I'm not trying to claim I really understand the comic market, but it seems to me that after reading most of the "I didn't buy it", and "not for me" remarks here and in other threads, one of the major factors for the demise of the comic is that the got its content/market wrong.

Surely if it was totally badass, we'd have all bought it. I'm not going to deny there are plenty of other factors in the mix, but the rule applies to everything 'a poor product doesn't sell'

I just want to say I enjoyed the doctor joke, don't feel bad.

As for CLiNT I think it shot itself in the foot face with the obnoxious LADS angle and of course, most of the people who might have picked it up had likely already the comics being reprinted therein or at least tried them long enough to dislike them,.

Quote from: Ghastly McNasty on 15 August, 2013, 12:56:59 PM
Surely if it was totally badass, we'd have all bought it. I'm not going to deny there are plenty of other factors in the mix, but the rule applies to everything 'a poor product doesn't sell'

I basically disagree - although Clint was poorly marketed and its content was (largely) pants sometimes "totally badass" things just don't make the dent they could or should for a whole host of other factors. I'm raking my brain for examples...

hmm. OH THAT KARL URBAN FILM FUTURE COP THING.

And also in terms of 'poor product not selling' then I'd advise you to look at the box office and the album charts, and most of television. Full of terrible products, all selling. Hell even most bestselling comics are shite. One man's poor product is another man's totally badass thing. Doesn't mean it'll sell.

So I'd go with what Jim said - as much as it's nice to piss (another) of Millar's egoprojects that's failed - frankly ANOTHER comic gone is not good news. It just isn't.

I'm disappointed the news wasn't announced in the traditional way:

"INSIDE: GREAT NEWS ABOUT YOUR FAVOURITE COMIC..."

I only ever got the first issue. It had a nonsensical Frankie Boyle strip and one about vampires by Jonathan Woss, which could have had potential if it weren't a great big wordy info-dump. There was also an article about milfs. I decided it wasn't for me, but I would also echo Jim's sentiments. More comics is better than less comics. If this had actually given Tharg a run for his money, it could have been really good for British comics. But now, investors might be wary about backing any new comic launches, if even the great Mark Millar couldn't pull it off.

QuoteAnd also in terms of 'poor product not selling' then I'd advise you to look at the box office and the album charts, and most of television. Full of terrible products, all selling. Hell even most bestselling comics are shite.

Rather a subjective response, O. Especially from someone with such an eclectic music taste ;)

A poor product is by definition 'not poor' if it has a market and a willing audience.

As for music and films, if you get enough marketing power/cash/turd polishers behind anything you can trick the public in to thinking it's worth their money. Especially when it's a single shot like a movie, or pop song.

Clint had the time to develop an audience and failed. It was found out. Don't get me wrong, it is a crying shame.

There's a whole other thread discussing that film but I thought one of the major factors it didn't do well is down to the 3D only nonsense = getting the market wrong. Someone high up made the wrong decision. It's the same for Clint, somewhere, someone got something wrong with the marketing/content.

No comic death is good. Analysis of why is essential.

Quote from: Mister Pops on 15 August, 2013, 01:58:35 PM
I only ever got the first issue. It had a nonsensical Frankie Boyle strip and one about vampires by Jonathan Woss, which could have had potential if it weren't a great big wordy info-dump.

Actually that wossy work, Turf, got a lot better in the last couple of issues (read the original American print). Vampires vs Mobsters-Aliens.

Quote from: Theblazeuk on 15 August, 2013, 12:59:38 PM
I just want to say I enjoyed the doctor joke, don't feel bad.

Yup.

Also it's a shame it's gone. I never saw it as a comic for "proper" comic fans. Those of us who wanted to read Kick-Ass or whatever were probably either picking it up as a solo title in comic shops or comixology or were waiting on a trade.

Always thought it was something to try and sell comics to lads mag buyers who wouldn't be seen dead holding a 2000AD as "comics are for kids". Kind of a way to trick them into giving them a read and seeing what they are missing. You could tell the early covers were to get people over the comics stigma

Either way it was comics content on the newsagent shelves and regardless of the joy people get out of any Mark Millar failures I'm firmly in the "any UK comic failing is a bad thing" camp. Don't think it lost 2000AD any readers, do think it may have made a few give it a shot

I think that lads mags themselves have become less popular over the last few years - there certainly seems to be less of them in Smiths.  I don't really read them myself but picked up one called 'Front' a bit ago and it seemed to be more skater/emo/goth type setup than the more conventional football/lager/birds lads mags of old.  I wouldn't be sorry to see the back of lads mags but I wonder if this change in the market also didn't help CLint?

Quote from: Recrewt on 15 August, 2013, 04:48:28 PM
I think that lads mags themselves have become less popular over the last few years - there certainly seems to be less of them in Smiths.  I don't really read them myself but picked up one called 'Front' a bit ago and it seemed to be more skater/emo/goth type setup than the more conventional football/lager/birds lads mags of old.  I wouldn't be sorry to see the back of lads mags but I wonder if this change in the market also didn't help CLint?

There was an item about lad's mags on the news the other day (following a decision by the Co-Op to stop selling them unless they are supplied in bags) in which they gave figures on Loaded's sales numbers now compared to it's heyday in the mid 90's. I think it was something like 15% of what it used to be.
Mind you, it's definitely been dumbed down and is now petty much just a soft porn mag. When it started it was quite focused on the general 'cool scene' of mid 90s London.

Quote from: JamesC on 15 August, 2013, 05:07:54 PM
There was an item about lad's mags on the news the other day (following a decision by the Co-Op to stop selling them unless they are supplied in bags) in which they gave figures on Loaded's sales numbers now compared to it's heyday in the mid 90's. I think it was something like 15% of what it used to be.

GQ did something like 775,000 an issue in 2000 and does 150-175K now.

Cheers

Jim

http://www.channel4.com/news/lads-mags-zoo-nuts-loaded-front-cover-up-co-operative

450,000 down to 20,000

Quote from: James Stacey on 15 August, 2013, 05:12:53 PM
http://www.channel4.com/news/lads-mags-zoo-nuts-loaded-front-cover-up-co-operative

450,000 down to 20,000

2000ad's recently revealed tally of 15,000 copies per week doesn't look too shabby, when set in the proper context.

Indeed!

Interesting where it says "Supermarkets account for just under half of all magazine sales, according to the Professional Publishers' Association."

Without necessarily appreciating all the costs/issues that stop this happening, I would dearly love to see 2000AD stocked in the supermarkets.  It's a real shame they do not have a presence there.

Quote from: Montynero on 15 August, 2013, 12:37:51 AM
I had a lot of time for Smiths till they put those bloody automated tills in and got rid of staff. So I told my local newsagent to order tooth and I buy it there instead. I'm ain't talking to no machine, man.

I love those machines, as I am really sick of shop assistants being rude to me.

I am also quite fond of my local newsagent, but that's basically just nostalgia talking.

Quote from: sauchie on 15 August, 2013, 05:19:52 PM2000ad's recently revealed tally of 15,000 copies per week doesn't look too shabby, when set in the proper context.

More importantly, it's also not dumbed down in a desperate attempt to shift circulation back towards the glory days. I still think 2000AD could be a touch more inclusive, but it's otherwise seemingly doing well in what's becoming an extremely hostile market. (Also, long-term, the app might turn into a stroke of genius, in that Rebellion owns it. I just wish more US writers doing comic-app round-ups would give it a mention rather than listing every Comixology reskin.)

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 15 August, 2013, 09:03:17 AM

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 August, 2013, 10:57:55 PM
Given that CLiNT was --what?-- 75% reprint, it's its failure to hit a monthly schedule was baffling.

I'd like to apologise for that errant apostrophe, which was the result of autocorrect on the part of my phone and a lack of attention on mine.

Cheers

Jim

Do the decent thing old chap.

I'd love to know what kinda circulation numbers Commando does. They still release 8 issues a month! Though I'd imagine that will only disappear when old folks don't exist.

Quote from: Montynero on 14 August, 2013, 11:35:16 PM
Sorry to see Clint go. http://forbiddenplanet.com/?q=death+sentence (http://forbiddenplanet.com/?q=death+sentence)

This stuff is obviously harder than it looks. Warrior. Strip. Toxic. Daredevils, Overkill, Revolver, Crisis. That's the cream of comics talent, some very intelligent guys. And they all had, or have, some fantastic strips. Proves what a great job Tharg does.

This^

I was put off by the 'Lad' element at first in CLINT and that title to tell the truth, after that never picked up the habit.

^

^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKI-tD0L18A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKI-tD0L18A)

Quote from: Proudhuff on 15 August, 2013, 07:18:56 PM

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 15 August, 2013, 09:03:17 AM

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 August, 2013, 10:57:55 PM
Given that CLiNT was --what?-- 75% reprint, it's its failure to hit a monthly schedule was baffling.

I'd like to apologise for that errant apostrophe, which was the result of autocorrect on the part of my phone and a lack of attention on mine.

Cheers

Jim

Do the decent thing old chap.

Agreed.  ;)

Quote from: Trout on 17 August, 2013, 05:00:12 AM

Quote from: Proudhuff on 15 August, 2013, 07:18:56 PM

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 15 August, 2013, 09:03:17 AM

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 August, 2013, 10:57:55 PM
Given that CLiNT was --what?-- 75% reprint, it's its failure to hit a monthly schedule was baffling.

I'd like to apologise for that errant apostrophe, which was the result of autocorrect on the part of my phone and a lack of attention on mine.

Cheers

Jim

Do the decent thing old chap.

Agreed.  ;)

I'll just leave this pistol on the billiards table while I pop out to discipline the butler. 

I was a little disappointed by this news at first. But having received my final subscriber's copy in the post today and seeing that there's only one full comic strip in there - the rest being previews of the new Titan Comics range coming out and a behind the scenes look at the Kick-Ass 2 movie - I'm thinking it was maybe a mercy killing.

I've heard that remaining subs are being replaced with their Batman [reprint] title so some comics are coming in it's place.

Quote from: strontium_dog_90 on 17 August, 2013, 09:30:58 PM
I was a little disappointed by this news at first. But having received my final subscriber's copy in the post today and seeing that there's only one full comic strip in there - the rest being previews of the new Titan Comics range coming out and a behind the scenes look at the Kick-Ass 2 movie - I'm thinking it was maybe a mercy killing.

^this^

I'll reluctantly admit I've been with CLiNT since issue 1, and though it's mostly been pretty awful (Kick-Ass, Superior, Secret Service) there have been some surprising gems in there (American Jesus, Death Sentence, Turf). This is all IMO, by the way!

This issue seems more like an apology than a swansong, which is what i find truly tragic. Damn shame.

Only just found out today Clint was going under, when I saw the the last one on sale in Smiths. I agree it's sad to see another newsstand comic die, but at the same time I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.

Just glancing through the final issue, it feels more than ever like the it never really lived up to it's original brief. Lest we forget, Clint was launched as a platform for promoting and encouraging new talent, but Millar(or possibly his publishers) wouldn't even commit to that on a token level, leaving numerous potential contributors out in the cold. What we got instead was the comics equivalent of stunt casting, with the likes of Ross, Carr, Boyle, et al brought as attention-grabbing "names", regardless of whether they had any aptitude for the format or not.

Of course, a more cynical critic might suggest that the "promoting new talent" angle was always bullshit and Clint was only ever intended to serve as a shop window for Millarworld properties, with other content being mostly incidental.

My problem with Clint was that it always seemed to be reprinting material that was already available in other formats.

Also it appeared to be mostly written by Millar.

Excited by new anthology comic. Bought the first few. Thought it was poor. Didn't buy any more.

I don't think that's an uncommon story.

Quote from: Dandontdare on 24 August, 2013, 12:40:40 AM
Excited by new anthology comic. Bought the first few. Thought it was poor. Didn't buy any more.

I don't think that's an uncommon story.

Certainly not THIS galaxy's greatest.

Sad yep.

But it was a crap publication, 10 years after it's time heavily influenced by the misogyny if lads mags dusted with equal ego lashings from Mark Millar and all his celebrity friends.

Quote from: Dandontdare on 24 August, 2013, 12:40:40 AM
Excited by new anthology comic. Bought the first few. Thought it was poor. Didn't buy any more.

I don't think that's an uncommon story.

Its certainly mine!

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 24 August, 2013, 08:42:22 AM

Quote from: Dandontdare on 24 August, 2013, 12:40:40 AM
Excited by new anthology comic. Bought the first few. Thought it was poor. Didn't buy any more.

I don't think that's an uncommon story.

Its certainly mine!

Ditto