2000 AD Online Forum

ok we talk of this now and then but this has got to be noted.
this month on ebay.
prog 1 no gift. = 102 sterling.
prog 2 with gift = 205 sterling
prog 3 no gift = 23.50 sterling

thats a lot of money. dont you think. prog 4 goes for around 20 sterling.
who is buying at these prices.dealers,collectors or fans?
i buy. i have 1-20 all framed up.i am am working on 1-20 part two as a gamble on future value.
what are they worth to you.
will theygo internet bubble and prices collapse or are we going to see the headline in 25 years. tooth 1,2,3 sold at sothebies for record price.

Hmmm

I don't approve of those prices, or people having duplicate copies - it stops other people owning them.
They should be there to be read, 'collectors' for value's sake should get antique vases or something & stop jacking up the prices of comics.
Seriously, the early progs weren't that good, it took a year or two before 2000AD got into its stride - these comics shouldn't cost so much.

but odd boy
as PRESIDENT of your own club you cannot own prog 1.
but its strange that of all the decent 70s era comics this one is so highly valued.the movie did not even do us any favours.
i truly wonder what makes tooth so valueable.in a non fan boy sense.

I don't want prog 1 - but I'm still after 2-4, 11-30, 71 & 113 which I don't have.

I just think you are better off buying several pieces of original artwork for that sort of money.

i completely understand as the president you are not able to own a copy of prog 1.
of course you could do the honourable thing.
accept that prog 1 is a vital part of history, and only look after a copy for the future generations. to come.
but to note prog 4 is the most scarce for some reason.it is on ebay with far less frequency then any other prog.

Hmmmm... have to agree with Oddboy, one of the reasons that prices get so high is people buying copies as an investment.

The first copy isn't really work a ?100, the space spinner isn't work an additional ?100.  

You can now buy the first prog and the following nine for ?25 in collected form (or will be able to soon) so thankfully for people who just want to read it, they will be able to.

As for the current prices, I think it's probably a sign of optimism with Rebellion and the resurgence in interest in 70's comics as a whole, combined with e-bay that gives people an inflated sense of the worth of their comics.

People will buy these comics, prices will soar and then they will realise they have a 200 quid comic no-one will buy, unless they can find someone else who is an investor and hasn't cottened onto the fact the bubble has burst.

I thought most of us had probably been here before.  I got a lot of my earlyish issues during the early nineties when 2000AD was in decline for 50p each.  Before that I paid a fiver for issues 1 and 2, when I was really obsessed.  I still need issue three and I wouldn't pay a fiver for it (?3 max), okay so I'll probably never get it, but I can live with that :) because I still see it as a 30-ish page old comic, with some slightly duff stories in.

Absolutely.
I'll be happy getting the Digital Archives rather than the originals.  I'd rather have the originals, but not if they're more than ?2.50 each (ie the equivilant of ?25 divided by 10 issues).

As a general rule, I place all issues of 2000AD at ?1.40 (the current price for a prog).

?1.40 per prog should be able to buy you anything except for the first 150 or so.

I reckon the Digital Archives will probably only be worth selling for the first 100.

Wake

I shoplifted a copy of prog 2 when I was a you hoodlum. I think I sold it for about ?20 years ago.

Gutted really.

James

I know I'm always here when this subject comes up, but I can't resist. EARLY PROGS OF 2000AD ARE A SOUND INVESTMENT, and I will list the reasons why:

(1) Comics have always been and will always be collectable. Americas Down Jones index once listed comics as the 4th best investment you could make.

(2) The big money comics are in general American (early Marvel and DC) but serious money is also being paid for early English Comics like The Beano, Dandy etc. This is because they are a part of our history and have made a mark on our culture. For this reason they will be sought out by comic collectors, investors and people reminiscing about their childhood.

(3) No other British Comic in the past 25 years has made its mark like 2000AD has. A Generation has now grown up reading it. This in itself has afforded the comic a value outside its crumpled pages, just like Spider Man 1, Superman 1 etc.

(4) Early issues of 2000AD, although hard to find, are not impossible to find but the high prices being paid for issues 1, 2 and 3 (Currently the record on ebay is ?365 for issue 2 in NM, with free gift, as far as I know) are being paid for the Near Mint copies or the ones with their free gift intact. This is the same with any collectable, you could find an antique plate worth ?1,000 but if it has a tiny chip in it, it would be worth only ?50, it's almost the same plate but it's very rare to find it without any damage. The same applies for early progs of 2000AD, maybe even more so, because, as you all know, it was printed on crap paper and deteriorated rapidly and the free gifts were destroyed.

(5) If you can now find a near mint copy of progs 1, 2 and 3 with their free gifts intact then hang on to them because market forces dictate that this will push the value of those particular progs through the roof. I maintain that it won't be long before you are paying ?1,000 each for those issues. To make my point the copy of issue 2 mentioned in the first thread sold for ?205.00 but was not in mint condition, it sold for that price because it had the free gift with it. Finding it with one or the other is difficult but finding it both in Near Mint and with free gift is near impossible.

(6) There are many other factors which can influence the price of a comic, for example a Near Mint X-Men annual number 1 or N/M X-men 94 was worth ?200 before the success of the movie but now goes for in excess of ?1,000. This price shot up in the space of a year (This is probably an example of why the Dow Jones index listed comics as the 4th best investment) The same happened to Batman & Superman comics and is now happening to Spiderman, after the success of their respective movies and a long a successful franchise. (Batman and Superman No 1 are now worth around the ?100,000 mark and Spiderman 1 is around ?10,000)

(7) I believe these same factors will push the price of 2000AD number 2 through the roof. This prog introduced the character of Judge Dredd to the UK and he has since become a national icon. Up until now this has only been due to the strength of the character and stories. True, there has been a miny franchise associated with this character and a not so successful movie. His success worldwide cannot be compared with his American rivals but this is about to change. There is a huge new Judge Dredd computer game being launched  this summer and two new Judge Dredd movies in the pipeline. Once Judge Dredd has taken off worldwide, the ?300 plus prices being paid now will seem like a drop in the ocean. Imagine being offered X-Men 94 now for ?350 in near mint, you'd snap it up. 2 years ago you could have bought it for ?200 not the ?1,000 being paid now.

(8) When this thread has come up in the past, there is always someone who complains that the prices being paid are obscene and prevents "true readers" from being able to enjoy early progs and that it is immoral to buy duplicate issues for investment purposes. This might be true in a communist regime but we live in a free country where people are free to buy what they want and pay what they see fit. I don't see anyone standing up and shouting that the ten million pounds being paid for a valuable painting is preventing the average person from owning it, after all they can just pop down to Athena and buy a print. The same goes for comics, most of the early issues of 2000AD have been reprinted in some form or other, so they are still available if you really want to go down memory lane and read those crap progs, most people don't, as they are enjoying the much higher quality of today's comics. In addition, the early issues are available in poor condition if you really just want to own and read them.

(9) The people paying high prices for near mint copies of 2000AD are preserving a piece of our history, which otherwise would just degrade and all we would have left is the Digital Archives. If you pay ?1.00 for a comic you are not going to look after it as well as a comic you paid ?300 for. These comics are being preserved and will be handed down from generation to generation. This would not happen if there were no monetary value connected to them.

(10) Finally, there are not enough of the early issues to go round for everyone who wants a copy to have one, this in itself prevents everyone from owning one. You are never going to please all of the people all the time. Finally, if you want an early prog, you can get one at a reasonable price, let the investors/collectors pay a premium for their mint copies, they are not hurting anyone. Thank you and goodnight!

Well, all I can say is dont buy Prog 1 just to read it!

Yes Tarantino, you make a good case for investment (though remember folks your homes may be at risk) but the possibility to make money is all really.  There isn't an ounce of enjoyment in your 10 point justification.

It is a free country and there is nothing to stop you investing in comics, just as there isn't anything to prevent you from investing in companies who make land mines*.  

Some value is usually neccesary to keep comics from ending up in the bin.  If ten end up in a box in someone's loft, it's pretty much the same as if they were in a bin anyway.  There is an existing copy of every issue of 2000AD, we aren't preserving stonehenge here.

Having said that I will piss my pants laughing if it all crashes and people get burned for hundreds of pounds.  People have lost businesses over investing in comics that have turned out to be worth nothing.  The comic industry itself has been damaged by these practices.

If you were really interested in comics, you could buy 150 of them for ?300 instead.  Imagine 150 comics, woo!  Or your comic, in a box, shrouded in plastic, or slabbed (ha ha) never looked at never read for fear of damaging it.  What a cold and lonely thought.

Cheers!

Paul

*Remember, selling old comics is a crime!  Wheras you can probably get a license for anti-personnel mines.

Whats the point in getting a comic if not to read it. Unless you're evil...

Seems I come on here every time tarintino appears and agree with PVS. Heck so comics are an investment?!  Who cares? I want to read them.  To make money?  I invest in property.... Sorry lads Bricks and mortar, Bricks and mortar.

Oh and if everything falls apart.  At least ill have a roof over my head??

Yer slippo    

A page of artwork certainly has more intrinsic value than a printed comic. Someone has just reserved the original artwork for Judge Dredd Luna 1. He'll be paying ?300 for 5 original pages of artwork from 1977. It may not be the first Dredd story, but I'm sure it will give him more pleasure than owning a copy of prog 2 with biotronic stickers. (not that I'm willing to sell my biotronic stickers, mind you). Ditto the other guy who has bought pages 2-4 of Billy Jones and so will soon have that story complete in original art too. (I tried to get him to sell me page 1, but he wasn't tempted by the other pages I could offer him)

Wake

Oooh I would have loved that Luna artwork but theres just no way I can afford it. Theres a couple of the individual bits that interest me but not that much. The best page (when Dredd quits and walks out) and the one I really fancied someone outbid me for on Ebay a while ago.

I think the artwork is a much better buy than getting the first few progs. Yes I see Tarantinos point when it includes the free gifts but artwork is so much better.
Just looking at the large Halo Jones and Robohunter artwork in this room tells me that.

For me it's no contest. I'll take original art over a ludicrously priced prog any day.

Landmines? You're comparing investing in comics to investing in companies who develop landmines. I'm not even going to respond to that Paulvonscott, just draw attention to it, lets keep this real. As for enjoyment, you hold a pristine copy of 2000AD number 2 in your hands, with a perfect set of stickers and I defy you not to get a hard on! Then when you see it double, treble or quadruple in price you'll cream in your pants. Now that sounds like a good night in to me! and think of the money you'll save on subscribing to Playboy.

With regards to the bottom falling out of the comic market, it's not going to happen. The reason some people have been burned previously, is because they made the mistake of investing in comics that had been mass-produced and sold by publishers as collector's items. You cannot create a collectors item. Owning 150 comics valued at ?300 is a lot harder to sell then owning one comic valued at ?500. Nobody knew how successful, Superman, Spiderman, Batman and yes Judge Dredd would be and so few people preserved those earlier comics.

If you invest in the stock market they say that the value of your investment may rise or fall. The reason why these comics have never decreased in value and have steadily increased, is because there is only a finite quantity available. When someone buys a copy of 2000AD number 2 for ?350 they are not going to sell it for less in the future. As more and more people buy copies of number 2 at similar prices they are taking them out of the market and only putting them back in the market at higher prices. There are a very limited number of copies in the condition required to command those high prices and so they will always increase and lets face it buying a comic at a few hundred pounds now, with the potential to crease ten fold in the next 5, 10 or 15 years, will not ruin anyone if it only doubles in value or even stays the same (very unlikely) just ask Mr Dow Jones!

I wouldn't turn down a prog 2 with biotronic stickers, I would think 'cool', replace my one without stickers and get rid of the old one, as I try and do with the rest of my stuff, swap it, because I really don't want to get into all that comic trading bollocks.  And it is bollocks.

I wouldn't however even pay a tenner for issue two.  For some fucking stickers, are you mad?!

And I must point out the bottom HAS fallen out of the 2000AD market once before, in the early nineties. You MAY have seen price lists up constant, but I have seen a lot of people unloading their comics for very little.  Currently the age group for 2000AD fans is in their thirties with disposable income.  Things that go up, can and indeed do, come down.

In ten years they probably won't be bothered about it any more.  How many times have you seen people taking ads saying 'getting rid of due to moving house/child/the wife says they smell'?  I reckon this phenomenon will get bigger.

Also E-bay is a false pricing system, you may not realise this, that E-Bay prices are a PREMIUM.  Wake is probably more accurate in his extimates than you think.  Do NOT take a few expensive prices to assume that is the general market.

I agree about the collectable comics surge of the early nineties being manufactured, but then, so is this really.  You and others like you are manufacturing it because when you see a copy of 2000AD prog 2, your eyes light up with dollar signs.  

Once someone starts doing this, another one starts doing it and so the craze is created.  People who aren't even interested in AD will buy them.  Eventually they rise to a point where only a nutter or a rich bod will buy them and you'll get stuck with a ?1000 comic that no-one seems to want to buy.  

Because they'll only want to buy at that price because they think the price will go up, once it levels off you are stuck with them.  It's only virtually worth ?1000, it always IS a 32 page bog paper comic.  

However, even if all of the above isn't true, I still think investing in comics isn't that great an idea.  Money could be better spent supporting good comics that are still alive rather than old comics.  If it's just about making money, then you could probably make more by putting in a bit of overtime.

Speculating in comics is worse than personally planting landmines around an orphanage and then ringing the bell for playtime, then using an atack helicopter to pick off the survivors and then agent oranging their cress growing projects.

Tarentino ; theres no need to get crude to emphasis yur point.

pvs; you forgot to mention the depleted uranium & torturing the kids kittens.

now i am wanting to complete my collection & get the early progs, as & when i can sensibly afford to.. & its NOthing to do with money & investment. Its because 2K is an obsession i have loved & enjoyed all my adult life. that weekly enjoyment of thrill power that has grown up with me, has over time turned into a whopping great collection, which i would like to make into a big fat round whole complete thing to pass on to the kids. not for money but because of all the enjoyment & coolness & maddness & comicy renegade cultural kerzap it stands for. I am very proud of my boxes of well thumbed progs, there is no monetary value can replace the attachemnt i have for them.

If i wanted to invest to get rich i'd probably lack the sense of humour to understand 2K anyway.

down with globe devouring capitalism !
yeah for a thrill fueled revolution!

It's right that old progs are valuable because there is a finite supply. But there is also a finite number of people willing to spend that much.
Say those people have all bought a copy at ?250, they are all satisfied. Then someone puts up another one for the same price. Does past price mean they can expect the same money? Nope because it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. This unlucky seller might find out it's worth a lot less.

Much like a lot of the Aaargh artwork in my opinion.

Sadly Bou, it's the investers that will stop you and me ever completing our collections.  Ah well, we can but moan.

(I tried to ignore the innacurate crudity)

I've spent less money on the my entire 2K collection then some people have paid for 1 prog.

How dumb are they?

I've got a luvverly bookcase which has shelves and shelves of 2000ADs (the bottom shelf is Megazines) and the top shelf has GNs (2K & other comic GNs).
It looks fantastic (it's even got the Johnny Alpha toy sitting on one of the shelves) and I wouldn't swap it for a "mint prog one with free gift" ever.

Yup, prices seem to be going up and up but at least theres always the thrill archives.

I have the early issues with free gifts and they're immaculate, bought them when the arse dropped out of the 2000AD market when the film came out. It happened to coincide with me leaving the army and needing to replace the Progs my old girl had binned, bought a huge pile about 200 Progs from the first 300 all with free gifts and cost me ?100.
Although they are boxed, bagged and stored in my spare room, they are all read repeatedly, couldn't imagine having them and not reading them.

Im going to have it written in to my will that when Im buried, my space spinner is in my hand, the bio-tronic stickers are stuck to me and my survival wallet is pressed out assembled and stuck in my pocket.

That'll really piss the missus off 8-)

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

"Say those people have all bought a copy at ?250, they are all satisfied. Then someone puts up another one for the same price. Does past price mean they can expect the same money? Nope because it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. This unlucky seller might find out it's worth a lot less."

Exactly Opaque - Ebay maximises prices by pitting the two highest bidders against each other - no one else is willing to pay the price, or they would have won.  There is definitely a fairly small and finite market for this stuff - unless of course you count the people forever buying multiple copies at prices that even an hardened ebayer would think twice about.  The reason the comic is less available is not cos its getting rarer, its because people are storing more copies than they need to enjoy the thing, thus (and heres the word) artificially boosting the rarity of it.

Of course if the film was a mega success and a whole bunch of new fans came along, then maybe these progs would be rare.  As it is, there are more than enough prog 2s to go round - which reminds me - I've lost your email Oddboy - contact me again with yer address and I'll send the prog to you asap

at a reasonable guess. how many prog 1,2,3 where sold and how many are estimated to be in circulation.i reckin a lot less prog 4 as there was no gift. and its the hardest to get hold off as well i note.comes up a lot less often then any other prog.

ok i have mine. 1-20
1-10 framed wonderfully in full glass with a nice engraved brass plaque rather like a piece of art, to me it is.11-20 being done next month.i also had my childhood teddy framed in glass as well.he and the comis to me have the same specail value.
they are priceless moments of time.

 i will get the digital archives to read and enjoy.
the second set which i have almost completed are my gamble. i like to think i can sell them in say 20 years and be able to do something with the money. but if i cant, then it will be no differnt from stocks and shares.except i actaully know what i am purchasing and what changing of management means to my stock where as stock and shares. who really understands what they are investing in.

There will probably have been something in the order of 100,000 to 150,000 printed at the time I imagine (does the TPO say?).  I wouldn't be surprised if there were thousands left.  2000AD could have become a registered cult within 10 years and I suspect within 5 years people were looking for back issues.

Obviously it's in peoples interests to maintain their mantra that they are rare etc. (and if they by enough of them they will be) but at a complete guess, I reckon there is a couple of thousand of the suckers out there. And that's only assuming something like 2% survived.

Don't stick em in direct sunlight DD.

Dont put them in direct sunlight.
 i know have you done that with your copy of fineds of the eastern front as well?
just a pile of dust after sun rise.

no really thanks for the tip, i did not consider that at all.

I don't own any of that stuff and if I had the spare cash to buy them I'd probably get a bunch of new graphic novels, original art or other stuff instead.

I buy comics to read and enjoy, not to collect, and it's only when I'm missing maybe one of a run that I'm at all bothered.

(Anyone got Invisibles Volume 2 Issue 1? Pleeeeease...)

Generally, I couldn't care less and would be happy to pick up the first few in digital archives sooner or later, just to read them. I started with prog 75 and, apart from reprints here and there, haven't read the first progs. I'm not heartbroken, however.

This talk of investment potential is entirely irrelevant to me.
Just buy a bigger house or something, for God's sake, then spend the rest of your cash down the pub.

- Trout

We probably should'nt keep this thread going much longer but if you estimate that there are a couple of thousand 2000AD Number 2's in existance (I think that's a little high) and they are now comanding prices as high as ?360 then the skys the limit for these progs since Spiderman number 1 is estimated to have 7,000 copies in existance and that is priced at ?10,000 at the last count, in mint condition.

How many of those 7000 are mint, then?

issue 1 car boot sale ?5 quid i was soo close but someone bought it before me.

  At the risk of keeping this thread alive well into next year, Ebay prices appear to be a bit of a bargain, relatively speaking....
No, I kid you not- the latest Comic Book Postal Auction (just before christmas) had Progs 1,2 and 3 in nm, going for a whopping ?551, $551, and ?223 respectively, which Compal claim to be the highest recorded price anywhere for these issues.
Just for the record, the same auction saw the first issue of the Beano(minus the free Whoopee Cushion) set a new record for a British comic at auction, going for ?7,565.
You can check out full results at www.compalcomics.com
They've got full results listings for all their previous auctions too, so you can check out the speed and size of hikes in value pretty easily. The last couple of years have seen a pretty steep rise for Progs One and Two.
Which should come as no surprise!

This is my point exactly, I've just been to the compalcomics webpage (and just for the record prog 2 went for ?551 not $551) and seen the three comics. The reason they went for such high amounts is that they were graded Near Mint and had clean white pages and all three had their free gifts intact. The buyer was willing to pay such a price because those comics are near impossible to find in that condition and therefore they command a premiumum. That person is not the only one who is willing to pay a similar amount, since someone/people is/are bidding against him.

This has not prevented anyone from buying other progs, which you will still be able to find at affordable prices but not such great condition.

The only thing that this will guarntee is that those three comics will be preserved by their new owner, in that condition for future generations to enjoy, whilst other tattier progs have been reduced to dust over the years.

All I can say is, thank God there are people out there willing to pay money to preserve a piece of our history.

Finally, I've said it before and I'll say it again, it won't be long before you'll see the first three progs going for ?1,000 each. The prices at the Comic Book Auction site are already making the ?360 paid on ebay for prog 2 look cheap. I'd get on the band wagon before it's to late.

"All I can say is, thank God there are people out there willing to pay money to preserve a piece of our history"

All of these people aren't doing some great favour to mankind, they are trying to make a few quid on an investment.  Which is entirely up to them, but to dress it up as something more noble is really taking the biscuit.  Apart from maybe taking centerpiece in an oxford based 2000AD Museum (do it Mr Tharg!) what use is it?

My prog may not be great, but it is in the same condition I bought it, just because it wasn't mint doesn't mean I've spread jam on it or used it as a hat.  Perhaps I should touch it with my ungloved finger to see if it will turn to dust.  All a bit hysterical.

Also, although other progs are available, this does push up the price of all progs, meaning even tatty horrible comics become more expensive for people.  And it's largely being done by people who are convinced they are going to make money out of it.  They may do, the price may never fall, but then I'm sure people thought that about Tulip Bulbs once.  

Anyone who buys a second issue is artificially increasing the prices they demand.  There is another way, but I'm not sure I want to put that thought in your head.

Such investment bubbles are created by people with dollar signs in their eyes, who convince other people about the dream and prices begin to rise above the actual demand or worth of an item before it eventually crashes with a lot of unhappy people.  This may NOT happen, there are no certainties and there aren't no surefire schemes.

I hate all this crap personally Tarantino, so I'm arguing against it not you if you see what I mean.

How's the CD frames going?  You should do ones for LP's, I keep telling ya!

Cheers

Paul

How much are you prepared to pay for that Invisibles issue Mr. FishyManMonoarch? Can't promise mind.

Good luck in your noble crusade - Of course, by asking more people to join in the collecting rush you are not only giving them great advice on a sound investment, but also pushing up demand and therefore prices - genius!

Another point - Just because another auction site (that boasts about how much it sells things for) is also overpriced doesnt make Ebay prices any less valid.  I got a good as new prog 2 for ?40 at the Memorabilia fair in Brum only a few months back (replacing my tatty one Ive had for years).  I've also seen a set of biotronic stickers for ?20 recently - in fact, they were in a sellers stock for a number of marts before they sold - dont trust the internet as a gide for prices - in fact, dont trust the internet fullstop.

erm - that should be more valid. obviously.