2000 AD Online Forum

I've just designed this logo, which I may use for my (very small) mural painting business.  It was a friend's idea, and I thought it was great - very cheeky but memorable.  However, I've since heard some horror stories of huge businesses suing the living crap out of small ones.  Does anyone know much about copyright laws?  The last thing I want is Warner Brothers on my back!  :o

 :lol:

There's a big chance they very well may sue the pants off you! It's very well done though I must say.

Unlikely they'd sue, although this could be considered passing off. You'd probably get a cease-and-desist if they did.

No, not passing off as Brian Walsh Pictures is not pretending to be Warner Bros.

Even if it is problematic - it isn't - the most you'd get is a smack on the wrist and loadsa publicity or you'd end up in the stripey hole. Remember Captain Americas (http://www.captainamericas.com)?

It's very definitely naughty. And likely to end in a cease and desist letter. Ultimately, it's not worth it - I'd go off and design something new. (If this was some random person's business where they've clearly nabbed the 2000ad logo, would the response here be different?)

There's a local taxi company called road runners, complete with the road runner on the side of all the cars, been that for an age. I say go for it!

You should be doing a logo in Illustrator.

That looks a bit contentious to be honest. What you need is a logo that subtly suggests the design of a famous brand without being overt.

Quote from: sheldipez on 18 September, 2013, 07:33:27 PM
There's a local taxi company called road runners, complete with the road runner on the side of all the cars, been that for an age. I say go for it!

Aye, I can think of two local businesses round here whose logos are parodies of big corporate identities and every ice cream van is decorated with copyrighted cartoon characters. I've heard the same stories Jayzus is presumably referring to about nursery schools being forced to whitewash murals by Disney Legal, but most other multinationals only seem to take action when someone's in the same game as they are - like the Scottish family run cafe McDonalds intimidated.

As long as you're not planning on going national and/or branching out into making major motion pictures, I think you're probably fine. Like others say, the worst you'd get is having to reprint your business cards and repaint your van.

Thanks, all!  Thinking now that it may not be worth it.  My dad told me yesterday of two cases that put me on edge: 

The first one was a Dublin woman setting up a small cafe under the name 'Lady Aga' (after the cooker) - a certain flamboyant pop star's legal team were all over her within days, and she was forced to change her name.

  Also there was a new apartment building called The Academy in a small midlands town near the one I'm from, which used a logo based on (but not identical to) the Oscars one on their advertising hoardings.  The actual Academy Awards sued them.

I have no cash to be sued for, but sadly I'm not in Rocky 3, where one can follow a statement like that by punching an influential businessman up into the air and onto the bonnet of a car.  So I don't know.  Might get two sets of business cards printed with different logos, and take it from there.

Also, I have done a tiny bit of mural work for films (well, a film), so that could be problematic.

Jared, you are a legend.

If you have to ask, you know the answer. If you are involved in films then I would stay away.

What happens after a cease and desist letter? Never mind passing off (which it could be - the test is whether or not you are creating confusion in the mind of a consumer, so it might be argued that you were trying to "pass yourself off" as WB's creative guy or being in some way connected) but more likely it is a trademark and you'd face a nice little infringement claim.

Yep your logo, if seen by Warners, could cause them to write to you with a cease and desist notice - a polite solicitors letter saying that you've copied their logo stop doing it and get another one. But the big question is are they really going to see it? Do what makes you happy, if you get bigger and start branching out maybe then it's time to have a rebrand, but until then it's not as though you are using their logo style to make millions, is it?

Quote from: LARF on 18 September, 2013, 09:32:49 PM
Yep your logo, if seen by Warners, could cause them to write to you with a cease and desist notice - a polite solicitors letter saying that you've copied their logo stop doing it and get another one. But the big question is are they really going to see it? Do what makes you happy, if you get bigger and start branching out maybe then it's time to have a rebrand, but until then it's not as though you are using their logo style to make millions, is it?

Starbucks vs Starbarks (http://theweek.com/article/index/234523/starbucks-vs-starbarks-and-5-other-petty-copyright-infringement-claims)

I seem to recall McDoner's Kebab & Fish Bar got palmed by McDonalds.

Quote from: SuperSurfer on 18 September, 2013, 10:59:26 PM
I seem to recall McDoner's Kebab & Fish Bar got palmed by McDonalds.

Ha ha! The cheek!

Quote3. Harry Potter vs. Harry Popper
Warner Bros. wasn't too happy when it discovered that a Swiss company was making "Harry Popper" condoms with packaging that featured a "pink, pimpled prophylactic" wearing round glasses and sporting a magic wand, says Xan Brooks at Britiain's The Guardian. Warner Bros. sued, saying the condom, which has been sold by the company Magic X since 2006, is "clearly a reference to the film and fictional character of Harry Potter." Magic X denies the claim.

:o Thanks, Sauchie!  Honestly, I think the nays have it; it may not be worth it.  Thanks for all your advice, folks.  It's (literally) back to the drawing board for me.

I agree with Larf - you should be more pragmatic given your relatively small size.

We were asked to use the Pimm's logo on a promotion for a well known national company, which I was a bit nervous about doing. So I called the Pimm's brand owner Diageo, spoke to lots of lovely secretaries but despite leaving lots of messages on answerphones, could not speak to anyone appropriate. I sent speculative emails, but none were replied to.

So, as they obvioulsy weren't bothered, we went ahead and used the Pimm's logo. This was a couple of months ago - and neither I nor the client have had any trouble since.

That said, you should get the logo done properly as a vector (and please change the font on the banner!), but the basic idea is good fun and will create a 'smile in the mind', which is a good thing.

Not much help to you Jayzus, but I used to love the shopping bags that south Dublin bargain shop Harold's made: a near-perfect copy of a gold-on-green Harrod's bag, with just one letter changed and moved.

If you go to Asia, especially south-east Asia on your holiday your eyes would probably pop out of your skull when you see the amount of copyright infringements there are! I bought a nice VERSAGE shirt a while back on my hols, I also popped into the local TESCOO.  :lol:

Quote from: TordelBack on 19 September, 2013, 09:45:22 AM
...I used to love the shopping bags that south Dublin bargain shop Harold's made: a near-perfect copy of a gold-on-green Harrod's bag, with just one letter changed and moved.

Nice one. Reminds me of Sellfridges.

Quote from: Mabs on 19 September, 2013, 10:34:26 AM
If you go to Asia, especially south-east Asia on your holiday your eyes would probably pop out of your skull when you see the amount of copyright infringements there are!

Sometimes they don't even bother changing a single letter. When I was the customer service manager for $NATIONALCHAINOFOPTICIANS I'd routinely take a call a week from someone who'd been to one of 'our' stores in the Middle East or Asia and have to explain to them that although it may have looked exactly like one of our stores, it wasn't...

Cheers!

Jim

And there have been pseudo Applestores in China – where even the staff thought they were working for Apple.

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 19 September, 2013, 12:39:22 PM

Quote from: Mabs on 19 September, 2013, 10:34:26 AM
If you go to Asia, especially south-east Asia on your holiday your eyes would probably pop out of your skull when you see the amount of copyright infringements there are!

Sometimes they don't even bother changing a single letter. When I was the customer service manager for $NATIONALCHAINOFOPTICIANS I'd routinely take a call a week from someone who'd been to one of 'our' stores in the Middle East or Asia and have to explain to them that although it may have looked exactly like one of our stores, it wasn't...

Cheers!

Jim

That must've come as quite a shock to the customers in question! I also bumped into a bloke who worked in a 'Sony' store, when in fact it had nothing to do with the actual Sony. But when I pointed it out, the guy was adament that he was right and I was wrong!  ::)

Pretty much like what Supersurfer has outlined above really.

JayzusB.Christ – if anyone from Warner Bros calls you by mistake asking for an update on the Porky Pig cartoon just ask for the rest of the fees then close up shop and scarper.

Th-th-th-that's all folks!

Quote from: Mabs on 19 September, 2013, 03:22:04 PM
That must've come as quite a shock to the customers in question!

I'll be honest, I was always utterly baffled when people rang up and recounted some tale of woe with one of these fake stores — you're on holiday for a week in Dubai... who thinks "I know — today, I'll get my eyes tested and buy some spectacles" ...?

Cheers

Jim

Quote from: SuperSurfer on 19 September, 2013, 12:26:25 PM

That's brilliant! The name definitely preceded the actual business venture there, didn't it? The genius behind that has missed his vocation in life - he should be writing gags for I'm Sorry, I Haven't A Clue.

(@Jim) you never know with some people!  :D

I actually heard that 'sellfridges' gag on radio 4 recently - I think that may be a photoshopped picture - the text looks a little clean like it's been added over.

I've got a soft spot for dreadful puns in shop names - http://www.vh1.com/celebrity/2008-06-06/50-best-pun-stores/ (http://www.vh1.com/celebrity/2008-06-06/50-best-pun-stores/)

Quote from: Dandontdare on 19 September, 2013, 05:34:07 PM
I've got a soft spot for dreadful puns in shop names ...

If only there was a 2000AD strip that featured them...

Quote from: Dandontdare on 19 September, 2013, 05:34:07 PM
I actually heard that 'sellfridges' gag on radio 4 recently - I think that may be a photoshopped picture - the text looks a little clean like it's been added over.

It's real. There are other photos online and it's also on Google Maps. (https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?expflags=enable_star_based_justifications:true&ie=UTF8&cid=14629194854456277806&q=Sellfridges&iwloc=A&gl=GB&hl=en)

Quote from: Dandontdare on 19 September, 2013, 05:34:07 PM
I actually heard that 'sellfridges' gag on radio 4 recently - I think that may be a photoshopped picture - the text looks a little clean like it's been added over.

I know what you mean but it is on Google maps streetview:
http://goo.gl/maps/Qwc5Z

Oops. Didn't see previous post.

I take it all back! You can't keep a good idea down.

Quote from: TordelBack on 19 September, 2013, 06:57:29 PM

Quote from: Dandontdare on 19 September, 2013, 05:34:07 PM
I've got a soft spot for dreadful puns in shop names ...

If only there was a 2000AD strip that featured them...

Dan Abnett is my God when it comes to names.

Quote from: Dandontdare on 19 September, 2013, 05:34:07 PM
I've got a soft spot for dreadful puns in shop names - http://www.vh1.com/celebrity/2008-06-06/50-best-pun-stores/ (http://www.vh1.com/celebrity/2008-06-06/50-best-pun-stores/)

The real number one punning shop name of all time (or the Christian era, at least) being Cheeses of Nazareth.  Dick Liqor sounds like a tasty treat and reminds me of the sign seen in the windows of houses of ill repute in the the old West - liqor in front, poker in the rear (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhdDlkrXeww).

Have to honest its not as good as Sellfridges but its always been a favourite of mine. A chippie in sweet, sweet Sheffield.



Given its a regular of Sheff United fans its strangely apt too.

Hmmmm.  I think what I'll do is, use the legally-shady logo as an initial gimmick on my first batch of business cards.  I'm still in the stages of having to advertise my work, so hopefully it'll make the cards stand out from the many that get put in wallets / drawers etc and forgotten about.  If it's only on the business cards, it won't really be in public view.

I'll design a different logo for my website, and make some new business cards with this new, non-dodgy logo, in the hope that business expands and I no longer need the gimmick.

Banners, thanks for the advice re. design - I've never used Illustrator and knowledge of fonts is not my area (I used Comic Sans on a mural a couple of years ago, I'm afraid) but I have a few graphic designer friends who hopefully will help me out.

Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 20 September, 2013, 07:32:23 PM...I used Comic Sans on a mural a couple of years ago...

Irony is your best defence.  If pushed, allude to Tracy Emin's unmade bed.

QuoteDan Abnett is my God when it comes to names.

I think you missed Tordel's irony there...

QuoteIf pushed, allude to Tracy Emin's unmade bed.

...because he wields it like a master.