Selling my copy of Zenith, it's number 371. Read once (very carefully!), I'm going to put it up on ebay but wanted to see if anyone here was interested first!
Zenith looks good but is a bit emperors clothes.
Mostly shit but everyone says its great because they don't want to be seen as not in with the in crowd.
I say it's great because I really like it! :D
I loved Zenith when it was first printed and I still love it now.
It's one of the best things that's ever appeared in 2000AD in my view.
Horses for courses. ;)
BOOM and Logan comes in with a belter :lol:
Then again, I thought it was meh!
Never read it when it was first printed seeing as I was only four...
Quote from: Trout on 04 January, 2014, 11:55:12 PM
I say it's great because I really like it! :D
I used to think that too but it turns out that, when I was twelve and only knew one other person who read the comic, peer pressure forced me into pretending I liked it and I've been living a lie ever since.
So, the same reason I smoke, steal cars and take heroin really.
Quote from: The Cosh on 05 January, 2014, 09:30:20 AM
it turns out that, when I was twelve and only knew one other person who read the comic, peer pressure forced me into pretending I liked it and I've been living a lie ever since.
I
thought I liked it because all the stuff concerning the occult roots of Nazism, sixties counterculture, pop music and politics were
exactly the kind of things I was interested in at that time, but now I see I was mistaken.
To be fair to
Logan, not all of it's gold and I lost patience with the strip halfway through Phase Three. It only seemed to appear in the comic for three or four week runs with
months in-between, and the central joke of it - an ironic British take of those
CRISIS ON INFINITE GAUNTLETS superhero continuity housekeeping exercise - was something I didn't get because I wasn't even aware of the stories it was deconstructing or the Britcom characters it was repurposing.
Phase Four seems to generally be considered a half-hearted conclusion but I really enjoyed it, possibly for the same reason I didn't enjoy Phase Three so much - I hadn't, at that point, read the other stories from where Morrison cribbed the stuff I enjoyed, such as the backwards-aging Peyne and the trapped-in-a-bottle misdirection which thwarts the Lloigor. It also benefitted from being one of the better stories (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=prog&page=profiles) in a generally iffy era of the comic; I placed it on same side of the quality threshold as Button Man, rather than Friday Rogue Trooper or Kola Commandos.
I don't think I'd realised how well Morrison was weaving the larger tale until that point either; I'd read the individual stories as essentially discrete narratives like Strontium Dog or Robohunter, where characters and organisations reappear and interact over different stories, but rarely with the cumulative effect seen in Zenith. His casual fúck with a clone version of Ruby in Phase Two just seemed like a sick wee joke to me at the time; Phase Four made me go back and understand the conclusion of Phase One as a dad beating up his (much older) son and blew my tiny mind.
Quote from: W. R. Logan on 04 January, 2014, 10:43:20 PM
Mostly shit but everyone says its great because they don't want to be seen as not in with the in crowd.
I'm always staggered by the arrogance of this type of statement. Rightly or wrongly it comes across as.
"I don't like it but most people do. I'm so infatuated with my own opinion that I can't image anyone else genuinely having a different one. Therefore I'll prescribe a motivation to the majority who do like it that fits their reported opinion in line with mine."
The irony being it leaves the underlying suggestion that the person making it desires their opinion to be in line with the majority, but as the evidence suggests otherwise they change the facts in front of them so everyone else conforms and hence they are in line with the majority.
Not liking it is absolutely fine and dandy, just have the courtesy to respect that the majority disagree with you.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 05 January, 2014, 11:48:59 AM
Quote from: W. R. Logan on 04 January, 2014, 10:43:20 PM
Mostly shit but everyone says its great because they don't want to be seen as not in with the in crowd.
I'm always staggered by the arrogance of this type of statement. Rightly or wrongly it comes across as.
"I don't like it but most people do. I'm so infatuated with my own opinion that I can't image anyone else genuinely having a different one. Therefore I'll prescribe a motivation to the majority who do like it that fits their reported opinion in line with mine."
The irony being it leaves the underlying suggestion that the person making it desires their opinion to be in line with the majority, but as the evidence suggests otherwise they change the facts in front of them so everyone else conforms and hence they are in line with the majority.
Not liking it is absolutely fine and dandy, just have the courtesy to respect that the majority disagree with you.
Indeed. I love Zentih. I did not know any other comic readers until I get the interweb. I have commented before that I did not know I was supposed the dislike Carver Hale until I started posting here...
I think the guy was looking to sell his copy of the book and not start a debate about it's pros and cons..... :-\
That said, I've been thoroughly entertained by the content of this thread.
So keep up the good work!
I enjoyed Carver Hale; am I not allowed to? :(
Quote from: Call-Me-Kenneth on 05 January, 2014, 12:31:16 PM
I think the guy was looking to sell his copy of the book and not start a debate about it's pros and cons..... :-\
That said, I've been thoroughly entertained by the content of this thread.
So keep up the good work!
yeah does anyone actually want it?
even zenith haters will appreciate the design!
Quote from: sauchie on 05 January, 2014, 10:42:28 AM
(Zenith's) casual fúck with a clone version of Ruby in Phase Two just seemed like a sick wee joke to me at the time; Phase Four made me go back and understand the conclusion of Phase One as a dad beating up his (much older) son and blew my tiny mind.
I undersold the circularity of that, didn't I? Robert spews when [spoiler]he finds out one of the master race nubiles with whom he copulated was a clone version of his mum, and its never made clear whether it was her or the cloned Ruby Fox who gave birth to Iok Sotot. So it's perfectly possible that the end of Phase One is a dad beating up his younger brother AND his son, who is still of course much older than he is[/spoiler].
My brain feels like Fay Dunaway (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IBZocFkXGY) now.
Quote from: GeckoDroog on 05 January, 2014, 01:44:59 PM
Quote from: Call-Me-Kenneth on 05 January, 2014, 12:31:16 PM
I think the guy was looking to sell his copy of the book and not start a debate about it's pros and cons..... :-\
yeah does anyone actually want it?
Sorry, man, but we told you this would happen (http://shop.2000adonline.com/products/zenith_phase_2).
yeah but that one looks crap...haha
aside from the whole four separate volumes, not out til December yadda yadda