http://kotaku.com/judge-dredd-is-the-jerk-cop-future-los-angeles-needs-1506875960/@AnnaleeNewitz (http://kotaku.com/judge-dredd-is-the-jerk-cop-future-los-angeles-needs-1506875960/@AnnaleeNewitz)
Quote from: von Boom on 27 January, 2014, 08:50:01 PM
http://kotaku.com/judge-dredd-is-the-jerk-cop-future-los-angeles-needs-1506875960/@AnnaleeNewitz (http://kotaku.com/judge-dredd-is-the-jerk-cop-future-los-angeles-needs-1506875960/@AnnaleeNewitz)
That explains a lot :(
Quote from: Proudhuff on 28 January, 2014, 11:29:30 AM
That explains a lot :(
I know you're not enjoying Wolk's story, but I don't see what he says in that interview that's in any way off-base or a mis-reading of the character...
Cheers
Jim
my specs maybe coloured here not rose tinted, but:
Douglas Wolk: He (Dredd) is a dick! One thing I find fascinating about him is that on a small scale, he is heroic: he protects those who need protecting, he does the things somebody has to do but that most people aren't willing to do, he's unutterably brave and uninterested in personal gain, etc.
doesn't do it for me.
Quote from: Proudhuff on 28 January, 2014, 02:05:20 PM
my specs maybe coloured here not rose tinted, but:
Douglas Wolk: He (Dredd) is a dick! One thing I find fascinating about him is that on a small scale, he is heroic: he protects those who need protecting, he does the things somebody has to do but that most people aren't willing to do, he's unutterably brave and uninterested in personal gain, etc.
doesn't do it for me.
I would say its fine for Wagner to say this as he has a grasp on a character he has written for many years but for a first time JD scribe (regardless of his reviewing every JD collected story available) to state this is just a tad disrespectful to people who are going to part with hard earned cash to read your story.
I can only assume that you're both reading that paragraph substantially differently from me, or have been reading a completely different comic for the last 30 years.
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 28 January, 2014, 02:36:32 PM
I can only assume that you're both reading that paragraph substantially differently from me, or have been reading a completely different comic for the last 30 years.
I've not been reading for that long but was starting to wonder if I had him wrong. That description is exactly what I thought of Dredd :(
Why should the length of time someone's been writing Dredd enter into it. Be it a first time writer or John Wagner they need to have a grip on the character, what he is and what drives him. Calling Dredd a dick is insulting no one, well no one real (and I imagine the fictional Dredd has broad enough shoulders to handle it!) its describing the character.
You might disagree with that description but how long a writer has been writing the character is hardly a factor in that?
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 28 January, 2014, 03:03:35 PM
Why should the length of time someone's been writing Dredd enter into it. Be it a first time writer or John Wagner they need to have a grip on the character, what he is and what drives him. Calling Dredd a dick is insulting no one, well no one real (and I imagine the fictional Dredd has broad enough shoulders to handle it!) its describing the character.
You might disagree with that description but how long a writer has been writing the character is hardly a factor in that?
I think it does make a difference as a first time writer is going to have to be pretty lucky to get right first time not having had the benefit of experience or settling in time. I know its not exactly the same but most artists bemoan their first time strips for this exact reason.
I have always thought of Dredd as authoritarian, cold, a stickler for the rules and harsh bordering on facist but a dick? Not really...I just think its the wrong choice of word, hes not a character in a high school teen comedy.
I have actually said the words "what a dick" out loud when reading both the Meg and Prog, there's no other way to describe him!
Yeah, I don't think Douglas was too far off the mark with what he said. What I find worse is when they just see him as a hard b*stard and you lose the whole 'protecting the innocent' part of his character.
That said, I have not read MC2 yet but have heard there is some uncharacteristic collateral damage in there (no-one mention Judgement Day :-X).
There's a thread post I made that I cant find right now where I give some examples of "what a dick!" moments, the one that comes straight to mind in the prog where he comes down hard on some scavengers (I believe he called them looters) who're only trying to survive post-Day of Chaos. There's upholding the peace then there's being a dick. I've found him a hard character to like, his universe has been massively more appealing than the character itself, reading his early years hasn't changed my opinion of the git :)
Quote from: sheldipez on 28 January, 2014, 03:51:54 PM
I've found him a hard character to like...
You're not
supposed to like him. You've
never been supposed to like him. It's part of what (I think) American audiences find difficult to grasp about the character.
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 28 January, 2014, 03:55:10 PM
Quote from: sheldipez on 28 January, 2014, 03:51:54 PM
I've found him a hard character to like...
You're not supposed to like him. You've never been supposed to like him. It's part of what (I think) American audiences find difficult to grasp about the character.
That's why I struggle with some of the Dredd-centred stories, I love the hell out of the stories when they're focused on particular events or Dredd is reacting to the bigger picture (or where he's playing detective) but when they're focused more on him I struggle to get through to the end. Dredd has often been my least favorite thing in the prog cos I've been willing him to stay down when he's (way too often) shot, the knife to the throat incident had me laughing out loud for the wrong reasons.
If that makes any sense whatsoever.
Well there's the slipper nature of language (oh the irony of me saying this!) you are of course suppose to like him as a 'character' he's a bloody brilliant character, you are not supposed to like him as a 'person' all be it a fictional one. You should of course respect aspects of him, get frustrated at the fact that such an admirable person in many respects is working for such a terrible regime. You can empathise with the glacial change the man goes through. But at the end of the day if I met him my first reaction would likely be
"What a dick"...
... well no of course my first reaction would be all consuming fear and dread (no pun intended), a desire to crawl into the ground and probably a strange scene of guilt even though I was doing nothing wrong. Then as soon as he'd passed on (hopefully) it'd be 'What a dick*!'
* You can of course substitute for knob, pillock, terrifying monster, or another such word of phrase of your choice.
Quote from: sheldipez on 28 January, 2014, 04:03:45 PM
That's why I struggle with some of the Dredd-centred stories, I love the hell out of the stories when they're focused on particular events or Dredd is reacting to the bigger picture (or where he's playing detective) but when they're focused more on him I struggle to get through to the end. Dredd has often been my least favorite thing in the prog cos I've been willing him to stay down when he's (way too often) shot, the knife to the throat incident had me laughing out loud for the wrong reasons.
If that makes any sense whatsoever.
So out of curiousity who do you like in the prog? I was always a massive fan of Johnny Alpha who was always more of a blatant hero in the past, despite killing people for a living, but his change in demeanor since being resurrected (!) has really made me not enjoy the latest chapter of Strontium Dog. You could argue he has become more Dredd-like!
Also one mans scavanger is another mans looter :D
Quote from: judgerufian on 28 January, 2014, 03:16:47 PM
I.
I have always thought of Dredd as authoritarian, cold, a stickler for the rules and harsh bordering on facist but a dick? Not really...I just think its the wrong choice of word, hes not a character in a high school teen comedy.
This ^
I suppose its about what you think 'a Dick' is, first one to say nine inches is barred :D
Dredd is a highly unlikeable character who doesn't (until recently) care about the innocents, after all he's mass murdered an entire city of them and aften banged up people who I describe as victims. He certainly never cared about them back when this story is set, this is even before his tighter boots right? He cared about the law and applying it with no shades of grey.
For me what has been of interest since the Mutie laws etc, has been his questioning of his beliefs, and now he possibly believes he brought the Day of Chaos down on his city, the questions build. of course none of that is about
this Dredd.
Quote from: Proudhuff on 28 January, 2014, 04:28:58 PM
I suppose its about what you think 'a Dick' is, first one to say nine inches is barred :D
:lol:
Quote from: Proudhuff on 28 January, 2014, 04:28:58 PM
Dredd is a highly unlikeable character who doesn't (until recently) care about the innocents, after all he's mass murdered an entire city of them and aften banged up people who I describe as victims. He certainly never cared about them back when this story is set, this is even before his tighter boots right? He cared about the law and applying it with no shades of grey.
For me what has been of interest since the Mutie laws etc, has been his questioning of his beliefs, and now he possibly believes he brought the Day of Chaos down on his city, the questions build. of course none of that is about this Dredd.
Funnily enough, if the interviewee would have described him as a c*nt rather than a dick, I probably wouldnt have commented in the first place!
Dick, [spoiler]cunt[/spoiler], arsehole; you can choose whichever scatological metaphor best suits your own inclinations, but they all definitely apply to Dredd. Goodman's in the chair in IDW/Wolk Dredd, isn't he? The IPC Dredd of that period needed an ethnic stereotype landlady and a comedy robot to give him anything to talk about other than how necessary the rigid application of the law is, and the portrayal of Dredd and Rico as bloodthirsty wee zealots in Origins doesn't make me think that was a passing phase.
Forget Lopez, EM1, MC2, deliberately fucking up the mechanismo programme, and Chaos Day - I've basically never forgiven Dredd for sending Uncle Ump into solitary exile just for inventing the most delicious taste ever.
He seems to have a pretty firm grasp on the character, TBH.
We might quibble over the precise definition of 'dick' (I'd see it as meaning someone who takes satisfaction in deliberately making life unpleasant for others through numerous often trivial acts), but from both interview and comic I think Douglas has a very sound grasp on the character: Joe has a lot of good qualities, but he really isn't very nice, and he was even worse back in the late 21st C.
I'd absolute hate the guy if I met him, despite his bravery, selflessness and occasional acts of kindness. But I love reading about him.
fair enough, it is a bit much to judge the man on one story and (IMHO) a leading question, perhaps i was a little hastie, i withdraw the remark