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I have always wanted to see a special edition of the Judge Dredd film that contained the deleted scenes - I have seen photos of them - the clone fight springs to mind.

Does anyone know what scenes were actually filmed and cut? I assume they were cut to avoid the NC 17 rating, is this correct?

The actual headbutt?

Quote from: Skullmo on 07 April, 2014, 03:02:48 PM
What was missing from the Judge Dredd film (1995)

Judge Dredd?

Quote from: Skullmo on 07 April, 2014, 03:02:48 PM
Does anyone know what scenes were actually filmed and cut?

I've never seen an exhaustive list... I remember reading an interview with producer Beau Marks in the Independent while Judge Dredd was shooting (he was moaning about how uncooperative UK authorities were compared to shooting in the US) and it was specifically mentioned that the interview took place during a break in shooting a scene at Kew Gardens and I'm damn sure I didn't see anything fitting that description in the final cut of the movie.

I remember Kev Walker saying that the released cut of the movie excised all the conspiracy plot and just left a sequence of action set pieces that made it feel like "a bloody video game."

And, yes, the film isn't helped by the excision of the climactic clone fight, particularly given that they leave in Rico's line setting it up...!

Cheers

Jim

Plot?

Helmet?

a comedy sidekick ?

QuoteAnd, yes, the film isn't helped by the excision of the climactic clone fight, particularly given that they leave in Rico's line setting it up...!

One of the many things wrong with Judge Dredd is that it ends on such an anticlimax. There's so little action at the end - a lame punch-up in the Statue of Liberty and it's all over.

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 07 April, 2014, 03:12:59 PM
And, yes, the film isn't helped by the excision of the climactic clone fight, particularly given that they leave in Rico's line setting it up...!

It's worse than that, isn't it?  I haven't seen it for a while but don't the clones actually wake up, one of them turns towards Dredd and Fergie and then...

...Dredd is running up some stairs towards a confrontation with Rico.

Of course, I could be wrong.  There's a scene towards the end of Excalibur that I remember particularly well, you know the one, where Arthur and his knights ride across a barren field, only for the land to come to life once again in their wake, flowers coming into bloom and everything.

You know what?  It's not in the film.  That's particularly annoying as that was my favourite bit...

Shite, sounds excellent. I like Excalibur, me.

I recently watched my favourite film, the Wicker Man, with the missing bits pasted back in.  Most of it was fine, though there was really no need for [spoiler]Christopher Lee's silly chat with a snail.[/spoiler]

I couldn't even begin to comment on what was missing from the 95 Dredd film.  I wouldn't have minded seeing a few more bits cut out; or even all of them.

Goaty graffiti.  The marks of quality.

Quote from: Lobo Baggins on 07 April, 2014, 04:07:56 PMThere's a scene towards the end of Excalibur that I remember particularly well, you know the one, where Arthur and his knights ride across a barren field, only for the land to come to life once again in their wake, flowers coming into bloom and everything.

Hang about though, it's in some film because I've seen it too.  Would have sworn it was Excalibur meself.

Quote from: TordelBack on 07 April, 2014, 07:02:29 PM
Hang about though, it's in some film because I've seen it too.  Would have sworn it was Excalibur meself.

It is. It's here at around the 2 minute mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1MuvvS_xSw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1MuvvS_xSw)

Quote from: Greg M. on 07 April, 2014, 07:08:23 PM

Quote from: TordelBack on 07 April, 2014, 07:02:29 PM
Hang about though, it's in some film because I've seen it too.  Would have sworn it was Excalibur meself.

It is. It's here at around the 2 minute mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1MuvvS_xSw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1MuvvS_xSw)

That's truly lovely, that is.  Did they really cut that from the finished version?
My mate works for John Boorman the odd time; apparently he's a sound guy but a fucking maniac.  Loves an afternoon drop of whiskey followed by a high speed drive into town (with my friend shitting himself in the passenger seat).  ALLEGEDLY.

Quote from: TordelBack on 07 April, 2014, 07:02:29 PM
Goaty graffiti.  The marks of quality.

Yep it was that or Hammerstein the ABC robot, tough choice.

Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 07 April, 2014, 08:28:45 PM
My mate works for John Boorman the odd time; apparently he's a sound guy but a fucking maniac.  Loves an afternoon drop of whiskey followed by a high speed drive into town (with my friend shitting himself in the passenger seat).  ALLEGEDLY.

I think John Boorman is what they used to call a character. Did you see the recent documentary his daughter made (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoPJTvHvRZ0) for the BBC about him? God bless the coefficient your nation has devised to describe the relationship between artistry and income tax.

Haven't seen it - but I will now! I wasn't too impressed by his glorification of that nasty little shit-heel Martin  'the General' Cahill, but I forgot he did Deliverance - and fucking ZARDOZ! - so fair play to him.

Now normally we shouldn't drag things off topic but well when we're talking '95 Dredd it ain't such a crime.

Anyway this chat has led me to discover there's a directors cut of Excalibur - should have known. Alongside 'Bridge too far' (is there a directors cut of that? Will check in a sec) one of the great films of my youth that I think didn't get the praise it deserves.

Yep, sorry for continuing the off topic, but after meeting Terry English on Sunday, I think I'll have to watch Excalibur as well.

 What was missing from Judge Dredd: Spaceghost...'Judge Dredd'      :lol: :lol:

What should be missing is Sylvester 'bastard' Stallone and Rob 'fucking' Schneider.





V

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 07 April, 2014, 09:20:50 PMNow normally we shouldn't drag things off topic but well when we're talking '95 Dredd it ain't such a crime.

To be fair, even if this one goes off topic badly, there'll be another Dredd '95 thread along soon enough.

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 07 April, 2014, 09:20:50 PM
Now normally we shouldn't drag things off topic but well when we're talking '95 Dredd it ain't such a crime.

Anyway this chat has led me to discover there's a directors cut of Excalibur - should have known. Alongside 'Bridge too far' (is there a directors cut of that? Will check in a sec) one of the great films of my youth that I think didn't get the praise it deserves.

I'd love a longer cut of "A Bridge Too Far" (even though the critics at the time railed against it as being "An Hour Too Long"). The whole Arnhem thing is fascinating - I'd love to see more of the individual moments of heroism (which got cut at script stage so they could concentrate on "the cavalry coming to the rescue but oh, too late!".

Quote from: vzzbux on 07 April, 2014, 10:59:36 PM
What should be missing is Sylvester 'bastard' Stallone and Rob 'fucking' Schneider.

I'm no fan of that film...but I wasn't reading the progs then either when I saw it...and I've since read a bunch. And (...ok, now ducking for cover) I can see how people, bean counters, who don't know the earlier work could get the impression it should be a certain way, a bit of a mess, considering Dredd itself seemed to go through a period of being not-so-tremendous....
Thankfully it got over that odd time and is as good as ever.

Quote from: Lobo Baggins on 07 April, 2014, 04:07:56 PMThere's a scene towards the end of Excalibur that I remember particularly well, you know the one, where Arthur and his knights ride across a barren field, only for the land to come to life once again in their wake, flowers coming into bloom and everything.

You know what?  It's not in the film.  That's particularly annoying as that was my favourite bit...

It's in every version I've seen (BBC broadcast, UK VHS, US and UK DVDs).

According to the always unimpeachably correct Wikipedia: "The film was originally put into theatrical release in 1981 as an R-rated film in the USA. Later there was an announcement of a PG-rated version, but it was not widely released. The original R-rated cut is 140 minutes, with more graphic sex and violence. Most home video releases are the R-rated version, but commercial TV channels may use the PG cut, which is 119 minutes." So maybe it was trimmed from the PG cut?

One story about something left in Judge Dredd: the shoulder eagle, which apparently Stallone insisted on at the last minute. They only had enough money to make one, which is why you only ever see one be-eagled Judge in any scene. (This story may well be apocryphal, but I really can't be bothered to rewatch it to check.)

The Angel Gang scenes always feel a bit abrupt, but I think that might have been down to how much they could shoot - the studio apparently not being keen on this sequence - rather than stuff being chopped from the finished cut.

Quote from: The Corinthian on 08 April, 2014, 06:36:42 PM
One story about something left in Judge Dredd: the shoulder eagle, which apparently Stallone insisted on at the last minute. They only had enough money to make one, which is why you only ever see one be-eagled Judge in any scene. (This story may well be apocryphal, but I really can't be bothered to rewatch it to check.)

I'm pretty sure that's correct, even in the final crowd scene of hundreds of judges gathered on the steps of Lady Liberty. The first time you notice the eagle swapping, it's hilarious; by the time you get to the scene where Stallone has to mug a guy to get the eagle back, it's pathetic. I hadn't heard that the eagle was a last minute innovation before, but that makes sense.

Quote from: The Corinthian on 08 April, 2014, 06:36:42 PM
One story about something left in Judge Dredd: the shoulder eagle, which apparently Stallone insisted on at the last minute. They only had enough money to make one, which is why you only ever see one be-eagled Judge in any scene. (This story may well be apocryphal, but I really can't be bothered to rewatch it to check.)

I understood it to be a conscious decision not to give the other judges shoulder eagles because it meant that Dredd (ie: Stallone) looked like 'just' another judge*... I assume they thought they could handwave it away with some bollocks about rank if they ever needed to, but were left with the astonishingly convenient way that the first judge that Dredd mugs for a replacement uniform just happens to be the same singular rank as Dredd himself...

Cheers

Jim



*Which, of course, he is. In terms of the story's internal-world-logic, obviously.

Quote from: The Corinthian on 08 April, 2014, 06:36:42 PM

Quote from: Lobo Baggins on 07 April, 2014, 04:07:56 PMThere's a scene towards the end of Excalibur that I remember particularly well, you know the one, where Arthur and his knights ride across a barren field, only for the land to come to life once again in their wake, flowers coming into bloom and everything.

You know what?  It's not in the film.  That's particularly annoying as that was my favourite bit...

It's in every version I've seen (BBC broadcast, UK VHS, US and UK DVDs).

According to the always unimpeachably correct Wikipedia: "The film was originally put into theatrical release in 1981 as an R-rated film in the USA. Later there was an announcement of a PG-rated version, but it was not widely released. The original R-rated cut is 140 minutes, with more graphic sex and violence. Most home video releases are the R-rated version, but commercial TV channels may use the PG cut, which is 119 minutes." So maybe it was trimmed from the PG cut?

Hmm, I've checked my DVD and it's NOT on it - however, there's a slight audio blip after Arthur orders Kay into battle and then they're all riding through the apple trees.  So, either I've got a faulty disc that just happens to cut out the BEST BLOODY BIT or it's some sort of weird TV version cut for time...

I also note that although you were all able to check the Excalibur scene within a matter of minutes, no one as yet has checked my memories of the Stallone film... does anyone even own it?

There was a still printed in The Meg around the time of the film's release that showed Stallone taking out a clone that didn't appear in the released film.

Quote from: Lobo Baggins on 08 April, 2014, 07:41:13 PM
no one as yet has checked my memories of the Stallone film... does anyone even own it?

Just fast-forwarded through it... as far as I can tell, Dredd's the only judge we see with a shoulder eagle until he mugs the guy towards the end, as discussed. In the final scene, however, there are multiple judges with eagles, so it definitely wasn't a case of them only having made one...



Cheers

Jim

It's possible that the other ones weren't hero props and his was the only one that stood up to scrutiny.

A friend of mine works with a guy who made a few helmets for that film, I'm not sure if he'd know about the armour though.

Has there ever been a prog-Dredd where the artist included a Justice Dept tattoo*?  Yesterday I re-read that Ron Smith one about Dredd at the shrink, and he had Justice Dept issue dog-tags round his neck.  Don't think that one was ever repeated.

*Apart from that female judge with the eagle either tattooed or shaved above her gowl

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 07 April, 2014, 03:12:59 PM

I remember Kev Walker saying that the released cut of the movie excised all the conspiracy plot and just left a sequence of action set pieces that made it feel like "a bloody video game."

The 'final' shooting-script has a cover that lists 6 names who contributed to the final draft- Gary Goldman, Danny Cannon, Steven de Souza, Walon Green, William Wisher & John Fasano; only 2 were contracted for screen-credit: William Wisher & Steven de Sousa.

The script is dated 31st October 1994 and is a revised version of the July 1994 script that's available on-line (there were 6 revised editions in-between both). In relation to plot and dialogue, this shooting-script is more or less identical to what ended up on-screen, the only significant differences being Fergie looking at a video-poster for Heavenly Haven- advertising the construction of a Block-Park which is then cancelled to make way for a Justice Dept. Barracks (probably never shot) and extra shots during the fight in the clone-lab at film's end which consists of little more than Stallone being startled by a clone -whose only dialogue is the word 'pain'-  which is then shot and put out of its misery.

They may have shot it a little differently to add more action as the lab implodes but I believe the film's real cuts all concerned extended shots of violence and that no cuts were made to the 'Janus' plot or story relating to Griffin & Rico's putsch.

Judging from the 'final' shooting-script there are no deleted scenes of any story significance and the only excisions are extra shots of violence.

A Megazine article referencing the missing shots:







Steven de Souza recently commented on Disney's reaction to the focus of Danny Cannon's direction:

Which brings up the Judge Dredd rating controversy...

Judge Dredd was actually supposed to be a PG-13 movie. The production company at the time, Cynergy, they were having some financial troubles, so they didn't have any UK executives on location in England. And in their absence, the director (Danny Cannon), wanting to make it true to the comic book, was making everything more and more and more violent. So when the movie was delivered to be cut, it was rated X. It was rated X four times!

They say you can't appeal after four. Four is all you get. Somehow, the producer, Ed Pressman managed to get it one more time to get it rated R. Which actually wasn't a victory, because this was supposed to be PG-13. They had made a deal with Burger King, I think, and a toy company and you can't advertise toys for an R-Rated movie, and no hamburger place wants toys for an R-Rated movie. So the hamburger people and the toy people turned around and sued Disney, the distributor!

Well, Disney then said, we'll take this out of the director's hide, because he signed a piece of paper saying he would deliver a PG-13. But Cynergy, who was releasing it THROUGH Disney, at that point had never done anything BUT an R-Rated movie. Nobody in the entire company had ever had the experience of putting that piece of paper in front of a director...so they had to pay him. They couldn't withhold his salary for violating a legal promise they never asked him to make.

So at the eleventh hour, in a total state of panic, they decided that the advertising campaign should be cartoon panels. Keep in mind that this movie was about five frames away from being an x-rated movie. Their ad campaign was now comic panels of Stallone with word balloons. It's complete cognitive dissonance!

Now, I'm innocent in this. I wrote a PG-13 script! Obviously, I knew how to do it! I did 8 o'clock network TV shows, for god's sake! In the script I wrote that the villain, Armand Assante says "Pull his arms and legs off, save his head for last, I want to hear him scream." I wrote in the script that all you would see are the shadows and hear screams. What the director did, without any supervision since nobody from the studio was there, he had his prop people build an audio animatronic puppet, lifelike in every detail, with breakable limbs, and he actually shot the robot ripping the guy's arms and legs off while the guy is screaming!

At the time, I lived around the corner from the studio, and they called me up when they got the dailies. It was the scene where they whack a newspaper reporter and his wife. In the script, I said it would look like your grandparent's house, but decorated with stuff from now, since the movie is in the future. You were supposed to just see through the curtains a flash of the machine gun and screaming, and maybe one bullet hits the window. That's what I wrote. When they showed me the scene in the dailies, this old couple dies like Bonnie and Clyde. Blown to bits in slow motion. I said, "Oh my God, this movie is supposed to be PG-13!" And they said, "No, it's fine! the director knows all the ratings angles. Run it again!" And I'm like, "No! Once was enough! What did I miss?" He said, "They're dry squibs! That's PG-13! You don't get an R-rating unless there's blood." I said, "There's no such rule! Who the fuck told you that?"

When they put the movie together, there were no alternative takes. The only thing they could do with that scene was to take away the slow-motion and kill them faster, and cut the time of the violence down a little. The payoff is that a few years later, Stephen J. Cannell pitched me to be the writer on his Greatest American Hero movie at Disney. When I pitched at the meeting, everything went great. After I left, Stephen called me up, and he said, "I don't understand. It was all going great, but the minute you left they said: there's no way that sonuvabitch is ever gonna write a movie at Disney. He fucked us so bad, we were sued by Burger King and the toy company for Judge Dredd. He wrote an x-rated movie for this studio!" I was persona non grata at Disney because of Judge Dredd!


http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/steven-e-de-souza/231767/steven-e-de-souza-talks-commando-2-sgt-rock-the-flash-gordon-movie-you-may-never-see-and-much-more

That's great read, thanks Joe.  Although I take his protestations with a pinch of salt - de Souza is hardly blameless for the shape of the clusterfuck in general.

I love the way the bloody  Judge Dredd Megazine itself sticks the boot-knife in - really shows how quickly the mood soured.

Brilliant stuff there - i remember those clone pictures from the Megazine - I had not seen the Dredd film at the time (I saw it when it came out on video) but based on those pictures (even with the helmet off) it looks great.

I think the making of book had some more info (but I threw it away recently).

Quote from: Skullmo on 09 April, 2014, 12:54:49 PM
i remember those clone pictures from the Megazine - I had not seen the Dredd film at the time (I saw it when it came out on video) but based on those pictures (even with the helmet off) it looks great.

As I understand it, the problem was that the clone suits looked great on the set, looked great in stills, and looked absolutely shite on film. Just guy-in-a-cheap-rubber-suit shite, forcing them to write off pretty much the whole scene.

Cheers

Jim