As a long time reader of 2000AD, I have always tried to give every strip from the House of Tharg an equal chance before deciding if I liked it or didn't. Normally if I didnt like it I would tend to just skim it before moving onto the next more interesting story therefore giving it another chance just in case it picked up or had a plot twist or character to elevate it back to normal reading.
However, there was ONE EXCEPTION to this rule, a strip that I didnt like from start to finish....'The Dead' by Milligan and Belardinelli.
Now this is not a thread to bash stories but it would be interesting to see what strips were disliked, if you ever gave it a chance with the benefit of time or if someone gave you such a strong arguement for a particular story that it changed your mind.
What were the reasons why you didnt like it? 'The Dead' was really inpenetrable for my 14 year year old self in 1987 and the art being just so damn wierd didnt help.
Recently, Damnation Station, Harry Kipling, The Red Seas, The TenSeconders, that one about the guy with the x on his head who shags fridges, and Demarco in the Meg all spring to mind. Not my polystyrene cup of thrills. All have been re-attempted at one point or another, with no significant improvement. Also, Time House, Kola Kommandos, Really & Truly, Baberace 2000, Trash, Tao De Moto, The Balls Brothers, Pussyfoot 5...
SBT
Quote from: judgerufian on 01 May, 2014, 10:23:02 AM
'The Dead' by Milligan and Belardinelli ... was really inpenetrable for my 14 year year old self in 1987 and the art being just so damn wierd didnt help
Those are exactly the qualities of that strip which appealed to my only slightly younger self! I employ exactly the same skim-reading technique you describe above to strips once a few episodes have confirmed they're unlikely to knock my socks off, and I can confirm that the dense metaphysical exploration of
The Dead wouldn't yield much pleasure for anyone giving it a quick once-over to establish who kills who that week.
I don't think I've ever completely blanked a strip, but I was definitely employing that skimming technique by the time
Mercy Heights was turning into some kind of
Rogue Trooper crossover, just to find out what Tor Cyan's deal was supposed to be. Come to think of it, I was skimming
Mercy Heights for a good while before that point, but Kev Walker's art sometimes caused me to linger long enough to read the odd episode properly.
I'm fairly sure I've read almost everything in 2000 AD, rather than skipping strips, but one exception might be Grudgefather, which I'm pretty sure I just gave up on entirely after the first couple of episodes. There were plenty during 2000 AD's nadir that I shouldn't have bothered with though: Dry Run, Wireheads, Dinosty, Baberace 2000...
All the stories others mention above * received my patented skimming technique, and although my eyeballs have definitely come into contact with every panel and word balloon of them which saw print, I'd struggle to tell you much of the plot of any of them. It's definitely the process of re-reading, which only usually happens with strips that instinctively click with you in some way, which makes them live on in your memory.
* The Dead, the final series of The Ten Seconders and anything which saw print between 2003 and 2012 excepted
The last series of The 86ers was the only one I've given up on reading. Seemed ok but there was just too much previous that I hadn't read and I wasn't able to get into the story and follow it. Think that's the only one although I came close with a ten-part Dredd story The Ecstasy which was possibly the first Dredd story run on my return to the Prog. It was just far too long and could have been wrapped up in half the time.
Slaine, Nemesis the Warlock, Sooner or Later, Bradley.
Quote from: Dash Decent on 01 May, 2014, 01:32:37 PM
Slaine, Nemesis the Warlock, Sooner or Later, Bradley.
Dash Decent ;)
Finn, Sinister Dexter (mostly), alot of stuff from 92 - 95 when I stopped reading. Z
Quote from: judgerufian on 01 May, 2014, 10:23:02 AM
However, there was ONE EXCEPTION to this rule, a strip that I didnt like from start to finish....'The Dead' by Milligan and Belardinelli.
...
What were the reasons why you didnt like it? 'The Dead' was really inpenetrable for my 14 year year old self in 1987 and the art being just so damn wierd didnt help.
The Dead is one of my all-time favorite thrills. I've reread it several times, it's right there with Bad Company for me near the top.
A few years ago, I went on a massive prog slog (documented somewhat here on the forum); I challenged myself to read every prog - every thrill printed - and I did, so I haven't skipped anything up to date.
What would I
liked to have skipped?
Most of the 90s.
I was recently going to start a thread entitled something like "Stories you should have loved but didn't because there's probably something wrong with you."
Mine's Halo Jones. I know, I know............
Since 2000 (when I started reading) the only strips that I disliked enough to stop reading completely were Necrophim, Blood of Satanus III and Tank Girl (which actually caused me to cancel my Meg subscription).
I've never actually skipped any. I read everything in the prog because it takes less than 5 minutes to read a 5 page story, I've paid for the comic so I might as well. Even if the story is utterly dire in every way, at the very least it makes the other strips seem better by comparison. I was happily absent throughout most of the 90's and only returned to the fold in 2003, so I missed all the dreck.
There have been plenty of stories that I've read through gritted teeth though. Some that spring to mind are, Lobster Random, Detonator X, American Reaper (not from the prog but, you know), Necrophim, Stalag 666, Sinister Dexter, Ampney Crucis, 86ers and Damnation Station. All tested my patience for one reason or another, be it general shitness, confusing plot or art I didn't like.
That's not many for a weekly comic I've been reading for 30 years on and off.
Never skipped a single strip in the 14 years I've been reading the prog & meg. There have been patchy things and terrible stories (most mentioned here) but the Tharg abides.
Although I will say I have skipped a few of the meg interviews that are excessively off-topic... film directors or mainstream comic dudes who've never even seen a prog. Who the fuck cares about them?!
Quote from: CrazyFoxMachine on 01 May, 2014, 03:57:23 PM
Although I will say I have skipped a few of the meg interviews that are excessively off-topic... film directors or mainstream comic dudes who've never even seen a prog. Who the fuck cares about them?!
Some have seemed very 'whaaat? who are you?' but i read them anyway and some have been a bit of a waste but I always think with the Meg (as opposed to the prog) that you are going to get stuff that is a bit more off topic and either comic creator/pop culture related. I always read the strips in the Meg first then go back to read the articles.
When I was assembling a run of the progs that I missed, I was getting all the 688-699 progs in random order. Necropolis and Slaine made sense in any order. Medivac 318 and even the second Chronos Carnival story were memorable enough that when I did get all the progs and read them in one go at last, everything clicked.
Dry Run I gave up on after my first, random, episode. Probably part eight or something. I told myself I'd come back to it when I got the whole 12 parts. I made it through maybe four and gave up. Years later, I tried again, and finally read every word, but it was all in one eye and out the other. I forgot that thing within seconds of reading it.
Years later, about the same thing happened again with the second Ten-Seconders story, except I quit bothering with that after episode one. ("Oh, God, it's even less coherent than the first one!") Read it all when it finished, still stank. Reread it for Thrillpowered Thursday, it never improved.
There are surprisingly few recent 2000AD stories that I find unreadable (a testament to the prog at the moment as compared to the early 90's). I had a huge catch up readathon over the past year or so and am asolutley staggered by the quality of writing/art over esp the past 10-15 years. Z
I don't think I've ever skipped a strip, but there are quite a few that seem to have passed through my brain leaving absolute no memory.
And I know of at last one boarder here, naming no names, who's been getting the prog for decades and ONLY ever reads Dredd.
Quote from: Dandontdare on 01 May, 2014, 05:05:33 PM
And I know of at last one boarder here, naming no names, who's been getting the prog for decades and ONLY ever reads Dredd.
Wow, he/she is missing the integral essense of the prog but hey, each to their own. As long as they buy it thats the main thing!!
When I first started reading the prog (86/87 I think) it was Strontium Dog.
I just didn't get the character or what was up with the big Viking. I think it's partly because I'd got into the prog by reading a huge pile of the Titan reprints that my brother had borrowed from a friend and the single SD volume wasn't one of them. A few years later I read all the SD stories in Best Ofs round a mates house and was soon converted. It's now one of my favourite ever thrills.
While I won't name specific strips there are quite a few over the years and various re-reads that I've given up on. For me its one of the comics great strengths as perverse as that sounds.
Some stuff I wouldn't touch with a barge pole in another comic, or more specifically a none anthology simply 'cos I wouldn't expose myself to them. The fact that they are in 2000ad means they all get tried and even if I give up and they become skips, be it on first reading or subsequent re-reads (its funny how my feels both positive and negative can vary from read to re-read) at least I try them. Its mean I've discovered some quite wonderful stories the type of which I otherwise almost certainly wouldn't.
To do that ya gotta take the rough with the soft.
I don't think I ever skipped anything - although I probably skimmed Finn, Legend of Shamana and later Grey Suit and various Slaine: The Wanderer stories with one eye closed. I love Pat's work more than I can adequately express, but when he does something I don't like I really don't like it.
Of course I did skip the whole damn Prog for the mid-late 90's, which may be a consequence of forcing myself to read everything in the months/years before my wilderness years.
nikolai dante
Have never seen what all the fuss is about
I know..I'll just leave my coat and go...
Since I came back to the prog (with Prog 2000) I think I've skipped an awful lot of ABC Warriors and Slaine - the exception being the luvverly painted current story of Slaine (although I have no clue what's going on as I've missed decades of background tale!)
I have never skipped or skimmed a story in the Prog (since I started getting it continuously) or the Meg ever - I have read them all.
There are some that I dislike more than others: Revere, Indigo Prime, Bob Byrne's Twisted Tales, Calhab Justice, Soul Sisters are the ones that spring most readily to mind but I still read them.
I do now find myself skipping / skimming the non 2000AD or Megazine world related text articles. I do somethings go back to them though, but do n't always read them properly.
Medivac 318 or whatever it was called
Big Dave
Halo jones (now I love it but back then I hated it)
Tribal memories
Big Dave
That Blair thing - was it b.l.a.i.r. 1.
Tyranny Rex - still haven't read a word of it! I will get round to it
Big Dave
I stopped reading the prog completely around 94 or 95 and only started gettin into it again last year - I've now bought every prog from 1200 to 1870, so I have a little catching up to do...
Cheers
Dave
Proteus4, at the risk of going off topic, it suprises me how many people stoppedin the mid 90's and like you and I came back on stream over the last 2 years. The Dredd 12 movie did it for me. Came back on at prog 1806 and havent looked back since. Z
Dredd did it for me too - there I was in the Odyssey cinema at midday on the day of release in a VIP showing feeling like a 12 year old again, And it was AMAZING.!
I took all my old progs out of storage, sold everything after 720 to when I stopped at 1024 and used that money buy more recent ones. I only wish I knew Wagner returned to Dredd in the mid 900's before I sold those ones but generally the prog from 700 onwards was Drek.
Cheers
Dave
I used to skip Nikolai Dante, then I managed to catch up on what had happened in the first few chapters and suddenly it shot to the top of my thrill radar. Conversely Sin-Dexter is now almost a skip for me but was once my favourite thrill.
Proteus4, stick your head into Atomic comics on North Street. Jim has boxes full of old progs, he's a straight dealer and shuld have the 900's. Z
None. But I've often wondered why I was reading something like Space Babes 2000.
Angel Zero and American Reaper. Uuuurrrggghh.
Mid 90's post war machine Rogue.
Its been really interesting to see what gets skipped and peoples general reaction to the 1990's era of 2000ad. I always kept my 2000 collection going but did have various points where the Meg was dropped though all been collected since I jumped back on the Meg in 2008, and perversely enjoyed doing the whole back issues job though I didnt enjoy everything I read!
I did remember another strip I couldnt stand at its beginning then slowly started to read through afore mentioned skimming and that was 'The Red Seas'.
Another thing to mention for Meg readers, ever opened it up to find a floppy that previously was a no-no strip but being collected read better? As much as I was not a Finn fan, the collection read (marginally) better than I remembered and Night Zero was great old school fun.
The first two that spring to mind for me are 'Wire Heads' and, more recently 'Ulysses Sweet' both of which I had to really make an effort to read.
Ace Trucking... never got the hang of it.
This thread is very interesting, in that people aren't saying '...'cos it was crap', but rather acknowledging that it wasn't their cup of tea so they skipped/skimmed/struggled on. And some of the stories listed would be among my all-time favourites, indeed I would consider them essential to the 2000AD experience! A nice insight into the success of the format.
Honestly hasn't read a page of Dredd since that mutie tom was covered in caca halfway through Tour Of Duty.
How do you like them apples, huh?
I have pretty much read everything in the Progs I have had. The beauty of comics is that sometimes a story might be poor but the artwork lifts it up (and vice-versa) and there have been plenty of stories that fall into this category. Wireheads and Trash are prime examples of stories that would be skippable but the artwork drew me in and I ended up reading them anyway.
That said, I have always skipped over Tao de Moto, even on re-reads. How lazy does that make me? I can't even be bothered to read a couple of pages of strip! ::)
Being Scotch and, therefore, tighter than a gnat's chuff, I have never skipped a story. Not only that, every story or run of a series gets reread in full once it's finished, no matter how much I disliked it week on week. Some turds can't be polished, but I do find there are many stories which benefit greatly from this reappraisal.
NB This applies only to the Prog. I feel I could quite easily construct my own interview imaginary with the latest artist to not be encouraged in his comic ambitions at art school but have a chance meeting at a con lead to Tharg's door without the need to ever read it.
Quote from: NeilFord on 02 May, 2014, 10:39:32 AM
Ace Trucking... never got the hang of it.
I thought I was the only one! I just don't get it.
That and Slaine after the Treasure of Britain story (although the current run has caught my attention a little).
I never skip anything in the prog cause you never know when something is going to grab your attention again.
Quote from: Dandontdare on 01 May, 2014, 05:05:33 PM
I know of at last one boarder here, naming no names, who's been getting the prog for decades and ONLY ever reads Dredd.
Pete Wells buys the comic and only ever looks at the front cover! I don't think he's ever realised what those flappy papery things behind it are.
Quote from: The Cosh on 02 May, 2014, 11:03:36 AM
I feel I could quite easily construct my own imaginary interview with the latest artist to not be encouraged in his comic ambitions at art school but have a chance meeting at a con lead to Tharg's door without the need to ever read it
Each creator story is like a beautiful and unique snowflake ... in that there are thousands of them, it's impossible to tell them apart, and they leave me cold.
As a child reading my big brother's Progs, I skipped quite a lot: Rogue Trooper in particular never grabbed my attention. Also, anything with art that looked grown up and scary (e.g. Will Simpson, John Hicklenton, Brendan McCarthy), and anything that came across as pretentious (e.g. Milligan, Morrison, Smith), which was really quite a lot of stuff from the 400s-700s.
Ironically enough, it was around the time of Prog 700 that I became, at age 12, a proper 2000AD obsessive fan, and read everything religiously from that point on (except, for reasons of extreme pretension, Danzig's Inferno). I was genuinely on the edge of myself with excitement at the prospect of every new Prog numbered from about 700-950, perhaps the definiton of 2000AD's supposed nadir. At the time I couldn't understand why the reurn of Sam Slade, my favourite series from the Best of reprints, didn't seem to make sense. Took me many years to realise that it just wasn't very well written; I really thought the problem was with me, and kept re-reading that opening story to make it be good. It never was.
Since then I've never skipped a story in Prog or Meg, except the text stories. And Roxilla's music nonsense. Most of the Meg articles and interviews are worthwhile, although I doubt I'll bother rereading them. But there's plenty that hasn't lingered. I'm a little surprised at all the hatred for Lobster Random - that one I really enjoyed when it ran; a perfect match of artist and writer, with some geuninely funny lines and clever plotting. Ten Seconders and Detonator X, on the other hand, can definitely get bent.
Quote from: AlexF on 02 May, 2014, 03:58:46 PM
I couldn't understand why the return of Sam Slade, my favourite series from the Best Of reprints, didn't seem to make sense. Took me many years to realise that it just wasn't very well written; I really thought the problem was with me, and kept re-reading that opening story to make it be good. It never was
That's so poignant. I feel for tiny you.
I've never skipped any strips in The Prog or The Meg, although I do skip some of the Meg articles. (I often intend to go back to them in the case of the latter, but don't get round to it.) The same can be said for other anthologies that I have bought with the exception Clint, namely the Rex Royd strip, mainly because I found that strip deeply offensive in places. And it takes quite a bit for me to boycott a strip, even if I dislike some of the content.
There are plenty of strips I haven't been keen on though, but I stick with them in case they improve.
Example of a strip that many people seem to like, but I never got to grips with: Indigo Prime. I think this is largely due to the fact that the only Indigo Prime stuff I have read is the latest stuff. Its not that I think that it's particularly bad, I'm just rather lost when reading it. If I'd read it fron the start, maybe maybe my view would be different.
That other story which led into the revival of Indigo Prime, though (what was it, Dead Eyes?)- many here disliked that. While it was far from my favourite strip, I thought it okay.
I haven't been enjoying the Prog that much lately. Curiously, it's not due to the stories being particularly bad though. (Slaine being a possible exception, but I'll see how that improves on a reread.) It's mainly a memory thing. I just can't seem to remember clearly what happened even a week ago so don't get too much from the latest installment.
I know that most stories in these comics are serialised, and this has always been an issue for me, but it seems particularly bad this time. Often there's some kind of hook in the lastest chapter which will stilll pull one in, but the latest stories not so much. I think I will benefit from rereading them from the start though. They don't come across as bad strips at all,.
Quote from: Beeks on 01 May, 2014, 08:03:14 PM
nikolai dante
Have never seen what all the fuss is about
I know..I'll just leave my coat and go...
you're not the only one,maybe its cos I missed the beginning...
for me it was anything with john hinkleton or simon Harrison on art it was too waay out for me and I didn't like it. now...American reaper and tank girl take top spot evey time
Brigand Doom. As a twelve year old I didn't like the B&W art and just found the story impenetrable.
Quote from: Eightball on 03 May, 2014, 08:28:28 PM...and just found the story impenetrable.
Wait, there was a story?
There was a Robbie Morrison - Colin McNeill piece Vanguard about 15 yrs ago, I gave it a cursory read in my relaxation. It was based on Mutiny on the Bounty by the looks of it. It seemed fairly standard fare (the artwork was top-line as usual). There never seemed to be any sequel? Z
Quote from: ZenArcade on 03 May, 2014, 09:41:03 PM
There was a Robbie Morrison - Colin McNeill piece Vanguard about 15 yrs ago, I gave it a cursory read in my relaxation. It was based on Mutiny on the Bounty by the looks of it. It seemed fairly standard fare (the artwork was top-line as usual). There never seemed to be any sequel? Z
was that really 15 years ago? :o
Early 1200's I think. So 14 years ago.Z
It started in my first ever prog, 1212, September 2000. Not quite 15 years, but close.
Didn't it get a limited reprint? I'd kill for a copy.
Don't know. It was worth a punt for a follow up considering some of the hogwash that have had follow ups over the years (night zero springing to mind). Ps Hawk, you never came back on that hells creek find. It's gotta be worth a thread.
Zen - I'll take a look into that next time I'm in town. I think the last time I was there i spent a bit of time looking through old Battle comics.
Some people say they were put off by john hicklintons work but for me that was precisely why I got into 2000ad. First prog I ever read was in the middle of nemesis book 7 and that shit was so f**ked up I was hooked. I'd read a few other comics and they were boring and bland. But 2000ad was so violent and twisted I thought I'd found the most rebellious thing ever and never looked back. Until around prog 700 that is, when it all went to hell on a handcart for a while.
Dave
It's a great wee shop (ps Jim's not paying me commission). He literally has boxes of 2000ad' s left in earlier this year. Z
I found 'Harmony' really hard work too...
Quote from: Eightball on 03 May, 2014, 08:28:28 PM
Brigand Doom. As a twelve year old I didn't like the B&W art and just found the story impenetrable.
< Plink >
Dunno why really, but I've a serious soft spot for Brigand Doom.
I'd
love to own a page of Dave D'Antiquis artwork from this too, it's genuinely on my hit-list.
I'm a tolerant fecker when it comes to The Galaxy's Greatest, and always read the full Prog, rain hail or shine.
I'm afraid I didn't have the patience today to read all four pages of this thread, so apologies if this has already been said or if it is no longer on topic, but:
Just because you didn't enjoy The Dead when you were 14 doesn't mean you wouldn't enjoy it now. It was one of the best strips of the last 37 years, and it deserves another chance. You'll thank me one day.
(And if you STILL don't like it, then the experience will have been character-building.)
I loved the dead. Ps again any Ace Harp haters: give the Tucker trucker another go. Z
I find the majority of strips i have disliked in the past tend to end up as floppies in the meg.And rarely like them again on another reading.
The floppies are pretty poor in my opinion. Ps apologies for my predictive spell typo: Garp not Harp (which is a reasonably good Irish larger beer.....oh and a musical instrument). Z
Quote from: Judge Nutmeg on 04 May, 2014, 01:28:20 PM
I find the majority of strips i have disliked in the past tend to end up as floppies in the meg.And rarely like them again on another reading
The floppies generally appear to be composed of strips that aren't likely to ever be republished in trade collections, whether that's because there just isn't a large enough potential audience for them or because there isn't enough material there to warrant a dedicated book.
Quote from: AlexF on 02 May, 2014, 03:58:46 PM
I was genuinely on the edge of myself with excitement at the prospect of every new Prog numbered from about 700-950, perhaps the definiton of 2000AD's supposed nadir
Yep, you have pretty much nailed my slog, 700-960 (+1000). It's not called a slog for nothing.
And it's not one I can avoid, in all conscience, since the majority of those (possibly vast majority...) are effectively unread.
So it's with minty-fresh confidence that I can add
Tao de Moto and
anything by Fleischer to this list. And while we're dissing the pretensions of some old strips,
Hewligan's Haircut. Guff
*
* It seems that around '91 the TPBs started coming out. On that very short list, Hewligan's Haircut. Why? I wonder if it sold....
Quote from: Fungus on 04 May, 2014, 03:49:24 PM
Hewligan's Haircut. Guff * * It seems that around '91 the TPBs started coming out. On that very short list, Hewligan's Haircut. Why? I wonder if it sold....
Hewlett was a bona fide superstar by that point, with a loyal audience outside fandom. I can't say I've ever felt the need to go back and do anything other than look at the pictures, but
Hewligan's Haircut was alright for a laugh - certainly by the usual standards of Tharg's gag material. Now we're being treated to new/old thrills like Ulysses Sweet and Sam Slade, I wouldn't bet against seeing Lee Carter and Guy Adams's
New Adventures Of Hewligan's Haircut.
True, at that stage the universe literally seemed to orbit around Hewlett. I never really bought into it but it was passable enough fare in an early 90's trippy sort of way. The art that really alienated me was stuff like Shaky 2000's Dredd and soul gun warrior....uuugh I'm still wincing at the memories. Z
Quote from: Link Prime on 01 May, 2014, 01:42:32 PM
Dash Decent ;)
Nah, you're thinking of Captain Klep!
I really liked Hewligan's Haircut. Also loved The Dead (and have just realised that it's so called because of Pete Milligan's Joyce fetish) and Dash Decent, which was a right old larf and beautifully drawn by the 2000ad-est of all artists, Kev O'Neill.
Rose O'Rion I couldn't get my head around; and the sequel to Mean Team.
Quote from: Richard on 04 May, 2014, 01:19:03 PM
I'm afraid I didn't have the patience today to read all four pages of this thread, so apologies if this has already been said or if it is no longer on topic, but:
Just because you didn't enjoy The Dead when you were 14 doesn't mean you wouldn't enjoy it now. It was one of the best strips of the last 37 years, and it deserves another chance. You'll thank me one day.
(And if you STILL don't like it, then the experience will have been character-building.)
If 'The Dead' is ever collected as a floppy, its being read from start to finish! Unless I dig out the particular progs...you've convinced me to give it another chance!
Good man!
There is a Monthly with the Dead in and also an Extreme Edition (much nicer printing).
I really enjoyed Hewligan's Haircut - it was a lovely story and actually had a bit of love in it for once, I get tired of gritty loner war stories every now and then.
Quote from: ZenArcade on 04 May, 2014, 08:17:23 PM
True, at that stage the universe literally seemed to orbit around Hewlett.
Hear hear! Such was Tank Girl's & the Hewl's attendant ascension to superstardom at the time that actual, genuine girls began venturing into comic stores.
*shudder*Stevie even once picked up a pretty young minx with a bob haircut & a copy of prog 701 tucked under her arm.
In a library. BAN THIS SICK FILTH.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 05 May, 2014, 04:12:49 PM
the sequel to Mean Team
That sucked, but not as much as BRING BACK THE CAT! (http://www.2000ad.org/covers/2000ad/hires/639.jpg) Didn't disingenuous Tharg try to frame that atrocity as a response to reader demand to see more of Henry Moon? And was that the first example of a Wagner and Grant strip being farmed out to another writer?
Oh dear, Mean Team 2, not Alan Hebden's finest hour - I keep managing to forget that seemingly-endless story existed. Although I didn't mind Survivor that much - short and sweet, and rather pretty. Did I dream it, or did Tharg reprint this lot in a collection a year or two ago?
He did. I keep meaning to buy it because I like the look of it. Great paper stock I reem to remember.
Quote from: Hawkmonger on 07 May, 2014, 08:21:15 AM
Great paper stock I reem to remember.
Well at least there's that.
No, I kid, a hundred-odd pages of Massimo is never less than a treat.
Should have probably elaborated on that. Basically its in the typical tooth reprint design with the coloured band and face on the spine. I saw this expecting it to the the laminated paper but it turned out to be the rougher consistency used in the phone books. It looked lush!
Tharg clearly thought that lightning could strike twice by re-uniting the Meltdown Man team only to be proven spectacular wrong.
Clearly Hebden didn't seem to think much of it either. Or maybe he just couldn't beleive how having Balook / Baloo speaking in rhyming couplets seemed such a Really Good Idea At The Time.
That ending is truly the comics equivalent of upturning the Monopoly board & stuffing handfuls of play money into one's mouth.
However this squaxx didn't mind Survivor at all & actually expected more to be forthcoming.
I take it back; that story about the talking cat was only one rung below Akira. Maybe I judged that and the second Mean Team especially harshly because they marked the point where I realised that Tharg was no longer giving Massimo and Uncle Ron top material to work with.
Watching Belardinelli and the man who created Otto Sump work through the slush pile of Future Shocks and strips that weren't suited to their strengths, until their appearances in the prog slowed to a trickle, engendered the same emotions as watching a pensioner pausing in the street to let their even more elderly dog catch up by wobbling, shuffling, and panting their way along the pavement.
Quote from: sauchie on 07 May, 2014, 06:48:16 AM
That sucked, but not as much as BRING BACK THE CAT! (http://www.2000ad.org/covers/2000ad/hires/639.jpg) Didn't disingenuous Tharg try to frame that atrocity as a response to reader demand to see more of Henry Moon? And was that the first example of a Wagner and Grant strip being farmed out to another writer?
Little bit harsh on the cat story, in my opinion. I liked it, anyway.
The second series of Mean Team stands out for me as being a story for 10 year olds surrounded by stories for 18 year olds (Dillon's Rogue Trooper, Kitson's Anderson, Hicklenton's Nemesis). The first series sits very nicely with its contemporaries (Talbot Nemesis; Gibson Robohunter; D&D era Slaine). That said, I was 10 at the time and enjoyed it a ton, purely because of the art and the central cast of characters. For reasons I forget, we never got the Prog with the final episode, and I had to wait years to fill that back Prog hole. Boy, was the ending ever not worth the excitement built up in my head.
On the Wagner/Grant question, I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Judge Dredd had been written by other people at this point :)
Oh, and the chap who asked about Indigo Prime being more intelligble if you start at the beginning?
No, it's not. See also: every other strip by John Smith. (In fact, Anthropocalypse is a pretty straight story by his standards, and provides as good an explanation of Indigo Prime as can be found anwyhere else). Smith's great, though. He doesn't hold your hand through his scripts, and 7 times out of 10 that makes them all the more rewarding.
Having completed 'the slog' a couple of years ago, there were a number of strips I'd skipped and had no intention of reading until I made myself do so. Ant Wars, Project: Overkill, the second Robo-Hunter series, Angel, Black Hawk, any of the text stories from the annuals. It's harder to say which strips I skipped from the nineties, as I dropped out at that point and so I was mainly dependent upon what was being reprinted in graphic novels until I had a set of the Progs before me. I also went through a period of automaticaly disliking any work by a particular artist or writer without giving them a fair go.
However, the one strip that I hated at the time, and that didn't really win me over until well into it's second year, was Judge Dredd. I remember the joy of reading Tharg's Nerve Centre editorial in an early prog to find out that it was being cancelled. Frognum Gruelis indeed.
Quote from: AlexF on 08 May, 2014, 11:36:28 AM
On the Wagner/Grant question, I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Judge Dredd had been written by other people at this point :)
You know perfectly well what I meant, Axel F (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqG1l4lScsg). Even allowing for the fact that the Dredd strip wasn't a Wagner/Grant creation, it hadn't been written by anyone other than those two since the formation of the TB Grover partnership until well after the second series of
Mean Team saw print. I can't think of anything those two wrote being handed to anyone else until
Mean Team 2, except maybe text stories in annuals.
Presumably, the Hebdenating of Bad Jack Keller and Co. was instrumental in their trashing of their other strips, so other writers couldn't trash them later ... however futile those efforts would prove to be.
You're quite right Sauchie (and however did you guess my college years DJ name), I was being facetious.
On a technicality, one could argue that Milligan's work on BAD Company was taking over from Wagner/Grant's original version - except it's almost entirely different from the one story they wrote! (which presumably Milligan was able to read, even if we weren't until they reprinted it in the Megazine however many years ago). That said, Milligan's strip is basically a re-do of Wagner's old 'Darkie's mob', but set on a hellish future war planet with Krool in place of Japanese soldiers in Burma, so it's inspired by the great man in more ways than one.
This is all detracting from your point of course - other writers taking on Wagner/Grant characters tend to drop the ball quite spectacularly (Hebden, Millar, Ennis, Hogan)
Robo Hunter slowly became a 'CBA' strip as time went on. The Millar stuff ..... well, I think that one has been done to death elsewhere. But at the risk of being supremely castigated the one that I have never warmed to is Slaine, particularly with Langley on art duties. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a fantastic artist but I find the artwork so dense that it detracts from the story.
Another vote for Tank Girl.
Whatever supposed charms of the character completely pass me by, and in any case, the strip didn't belong in the Meg.
Back in the 80s and early 90s, my prog-reading hey-day, I'd never skip anything apart from the text stories. This means I have read Junker. *sob*
Junker, wasn't horribly bad, in fact I quite liked it. The artwork was top notch and the plot was pretty much souped up 1940's or 1950's US pulp sci fi. It was, I admit, pretty undemanding; but nowhere nearly as bad as most of the other tosh put out in the prog at that time. Z
I've said it a thousand times, but this place has taught me that there's always someone who found merit in the strips and creators who had you flinging the comic across the room in despair. There's an alternate reality where 2000ad changed its name to Henry Moon Comic: featuring Junker, due to reader demand.
Well, we'll not go as far as to, in any sense endorse the Mean team sequel. Z >:(
Quote from: ZenArcade on 09 May, 2014, 07:15:58 PM
Junker, wasn't horribly bad, in fact I quite liked it. The artwork was top notch and the plot was pretty much souped up 1940's or 1950's US pulp sci fi.
You're so right about the art - it was so evocative of the whole pulp thing, I loved it. Which made my utter hatred of the drivel it was being sacrificed to all the stronger. Imagine those beautiful Ridgway designs on something that didn't make you want to plunge a red-hot poker through your brain...
Ridgeway's a class act, but Travis Perkins's garish and overbearing colours killed any joy to be found in Junker as an aesthetic object, as they did with any number of Dredd tales of that vintage. Plus, that story ran for as long as Necropolis. Even if Junker had been a fun retro pulp sci-fi blast, six months of that (or any story) are quite wearying.
It ran for 16 episodes. Which is 16 episodes too many (and about 4 episodes longer than I thought it was) but not quite as long as you remember.
As I say a long, long time since I read it, may just revisit next week. Z
Quote from: Greg M. on 09 May, 2014, 08:11:12 PM
It ran for 16 episodes. Which is 16 episodes too many (and about 4 episodes longer than I thought it was) but not quite as long as you remember.
Pretty fucking low to use
'facts' against me, Greg. I've got my eye on you.
There was a two-month gap in the story - presumably to give Ridgway (and the rest of us) time to recover the will to live. I can't remember if Ridgway's ever commented on the strip - maybe in T.P.O. - he's not known for being especially reticent in expressing his opinions, and I'm prepared to bet he wasn't enjoying himself on it.
Quote from: ZenArcade on 09 May, 2014, 08:11:36 PM
As I say a long, long time since I read it, may just revisit next week
Not trying to brow beat ya, Z - discovering what other folk liked about the stories that had me remonstrating with my newsagent is actually kind of wonderful. I'm on fire regarding factual errors tonight; the guy who coloured half of
2000ad pink and lemon during the late eighties and early nineties was called Tim, and not Travis Perkins (http://www.travisperkins.co.uk/).
Presumably not this chap, either.
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/10/109303/2222930-travis_perkins.jpg)
Look, the guy wasn't very good at colouring in; that's no reason to compare him to a lumbering lower form of life, or to wish him dead. I'm witnessing the nasty bullying culture others have identified in action.
Oh Heavens no Sauchie, I dont feel in any sense put upon. It is a forum and we're all here to express our views, likes/dislikes etc in a forthright but (hopefully) at all times reasoned and civilised manner. It is this sense of mischevous, ribald fun coupled with real well argued insights, which has me here as an avid reader and poster on this site. Z
Quote from: Greg M. on 09 May, 2014, 08:20:31 PM
There was a two-month gap in the story - presumably to give Ridgway (and the rest of us) time to recover the will to live. I can't remember if Ridgway's ever commented on the strip ...
I think he did - if not in TPO, in an interview. Something about an object Junker (or whatever his name was) was supposed to be carrying for three episodes, which Fleischer only actually mentioned in the script when he came to use it, and thus Ridgway hadn't been drawing?
I've just been buying trades for about a year and a half now and the only one I have't been able get through so far was been Harry 20: On the High Rock.
Quote from: PopFenton on 09 May, 2014, 08:55:14 PM
I've just been buying trades for about a year and a half now and the only one I have't been able get through so far was been Harry 20: On the High Rock
It turns out they were all dead and just waiting around in limbo. Personally, I never cared for all that Judge Dredd nonsense.
Harry 20 on the High Rock wasn't horribly bad, in fact I quite liked it. The artwork was top notch and the plot was pretty much 1940's, 1950's US pulp prison escape fiction. It was I admit pretty understanding and nowhere near the genius put out in the prog at that time. Z
Quote from: sauchie on 09 May, 2014, 07:25:09 PM
I've said it a thousand times, but this place has taught me that there's always someone who found merit in the strips and creators who had you flinging the comic across the room in despair.
I think someone logged on briefly in 2009 who liked Chronos Carnival.