2000 AD Online Forum

Art Editor extraordinaire, Simon Pye Parr, announced he's thinking of having a tinker with the 2000ad logo (the type one, rather than Steve Cook's red and white badge ident on the left hand side), and that the version of the logo seen on the latest Sci-fi Special was a kind of try out for the sort of thing he had in mind. What do y'all think (current logo below for comparison):

I think 'no'.  I think the simplicity, even redundancy, of the current 'text' logo is a real asset to the cover. It's clear, it stands out, and it doesn't matter if it gets badly obscured by sprawling art.  It also, if I can openly be a knob for a minute, suggests a certain maturity that sets it apart from the plastic-tat and/or spandex-digest brigades.  The SF Special version works okay on a cover with very little else going on, but aside from that it just looks like yet more aren't-computers-cool type.

I'm fighting with TordelBack Block on this one.  I'm really not a fan of that new font.

Quote from: TordelBack on 05 June, 2014, 06:25:47 PM
the simplicity, even redundancy, of the current 'text' logo is a real asset to the cover. It's clear, it stands out, and it doesn't matter if it gets badly obscured by sprawling art.  It also, if I can openly be a knob for a minute, suggests a certain maturity that sets it apart from the plastic-tat and/or spandex-digest brigades.

It's the internet; it behoves us to be as openly knobbish as the limited means of expression available to us allows. I don't hate the direction in which Pye appears to be headed, but I agree that the relative anonymity of that clear and understated typeface suits the purpose it's intended to serve - especially given that it's always accompanied by the much more distinctive badge logo. Having two strong visual statements warring against each other seems like overkill to me, especially when there's (hopefully) an equally attention grabbing cover image vying for attention too.

Pye also talked (here (http://2000ad.wordpress.com/2014/06/04/ecbt2000ad-podcast-keith-richardson-pye-parr/)) about redesigning the badge logo to function more akin to the way Marvel and DC indicia are used on their covers, and he indicated he might share his roughs with ECBT2000ad. I'd be excited to see what he has in mind for both the badge and the bigger logo ... because I'm a nerd.

Also with TB on this one. If it must be there, neutral is good.

Getting back on board, seeing 2 logos felt odd and didn't quite sit right. Looking at older covers, that enormous '2000AD' seems to cheat you out of cover art.
Sometimes the colour scheme or design gains plaudits, because it 'blended in well'. There's an argument for removing it?

Maybe a bigger corner logo, for me then. Pretty clear the logo design itself is destined to be there for a long time to come.

Fans of the second big '2000AD' might think it attracts the casual reader if scarlet enough, but I don't see that really. Good art does that? And regular readers will find their prog.

Pye running his (obviously excellent) ideas past grunts like us would be fun :)

Quote from: Fungus on 05 June, 2014, 08:19:41 PM
Maybe a bigger corner logo, for me then

On the podcast linked to above, Pye says one of the reasons they introduced the banner across the top was because they started repurposing prog covers for trade paperback collections. TPBs typically feature a title strapped across the top of the cover, but the prog covers artists were producing were all oddly weighted to one side because they knew the badge logo would be in the top left area of the cover image.

I find that the badge logo and the type logo look incongrous sitting together....a tautology of sorts. I actually found the early 1200 type logo attractive (I think I'd be in a vanishingly small minority there). Yep be brave: do something different! After all if we don't like it, we can aways revert. Z

I too will stamp my feet and harrumph about the fact its always getting covered so who cares anyway. Barhumbug... don't like it anyway, it looks to me like it will date quite quickly...suits the art on the Summer Special mind.

... mind what the heck do I know?

Pye sent a copy to me for the covers blog, here it is...

I really like the badge logo and have thought for a while that it would better if that alone was used and the text one was dispensed with.

I understand there are reason why it is there though, and given that I guess keep it as simple as possible.

THe sci-fi special is too angular. It will date very quickly.

Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 05 June, 2014, 10:37:33 PM
THe sci-fi special is too angular. It will date very quickly.

Which is a shame because that cover is timeless.

Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 05 June, 2014, 10:37:33 PM
THe sci-fi special is too angular. It will date very quickly.

Yeah, I agree.  I can see it going the way of the different typefaces Tharg was throwing out around the turn of the century.
It's fine the way it is.

They can use this. No fee needed. You're welcome Pye

Oooh, they should use my design!

I think the original Logo needs to come back with a slight modern twist!

The original original logo is great, retro in a good way. Perhaps a little too retro to bring back full-time.



I'm aware that the chrome looking round one used from around prog 100-500 has a lot of admirers, but is, and always has been, lame and fugly. Imo of course.

How times change. While "futuristic" (for a year 14 years ago?  :)) feels wrong in this day & age as has been said, the original logo is hard to knock even now.

And Mr Carroll's is just too sexy to be an option...

I really liked the logo and typeface used in the prog 1874 'jump on' ad.

I got unreasonably excited when I saw it, assuming it was the new logo.

(http://s969.photobucket.com/user/spaceghost71/media/2000adlogo.jpg.html)

Quote from: Mike Carroll on 06 June, 2014, 01:11:53 AM
Oooh, they should use my design!

You're fired, CAR-L. Report to Mek-Quake.

Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 05 June, 2014, 10:37:33 PM
THe sci-fi special is too angular. It will date very quickly.

I'm with Dr X and TBack on this one

Quote from: Molch-R on 06 June, 2014, 10:12:40 AM

Quote from: Mike Carroll on 06 June, 2014, 01:11:53 AM
Oooh, they should use my design!

You're fired, CAR-L. Report to Mek-Quake.

It's worth being fired to finally get a "droid name"!

Quote from: Mike Carroll on 06 June, 2014, 10:51:43 AM
It's worth being fired to finally get a "droid name"!

Third door on the left, droid. Where the screams are coming from...

Pye Parr's design skills are awesome, but I don't find that an improvement in any way.

I love the chrome logo (attached). I can see all kind of technical and practical reasons why is shouldn't work, but it just does. I love it to bits. Nothing would make me happier than seeing it back on the prog. Not even Alan Moore and Alan Davis working on D.R & Quinch again.

To be honest, I don't mind either version - sci-fi special or prog.  The thing that always looks odd to my eyes is the repetition of having the 200AD logo on the left followed by 2000AD again.  I think that will always look a little odd no matter what you try and do.  Saying that, I listened to the recent ECBT interview and I thought it was a really good idea to create a Marvel/DC type top-left logo that could run through the whole catalogue.

This also reminds me of what we had back in the 1000s but it worked a bit better there as they used Dredd's badge for the top-left logo.

I agree with Recrewt's well made points. Z

hello everyone,
just thought I had to join in on this, as I inadvertently kicked off the topic of conversation and would like to elaborate a little bit on my/our thinking about the logos.

Firstly, thank you for all the comments, both positive and negative - I agree with many of the points being raised here, especially the 'this font will date quickly' stuff about the sci-fi special. Keep em coming - I'll take on board (within reason!) any input you guys have, and once I have something worth showing I'll post it up.

In general though - we're gonna keep the '2 logo' thing, although as I said on the podcast I would like to make the red 2000ad badge more of a brand for 2000ad publishing and products as a whole, (like DC or Marvel use their logos) rather than specifically as the logo for the Prog, so I want add it to the cover of the Megazine too, and keep it running on all the Gns and merchandise - Then have separate, text-based logos for each of the magazines.

In the roughs I've been working on the badge then becomes a bit smaller on the cover (about 1/2 the size it is currently) but would NEVER get covered by the art, as I also want to add the issue/date info under it, for ease of flicking through big boxes of comics etc. If you look at the covers for the US one-shots we put out recently (dredd: underbelly and brass sun) you'll see kinda where I'm going.

Much as I love the old logos too (especially the very first one, and the square from c. Prog 700 - when i started reading) I wont be reinstating them any time soon - although I'd like to tip my hat to them a little bit if possible, and have tried a few things out in this vein... I'll see how that goes though. I think maybe an all or nothing approach might be best?

anyway - thanks again, I hope when I finally do have something that I'm happy with that you chaps dig it too!
cheers
pye

Makes sense. I'm sure it'll rock.

Thanks for the update.

Quote from: CrazyFoxMachine on 05 June, 2014, 10:48:00 PM

Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 05 June, 2014, 10:37:33 PM
THe sci-fi special is too angular. It will date very quickly.

Which is a shame because that cover is timeless.

That's certainly one word for it.

As for the logo, I've hated - nay, utterly despised - the logo as it is. Boring, safe and completely unrelated to the product it's supposed to sell. Good for a golfing magazine, useless as a showcase for a sci-fi anthology. I agree the Sci-Fi Special's one may not be the way to go but that's no reason to not explore the options for something new and a little more eye-catching.

Quote from: Montynero on 06 June, 2014, 11:20:39 AM
Pye Parr's design skills are awesome, but I don't find that an improvement in any way.

I love the chrome logo (attached). I can see all kind of technical and practical reasons why is shouldn't work, but it just does. I love it to bits. Nothing would make me happier than seeing it back on the prog. Not even Alan Moore and Alan Davis working on D.R & Quinch again.

Really? Try to remove the rose-tinted spectacles here - it's not just me that thinks its a bit naff is it? I'd go so far as to say it would look laughably anachronistic on a modern prog cover. It's just got a kind of wishy-washy, naive quality to it that doesn't say 'hard-edged sci-fi' to me at all. It actually took me a long time to figure out it was even supposed to look like chrome. It is by some considerable distance the worst logo 2000AD has ever had (IMO!). The replacement, brought in with prog 555 IIRC, is a vast improvement.

Sorry, each to their own and that. Just always hated that logo. I can understand the affection for it - I think everyone thinks the logo that was contemporary when they first started reading the prog is their own 'definitive' one - I have a soft spot for the mid-nineties early cgi style one, even though that's also a bit garish to modern eyes.

QuoteIn general though - we're gonna keep the '2 logo' thing, although as I said on the podcast I would like to make the red 2000ad badge more of a brand for 2000ad publishing and products as a whole, (like DC or Marvel use their logos) rather than specifically as the logo for the Prog, so I want add it to the cover of the Megazine too, and keep it running on all the Gns and merchandise - Then have separate, text-based logos for each of the magazines.

Makes perfect sense to me. The prog and meg sharing branding - which has been attempted a few times but was short-lived - was always a wise move I thought. The classic 'fan' logo is a great, timeless piece of design, but isn't terribly legible (I remember thinking the comic was called 'Zooad' when I was a kid.). Makes sense to use it as a logo rather than the main title font. Very much looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Pretty much the first and current logos are my faves - everything else in-between I've not been that thrilled with.

It's a tricky one to solve (if such a thing is possible), especially when you're attempting to have the same thing twice on the cover.

I think getting the banner 2000AD performing some other function (the return of the featuring Judge Dredd strapline) might work.

As for the look of it - too similar and it's likely to really fight with the corner one.

Best of luck with it!

Quote from: pye-01 on 06 June, 2014, 04:20:11 PM
In general though - we're gonna keep the '2 logo' thing, although as I said on the podcast I would like to make the red 2000ad badge more of a brand for 2000ad publishing and products as a whole, (like DC or Marvel use their logos) ...

Much as I love the old logos ... I wont be reinstating them any time soon - although I'd like to tip my hat to them a little bit if possible, and have tried a few things out in this vein... I'll see how that goes though. I think maybe an all or nothing approach might be best?

I agree. The Marvel/DC box type use of the logo across the range seems like a sensible way of keeping the established identity on the cover, without the different aesthetics of the badge and the text competing for attention. As solid blocks of massive text at the top of the cover in splendid isolation, without the badge making the design look too busy, I think something along the (angular) lines of what's reproduced above could work.

Those examples do look as if they're missing one crucial design element that would make them really work. I hope you'd consider keeping the way you've cleverly made the AD elements of the current logo echo the palette of the artist image, which is used to fantastic effect here (http://2000ad.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/2000ad-1884-neil-roberts.jpg), here (http://2000ad.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/2000ad-1879-phil-winslade.jpg?w=627) and (particularly) here (http://www.2000ad.org/covers/2000ad/hires/1825.jpg). Something small and quite subtle like that really makes all the difference between a logo and/or a cover design working or not. I'm not quite as certain as some here that whatever design you eventually settle upon has to be especially distinctive or to scream FUTURE ROBOT SEX! at the top of its voice, though.

Really looking forward to any updates you care to share here or with ECBT2000ad - bet you never realised typefaces and trade dress aroused such strong passions in the hearts of nerds.

Quote from: chicken drinker on 06 June, 2014, 05:20:31 PM
or to scream FUTURE ROBOT SEX!

:'( I was hoping FUTURE ROBOT SEX was going to be a hyperlink  :'(

Funny, the second one is where I think it doesn't work at all - especially in light of the comments that the likes of Smiths stack it with the corner popping out.

(Unless they've been Burdised)

Fine to just clip it, but to obscure the corner one seems like a bad idea.

Quote from: Steve Green on 06 June, 2014, 05:38:09 PM
Funny, the second one is where I think it doesn't work at all - especially in light of the comments that the likes of Smiths stack it with the corner popping out. (Unless they've been Burdised) Fine to just clip it, but to obscure the corner one seems like a bad idea

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought they were referring to the way magazines are stacked so that only the TOP fifth of the cover is showing - which is why the banner text is in the same position as the text logos of every other magazine on the shelves. The badge logo's up there too, but it isn't too visible (and certainly isn't legible) from much more than a few feet away.

I must be wrong, I took it as more the corner tended to survive other publications getting re-arranged in front of it by browsers.

I still think the banner can take a bigger hit over the corner badge.

If you are going to do it, I'd rather something interesting was done with it - that Quartz cover would have been especially cool if the 2000AD had been refracted (or even visible) through his dome. Not especially tricky if it's a cover that's digital like Clint's would be.



Yeah, I know, it takes time...

Quote from: pye-01 on 06 June, 2014, 04:20:11 PM
I also want to add the issue/date info under it, for ease of flicking through big boxes of comics etc. If you look at the covers for the US one-shots we put out recently (dredd: underbelly and brass sun) you'll see kinda where I'm going.

Not wishing to ramble earlier I omitted this, but also feel this makes cataloguing a whole lot easier. Get the prog # up there.

Here's a minor consideration, probably already addressed by the above: my local newsagent - where I pick up the prog occasionally - cannot read the price. It's too small.

I very much prefer the logo (main one) the way it is.

It's simple yet effective.

I think there are some definite cases of rose-tinted glasses going on here with regards to some of the older logos. I don't even like the original one all that much!

While I started reading in the Chrome era and do have a nostalgic affection, my all-time fave was the big red rectangle with the fan-logo from the late '80s.  Gorgeous - I was so happy to see the basic design return when it did.

I still think the current text's inoffensive blandness is a real strength, allowing the cover image to do the talking while the fan-badge does the branding.  But I have faith that Pye and Tharg can make it even better!

Quote from: TordelBack on 06 June, 2014, 07:34:36 PM
the current text's inoffensive blandness is a real strength, allowing the cover image to do the talking while the fan-badge does the branding

I can't think of a single magazine I've bought because I liked the logo, whereas I can think of a fair few I bought despite their awful design and production values. Just about every magazine on the shelves of newsagents has a variation on the same big, white, san serif typeface, so a distinctive title style obviously isn't the difference between life and death.

Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 06 June, 2014, 07:21:05 PM
I think there are some definite cases of rose-tinted glasses going on here with regards to some of the older logos. I don't even like the original one all that much!

Me neither. My favourite is the red corner logo we've still got.

Am I the only one to keep spotting this thread and getting all excited then horribly crestfallen when I realise that it still doesn't say "New 2000AD Lego"?

:-\

Quote from: Fungus on 06 June, 2014, 06:28:47 PM
Here's a minor consideration, probably already addressed by the above: my local newsagent - where I pick up the prog occasionally - cannot read the price. It's too small.

Yes! The lovely old lady who serves me every week, pretty much takes my word for it that the prog costs £2.45

I love the idea of shrinking the badge and displaying the Prog number, date & price there. I agree that branding all the 2000AD family of products this way is the future. I'd like to see some straight to one-shot or miniseries outside the Prog from some of the best talent - without robbing us of top talent in the Prog obviously.Such titles having the 2000AD ident on them would breath fresh life into everything & have more chance of busting in to other markets where the 37 years history might be daunting to new readers.

This is what is making things like Brass Sun sell so well...

And of all the past and present text logos I far prefer the original. Though to be fair the current one isn't an issue (pardon the pun).

Quote from: chicken drinker on 06 June, 2014, 07:45:30 PM

Quote from: TordelBack on 06 June, 2014, 07:34:36 PM
I can't think of a single magazine I've bought because I liked the logo, ...

That's a very good point. At least when it comes to the comics itself. That said (and I know nowt about marketing) when you are trying to break a new(ish) market, like the US, if the physical product is part of your strategy (heavens know about digital and how you browse there) I'd have thought having an easily recognised logo might get people to check the product further when the cover draws their eye.

'Ohh that's 2000ad I've been hearing about that' - pick up - flick through - maybe buy?

Certainly I'd think the smaller ident would be very important for the trades range?

Yes - branding does sell. It is a fact that branding sells.

If a new fizzy drink comes out with loads of fanfare on TV it might do OK. If the new fizzy drink is called Coke Zero it will sell much more.

Now obviously some people won't be impressed by the branding idea. But on the whole branding works.

Quote from: Bat King on 07 June, 2014, 12:40:24 AM
It is a fact that branding sells. If a new fizzy drink comes out with loads of fanfare on TV it might do OK. If the new fizzy drink is called Coke Zero it will sell much more

I can't remember anyone suggesting the name of the comic should be changed. Certainly not to Diet 2000ad.

Quote from: chicken drinker on 07 June, 2014, 07:58:24 AM

Quote from: Bat King on 07 June, 2014, 12:40:24 AM
It is a fact that branding sells. If a new fizzy drink comes out with loads of fanfare on TV it might do OK. If the new fizzy drink is called Coke Zero it will sell much more

I can't remember anyone suggesting the name of the comic should be changed. Certainly not to Diet 2000ad.

Stop being so silly, Diet 2000ad as it will clearly be 2000ad Light (well of course that could be the child friendly 2000ad we (I) always whine about wanting!)

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 07 June, 2014, 08:33:51 AM
that could be the child friendly 2000ad we (I) always whine about wanting!

You'll always have Lawman Of The Future, Colin. That was a lot like the de-caff, zero calorie versions of fizzy drinks, in that you could let your kids have it without worrying about it getting them all excited or having any lasting effect upon them whatsoever.

The 2000AD light comment reminded me of the daft house ad I did way back when the illustrator program (and my skills) were a tad more basic. Here's the can...



Also, while I'm at it, I just posted another classic cover from '81 on Secret Oranges...
http://secret-oranges.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/no-surrender.html

2000AD Lite (European market ready title) wouldn't be renaming the Prog it would be as Colin suggests a new comic but called 2000AD not 'Kids Future Comic' as branding it 2000AD tells readers something.

OK in a comic example it tells them it isn't a cheap tie-in to a TV show, Film or Toy-line more than anything.

2000AD badge on Megazine isn't as obvious in UK as Brits should realise Dredd is from 2000AD but in US putting the 2000AD Badge on Brass Sun brands it. The US readers may never have heard of Brass Sun as they don't read the Prog. But they see a single subject comic & they see the 2000AD badge. They think 'that freaky Brit anthology is supposedly good but I like one story to a comic. I'll try this.' where as without the badge they may have ignored it in the crowds of comics.

Branding works.

Brilliant image still Steven!

The logo as a badge thing has been tried before, except with Dredd.

Not sure if this was under Steve's tenure.

It was one of mine, though not one of my favourites. This was when we had to update everything in readiness for the Stallone Dredd movie.

Thanks Steve.

Funny how that badge looks an awful lot like the 2012 Dredd badge as well.

Good point!

With apologies to all concerned, I think the only thing I like about  that cover is the leetle Dreddhead icon.  And maybe the rosette/flourish wotsit around the price.

I'll confess to still having a certain fondness for this effort that I knocked up several years ago...

Quote from: robocook on 07 June, 2014, 11:41:54 AM
It was one of mine, though not one of my favourites. This was when we had to update everything in readiness for the Stallone Dredd movie

... and then had to change the formatting again to remove any mention of Dredd once the Stallone movie stank out theatres and turned the character into such a toxic brand that editorial considered dropping the Dredd strip entirely. Just a year after the release of the 1995 film, THIS (http://www.2000ad.org/covers/2000ad/hires/1015.jpg) was the first 2000ad cover in almost seventeen years (http://www.2000ad.org/covers/2000ad/hires/178.jpg) not to feature any mention of Judge Dredd.

Hope you noticed that the majority opinion here appears to be that the fantastic red and white card/badge logo you designed is the best to grace the cover of the comic, Steve.

Quote from: chicken drinker on 07 June, 2014, 02:50:50 PM
Just a year after the release of the 1995 film, THIS (http://www.2000ad.org/covers/2000ad/hires/1015.jpg) was the first 2000ad cover in almost seventeen years (http://www.2000ad.org/covers/2000ad/hires/178.jpg) not to feature any mention of Judge Dredd.

Apart from his face centred directly under the logo, obviously.

Cheers

Jim

12 issues later, this (http://www.2000ad.org/covers/2000ad/hires/1034.jpg) was the first cover in seventeen years not to feature any mention of Judge Dredd.

2000AD Featuring Dan Dare would be a nice thing to read :(

[quoteHope you noticed that the majority opinion here appears to be that the fantastic red and white card/badge logo you designed is the best to grace the cover of the comic, Steve.
[/quote]

Thanks, Soshie!

Really nice to know!

Steve

The new logo would be ok if the "AD" were always a different color that the "2000".

Incidentally, I actually really like the pye-01 design 2000 AD font on the masthead. It's been there a while now and I think it has a way of always looking clean and contemporary and compliments the red & white one nicely.

Also, I just saw that Brass Sun cover design, which is terrific! Nice one, pye-01!
If that's the way you're going with the branding, I think it works.

I must try and stay in the loop a bit more. I never get to see this stuff unless DJ Food mentions it (and he always does!).

I agree 100% Brass Sun is branded & designed perfectly. (hence me using it as an example earlier.

I might do a blog post on 'Branding' soon.

Quote from: robocook on 08 June, 2014, 05:49:34 PM
I actually really like the pye-01 design 2000 AD font on the masthead. It's been there a while now and I think it has a way of always looking clean and contemporary and compliments the red & white one nicely. Also, I just saw that Brass Sun cover design, which is terrific! Nice one, pye-01! If that's the way you're going with the branding, I think it works

As Pye points out in his post earlier on this thread, the early nineties version of the logo you designed is his personal favourite, and you can see that in the way the curves and colours of the current banner logo explicitly reference those of that iconic badge design to its left. From his comments on the podcast (http://2000ad.wordpress.com/2014/06/04/ecbt2000ad-podcast-keith-richardson-pye-parr/) I linked to, I think it's the way the current banner type has to be in sympathy with the badge design that's frustrated Pye's attempts to create something new, though - that's evident in the way the rectilinear Sci-fi Special type clashes with the smooth undulations of the badge logo beside it.

You can see how the idea of boxing the badge logo into a graphic element incorporating the issue number and date information would give him greater flexibility to experiment with more distinctive type designs. Patterning the trade dressing after the aforementioned US Brass Sun cover formatting makes sense too - you have to imagine part of Tharg's plans for the long term survival of 2000ad and The Megazine involves getting a US-printed version of them distributed by Diamond and onto the shelves of US stores. Establishing a strong common visual identity across all the titles would help that process.

Quote from: pye-01 on 06 June, 2014, 04:20:11 PM
hello everyone,
just thought I had to join in on this, as I inadvertently kicked off the topic of conversation and would like to elaborate a little bit on my/our thinking about the logos.

Firstly, thank you for all the comments, both positive and negative - I agree with many of the points being raised here, especially the 'this font will date quickly' stuff about the sci-fi special. Keep em coming - I'll take on board (within reason!) any input you guys have, and once I have something worth showing I'll post it up.

In general though - we're gonna keep the '2 logo' thing, although as I said on the podcast I would like to make the red 2000ad badge more of a brand for 2000ad publishing and products as a whole, (like DC or Marvel use their logos) rather than specifically as the logo for the Prog, so I want add it to the cover of the Megazine too, and keep it running on all the Gns and merchandise - Then have separate, text-based logos for each of the magazines.

In the roughs I've been working on the badge then becomes a bit smaller on the cover (about 1/2 the size it is currently) but would NEVER get covered by the art, as I also want to add the issue/date info under it, for ease of flicking through big boxes of comics etc. If you look at the covers for the US one-shots we put out recently (dredd: underbelly and brass sun) you'll see kinda where I'm going.

Much as I love the old logos too (especially the very first one, and the square from c. Prog 700 - when i started reading) I wont be reinstating them any time soon - although I'd like to tip my hat to them a little bit if possible, and have tried a few things out in this vein... I'll see how that goes though. I think maybe an all or nothing approach might be best?

anyway - thanks again, I hope when I finally do have something that I'm happy with that you chaps dig it too!
cheers
pye

Have you read the 'spines' thread?  ;)

Quote from: Proudhuff on 09 June, 2014, 11:43:28 AM

Quote from: pye-01 on 06 June, 2014, 04:20:11 PM
hello everyone,
just thought I had to join in on this, as I inadvertently kicked off the topic of conversation and would like to elaborate a little bit on my/our thinking about the logos.

Firstly, thank you for all the comments, both positive and negative - I agree with many of the points being raised here, especially the 'this font will date quickly' stuff about the sci-fi special. Keep em coming - I'll take on board (within reason!) any input you guys have, and once I have something worth showing I'll post it up.

In general though - we're gonna keep the '2 logo' thing, although as I said on the podcast I would like to make the red 2000ad badge more of a brand for 2000ad publishing and products as a whole, (like DC or Marvel use their logos) rather than specifically as the logo for the Prog, so I want add it to the cover of the Megazine too, and keep it running on all the Gns and merchandise - Then have separate, text-based logos for each of the magazines.

In the roughs I've been working on the badge then becomes a bit smaller on the cover (about 1/2 the size it is currently) but would NEVER get covered by the art, as I also want to add the issue/date info under it, for ease of flicking through big boxes of comics etc. If you look at the covers for the US one-shots we put out recently (dredd: underbelly and brass sun) you'll see kinda where I'm going.

Much as I love the old logos too (especially the very first one, and the square from c. Prog 700 - when i started reading) I wont be reinstating them any time soon - although I'd like to tip my hat to them a little bit if possible, and have tried a few things out in this vein... I'll see how that goes though. I think maybe an all or nothing approach might be best?

anyway - thanks again, I hope when I finally do have something that I'm happy with that you chaps dig it too!
cheers
pye

Have you read the 'spines' thread?  ;)

Meant to add this:





https://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php/topic,34474.0.html (https://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php/topic,34474.0.html)

Quote from: Bat King on 07 June, 2014, 05:41:29 PM
2000AD Featuring Dan Dare would be a nice thing to read :(

Can I just take this opportunity to go on record and say that in all incarnations of the character that I've ever read, I have found Dan Dare to be fairly rubbish.

As you were.

i liked mike carrolls :-[

Quote from: mogzilla on 09 June, 2014, 04:07:18 PM
i liked mike carrolls :-[

I'm sure Mr. Carroll's are very nice but what does that have to do with Dan Dare?

nothing at all, it was his logo. but for some reason the quote function didn't work for me!

I'm pleasantly shocked that Mr Parr would make any comments at all. That's why I love 2000ad

Quote from: pye-01 on 06 June, 2014, 04:20:11 PMIn the roughs I've been working on the badge then becomes a bit smaller on the cover (about 1/2 the size it is currently) but would NEVER get covered by the art, as I also want to add the issue/date info under it, for ease of flicking through big boxes of comics etc. If you look at the covers for the US one-shots we put out recently (dredd: underbelly and brass sun) you'll see kinda where I'm going.

Can it truly be........Hallelujah :thumbsup:

Quote from: Spaceghost on 09 June, 2014, 03:43:38 PM

Quote from: Bat King on 07 June, 2014, 05:41:29 PM
2000AD Featuring Dan Dare would be a nice thing to read :(

Can I just take this opportunity to go on record and say that in all incarnations of the character that I've ever read, I have found Dan Dare to be fairly rubbish.

As you were.

Noted and catalogued!

Mike Carrol's design is outstanding. Possibly work better as logo without the '000AD' curving away? But anyway, the Dredd-shaped 2 is awesome!!

While I love the original 2000AD logo it wouldn't cut it these days for the comic. Too dated. I would love it on a T-shirt though.

I'm with radiator. Can't stand the 'chrome' version. A logo of it's time. (See old computer game packaging.)

Current logo works very well. Clean, compact, distinctive, reduces well.

I haven't listened to the Pye Parr podcast yet but interesting to read the point about oddly weighted cover artwork when the comic only used the 2000AD logo.

My thinking was that the current design rationale was because of the way comics are crammed on shelves and that either the left or top edge is visible. Some pics from when we last discussed prog cover designs:

 (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/mycenaean/media/Various/2k-cover-test-1.jpg.html) (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/mycenaean/media/Various/2k-cover-test-2.jpg.html)

I think the current masthead is sufficiently neutral so that it doesn't fight with the logo and art and yes, it looks mature. But then again I really like some of the experiments Pye Parr has made on the year end progs because they are rather cutting edge and show some of the attitude that for me is what 2000AD is about (original, daring and not scared to take risks).

And I really like these Pye Parr ideas. I know they are concepts but they get my vote of approval. (Hope you don't mind me linking to them here Mr Parr.)

Those designs look stunning!

I really like that design in the white bar. Although having the white bar obscures the art a bit if they make the white opaque so you can see the art through it that would look aces!

I particularly like the left hand one. He should however add date and price into the logo area. Z

Quote from: SuperSurfer on 09 June, 2014, 10:44:29 PM


And I really like these Pye Parr ideas. I know they are concepts but they get my vote of approval. (Hope you don't mind me linking to them here Mr Parr.)

Personally I'm quite taken with the one second down on the right. If the new logo looked something like that I would be happy.

Quote from: ZenArcade on 09 June, 2014, 11:04:11 PM
I particularly like the left hand one. He should however add date and price into the logo area. Z

I like the top right hand one!

As you both say anything thematically along those lines would be very pleasing.

Number 1 is quite fetching

Quote from: sauchie X on 05 June, 2014, 06:18:50 PM

Art Editor extraordinaire, Simon Pye Parr, announced he's thinking of having a tinker with the 2000ad logo (the type one, rather than Steve Cook's red and white badge ident on the left hand side), and that the version of the logo seen on the latest Sci-fi Special was a kind of try out for the sort of thing he had in mind. What do y'all think (current logo below for comparison):

Those '2000AD' titles look great - bold, unique  :)
Other immediate thought is that anything requiring you to turn the page - or the room - through 90 degrees feels a bit perverse. But curious how others respond.

Quote from: 8-Ball on 09 June, 2014, 11:06:40 PM

Quote from: SuperSurfer on 09 June, 2014, 10:44:29 PM


And I really like these Pye Parr ideas. I know they are concepts but they get my vote of approval. (Hope you don't mind me linking to them here Mr Parr.)

Personally I'm quite taken with the one second down on the right. If the new logo looked something like that I would be happy.

Ooh, I really like the bottom right one that sort of bows inwards like the Netflix logo (I'm sure there's a proper design term for that!).

A different guest logo every week? Go mad...

Oh yes - bottom right is lovely too

Bottom right for me too.

I like the way it bows. Harkens back to the days of the bowed chrome logo.

Nice designs but they don't really evoke a futuristic vibe. If anything, I'm reminded of those spiky Celtic tattoos that everybody seems to have nowadays.

Nice for a special Slaine prog, not for a regular logo. Needs to be more 'computery' or something.

Echoing what a lot have said I go bottom right. Don't know what its is about the wonky, tiltie (technical term) 'AD' but it works for me. Really like this one... which is weird as I still think it will suffer from my main problem with the Summer Special logo in that it could well date quickly. Mind I guess that will always be the danger of trying to make something contemporary?

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 10 June, 2014, 08:18:13 AMMind I guess that will always be the danger of trying to make something contemporary?

Hmmm, looking for the full house: a logo that's firmly the past, evokes the future, and looks contemporary.  Rather you than me, Pye!

in a sense, I think Pye's plan removes 2000 AD from that problem of something being contemporary and dating quickly. If the 2000 AD fan badge becomes the over-riding brand, the magazine logos can be updated far more rapidly, without that impacting on 2000 AD's entire range of products. At that point, it's just the comic's logo that's being updated, rather than everything.

Of those logos, it's hard to tell without seeing them in front of me, but I'm also tending towards the lower-right one. It has more character than the straight examples, provides an interesting shape for art underneath, drawing the eye downwards, and also has the AD sideways; the AD looks a bit bulky when the characters are identical in size to the numerals.

As for the badge strip, I don't think the price needs to be there — that area's most helpful for collectors. The bar-code remains the best place for the price, and that could presumably now be increased in size somewhat, with the issue number moved.

Barcode & price big n easy to read on back cover? Easy to see n not messing up cover.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 10 June, 2014, 11:29:42 AM
As for the badge strip, I don't think the price needs to be there — that area's most helpful for collectors.

And spouses on a mission.  Gets round those awkward "it's got some big guy and an explosion on the front - is that the one?  I don't know, he could be an alien?  A robot, maybe?" phone conversations.

Quote from: Bat King on 10 June, 2014, 12:27:08 PM
Barcode & price big n easy to read on back cover? Easy to see n not messing up cover.

But then it'll mess up a space most often reserved for advertisers, who wouldn't be thrilled about having a bar-code across their ad.

The date and price just need to be a bit more visible and orientated to a horizontal plane. Z

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 10 June, 2014, 02:48:05 PM

Quote from: Bat King on 10 June, 2014, 12:27:08 PM
Barcode & price big n easy to read on back cover? Easy to see n not messing up cover.

But then it'll mess up a space most often reserved for advertisers, who wouldn't be thrilled about having a bar-code across their ad.

Not if the barcode & price were in a margin...

Plus advertisers in 2000Ad are almost 100% Rebellion Group... such as 2000AD, Abaddon Books, Rebellion, Solaris, etc, etc... so not a huge problem at all.

But it could stay on the front. Wouldn't matter too much either way so long as shop folk can read the price.

Will (or should) the Megazine get a new logo as well (in order to incorporate the 2000AD branding) or will it just get squished to the side?

Quote from: Bat King on 10 June, 2014, 04:39:53 PM
Not if the barcode & price were in a margin...

You can't put anything important too close to the edge of the page due to movement of the paper on the press and during the trimming process. There's an imaginary box 5-10mm in from the page edge beyond which type or any other important element must not stray.

If you think advertisers would wear having the bar code stuck on their (very expensive) back page advert, wouldn't every magazine do it? The bar code is hardly a thing of aesthetic beauty...

Cheers

Jim

I've seen people with a barcode on the the back of their neck!

Terminate them on sight: by order of Zenarskynet!

Look at what we have become.  Discussing where they should put the barcode.  ;)

Reminds me of those adverts they put out when the Prog started having them:

Ah such memories. I can remember letters about Dredd's demise as he was barefoot! Z

Quote from: ZenArcade on 11 June, 2014, 04:17:57 PM
Ah such memories. I can remember letters about Dredd's demise as he was barefoot! Z

Ha! Yeah, way to take all the fun out of a nice twist on the Abbey Road cover.

Quote from: Recrewt on 11 June, 2014, 03:46:38 PM
Reminds me of those adverts they put out when the Prog started having them:/[/img]

Cor, it's only just now occured to me that those early prog covers don't actually have barcodes on! They're just something you assume had always been around - I suppose they always have in my lifetime. When where they introduced to the UK?

Something about barcodes I learned recently - when they were first introduced, they were controversial because some religious people viewed them as 'the mark of the beast'.

Info: http://www.wired.com/2012/12/upc-mark-of-the-beast/ (http://www.wired.com/2012/12/upc-mark-of-the-beast/)

Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 11 June, 2014, 07:30:54 PM
When where they introduced to the UK?

I remember my dad explaining them and the laser scanner that read them to me at the supermarket in the early eighties, so they were definitely a new thing then (EDIT google says late seventies (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8295052.stm)). The first issue of 2000ad to feature a barcode (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=prog&page=profiles&choice=634) was in 1989.

Barcodes! Don't talk to me about barcodes......grrrrrrr. >:(


(I print thousands of them every year).

Quote from: radiator on 11 June, 2014, 07:41:00 PM
Something about barcodes I learned recently - when they were first introduced, they were controversial because some religious people viewed them as 'the mark of the beast'.

Info: http://www.wired.com/2012/12/upc-mark-of-the-beast/ (http://www.wired.com/2012/12/upc-mark-of-the-beast/)

RedLetterMedia talked about this recently in their Best of the Worst: Wheel of the Worst. They accidentally watched a Chinese-Christian-Anti-Captialist-Anti-Evolution-Anti-Fun video from god knows when. Quite bewildering really.

My old history teacher refused to put postcodes on his letters as it was a slippery slope towards the computerisation of society. Seemed far-fetched in 1983.

Quote from: SuperSurfer on 09 June, 2014, 10:44:29 PM

This.

Talking of logos, sauchies is Tikriting the piss! Z

You've been on the forum too long if your jokes are sinking that low Zen...

No offence meant Bat! Z

Quote from: ZenArcade on 14 June, 2014, 09:00:53 AM
Talking of logos, sauchies is Tikriting the piss! Z

isis what you did there mosul us wouldn't sink so low ;)

I don't know what you mean, Z's gag made me Fallujah off my chair laughing. He's a funny Basrah'd.

Nah, Bat's right, it was a shi'ite joke. Z