It's hard to tell; the only real stand-out strips in the last 25 or so (!) years have been John Smith's Cinnabar and Dave Gibbons' War Machine. Pretty much everything else has been kind of forgettable, unfortunately, with only the spin-off stuff providing any real innovation (nice work, Mr Rennie).
About the original Rogue's run, it's often been said that he jumped the shark after the Traitor General was killed - me, I believe that the readership was getting a bit too old for old-school macho war heroics anyway, and a bit more depth was required (provided by Cinnabar, but not really by the original Rogue's later resurgence in the prog.). As for Friday, well, after the Gibbons and Simpson story it just settled lazily back into these macho heroics and everybody seemed to lose interest very quickly.
My solution? Give Rogue back to John Smith. He wrote, as far as I'm concerned, the best original Rogue story ever and possibly the best Friday one too (even if it was just a one-off text story). Both of them had the required gun-related 2000ad action while still capturing the true horror of life in a world of permanent, all-pervading war. It's worth a shot, anyway, and if it doesn't work, no harm done.
I agree with your assessment regarding the best Rogue Trooper material, Jayzus, but I always thought of Smith's work on that strip and on Dredd as acts of narrative cross dressing. I can see how it might be fun for him to try on those metaphorical tarty dress and bright red lippy once or twice for a laugh, and he managed to teeter along in Wagner and Finley-Day's high heels for a wee while without toppling over; I'm just not sure he'd be interested in having the operation, and making that a full time arrangement.
Even if you're right, Sauchie, it was 20 years ago. Maybe he's ready for another go.
To answer your question; yes.
I too loved Cinnabar, and would love to see more Rogue Trooper by Smith.
To be honest the recent 'reboot' by Bryan Ruckley & Alberto Ponticelli (for IDW) ticked so many boxes I'd be remiss not to once again propose that Tharg transfers Ruckley to the Prog and continues this version of the G.I. instead.
Quote from: Richard on 24 June, 2014, 06:58:31 PM
Even if you're right, Sauchie, it was 20 years ago. Maybe he's ready for another go.
If working on a regular strip like
Rogue Trooper meant we saw more of Smith in the prog I'd be all in favour of it. The recent
Indigo Prime is as great fun and about a hundred times more inventive than anything I've read in
2000ad in recent memory.
Link's suggestion of persuading Ruckley to continue where he left off seems like a more realistic possibility for a regular series, but I suppose Smith might be interested in contributing to any revival in the same fashion as Wagner appears to be doing with
Dredd - occasional out-of-continuity short runs and one-off prestige stories with big name artists.
Quote from: Link Prime on 24 June, 2014, 07:00:08 PM
To answer your question; yes.
I too loved Cinnabar, and would love to see more Rogue Trooper by Smith.
To be honest the recent 'reboot' by Bryan Ruckley & Alberto Ponticelli (for IDW) ticked so many boxes I'd be remiss not to once again propose that Tharg transfers Ruckley to the Prog and continues this version of the G.I. instead.
`
Haven't seen that yet, me. Must get a hold of it
There was a time when I would have argued we should always have a blue-skinned infantryman of some description in the prog, even if it wasn't necessarily the original Rogue. However, I would generally argue against flashback stories, however well written (true, Cinnabar was specifically titled a Nu-Earth Flashback and was utterly superb, but I'd see that as the exception rather than the rule.) As such, I don't think there's much more mileage in the original incarnation. Ironically, the G.I. you could actually do something with is Fr1day, but it's been so long since he was in the prog, and despite a number of excellent stories in the Steve White era, he's not well-remembered.
For me, the key elements of Rogue are isolation, a clear mission and the bio-chips (with the fact he's unencumbered whilst everyone else is in atmosphere-suits as an added bonus.) Those are the things that make the series unique – get those right and you've got something.
As for John Smith - more Smith in the prog in any capacity works for me.
Rogue always had a built in self-limiting premise that ensured his obsolescence so somewhat like Fiends of Eastern Front, Ace Garp or Sam Slade I never saw it as an erstwhile prog necessity that had not fulfilled its original purpose, but, if its worth another bash, give it to Brian Ruckley - IDW are no longer using him and he deserves to follow through with whatever plans he had.
The ball was well and truely dropped after 'War machine'....a golden opportunity to revitalise Rogue was lost. I think sleeping dogs should be let lie, leave Rogue to fond memories. His story has been told.
Only if two conditions are met: 1) Script by John Smith and 2) Art by Darren Douglas.
Its worth saying before I start that I'm far from the biggest Rogue fan on the board. Never really got on with the original run and while I enjoy Cinnabar its far from John Smith's best work. I'd always welcome more John Smith in the Prog, nah I'd love to have more John Smith BUT if that is to happen it seems a shame to shackle his magnificent imagination to a concept like Rogue Trooper (though of course Mr Smith will be the only one to say if he would really feel shackled by it).
John Smith creates wondrous worlds, why have him work in anyone else's?
Also have to be honest the most fun I've had with Rogue, possibly outside War Machine which I really enjoyed, was the Gordon Rennie stuff. That really worked for me but he seems to realise (again I'm sure if he could be bothered he'll correct me there!) that Rogue is about the least interesting thing on Nu Earth.
It's a genuine wonder to me that so many people here think John's creative ambitions would include returning to work he did on a house character - what? - about 25 years ago near the the beginning of his career. You must have been reading a very different writer's work than I have, all these years.
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 24 June, 2014, 07:26:55 PM
Rogue always had a built in self-limiting premise that ensured his obsolescence so somewhat like Fiends of Eastern Front, Ace Garp or Sam Slade I never saw it as an erstwhile prog necessity that had not fulfilled its original purpose, but, if its worth another bash, give it to Brian Ruckley - IDW are no longer using him and he deserves to follow through with whatever plans he had.
This. I liked what I read of IDW Rogue, would love to see it continue in the prog.
Quote from: GordonR on 24 June, 2014, 10:06:45 PM
It's a genuine wonder to me that so many people here think John's creative ambitions would include returning to work he did on a house character - what? - about 25 years ago near the the beginning of his career. You must have been reading a very different writer's work than I have, all these years.
Fair point - though he does do a few Dredds now and again,and he's even done a Robo-hunter. So you never know, but it's probably just wishful thinking on my part.
What's always amazed me is that he wasn't propelled rapidly to the top of the US market years ago; but that's another thread. (This one, specifically. http://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php/topic,40355.0.html (http://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php/topic,40355.0.html))
Quote from: GordonR on 24 June, 2014, 10:06:45 PM
You must have been reading a very different writer's work than I have, all these years.
Aye, Nu Earth doesn't offer much scope for the occult horror and weird sexuality that have characterised most of his work.
Cinnabar seemed like Smith compromising by finding a way to work some of the body horror which interests him into a story featuring Rogue. It's not a future war strip; it's
Beyond Thunderdome directed by Cronenberg.
Quote from: GordonR on 24 June, 2014, 10:06:45 PM
It's a genuine wonder to me that so many people here think John's creative ambitions would include returning to work he did on a house character - what? - about 25 years ago near the the beginning of his career. You must have been reading a very different writer's work than I have, all these years.
I wouldn't in a million years think that John Smith would ever come back to Rogue Trooper. When I say Smith/Douglas, I'm thinking more of a fantasy line up. Emphasis on the
fantasy part.
Quote from: Link Prime on 24 June, 2014, 07:00:08 PM
To be honest the recent 'reboot' by Bryan Ruckley & Alberto Ponticelli (for IDW) ticked so many boxes I'd be remiss not to once again propose that Tharg transfers Ruckley to the Prog and continues this version of the G.I. instead.
If wishes were fishes...
I'm guessing the fact that the IDW stuff didn't do well means it wouldn't get picked up. Is it even possible to get the writer/artist to transfer over to the prog (not sure how that works, since it was done originally for IDW)?
We'd all cast nets
I haven't read the IDW Rogue but if there's the kernel of an interesting idea, why not try? I agree that nothing interesting has been done with Rogue since John Smith work (that's before many on the forum were born). War Machine was excellent; but the Friday reinvention quickly deteriotated into a farce.
The spin off's have been great, in particular the recent Jaegir, perhaps it is best to work around Rogue and utilise the future war for other charachters and settings with Rogue in the Moby Dick role, there in the background, but alluded to more than seen. Z
To be honest, I'm not a fan of "Kung Fu" type stories (or "The Littlest Hobo", if you prefer).
The idea of a character wandering around solving problems no longer cuts it.
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 25 June, 2014, 08:03:38 AM
To be honest, I'm not a fan of "Kung Fu" type stories (or "The Littlest Hobo", if you prefer)
The Fugitive. Original flavour Rogue's looking for the deformed criminal who murdered his family.
The Ruckley/Ponticelli series for IDW was excellent, I'd also love for it to continue in some way, even if it ended up in the Prog.
The problem with all the spin-offs is that there's still this big, unanswered question in the background - what happened to Rogue? We know that the original is (currently) dead, we've seen his battered bio-chip and we know that he was used as a basis for other clones. We know that Friday disappeared into a black hole after engaging on a was with religious fanatics. I think if the series were to come back, it would need to draw a line under the uncertainty in the same way that Wagner did when he revived Johnny Alpha. Use Rogue's bio-chip, or bring Friday back from the black hole and then build the series from there. The IDW reboot just adds another Rogue Trooper to the already-complicated mix.
Nice to see some love for some of the Friday stories in the thread. There was certainly a dip after 'War Machine', but it did pick up after that. I'd love to see the Tales of Nu Earth series continued to the end of Friday's run.
Quote from: Martintds on 24 June, 2014, 07:33:03 PM
His story has been told.
And because of this I say no.
Dunk!
Al Ewing had an amazing spin on the Rogue Trooper story, which he mentioned back in a Thought Bubble panel around 2 years ago. Maybe its on film somewhere - it was VERY funny.
But seriously, I'd love to see Rogue brought back to life - but because of a good story, not because of fond memories.
Quote from: glassstanley on 25 June, 2014, 10:40:45 AM
The problem with all the spin-offs is that there's still this big, unanswered question in the background - what happened to Rogue? We know that the original is (currently) dead, we've seen his battered bio-chip and we know that he was used as a basis for other clones. We know that Friday disappeared into a black hole after engaging on a was with religious fanatics. I think if the series were to come back, it would need to draw a line under the uncertainty
I'm not sure it would. That was the mistake nineties editorial made; imagining that no-one could handle the concept of more than one take on the same character, and that what everyone wanted was a story that treated the strip's chequered publication history as literal truth. The strip's had seven reboots that I'm aware of; any story misguidedly trying to weave all that into a seamless narrative would be as tiresome and stretch reader credulity as much as the early chapters of the Old Testament that just list how Aaron begat Boaz, who begat Caleb, who lived 600 years, and who begat Daniel ...
Let sleeping Rogues lie.
The GReenie droid's outing into Nuearth was the way to go with this world IMHO
I really want to see more from Brian Ruckley. I really hope that Tharg is at least considering the possibility of getting him in the prog.
Certainly hope not. For me Rogue has as much of a future in the Prog as Harlem Heroes.
Quote from: glassstanley on 25 June, 2014, 10:40:45 AM
The problem with all the spin-offs is that there's still this big, unanswered question in the background - what happened to Rogue?
Genuinely couldn't care less about that and think trying to turn it into a major plot point is a big part of what was crap about later Rogue. Along with the dreadful writing.
Personally, I really enjoyed both The 86ers and the first Jaegir story but I suppose that's more down to them being interesting, fun stories that just happen to be set in the same fictional universe rather than any direct connection to Rogue. The last thing I'd want is for the next Jaegir story to end with somebody producing a mysterious looking biochip. Unless it's Major Magnam's.
I've given Brian Tharg's email address, with TMO's blessing. What happens next is up to them.
Quote from: sauchie on 25 June, 2014, 12:36:03 PM
Quote from: glassstanley on 25 June, 2014, 10:40:45 AM
The problem with all the spin-offs is that there's still this big, unanswered question in the background - what happened to Rogue? We know that the original is (currently) dead, we've seen his battered bio-chip and we know that he was used as a basis for other clones. We know that Friday disappeared into a black hole after engaging on a was with religious fanatics. I think if the series were to come back, it would need to draw a line under the uncertainty
I'm not sure it would. That was the mistake nineties editorial made; imagining that no-one could handle the concept of more than one take on the same character, and that what everyone wanted was a story that treated the strip's chequered publication history as literal truth. The strip's had seven reboots that I'm aware of; any story misguidedly trying to weave all that into a seamless narrative would be as tiresome and stretch reader credulity as much as the early chapters of the Old Testament that just list how Aaron begat Boaz, who begat Caleb, who lived 600 years, and who begat Daniel ...
I would have previously been in favour of tying-up all loose ends (a lot of continuity stitching was already carried out, quite neatly in my opinion, by John Tomlinson with the latter
Tor Cyan stories), and then continue with either Cyan or Friday as the eponymous 'Rogue Trooper'.
However, my opinion has since changed after reading (and very much enjoying) Brian Ruckley's modern reboot.
It's a fresh take on the core original concept, with well conceived updates- everything from the G.I. equipment's 'modern' upgrades to explaining that a soldier named 'Helm' wasn't just destined to become a living helmet (all the Biochips real names are never mentioned- they've been nicknamed by Rogue, Indeed 'Rogue' himself has been nicknamed on the field).
It's a testament to how successful this iteration was that I'd quite willingly forget everything up to 'No Such Place', and go with Ruckley's version.
Quote from: GordonR on 25 June, 2014, 12:56:02 PM
I've given Brian Tharg's email address, with TMO's blessing. What happens next is up to them.
Bleedingcool have just reported that IDW's cancelled 'Rogue Trooper' will continue in 2000AD.
Source: Gordon Rennie
Quote from: The Cosh on 25 June, 2014, 12:54:22 PM
For me Rogue has as much of a future in the Prog as Harlem Heroes
Like Nemesis, he's one of the comic's signature characters, and will keep appearing on all those group shot Special/end of year prog covers until Tharg ceases publishing. As such, he's doomed to be rebooted and revived by every new editor/writer who comes along. The only reason Nemesis hasn't received the same treatment is because Pat Mills is still kicking arses and taking names - if his next prostate exam goes badly we'll all be reading stories set inbetween Nemesis books one and two by Alec Worley and Jon Davis Hunt.
Quote from: GordonR on 25 June, 2014, 12:56:02 PM
I've given Brian Tharg's email address, with TMO's blessing. What happens next is up to them.
Fingers crossed!
Quote from: Link Prime on 25 June, 2014, 01:05:24 PM
Quote from: GordonR on 25 June, 2014, 12:56:02 PM
I've given Brian Tharg's email address, with TMO's blessing. What happens next is up to them.
Bleedingcool have just reported that IDW's cancelled 'Rogue Trooper' will continue in 2000AD.
Source: Gordon Rennie
Jeez, don't even joke... unless you weren't... I'm not going to dip my toes in there to check.
I should point out that, if he does pitch something, it might not necessarily be Rogue. Readers sometimes like to pigeon-hole creators, but he's a professional author with plenty of ideas of his own, I'm sure.
Some interesting comments on this topic. I tend to agree that the original Rogue idea is a bit old-fashioned now. I do think that there is still potential in the character but this obviously requires someone to have some ideas about it.
This reminds me of Durham Red, a character who seemed to have stalled a bit and then Dan Abnett got hold of her and created a whole new saga.
Now there's wisdom. I thought Abnett did a great job with DR. Z
Enjoyed the IDW Rogue & really enjoyed Jaegir, but don't find the prospect of a return to the prog very appealing. Or likely...
Throwing my hat in the ring, Rogue was always a character I really enjoyed and the telephone directories are great fun but I agree the concept of a lone war hero fighting an endless war A-team style is a bit outdated. War Machine was an interesting idea but the later Friday stories were pretty forgettable as it just seemed to go back to the wandering storyline.
Considering how in tune most readers are nowadays with the concept of war stories, a massive jump into the future may be a possible outlet for the Rogue Trooper universe. I enjoyed Jaegir but didnt get on with The 86-ers as Jaegir offered a story from the 'baddies' perspective and felt like a fresher idea.
The future jump could see whole armies of cloned soldiers battling it out and the high commands working out a new concept to get the advantage over the other side.
QuoteThat really worked for me but he seems to realise (again I'm sure if he could be bothered he'll correct me there!) that Rogue is about the least interesting thing on Nu Earth.
Maybe that's why
Cinnabar worked so well? Rogue took a back seat for a while (he had AIDS, for feck's sake) and let others do the hard work. And the chips' interactions with the Souther deserters was absolutely outstanding.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 26 June, 2014, 06:45:33 PM
QuoteThat really worked for me but he seems to realise (again I'm sure if he could be bothered he'll correct me there!) that Rogue is about the least interesting thing on Nu Earth.
Maybe that's why Cinnabar worked so well? Rogue took a back seat for a while (he had AIDS, for feck's sake) and let others do the hard work. And the chips' interactions with the Souther deserters was absolutely outstanding.
Including maybe the dirtiest line in 2k history! The bit that really stuck with me from Cinnibar is that Souther kid that Rogue enters the town with (the only one of the squad that started the story to have survived to this point) and the moment when the Ciinnibar authorities drag him off to his death soon after their arrival - he's crying and pleading with Rogue to help him after all they've been through and the cold blue bastard doesn't offer a single word in his defence. He just doesn't really care if the kid lives or dies. Really drove home the point that Rogue isn't human, and (briefly) made him a far more interesting character.
QuoteIncluding maybe the dirtiest line in 2k history!
Yep, it truly was breathtaking, that line - from the Sex Prog through Money Shots to Valkyries, I don't think anyone has out-filthed that one speech balloon.
Also I think it was the first mention of the ganja in 2000ad - One of the deserters was one of those old-fashioned Nam-style stoner-soldiers, called (just in case you weren't sure) Reefer.
I forgot about Rogue blanking the guy's cries for help! I suppose Bagman's [spoiler]creatively psychotic murder spree[/spoiler] overtook it in my mind. This cold-bloodedness on Rogue's part was indeed an interesting development - he was more than happy to take on the same aggressors when his own life was threatened.
It was an aspect of Rogue that was again touched on by Mark Millar in that alien torture chamber one-off. Easily among his best stuff for the prog, where again Rogue was sort of a secondary character; seen through the eyes of another protagonist (a mutilated Souther prisoner in this case). I liked it, anyway.
I reiterate with the greatest respect, the future potential stories need not involve Rogue as a protaginist or for that matter a charachter extant in the story. He can be alluded to or blithly ignored. The concept is all that matters to me. Hence my pretty much untrammeled joy in Jaegir. If the problem (in this case the Rogue Trooper story) is too large to face front on....well work around it, therein may be the solution. Z
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 26 June, 2014, 09:26:30 PM
This cold-bloodedness on Rogue's part was indeed an interesting development - he was more than happy to take on the same aggressors when his own life was threatened.
Funny enough, I just re-read Cinnabar yesterday (picked up Vol. 4 of the Tales of Nu-Earth compendium) and I viewed that scene in a different way from you chaps. I don't see Rogue as cold-blooded or uncaring – it's more that he's very ill, physically and mentally, and simply not functioning properly. The Rogue we know would try to do something – he's always been the conscience of the team, whereas the biochips are the single-minded, uncaring ones – but he's in such an awful state, a rotting, shambling shadow of himself, that I don't think Blaire's pleas even really register with him. He's too busy coping with the revelation that his suffering was orchestrated for the purposes of gambling. Whilst I think Cinnabar is an excellent piece of writing and a great story, I remember being quite sad to see the awful state Rogue's in for the first two thirds of the tale. It's not until he's inside Charybdis that we get the Rogue we know – in command and fighting back.
The dirties line in the prog?.....Oooooooohhhhhhh. Are we talking a proper Tuckerism here?
Anyway, I have limited exposure to Rogue, but have enjoyed the majority of what i've read (Cinnabar and a few one off's). Honestly, maybe he does have a place, even if it's only as a season one-shot rather than an ongoing story line....
I enjoy the design and ideas behind the conflict on Nu Earth as much as anyone, but setting a story in that fictional world without making use of a visual as striking and widely recognised as the blue guy with the bleached mohawk and spooky eyes seems like pointless self abnegation. I'd agree that Rogue's individual personality barely registers, but it's the relationship between him and the chips which made the original stories entertaining.
We're all talking as if writing Rogue Trooper is rocket science, but it's just a war story, many thousands of which have been written - quite a few in comic form. Because it's been so many years since anyone wrote a great Rogue Trooper story, I personally couldn't care less whether he sees print again. However, it's one of the few iconic 2000ad strips not tied to an established writer (unlike Slaine or Dredd), so it's doomed to come back.
Established 2000ad writers don't generally seem to want to write house characters, and Rogue Trooper's checkered publication history gives it the look of a poisoned chalice, so if it's to make a return it would probably be in the hands of an up and coming scribe. The best I think we could hope for is if said aspiring writer was paired with an A list artist who'd always wanted to draw the character. I did think using the strip as a kind of Future Shock or 3hriller format with revolving writer and artist teams might work, but that would be awkward to collect as a trade.
Quote from: Hawkmonger on 27 June, 2014, 01:37:43 PM
The dirties line in the prog?.....Oooooooohhhhhhh. Are we talking a proper Tuckerism here?
Well... without the swearing, but yeah; John Smith managed to allude to [spoiler]incest, paedophilia and violent oral sex[/spoiler] in just two short sentences.
I like Sauchie's idea about a 3hriller-style format. Wasn't it sort of tried a few years ago, with
Legends of the Rogue Trooper?
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 27 June, 2014, 06:22:14 PM
Wasn't (a 3hriller-style format) sort of tried a few years ago, with Legends of the Rogue Trooper?
That must have been during my own re-gening period away from Tharg's womb. I thought a war journal format might allow lots of different types of narratives of different lengths and tone to be told, while still meaning a collected edition read like a cohesive whole, but if they've already tried that approach it probably didn't work out that way.
To be honest it wasn't really like that; it was pretty much more Rogue Trooper in his standard format. With the new name I'd hoped for a new take on the story but it wasn't really.
Your idea sounds better; I wouldn't mind seeing that
Rogue Trooper is, for me, the dullest of the classic strips. I really don't know how you'd make it interesting for modern readers.
It has indeed been pointed out earlier in the thread that Rogue taken by himself is a fairly anodyne charachter, but the addition of the chips, nu earth and the traitor general made for a great run in the early progs. It did indeed lose its way with the horst, hit storylines and completely lost it after the rather excellent War Machine.
I still think there is a gap in the prog for a real insightful 'future war' story. Some of the most memorable stories in 2000AD such as Bad Company and, dare I say, Glimmer Rats have been based on this topic. They have to my mind dealt brilliantly with the insanity and disconnect of war.
I feel a modern audience (given the superfluity of strife in the world at the moment) would be open to a storyline which examines war and internecine struggle in an unbiased manner, exploring the motivations of both sets of protagonists in situations of this nature.
Now you could argue start off afresh with an entirely new story, but Jaegir attempts in a fashion to explore the motivations of the 'bad' guys in the Rogue universe. It is surley possible to enhance this and craft a tale encompassing this war and the nasty repercussions which would invariably stem from it. Z
I do think Rogue needs to grow beyond its 'Vietnam in space' roots and tell war stories that are more relevant to modern conflicts. It's a bit problematic when real world militaries are more high tech then the Southers and Norts.
Overall I like Rogue Trooper, conceptually. But the execution has always been a bit spotty overall.
Quote from: GordonR on 24 June, 2014, 10:06:45 PM
It's a genuine wonder to me that so many people here think John's creative ambitions would include returning to work he did on a house character - what? - about 25 years ago near the the beginning of his career. You must have been reading a very different writer's work than I have, all these years.
I didn't realise that working on house characters was an uninspiring job.
Quote from: The Adventurer on 28 June, 2014, 11:46:12 PM
I do think Rogue needs to grow beyond its 'Vietnam in space' roots and tell war stories that are more relevant to modern conflicts. It's a bit problematic when real world militaries are more high tech then the Southers and Norts.
Overall I like Rogue Trooper, conceptually. But the execution has always been a bit spotty overall.
I can't really think of any instances where the real world is more high-tech than those in Rogue. I never took it as specifically Vietnam in space either, just an amalgam of every major conflict of the last few hundred years.
Never really got off on RT - pretty generic future war story, with a good idea in the biochips. The initial Traitor General storyline limped on for way too long.
Bad Company was weird, but brought a real spark to the future war genre.
Bring back the rat pack - in space!
Quote from: Steve Green on 29 June, 2014, 09:54:08 AM
Quote from: The Adventurer on 28 June, 2014, 11:46:12 PM
I do think Rogue needs to grow beyond its 'Vietnam in space' roots and tell war stories that are more relevant to modern conflicts
I never took it as specifically Vietnam in space either, just an amalgam of every major conflict of the last few hundred years.
TordelBack made a really great point regarding Elaine; it isn't set in Iron Age Ireland, the story takes place
in myth. Similarly, Gerry Finley-Day's Rogue Trooper work appears to take place in a future modeled entirely upon the British boys' war comics he'd been writing up until that point. That means the inspiration is primarily WWII, but the Great War and the US Civil War are all in there too.
Will Simpson says he took visual inspiration for War Machine from the Nam films which were popular at the time, but the rest of the Friday material is just generic fantasy quest stuff with a character who looks like a soldier at its centre.
Rogue Trooper is Blackhawk dyed blue- soulsucked eternal warrior lost on the other side of a blackhole.
He has always been a weird one for me Rogue
Always the 'almost' story
I remember as a kid Johnny Alpha ruled all..even preferred him over Dredd who came in a respectable 2nd..then maybe Ro-Busters/Robo Hunter/Nemesis The Warlock
Rogue was always more of a prog filler for me
I didn't dislike it..and always read it..just never really jumped out of the page at me
I lump it in with Mean Arena
I just don't know what you'd do with the character if he returned.
If it's taken back to re-telling stories of the Traitor General era, I'm not sure how satisfying that would be, and various other angles have already been tried, with Hitman, Friday, Tor Cyan etc.
I never enjoyed Rogue less than any other notable strips and its appeal to me were the many twisted apparati of the war machine, Rogue and the chips, the great collection of secondary characters and being the best lookin' future-war strip ever drawn.
Quote from: Steve Green on 29 June, 2014, 12:21:13 PM
If it's taken back to re-telling stories of the Traitor General era, I'm not sure how satisfying that would be, and various other angles have already been tried, with Hitman, Friday, Tor Cyan etc
None of those stories were particularly well written, neebs. As the praise here for
Cinnabar demonstrates, when the strip is written well it doesn't need an overarching narrative or quest structure to succeed.
It's just a war story - I'm not sure why various writers seem to have felt the need to turn it into a soap opera or a fantasy strip. You've already got a fair bit of leeway to tell different kinds of stories within the bounds of a genre which comprises works as diverse as
Where Eagles Dare, Catch-22, The Red Badge Of Courage, Full Metal Jacket, The Naked and The Dead, Kelly's Heroes, A Matter Of Life And Death, R-Point, Evelyn Waugh's
Scoop, Outpost, The Third Man, and
Black Hawk Down ... even before you consider the added layer of entertainment and novelty provided by the sci-fi aspects and supporting cast which
JOE SOAP mentions.
Oh, and when I referenced a story called
Elaine above, I meant
Slaine. I'm blaming the tablet.
The point is well made: when the writers stick to the theme and narrative, there is literally centuries (if not millenia) of fact and fiction from which to base storylines. The levening of the theme by the addition of 'pretty much' unnecessary embelishment is not needed. Charlies war showed what could be done writing about the daily, weekly, monthly, yearly travails of only one side in a war. With the emphasis on both parties to the conflict and indeed the side actors who benefit therefrom, there is surley meat and bread for a good writing/art team or indeed teams? There is the potential to entertain and, dare I say,to educate people on the subject. Z
Quote from: sauchie on 29 June, 2014, 01:00:47 PM
Oh, and when I referenced a story called Elaine above, I meant Slaine. I'm blaming the tablet(s).
Quote from: ZenArcade on 29 June, 2014, 01:19:56 PM
With the emphasis on both parties to the conflict and indeed the side actors who benefit therefrom, there is surley meat and bread for a good writing/art team or indeed teams? There is the potential to entertain and, dare I say,to educate people on the subject. Z
We do seem to be doing a lot of war at the moment. You'd think
somebody would want to write a story about it. I think the problem might be that folk imagine you have to believe war's brilliant and a good idea in order to write an entertaining story about it, or that you must write a preachy condemnation of the industrialised slaughter of a generation's bravest and most able if you reckon war's probably not worth the effort, on balance.
Paths Of Glory, The Dirty Dozen, Cross Of Iron, Saving Private Ryan, and countless others manage to have it both ways, reveling in lurid depiction of the actualite of combat, while ruefully shaking their head at man's folly. I'd read
Paths Of Glory in space and with added scenes of frag grenades being lobbed into Norty machine gun nests, just as long as Rob Williams was writing it and Henry Flint was drawing it.
If you look at the writing of early Dredd or Stront, Rogue isnt that much different - he should hve developed along the same lines - the idea of a cloned killer should allow him all kind sof interesting angles - Dredd has em, but would you have suspected half of them from the first years run?
The problem is how many times can you reboot unsuccessfully... its a shame, as i think the setting AND the character have loads of potential -those orignal strips are as much of a firm basis as the first few yeears of Dredd were... but teh ball was fumbled
I hated the rogue stories that involved shooting a machine gun whilst spouting technobabble.
I really hate technobabble.
They could do a whole series out of corrupt 'Southers' engineering the War and blaming everything on the 'Norts'; at least then it would mirror current real-life events.
Cheers
I was firmly in the 'it's been done to death again and again just let it did already ' camp till the IDW series came out. More akin to Rogue than Friday it still managed to feel like a cleaner break than War Machine whilst keeping more of the core of the original Rogue that Friday dumped. (Does that make sense? It does in my head) Kick IDW into renewing it or reprint it and then continue it in toof gets my vote