Antonio Barreti is a genius and its high time 2000ad recognised the Italian master who influenced generations to come. I can't believe how close his characters came to appearing in Prog 1.
All this is of course utter tripe but GOLDTIGER is a very very funny fictional history of a comic strip that never was. I loved it. Especially the prose pages that bridged missing pages in the reprint.
I don't want to reveal to much but they've managed to blend reality and fiction by including references and quotes from some 2000ad stalwarts.
Well done for publishing this 2000ad.
Looking forward to picking this up. Looking forward to what the forum thinks too. As its 2000AD branded do the regulars (especially those that pick up both Prog and Meg) view it as part of the 2000AD canon?
I liked it well enough. Nicely put together and funny. Just not sure that it's 20 quid funny.
Quote from: BPP on 15 March, 2016, 03:31:30 PM
Looking forward to picking this up. Looking forward to what the forum thinks too. As its 2000AD branded do the regulars (especially those that pick up both Prog and Meg) view it as part of the 2000AD canon?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "the 2000AD canon." One of the great things about 2000AD is that the stories all exist in their own worlds [bugger off Robin] so, if it's published under the same imprint it's published under the same imprint.
In general, I'm a bit burned out on meta-textual stuff like this in all media. I used to find it marvelously clever and witty but, in recent years, it tends to do my box in and I adopt a knee-jerk assumption that it's a lazy excuse for not being able to come up with anything inherently interesting. I accept that this is completely unfair to the creators of any given work which I haven't actually read yet and Al Ewing's Christmas Dredd from a few years ago is a clear case of this assumption being wrong.
On the book itself, I'm torn. I've long been keen on the idea of Rebellion giving original GNs a try so I'd like it to succeed. Unfortunately, I haven't liked anything Guy Adams has written for the Prog (oh, that Max Normal story was alright I suppose) so I'm unlikely to splash out twenty quid for this.
Quote from: matty_ae on 15 March, 2016, 02:43:35 PM
Antonio Barreti is a genius and its high time 2000ad recognised the Italian master who influenced generations to come. I can't believe how close his characters came to appearing in Prog 1.
All this is of course utter tripe but GOLDTIGER is a very very funny fictional history of a comic strip that never was. I loved it. Especially the prose pages that bridged missing pages in the reprint.
I don't want to reveal to much but they've managed to blend reality and fiction by including references and quotes from some 2000ad stalwarts.
Well done for publishing this 2000ad.
Wait I'm confused - is that article in the Meg all made up then?
It's part of the narrative would be one way of putting it.
Quote from: The Cosh on 16 March, 2016, 12:31:39 PM
Quote from: BPP on 15 March, 2016, 03:31:30 PM
Looking forward to picking this up. Looking forward to what the forum thinks too. As its 2000AD branded do the regulars (especially those that pick up both Prog and Meg) view it as part of the 2000AD canon?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "the 2000AD canon." One of the great things about 2000AD is that the stories all exist in their own worlds [bugger off Robin] so, if it's published under the same imprint it's published under the same imprint.
In general, I'm a bit burned out on meta-textual stuff like this in all media. I used to find it marvelously clever and witty but, in recent years, it tends to do my box in and I adopt a knee-jerk assumption that it's a lazy excuse for not being able to come up with anything inherently interesting. I accept that this is completely unfair to the creators of any given work which I haven't actually read yet and Al Ewing's Christmas Dredd from a few years ago is a clear case of this assumption being wrong.
On the book itself, I'm torn. I've long been keen on the idea of Rebellion giving original GNs a try so I'd like it to succeed. Unfortunately, I haven't liked anything Guy Adams has written for the Prog (oh, that Max Normal story was alright I suppose) so I'm unlikely to splash out twenty quid for this.
This ^^^
Strangely enough Cosh has managed to put my mixed feelings and thoughts into a coherent argument, and that's without lending him a tenner...
2000AD Cannon is a bit of a clusmy term but I guess what I mean is that I view the Meg and 2000AD as a combined body of work / required reading. A bit like the many who buy IDW from a complusion rather actual enjoyment. Does it make anyone more likely to buy it because it has the 2000AD badge on it rather than just be a Rebellion GN? It probably does to me (hello marketing men, milk me now) same was as I bought something like Xpresso simply because it had the 2000AD tag on it (not that I didn't enjoy it, it just tipped my hand so to speak).
Or to ask the question another way - would anyone have been more like to have bought Robbie Burns: Witch Hunter had it a 2000AD badge on it?
I must admit, I do quite like the look of this. I see it's on the 2000ad shop, but will this be available at, say, Forbidden Planet?
Would like to take a butchers at it, before purchasing..
Personally I don't consider Goldtiger to be part of the 2000AD canon. It was created before 2000AD existed, it's not by any 2000AD writers or artists and it hasn't appeared in 2000AD, the brief feature in the current Meg not withstanding. But from what that showed, I'm actually not that interested.
Being published by Rebellion would make me more likely to buy something than I otherwise would be though.
I get what BPP is saying, I will be picking it up. I see it as much part of 2000AD as Metalzoic or Scarlet Traces, in its 'sphere of influence' to use a bad phrase.
I like the premise and the look so Ill give it whirl.
Quote from: Magnetica on 16 March, 2016, 11:23:15 PM
Personally I don't consider Goldtiger to be part of the 2000AD canon. It was created before 2000AD existed, it's not by any 2000AD writers or artists and it hasn't appeared in 2000AD
Was it created before 2000AD existed? Isn't that just part of the made-up history of this whole newly-made old-looking comic, to pretend it's an artefact from the past when really it's like Gunheads (or whatever it was in that prog a few years back that had the orriginal 2000AD logo on it)?
It's all fictional.
Sorry if this a bit of a rant and at the risk of being accused of not getting the joke...
...the article in the Meg, the ads I have seen, the description on the 2000AD shop and other retailers' websites all imply that this a strip from the 60's that was never published until now. And it is all so plausible. At no point did I guess it was a spoof, and to to be a successful spoof, surely at some point it needs to be clear it is a spoof. I only realised what it was after Dash Decent's post and a quick internet search.
Or to look at it another way, if I had bought it on the basis that it was a long lost classic that was now being presented, only to find out it was actually nothing of the sort, I might, just possibly be a little bit miffed. Especially if it is actually by an author I don't particular like - it's ok if he has retrieved the original, reformatted it and added text notes explaining the origin, quite another if he actually wrote it. Accuracy of product description , advertised standards and all that...but let's not go there.
Understanding what it actually is, gives a different spin of the question of whether it is in the 2000AD canon and I guess it is closer to being so. To me the more interesting question is why is it being published as a GN rather than being serialised in the Prog and the Meg? Is it:
a) because that is all just part of the conceit
b) because it isn't really reflective of what we get in the Prog or the Meg now
c) because it isn't actual that good
d) it will be serialised later.
I'm hoping it is a).
Well this is all a furore!
From what I can remember is that it started as a kickstarter project, was reported as such with no meta-level stuff going on (ie it was 'by' two modern talents) and was a nostalgic re-imaginging of an old type of strip. Its pretty clear that it looks very close to something like Wally Woods 'Cannon'. I imagine this is where to GN format was settled at.
Then Rebellion got involved and were stated as starting to publish their own line of GN with this work.
Then it went dark until the PR for this 2016 release came out.
Who knows when the 20000AD/Rebellion aspect got merged into it all, maybe it was, as Demon Nic puts it, 'ALL just cheese.'
Personally I don't really know why you'd get angry about being 'duped' by PR... Did you enjoy it has to be the main criteria.
I completely missed the original Kickstarter campaign for Goldtiger so when it was announced that Rebellion were publishing their first original graphic novel I admit I fell for the 'official' line that Goldtiger was a long-lost relic from the Swinging '60s hook, line & sinker and was quite excited to read Goldtiger so eagerly put it on pre-order.
That illusion was shattered a week or so before publication when a couple of tweets by Duncan Fegredo and Sean Philips alerted me to the fact that there had long ago been a Kickstarter campaign. Checking out the campaign details for Goldtiger's KS finally let the cat out of the bag for me and revealed the (unwelcome) truth that Goldtiger was actually a modern day pastiche/parody of Modesty Blaise rather than a '60s artefact. I'd be lying if I said that revelation didn't dampen my enthusiasm considerably but I went ahead and bought the book anyway.
Having read Goldtiger I really wish Adams and 'Broxton' had sold Rebellion a 'proper' faux newspaper strip collection, by which I mean something like the old Titan Modesty Blaise, Jeff Hawke or James Bond collections, rather than the fake history we ended up with. With the tease of futher volumes being an option I can only hope - if there's a sequel or series - that Adams and 'Broxton' ditch the text features now the joke's been told and stick solidily to the comic strip elements in future.
Arguably there's some potential in the concept/conceit of Goldtiger which I'd like to see developed but on the current evidence Adams & 'Broxton' have some way to go to prove Goldtiger isn't a one-trick pony with a slightly dodgy punchline. ([spoiler]If Baretti's trapped in his own comic strip who's drawing the later episodes?[/spoiler])
Quote from: BPP on 17 March, 2016, 08:00:06 PM
Well this is all a furore!
Personally I don't really know why you'd get angry about being 'duped' by PR... Did you enjoy it has to be the main criteria.
Well, I guess that brings us to the debate of whether we enjoy anything for its inherent worth, or simply because it forms part of the '2000AD canon'.
Quote from: BPP on 17 March, 2016, 08:00:06 PM
Personally I don't really know why you'd get angry about being 'duped' by PR... Did you enjoy it has to be the main criteria.
Very much this. Although it has rather blown my mind how many people were duped. I assumed the first one was joking then they kept on coming. And I knew nothing about kick starting, just what was in the Nerve Centre.
Add me to the 'I can't believe so many people fell for this' column.
With the bonus comedy value of people claiming to get angry at being 'duped' over a book they'd already said they had no intention of buying, when they thought it was still somehow 'real'.
I am outraged it's fictional fiction rather than real fiction...
I am really outraged that people are claiming fictional outrage at fictional fiction rather than real outrage fictional outrage.
I'm outraged that the proclamations of fictional outrage at the fiction outrage are outrageous and that the outrage both fictional, non fiction and fictional none fictional are real and fiction and not fiction real fiction...
... oh no hold on, I'm just confused...
Turns out we're all a Guy Adams creation.
Quote from: GordonR on 18 March, 2016, 09:45:58 AMWith the bonus comedy value of people claiming to get angry at being 'duped' over a book they'd already said they had no intention of buying, when they thought it was still somehow 'real'.
Having been the recipient of such delightful correspondence on two separate projects now, my biggest regret is that I didn't immediately copy and paste the most aggressive examples of penny-dropping-related outrage onto promotional material and capitalised on it - because let's be honest, I would buy a comic promoted with the tagline "I hope you get AIDS when you stick this comic up your ass" and so would everyone else.
What's really funny is that US superhero fans - long known for their open-mindedness - were subjected to just such a hoax with the original Sentry miniseries (it was promoted and sold as being a "lost" Stan Lee superhero concept set in the Marvel universe), and they took it in good grace.
I wouldn't say I was angry at the hoax, but I do find it annoying.
I read the Meg article (it was the first I'd heard of this) and as someone who is interested in the history of comics, I thought this was a fascinating story and might make an interesting purchase.
Now that I know that it's modern creators dicking about and being oh-so-clever about it I'm not interested. I would've been miffed if I'd shelled out money on a misleading premise.
If a project like this didn't wrongfoot a decent proportion of prospective readers, it wouldn't be much good. I don't think there's any shame in either being taken in, or in playing along with the gag in the first place: it's just proof of a quality product.
I was completely taken in by Eddie Campbell's obscure cartoonist pal Bunny Wilson, and his so-bad-they're-awful Monty Zoomer comics, right up to and including the pics of Eddie and family attending his melancholy funeral. I felt like a right silly billy when the penny dropped, but that's part of the fun!
Quote from: Professor Wolfgang Von Bear on 18 March, 2016, 12:09:20 PM
What's really funny is that US superhero fans - long known for their open-mindedness - were subjected to just such a hoax with the original Sentry miniseries (it was promoted and sold as being a "lost" Stan Lee superhero concept set in the Marvel universe), and they took it in good grace.
[spoiler]Well it was - we'd just all forgotten that Stan had written it.[/spoiler]
Oh my God. They did it a gain.
I feel for Marvel's Sentry.
And I feel for this.
WHEN WILL I STOP BEING A CHUMP!?
Fell.
I Fell for things.
Yup- I took it for what it was presented as too- the fact it's Pr makes it funny, that it seemed to work fairly well as a 'hoax' makes it funnier. The creators sounded like such utter dingbats I wanted to know more about them...
It did read very much like an old strip- particularly one that and it was quite enjoyable nonsense. I'll possibly pick it up out of curiosity the next time I've got some gift vouchers, but that Rennie bloke has some book about monsterologies that's first in my purchase queue.
just read goldtiger, and a misery in our family may have just been solved, for as long as i can remember a panel of original art had hung in my dads study, when I asked about the origin of the piece, I was told, "son, never meet your hero's" and that was that!
I think now (through the publication of goldtiger) I understand the origin of the piece and it my very well be the work of Antonio Barreti although their is no signature on the piece or it might be just some be some wannabe hack trying to promote him self through the genius of a master!
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-b2ScNFr2LcQ/VxQL8kPwDDI/AAAAAAAAC1w/4D4CTqdHlpAUUfQUcGWLM4v55WgNoeepgCLcB/s1600/xcould%2Bit%2Bbe-small.jpg)
"Goldtiger" read it, its GENIUS!
Quote from: james newell on 17 April, 2016, 11:23:02 PM
just read goldtiger, and a mistery in our family may have just been solved
It's such a nice conceit that I was disappointed the reveal took place at all. And based on the ThrillCast it wasn't something they felt was necessary, it just played out that way. Why? Dilutes the book in my opinion. Slightly. Good on 'em, though. Definitely picking this up.
On the canon question, I will be counting the episode(s) that have run in the Megazine, but not the collection as a thing in itself towards the old tally on my blog
http://heroesof2000ad.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://heroesof2000ad.blogspot.co.uk/)
(shameless plug there).
Count me also as another fool who would be / is more likely to buy an orignal GN just because its put out by Rebellion with a 2000AD banner on it.
I suppose it'd be too much to ask someone on this thread who has bought and read Goldtiger to say whether they liked it or not? I enjoyed the sample in the Megazine, but I'm not sure I'd get into a whole big bookful of it.
Now even Mickey Mouse is at it: Mickey's Craziest Adventures (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1631406949)
"It's a "lost" 1965 Disney epic, deemed too wild for publication and saved only in tantalizing fragments... or is it? When Pegleg Pete and the Beagle Boys shrink and steal Scrooge's Money Bin, Mickey and Donald must track them down-in what is really a brand-new album-length thriller by comics masters Lewis Trondheim and Nicolas Keramidas: told in an amazing indy style and presented like a treasure suspended in time!"
I had a quick flick through Goldtiger at FP on Saturday and can see why it has been published as a book and not serialised in the Prog. It seems to be mostly (the made up) history with a bit of strip thrown in. As opposed to what I had assumed was a fully fledged strip with a few pages of explanation ( like the Mega Collection).
Based on that, I am definitely glad I didn't order unseen from the Online store.
So to re-evaluate my answer to the question "do you consider it part of 2000AD canon?": definitely not.
Yep, I also had a quick through it at FP as well. Must admit, It looked kinda a fun read, but more text than images prevented me from buying it there and then. (I too thought it was going to be a fully fledged strip).
But, I'm definitely going to treat myself to this at some point.