2000 AD Online Forum

This article (if you can call it that, it's more of a rant) really struck a chord with me. It's pretty much undeniable that new design, in certain areas, is in the doldrums. This is all about video game logos but could so easily be applied to movie posters, comic book covers etc.
http://www.digitiser2000.com/main-page/modern-game-logos-are-rubbish

Mr Biffo is my favourite internet writer. He doesn't rant really - this is just one of the multiople styles he uses for different things. Here he is making a point humourusly but doesn't feel the need for much dialogue as the pictures make his point well.

Modern Life is, in fact, rubbish.

Bring back the 1980s, I say.

Not all new logos are rubbish



I think he used the worst examples possible to make his point



Yes there are a lot of generic ones out there, but there are also some half decent one



and that's without even looking at indie games!

TS?

QuoteIt's pretty much undeniable that new design, in certain areas, is in the doldrums.

Is it? Well, that's news to me!

Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 17 August, 2016, 10:54:05 PM
Modern Life is, in fact, rubbish.

Bring back the 1980s, I say.

I've read your history books and don't want to live in that reality thank you!

Quote from: radiator on 18 August, 2016, 10:55:56 PM

QuoteIt's pretty much undeniable that new design, in certain areas, is in the doldrums.

Is it? Well, that's news to me!

In certain areas.
You don't think the quality of movie posters (at least for the big mainstream films) has suffered over the last 15-20 years?
Another example I gave was comic book covers. You get the odd good one on indie titles (and 2000AD obviously) but most of the mainstream DC / Marvel books have really uninspired covers.

Couldn't it be argued that heavily stylised titles age really poorly? Whilst some minimalist ones, like ROM or the classic, jagged Judge Dredd logo, have aged well despite not being particularly stylised.

A couple of articles by way of explanation:

This is self explanatory:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/jan/28/why-modern-movie-posters-are-so-dreadful

This sums up some of the things I dislike about many modern super hero covers:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=52103

Sorry, but this is exactly the same tired old argument as 'music isn't as good as it was when i was young' - ie people conveniently forgetting that the vast majority of music (and pop culture in general) has always been schlock. Believe it or not, there was a huge amount of absolutely hideous design, art, music etc around in the 80s and 90s, just as there are plenty of outstanding examples of each everywhere you look now.

It's incredibly easy to let nostalgia cloud your mind, like when people bang on about how the bendy 'chrome' 2000ad logo from their childhoods is the 'best' one, even though, with the rose-tinted glasses removed, its chintzy and dated and would look utterly ridiculous in a modern context.

Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 19 August, 2016, 08:20:17 AM
Couldn't it be argued that heavily stylised titles age really poorly?

Totally agree with this. In fact you could easily argue that a lot of the 'good' examples in the Biffo article are actually rather fussy, garish and over-designed.

I think what the article is getting at is that there is a definite trend right now for modernism/minimalism, which I perceive as a reaction to the explosion (and overuse/misuse) of digital design tools like photoshop at the turn of the century. Like all design trends, it will pass. Personally, I like restraint and simplicity in design, though I grudgingly accept that others may interpret it as blandness.

Well yes it's the minimalist trend that is exactly what the complaint is about. It works in some areas but  doesn't necessarily work that great in video games. I think the Tomb Raider and Uncharted logos in particular could be much more interesting. I really like the Yo Kai Watch logo though.
As for film posters, I'd like to ban photoshopped collages.
With comic covers, I'm a firm believer that the cover should reflect the content. Something 2000ad gets right more often than not. There are far too many generic portrait covers on American titles though, often with no explanation of the content whatsoever.

I don't think that it's really the same argument as saying old music used to be better because in these cases we're making a judgement over how well the design performs it's function - not something you can really level at musical appreciation.

Quote from: radiator on 19 August, 2016, 04:30:00 PM
Believe it or not, there was a huge amount of absolutely hideous design, art, music etc around in the 80s and 90s, just as there are plenty of outstanding examples of each everywhere you look now

Yeah, human psychology just means arguments framing events in terms of a decline or a deviation from how things always were (and should always be) are easier to make and to make understood. See also: Brexit.

What Mr Biffo meant to do was highlight a current trend towards a bland aesthetic, which - as he rightly points out - results from a combination of cultural conservatism, industrial cringe, and technological developments which allow design work to be tasked to non-professionals.

The music argument, again, needs nuance. Mainstream music culture is undeniably more timid and less varied than it was even a decade ago, but that's because everyone who enjoys doom metal or throat music can get their fix online, so everything left on radio and telly is the equivalent of the same [spoiler]Deacon Blue[/spoiler] or [spoiler]Counting Crows[/spoiler] that was always there (and was always most popular).

The chrome arch 2000ad logo was indeed shite.

QuoteAs for film posters, I'd like to ban photoshopped collages.

That's like saying cgi should be banned because a handful of movies overuse it or do it badly.

QuoteI think the Tomb Raider and Uncharted logos in particular could be much more interesting.

And I think the original Tomb Raider logo, that Biffo posits is 'great' - is, frankly, a fucking eyesore.

Quotetechnological developments which allow design work to be tasked to non-professionals.

While this undoubtedly does happen, that is not the case here. If anything, the 'classic' logos in the article were more likely to have been designed by a non-professional designer than the modern examples.

QuoteThe chrome arch 2000ad logo was indeed shite.

Thank christ someone finally agrees with me on this. I usually get lynched for saying that around these parts.  :lol:

Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 19 August, 2016, 08:20:17 AM
Couldn't it be argued that heavily stylised titles age really poorly? Whilst some minimalist ones, like ROM or the classic, jagged Judge Dredd logo, have aged well despite not being particularly stylised.

You could argue it but I wouldn't agree.
There are many very stylised logos which still look great. Sticking with 2000ad I give the logos for Slaine, ABC Warriors and Nemesis as examples. All very stylised but all still look great. Other non-2000ad examples off the top of my head would be the classic Conan logo and the fantastic Dungeons and Dragons one.
An example of a stylised logo which maybe hasn't aged so well (back to video games here) would be Wipeout. It looks very 90s but I still admire the sensibility of the design - it has an unmistakable futuristic look. If you saw the logo on it's own, and were told it was from a Videogame, you'd guess that it was something with a Sci Fi element.

Quote from: radiator on 19 August, 2016, 05:45:25 PM

QuoteAs for film posters, I'd like to ban photoshopped collages.

That's like saying cgi should be banned because a handful of movies overuse it or do it badly.

I was being a bit flippant there but hopefully you get what I mean. It's a shame to see it used badly (often lazily) for films which have the potential for awesome artwork. Like the last couple of X-Men films or the Avengers films.

The reason those old logos are bright and garish and far more interesting is because back then all the games were aimed at children/teenagers and not boring old adults, terrified of looking daft but unable to fight the compulsion to pretend to be a zombie-killing cyborg astronaut cowboy Indiana Jones lady whose consciousness has been sent backwards through time via a computer simulation, (or something).

Way back when, collections of stories weren't quite the big deal they originally were - it's understandable if the GN editor doesn't want massive logos every 7 pages or so, or dead space for the art where the logo would originally have been.

I'll always have a soft spot for the original 2000AD logo, the others, not so much. With any of those things, it's so tied into nostalgia, particulary the further back you go, I can't be particularly objective about them.

Quote from: JamesC on 19 August, 2016, 05:45:39 PM
(The) Wipeout (logo) has an unmistakable futuristic look. If you saw the logo on it's own, and were told it was from a Videogame, you'd guess that it was something with a Sci Fi element.

That's ironic.

The styling of the Wipeout series was intended to distance it from the geekyness of similar LucasArts or EA games. The box was supposed to look like a Japanese dance music import CD on your bedroom floor, and the advertising was channelling contemporary rave flyers or the logos above the doorways of Ibiza clubs.

It's an example of the same cultural cringe and determination to appear grown-up that Mr Biffo identifies as a result of games players still feeling a bit self conscious about enjoying the same stuff as wee kids - but I agree it's a distinctive design in the context of games.

In the 90s Japan was futuristic and Sci Fi! :D

QuoteI was being a bit flippant there but hopefully you get what I mean. It's a shame to see it used badly (often lazily) for films which have the potential for awesome artwork. Like the last couple of X-Men films or the Avengers films.

No, I have no idea what you're talking about... :lol:



Being serious, though, I feel like 'photoshopped movie posters' are a bit of a whipping boy and easy to knock, but there are plenty of counter-examples out there.

To me it's like the oft-made argument that practical effects are 'better' than cgi.

Quote from: JamesC on 19 August, 2016, 06:20:03 PM
In the 90s Japan was futuristic and Sci Fi! :D

That's true! Again, ironic, since the defining characteristic of Japanese society today is that it's an elderly, sexless, closed, dead end culture in decline. See also: Brexit.

I wonder how many great poster concepts featuring Iron Man had to be binned because they didn't feature RDJ's face?

QuoteI wonder how many great poster concepts featuring Iron Man had to be binned because they didn't feature RDJ's face?

I'm not sure bringing up Marvel helps your case - they regularly produce, license and distribute dozens of posters to promote their movies, many of which are often genuinely creative (and don't prominently feature the actor's faces).

Also - Marvel movies generally have bloody awesome logos:

Yeah, those logos are brilliant, really like them both.
I love that Ant Man poster but have only ever seen it on the web, never at the multiplex. Those other posters are pretty great too but are totally new to me. I only ever saw the general photo collage ones at the cinema and on the buses. Good on Marvel for doing something different as well though.

No coincidence that the only poster above (perhaps never widely distributed, I wouldn't know) I like is Ant-Man - it actually has an idea.

Why is 'aging badly' a criticism? It's an irrelevance.