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General Chat => Film & TV => : JOE SOAP 10 July, 2018, 01:50:53 AM

: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 10 July, 2018, 01:50:53 AM
To no one's surprise.

Billy Dee Williams Reprising Role as Lando Calrissian

Link (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-billy-dee-williams-returning-as-lando-calrissian-xi-1125818)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JamesC 10 July, 2018, 06:01:06 AM
I bet he dies.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 10 July, 2018, 10:19:12 AM
Excellent news!  I was concerned there weren't any characters from the OT left to destroy, but I didn't give JJ enough credit.

Joking aside, this could actually go either way: on one hand he's an older male, and thus has to go under the bus, but on the other hand he's non-Caucasian, and thus must be elevated above the inferior white characters.  Finally the Sequels have introduced a wild card!
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Mardroid 10 July, 2018, 10:50:11 AM
I wouldn’t be surprised if he survived. While he has a fairly major role in tESB and ROTJ, he is still mainly a supporting character outside of the triumvirate of Luke, Han and Leia.

That being said I’d be equally unsurprised if he is killed, but I’d rather they’d stop doing that
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Tiplodocus 10 July, 2018, 01:25:00 PM
If he does cop it, it'll probably be in a heroic self-sacrificing manner to appease those elements of the fan base who think character arcs must always include explosions.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 10 July, 2018, 01:51:18 PM
If I had to guess, he'll either be bummed to death by a droid with a strap-on - and even the haters will say "that's typical Lando" - or - because he became a respected community leader in his middle age - I suspect Lando will be a proxy for the Leia-shaped hole in Ep IX, which means he's basically Bail Organa MK2 and will most likely die off-camera when the planet he's currently occupying is shot by yet another Death Star.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Bolt-01 10 July, 2018, 03:08:05 PM
Personal head canon for Lando- He's an older gent, so has taken a back role in the 'businesses' he runs, leaving everything to an army of supremely attractive ladies- who are all his daughters. He spends his days trying to finance his alimony payments...
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Tiplodocus 10 July, 2018, 04:02:00 PM
This film is writing itself!

I hope the Last Jedi Remake fellas are doing as well as us.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 10 July, 2018, 04:11:46 PM
All I have to say is......ugh. Please god, can they not just leave the old guys alone.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 10 July, 2018, 04:13:11 PM
If Lando somehow resurrects Han and Luke and then they all go on a lovely holiday with Chewie in the Falcon, then I'm in. If that doesn't happen, I'm not going to see it.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: James Stacey 10 July, 2018, 04:30:39 PM
Luke's pretty much bound to be in it anyway isn't he? You can't keep a good force ghost down.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: The Legendary Shark 10 July, 2018, 04:44:06 PM

I imagine him shacked-up with Maz Kanata, then immediately wish I hadn't.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 10 July, 2018, 07:15:20 PM
Luke's pretty much bound to be in it anyway isn't he? You can't keep a good force ghost down.

Unknown at this point......we need some confirmation from Hamill, who has only previously said that he wasn't in it.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 10 July, 2018, 08:10:02 PM
Luke's pretty much bound to be in it anyway isn't he? You can't keep a good force ghost down.

Unknown at this point......we need some confirmation from Hamill, who has only previously said that he wasn't in it.

I don't think he ever said he wasn't in it; only that he felt he's emotionally moving on after Carrie Fisher died, but as usual he's playing coy as he always does. I think it's a forgone conclusion he'll be in it. He tweeted a still of a countdown clock to Episode IX (https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/1014952913410506752) the other day.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 10 July, 2018, 09:37:45 PM
It's unlikely that Lucasfilm didn't have the option to extend Hamill's contract to at least Episode IX written into whatever he signed going in to The Force Awakens, and now Carrie Fisher has left us, who else are they going to put onscreen to appease the old-school Star Wars fans they apparently hate so much?  As unquestionably awesome as he is, Lando is not quite on the same level as the core trio in terms of box office draw, and in terms of storyline, who exactly is Rey supposed to learn Jedi-ing from if not Skywalker's Force ghost?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 10 July, 2018, 10:09:01 PM
...now Carrie Fisher has left us, who else are they going to put onscreen to appease the old-school Star Wars fans they apparently hate so much?

Since it's all the rage these days at sister silo Marvel: a scene or scenes with de-aged Han and Luke (and maybe Lando) in the years between ROTJ and TFA.

As flashbacks are baked into this set of films from the start, I'm surprised we didn't all ready get it in either Episode VII or VIII just to give the old fans what they missed in the 30 year void. A Pavlovian blowjob like that would bring the abstainers back for IX.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 10 July, 2018, 10:47:44 PM
Well, I am one of those abstainers....bring on the pavlovian bj....... .this will be the first star wars film ever released that I do not intend to see at the cinema. Oddly, I am excited (maybe "curious" would be more accurate) to see the eventual trailer, as I am really wondering how they intend to entice the disillusioned back in.

Truthfully, i think that only some hint of addressing the direction that they took Luke in would cut it. I know some enjoyed that choice, but the reality is that it was that choice of character "development" that really kicked up all of the divisions in the fan base.......and still they rage on!

It'll be a really interesting trailer. I think there is a lot riding on it for Disney, what with theme park openings, conventions and TV shows in the works......
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JamesC 11 July, 2018, 04:24:40 AM
I bet you go see it at the cinema!
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 11 July, 2018, 11:09:22 AM
Well DUH - if he doesn't go and see it at the cinema, how will he know he was right to not go see it at the cinema?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 11 July, 2018, 11:48:00 AM
I would love to believe that Disney has done a detailed and comprehensive review of the last 6 months of happenings in the greater Star wars community, that they have been able to navigate through the horrible quagmire of the ranting and offensive vocal minority and pick up on some of the concerns of the fans.

I live in hope (just like Luke Skywalker used to) that the trailer will promise something interesting and exciting, as it's increasingly difficult for me to care after that last film. I've caught star wars apathy.


But.....I enjoyed Solo a lot. So......
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 11 July, 2018, 12:47:59 PM
I don't think they'll change their strategy much, as a wave of hostility that creates sympathy for their product is an oddly happy accident for one of the world's most branding and marketing-savvy corporate entities.  Disney engineered the visibility of most of that fanboy ranting as it was part of their marketing strategy from the off - there's even an interview with Rian Johnson back in the day saying he was making a Star Wars film that was deliberately polorising.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 11 July, 2018, 03:22:15 PM
Disney engineered the visibility of most of that fanboy ranting as it was part of their marketing strategy from the off - there's even an interview with Rian Johnson back in the day saying he was making a Star Wars film that was deliberately polorising.

Isn't that clip from way back in the day (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i8eixMkCrs), at the time of Brick (2005), before Disney assimilated him into destroying their franchise. Although he has disputed this was the case for The Last Jedi. (https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/943930384852574208?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E943930384852574208&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fio9.gizmodo.com%2Fajax%2Finset%2Fiframe%3Fid%3Dtwitter-943930384852574208%26autosize%3D1)

It's something which is of course grist to the mill for some who consider The Last Jedi too 'radical' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yDAYsQOJsY) and naturally conflate one with the other.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 11 July, 2018, 04:28:06 PM
The clip I'm thinking of was more recent than that, and was part of the Last Jedi promotional material specifically - though he words it very similarly.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 27 July, 2018, 09:37:59 PM
‘Star Wars: Episode IX’ Announces Cast; Carrie Fisher to Be Featured (https://variety.com/2018/film/news/star-wars-episode-ix-cast-carrie-fisher-billy-dee-williams-1202888693/)

Billy Dee Williams is reprising his role as Lando Calrissian, and Carrie Fisher will be featured in the final installment in the trilogy using previously unreleased footage shot for “Star Wars: The Force Awakens.”

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 27 July, 2018, 11:06:27 PM
Jesus.  I was on the fence before, but now that's a hard pass.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Frank 27 July, 2018, 11:07:42 PM

Icky


: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 28 July, 2018, 08:03:11 AM
Well at least it offucually confirmed Hamill on the cast list.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 28 July, 2018, 10:51:45 AM
Including Leia at all is a bad idea. I understand that the intention of her being a big part of IX was always there,  but tragedy intervened. Carrie delivered a fantastic couple of scenes at the end of TLJ,   I watch them over and over, moving and uplifting: leave it at that.  Unless it's a holo recording of some inspirational speech,  Leia dies off screen between movies,  move on.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Steve Green 28 July, 2018, 10:59:26 AM
Yeah, I'm not sure about that at all.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Magnetica 28 July, 2018, 07:53:48 PM
The press release says her bits will use unseen footage that was shot for the Force Awakens. I am intrigued to see how they will make that fit the narrative.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: wedgeski 28 July, 2018, 08:07:31 PM
Including Leia at all is a bad idea. I understand that the intention of her being a big part of IX was always there,  but tragedy intervened. Carrie delivered a fantastic couple of scenes at the end of TLJ,   I watch them over and over, moving and uplifting: leave it at that.  Unless it's a holo recording of some inspirational speech,  Leia dies off screen between movies,  move on.
That might be exactly what they're planning, who knows?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 28 July, 2018, 11:24:51 PM
The agreement was made over a year ago year but Lucasfilm chose to deny it/changed their mind because of a script in flux?


APRIL 8, 2017

Shortly after her passing, Lucasfilm confirmed that they had “no plans to digitally recreate Carrie Fisher’s performance as Princess or General Leia Organa” in Episode IX. Now Fisher’s brother, Todd Fisher, confirmed that his sister’s character will appear in the last trilogy film.

Todd told the New York Daily News that he, along with Carrie’s daughter, Billie Lourd, gave Disney permission to use recent footage for the finale, and it is understood that no CGI would be used to recreate Leia.

“Both of us were like, ‘Yes, how do you take her out of it?’ And the answer is you don’t,” Fisher said. “She’s as much a part of it as anything and I think her presence now is even more powerful than it was, like Obi Wan — when the saber cuts him down he becomes more powerful. I feel like that’s what’s happened with Carrie. I think the legacy should continue. I’m not the only part in that equation, but I think the people deserve to have her. She’s owned by them.”


https://deadline.com/2017/04/carrie-fisher-appearring-star-wars-episode-ix-brother-reveals-1202065614/


APRIL 15, 2017

“Sadly, Carrie will not be in [Episode] IX,” Kennedy told ABC News from the Star Wars Celebration, where the trailer for Episode VIII: The Last Jedi debuted. “But we will see a lot of Carrie in VIII.”

“She’s as much a part of it as anything and I think her presence now is even more powerful than it was, like Obi Wan — when the saber cuts him down he becomes more powerful,” Todd Fisher said. “I feel like that’s what’s happened with Carrie. I think the legacy should continue… Both of us were like, ‘Yes, how do you take her out of it?’ And the answer is you don’t.”

“[Todd Fisher] was probably confused because we finished everything in VIII, and Carrie is absolutely phenomenal in the movie. We’re so happy that we were able to complete shooting in the summer,” Kennedy said Friday. “Unfortunately, Carrie passed away. So by the time we were well under way with Episode IX, in our thoughts, we had not written the script, but we’ve regrouped and started over again in January.”

Kennedy noted in a separate interview with Yahoo (via The Playlist) that Fisher’s character played a “significant part” in the Episode IX outline, but after the Star Wars team and director Colin Trevorrow reconvened in January following Fisher’s December death, they opted to take the story in a different direction. “Given the circumstances, we would not carry on with that,” Kennedy said, adding of Todd Fisher’s statement, “I have no idea why he said that.”


https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-news/carrie-fisher-wont-appear-in-star-wars-episode-ix-lucasfilm-says-124027/

JULY 28, 2018

Todd Fisher, the brother of the late Carrie Fisher, says he “couldn’t be more personally thrilled and happy that our Carrie will reprise her role as Princess Leia in the new and final Star Wars Episode IX using previously unreleased footage of her shot for Star Wars: The Force Awakens.

Fisher issued a statement today in the wake of announcements that Carrie Fisher would appear in the upcoming film using previously filmed footage.

“As we, her family, as well as her extended family of fans around the world so believe, Carrie’s ‘Princess Leia is forever entrenched in the franchise and her indelible presence is fundamental to the film,” Todd Fisher said.  “J.J. Abrams understood Carrie’s iconic role,  and he has masterfully re-crafted this final entry to include this unused  and very last footage of Carrie ever taken, without resorting to CGI or animatronics. Our family and her fans will look forward with great anticipation for this one! Her force will forever be with us!”


https://deadline.com/2018/07/star-wars-digital-appearance-by-late-carrie-fisher-gets-brothers-backing-1202435687/
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 29 July, 2018, 12:00:18 AM
There was a story about how they took Carrie Fisher's dog to the Last Jedi premiere, and when Carrie was onscreen talking the dog would become excited.  This was pushed as a feelgood anecdote rather than heartbreaking and possibly cruel.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 29 July, 2018, 08:24:41 AM
I'm sure it's only going to be a token addition, a short scene of her doing her general thing back at hq. I didn't get any emotional resonance from her last scenes in last jedi, so I'm good with her getting a final nod and send off in the last film of the trilogy.

If they were doing any cgi shenanigans, that would be more concerning.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Frank 29 July, 2018, 09:24:06 AM
I'm sure it's only going to be a token

A unit of exchange. A commodity (https://youtu.be/dD2UE0tJ66Y?t=7m11s).


: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Steve Green 29 July, 2018, 09:41:51 AM
Moral questions aside, (and since the family have OK'd it...) I'm not sure what you're actually going to get from unused footage from another film.

Some non dialogue shots?

Anything else is going to need some artificial manipulation to get something coherent, surely?

Mentioning animatronics seems a very odd thing to say too.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 29 July, 2018, 10:21:32 AM
It's a puzzle alright.  I think it would be a shame if the last we got of Leia was a passive character in the background,  or some sort of manipulated performance from Carrie. I thought her little mini arc at the end of TLJ was great: defiance,  despair,  hope, wisdom and passing the baton.  Seemed like as good a conclusion as we could hope for. Obviously Ben's redemption and their reconciliation was going to be Leia's story in IX,  and there's no way that can happen now,  so a lesser part just seems... sad. I struggle, misty-eyed, with CGI Leia in R1, but part of me loves that single word conclusion (to a problematic film) so much that I think it's worth it. Going forward,  pretty sure further shenanigans would be going too far.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 29 July, 2018, 10:42:04 AM
I would suggest it's just part of the "let's play it REALLY safe" mindset that surely must be at the front of their minds following what has happened since December.

I can only imagine it's a "look everyone, here is leia  at resistance hq, all is fine and she is still working away in the background fighting the good fight against the evil first order....everything is absolutely fine....we didnt kill anyone!!.....now, back to the main characters".
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Frank 29 July, 2018, 10:43:03 AM
Mentioning animatronics seems a very odd thing to say too.

It's Disney, and it's a Small World (https://youtu.be/7tbm4Au3dZ0?t=1m40s).

I assume 'without CGI' means they're not creating a digital mannequin, as they did in Rogue One, but even just changing the background and removing Harrison Ford from shot is going to involve digital technology. I expect Carrie's guillotined head* to float awkwardly above another actor's body, like Oliver Reed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCkZr5k6ZjA) in Gladiator. Failing that, Ridley Scott can probably give them Chris Plummer's number.

Also, absolutely everything TordelBack's just said.


* The Walt Disney Corporation having special expertise in the removal of heads and overoptimistic expectations regarding the reanimation of the deceased
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 29 July, 2018, 10:57:58 AM
I do not have much Hope for Episode IX as Disney believe plonking Star Wars on the title screen and adding a number to Episode it is all that is required. The first movie we all rushed to go and see and now where at the point where they have to focus on a proper story and keeping true to the original Star Wars movies to keep people interested. Hopefully I wrong and Episode IX can deliver but I see another rehash of one of the original stories.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 29 July, 2018, 02:50:04 PM
Disney believe plonking Star Wars on the title screen and adding a number to Episode it is all that is required.

I think you mean Lucasfilm - Disney may well believe that, but they don't make the movies. If no-one there thinks any effort is required,  why do they keep changing directors, invest in reshoots,  try new controversial directions, produce beautiful designs and dense webs of visual and thematic reference... Why do I,  a fan of 40 years,  feel so engaged by story and characters in a film series I never really wanted to see,  when at the end of Episode III I felt cold and distanced from the whole thing?  Am I a total schmuck,  to fall for any old shite with Episode Whatever written on it? Or could it be they are delicious bring a product I'm really enjoying?

 I'll say it again: I enjoyed TLJ more than any SW since RotJ (or at least since I completed Dark Forces the first time). People didn't,  that's fine,  but I really struggle to see how that movie was just plonking Star Wars on the screen.  That said,  I share fears that the negativity with which its attempts to do new things was met will indeed lead to something safe and repetitive, but in that case it'll be only us to blame.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Frank 29 July, 2018, 02:55:05 PM
they are Delicious Bring a product I'm really enjoying

There's the name for your new gourmet home delivery start-up.


: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 29 July, 2018, 03:03:51 PM
Yes,  I'm not sure what auto-correct was even auto-correcting there! "Delivering", maybe?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: IndigoPrime 29 July, 2018, 03:06:21 PM
I’d echo TB. Plot issues/holes aside, I liked TLJ. I thought it was interesting and opened up new directions. I prefer ESB and SW, but that’s probably all. (RO probably on levei pegging.)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 29 July, 2018, 03:20:53 PM
Full disclosure,  today it's:

TESB,  ANH,  RotJ,  TLJ,  (CW '03-05),  TPM,  (TCW '08-14)=TFA,  (Rebels), Solo, RotS=R1, AotC, (Droids),  CoC,  (Ewoks), BfE,  THS.

So Episode IX has it all to play for,  really.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 29 July, 2018, 04:34:04 PM
Interesting to consider where game storylines come in any list of canon SW media, as I probably enjoyed the Battlefront 2 story more than TLJ even if some of the dialogue was a bit duff - though we got see Han Solo in a beard so stupid it was a plot point, so there's that.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 29 July, 2018, 04:36:33 PM
Don’t get me wrong I enjoyed the new batch of SW movies and I will go and see Episode IX on the big screen.
I might be over critically of the movies since every fan believe he knows best and I am a fan.

My biggest issues were that TFA felt like a remake of ANH and TLJ felt in some sense very much not like a SW movie. I did not like the idea of General Huxley becoming the comic relieve. What is the purpose of the Resistance  (rebirth of the Rebellion )and why do they exist ?

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 29 July, 2018, 05:04:59 PM
Resistance v First Order exists to reintroduce the multi-billion dollar Rebel Alliance v Empire IP to the big screen and toy shelves.

But if you mean in-universe, to make it clearer check out some of the deleted scenes on the TFA Blu-ray,  or better yet,  the surprisingly entertaining Leia novel Bloodline by Claudia Gray. But it's more or less all there in TFA and TLJ.

 Essentially : post-Civil War treaty and disarmament, complacent New Republic refuses to recognise growing threat of Imperial remnant reorganised under charismatic force-sensitive Snoke into the First Order,  increasing Industrial exploitation and enslavement of worlds in their ambit (Rose's story in TLJ), corruption of Luke's Jedi trainees (Luke's story in TLJ) ,  stealth militarisation and aggression against unaligned or border worlds. Discredited in the Senate,  Leia,  Ackbar and Co take matters into their own hands, form a Resistance movement pushing back against increasing FO outrages,  and try to expose the truth of the situation. Snoke (rightly) accuses Resistance of breaking treaties, condemns Republic as supporting them (how much of this is true is debatable) and uses this as his casus belli for launching a first strike (destruction of Senate and Republic fleet in TFA). And there we are,  just the Resistance opposing the new empire,  and that now about 20 people...
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 29 July, 2018, 05:25:14 PM
Thanks for the info TordelBack.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 29 July, 2018, 05:53:27 PM
Thanks for the info TordelBack.

Any time Broodblik old bean; I'm in a monster grump at the moment, so any excuse to vomit forth irrelevant nonsense eases the pressure.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Jim_Campbell 29 July, 2018, 07:22:48 PM
This is a large part of my problem with these new SW movies, if I’m honest. The number of times I’ve mentioned a plot hole, or something that seemed illogical or unclear, only to be told: well, if you watched the DVD extras or read this novel…

No. Just no. I’m not doing fucking homework so that a movie makes sense. I hadn’t even seen bloody Star Wars when I saw ESB and it still made sense.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 29 July, 2018, 07:43:58 PM
Thanks for the info TordelBack.

Any time Broodblik old bean; I'm in a monster grump at the moment, so any excuse to vomit forth irrelevant nonsense eases the pressure.

Don’t worry, I believe I am still reeling from the Lunar Eclipse we had here down south on Friday, I could howl at the moon, so I might be more cranky than usual.  :D

But I must agree with Jim_Campbell, why must we read a novel to understand the movie? The novels should be used as back-stories not the main story.



: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 29 July, 2018, 08:13:35 PM
No. Just no. I’m not doing fucking homework so that a movie makes sense. I hadn’t even seen bloody Star Wars when I saw ESB and it still made sense.

Well, as it happens I do agree entirely with you on that score, but all this stuff is more-or-less in the films, the bits I mention just clarify/expand on it, and what isn't there is in no way necessary to understand or follow the story. 

The problem is, as I think we discussed before, that after 40+ years we now expect to know all the back story, in a way we didn't back then.  To drag out a well-worn example, the Emperor's name had only appeared in the preface to the Star Wars novelisation (and then in more obscure sources) until a Hasbro figure in (I think) 1998, and Vader being a Lord of the Sith is only actually mentioned on the first page of that same book. Nobody mentions "X-Wings" in the movies until near the end of TESB. Nobody names Bail Organa on screen until Attack of the Clones in 2002.

But we've been swimming in a soup of SW multimedia, and thus think the films told us this stuff.  Now when the new ones also don't, we feel short-changed, because we should know where Snoke and the First Order come from, and if the books/comics/games fill in this stuff, we complain.  I accept that it's a somewhat different situation with sequels, when we can see the gaps between what we know at the end of RotJ and what we find at the start of TFA, rather than starting with a blank slate, but I still don't think there's anything missing in the new movies that the imagination can't adequately fill in just as well as it did in '77.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 29 July, 2018, 08:25:32 PM
Caveat: There is one short scene of Leia talking by comm to Maisie Richardson Sellars' character at the New Republic Senate on Hosnian Prime that was cut from the film (included as an extra on the BluRay), and I think that was a massive mistake: it quickly sketches out the political situation, and it also situates the destruction we see later. Obviously everyone was scared of a Phantom Menace-ish backlash against anything resembling a senate scene, so again, we only have ourselves as whiny fans to blame.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 29 July, 2018, 09:39:48 PM
All I want to know is what Dash Rendar is doing during all this.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: GrudgeJohnDeed 29 July, 2018, 10:16:36 PM
Hah, I'd play another Shadows of the Empire if they bring back Dash Rendar!
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Jim_Campbell 29 July, 2018, 10:46:22 PM
Did he have a very shiny nose?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 29 July, 2018, 11:37:57 PM
Did he have a very shiny nose?

No, but his beard is back in fashion!

Hang on....no....that was Kyle Katarn.....no hope for Dash.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Mister Pops 30 July, 2018, 04:29:11 AM
Full disclosure,  today it's:

TESB,  ANH,  RotJ,  TLJ,  (CW '03-05),  TPM,  (TCW '08-14)=TFA,  (Rebels), Solo, RotS=R1, AotC, (Droids),  CoC,  (Ewoks), BfE,  THS.

So Episode IX has it all to play for,  really.

I have no idea what half those acronyms mean
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 30 July, 2018, 08:30:32 AM

It’s the Tordelback (TBK) Index.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 30 July, 2018, 09:12:41 AM
Full disclosure,  today it's:

TESB,  ANH,  RotJ,  TLJ,  (CW '03-05),  TPM,  (TCW '08-14)=TFA,  (Rebels), Solo, RotS=R1, AotC, (Droids),  CoC,  (Ewoks), BfE,  THS.

So Episode IX has it all to play for,  really.

I have no idea what half those acronyms mean

I'm not sure if it's a good thing for me to admit.....but I understand the whole list......though certainly not the order they are in. They seem to have got mixed up  ;).

I was going to put TLJ in dead last place, but notice the inclusion of THS.....regardless, it's still a close thing for me. The survival of the OT cast in THS might just edge it ahead of TLJ. THS ("The Holiday Special") was, up until last year, the most dismal piece of Star wars. There are no super weapons in it though. And it does have an entirely original story... .it's almost entirely unwatchable, more than once.

No separate inclusion of TCW movie? Assuming you are just including it as part of the series (I know it was just some joined up and jazzed up episodes).

Star wars lists.....all good fun  :)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 30 July, 2018, 10:23:10 AM
It’s cartoon Boba Fett (his first time seen in-universe and he’s an actual character with agency), Life Day and grandpa Wookie porn, for THS to take its rightful place ahead of the Prequels.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 30 July, 2018, 11:31:25 AM
No separate inclusion of TCW movie? Assuming you are just including it as part of the series (I know it was just some joined up and jazzed up episodes).

Correct.  Although I note that it's still a separate purchase on DVD, which is a bit shitty (even if it does still clog the bins of shops everywhere)- an extra disc at the front of Season 1 would have been nice.  If I were rating it separately, it'd have to be down near RotS, because outside of the two main battle scenes (Christophsis and the initial assault on the Monastery on Teth), it doesn't really stand the test of time - and compared to the existing first half-dozen episodes of Season 1, it's a bit rubbish: the Tatooine bits, Anakin hopping around on STAPs - I just find myself thinking what a pale lifeless imitation of the Tartakovsky series it is.  Even the TCW episodes that act as prologues to Christophsis are better.

I've tried to see Joe Soap's point about the Boba Fett cartoon, but is surrounded by so very much soul-sapping dreck that I don't think I can even raise The Holiday Special to the level of Caravan of Courage.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 30 July, 2018, 12:49:40 PM
The only reason that I rate the clone wars movie as a separate entity is that it did get an official cinema release.....so, as I saw that in the cinema....twice....so,I'd rank it.

It's inclusion of Ventress alone, possibly my favourite clone wars character, elevates it over some ofthe New Star Wars films (mainly as I was still feeling joy for all things star wars  then).

The Holiday Special is almost entirely unwatchable, even I would struggle a little to choose between sitting through it ever again or sitting through last jedi ever again .
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 30 July, 2018, 01:09:59 PM
I never made it through THS, but I'd agree that TLJ ranks dead last for me even though I wouldn't describe it as the worst installment by any yardstick - it's just that even with objectively terrible entries like AotC I at least wanted to see more, but after TLJ I barely managed to go so see SOLO (and only went in the end because my dad wouldn't go to the cinema on his own to watch something).
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 30 July, 2018, 01:26:47 PM
I never made it through THS, but I'd agree that TLJ ranks dead last for me even though I wouldn't describe it as the worst installment by any yardstick - it's just that even with objectively terrible entries like AotC I at least wanted to see more, but after TLJ I barely managed to go so see SOLO (and only went in the end because my dad wouldn't go to the cinema on his own to watch something).

Solo was the first time that I ever walked into a star wars movie with an attitude of complete apathy......I did really enjoy it thankfully. I don't have the same desire for episode 9.....but I'm waiting on the trailer.  I just really want to see a crowd pleasing feel good adventure movie. They don't come any more generic and jam-packed with complete scene rehashing as TFA and TLJ, so I guess we're all in for even more of the same, just hopefully with a little more joy and a lot less "your momma" humour.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 30 July, 2018, 02:06:45 PM
It's inclusion of Ventress alone, possibly my favourite clone wars character, elevates it over some ofthe New Star Wars films (mainly as I was still feeling joy for all things star wars  then).

Hmm, you're right, Ventress is pretty great in it - I love her repartee with Kenobi.  In the lead-in to the Nightsister stuff, the part where Dooku outright abandons her after her ships crashes in the hangar with the two lads is truly fantastic.

I would however argue that Rotta cancels out Ventress in the context of the film itself (Uncle Ziro Desilijic Tiure (aka Truman Capote the Hutt), on the other hand, I love, and think he should have had a longer run - to this day I regret the absence of a Ziro in any form in my collection of plastic tat. But then my last 3 3/4" scale Hutt of any kind was Jabba Glob back in '99. I do have two WotC 28mm Jabbas, each with their own shortcomings, and I often think about repainting one as Ziro).

I used to rank the TCW movie as its own thing(Episode 2.5) for exactly the same reasons, cinema release, but after long years of rewatching it with my Clone Wars-obsessed son, I decided it was better to think of it as a feature-length pilot.

Along with RotS it's the only theatrical SW movie I only saw once in the cinema.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: The Legendary Shark 30 July, 2018, 05:11:26 PM

This thread left me behind ages ago. I still haven't seen the Holiday Special but I think I'd like to, just for research of course...

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 30 July, 2018, 05:24:55 PM

This thread left me behind ages ago. I still haven't seen the Holiday Special but I think I'd like to, just for research of course...

You think that.  You think it's so bad it has to be at least amusing, a curiosity, a shared experience of nerdkind.  We all thought that.  Then we watched it.  You have a finite life, it's up to you to use it as you see fit.  But on this, heed the warnings of your peers.

The ONLY bit worth watching, unless you have a serious Bea Arthur fetish, is this:

https://youtu.be/UC2Q6ANLXQ0 (https://youtu.be/UC2Q6ANLXQ0)

There, you're done.  Spend the time saved reading a good book, or whittling scrimshaw, anything else, basically.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: The Legendary Shark 30 July, 2018, 06:09:25 PM

Hmmm, but, you know, you're talking to a man who enjoyed Episodes I, II and III more than IV, V and VI...

However, if your advice still stands after learning the depths of my depravity I will take heed and forget it ever existed. Probably.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: sheridan 30 July, 2018, 06:11:56 PM
* The Walt Disney Corporation having special expertise in the removal of heads and overoptimistic expectations regarding the reanimation of the deceased


Reference to an urban myth (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/suspended-animation/) regarding Walt?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: sheridan 30 July, 2018, 06:20:17 PM
Full disclosure,  today it's:

TESB,  ANH,  RotJ,  TLJ,  (CW '03-05),  TPM,  (TCW '08-14)=TFA,  (Rebels), Solo, RotS=R1, AotC, (Droids),  CoC,  (Ewoks), BfE,  THS.

So Episode IX has it all to play for,  really.

I have no idea what half those acronyms mean

I got:
Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
The Last Jedi
Clone Wars TV series
The Phantom Menace
The other Clone Wars series
The Force Awakens
Rebels
Solo
Revenge of the Sith
Rogue One
Attack of the Clones
Droids cartoon
CoC?
Ewoks cartoon
BfE?
THS?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 30 July, 2018, 06:24:54 PM
CoC = Caravan of Courage
BfE = Battle for Endor
THS = The Holiday Special

The first Star Wars 'spin-offs'.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: sheridan 30 July, 2018, 06:28:09 PM
CoC = Caravan of Courage
BfE = Battle for Endor
THS = The Holiday Special

The first Star Wars spin-offs.

I worked out two of the other three further down the thread (couldn't look ahead, that would be cheating!)  I have actually seen all of those mentioned, though can never remember the name of Battle for Endor.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 30 July, 2018, 09:19:11 PM
What the hell, I'll throw in my star wars votes, though I'll leave out the ewok films as I don't really count them.

1. Return of the Jedi
2. Empire strikes back
3. New hope
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. Clone wares cartoon (cgi)
5. Attack of the clones
6. Phantom Menace
7. Solo
8. The clone wars movie
9. Rogue One
10. Force awakens.....which would have been 1 higher, but last jedi robbed it of it of most of its good points.
11.  The last jedi.
12. The dreaded holiday special ....it's almost unbearable.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: The Enigmatic Dr X 30 July, 2018, 09:21:56 PM
Star Wars died for me with The Last Jedi. I'll probably watch Solo and any other movies on a rainy Sunday, if they happen to be on telly. But the magic is gone.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 30 July, 2018, 09:38:23 PM
What the hell, I'll throw in my star wars votes, though I'll leave out the ewok films as I don't really count them.

1. Return of the Jedi
2. Empire strikes back
3. New hope
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. Clone wares cartoon (cgi)
5. Attack of the clones
6. Phantom Menace
7. Solo
8. The clone wars movie

9. Rogue One
10. Force awakens
.....which would have been 1 higher, but last jedi robbed it of it of most of its good points.
11.  The last jedi.
12. The dreaded holiday special ....it's almost unbearable.


(theatrically chews cigar) WELL WELL WELL if Mr "Rogue One wasn't as good as The Force Awakens" hasn't changed his tune just like we said he would.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 30 July, 2018, 09:45:10 PM
Ha, yeah, maybe I should have also stated, I really really hate everything AFTER Number 8.

Rogue one is a complete miserable mess of a film......but Last Jedi just took everything interesting in Force awakens and just ruined it. So all I'm left with now is a film that needlessly kills Han solo.  So, now that's ruined, Rogue One edges it for some of its half decent moments.

And I'm with Dr X, last jedi also killed my love. Genuinely didn't think I'd ever feel like that after my 40 years with star wars.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 30 July, 2018, 09:47:29 PM
Not only is The Last Jedi killing the original cast, it's killing the fans!*

*only available on youtube.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 30 July, 2018, 10:37:07 PM
So all I'm left with now is a film that needlessly kills Han solo.

How do you figure that?  It's a critical character moment for Han, and for Ben.  For Han, it's finally putting aside all of his scoundrel cynicism and cunning, and his later flight from of his responsibilities, and giving in to love for his son - and commitment to his wife.  However wrong it goes, it's the concrete endpoint of his character arc.  For Ben, it's the viewer-visible moment of complete submission to darkness that Anakin never really had (the younglings thing was such a ludicrous escalation from stopping bossy-boots Windu killing his substitute father, plus that kid's awful delivery...).  That it didn't stick, that even that terrible sacrifice wasn't enough to give him the clarity and focus he needs to realise his power, that's just the icing on the cake.   

I never wanted to see Han die, ever, and I wish we hadn't, but that scene, with the sun finally going out in the background, with Han slipping from the failing shaft of light into red shadow, touching Ben's cheek, Chewie losing it... goddamn, it was something.

Surely none of that is lost or undermined by TLJ, no matter what your problems with the treatment of Luke's character, or the sidestepping of Rey and Snoke's backgrounds.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 30 July, 2018, 10:49:14 PM
No, it's as you say TB, I didnt want to see Han die. It wasnt necessary. I have no desire to watch han get old, have a broken marriage and then be killed by his own child. How well (or not) that it was done was completely irrelevant to me, I just do not get any enjoyment from watching it.

Mark Hamill's acting and portrayal of "Luke"  in Last Jedi was excellent. What he did, he did well. I just didn't enjoy a single second of it.

Not liking anything that they did with the legacy characters is exactly why I don't like new Star wars. They appear to be there to get this middle aged man to buy a ticket......but then they do this with them?  I'm incapable of moving beyond this approach I guess......but why would I want to?

The Force awakens was generic, but it introduced some genuinely likeable characters, provided some excitement, murdered someone for the drama of it, and then ultimately gave me 2 years of hope that something amazing was coming.

 The last jedi gave me crushing disappointment, bad humour, far too many tiring rug pulling moments, multiple scenes lifted from prior star wars films, and somehow managed to steal all of the charm from the characters introduced in TFA. It retrospectively makes that film worse. The other things that I struggle with are, Luke skywalker completely aside, the Finn storyline and the Po storyline in TLJ are just awful (IMO).....so I'm left with nothing to like.


And yes, TLJ completely spoils TFA. Aside from another stomping on an OT character, it renders the whole driving search for luke in TFA fairly meaningless, as in I couldn't care that they find luke as I don't like the luke that they find. Snoke was intersting, he isn't now, rey was interesting, she isn't now, Po is no longer likeable,  Finn is no longer likeable, ugh. What is left in TFA that I could care less about? Maybe Kylo?

Anyway.......we are going over well trodden ground now. I'm never going to be convinced that it is any good, and it's events directly impact on most of the driving themes in TFA. So definitely file it all under "not for me".
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 30 July, 2018, 11:08:09 PM
Surely none of that is lost or undermined by TLJ, no matter what your problems with the treatment of Luke's character, or the sidestepping of Rey and Snoke's backgrounds.

If you didn't buy into it in the first place, TB, you are correct in that nothing in TLJ takes away from it.  I have mentioned in the past that I like the Han Solo archetype, but I've never actually liked the Han Solo character, so his death did little for me except making me guffaw when the eclipse happened because of the "as long as there's light there's hope!" setup that's pure on-the-nose Save The Cat.

Not liking anything that they did with the legacy characters is exactly why I don't like new Star wars. They appear to be there to get this middle aged man to buy a ticket......but then they do this with them?  I'm incapable of moving beyond this approach I guess......but why would I want to?

This is actually a time-honored tradition in comic books and tv sci-fi called "bussing" or "put on the bus", where older characters or actors from the genre (or even from previous iterations of a show) turn up to be chucked under the bus to put new characters over with audiences, which is why I'm surprised to see it embraced by so many creators in this day and age considering all it does is get a quick boost or PR for the bussing, and then the creators have to contend with fans who hate them forever for "ruining" their favorite characters.  I don't know who or what a Boom Boom is, but there seems to be consensus on the incel American comic book forums that Warren Ellis is a terrible writer for his work on him/her/it on NextWave, a comic that came out over a decade ago and was a big deal at the time, but you will notice they don't make anymore.
Bussing is a short-term thing, but in the long term tends to do more damage to a property, hence bussings tend to be retconned within a year or two*, which may give some context to those asking for Last Jedi to be retconned - this is what popular culture has taught them is the process for such things.


* unless the bussing is a gay retcon, which is irreversible and sacred.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 30 July, 2018, 11:15:03 PM
I'm thinking that the retcon may actually begin with episode 9, when it turns out that Luke is NOT dead and we get a fight sequence with lightsabers....

Look out for the trailer next year.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 30 July, 2018, 11:16:54 PM
Indeed, Bear.  As I've rambled many times, the sequels should have been set 100 years after RotJ, and only Force Ghost Luke, and maybe Chewie and the Droids should have been present.  But once they decided to only jump 30 years (because Disney wanted to use the characters they'd paid through the nose for), everyone had to be bussed (and all their good works undone) or the sequels would have to have been their stories - again.  Which would have been daft: where did they have to go, a problem 40 years of novels failed to solve?  Han and Luke's deaths were inevitable the moment Disney signed that big, big cheque.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 30 July, 2018, 11:30:43 PM
I'm not sure about that, as though it might seem that way to the over-40s, Western culture is not quite as youth-obsessed as it often appears, otherwise they wouldn't still be casting Ford or the likes of Bruce Willis - the only reason Qui-Gon isn't churning out Taken sequels is because he put his foot down and said he wasn't going to make any more action films.  People would have watched a theoretical Ford/Hamill/Fisher-centric Sequel Trilogy much as they would have gone on watching Shatner shuffle unconvincingly around the galaxy punching 8-titted catwomen if Paramount hadn't replaced him with the young and buff Patrick Stewart.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 30 July, 2018, 11:33:04 PM
Why were their deaths inevitable? I don't understand that at all. Any writer worth their paycheck could easily work around this. There are a thousand different ways to include them or not include them as much as was needed in the films.

Han had apparently kept well out of the first order issue so far, I'm sure that he could have been used for a film in an entertaining way then sent back out into the galaxy. It only became inevitable that he would die when they wrote him into the corner that they did. Same with Luke. It's a sensationalist tactic cheaply employed,  not some dire narrative requirement.

They could have used all of these characters in a fun and satisfying manner, whilst pushing the new characters to the fore. They just chose not to. To the films detriment.

I'm consistently baffled by the choices lucasfilm have made......some days they just  appear intent on running their own property into the ground.

Again, with the caveat, " in my opinion".

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: GrudgeJohnDeed 30 July, 2018, 11:33:29 PM
I don't think they *had* to bus everyone at all, I would've very much liked to see Luke playing a bigger part in the new arc.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 31 July, 2018, 12:22:08 AM
Indeed, Bear.  As I've rambled many times, the sequels should have been set 100 years after RotJ, and only Force Ghost Luke, and maybe Chewie and the Droids should have been present. 

It was always the ideal, TB, but I believe too many fervent fans would still complain Disney wasted the Sequels by not having show-up –the still living in real life– Han, Leia, Lando, and for them to be badasses like the EU promised.

where did they have to go, a problem 40 years of novels failed to solve?  Han and Luke's deaths were inevitable the moment Disney signed that big, big cheque.

The story idea of a difficult reclamation and putting the Skywalkers into the larger mythical context was the right one, and for me the inverting of it all doesn't lessen in anyway what came before, but it disappoints me they padded-out and avoided vital parts of the literal set-up by using props and tropes that are a little too familiar – compounded by not providing adequate context. The nostalgia decor is fun, but different designs and new situations would've served their cause, and the dynamic they put the original cast in, better.

Star Wars can still have space battles and hero quests without the old imperial technocracy – even though the ersatz Empire and the nod in the direction of a fascist youth, and the role/fate of kids in the legacy of the Rebellion's pyrrhic victory, is a very interesting one. It just could've done with some new clothes.

But for me the success in the Sequels comes down to the character writing and performances; apart from squeaky plotting, some dud lines and flat moments, the majority of the time it feels like they're selling it as best they can, and I hadn't seen the like of that in a Star Wars film for 30 years.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 31 July, 2018, 08:26:09 AM
Any writer worth their paycheck could easily work around this. There are a thousand different ways to include them or not include them as much as was needed in the films.

I'm (obviously) not a writer, but as far as I can see the only other options that include the Big Three at all were a trilogy about three septuagenarian heroes that apparently aren't permitted doubt, failure or moral weakness, one of whom can destroy planets with a raised eyebrow (BADASS LUKE, YAY!); or a trilogy where those same guys lurk about in the background (unchanged from 1983, bar wrinkles) as new characters try to save the galaxy, and everyone wonders why they don't just come centre-stage and defeat the baddies, which they either eventually do (again) or don't (what?!?).

Maybe those could have been written up into something fun.  But I doubt it.  Or at least I doubt that the fan "outrage" would have been any less.

Instead what we got was the application of the basic structural model for the Star Wars saga: an older generation of heroes help/inform the next generation to meet the current conflict, before passing on.  It was the right call (other than not making the bloody things at all). 
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 31 July, 2018, 08:46:21 AM
That's two comments above that allude to making the OT cast members "bad asses". Who wants that?

Han solo pretty much bumbled around the first three films, Luke was not infallible. Nobody wants super bad ass versions of characters that were never super bad asses. If anyone was made a complete bad ass, that wouldn't feel like the original characters either.

I don't think the majority of people who disliked Last Jedi wanted luke to be a bad ass. That is NOT where it went wrong.

Take Force Awakens.......if Kylo had been no relation to Han, and 90% of the rest of the story had played out the same, with han helping the resistance, and at the end he successfully blew up the thingamy without facing Kylo (robbing po of the boring trench run rehash), rey fights Kylo, all escape in the falcon, everyone parts ways. We have had mostly the same film and Han isn't dead. Find the "emotional" connection elsewhere in one of the other characters. In that version, I've had the fun of the OT character and Disney get their nostalgia hit.....why did they need to kill him?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 31 July, 2018, 08:50:59 AM
Take Force Awakens.......if Kylo had been no relation to Han, and 90% of the rest of the story had played out the same, with han helping the resistance, and at the end he successfully blew up the thingamy without facing Kylo (robbing po of the boring trench run rehash), rey fights Kylo, all escape in the falcon, everyone parts ways. We have had mostly the same film, Han isn't dead. Find the "emotional" connection elsewhere in one of the other characters. In that version, I've had the fun of the OT character amd Disney get their nostalgia hit.....why did they need to kill him?

My understanding was that Harrison Ford wanted Solo to die.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 31 July, 2018, 08:53:08 AM
Take Force Awakens.......if Kylo had been no relation to Han, and 90% of the rest of the story had played out the same, with han helping the resistance, and at the end he successfully blew up the thingamy without facing Kylo (robbing po of the boring trench run rehash), rey fights Kylo, all escape in the falcon, everyone parts ways. We have had mostly the same film, Han isn't dead. Find the "emotional" connection elsewhere in one of the other characters. In that version, I've had the fun of the OT character amd Disney get their nostalgia hit.....why did they need to kill him?

My understanding was that Harrison Ford wanted Solo to die.

In 1983 he did. He's denied in a filmed interview that he had anything to do with it in Force Awakens. That was just apparently the script that he was presented with.

I've had that one used a few times now, it's been denied.

As for actors driving how these films pan out, if that was the case maybe Mark Hamill would have had more joy on the set of Last Jedi. He spent the whole production protesting about how they were handling Luke......nobody paid any attention to what he wanted for his character.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 31 July, 2018, 09:13:34 AM
I would preferred if they did not use the original cast and really started from afresh.  The changing of directors and script writers did not help to create a nice balanced story-line.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 31 July, 2018, 09:32:26 AM
That's two comments above that allude to making the OT cast members "bad asses". Who wants that?

The internet, apparently.  Apart from the races and genders of the new characters, and supposedly shocking* deviations from the laws of physics, the absence of a godlike steely-eyed Luke shooting green lightning from his fingers and smiting the Sithly with his unmatched lightsabre skills was one of the main objections to TLJ that I've seen in YouTube video after YouTube video.  The fact that that Ultimate Warrior Luke didn't appear in any other SW films either didn't seem to matter.

SIP, if I understand you, you'd have been happier with the Big Three being wheeled on for nostalgia purposes, and then wheeled off again, unharmed?  Really?  Even Luke?  What would it say about their characters that they didn't give their all to fight until evil was defeated?



*If you'd never watched a Star Wars film before.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 31 July, 2018, 09:43:35 AM
Or to look at just Han: okay, say Han has no existing relationships with any of the characters, he just comes on board to help, quip, get punched, mocked, pull it out of the bag at the last minute, all that good Han stuff.  Then job done, he... leaves? Like he did after dropping Leia at Yavin?  Where does that leave his character, the journey he's been on?  Han's whole thing in the OT is that he learns the value of not walking away alone, of sticking around and being part of family.  Another objection to TFA is that it undoes this very thing by having Han and Chewie off on their own again... but this is shown as an aberration, a backsliding due to emotional pain, and Han's truest course is reestablished.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 31 July, 2018, 09:43:40 AM
In 1983 he did. He's denied in a filmed interview that he had anything to do with it in Force Awakens. That was just apparently the script that he was presented with.

I've had that one used a few times now, it's been denied.


He may not have written it but he openly supported and liked the idea whether it was to happen in Episode 7, 8, 9...

"I think it's a fitting use of the character...I've been arguing for Han Solo to die for about 30 years, not because I was tired of him or because he's boring, but his sacrifice for the other characters would lend gravitas and emotional weight."

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/movies/harrison-ford-why-han-solo-needed-to-die-but-indiana-jones-doesnt-20160323-gnoyk7.html

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 31 July, 2018, 09:46:24 AM
Or to look at just Han: okay, say Han has no existing relationships with any of the characters, he just comes on board to help, quip, get punched, mocked, pull it out of the bag at the last minute, all that good Han stuff.  Then job done, he... leaves? Like he did after dropping Leia at Yavin?  Where does that leave his character, the journey he's been on?

But we join Han when the galaxy is already facing the First Order, and he's off smuggling and swindling......while Leia is carrying on the good fight. So didn't they already establish that wasn't getting involved?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 31 July, 2018, 09:48:16 AM
Bah, sorry SIP, added that point to the previous post while you were typing yours!   :)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 31 July, 2018, 09:48:40 AM
In 1983 he did. He's denied in a filmed interview that he had anything to do with it in Force Awakens. That was just apparently the script that he was presented with.

I've had that one used a few times now, it's been denied.


He may not have written it but he openly supported and liked the idea whether it was to happen in Episode 7, 8, 9...

"I think it's a fitting use of the character...I've been arguing for Han Solo to die for about 30 years, not because I was tired of him or because he's boring, but his sacrifice for the other characters would lend gravitas and emotional weight."

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/movies/harrison-ford-why-han-solo-needed-to-die-but-indiana-jones-doesnt-20160323-gnoyk7.html

Yes, I'm aware that he made those comments, but my argument is that Mark Hamill's protestations of what should happen to his character had no impact on what got made, why do we assume that Harrison Ford's did? His comments had no impact on Lucas during production of Return of the Jedi, and he was a massive star at that point.

And the point still stands, Ford said he had nothing to do with what was included in the scripting of the film. He just did what was given to him.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 31 July, 2018, 09:52:27 AM
Bah, sorry SIP, added that point to the previous post while you were typing yours!   :)

Ha ha, no problem. Somewhere I lost a whole posting!

I was always in agreement with you TB, I didnt want them in the films. They should have started fresh. I think that their general inclusion has been to the detriment of these films.

So yes, "special guest star" appearances all around, except for luke who could have a more significant part, and I'm okay with him dying in the end.....he's effectively immortal anyway after all.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 31 July, 2018, 10:03:28 AM
I was always in agreement with you TB, I didnt want them in the films. They should have started fresh. I think there general inclusion has been to the detriment of these films.

Definitely 100% agreement there.  I suspect this would have been how it went if Lucas had retained control, which might actually have happened if the internet hadn't spent 20 years telling him how much everyone hated everything he touched with his money-grabbing hack's hands. 

However, give the scale of the investment that was necessary to get SW away from Lucas and get movies made again, and the well-established conservative nature of its supposed 'fans', Disney took the sensible course, away from any hint of scary novelty: and to my mind the response to what I consider to be fresh thinking in TLJ shows they had made a shrewd choice.

As it is, I think our current disagreements come down to how flawed and abused we're prepared for our heroes to be, and still enjoy them.  The films allowed me to believe in a Han and Luke utterly broken by their failures with Ben, and believe in their ability to still be themselves, and to find their faith and resolve again.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 31 July, 2018, 10:07:07 AM
In 1983 he did.

Sorry for the misunderstanding; I was referring to the notion that this was only a thought he had in 1983 but it seems he was for it all the time. The writers happened to agree. I've no doubt he would've gone along with whatever he was being paid to do as would Hamill. Hamill's personal caveat was he'd only agree to do the Sequels if Ford agreed to sign on.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 31 July, 2018, 10:09:35 AM
That's hitting the nail on the head TB. I was happy with those characters being left in 1983. I don't want to see them brought low in these new films, it's jarring for me.

If they were to "pop up" in a joyful nostalgia way, then I could accept it "oh look it's han, that loveable rogue!.....bye han"..... but I'm struggling with a new generation of writers/directors dealing out repeated body blows to those characters, and portraying versions of their personalities that are entirely at odds with my own, long held, interpretation.

 It's just sapping any enjoyment that I can get from the films.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 31 July, 2018, 10:53:50 AM
It's just sapping any enjoyment that I can get from the films.

And that really is a shame: enjoyment is what these should represent.  I hope IX does something to reverse the situation for you. 

I didn't think the sequels-as-they-are would do anything for me (still less Solo!), but I think it helps that I have an overwhelming sense of personal failure in my own life, and seeing my childhood heroes experience something similar, resorting to hiding from the world and their families and friends, and then finding a way to return and keep going, and (hopefully) to see their fresh-faced successors triumph in their stead, has worked for me. Far from being depressing, the sequels have become the definition of optimism for me.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 31 July, 2018, 11:07:51 AM
In 1983 he did.

Sorry for the misunderstanding; I was referring to the notion that this was only a thought he had in 1983 but it seems he was for it all the time.

As I understand it, Lucas was the one who wanted to kill off Solo in Jedi, but he "did some tests" (presumably with focus groups or fellow scriptwriters/directors) and the response was hostile so he backtracked on it much as he did with many other ideas for the films, though some snippets of the original plan remain in the Jedi that was shot (Solo commenting "I feel like I'll never see her again" while looking at the Falcon, taking a dive to a gunshot in the Endor attack) and the idea that Solo might have been bumped off then became a fun trivia point about Star Wars in the following years.
How much Ford actually wanted the character to die is debatable because anecdotal evidence from others suggest he was quite happy with his work on Star Wars, and a far more likely scenario given how much JJ Abrams recycled in The Force Awakens from the OT production office bins is that JJ simply wanted to channel some of that pub trivia cache into his movie because JJA's track record in both tv and movies shows that he clearly believes that there's no such thing as "cheap" heat.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: sheridan 31 July, 2018, 11:32:31 AM
My understanding was that Harrison Ford wanted Solo to die.

In 1983 he did.

1980, surely?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 31 July, 2018, 11:38:03 AM
I was always in agreement with you TB, I didnt want them in the films. They should have started fresh. I think there general inclusion has been to the detriment of these films.

Definitely 100% agreement there.  I suspect this would have been how it went if Lucas had retained control, which might actually have happened if the internet hadn't spent 20 years telling him how much everyone hated everything he touched with his money-grabbing hack's hands. 

He began talking to the original trio in August 2012 about returning (he had spent some time working on Sequel outlines) and told them Kennedy would be taking over Lucasfilm and they both began interviewing screenwriters for Episode VII. Just a few months before this, in April 2012, his neighbours ulitmately scuppered plans to expand Lucasfilm's operations so he changed his plans to build affordable housing for low-income families instead. The cast found out in October he was selling to Disney.

After facing strong opposition from Marin County homeowners and environmentalists over the past 25 years, George Lucas has decided to pull the plug on a new Lucasfilm studio facility at Grady Ranch.

The company will now consider offers from other cities to build the Spanish mission-style compound that would have included a 269,000-square-foot digital media studio, two indoor sound stages, a 7,000-square-foot outdoor stage, screening rooms, guest housing, general store, employee cafeteria and wine cave.

“Movies are waiting to be made, and we must move forward,” the company said. “Unfortunately, the projects we had planned to shoot on those stages have already started production and we will need the studio space by early 2013.”


https://variety.com/2012/film/news/lucasfilm-seeks-new-studio-site-1118052497/


https://www.indiewire.com/2012/11/george-lucas-met-with-screenwriters-mark-hamill-carrie-fisher-about-star-wars-7-before-disney-sale-104440/

I believe he did invest himself in the idea of the Sequels with the original cast while he mulled over the sale to Disney but there's a bigger untold story there concerning the transition. A finished manuscript (https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2016/05/swnn-exclusive-full-interview-with-%D0%B0uthor-j-w-rinzler.html) of Rinzler's The Making of The Force Awakens (originally scheduled for release with the art book) documents all this but still remains on a shelf at Lucasfilm. There's been no Making of.. book commissioned for any Disney made Star wars film since...
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 31 July, 2018, 11:42:27 AM
1980, surely?

1980-83.

Ford wanted Han to die in either Empire or Return of the Jedi. As the story goes, Lucas wasn't sure Ford would return at all and unlike the others, his contract was only film by film, so he had him slabbed in carbonite at the end of Empire just in case.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 31 July, 2018, 11:47:26 AM
How much Ford actually wanted the character to die is debatable because anecdotal evidence from others suggest he was quite happy with his work on Star Wars, and a far more likely scenario given how much JJ Abrams recycled in The Force Awakens from the OT production office bins is that JJ simply wanted to channel some of that pub trivia cache into his movie because JJA's track record in both tv and movies shows that he clearly believes that there's no such thing as "cheap" heat.

Ford is happy to be still working. He'd have gone on with whatever they gave him but he never complained about Han being an absent father or falling off a gantry with a smoking hole in his chest. He did reiterate again, though, how he though Han should die.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 31 July, 2018, 11:58:39 AM
He began talking to the original trio in August 2012 about returning (he had spent some time working on Sequel outlines) and told them Kennedy would be taking over Lucasfilm and they both began interviewing screenwriters for Episode VII. Just a few months before this, in April 2012, his neighbours ulitmately scuppered plans to expand Lucasfilm's operations so he changed his plans to build affordable housing for low-income families instead. The cast found out in October he was selling to Disney.

Ah, I'd forgotten most of this, cheers Mr. S!  The absence of anything resembling a "Making of..." I had not missed - we got more, much more, from the Phantom Menace issue of Cinefex than we have for the whole Disney era.  Art books have been nice though!

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 31 July, 2018, 12:11:16 PM
In fact, watching the Phantom Menace DVD documentary again just the other day, I was struck by the almost scary openness at LFL.  I know RLM mock the yes-man attitude and palpable fear of the end product on display, but there is such sincerity of ambition and awareness of the problems on everyone's part, Lucas and McGregor in particular, that the genuine intention to make something great is the main thing I took away.  Berman McCallum seems to be only guy who comes across a bit false, but that may just be his manner. 

You can see Lucas struggling with how to handle Jake Lloyd's performance after championing him at audition (note: not Jake's fault, he's tiny when all this starts), the worry over how central Jar Jar is and confusion of how to deliver him, and the bewilderment in the editing room as George starts pulling elements of shots apart in search of the perfect take, rather than directing the damn thing in the first place.  We even get budget meetings with actual dollar figures attached for every aspect of  a sequence!  It just reinforces my view of TPM as a really magnificent failure, and it's hard to imagine anything being more different from the massaged, soundbited and soundtracked snippets we get from the current productions.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 31 July, 2018, 12:21:59 PM
The problem with Star Wars is that the original trilogy setup a bar that will be difficult to beat or even get close to par on. The original creator is not even remotely involved with the current trilogy. The current movies look great, but it feels empty almost like the people who made them does not understand the universe it exists in. They all say they are fans but typically Hollywood they think they know better and then they make these money-making soulless movies. The worst part is that I will watch the next move in the trilogy.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 31 July, 2018, 12:24:10 PM
The current movies look great, but it feels empty almost like the people who made them does not understand the universe it exists in.

I can believe this of Abrams (I don't think Abrams thinks much beyond what works in the moment, and he's very good at that), but not Johnson: I think he understood exactly how the SW universe worked, but by defining that rather explicitly, he collapsed the waveform and pissed off everyone who understood it differently. 

But as you say, my Episode IX ticket is already sold.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 31 July, 2018, 12:30:44 PM
The current movies look great, but it feels empty almost like the people who made them does not understand the universe it exists in.

I can believe this of Abrams (I don't think Abrams thinks much beyond what works in the moment, and he's very good at that), but not Johnson: I think he understood exactly how the SW universe worked, but by defining that rather explicitly, he collapsed the waveform and pissed off everyone who understood it differently. 

But as you say, my Episode IX ticket is already sold.

I hated what Johnson did with Luke Skywalker. His character felt completely out of touch compared to the original trilogy. Now Abrams  is back on directing the new movie if I am correct ? Who is on writing duties ?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 31 July, 2018, 12:35:24 PM
Now Abrams  is back on directing the new movie if I am correct ? Who is on writing duties ?

Chris Terrio & JJ Abrams (with help from George Lucas, apparently).
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 31 July, 2018, 12:38:59 PM
Johnson: I think he understood exactly how the SW universe worked

I'd agree with that; even down to drawing references to older films rather than just referencing Star Wars – which is what everyone else does.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 03 August, 2018, 10:48:54 PM
Todd Fisher Reveals J. J. Abrams Will Also Incorporate Unused Footage of Carrie Fisher from ‘The Last Jedi’ to Bring Back Leia (https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2018/08/star-wars-episode-ix-exclusive-todd-fisher-reveals-j-j-abrams-will-also-incorporate-unused-footage-of-carrie-fisher-from-the-last-jedi-to-bring-back-leia.html)

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Frank 03 August, 2018, 11:56:27 PM
Todd Fisher Reveals J. J. Abrams Will Also Incorporate Unused Footage of Carrie Fisher from ‘The Last Jedi’ to Bring Back Leia (https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2018/08/star-wars-episode-ix-exclusive-todd-fisher-reveals-j-j-abrams-will-also-incorporate-unused-footage-of-carrie-fisher-from-the-last-jedi-to-bring-back-leia.html)

I read that whole thing in Mike Stoklasa's Nerd Crew (https://youtu.be/FVzc20Bm8Xo) voice.


: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Mardroid 04 August, 2018, 03:37:26 PM
I know this sits badly with a lot of people, but I actually don't mind since they are using actual footage, and as long as it's used in a way that makes sense to the story.

A CGI representation would have been in bad taste, but I think this could be a nice send-off.

I hope they can do it in such a way that it does not feel like it's been crow-barred in, though.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Mister Pops 05 August, 2018, 01:10:43 PM
...in a way that makes sense to the story.


J.J Abrams is making this movie
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Mardroid 05 August, 2018, 01:28:02 PM
...in a way that makes sense to the story.


J.J Abrams is making this movie

Well I’d say he’s got as more good stuff than bad under his belt but granted, I’m not sure long term story planning is his strong suit. I usually find his output interesting, although I might be scratching my head afterwards.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 05 August, 2018, 01:35:02 PM
Let's see how JJ second stint goes. I preferred his take than Johnson take on the story
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Mister Pops 05 August, 2018, 02:02:43 PM
...in a way that makes sense to the story.


J.J Abrams is making this movie

Well I’d say he’s got as more good stuff than bad under his belt but granted, I’m not sure long term story planning is his strong suit. I usually find his output interesting, although I might be scratching my head afterwards.

He can put a buncha likeable characters with great chemistry up on screen, but their motivations are often baffling. Like why is Spock (SPOCK!) trying to cave in Blunderbus Cattletraps face with his bare fists? It's not entirely his fault, it seems like he just directs whatever is in the script he's given. Scripts that mostly seem to be written by Kurtzmann and Orci, a pair whose continual employment on high profile projects is almost as confounding as one of their screenplays.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Mardroid 05 August, 2018, 02:14:48 PM
Let's see how JJ second stint goes.

I agree.

I preferred his take than Johnson take on the story

I enjoyed both of the sequel films, although I found the galactic geography* and the political nature** of the universe a bit confusing in The Force Awakens.

And having recently rewatched The Last Jedi on blu-ray, I think it’s a really good film. I have mixed feelings concerning Luke’s death, but I think it held up very well as a whole. I do understand why many didn’t like it, which largely seems to bog down to it not fulfilling fans plot-expectations but I’d argue that might not be bad thing.

I’d even see Finn and cos’ excursion as not being a waste of time (something brought up a lot as to ‘why tLJ is a bad film) despite they’re mission ultimately failing. Plots not going to plan is a staple of good story telling, and they did a good thing in breaking up that casino and giving hope to the slaves there, and setting free those beasts. (A great creature design, by the way.) One of the main messages of this film is to rekindle hope, and indeed, The Rebellion.

The level of vitriol on the internet in response to tLJ is shocking though. Or maybe not, considering it’s the internet. Not so much here, where discussion is largely civilised.

*A contradiction, in terms, I’m aware, since geography pertains to a specific world. I’m referring to the position of the planets considering the destruction of Republic worlds were viewable from the characters’ current position. Maybe the super-superlaser opens wormholes or some such, and we’re seeing through them?  ‘Astronomy’ might have been a better term here, but that’s not quite right either as that’s more a study of the cosmos rather than the location of planets in relation to each other... although that’s part of it.

** Tordelback and other’s explanation did ease my confusion, but I think it would have been simpler to just have the resistance ships as republic craft, if they’re not going to provide an explanation in the film. The idea that the Republic are reluctant to take action against the First Order, or at least don’t want to be seen to be, does make sense of the resistance shenanigans. Maybe they left out the lengthier explanation so the film didn’t get bogged down with political waffle (although an extra line in the scrolling intro-text would have sufficed for that) but then they could have just made the republic a bit more militant.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 05 August, 2018, 02:33:39 PM
The level of vitriol on the internet in response to tLJ is shocking though. Or maybe not, considering it’s the internet. Not so much here, where discussion is largely civilised.

Movie companies deliberately engineer the visibility of outrageous and vitriolic responses to their movies now because there's no downside: their movie gets promoted and the movie's critics are tarred as unreasonable manbabies - I mean, sure the odd actor gets chased off the internet by racists who want to kill and rape them, but that's not Disney's problem.

Like why is Spock (SPOCK!) trying to cave in Blunderbus Cattletraps face with his bare fists?

Spock wants REVENNNNNNNGE, of course - like everyone else in JJA's Trek movies.  It's so bad that when Kirk wasn't motivated by revenge, his arc was that he didn't know what to do with himself - so he ended up fighting someone who wanted revenge.

My problem with JJA doing Episode 9 is that so much of Episode 8 was a deliberate reaction to and rejection of what JJA did in Episode 7 and I don't think JJA has the creative self-awareness to follow up on it.  I suspect that Episode 9 will be the disappointment of a generation, so I expect Disney to push hard on the idea that its critics are a hive mind of anti-progressives.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 05 August, 2018, 06:24:04 PM
I think the statement that episode 8 is a deliberate reaction and rejection to everything done in episode 7 says it all about the whole sorry Star Wars mess. What company allows a franchise "Part 2" film to be made that is perceived to be a complete rejection of its own  "Part 1"?

Surely anyone can see that's not a positive thing.

It was stated up thread that most people who don't like episode 8, don't like it because it effectively didn't fulfil the expectation that "we" had. Not the case at all. This also seems to be a mainstay of the pro-episode 8 team. That the rest of us had some preconceived notion of luke and how it should all play out.  Not so. I didn't like it because I thought it was poorly written , poorly paced, with dull character arcs and storyline. It also completely misfires on its main characters. I had no expectations other than  hoping that it would be a good film. I didn't think it was. It's as straight forward as that.

Most people that I talk to who do not like episode 8 do not belong to  this strange "I want super luke kicking ass" faction that is constantly brought up. But most Last Jedi fans appear to think that you need to be in that minority group if for some unknown reason you don't like the film. I can accept plenty of people like it, others need to accept that plenty of balanced, reasonable and intelligent people also really do not like it .

I'm sure you'll all be happy to hear that I'm feeling a lot more zen about last jedi.....I've turned over a new leaf and have now decided to stop letting it ruin each day that it gets mentioned.  ;)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 05 August, 2018, 09:08:01 PM
My problem with JJA doing Episode 9 is that so much of Episode 8 was a deliberate reaction to and rejection of what JJA did in Episode 7 and I don't think JJA has the creative self-awareness to follow up on it.

I think it's a bit unlikely that Lucasfilm and/or Disney haven't insisted on the two lads working together since Treverrow departed, or indeed didn't think about it between VII and VIII (regardless of what Abrams and Johnson might say about their creative freedom), especially given the chopping and changing over of directors over the last few years.  I also don't see TLJ as a rejection of TFA, so much as a very clever continuation.

My main worry about IX, apart from the pressure for dull conservative fan-service, is that Abrams is definitely the man you want to start up a series, but far less so the man you'd ask to finish one.  Maybe Ron Howard will step in!
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: The Legendary Shark 05 August, 2018, 09:16:25 PM

Just so long as things explode. I love it when things explode, especially big things.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 05 August, 2018, 09:21:14 PM

Just so long as things explode. I love it when things explode, especially big things.

Fingers crossed for a big space station with a super laser.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 05 August, 2018, 09:34:09 PM

Just so long as things explode. I love it when things explode, especially big things.

Fingers crossed for a big space station with a super laser.

Biggest surprise possible for IX would be that there isn't one!  Or that if there is, Rose builds it for  the Resistance: "That's how we are going to win. Not fighting what we hate, but but blowing it up with a ruddy big superlaser. Of love".
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 05 August, 2018, 09:41:03 PM
I can only assume those who feel The Last Jedi is a rejection of the main points of The Force Awakens expected other resolutions to what was presented to them; but to me it resolved those key things in ways that were both revealing and have the of course factor i.e. it didn't contradict but stayed true to the Luke hinted at in Han's words: "...one boy, an apprentice, turned against him and destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible. He just...walked away from everything." and gave an answer as to why this would be the case for someone who decided to just up and run away several years ago.
Kylo carried out his vow: "Show me… Grandfather… and I will finish… what you started." by killing his master; and Rey, revealed as not having a familial connection to anyone, was given some much needed depth and relatability which the Skywalker factor can hinder.

The Last Jedi has other issues but it met the key questions head on.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Steve Green 05 August, 2018, 09:46:46 PM

Just so long as things explode. I love it when things explode, especially big things.

Fingers crossed for a big space station with a super laser.

Biggest surprise possible for IX would be that there isn't one!  Or that if there is, Rose builds it for  the Resistance: "That's how we are going to win. Not fighting what we hate, but but blowing it up with a ruddy big superlaser. Of love".

Rose becomes Saddam Hussein in Big Dave? Bold move.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 05 August, 2018, 09:48:40 PM
Biggest surprise possible for IX would be that there isn't one!  Or that if there is, Rose builds it for  the Resistance: "That's how we are going to win. Not fighting what we hate, but but blowing it up with a ruddy big superlaser. Of love".

I was expecting the Resistance to do that by capturing Starkiller base but my expectations were 'subverted'.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 05 August, 2018, 10:35:37 PM
I can only assume those who feel The Last Jedi is a rejection of the main points of The Force Awakens expected other resolutions to what was presented to them

I obviously can't speak for others, but as the person who brought this up on the thread, I personally meant the allusions to historical/heroic cycles, the perpetuation of failed systems, and enabling never ending conflict in which the tropes of Star Wars are central.  TLJ's assertion that the Jedi are stuck in some kind of storytelling Groundhog Day really only works in the context of commentary on TFA, because there were no cycles of failure across two trilogies of movies (OT and PT) as one was simply calling back to the other - where they became unhelpful tropes was when TFA went to the same well unironically, something for which it was both lambasted and praised.  In other words, twice is just coincidence, but three times is a cycle, and that brings the focus back to TFA and how TLJ's characters must reject what it enshrines.
I suppose the best example is Rey's parentage: in the context of the fiction, the revelation that Rey's parents were nobodies is unimportant and what is significant for her emotionally is that they were never coming back for her, but that's not what the fans, the discussion of the film, or even the film itself prioritises - Rey's reaction is to the debunking of the fan theory that she had a famous sire, which I feel compelled to point out technically wasn't even in TFA unless you take a very literal meaning of Maz Kanata's deliberately cryptic comments about laser swords finding their way around.*

Understand, none of this is to suggest that in acknowledging or rejecting elements of its predecessor The Last Jedi is passing judgement on The Force Awakens so much as that Rian Johnson was running with the ball he'd been passed.  TLJ still works if you want it to.


* The assumption being that Anakin's lightsaber found its way to Rey because it was hers by lineage, rather than finding its way to her in order to bring her to Luke.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Magnetica 06 August, 2018, 12:07:32 AM
I usually find his output interesting, although I might be scratching my head afterwards.

Sounds like a fair summary of Lost.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 06 August, 2018, 06:00:03 AM
Understand, none of this is to suggest that in acknowledging or rejecting elements of its predecessor The Last Jedi is passing judgement on The Force Awakens so much as that Rian Johnson was running with the ball he'd been passed.  TLJ still works if you want it to.

I want it to work for me but TLJ feels like a movie with great action scenes, grand scenario and cool CGI with lazy writing (if I can quote Deadpool here). As I said previously I do not mind some humour in my movie but your main general becomes the comic relieve, really ?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Tiplodocus 07 August, 2018, 11:50:57 PM
Watched Last Jedi again tonight and really enjoyedcit again. My favourite laugh is still when the unreconstructed Poe says "So then we blow it up?".

Top marks to supporting cast. Tordels already mentioned Arkady (especially his look just at his very end) but there are a whole slew of unnamed Resistance guys and gals who sketch likeable characters from very little in the way of lines.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Tiplodocus 07 August, 2018, 11:51:32 PM
Plus the Porg get better on every viewing.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 08 August, 2018, 01:11:34 AM
The bit that establishes the tone for me, straight out of Billie Lourde's rather fine "Oh no", is still Ade Edmonson's gleeful "We've caught them in the middle of their evacuation".  It's magnificently brazen, 100% Eddie Hitler, reassures that Johnson knows exactly what he's doing, and is streets ahead of the forced humour and fart jokes of the prequels: I still shudder when I think of McGregor's inexplicable fake laughter in the opening lift scene in AotC.  Anyway, it ensures I start the movie each time with a massive grin on my face, and it stays there.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: James Stacey 08 August, 2018, 09:13:51 AM
That was Ade Edmondson ? Bloody hell.. totally missed that.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 08 August, 2018, 09:43:03 AM
You'll get no argument from me on the awful forced-humour of the prequels, they are indeed shudder inducing.

I'm not sure if an "evacuation" joke followed by a bizarre telephone call "your momma" joke to our comedy pantomime general offered me any reassurance that Johnson knew exactly what he was doing, it only showed that he was as clueless on the tone of humour as George was on the prequels, broadly aiming it at the same level.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: IndigoPrime 08 August, 2018, 10:14:26 AM
Or in the Edmonson case that he was a fan of his previous work, and realised a fun way of sneaking in a suitably silly joke that people who realised who the actor was would be really happy with.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 08 August, 2018, 10:19:48 AM
Or in the Edmonson case that he was a fan of his previous work, and realised a fun way of sneaking in a suitably silly joke that people who realised who the actor was would be really happy with.

It's not exactly subtle though is it? How are either of those jokes less childish or irritating to a general audience than a fart joke. Just as cringeworthy from my seat.

And sadly Star wars has become cameo appearance territory now.

I'm officially depressed with all things star wars post 1983. It's mostly a sliding scale from average to poor.  I'm going back into my corner now to play with Kenner star wars figures and remember when this stuff used to have some heart.

I clearly need to stop "contributing" to these threads.....for everyone's sake.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 08 August, 2018, 11:10:59 AM
Sorry SIP, genuinely don't mean to cause you daily distress with my Sequel commenting addiction.

I don't see Ade as a gratuitous cameo, he's great as Hux's No. 2 (hur-hur-hur), a memorable little character and - as noted - largely unrecognised.  Other minor cameos in the sequels are completely unrecognisable (Daniel Craig and Simon Pegg in TFA), or blink-and-you'll-miss-it backgrounders (Lilly Cole, Edgar Wright and Joe Cornish in TLJ).  I can't begrudge appearances SW family members like Gareth Edwards and Chelsea Hamill, that's a tradition that goes back to Ralph McQuarrie and Richard Marquand, and latterly the Lucases.  And Warwick Davis gets an auto-pass.

OTH Joseph Gordon-Levitt's annoying Neighbourhood Watch Abednedo on Canto Bight sticks out like a sore thumb, terrible choice of performance.  I miss the days when almost all the aliens (and droids) in SW had a made-up language, instead of funny accents.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 08 August, 2018, 11:36:22 AM
Sorry SIP, genuinely don't mean to cause you daily distress with my Sequel commenting addiction.

Oh, don't worry TB, you aren't causing me daily distress, that is all entirely self-inflicted!

It is a subject that I'm very passionate about, and I think that whenever I'm debating Star Wars I'm perhaps too forward in my point of view. I'm concerned that I'm coming across badly and losing my points in my endless rambles.

I am genuinely happy that Star Wars is continuing to bring joy to people (it's my older brothers obsession), that is a positive thing.

I often read these debates and wonder if I'm missing something.......I am a person always happy to be persuaded by a solid argument, or at the least be enlightened by others perspectives.

I'm failing to see the light on the majority of the new Star Wars output, even worse than that, I'm now feeling increasingly jaded towards the prequels too. That appears to be a result of the new trilogy, along with Rogue One and Rebels, chipping away at my ability to overlook the glaring issues with those films.

Star wars appears to have lost all of its joy, though Solo gave me some welcome respite from that. I feel irritated and fed up with it most of the time now and spend more time in arguments about it than is healthy for a 45 year old man!

I've just heard the Favreau series is to be set on Mandalore. I should be excited.....I would have been 5 years ago. My immediate thought was negative.

On the face of it, it would appear that these films just aren't intended for the middle-aged original Star Wars fans, so I think it's probably advisable for me to stop passing comment on something that just clearly isn't for me, and let those who love them carry on  having a good time.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 08 August, 2018, 12:00:28 PM
I've just heard the Favreau series is to be set on Mandalore. I should be excited.....I would have been 5 years ago. My immediate thought was negative.

Heh, mine too. I find everything about Mandalore boring, with the exceptions of Obi-Wan's relationship with Satine and the KotR game (and comic).  Still, I wonder if this isn't just lazy scribblers equating Favreau's Pre Vizla character with his new project. 

Incidentally, Favreau's Rio Durant in Solo is another character who would have benefited from a voice performance that offered something more alien than Brookyln.  He's a great character, gone too soon*, but he always seemed one line away from reminiscing about the lox and bagels at Gottlieb's. 


*You can add Val to that statement - it's unfortunate that the spin-off movies seem to have made a practice of sketching out interesting new characters shortly before killing them.  In the case of Solo, Qi'Ra, Enfys Nest and maybe Moloch (but he's a bit ho-hum) are the only survivors for future adventures.  In Rogue One, no-one at all. Think of the lost potential for further adventures of Rio, Chirrut and Baze, General Merrick (Blue Leader)... Not a great way to broaden the franchise.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 08 August, 2018, 12:04:34 PM
I've just heard the Favreau series is to be set on Mandalore. I should be excited.....I would have been 5 years ago. My immediate thought was negative.

Heh, mine too. I find everything about Mandalore boring, with the exceptions of Obi-Wan's relationship with Satine and the KotR game (and comic).  Still, I wonder if this isn't just lazy scribblers equating Favreau's Pre Vizla character with his new project. 

Incidentally, Favreau's Rio Durant in Solo is another character who would have benefited from a voice performance that offered something more alien than Brookyln.  He's a great character, gone too soon, but he always seemed one line away from reminiscing about the lox and bagels at Gottlieb's.

Kotor Mandalore was absolutely the way to go with this......that would have generated a lot of excitement and would provide some much needed distance from the skywalker era. I believe it's set 3 years after Return of the Jedi though.

I think Favreau will do a good job......so my fingers are crossed.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Frank 08 August, 2018, 09:31:43 PM

Star Wars IX* guaranteed to win Academy Award: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-45115581


* ... and every subsequent Star Wars movie, unless Chris Nolan has a film out that year
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: sheridan 09 August, 2018, 09:23:04 AM
‘Astronomy’ might have been a better term here, but that’s not quite right either as that’s more a study of the cosmos rather than the location of planets in relation to each other... although that’s part of it.


Planetology?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: radiator 15 August, 2018, 11:42:28 PM
The humour was probably the single weakest element of TLJ for me. I like humour in an action adventure film, but I also think it's important to know when it's appropriate and when to ease off on it. (I think the Marvel movies are generally pretty good at this). But there's no consistency to the approach and tone of the humour in TLJ - it seems like they're just throwing everything at the wall in a slightly sweaty, desperate way to endear the film to the audience. The steam iron bit was downright bizarre - on a level with Chewie's Tarzan impression in Jedi as just seeming really out of place and distracting. A very odd choice.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 16 August, 2018, 06:57:23 AM
That should be the tagline on the movie poster:

Star wars : The Last Jedi "A very odd choice".

 :D
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Hawkmumbler 17 August, 2018, 12:00:43 PM
Well I loved The Last Jedi, controversial I know.

Hopefully Episode 9 can continue the trend.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 17 August, 2018, 12:54:06 PM
Well I loved The Last Jedi, controversial I know.

And if it works for the quality-conscious unpronouncable Japanese robot-suit crowd,  you know it's good!  ;)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 17 August, 2018, 01:09:02 PM
Well I loved The Last Jedi, controversial I know.

Hopefully Episode 9 can continue the trend.

I don't think it's "controversial" to like it.....lots of people do.....you're safe I think.

Well, as long as you stay off all social media platforms and YouTube......its juat best all arpund not to tell "them"  ;)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 17 August, 2018, 01:16:42 PM
Apologies for the inexplicable typos.....my phone is always very keen to swap real words for complete nonsense. That's my excuse anyway.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 17 August, 2018, 02:34:36 PM
Apologies for the inexplicable typos.....my phone is always very keen to swap real words for complete nonsense. That's my excuse anyway.

Don't worry your post was better constructed than the script for The Last Jedi  :D
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 17 August, 2018, 05:11:37 PM
Don't worry your post was better constructed than the script for The Last Jedi  :D

 :lol:
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: auxlen 17 August, 2018, 06:29:53 PM
Will not be going to see. I didn't go to see Solo because 8 was sooo boring and directionless ( i still don't understand how rebels can jump ship for a side quest) but 9 can get tae fook! I'm OK with a lot of the new crap but Poppins and Holdo and Rian Johnson...nope.

I understand that they are trying to garner the next gen of fans but its too soon to alienate the old guard
At least DR who took a few seasons to utterly alienate the old guard (IMHO)....

All my opinion...I'm not spitting the dummy out etc...just moved on....Nu SW is not meant for me...
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 17 August, 2018, 07:38:35 PM
Well, comment-thread opinions are in on the Resistance trailer, and. Dear. God. Nooo! It's for KIDS!  What are Disney thinking, SW cartoons for kids.  The monsters

My favourite dismissal: "Dave Filoni is barely involved in this".  Because after all he was fully involved in Clone Wars and Rebels, and those were for adults.  Weren't they?  I mean I'm sure I don't remember anyone giving out about the animation style, childish storylines, bratty characters in those...

Star Wars 'fans', at this point I'm almost done with them.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Tjm86 17 August, 2018, 09:52:44 PM
Don't worry your post was better constructed than the script for The Last Jedi  :D

 :lol:

Brexit was better constructed than The Last Jedi.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Hawkmumbler 17 August, 2018, 10:13:23 PM
Well I loved The Last Jedi, controversial I know.

And if it works for the quality-conscious unpronouncable Japanese robot-suit crowd,  you know it's good!  ;)
The Last Jedi is just Do You Remember Love with less cool space battles.

Your slight has turned me to the darkside, Tordels!*


*I jest of course.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 17 August, 2018, 10:22:49 PM
Well, comment-thread opinions are in on the Resistance trailer, and. Dear. God. Nooo! It's for KIDS!  What are Disney thinking, SW cartoons for kids.  The monsters

My favourite dismissal: "Dave Filoni is barely involved in this".  Because after all he was fully involved in Clone Wars and Rebels, and those were for adults.  Weren't they?  I mean I'm sure I don't remember anyone giving out about the animation style, childish storylines, bratty characters in those...

Star Wars 'fans', at this point I'm almost done with them.

I do MOSTLY  agree with you TB.....and I think Rebels is almost entirely child focussed....but I would say that large chunks of Clone wars were quite adult in tone and I think Clone wars represented a more mixed age range audience.

The trailer for the new cartoon is definitely not for me. One for the under 10's I think.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 17 August, 2018, 10:40:02 PM
Well, comment-thread opinions are in on the Resistance trailer, and. Dear. God. Nooo!

Has the Freemaker Adventures ever made it to these shores?  I didn't catch much of it, but what I did seemed quite amusing, and acutely aware of Star Wars' more overused themes and tropes.

Like many, I had hopes when Tha Diz dropped the words "anime style" in relation to Resistance it would mean something closer to 2d hand-drawn animation - you know, anime - rather than the cheapo 3d modeled cel-coloured method that originated from European animation studios like Attitude - whose Skyland is a gorgeous show to look at, but a case study in how that means naff all without a coherent narrative voice and consistent dramatic tone ala Avatar or Korra.  The exuberance on display in the SWR trailer seems to suggest a lack of sophistication more than "childishness", as some very childish shows of recent years (Stephen Universe, Gravity Falls, Teen Titans Go!) have shown an unexpected maturity to compliment their ebullience that one might see as a mirror image of the live-action Star Wars' latter turn towards mumblecore bathos.
Mind you it's a fuckin cartoon for babies and we've got Clone Wars back and that'll probably be full of people getting laser knives jammed in their guts - I don't think anyone who wants grimdark in their SW has really got much to complain about.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Jim_Campbell 17 August, 2018, 11:02:04 PM
.....and I think Rebels is almost entirely child focussed....

I really enjoyed Rebels. Yes, the animation style was a little simplistic but it was smart and engaging, and often very well-written. As a grown man who hasn’t really given much of a shit about Star Wars for thirty-odd years, Rebels gave me a number of Star Wars geek thrills that I wasn’t expecting to feel… from the appearance of Obi Wan to the presence of Rex and the Clone Wars veterans. I thought the ratio of duff episodes compared very favourably to Clone Wars.

Just because something doesn’t contain material that is inappropriate for children doesn’t mean that it’s exclusively for children. This is the sort of bollocks that people trot out as an argument against ‘all ages’ comics.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 17 August, 2018, 11:06:50 PM
.....and I think Rebels is almost entirely child focussed....

I really enjoyed Rebels. Yes, the animation style was a little simplistic but it was smart and engaging, and often very well-written. As a grown man who hasn’t really given much of a shit about Star Wars for thirty-odd years, Rebels gave me a number of Star Wars geek thrills that I wasn’t expecting to feel… from the appearance of Obi Wan to the presence of Rex and the Clone Wars veterans. I thought the ratio of duff episodes compared very favourably to Clone Wars.

Just because something doesn’t contain material that is inappropriate for children doesn’t mean that it’s exclusively for children. This is the sort of bollocks that people trot out as an argument against ‘all ages’ comics.

Tha wasnt my point at all......from my view, the stories just played to a younger audience. The series felt like it was aiming at a younger audience than clone wars.  That doesn't bother me at all, I'm happy for all Star Wars to be aimed wherever it's aimed, I just didn't personally enjoy it.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 17 August, 2018, 11:23:18 PM
... large chunks of Clone wars were quite adult in tone ...

Large chunks certainly, but by no means all, or even most. I'm currently watching the 5th Season with my son, and while there are plenty of complex intense arcs, there's also an 8-episode block in the middle where we follow Younglings playing Treasure Island, then a gang of comedy droids  led by a incompetent bombastic frog.  The (serious) episode where the Jedi Temple is bombed features a Crime Scene Investigation droid called (for no in-story reason) Russo, who keeps taking his robo-shades on and off.  Clearly this Dave Filoni is the natural heir to Vittorio de Sica.

Now I like these silly stories, probably because I'm capable of enjoying material that doesn't include a certain number of decapitations per act, but for that too-vocal section of fandom to suddenly decide that they didn't abhor Ashoka, demanded Lucas stopped interfering, and moaned incessantly about cutesy story arcs on every available forum...

I have zero problem with Star Wars cartoons being made for kids, and I fully expect to watch this. Although I suspect the realisation that - yet again - pretty much all these characters will be dead by the end of Episode VIII is going to be a downer.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 17 August, 2018, 11:48:54 PM


In terms of general content, Rebels skews a bit younger than The Clone Wars, but it hews much closer to the tone parameters of the original films than any other Star Wars release.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 18 August, 2018, 10:46:57 AM
S'right.  My eldest was 2-and-a-bit when The Clone Wars came out, too young to see it in the cinema, but we he watched, and loved, the cartoons from the time he was 3. He still loves them at 12, and can't wait for the 'new' season. 

Rebels came out when he was 8, and while he enjoyed watching it, it was never really his thing - the main character was a kid, and there weren't enough Clones, even when Rex, Wolfe and Gregor showed up.  (I liked it a lot, especially the McQuarrie aesthetic, and the mystical bits).  He already knew what he wanted from SW and this wasn't really it.

At the ripe old age of 12 he took one look at the Resistance trailer and condemned it as being 'for kids' (although I'm sure he'll watch it with me nonetheless, he likes to humour the elderly). 

This is how it should be.  You have your own bit of Star Wars, pitched perfectly when you are the right age (for me that Star Destroyer overhead at 6, for my son, the Second Battle of Geonosis at 3), you enjoy others, and some bits just aren't for you: they're for someone else.  I was thrilled to find that TLJ was another SW moment that worked perfectly for me - but I didn't expect it.

Going on the internet and systematically down-voting, 'boycotting' and bitching about something that may not be for you before it's even aired, IMO largely because you've been sucked into some kind of quasi-hysterical socio-politically motivated group-think... This one isn'y for you, move the fuck along, find some rape-porn and dig in. I honestly think I'm completely done with modern 'fandom'. It's beyond pathetic, and its starting to make me dread every new release, rather than looking forward to it.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 28 September, 2018, 09:57:45 PM
The twitter-storm will be EPIC.

Lucasfilm’s Kathleen Kennedy Gets 3-Year Contract Extension (https://deadline.com/2018/09/kathleen-kennedy-contract-extension-lucasfilm-star-wars-1202473246/)

Looks like that Rian Johnson trilogy is still a go.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 28 September, 2018, 10:29:21 PM
B-b-b-ut, all the True Fans told me on their YouTube channels that Secret Lucasfilm Sources had confirmed her having been fired on multiple occasions... She must have threatened Bob Iger that she'd tell everyone he dropped the hand at the Christmas party.  It's Me Too 3rd Wave Feminism PC Cuck Madness! 
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 28 September, 2018, 10:52:56 PM
Cosplayers with connections.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: sheridan 28 September, 2018, 11:22:35 PM
Going on the internet and systematically down-voting, 'boycotting' and bitching about something that may not be for you before it's even aired, IMO largely because you've been sucked into some kind of quasi-hysterical socio-politically motivated group-think... This one isn'y for you, move the fuck along, find some rape-porn and dig in. I honestly think I'm completely done with modern 'fandom'. It's beyond pathetic, and its starting to make me dread every new release, rather than looking forward to it.
It's fairly easy to avoid all that negativity - to be honest I think I could cut it out completely if I don't follow the links from threads like this one.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Tiplodocus 29 September, 2018, 09:02:21 AM
Yep. If the thumbnail has a person pulling at their hair in frustration, don't Watch it. Don't read comments sections.


I must have missed where it said Johnson's trilogy was still on. Another Indy movie seems a mistake though unless there's some good baton passing and it goes all M:I on the stuntwork.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 29 September, 2018, 09:10:47 AM
Well,  no. You basically have to avoid ALL online content relating to SW, with very few exceptions. Imagine if the second post of every thread on here claimed Matt Smith was worse than Hitler,  every story since Rebellion took over was shit, the inclusion of Judges Anderson and Giant was a liberal feminazi conspiracy to destroy the white race and we should boycott the comic until Steve McManus comes back: that's where we're at. As I've been involved in SW discussions on the internet since the days of Listserv, long before I discovered alt.comics.2000AD, it's a bit galling to feel I now have to avoid all news and comment on the subject to prevent the red mist descending.

Meanwhile,  I've been devouring the rather antiseptic bonus content on the Solo Blu-ray,  and doing episodic rewatches - for all its issues, it really is just great fun. Disney could do worse than get Howard, the Kasdans and the rather excellent Bradford Young on to Solo 2 toot-sweet.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 29 September, 2018, 09:24:32 AM
I'm really pleased that the Indy film is still a potential, my heart sunk when they delayed it. Fingers well and truly crossed that it still happens with Harrison, not particularly interested without him though.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 29 September, 2018, 10:20:26 AM
Have to agree there. I thought KotCS worked well as a happy ending,  but I also think TFA and Bladerunner 2049 showed that Ford can still cut a rug. I'm sure we'll have Indy movies in the future starring Pete Davidson or whoever,  and I'm sure I couldn't care less, but while we still have the main man we should make hay - Indiana Jones and the Age of Aquarius rather appeals.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 29 September, 2018, 11:50:11 AM
Have to agree there. I thought KotCS worked well as a happy ending,  but I also think TFA and Bladerunner 2049 showed that Ford can still cut a rug. I'm sure we'll have Indy movies in the future starring Pete Davidson or whoever,  and I'm sure I couldn't care less, but while we still have the main man we should make hay - Indiana Jones and the Age of Aquarius rather appeals.

I really thought he was excellent in BR2049, as good a performance as he's ever done.

Indy has eclipsed Star Wars as my number one nerd love (I saw Raiders with a live orchestra the other week, that was great), and the prospect of one more Spielberg/Lucas/Ford film is really exciting.

I'm sure that they can write a great film for old Indy, absolutely no reason why not......so I really hope that the project gets some traction now after the previous worrying announcement that production was being put back for 1 year. Obviously Ford isn't getting any younger, and it would be sad if this was a missed opportunity.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Tiplodocus 29 September, 2018, 12:19:01 PM
Actually, yeah. I'm being ageist. Ford could still take me in a fight. Karen Allen probably too.

And I'm doing a 10k tomorrow where doubtless I'll be outrun by men and women with 20 years on me.

The right script and staging will do it.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: The Legendary Shark 29 September, 2018, 12:45:14 PM

Indiana Jones and the Onset of Arthritis.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 29 September, 2018, 01:38:08 PM

Indiana Jones and the Onset of Arthritis.

Damn, he's doing well at 76 if that's the case......that got me in my early 40's!
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: The Legendary Shark 29 September, 2018, 02:38:16 PM

Ouch, sorry to hear that, Sip.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 29 September, 2018, 02:57:20 PM
Imagine if the second post of every thread on here claimed Matt Smith was worse than Hitler,  every story since Rebellion took over was shit, the inclusion of Judges Anderson and Giant was a liberal feminazi conspiracy to destroy the white race and we should boycott the comic until Steve McManus comes back

This sounds a bit familiar - wasn't there some kind of rant at Andy Diggle for putting Muslims in a story as  protagonists instead of suicidal terrorists or something, back in the early 2000s?  I also recall being a bit dubious about the prospect of Rebellion taking over the book around the time one of the comics was doing a game tie-in of some description.
Anyway, this kind of stuff is part and parcel of unfiltered fandom, it's just that negative publicity can be - and is - monetised now.  Algorithms will always point you towards something meant to prompt engagement, so not to pass the buck or anything, but it's down to us to be more critical and not reward trolling and clickbait.  Installing extensions like Ghostler or Privacy Badger also help a little in defunding clickfarms.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 29 September, 2018, 03:28:47 PM

Ouch, sorry to hear that, Sip.

Never mind, such is life! Worse things happen at sea etc etc :)  though I could have done without it in my drawing hand!

He's definitely having trouble with his legs I think....he looks a little awkward in blade runner at times, but for 76.....the old guy seems to be holding up well!
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 29 September, 2018, 03:35:47 PM
He's definitely having trouble with his legs I think....

A Millenium Falcon door would cripple lesser men.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 29 September, 2018, 03:37:07 PM
I also recall being a bit dubious about the prospect of Rebellion taking over the book around the time one of the comics was doing a game tie-in of some description.

Testify!  But boys oh boys were we wrong about that one - and the only tie-in of recent years I'd happily see turned into a regular strip.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 29 September, 2018, 03:39:58 PM
He's definitely having trouble with his legs I think....

A Millenium Falcon door would cripple lesser men.

Excellent point! And so would a plane crash.....
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Krakajac 01 October, 2018, 04:18:20 AM
Sean Connery’s age and academic personality/character worked well in The Last Crusade.  No reason why Ford can’t do the ‘older bloke’ routine as well...perhaps with slightly more emphasis on using brains rather than brawn?  Certainly - include elements of physicality and punch-ups where possible - it’s always great to see a guy of Ford’s age/health doing his thing!

Case in point about using brains - the ending of KOTCS was woeful.  Indy essentially telling everyone, “let’s get out of here”.  Cue running out of temple as it collapses.  End.  In the next movie would like to see Indy actually using his knowledge of archaeology to save the day (see ROTLA and TLC - closing of eyes, solving of Grail puzzles, etc.).

Next movie really needs to be 100% stand-alone.  No reprising characters, no family story arcs.  No Easter eggs and minimal fanboy nods/winks to the audience.  See Temple of Doom - much maligned in the old days - but my clear favourite of all four Indy movies.  The opening musical number/fight, Short Round, the ‘spike sequence’, REAL rope-bridge shenanigans, Indy being zombified - and coming ‘back to life’ at the last moment - real emotion between SR and Indy.  Awesome stuff.  It had the ‘freshness’ of something like the ‘Flash Gordon’ movie.  Would be great if Spielberg/Lucas can look outside the box for the next movie...
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 01 October, 2018, 08:49:40 AM
I love Temple Of Doom. My relationship with it is much like my relationship with Return of the Jedi.....I can appreciate that Empire is the better film, but I'm more attached to Jedi. I appreciate Raiders is the better film.....but I have a real attachment to Temple of Doom. I've never understood why people rate is so harshly, it's non stop fun.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 01 October, 2018, 09:00:23 AM
'Course Connery was 57 when he made Last Crusade, and Ford is 76... But I take the point! 

Not sure running away from a collapsing Akator is much less archaeological than running away from a collapsing Canyon of the Crescent Moon,  or indeed racing a mine carriage out of the mines of Pankot Palace to be rescued by the British army, and his insight at the climax of Raiders seems rather more Sunday School than Kathleen Kenyon (not to imply it isn't the perfect end to a perfect film) . Despite this, I think our hopes for Indy V are broadly similar!
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 01 October, 2018, 09:07:56 AM
I guess it all depends on whether Disney has long term plans for the character. If they are looking to kick off a new series of action adventure films, then "old man thinks" might not be what they are after. I would be more than happy with it (in fact in film prospects, this is what I'm looking forward to most of any future films), but they may want to shoot for a new generation of fans, much like their approach to Star Wars.

Fingers are crossed that the old man thinks film happens first.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Bolt-01 01 October, 2018, 09:15:49 AM
Thinking off the top of my head and I only saw the Crystal skull fillum once on a plane but...

Wasn't 'that' potentially a set-up for moving forward with (#actualcannibal) Shia TheBeef moving into the action role for Harrison?

Of course, if the studio 'had' planned that then they have waited a long time to follow-up on it.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: IndigoPrime 01 October, 2018, 09:33:38 AM
Was Crystal Skull the one with the fridge? If so, I also saw some of it on a plane. I may have stopped watching at that bit.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: radiator 01 October, 2018, 09:50:40 PM
I love Temple Of Doom. My relationship with it is much like my relationship with Return of the Jedi.....I can appreciate that Empire is the better film, but I'm more attached to Jedi. I appreciate Raiders is the better film.....but I have a real attachment to Temple of Doom. I've never understood why people rate is so harshly, it's non stop fun.


I'm in the same boat re: Temple of Doom. I know Raiders is objectively a better film, but ToD is the one we grew up with on video (taped off TV, obvs*) so it's the one I'll always have the most affection for. Agree that people are way too harsh on it - Last Crusade is far sillier, especially at the end.

*Edited for TV. I think I must have been in my late teens before I saw an uncut version, and was genuinely shocked to see actual hearts being ripped out, though it did make a lot more sense in retrospect - until then I could never figure out why all the characters were so scared of Mola Ram scratching their chests with his fingernails.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: James Stacey 02 October, 2018, 01:18:22 PM
interesting findings if true
http://www.darkhorizons.com/russian-bots-propagated-last-jedi-hate/
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 02 October, 2018, 01:49:28 PM
Artificially maximising the visibility of negative comments from social regressives is something that has been provably shown to be a marketing tactic by Western media companies, and it's far more likely that Disney hired troll farms themselves in order to get the online left - predominantly young and active on social media - to deliberately adopt a stance in defence of Disney's product.

But yeah, sure: Vladimir Putin is undermining NATO by planting bad reviews of a film about gay space robots - that sounds much more plausible.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: SIP 02 October, 2018, 01:56:09 PM
Whether there's any truth in it or not, and I'm abstaining from passing opinion, that particular article would have been better off steering clear of its closing comments on IMDB ( look at the user reviews on that site) or rotten tomatoes (where it quotes the critics view of 91%, not the user reviews closer to 40%).

Probably only time will tell how popular it all is.

I can see one angry ranting mob screaming on YouTube that Disney paid for this and it's another PR exercise, and I can see the other angry ranting mob screaming back as a vindication of what they love. I'm avoiding YouTube.

I try to take all online opinion with a pinch of salt now as it's become almost impossible to distinguish from real comment, fake comment and paid-for comment. The relentless hate bombardments really wear you out.

I will just rely on "watch it if it interests me" and "did I like it or not".
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 02 October, 2018, 02:58:05 PM
Artificially maximising the visibility of negative comments from social regressives is something that has been provably shown to be a marketing tactic by Western media companies, and it's far more likely that Disney hired troll farms themselves in order to get the online left - predominantly young and active on social media - to deliberately adopt a stance in defence of Disney's product.

I like the way you're thinking,  but did Disney really need to do that?  Was SW really that much of a busted flush?   Isn't it more likely to be just one more minor front in the same socially divisive campaign we've been living through since at least the Zoe Quinn affair?

Also,  I don't think that article represents the paper very well - it's a very tight piece of analysis about a very specific group of pro- and anti-Johnson tweets.  Worth a read.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 02 October, 2018, 04:08:33 PM
It's not that Disney needed to do it defensively so much as it's just how things are now done for tentpole US blockbusters - though throwing shade at Nazis has rarely been a high-risk marketing strategy.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: The Legendary Shark 02 October, 2018, 04:58:32 PM
Social manipulation has been with us for a very long time. By fermenting binary discussions about popular but essentially irrelevant topics, in this case Star Wars, attention is attracted away from more basic and important questions. It's part of a wider strategy of distraction, illusion and simulacra.

Binary arguments abound; left or right, right or wrong, good or bad, conventional or alternative, for or against, male or female, belief or disbelief, rich or poor, in or out. Nested within each, more binaries; this party or that party, this ruler or that ruler, democracy or fascism, gay or straight, black or white, GB or EUGB. And, again, nested binaries in each. All with one purpose - to maintain the status quo by limiting discourse through all aspects of society.

But it's not 100% effective, of course, because most of us know that many of the binaries presented to us are invalid or make no sense. The binary argument is so pervasive, however, that we are all effected by it in some way. And when we overcome a binary argument, as most here have over this Star Wars question, we feel - rightly - that we have won a small intellectual victory. I think most people here are good at winning these victories, are good at seeing through a lot of binary arguments.

One only has to look at how binary arguments are foisted wholesale on the public by politicians and the msm to understand how human tribalism is being manipulated and why so many people actually believe in the validity of us and them, me and you, mine or yours, love or hate.

I think, or rather I believe, that more and more people are beginning to see through the binary argument, whether it be about Brexit or Star Wars, and thinking for themselves rather than having to choose between two or three presented options. I find this a very hopeful sign.

Star Wars may help to shape a better future for us all. Live long and... Oh shit, my preferences are showing.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 02 October, 2018, 06:47:53 PM
Weirdly, Leia's chief political enemies in the Sequels are apparently called "centrists", who resisted her political maneuvering while insisting that Leia and her Rebels were just as bad as the First Order.  HA HA what a wacky and outlandish concept this centrism is - where the far right is seen as equivalent to not wanting planets to blow up etc
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 02 October, 2018, 09:48:10 PM
In the surprisingly enjoyable (current c4non)  novel Bloodline, which deals with the political situation between VI and VII,  the 'Centrist' faction are those who want strong centralised authority in the Republic.  So not directly comparable to Chuka Umunna.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: auxlen 13 November, 2018, 06:18:49 PM
Sorry if re-posting...but I'm eschewing ep 9...as the last Jedi was a joke.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 12 April, 2019, 07:42:45 PM
The trailer is out : https://www.newsarama.com/44740-first-star-wars-trailer.html (https://www.newsarama.com/44740-first-star-wars-trailer.html)

Title: The Rise of Skywalker
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Colin YNWA 12 April, 2019, 09:08:56 PM
I worry that the good work of Last Jedi might get undone here... which will mean I'll turn into the whining fanboy that the whining fanboys became over Last Jedi.... damn this is all going to get a bit tricky isn't it!
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Dandontdare 12 April, 2019, 09:27:08 PM
My ultimate view (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uMGN1ayqBc) on the last one and the next one.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Hawkmumbler 12 April, 2019, 09:39:36 PM
I worry that the good work of Last Jedi might get undone here... which will mean I'll turn into the whining fanboy that the whining fanboys became over Last Jedi.... damn this is all going to get a bit tricky isn't it!
My thoughts exactly.

I'm not a Star Wars guy. I actually have quiet a bit of disdain for it. But I loved TLJ and simply hope the work that movie set up isn't made to go to waste here.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Greg M. 12 April, 2019, 10:33:06 PM
I am not that big a Star Wars person either, but I thought TLJ was one of the worst films I’d seen in ages, even managing to ruin what was actually good about the fairly rubbish TFA, so anything that screws it over is fine by me. That said, I imagine IX will be the usual crappy Abrams rehash and reupholstering job. (As a point of reference for my dubious tastes, I finally saw Solo recently and thought that, despite its flaws, it was easily the best SW film since RotJ.)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 12 April, 2019, 11:37:23 PM
Not only the Death Star but they're even bringing out the sports-day medals.

(https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/iAioATQ7QfrkLSCPTxhqLM.jpg)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 13 April, 2019, 04:52:51 AM
Lets wait and see, the Disney Star Wars movies have been quite average (except for Rogue One).
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: hippynumber1 13 April, 2019, 07:57:48 AM
Ignoring everything else, that’s a terrible title.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: IAMTHESYSTEM 13 April, 2019, 10:03:31 AM
Isn't Kylo Ren technically speaking a Skywalker since he's Leia's son and Luke's nephew?  I thought the Last Jedi had a tough task with effectively destroying the Star Wars old guard while consolidating the new ones and understandably a lot of people didn't like that idea. I've read in some Media outlets that the makers of  TLJ junked JJ Abrams original script which may have led to some disconnect between the two films. Let's hope they're back on track for the final instalment it seems the dreaded Emporer Palpatine survived his apparent demise in ST: ROTJ or his ghostly spirit has. 'Sith happens' so I've heard.   
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 13 April, 2019, 10:17:31 AM
Ignoring everything else, that’s a terrible title.

Yes the title sounds like a rehash of previous titles.

Isn't Kylo Ren technically speaking a Skywalker since he's Leia's son and Luke's nephew? 

Yes Kylo Ren is in a matter of speaking a Skywalker. So he might succumb to the light-side of the force and the Skywalker name can rise again or something like that
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Tjm86 13 April, 2019, 11:30:32 AM
I finally saw Solo recently and thought that, despite its flaws, it was easily the best SW film since RotJ.)

Aye, now that it has finally made it to Sky I give it a shot.  It's actually not all that bad, is it.  Not perfect but passable enough.

One thing that does confuse me though about the trailer, it looks like a crashed Death Star in the ocean at one point.  Yet in New Hope and ROTJ both Death Stars were completely vaporised.  Or am I just being really pedantic and need to remember that it is just a film?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 13 April, 2019, 12:16:26 PM
Ignoring everything else, that’s a terrible title.

JJA strikes again.  Clearly the aim was something that evoked Return Of or Revenge Of so as predicted they're already rolling back from that whole "a clean break with the past" theme that ran through TLJ.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: auxlen 14 April, 2019, 05:16:43 PM
Listen...I'm a fool but I cannot  ( in all conscience) pay money to watch this after the travesty and (IMHO)_ utter disater that was the TLJ ...if y0ou liked it rfair enough ( I liked  thq
H
U
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Mister Pops 14 April, 2019, 08:19:52 PM
A friend acquaintance insisted I had to watch this teaser trailer.

Which I thought was odd.

So I looked it up on youtube.

The second result (the first result being the actual thing) claimed to reveal 67 easter eggs hidden in this 2 minute montage of finished footage.

Which I thought was peculiar.

Didn't bother in the end, I think Star Wars has become something just for degenerates, deviants and communists.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 15 April, 2019, 12:11:36 AM
Fuck your shitty toy robots film about space Marxists, Clone Wars season 7 is coming out.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 15 April, 2019, 02:44:01 AM
Werner Herzog just told me the Star Wars galaxy is now fucked.

One subscription for Disney+, please.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Pete Wells 15 April, 2019, 09:53:18 AM
I’m not quite sure what’s the most tedious, toxic fandom or toxic non-fandom?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Keef Monkey 15 April, 2019, 11:09:58 AM
Trailer got me very buzzed, in a way that the trailers for the last bunch didn't. I've loved the films, but for some reason the trailers just didn't spark the excitement until this one! Wasn't quite prepared for how happy I'd be to see Lando (let out a little gasp) and to see Leia again (let out a larger gasp).

Should be fantastic, they haven't really put a foot wrong for me yet with these episodes (although Rogue One is still my favourite of the Disney crop).

The Jedi Fallen Order game trailer that also released at the weekend was great too, so hyped for that as well!
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: sheridan 15 April, 2019, 11:25:13 AM
Trailer got me very buzzed, in a way that the trailers for the last bunch didn't. I've loved the films, but for some reason the trailers just didn't spark the excitement until this one! Wasn't quite prepared for how happy I'd be to see Lando (let out a little gasp) and to see Leia again (let out a larger gasp).

Should be fantastic, they haven't really put a foot wrong for me yet with these episodes (although Rogue One is still my favourite of the Disney crop).

The Jedi Fallen Order game trailer that also released at the weekend was great too, so hyped for that as well!

Also a trailer for The Mandalorian was shown (the trailer is not on general release, sadly, so only those at Celebration got to see it).  There have been more pictures from the series released though.  Plus we now know when it'll be set - some time between VI and VII.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Jim_Campbell 15 April, 2019, 11:44:06 AM
Also a trailer for The Mandalorian was shown (the trailer is not on general release, sadly, so only those at Celebration got to see it).

There's a ShakyCam™ phone recording of it floating around — it's mostly behind-the-scenes stuff and concept art but it looks mighty fine already. You might find the phone recording here (https://youtu.be/kOqyaFTR1cA) if Lucasfilm/Disney hasn't had it taken down yet…!
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: wedgeski 15 April, 2019, 11:56:11 AM
Ep 9 trailer got me seriously hyped, especially the last few seconds. Yup, I'm on-board.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Keef Monkey 15 April, 2019, 01:36:15 PM
Also a trailer for The Mandalorian was shown (the trailer is not on general release, sadly, so only those at Celebration got to see it).

There's a ShakyCam™ phone recording of it floating around — it's mostly behind-the-scenes stuff and concept art but it looks mighty fine already. You might find the phone recording here (https://youtu.be/kOqyaFTR1cA) if Lucasfilm/Disney hasn't had it taken down yet…!

Looks cool!
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Tiplodocus 15 April, 2019, 02:19:19 PM
I think they don't know what Easter Egg means. But they know exactly what clickbait means.

I liked the trailer - looks fun. Even though it had no Porgs.

But I am still lucky enough to be able to just watch and enjoy Star Wars without worrying too much.


About the only thing I can't summon enthusiasm for, despite the charismatic Pedro being on-board, is The Mandalorian. Bounty hunters and crime bosses was not an element of SW I cared for. Boba Fett is over-rated.

But I couldn't summon enthusiasm for SOLO but I right enjoyed that.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 15 April, 2019, 02:25:24 PM
For me it was a case that the trailers were great but the movies just did not do it for me (the exception was Rogue One just loved it). 

I am at a cross-road, if this is another meh Star Wars movie then I will not see the next one it in the cinemas but I will then wait for the Blu-Ray to arrive.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Pete Wells 15 April, 2019, 03:55:38 PM
Also a trailer for The Mandalorian was shown (the trailer is not on general release, sadly, so only those at Celebration got to see it).

There's a ShakyCam™ phone recording of it floating around — it's mostly behind-the-scenes stuff and concept art but it looks mighty fine already. You might find the phone recording here (https://youtu.be/kOqyaFTR1cA) if Lucasfilm/Disney hasn't had it taken down yet…!

There’s also some ShakyCam™ phone footage of the five minute preview they showed and it looks very promising indeed! It gave me a real Strontium Dog vibe!
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Jim_Campbell 15 April, 2019, 04:07:19 PM
There’s also some ShakyCam™ phone footage of the five minute preview they showed and it looks very promising indeed! It gave me a real Strontium Dog vibe!

You're not wrong. (https://youtu.be/l0dhPm3vbyE) :-)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 15 April, 2019, 07:38:08 PM
Proof that Star Wars fans will whoop, cheer and holler for anything at all except new Star Wars films.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Apestrife 15 April, 2019, 07:52:45 PM
I'm a bit amazed how little I thought about the teaser for ep 9. Regardless, hope it's good. Definitely gonna watch it (even if I'm not the biggest fan of either 7 o 8).

The Mandalorian looks really cool. Can't wait to watch that! :)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 16 April, 2019, 12:45:41 AM
Ignoring everything else, that’s a terrible title.

And Star Wars Episode IX: Triumph of the Whills would've tied the saga up so well.

(http://i0.wp.com/echenry.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/triumph-of-the-will.jpg)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 16 April, 2019, 04:09:50 PM
There’s also some ShakyCam™ phone footage of the five minute preview they showed and it looks very promising indeed! It gave me a real Strontium Dog vibe!

You're not wrong. (https://youtu.be/l0dhPm3vbyE) :-)

Stylish, but I'm thinking if it's going to hold that interest it's going to have to do a lot better than 5 minutes of Holiday Special Boba - Mos Eile Arís - Salacious Crumb PETA commercial - Jabba's Eye Thingie - Gonk Gonk Gonk - Yet More Stormtroopers - Werner Herzog... wait, what, WERNER HERZOG?!?  Damnit I thought I was out and they pulled me back in.  And Taika Waititi to look forwards to. Utter bastards.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 16 April, 2019, 04:24:29 PM
As to the other thing, like literally every SW title since Return of the Jedi I thought 'Rise of Skywalker' was utterly awful (I can actually remember where I was when I first heard about Attack of the Clones, now that was a howler).  Then I rolled it about in my head a bit and realised it was perfectly fine. The trailer, while having some good bits (Rey's leap, Poe and Finn in action together), reinforced my fear that LFL are rolling back on everything and ignoring the shiny blank canvas Johnson handed them. I still hope that's not the case, and while Palps is probably my favourite character across the first 6 movies, I really didn't need to hear from him again.  And as for a 5th film with a quest involving a superweapon, even the remains of one... no thanks.  But we'll see.

Now go, I wish to be alone with the Clone Wars S7 trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx9CMSPMfRs).
 
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 16 April, 2019, 04:40:18 PM
(I can actually remember where I was when I first heard about Attack of the Clones, now that was a howler)

Thankfully that moment was captured for posterity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwL8wlBMflA
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 16 April, 2019, 05:48:03 PM
(I can actually remember where I was when I first heard about Attack of the Clones, now that was a howler)

Thankfully that moment was captured for posterity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwL8wlBMflA

God I've aged hideously in 18 years.  Although to be fair the missus hasn't done much better.
 
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 17 April, 2019, 12:48:53 AM
Ignoring everything else, that’s a terrible title.

JJA strikes again.  Clearly the aim was something that evoked Return Of or Revenge Of so as predicted they're already rolling back from that whole "a clean break with the past" theme that ran through TLJ.

And so it goes. (https://www.slashfilm.com/j-j-abrams-on-reys-parents/)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: The Enigmatic Dr X 17 April, 2019, 07:55:34 PM
Looks like the Star Wars films can't even do exciting trailers any more.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 18 April, 2019, 11:50:36 AM
Ignoring everything else, that’s a terrible title.

JJA strikes again.  Clearly the aim was something that evoked Return Of or Revenge Of so as predicted they're already rolling back from that whole "a clean break with the past" theme that ran through TLJ.

And so it goes. (https://www.slashfilm.com/j-j-abrams-on-reys-parents/)

I don't think there was a 'clean break with the past' theme in TLJ: although both Luke and Kylo aspired to one, they were both completely frustrated in their aims.

Luke explains that both he and Han will always be with Kylo, Rey carts off the Sacred Texts with Yoda's connivance and (the bits of) Anakin's sabre, Luke clarifies that the Jedi Order is far from finished, and the rebellion reborn. Indeed, a Skywalker becomes the central villain for the first time. The film leaves a blank canvas in the sense that the story could go anywhere from there, but there is no escape from the past.

Rey No-One is a great idea (the best one, IMHO), but it doesn't have to be the final one.  And even then, did we really believe Kylo when he says that her parents were drunks that sold her to Plutt? Did we really believe what a Dark Side mirror showed her? 

My concern still lies with Abrams. He is the very last guy I'd have asked to wrap something up in a satisfying manner.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 18 April, 2019, 03:45:02 PM
It's 1981. It's always been 1981.

(https://i.imgur.com/lVMR8ok.jpg)

http://www.trektales.com/se22_45-60.pdf
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Tjm86 18 April, 2019, 05:06:25 PM


My concern still lies with Abrams. He is the very last guy I'd have asked to wrap something up in a satisfying manner.

Maybe it will turn out that the franchise did in fact crash at the start of Phantom Menace and they are all stuck in purgatory (Endor) ...
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 19 April, 2019, 01:07:15 AM
JJA strikes again.  Clearly the aim was something that evoked Return Of or Revenge Of so as predicted they're already rolling back from that whole "a clean break with the past" theme that ran through TLJ.

And so it goes. (https://www.slashfilm.com/j-j-abrams-on-reys-parents/)

I don't think there was a 'clean break with the past' theme in TLJ: although both Luke and Kylo aspired to one, they were both completely frustrated in their aims.

Whatever we may think of the story so far and the execution – figuratively and literally – of legacy characters, nothing in that title suggests a roll-back or ret-con. At least from a superficial reading it feels like a genuine continuation of the last act of TLJ which set-up TROS and indicates a merging of what came before in TFA and TLJ – which is precisely what the last film should logically be, a synthesis. It's been clear since the end of TLJ what direction Episode IX was, or at least should be, going in for the trilogy to work at all at this stage of the game.

Luke declared the Rebellion is reborn, and he'll not be the last Jedi, and the legend of Crait reached Broomkid and the Back-street Boys who are the first stirrings of the what I assume is the rise of the Skywalker legacy across the galaxy. It might not be the literal resurrection of Luke some fans want but it makes sense, if it happens that way.

What raises alarm bells for me is the temptation for fan-service with Abrams & co. going back to the bizarro world of Prequel era notions of Skywalker parentage and the murky virgin birth lore with Palpatine rubbing his loins at a distance (if we're really lucky they'll have had a moment of divine inspiration and managed to make it work, even if only in the moment).

I'm fine with the Death Star/Emperor set-up if it's for flashbacks and explains how his own imperial legacy led to the First Order and why the galaxy is the way it is – context that shouldn't really be a mystery at all and been given in TFA. I don't really want to see him alive. Maybe they'll surprise me with that one given that these are all old Lucas ideas.

It's been clear since TFA that JJA and Kasdan structured the whole thing backwards leaving the explaining to do later or when they'd figured it out. Giving them the benefit of the doubt and the chance there was at least some vague plan at work, RJ was either told to leave certain things alone or wasn't interested, obligated or too distracted by the task at hand to do more about it.

Of course it could be ringing and blowing all the SW bells and whistles, be entertaining while watching, but not make any reasonable sense at all – like a lot, and some of, the best Star Wars.

No doubt Vader will pop-up again.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: radiator 06 June, 2019, 02:56:36 AM
I couldn't find the 'youtube gold' thread, but i suppose that this is as good a place as any;

One of the hosts of the incredibly popular and successfull youtube channel/pop culture media empire Collider threw an extraordinarily childish and unprofessional on-air wobbly the other day, all because he didn't get invited to the opening of the Star Wars Disneyland attraction, and it's an absolute doozy - literally a 40 year old man throwing a very public tantrum because he didn't get to go to Disneyland while other, less popular (so in his mind less deserving) pop culture reporters did:

https://youtu.be/X7vSb7zWoB8 (https://youtu.be/X7vSb7zWoB8)

Things then get even more excruciating as he goes on to have a blazing row with his producer after he, in a sulk, refuses to cover the park opening on the show he is hosting and even threatens to walk off:

https://youtu.be/S0c2yStVC3A (https://youtu.be/S0c2yStVC3A)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Keef Monkey 06 June, 2019, 10:03:58 AM
Wow. The cringe is strong in that one.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 06 June, 2019, 10:08:16 AM
2 other reps from Collider were invited because they had long established relationships with Shizney, which he didn’t, and in the end he said he couldn’t go anyway.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Hawkmumbler 06 June, 2019, 10:41:57 AM
RLM are going to have a field day with this...
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: sheridan 06 June, 2019, 11:40:58 AM
RLM are going to have a field day with this...

RLM?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Hawkmumbler 06 June, 2019, 12:11:50 PM
RLM are going to have a field day with this...

RLM?
Red Letter Media, a comedy channel. They have a parody show of Collider call the Nerd Show.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 06 June, 2019, 07:27:41 PM
Brother that is one slow-motion implosion!  Personally I'm toying with the idea of selling a kidney/child/Jaina Solo 3 3/4" Figure to finance a trip to Galaxy's Edge. It looks fantastic.   
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Frank 15 July, 2019, 04:55:23 PM

RED LETTER MEDIA PREDICTION VIDEOS ARE A BIGGER DISAPPOINTMENT THAN MY SON (https://youtu.be/gzeOrA2in1c)


: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 15 July, 2019, 06:23:51 PM
Good stuff, that.  The lads are generally better - and funnier - when they aren't trying to be full-on hilarious.  One of their main guesses is bang-on for my own speculations, their preferred one better not be true or I may have to become one of those internet people. You know the ones.  And I wouldn't rule it our, since the end of Rebels sowed seeds for that direction.

Their idea about Luke the White is the most plausible, since the Annotated Screenplays detail exactly that as the original ending for Return of the Jedi with Ghost Obi-Wan in the Luke role, so they can blame George/take credit for fulfilling his concept and tying up the "Strike me down, and I will become more powerful..." loose-end-if-you-take-it-literally-rather-than-metaphorically.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Hawkmumbler 15 July, 2019, 06:59:02 PM
Just. Let Reys. Parents. Be nobodies.

I hate it when extended universe stuff ties itself in knots to make everyone important somehow.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Frank 15 July, 2019, 07:15:12 PM
... their preferred (speculation) better not be true

Oh come on, Rey sneaking around the original Death Star with a trilby and walkie-talkie, shutting down the power to the Big Laser while Young Han distracts the stormtroopers by playing Johnny B Goode would be great.

Somewhere in this or the other most recent STWars thread, someone* remarks that the obvious hack sci-fi cliche the Skywalkerverse hasn't done so far is time travel and I broadly agree with Rich's assertion that there's no way for Disney to take the story forward**

In the Youtube comments, which nobody should ever read unless they have an ironic appreciation of racism, one whip suggests Rey decides to stay in the past, changes her name, and gives (virgin) birth to Anakin Skywalker. Although it would make more (and also less) sense if she scratched that bad boy itch and Ben Solo is his own Great Grandpa***


* Probably yourself or Soapy Joe, let's face it.

** As a big mainstream proposition, which is why they paid $4 billion for this pig's ear. Obviously, the good people of this board would be delighted if Disney continued to splurge hundreds of millions on films where Oscar Isaac and Finn are mismatched space pirate buddies who have to smuggle 400 cases of blue milk from Coruscant to Jakku in 28 hours for Big Jabba Jr and Little Jabba Jr, while pursued by Captain Buford T Phasma and her bumbling son, but maybe not the much larger section of the paying audience who think Ewoks are baby Wookiees.

*** The Twilight Zone, Tharg's Future Shocks, and every sci-fi short story writer ever could sue Disney for combining and ripping off their WHAT IF YOU WENT BACK IN TIME AND SHAGGED YOUR GRANNY/KILLED HITLER plots. It'd be very Disney 2019 to put an abortion dilemma at the heart of a big pop movie
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 15 July, 2019, 07:26:40 PM
If you think Disney SW hasn't covered time travel yet, you've missed the last chunk of canonical Rebels. Kylo Ren prototype Jacen Solo also time-travelled in the EU  (now Legends) books.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Frank 15 July, 2019, 07:39:50 PM
... there's no way for Disney to take the story forward (as) a big mainstream proposition, which is why they paid $4 billion for this pig's ear. Obviously, the good people of this board would be delighted if Disney continued to splurge hundreds of millions on films where Oscar Isaac and Finn are mismatched space pirate buddies who have to smuggle 400 cases of blue milk from Coruscant to Jakku in 28 hours for Big Jabba Jr and Little Jabba Jr, while pursued by Captain Buford T Phasma and her bumbling son, but maybe not the much larger section of the paying audience who think Ewoks are baby Wookiees.

If you think Disney SW hasn't covered time travel yet, you've missed the last chunk of canonical Rebels. Kylo Ren prototype Jacen Solo also time-travelled in the EU  (now Legends) books.

See!


: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Tiplodocus 15 July, 2019, 09:52:56 PM
I wish these youtubers had decent editors. I tend to shy away from anything over the twenty minute mark. The amount of videos where you think "Why would I spend 60 minutes listening to a critique of a film that's only 100 minutes long?" is staggering.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Link Prime 15 July, 2019, 11:31:16 PM
I wish these youtubers had decent editors. I tend to shy away from anything over the twenty minute mark. The amount of videos where you think "Why would I spend 60 minutes listening to a critique of a film that's only 100 minutes long?" is staggering.

tl;dr
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 16 July, 2019, 01:27:14 AM
It says a lot about the current state of Star Wars films and fandom that the self-aware RLM lads are regurgitating the same old theories and rumours as every other youtube channel for the past year or so, although with infinitely more wit and sense.

They're proabably still pulling from old Lucas sequel plans where Palpatine exists as a jar of old midi-chlorians or something.



: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: IndigoPrime 16 July, 2019, 10:07:06 AM
I wish these youtubers had decent editors. I tend to shy away from anything over the twenty minute mark. The amount of videos where you think "Why would I spend 60 minutes listening to a critique of a film that's only 100 minutes long?" is staggering.
Most podcasts are the same. Quite why people feel the need to bang on for so long, I don’t know. The bulk of those I’ve listened to could be condensed into half the time or less with some decent editing.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 16 July, 2019, 11:22:32 AM
They're proabably still pulling from old Lucas sequel plans where Palpatine exists as a jar of old midi-chlorians or something.

There's really no plot with a resurrected Palpatine that's worse than any other. Even the novels and comics understood that,  once the initially brilliant Dark Empire had sunk into ghastly incoherent repetition, they ditched the idea for good.

 It's beyond me how a sequel trilogy that should have moved us on, and with TLJ looked like it actually might have done that, apparently ends up regurgitating the Emperor, the Sith, the bloody Death Star and probably Luke *again.*  Can't we just have Rey, Kylo & Co with some  exciting space battles,  monsters, lightsabres,  mystic forces,  explosions, moral choices, witty banter,  frustrated romance,  destinies fulfilled,  sacrifice and redemption, all against a background of struggle against monolithic industrialised evil etc. Y'know,  Star Wars,  but with different characters and perils.

Kerriste,  can't we just have Solo 2?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Frank 16 July, 2019, 01:15:37 PM
Can't we just have Rey, Kylo & Co with some exciting space battles, monsters, lightsabres,  mystic forces,  explosions, moral choices, witty banter,  frustrated romance,  destinies fulfilled,  sacrifice and redemption, all against a background of struggle against monolithic industrialised evil etc. Y'know,  Star Wars,  but with different characters and perils.

You could, but they're scared it wouldn't make as much money.

I don't follow this stuff at all, so the news that Lucasfilm had hired the guy who wrote Batman vs Superman and Justice league to man the typewriter hit me round the head like a gaffi stick.

Someone thought the ideal choices to put the cap on their trilogy were the guy responsible for how Lost ended and the wordsmith behind MARTHA? WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!


: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Bolt-01 16 July, 2019, 03:47:22 PM
Yeah, well that's not as bad as letting the men who wrote X-men origins Wolverine write the plot for Game of Thrones after they ran out of book...
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 16 July, 2019, 05:02:53 PM
You could, but they're scared it wouldn't make as much money.

The infuriating thing about all this is that it looks like the whole project may have, in the end, been twisted back to the over-familiar by the whining of the wankers who effectively boycotted the surprisingly good  Solo. FFS Disney, ignore the dead-end represented by those wastes of bandwidth and concentrate on winning new audiences. 

'Course I could be completely wrong and this might be the film where Poe and Lando give into their devil-may-care intergenerational attraction under the disapproving eye of the Falcon's navi-computer, while Finn cucks Kylo so hard he does a Luke and vanishes into the dark side.  In fact please let me be wrong: if ya gotta go, go with a bang. 
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 16 July, 2019, 05:09:20 PM
Oh, and Chris Terrio? Seriously? 
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 16 July, 2019, 05:10:41 PM
RLM suggest with a bit more canniness that JJA won't do the immediately obvious Palpy reveal and instead go for something nebulous about "the Emperor's essence" rather than a Force ghost or something, which I think rings true, possibly culminating in yet another Face Your Fears sequence ala Empire and TLJ.

A personal theory: some of what's in the trailer is proprietary footage shot for the trailer and isn't in the film at all.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 16 July, 2019, 11:18:54 PM
Of that we can be sure.

As to 'the Emperor's essence', this concept of lingering power can be read as being present in TFA in the form of Kylo's veneration of Vader's helmet* and hunger for Anakin's lightsabre - the new-canon books and comics also emphasise a general search for relics of the dark side. But the wheeling out of the ageless McDiarmid at least suggests something more than an evil battery pack.

If there isn't a physical duel between Rey and Ben while Luke and Sheev clash in spirit form around them I'll be very surprised. In early drafts of RotJ it's Obi-Wan's forceghost that defends Luke from Palpatine, and SW never wasted a single idea or image from that early material.



*if the superlaser dish is on Endor, then Kylo may already been there to retrievecthe helmet.  However,  given JJ's complete disinterest in the distance between star systems,  my guess is it's somewhere else entirely.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 17 July, 2019, 12:59:59 AM
Yeah, the residual haunting of relics/Death Star balloon has been inflated and floated by comics and fanlords for a while, as well as the unused ending of Revenge of the Jedi that was rewritten for good reason: apart from being naff it undercut the sense of Luke having an authentic achievement in thinking differently where the old-guard failed –it may yet undercut Rey in IX or Vader in VI– and Kenobi-ghost saving Anakin-ghost from drowning in lava a literal step too far.

It's beyond me how a sequel trilogy that should have moved us on, and with TLJ looked like it actually might have done that


Depending on where in the story this Emperor plot thing comes into play, whatever multiple choice option it it actually is, there's an outside possiblity it might not be anything other than another JJA red-herring. JJA probably intends to fill-in the gaps of his story with a lot more flashbacks as a consequence of his backwards approach that never fully sets-up its stall from the beginning: the establishing of which would allow ideas from the more level ground in TLJ to expand and progress rather than the story always trying to catch-up with the plot. I don't know why it had to become exclusively Skywalker, rather than just Star Wars, saga.

As to the time-travel thing, fugeddaboutit. While both the Vader comic and Rebels have claimed creative pissing-rights on that, and in a way that's not complete shite, it would be too convoluted at this late point, even for JJA, to expound upon.

Between the jigs and the reels it's funny looking back at old interviews, like one from that fella Richard Marquand on the publicity tour for Return of the Jedi talking about the Sequels in 1983.

(https://i.imgur.com/4E6cRnC.jpg)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 17 July, 2019, 01:11:00 AM
Oh, and Chris Terrio? Seriously? 

The combination of the WB executive and Zack Snyder is an affliction. Lucasfilm and JJA might not be much better. Hopefully it's more Argo Terrio and not Dawn of Justice Terrio.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: radiator 17 July, 2019, 02:30:37 AM
I wish these youtubers had decent editors. I tend to shy away from anything over the twenty minute mark. The amount of videos where you think "Why would I spend 60 minutes listening to a critique of a film that's only 100 minutes long?" is staggering.
Most podcasts are the same. Quite why people feel the need to bang on for so long, I don’t know. The bulk of those I’ve listened to could be condensed into half the time or less with some decent editing.

I feel strongly the opposite - podcasts shorter than 25 minutes to me seem almost pointless.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 17 July, 2019, 10:47:51 AM
After many years of exploitation and general underhanded fuckery on the part of Youtube, most successful creators are funded by Patreon or similar, and not by Youtube's arbitrary monetisation schemes that only make money for Youtube.  People paying the makers of the videos understandably want more content - not less - for their money.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Frank 17 July, 2019, 11:31:24 AM
After many years of exploitation and general underhanded fuckery on the part of Youtube, most successful creators are funded by Patreon or similar, and not by Youtube's arbitrary monetisation schemes that only make money for Youtube.  People paying the makers of the videos understandably want more content - not less - for their money.

Robert Evans's recent Youtube takedown - How Youtube Became A Perpetual Nazi Machine (https://www.behindthebastards.com/podcasts/how-youtube-became-a-perpetual-nazi-machine.htm) - made the point that one of the reasons Youtube's algorithm prioritised Alex Jones videos was because they were three or four hours long.

Everyone thinks the algorithm's about the quick bang of getting you to click on that HOW FEMINISM DESTROYED STAR WARS thumbnail and making you watch five seconds of an ad for Wixx, but it'd much rather keep you glued to your recliner for an entire morning so it can show you 12 different (unskippable) ads every fifteen or twenty minutes.

As such, the algorithm prioritises longer videos over shorter ones, which Youtubers have noticed and responded to accordingly.


: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: IndigoPrime 17 July, 2019, 11:34:58 AM
People paying the makers of the videos understandably want more content - not less - for their money.
Then people are idiots. I want better content, not for my time to be wasted.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Hawkmumbler 17 July, 2019, 12:26:34 PM
Fredrick Knudsen's Down The Rabbit Hole is one of the best series of Youtube, and he only publishes one episode every 2 months, and makes about £4200 on patreon in that time. The fact his videos are equal if not superior to most Netflix documentaries is why people are happy to support him in spite of relatively low output.

Youtubes business model supports quantity over quality, something most quality creatives can't or won't provide. Youtube execs can fuck off.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 17 July, 2019, 01:20:46 PM
I feel strongly the opposite - podcasts shorter than 25 minutes to me seem almost pointless.

Yup. 60-90 mins is the sweet spot for me, since that's the length of my average drive, train commute or walk. Farting about changing episodes on the hoof irritates me, unless there's a story told through an episodic structure (Serial, Polybius Conspiracy) or a really focused weekly topic that gets done (Motherfocloir).  Should be said that my favourite pods are either rambling interviews which often can't be long enough (Adam Buxton) or podcasts broken into recurring segments (Grognard Files).

If we're talking about endless to-and-fro between regular presenters,  or some spode wittering on solo about his hobby horse, definitely less is more,  but then I tend not to go back to those o es.

YouTube OTOH,  dear lord keep 'em short - who has the time?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: IndigoPrime 17 July, 2019, 02:26:55 PM
Quite. I’m not specifically against a podcast going on for an hour, but it has to have a reason for doing so. A good example is Infinite Monkey Cage. I’d happily listen to episodes twice as long as the extended podcasts, because they are superb. But so much stuff is just extended to fill the time, rather than edited to be better.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Hawkmumbler 17 July, 2019, 02:43:57 PM
Welcome to Nightvale got it's structure spot on, a half an hour surrealist podcast presented as a 30 minute news bulletin.

Critical Role and The Adventure Zone also curbed their out put perfectly so all could tell an ongoing narrative in sweet bite sized hits.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 17 July, 2019, 03:22:31 PM
As such, the algorithm prioritises longer videos over shorter ones, which Youtubers have noticed and responded to accordingly.

That was true until around 2017 when "the Adpocalypse" introduced automatic demonetisation (removal of advertising) on any videos flagged by content filters or viewer complaints*.  Foul-mouthed game streamers were put out of business overnight and since then a great many creators have taken their eggs out of the YT basket to create content according to Patreon feedback rather than the YT algorithm, premiering videos directly to backers and only later using YT as a hosting platform.
I have no doubt that some of the monolithic YT channels like Pewdiwpie still make bank somehow (because of course the right wing channels still make money), but most serious content creators are no longer beholden to the site or its preferences**.  And, you know, they're actually making money and growing their audiences, so obviously "they're too long and people who like longer vids are stupid" are highly subjective takes.


* Videos discussing LGBTQ issues also seem to get disproportionately flagged for demonetisation, while left wing channels are constantly targeted in "mass flagging" campaigns by alt-right channels to not only demonetise videos, but to get Youtube to remove them from the site entirely.
** laughably, Youtube has even created its own union to tempt younger and left-leaning creators back into the fold.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: radiator 17 July, 2019, 05:57:26 PM
I feel strongly the opposite - podcasts shorter than 25 minutes to me seem almost pointless.

Yup. 60-90 mins is the sweet spot for me, since that's the length of my average drive, train commute or walk. Farting about changing episodes on the hoof irritates me, unless there's a story told through an episodic structure (Serial, Polybius Conspiracy) or a really focused weekly topic that gets done (Motherfocloir).  Should be said that my favourite pods are either rambling interviews which often can't be long enough (Adam Buxton) or podcasts broken into recurring segments (Grognard Files).

If we're talking about endless to-and-fro between regular presenters,  or some spode wittering on solo about his hobby horse, definitely less is more,  but then I tend not to go back to those o es.

YouTube OTOH,  dear lord keep 'em short - who has the time?

I'm really not a fan of the recent proliferation of corporate, ultra-slickly produced podcasts, usually 25mins in length with a good 5 mins of that being ads. To me they are the exact opposite of what appeals to me about the medium.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: sheridan 23 July, 2019, 08:50:27 AM
People paying the makers of the videos understandably want more content - not less - for their money.
Then people are idiots. I want better content, not for my time to be wasted.


Unless there's a good reason for it, I like podcasts to be less than an hour in length, so that I can listen to them during lunch hour.  Some of the longer podcasts that I actually like I've fallen well behind on as I don't have the spare two or three hours to listen to them.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Tiplodocus 23 July, 2019, 09:28:53 AM
I love a bit of thread drift.

I think I'm going to stick to just the trailers in the build up to this. I pretty much did that for LAST JEDI and that kept it really fresh for me.

Especially as the bits I moaned about ("Those bits look like a rehash of Hoth and asteroid choice") both turned out to be nothing of the sort.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: IAMTHESYSTEM 13 August, 2019, 03:11:21 PM
Could this allegation be the real reasoning behind Disney's attempt at repackaging Star Wars? Disney didn't want to share any profits with Star Wars original creator George Lucas. By creating new characters, owned entirely by Disney to replace the originals ones they cut out any payment to him. Does seem a bit too conspiratorial to my eye but for profits, we all know Capitalism would sell its soul. Your soul, also. Well, follow the money as Deep Throat said.

https://youtu.be/XqPgVmndoYY
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: wedgeski 13 August, 2019, 03:14:44 PM
I'm not going to watch that video, but if Disney's grand plan to detach Star Wars completely from George Lucas involves spending hundreds of millions on three movies that feature the original cast, I would say they're off to a bad start.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 13 August, 2019, 03:44:41 PM
I find this conspiracy a little lacking. George Lucas was paid and owns 37.1 million Disney shares, or 2.1% of the company, making him the second largest non-institutional shareholder behind the Steve Jobs estate, so he gets a huge amount of money anyway from the stock-earnings of all Disney owned properties. At the time of sale Lucas’s Disney shares were worth $1.9billion, giving the deal a total value of $4.1 billion since he took the rest as money.

In 2015 the shares he received were worth $4.1 billion, giving the Lucas film deal a total value of approximately $6.3 billion.

If George is still receiving a cut of Lucasfilm/Star Wars, I doubt it's significant enough for Disney not to pay him, and they wouldn't have planned Han Solo and Boba Fett films if they wanted to completely decouple Star Wars earning potential from the previous owner. Whatever future Star Wars has Darth Vader & Co. will forever be part of the content and the merch. Vader and the Millenium Falcon are now 'park rides'.


: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 13 August, 2019, 03:51:54 PM
Joe gets in there ahead of me with a much more fleshed-out response. Mine was going to be:" Messa thinkin 4 billioni buysa themsa the right to crash da boas's hedgibber".
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Steve Green 23 August, 2019, 07:47:35 PM
I think the Mandalorian trailer should be out today.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECqQSkWX4AABdMC?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Mardroid 25 August, 2019, 07:48:21 AM
I watched it. Interesting! His ship has quite a Serenity vibe.

I have mixed feelings about the  Mandalorian. They’re mostly positive: sci-fi westerns and bounty hunters are always a cool concept and can lead to some terrific stories. There’s certainly plenty to mine in Star Wars, and I think this will be set in a time period we don’t know too much about. (After Endor, but before the First Order gains power, I believe. So plenty of chaos, criminal activity, imperial hangers-on*,etc.)

Then there’s part of me that thinks “Your using Boba Fett’s toys with another character! Why didn’t you just change the time period and...” I guess they have more leeway with a new character, though. They could have gone with a different look, but Mandalorian armour is cool, and we can’t really blame them for that.

Nice to see an IG droid as a side-kick!

* I don’t mind seeing the Empire still with a degree of power during this time period. It seems more realistic to me that a Galaxy wide empire wouldn’t just cave in once the leader and their new super toy was destroyed.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 25 August, 2019, 09:46:35 AM
Disney book-canon has the Empire struggling on as a sometimes-squabbling sometimes-united military force for several (?) years up to the battle of Jakku. After that areas of imperial control still exist within the bounds of treaty, and of course it turns out that this is all basically a front for squirelling away the bulk of their resources in unexplored regions of the galaxy.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Apestrife 26 August, 2019, 04:08:59 PM
New teaser. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDuis7ichwg

Idk. Will watch it. Hope I'll get richly surprised.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Hawkmumbler 26 August, 2019, 04:21:28 PM
That's just not doing it for me at all sadly.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 26 August, 2019, 05:09:32 PM
We've killed off those characters you liked and for good measure marketed our movies by painting you as a racist, but you'll come see this, won't you?  Ah go on, it's the last one.  How bad can it be?  If you don't, we'll tell everyone you hate women.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: auxlen 26 August, 2019, 05:37:41 PM
I boycotted Solo (which I fully intended to see at the cinema and ultimately enjoyed when i leeched of friends DVD) because I loathed TLJ (I mean properly Loathed)...not only was I Bored in the cinema but the whole casino thing I felt was an insult to me as a fan.

so I can not pay money for 9...call me a man-boy or an entitled child but there it is.

but the Mandalorian looks good but I will buy on DVD because there are tooooooooo many subscription services as there is and I'm skint as fook because I invest all my spare dosh in buying tables at conventions to promote my books.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Hawkmumbler 26 August, 2019, 05:45:52 PM
Now see, I adore The Last Jedi. It was fresh, it was weird, it's was strangely blunt yet optimistic. It was FUN. Something I'm not getting from this, at all.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: dweezil2 26 August, 2019, 06:28:15 PM
TLJ was far from perfect, Leila Poppins, Oliver Twist Force sensitive kids and crackhead Yoda, but it was light years better than Solo.
I found Solo a pretty depressingly redundant affair, Han Solo didn't even behave like Solo, he was a rogue and a scoundrel when we met him in Star Wars, it was only later as his character arc developed that he softened and learnt the importance of lurve and the rebellion.

In Solo there's no way he would of donated all that loot to that nomadic group, he would have just seduced the sexy girl and made off with the money!

A terrible betrayal of the character!  :(
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Frank 26 August, 2019, 07:16:34 PM
... he was a rogue and a scoundrel when we met him in Star Wars, it was only later as his character arc developed that he softened and learnt the importance of lurve and the rebellion

The film that ends with Han's idealistic young friend guilting him into saving the beautiful princess's rebellion?

I actually thought that mirroring of Han at the end of Star Wars and his helping mini-Maya Rudolph was the only clever bit of writing in Solo. *

Like you, I thought Solo was perfunctory, even if it's much closer to what I'd have said I wanted from a new Star Wars film if you'd asked me that question any time in the last 37 years.


* I genuinely thought I'd never watch Solo. I was basically tricked into giving it a go by this podcast, which does a pretty good job of arguing its case as a fun, uncomplicated adventure movie, which is exactly what I want from Star Wars: http://www.projectionboothpodcast.com/2019/07/special-report-solo-star-wars-story-2018.html
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Greg M. 26 August, 2019, 07:23:31 PM

I found Solo a pretty depressingly redundant affair

Everything past Return of the Jedi is redundant. But if we have to have new Star Wars films, and apparently we do, then Solo was mostly great fun and had a couple of charismatic leads. Emilia Clarke had more charm in her little finger than the entire casts of Rogue One and TLJ combined. (And I really liked John Boyega in TFA, but by TLJ, he seemed to have had his joie de vivre drained out of him.)
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Hawkmumbler 26 August, 2019, 07:27:38 PM
(And I really liked John Boyega in TFA, but by TLJ, he seemed to have had his joie de vivre drained out of him.)

Just gonna drop these here... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E0p0GQCAM8)

...as possible reasons why. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62eCT40iLNk)

Being critiqued for your acting and such is livable, but being set up as part of creepy alt-right conspiracy theories? That's gotta take a tole on your optimism should you be made aware of it (and by all account on Twitter, they all are).
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Greg M. 26 August, 2019, 07:43:55 PM
I can't say I'd considered any reasons outside of the film, though you may well be right. I just felt Finn - who was by far the best thing in TFA - seemed to have lost a lot of his charm and likeability as a character by TLJ.

Actually, I realise I'm being unfair on Adam Driver when I suggest there was a lack of charisma in TLJ - I think he does an excellent job with a character whose basic concept I fundamentally disapprove of. He actually manages to transcend what a godawful idea Kylo Ren is and make him compelling and watchable. No mean feat.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 26 August, 2019, 08:38:58 PM
the Mandalorian looks good but I will buy on DVD because there are tooooooooo many subscription services as there is ...

The whole idea behind Disney+ is to get you to subscribe so content made for the service is likely exclusive to it and only available on it. It’s not intended for a physical release as they want to eventually abandon the format, as they all ready have done in some regions.

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: DrJomster 26 August, 2019, 08:41:09 PM
This is the first trailer that has left me a bit worried I’m not going to like the film. I’m a bit surprised actually. The trailers are usually quite good, even for the films that don’t turn out that well. That bit at the end just didn’t look right. To me at least.

Right, having externalised that angst nicely, I’m going to park it and wait for the next trailer.

I might just rewatch this trailer a few more times first though. Just to be sure.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Colin YNWA 26 August, 2019, 08:42:56 PM
You lot claim to be Star Wars fans yet here we are 4 hoursa after this new trailer was first posted and we're still talking about The Last Jedi (brilliant) and Solo (muh) and not the fact that they cut a shot of Boba from RotJ into the Empire sequence in the montage bit at the beginning there.

What is wrong with you folks!?!
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Colin YNWA 26 August, 2019, 08:44:09 PM
Oh and can I just check is that Rey looking all dark sidey at the end there? I assume it is but I'm not 100% sure I'm missing the point?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 26 August, 2019, 08:50:48 PM
... he was a rogue and a scoundrel when we met him in Star Wars, it was only later as his character arc developed that he softened and learnt the importance of lurve and the rebellion

The film that ends with Han's idealistic young friend guilting him into saving the beautiful princess's rebellion?

I actually thought that mirroring of Han at the end of Star Wars and his helping mini-Maya Rudolph was the only clever bit of writing in Solo. *

Like you, I thought Solo was perfunctory, even if it's much closer to what I'd have said I wanted from a new Star Wars film if you'd asked me that question any time in the last 37 years.

SOLO is probably the most competently written of the Disney Wars flix but feels the most pedestrian in execution, though none of it feels like it’s a betrayal of the character. I’d find it harder to believe that Han was born a scoundrel and lived his whole life as one until Luke & Leia showed up. He was obviously someone who became more hardened as he learned to live the pirate life.


: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Hawkmumbler 26 August, 2019, 09:34:06 PM
Oh and can I just check is that Rey looking all dark sidey at the end there? I assume it is but I'm not 100% sure I'm missing the point?

Corporate back tracking on the progress Johnson and Co. made with TLJ to produce a safer fan wanky picture to round out the trilogy.

Dark side Rey wooooohhhhhoooo isn't that something?! 'Snooooz'
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: dweezil2 27 August, 2019, 07:10:02 AM

I found Solo a pretty depressingly redundant affair

Everything past Return of the Jedi is redundant. But if we have to have new Star Wars films, and apparently we do, then Solo was mostly great fun and had a couple of charismatic leads. Emilia Clarke had more charm in her little finger than the entire casts of Rogue One and TLJ combined. (And I really liked John Boyega in TFA, but by TLJ, he seemed to have had his joie de vivre drained out of him.)

Glad you enjoyed it, but I found the whole thing tedious with flat direction and performances.
Far too many eye rolling moments, including how Solo got his name!
I don't need beloved characters like Han Solo to be demystified for me, especially in such a hamfisted manner, that was the prequel's problem too.
At least TLJ stirred some emotion in me, with the internal conflict that Rey and Kylo were experiencing, my interest level never raised above boredom with Solo.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Keef Monkey 27 August, 2019, 08:45:44 AM
Excited for this, but going to do my usual and avoid the trailers. I've done it for the last bunch of Star Wars movies and it served me well, I pretty much went into them knowing nothing and with hype at minimal levels, and the hype only really hit me when the titles hit the screen and the music started up. Can't wait.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Steve Green 27 August, 2019, 12:13:32 PM
For those who don't do FB, I cut together a trailer using the same edits (more or less) as the Mandalorian one, but used similar shots from Minty and Strontium Dog...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QygGeNbbbyo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QygGeNbbbyo)

It was quite funny seeing stuff line up...
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 27 August, 2019, 12:21:30 PM
For those who don't do FB, I cut together a trailer using the same edits (more or less) as the Mandalorian one, but used similar shots from Minty and Strontium Dog...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QygGeNbbbyo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QygGeNbbbyo)

It was quite funny seeing stuff line up...

Clever bugger, aintcha.

Still think SD would make one hell of a Netflix show, and your short is proof of concept.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Steve Green 27 August, 2019, 12:35:34 PM
Cheers,

Yeah, it definitely would.

More feasible than MC:1 on a budget too.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 27 August, 2019, 06:31:10 PM
Not inspired by that new trailerette, TBH. As a big fan of TLJ, this felt like an apology for that film, rather than a development from its intriguing ending. But I suppose Abrams was always going to go that way.

The trailer itself seems to be depending on the dubious appeal of IX being yet another conclusion to the OT, rather than the conclusion of the ST itself. See also: Palpatine gazumping Kylo. To which I say 'bah'.

Also, my vote is that Evil Rey is either a vision (cheap), a clone or secret twin (with Rey also being a clone/twin, rescued and hidden on Jakku),. Again, 'bah'. 

Also: Solo great fun, I believed in Young Han completely.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Funt Solo 27 August, 2019, 06:38:11 PM
Was that a real trailer?  I thought it was fan-made...
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Apestrife 27 August, 2019, 06:59:46 PM
The fold out double lightsaber bothers me more than it should  :|
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Frank 27 August, 2019, 07:01:06 PM

The fans who loved Last Jedi hate this promo because it undoes Last Jedi and the fans who hated Last Jedi hate this promo because it's too much like Last Jedi:


(https://i.imgur.com/0jhkheq.png?2)


: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 28 August, 2019, 07:34:45 AM
Bloody fans. Who'd be a billionaire studio boss, eh?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Mardroid 29 August, 2019, 11:47:53 PM
The fold out double lightsaber bothers me more than it should  :|

I don't mind the concept... but it's something I'd prefer to unfold BEFORE igniting I think. Lightsabers are enough of a H&S nightmare as they are. 😆

I liked the trailer, but I'm easily impressed in some ways. The fact I like all the films, even the films that most fans (at least our generation) consider awful proves this, (although Phantom... was trying at times.).

: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Tiplodocus 31 August, 2019, 02:47:26 PM
I thought that looked fun. I won't try and second guess what bits of TLJ they are running with and which they are ditching.

I particularly liked the look of a lightsaber fight on the half sunken remains of the Death Star. A nice opposite to the Revenge of The Sith lava fight.

Gigantic fleets of Star Destroyers don't seem to make much sense given the state of the First Order and Empire but the economics of Star Wars never stood up to much scrutiny.

And that totally looked like an older Rey to me... maybe her mum was a Sith.

So yeah, excited for this.  Is that Ok with everyone? Should I be jaded and cynical about it instead?
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: soggy 31 August, 2019, 04:52:41 PM

Gigantic fleets of Star Destroyers don't seem to make much sense given the state of the First Order and Empire but the economics of Star Wars never stood up to much scrutiny.


Judging by the way the ships are all lined up, it may just be a junkyard, or at best a mothballed reserve fleet.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: radiator 14 September, 2019, 02:06:27 AM
I can't stop looking at the the official Rise of Skywalker poster. It's so weird.

It's not terrible per se, it's just that it looks like it should be the cover of a tie-in Star Wars novel or videogame rather than a major motion picture. It looks cheap*, and a far cry from the excellent teaser poster for The Last Jedi.

(https://i.etsystatic.com/20952204/r/il/91c73d/1986167922/il_794xN.1986167922_1rib.jpg)

*I gather the still of Palpatine was actually sourced from a photo of a toy, which is quite amusing.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: moogie101 14 September, 2019, 05:27:39 AM
From looking at that I'd assume it was a poster for an animated movie.

Although after the last two it will be a pass from me anyway.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 14 September, 2019, 07:48:26 AM
More like the wrapper of an unlicensed multi-flavoured ice pop cheekily called 'Space Wars'.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: IAMTHESYSTEM 14 September, 2019, 11:17:52 AM
There are reports online that the Production team shot up to six different endings. I guess you could say having a selection of alternative finishes is a good idea, but perhaps it shows a lack of faith in the material. I hope that isn't the case, and I don't know for the moment about any reshoots as such. You'd think they'd start with a pretty strong narrative, to begin with, that pointed toward a particular conclusion. Disney has made it clear that after this Film Star Wars movies are going on a hiatus. It might be that this Movie is the last film in the Star Was saga ever made if the Disney Plus TV series do well.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Colin YNWA 14 September, 2019, 11:37:41 AM
Read recently that Rian Johnson is still working on his new trilogy. Might be the last we see of the original saga mind.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 14 September, 2019, 11:49:54 AM
Apart from the odd special edition print by a third-party vendor, posters have been mostly reduced to clumsy photo-collages rather than distinctive art pieces — they aren’t the priority pieces of fine-art marketing they once were. With the advent of Black Mirror devices they have been replaced by YouTube teasers and trailers as the initial point of public-access for whatever film or TV show’s being sold.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 14 September, 2019, 12:00:46 PM
It might be that this Movie is the last film in the Star Was saga ever made if the Disney Plus TV series do well.

I doubt it. Disney originals and acquired IPs are all now multi-platform brands that are recycled/remade dozens of times.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 14 September, 2019, 12:54:32 PM
It might be that this Movie is the last film in the Star Was saga ever made if the Disney Plus TV series do well.

I doubt it. Disney originals and acquired IPs are all now multi-platform brands that are recycled/remade dozens of times.

My feeling is that 'LAST EVAH!' is part of the push to frame this movie as both an event (understandable) and as a continuation of the OT, rather than this newfangled Disney trilogy. There may also be an undertone of 'look what your troll boycott of Solo did, go to this one or that's it, there'll be no more SW movies before bedtime'. 
I
Give it less than 2 years before 'George's original 12-movie outline' is trotting around the astroturf circuit. (Not that I object).
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Professor Bear 14 September, 2019, 03:07:41 PM
JJA is already on record saying that Finn and Ray 's stories won't end in Episode 9, and considering the moolah The Diz has invested in suppressing worker's rights and pay building a Star Wars theme park that only just opened, I'll be surprised if they make it 18 months without an announcement about a new movie.
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Frank 14 September, 2019, 03:16:21 PM
JJA is already on record saying that Finn and Ray's stories won't end

One in the eye for all those urging Tharg to cancel Sinister Dexter.


: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: JOE SOAP 14 September, 2019, 03:25:25 PM

Disney all ready announced new SW films for December 16, 2022; December 20, 2024; and December 18, 2026.

https://deadline.com/2019/05/star-wars-movies-new-mutants-disney-fox-release-schedule-1202608933/
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: broodblik 14 September, 2019, 03:28:27 PM
I will try to keep an open mind but I do not have hope for RJ to do justice to the next trilogy
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: IAMTHESYSTEM 14 September, 2019, 04:55:03 PM

Disney all ready announced new SW films for December 16, 2022; December 20, 2024; and December 18, 2026.

https://deadline.com/2019/05/star-wars-movies-new-mutants-disney-fox-release-schedule-1202608933/

Blimey, I had no idea of future films. That's interesting news. I think there were stories about the Knights of the Old Republic possibly becoming a series of films. Revenge of the Prequels!   
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: TordelBack 14 September, 2019, 06:57:40 PM
I will try to keep an open mind but I do not have hope for RJ to do justice to the next trilogy

Whereas I have high hopes! Johnson gets 'my' Star Wars better than anyone since Kasdan & Marquand. Takes all sorts!
: Re: Star Wars Episode IX
: Leigh S 14 September, 2019, 07:04:37 PM
I see they have given Rey a little something to keep the incels happy  :o