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2000 AD => General => Topic started by: Colin YNWA on 29 March, 2021, 06:33:01 AM

Title: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Colin YNWA on 29 March, 2021, 06:33:01 AM
So welcome to the knockouts of Dredd Epics Ranked - Better. Round one - exciting!

Seed 9 has got to be one of the favourites, even with its relatively low seeding BUT let's test that as it comes up against a modern classic, the last part of which I'm literally re-reading now in my Prog Slog, so I have opinions on to say the least! Fascinated to see how this one turns out.

Seed 8 Titan /Enceladus (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/12/epics-9-7-short-but-oh-so-sweet.html) Progs 1862-1869, 1924-1928, 1940-1947

Vs

Seed 9 Necropolis (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/12/epics-13-10-nostalgic-favourites.html) - Progs 662 - 699

Back to the simple purity of popping the name of the Epic you prefer in a reply to this thread (remember to mark it clearly so I can spot it - bold tags are good) and then say whatever the heck you like to about these two great stories.

We're also back to 3 day votes so this one will close first thing in the morning Thursday 1st of April - winner advance to the Quarter Finals - loser goes into the 16th - 9th playoff vote.

All links go through to AlexF's simply brilliant Dredd Epics Ranked (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/) blog. You may need to scroll to find his write up of a particular story - but I'd suggest just reading the whole thing anyway - it's fantastic stuff.

Baffled by what's going on here - well we have a  a thread for that (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=47367.0) - though that might leave you more confused than anything.

Rules (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=47367.msg1053448#msg1053448) for what they are worth.

Not sure about anything just ask and I'll blag it.


Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Magnetica on 29 March, 2021, 07:10:39 AM
This is an easy one, unlike today's other vote:

Necropolis.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: WhizzBang on 29 March, 2021, 07:27:26 AM
Necropolis
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: abelardsnazz on 29 March, 2021, 07:53:02 AM
As Rob Williams' first solo long-form story, Titan/Enceladus has a lot going for it - threat to the city, Dredd broken, Henry Flint - but it's up against the ultimate Dark Judges epic. So it's Necropolis for me.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: broodblik on 29 March, 2021, 08:00:09 AM
Grate timing from me I reread Titan/Enceladus this weekend and it is a great Dredd story very dark, gritty a lot of great action and some interesting twists and turns. Flint provides an excellent Dredd as always. Necropolis is an even more darker and the back stories with the Dead Man and Dredd questioning the system gives it an extra layer of complexity. Ezquerra's art like Flints are excellent. The scope of Necropolis is huge and that is why it gets my vote. So yes Necropolis for me.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 29 March, 2021, 08:22:59 AM
necropolis
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 29 March, 2021, 08:49:01 AM
Enceladus/ Titan.

SBT
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 29 March, 2021, 08:53:15 AM
Necropolis
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: AlexF on 29 March, 2021, 09:19:09 AM
Even more than the earlier rounds, I feel somewhat obliged to side with my own rankings...
and in fact in this case that's no problem. Titan/Enceladus for me!
When you remove the Dead Man, Necropolis ends up 2/3 of an all-time best epic, but it doesn't quite stick the landing, and sacrilege though it may be to say it, Flint's art on his mega-epic is, for me, better than King Carlos and his first full-colour epic - he never was the best at drawing other artist's creations.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Barrington Boots on 29 March, 2021, 09:20:46 AM
Despite Alex's impassioned defence, can't look beyond Necropolis here.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Colin YNWA on 29 March, 2021, 09:32:12 AM
Quote from: AlexF on 29 March, 2021, 09:19:09 AM
Even more than the earlier rounds, I feel somewhat obliged to side with my own rankings...
and in fact in this case that's no problem. Titan/Enceladus for me!
When you remove the Dead Man, Necropolis ends up 2/3 of an all-time best epic, but it doesn't quite stick the landing, and sacrilege though it may be to say it, Flint's art on his mega-epic is, for me, better than King Carlos and his first full-colour epic - he never was the best at drawing other artist's creations.

I don't think any views that suggest Titan / Enceladus is better that Necropolis are going to sway this one away from being an almighty landslide but for the record I absolutely agree with all of this.

Necropolis is an Epic of fantastic moments, but ultimately doesn't stick the landing and isn't as good as the build up to it. I also prefer Henry Flint's art to Carlos' - which I think gets me stoned as I'm run out of town?

I'm just coming to the end of a re-read of the more modern epic here and aside from the slight wearness of seeing another Epic with Dredd beaten to the edge and taking punishment beyond measure (which is actually kinda the point of the first part of the story) its absolutely edge of the seat - rollercoaster epic stuff.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Tomwe on 29 March, 2021, 09:40:41 AM
Whew what a way to start a week: Necropolis.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: broodblik on 29 March, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
I see the Dead Man and the rest of the build up stories before as part of Necropolis otherwise it is just an epic about "destruction".

That is why I also see the Titan and Enceladus storylines as one big epic rather than 3 separate stories
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Link Prime on 29 March, 2021, 10:53:27 AM
Necropolis by a multiplication factor of the quantity of skulls on Deadworld.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 29 March, 2021, 11:07:48 AM
As with the other vote, I would love to buck the prevailing trend but it has to be Necropolis for me, fluffed ending or not.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: maryanddavid on 29 March, 2021, 11:17:25 AM
Necropolis.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Tjm86 on 29 March, 2021, 11:28:43 AM
I would have to agree with regard to Flint's artwork on Titan / Enceladus.  From his early days on Fleischer's (whisper his name ...) Rogue Trooper to this is amazing development.  Ezquerra's work on Necropolois is certainly not the best to be sure, then again I'm a major fan of his early Strontium Dog work which I think is amongst his best work.  I would have to agree with his rendition of the Dark Judges.

Neither story is perfect either.  The ending notwithstanding, the sudden shift in narrative felt a bit cheating to me when I first read it back in the day.  It holds together better now but even so ...

I feel a little like I need to go back and re-read Titan / Enceladus too.  My recollection of it isn't as strong which doesn't augur well for it either.  It felt a bit at times like there were some great ideas that just didn't seem to make sense.  (I still don't get Dredd and the horse ...)

So I'm going to go old-school with Necropolis at this stage.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Mikey on 29 March, 2021, 12:19:51 PM
On the other vote thread, I mentioned I recently re read Apocalypse War. The reason I did is because I had done a re read of Titan/Enceladus late last year - think that indicates where I'm voting!

Necropolis is a true classic epic - it's not that complex, but is full of great moments.

So it's Titan/Enceladus for me.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 29 March, 2021, 12:33:08 PM
Definitely Necropolis.  Yeah, the last couple of episodes were a bit rushed, but like every decent Wagner epic, it didn't finish with the 'The End' caption.  The repercussions went on for years and helped shape the lead-up to Mechanismo and the culmination of the democracy arc.  (I just wish Garth Ennis hadn't been the one to kill Big Tommy Silver - like McGruder, he deserved better.)
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Dog Deever on 29 March, 2021, 12:41:26 PM
Necropolis.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Bolt-01 on 29 March, 2021, 02:19:54 PM
Necropolis.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: CalHab on 29 March, 2021, 02:38:46 PM
Necropolis.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Southstreeter on 29 March, 2021, 02:50:34 PM
Necropolis

The culmination of years of storylines, plus never bettered art. I like Titan, but it's basically Dredd being beaten up repeatedly.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Rogue Judge on 29 March, 2021, 03:09:07 PM
Necropolis

Necropolis is a dark, exciting epic, one I always look forward to re-reading.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: BPP on 29 March, 2021, 03:14:36 PM
Titan / Enceladus for me.

Although I expect we'll have the dead man v necropolis as the final and people's heads will explode.

Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Funt Solo on 29 March, 2021, 03:55:31 PM
Necropolis, natch.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Colin YNWA on 29 March, 2021, 04:46:36 PM
Quote from: BPP on 29 March, 2021, 03:14:36 PM
Although I expect we'll have the dead man v necropolis as the final and people's heads will explode.

This was of course always the plan... BOOM!!!
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 29 March, 2021, 05:00:56 PM
tbh for most of my votes here, the writing has been the clincher, especially when wagner is on fire with his multi year layering of rich sub plots that always, always, always, pay off.
but my vote here went for necropolis despite my feeling that this is one of the master's weaker scripts. honestly, it's such an unsubtle, all-action, fast read, a gaudy telephone directory that reads faster than early noughties marvel at their most compressed disdain for words.
titan is a much richer literary experience imho.
but carlos here makes it a non-contest. seriously, these pages are dangerous in their leaking-off-the-pages violent radioactive audacity. what an experience to know there will be something definitive and exhausting and awe-inspiring with every turn of every page.
i wouldn't want all my dredd to be like this, but what a kinetic and beautifully horrible artefact the collected necropolis is. gave me some serious lucid nightmares when i was younger too - which all the best sci-fi kids' comics should.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: DrJomster on 29 March, 2021, 10:22:41 PM
Titan / Enceladus Gets my vote.

Some interesting premises and gorgeous art. And yes, Dredd does suffer a bit in this one!

In comparison, I've just never really liked Necropolis. It doesn't draw me in at all. On paper, it really should.... but it's just a bit "ho hum, here come the dark judges again" with a bit of "a gang of kids on the run" type stuff. By the way, you can't see it, but I'm ducking for cover as I type this!
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Dr Feeley Good on 29 March, 2021, 11:01:40 PM
No comparison whatsoever, got to be Necropolis by a country mile...
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 29 March, 2021, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: DrJomster on 29 March, 2021, 10:22:41 PM"ho hum, here come the dark judges again" with a bit of "a gang of kids on the run" type stuff. By the way, you can't see it, but I'm ducking for cover as I type this!

No, no, no, your opinion is clearly wrong.  Mortis is the best of the Dark Judges and that was his best ever scene.  I'm going to duff you up till you agree.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Andy B on 30 March, 2021, 01:41:29 AM
If we were voting for Necropolis including all the build up, then I'd vote for that. But I believe The Dead Man is its own thing, so I'll give a pointless vote to Titan / Enceladus. There's a lot more going on in that story than in the 26-part Necropolis, and Flint's art, for me, has the edge: he did a sensational job on this one.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: GoGilesGo on 30 March, 2021, 06:39:34 AM
The 5th season of The Sopranos did something really interesting. It introduced a raft of yesterday's gangsters convicted in a huge FBI sting, now newly released after a two decade stretch in prison. It was great sociological storytelling, focussing on how some slipped right back into their old lives, some butted heads and some simply could not adjust. Enceladus could have been so, so much better had Rob Williams gone down that route rather than, ahem, ice zombies.

I understand Kenneth Niemand is exploring something similar with A Penitent Man in the upcoming prog, but imagine the same theme with 500 judges brought back from Titan in the aftermath of DoC. The Grand Hall desperate for able-bodies and willing to commute sentences.

That said, Titan is so strong; the art so good and, despite the supernatural silliness, Enceladus wraps up Aimee Nixon's story nicely.

Titan / Enceladus gets my vote.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: sintec on 30 March, 2021, 01:05:56 PM
I'm going to sit this one out as I've not read Enceladus yet so feel like I'd be voting on partial information.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Huey2 on 30 March, 2021, 10:56:50 PM
Necropolis.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Colin YNWA on 31 March, 2021, 06:45:25 AM
Having just finished the Titan / Enceladus arc last might I can say it deserves better, but Necropolis has always been a favourite... oh and any last votes get them in this one is closing down in the morning.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: I, Cosh on 01 April, 2021, 12:43:21 AM
If we were voting for best Low Life stories then Titan would be in with a chance. But we're not. Some of the criticisms of the story are fair but Necropolis has Ezquerra's best ever art. Those greens and purples just do it for me.
Title: Re: Titan / Enceladus vs Necropolis - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 2
Post by: Colin YNWA on 01 April, 2021, 06:42:35 AM
VOTING CLOSED

Well no surprises here (but wait for it). Interesting to see the thoughts and reasons behind votes. Overall though one of the absolute favourites just stormed through with good old fashioned love and respect. And so storming through to the Quarter Finals is...

Necropolis

Titan / Enceladus got a lot of respect here so lets see how that does as we shake things up for the places for the bottom half.