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2000 AD => General => Topic started by: Colin YNWA on 30 March, 2021, 06:32:10 AM

Title: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Colin YNWA on 30 March, 2021, 06:32:10 AM
Seed 14  the first true mega Epic - an artistic wonderland and probably the second greatest of all the ep... what no, no I'm not bias, vote for what you like, don't listen to me... just know that if The Cursed Earth doesn't get through I will track you down... oh I will... or Origins which, ya know Wagner, Carlos, just covered some stuff like the very creation of the Justice Department and the backstory of Dredd... nowt important like... of course it drew on a quite fantastic former Epic... oh look just vote how you will...

Seed 3 Origins (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/12/epics-3-1-bitter-end.html) Progs 1500-1504; 1505-1519; 1529-1535

Vs

Seed 14 The Cursed Earth (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/12/epics-13-10-nostalgic-favourites.html) - Progs 61 - 85

Back to the simple purity of popping the name of the Epic you prefer in a reply to this thread (remember to mark it clearly so I can spot it - bold tags are good) and then say whatever the heck you like to about these two great stories.

We're also back to 3 day votes so this one will close first thing in the morning Friday 2nd of April - winner advance sto the Quarter Finals - loser goes into the 16th - 9th playoff vote.

All links go through to AlexF's simply brilliant Dredd Epics Ranked (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/) blog. You may need to scroll to find his write up of a particular story - but I'd suggest just reading the whole thing anyway - it's fantastic stuff.

Baffled by what's going on here - well we have a  a thread for that (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=47367.0) - though that might leave you more confused than anything.

Rules (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=47367.msg1053448#msg1053448) for what they are worth.

Not sure about anything just ask and I'll blag it.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: broodblik on 30 March, 2021, 07:08:16 AM
Origins
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: abelardsnazz on 30 March, 2021, 07:41:25 AM
I get the love for The Cursed Earth, I really do. But when so many gaps in Justice Department's history are filled in, Carlos draws the whole thing, and it seeds Tour of Duty, for me it's Origins.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: WhizzBang on 30 March, 2021, 07:49:52 AM
A tough pair to choose from so going by memorable events count I will pick The Cursed Earth.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: BPP on 30 March, 2021, 08:28:54 AM
Origins.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Barrington Boots on 30 March, 2021, 08:42:12 AM
Origins by a country mile.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Mikey on 30 March, 2021, 08:42:33 AM
That's a difficult one. Cursed Earth is seminal and bonkers so sums up what 2000ad felt like when I started reading. Origins was good comics without a doubt, but for me was another of those turning points that precipitated events and yarns I found much more enjoyable than that story itself.

So it's The Cursed Earth round my way, by a Dog Vulture's whisker.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 30 March, 2021, 08:46:48 AM
Origins
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Magnetica on 30 March, 2021, 09:03:57 AM
This is a very difficult one. The Cursed Earth is the original Dredd epic and the art is out of this world. Origins was the start of a huge Dredd story, leading into Tour of Duty.

When I was reading it, I was thinking does this show modern Dredd can be very bit as good as classic Dredd?

It comes really, really close.

But I'm going to go for The Cursed Earth, because of Bolland.


And to be clear my vote is for The Cur-said Earth not the Curst Earth.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 30 March, 2021, 09:06:05 AM
Quote from: Mikey on 30 March, 2021, 08:42:33 AM
Origins was good comics without a doubt, but for me was another of those turning points that precipitated events and yarns I found much more enjoyable than that story itself.

Spot on. Origins is a great, er, origin, but not always the most original read.

Plus it wouldn't have anything to talk about if The Cursed Earth hadn't first given us Booth, Solomon, Goodman and the atomic war. There is so much worlbuilding going on in that first epic. Satanus? Vegas? Death Belt? Mega-City Two? Mount Rushmore? Okay, it's a bit scrappy and goofy, but man if it doesn't have bags of mad, crazy energy and invention - nothing that you could really say about Origins.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 30 March, 2021, 09:23:55 AM
The Cursed Earth for me. It's not my favourite of the early Dredds, but its episodic nature provides some of the most.singular memories of the strip at that time. Notably metal trees and flying rats.

Origins is okay- but there is something hugely anticlimactic about it, for me at least, and none of it sits particularly comfortably as the beginnings of the System. Much as the Star Wars prequel trilogy (whatever you thought of them) didnt quite match up to what had been in my head all these years, so Origins seemed... off, in some way.

SBT
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: maryanddavid on 30 March, 2021, 09:44:10 AM
Origins
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: IndigoPrime on 30 March, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
The Cursed Earth laid a lot of groundwork for Dredd, but it just doesn't hold up for me. The portrayal of Dredd is out of whack, clearly in a pre-Wagner-showrunner period. It's all quite hokey, messy and annoyingly episodic. I get why people like it, and it's frequently inventive, but it's not for me.

Origins also isn't one of my favourite Dredd epics. I get the reasoning behind it, and it's nice Wagner decided to fill in the gaps and give us a chunk of the story behind the history of Dredd's world, but on a re-read it doesn't quite excel like the best Dredd epics. (Amusingly, it also ties into Cursed Earth.)

By a smallish margin, Origins gets my vote here.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: AlexF on 30 March, 2021, 10:14:44 AM
An impossible choice!
The Cursed Earth is a story I read and read again and again, some of my formative Judge Dredd. I still get that thrill of crazed imagination on display when I read it now. But boy are there frustrating parts about the overall story structure and the rushed ending. All that build-up to a cannibal plague, and all Dredd has to do is hand over a backpack? And yes, it's a weird version of Dredd we meet here. But still...

Then there's Origins, a story I remember feeling a bit let down by as I read it week-to week. But I've re-read 2 or 3 times since then and I like and admire it more each time, am already looking forward to reading it again. I really do think Wagner pulls off an amazing trick of making you believe you've read about how and why the Judges came to be, and why that war happened - but actually there are precious few details. So much wiggle room for the likes of Michale Carroll to play around in!

I guess I think Origins is the better epic overall, but dammit if I don't just LIKE the Cursed Earth more. And, for all that Origins was, more or less, the prologue of a decade of story ending in Tour of Duty / Day of Chaos, the Cursed Earth was ground zero for a bajillion Dreddworld ideas that still carry on. Missionary Man! CUrsed Earth Koburn! Sleeze 'N Ryder! The Helltrekkers!

The Cursed Earth it is, and not just as a thank-you present for Liverpool's finest Colin for putting this epic-length tourney together.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Sean SD on 30 March, 2021, 10:20:47 AM
Origins for me
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 30 March, 2021, 10:23:40 AM
origins
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Tomwe on 30 March, 2021, 10:25:12 AM
Origins
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Southstreeter on 30 March, 2021, 11:24:52 AM
The Cursed Earth.

Tough one though, as Origins is a fantastic and important story. But nothing will ever top the Burger Wars.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: GoGilesGo on 30 March, 2021, 11:42:18 AM
I never read Cursed Earth in the prog, instead getting around to it in the mid 80s in a collected edition. I'd heard about the excised chapters but never read them....and that sums up the weakness of The Cursed Earth. The fact that I had read this saga multiple times and not missed the four missing chapters speaks volumes about the structure. It made me look at other chapters - Dark Autumn, Loser's Leap - and realise that they too, while being cool to look at, did not add much.

Origins all the way.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: DrJomster on 30 March, 2021, 11:45:54 AM
Cursed Earth for all its crazy creativity for me!
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: sintec on 30 March, 2021, 12:42:45 PM
This is the first one of these playoffs that's really made me have to stop and think. Both of these are genuine epics with big repercussions for Dredd. Think I've got to give it to Origins though - it's the more coherent of the 2, Cursed Earth is bascially a series of short stories strung together with a theme that ends up being a bit of a McGuffin.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Magnetica on 30 March, 2021, 01:26:43 PM
Just a thought - there are a lot of comments along the lines that The Cursed Earth was "too episodic". But most things were in those days.

TV shows were almodtvexclusively standalone week to week episodes. Season long arc weren't a thing for a good number of years yet.

Even long running series in the Prog were basically stand alone episodes with a very loose ongoing story. I'm thinking of things like Harlem Heroes/ Inferno and Invasion.

As far and Dredd is concerned, the only multi part ongoing story we had had up to that point was the Robot Wars; Lunar City was basically a series of one and two parters.

So for me, I'm not going to mark it down for being episodic, and nor will I the Judge Child.  And its probably even more of a testament to the Cursed Earth that it set up so much of Dredd's world despite its structure.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Bolt-01 on 30 March, 2021, 02:44:14 PM
Origins.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: CalHab on 30 March, 2021, 03:53:32 PM
Origins.The Cursed Earth is fun, but all over the place.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Link Prime on 30 March, 2021, 04:02:04 PM
I only really appreciated Origins on a re-read.
But it's the better of the two.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Andy B on 30 March, 2021, 04:03:16 PM
Episodic is good!

Cursed Earth
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Rogue Judge on 30 March, 2021, 04:03:53 PM
Quote from: CalHab on 30 March, 2021, 03:53:32 PM
Origins.The Cursed Earth is fun, but all over the place.

Ditto - this summarizes my thoughts exactly. The Cursed Earth is a ton of fun and chalk full of amazing ideas (stories taking place in the Cursed Earth are some of my favorite), but it is disjointed compared to a solid epic like Origins.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Funt Solo on 30 March, 2021, 07:19:30 PM
The Cursed Earth - cos it's packed full of crazy ideas.

Origins, for me, is like the Kessel Run or the Clone Wars - it all sounds amazing until someone sits down and tells the story.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 30 March, 2021, 08:54:32 PM
I think Origins is better written, I honestly do.  But I prefer my Cursed Earth all Old Testament and weird and full of broken bits of old America (rather than an endless desert with Wild West bits in it), and the Judges' origin story to be a sort of mythical tribal memory (rather than an admittedly brilliant political thriller). 

It was a daft story for kids, but Dreddworld would be nothing without it, so The Cursed Earth for me.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Huey2 on 30 March, 2021, 10:57:47 PM
The Cursed Earth
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Dog Deever on 30 March, 2021, 11:38:34 PM
Origins.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Dr Feeley Good on 31 March, 2021, 06:51:17 PM
The Cursed Earth easily...
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Colin YNWA on 01 April, 2021, 06:58:54 AM
Well this one is close BUT I think I know which way its going AND SO YOU HAVE A DAY TO PUT IT RIGHT PEOPLE. Don't make Poppa YNWA angry now - you know what you gotta do. So get ya votes in today before I count up in the morning.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: milstar on 01 April, 2021, 10:35:30 PM
The Cursed Earth all the way. Though Origins ties up some loose plot threads over the long Dredd's history.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Funt Solo on 02 April, 2021, 12:19:54 AM
What a sad state modern education is when people can't correctly spell "The Cursed Earth" and keep typing "Origins" instead by accident.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Colin YNWA on 02 April, 2021, 06:45:30 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 02 April, 2021, 12:19:54 AM
What a sad state modern education is when people can't correctly spell "The Cursed Earth" and keep typing "Origins" instead by accident.

I know - but don't worry I'm correcting as I'm counting. So far its 42 - 0 to The Cursed Origins... damn me and my spelling...
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Colin YNWA on 02 April, 2021, 06:54:12 AM
VOTING CLOSED

Right we'er going to have to got back and do it all again. And we will continue to do so until you all get it right. EVEN if it means staying after school. If you'd bothered to do your homework and read the text book you'd know that The Cursed Earth is the SECOND best Epic and Origins is number 13*. Right then lets do it again...

... okay, okay have it your way

Origins

by a fairly narrow margin takes this round and goes into the Quarter Finals and The Cursed Earth goes into the changing play-offs ... really must get to working that out proper....
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Colin YNWA on 02 April, 2021, 07:10:58 AM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 02 April, 2021, 06:54:12 AM
[The Cursed Earth is the SECOND best Epic and Origins is number 13*. Right then lets do it again...

Sorry meant to add

*This is my ranking not AlexF's
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: Magnetica on 02 April, 2021, 08:59:26 AM
I was flicking through my copy of the Uncensored editon yesterday; it's got to be the most treasured of all the collected editions I own. Now part of that is because I don't and will probably never own these particular Progs, but still it's just great.
Title: Re: Origins Vs. The Cursed Earth - Dredd Epics Ranked - Better! H2H Rd 3
Post by: broodblik on 02 April, 2021, 12:25:46 PM
Also what is nice about the uncensored edition versus the case file version is that the colour pages has been restored as well. Let's not forget the great Bolland cover as well