2000 AD Online Forum

No, NO, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo..! this is not some bloody critcisim of 2000AD in past present or future.

Just a query as to whether 2000AD can be split into rough Era's and where would those era's roughly be?  Obviously if you believe this is utterly futile (FFFFffff!) it would be a waste of everone's time to post it.

I'm off to have a think about it.

Actually I didn't go off and think about it, I went off and watched Blade, which was so much better than I expected.

Anyway I think you could probably split 2000AD into rough era's by company.  Yes, I do realise this is all rubbish, as 2000Ad has gone along rather a strange path, and has always had good and bad periods, but I'm doing it anyway.

IPC
1-200-ish.  A rather radical comic with lots of hangovers from the old ways of doing british comics while still being miles ahead of anything else going on.
200-500ish.  Which people would maybe call the clasic 2000AD period (I've just realised that someone has made this comment before). New artists are atracted to 2000AD and it becomes a genuine cult and it's influence goes a long way.  Didn't somebody refer to this as golden or silver age?

Fleetway
Many of the original creators go on to do something else, few come back, old series are generally cacked up and new series are often parodies of old series.  There are gems but not many.

Rebellion
2000AD is turned around and starts to become something else.  But even though we obviously  will just have to wait and see what exactly it looks promising.


You could alomst forgive IPC, it was always a rather imperial magazine publishing outfit, these were just kids comics after all and you perhaps couldn't have expected them to understand what they had.  The whole Fleetway thing seems to have been a bt of a wasted opportunity, all we got was a misreprasentative movie, and instead of a stepping stone to the next plateau it was actually a stumbling block.  At least the new owners seem to have some sort of purpose behind them.

How many readers did 2000AD lose?  Someone told me IPC used to sell 100,000 a week, but that could of course be complete rubbish, perhaps the readership grew for all I knew.  I know it's supposed to be 30,000 at the moment.

i think one should divide the eras into editorships. i think there was a distinct Diggle era and also a distinct bishop era, and looking at the older progs there were obvious changes between burton and mackenzie.

so now we are in the year of the MATT:)

Who?  Just kidding.

Yes, a very very good point and you didn't take a thousand words to make it either.  

I'd be interested in knowing who was editor of 2000AD and when.  I always liked Burton, maybe that was because of Burt, who was kinda cute, I don't know.

Actually... er... I think I mean 'who was Tharg's editorial assistant at the time'.

Close one there eh?

2k's greatest period was approx 1981 to 1990.

2k's worst period was when Tharg forgot the tampax and ...

oh shut up scojo!

scojo

Yeah it's kind of cool that a rug is editor.

Wipe your shoes on that matt before you enter my hab young man!

Yes Mrs Gunderson.

scojo

Tthe best editor was Steve Macmanus.  He was I think before Richard Burton( Burt) took over.

And he also screwed Liz Taylor.

What a guy!

scojo

>I'd be interested in knowing who was editor of 2000AD and when.  I always liked Burton, maybe that was because of Burt, who was kinda cute, I don't know.

>Actually... er... I think I mean 'who was Tharg's editorial assistant at the time'.

Obviously the dates aren't exact as one editor takes over he's publishing work commisioned from the previous editor, but heres the rough dates of thargs assistants:

PAT MILLS
1 to 85

STEVE MACMANUS
86 to 519

RICHARD BURTON
520 to 872

ALAN MCKENZIE
873 to 914

STEVE MACMANUS
915 to 971

DAVID BISHOP
972 to 1199

ANDY DIGGLE
1200 to 1273

MATT SMITH
1274 to Present

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan

Link: The Class Of '79

And you complain about Morrison's smut Scojo?

Can we have dates of human editors somewhere on the web please?

>Can we have dates of human editors somewhere on the web please?

I've just put up the names and prog numbers that are available on the web. Go to the profiles pages and click on the editors names.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

Link: The Class Of '79

Sorry, I'm in F*ckwit mode.  Do you mean the profiles page or that strange class of 79 thing?  

If you meant the normal 2000AD page does that mean you are a droid of some kind?

Anyway I've had a look at a few of the editors whose names I know (wot no Burt). Didn't Mcenzie have a beard or am I thinking of someone else?

Oh I'm confused.

While the editors are a good guide to 'eras', other things to consider are owners, the malign/benign influence of the sub/assistant editor (such as McKenzie and Diggle) and those sudden imposed changes/effects of available artists/writers - I would divide 2000AD into the following:

1-85  Pretty dire period really.  Only Dredd (of which a lot of is rubbish - see most of the Luna-1 stories) and Robo-hunter really stand out.  The rest is fairly forgettable.

86-126  The superior Starlord merges and suddenly the comic is improved no end with the inclusion of Ro-Busters and Strontium Dog.

127-177  Oh dear.  Tornado bites the big one and all the good work goes down the drain, as 2000AD is forced to take on BlackHawk and Wolfie Smith (Dave Gibbons later redeems himself with The Watchmen - just!).

178-307  The "Golden Years" part 1.  despite the odd early hiccup (Mean Arena, Meltdown Man), this was a period where 2000AD really consolidated what it did well.  The Wagner/Grant writing partnership starts and dominates the comic for the next 400 Progs. The best of the oldies return (Stront and Slade) while classic after classic start - Nemesis, Ace Trucking, Rogue, Slaine.

308-499  The "Golden Years" part 2.  Alan Moore's tenure as a writer of multipart thrills, combined with Wagner/Grant and Mills at their peak create some of the best comics ever...

500-588  The "new wave".  Moore leaves, but 2000AD trundles on regardless.  Replacements start to emerge in the form of Milligan, Morrison and Smith.  The Wagner/Grant writing partnership ends.

589-722  Crisis!  At this point, someone takes their eye off the ball - Ezquerra and Mills go with disasterous consequences - Mills work on Crisis will colour much of what he does from here on in with an overly preachy tone, while Alpha is killed off in the absence of the Moustachioed Maestro.  The new wave fail to fill the gaps left by Moore, W/G and Mills, many using 2000AD as a springboard to US comics.  The launch of the Megazine and Revolver further stretch available talent.

723-937  Disaster! Wagner, Grant and Mills set up their own rival with Toxic!.  2000AD tries to fill the gap with Mark Millars Robo Hunter.  The darkest days of 2000AD...

938-1199 Slowly the comic tries to rebuild itself from the ruins and that bloody film!  New writers Abnett, Robbie Morrison and Rennie help bring a little consistency to the comic, with lasting characters like Dante and Sinister Dexter.  This is more from the commitment of the editorial team than the publishers.  

1200 to present.  Rebellion give 2000AD the attention it has long deserved.  Still a long way to go, and until the next Alan Moore comes along, still not perfect, but definitely on the up (just give over with the smut, OK?).    

Wow.

PVS looks at his second hand, mammoth-battered flint that makes the pretty sparks and compares it to the Watchers variable function, computer controlled, self-cleaning omni-tool and weeps.

What I disagree with isn't even worth arguing about.

Well done the watcher.

Thanks for the kind words PVS.  It's a bit rough, as I wrote it in a stream of consciousness stylee - No mention of Garth "Heir to Wagners throne" Ennis or the horrific Fleischer/Burton nepotism scandal! It also doesn't cover the beneficial effect Diggle had while still assistant (the return of Stront and the improvements art-wise) or McKenzie's dance music miscalculations, to name but a few significant milestones in 2000AD.  And don't get me started on Morrison and Millar's total takeover between progs 842-849!

Wasn't Kelvin Gosnell the editor of 2000AD in the early progs - 2 to 60ish, when he went off to edit Starlord?  Pat Mills set the thing up and wrote the first issue, but I didn't think he hung around...

Hey it was a joke!

I thought it was funny...

Bloody funny you could say.

Oh ha ha ha cough

Oh me throat!

scojo

Watcher,I cannot agree with when you say progs 1 to 85 are dire.

Without them, 2k wouldn't be here today.

And I always thought 2k was good up to 1992 ish then improved again in 97 when kiwi man was in charge.

scojo

scojo

Perhaps dire is overstating it, but the comic certainly has more than it's fair share of clunkers

Dan Dare - three attempts to relaunch the character: all failures.

Invasion - entertaining in a "this is so ridiculous it's good" kind of way.  

Mach 1 - Blatant Bionic Man rip-off.

The comic had yet to find it's feet and it's not until the real classics kick in (Cursed Earth/Robohunter/Strontium Dog/Robusters) that the 2000AD we know and love today took form.

Shako!  Death Planet!  Colony Earth!  Ant Wars!
The Visible Man! It took the merger with Starlord to strengthen the lineup sufficiently to ditch this kind of filler.

The only stuff of real lasting worth lies in about half the Dredd tales and the quality of the art from McMahon/Bolland/Gibbons.  

I feel the comic did have something special even during those formative years.

It had ooomph!

You know?

That "this is 2000AD, come and read it if you are hard enough" attitude!

I think it's hard to criticise the early years now because we are all 25 years older.

It's the Star Wars syndrome all over again.
Most people loathed Phantom Menace becuse it was childish etc. But I think most children under ten would have loved it.

Whenever I see Star Wars now, there are bits to it I find embarrassing to watch. Yet in many polls, Star Wars is voted the best film ever.

When you read Invasion aged 11, then read the same story at 21, you are bound to think it's inferior.

Maturity breeds discernment.

Or in other words, as we get older we get to be right moaning minnies!

scojo who can't wait for Star Wars 2 - Attack of the Dolly the sheep Clones






 

There's going to be a fairly in-depth sounding 'history of 2000AD' series of articles appearing in the Meg this year to coincide with the 25th anniversary.  They're written by ex-Tharg and former journalist David Bishop and apparently cover a lot of ground and dig up a lot of unknown and intererestin old stories behind the creation and running of the comic.

You missed out the 'forgotten Tharg' Kevin Gosnell, who comes between Mills and MacManus.  Depending on whose version of the story you hear, he may or may not have been responsible for some of the editorial input stuff which is often credited to Pat Mills.

It was Gosnell who wrote the memo that led to 2000AD's creation.  In effect, the comic was his idea.  

Oh yeah, and there's Nick Landau too, who edited the comic for a brief time near the beginning and then went on to found Forbidden Planet/Titan Books.

Didn't the Dictators of Zrag edit 2000AD for a while?

N

You're right.  So they did.  I think they commissioned all that well dodgy Mark Millar stuff.  How else can you explain the early to mid-90s 2000AD?

And then don't forget that the Vector 13 Men in Black also took over the comic for a couple of months.

and the Vector 13 boys?

An aside. Starlord was superior only in terms of the paper it was printed on. It too had more than its fair share of clunkers, namely 'Timequake', 'Mind Wars', et al. It's hardly surprising only 'Strontium Dog' and 'Ro-Busters' survived the merger.

True, but the artists on those strips (Redondo and Ian Kennedy(?)), did sterling work, while 2000AD struggled along with the dodgy foreign agency artists for a lot of their stories.  I'd still take Mind Wars over Ant Wars and TimeQuake over Colony Earth any day, but I take your point - story wise they weren't exactly classics.  The real clunker was the story featuring Dirty Harry and the alien rats!

...and Planet of the Damned was fairly dodgy as well.  If only they'd had the courage to launch it as a fortnightly with 3 longer full colour strips...  Robusters with O'Neill and Gibbons, Strontium Dog and the VCs with McMahon and Leach - it would have been unstoppable!

Actually, you make a good point re: 2000 AD's policy of using foreign artists during its formative years. Also, Ian Kennedy especially is woefully neglected, in particular his work on the 1980s Pat Mills-scripted Dan Dare stories. In my heretical opinion his efforts far surpass the Frank Hampson original. Good to see Jesus Redondo and Garry Leach get favourable mentions, too.

please explain joke.

not understand  :(  Me stoopid

................................

Another way to define eras could be pre and post of major or groundbreaking series.

For example - Necropolis, The Final Solution, The Black Hole, The Horned God.

>Sorry, I'm in F*ckwit mode.  Do you mean the profiles page or that strange class of 79 thing?  

As we were talking about 2000AD on the 2000AD message board I meant take a look at the 2000AD website.

>If you meant the normal 2000AD page does that mean you are a droid of some kind?

Nope.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

Link: The Class Of '79

>While the editors are a good guide to 'eras', other things to consider are owners, the malign/benign influence of the sub/assistant editor (such as McKenzie and Diggle) and those sudden imposed changes/effects of available artists/writers - I would divide 2000AD into the following:

Maybe Wake with the help of the Nerve Centre should try and come up with a Thargs assistant timeline.

>1-85  Pretty dire period really.  Only Dredd (of which a lot of is rubbish - see most of the Luna-1 stories) and Robo-hunter really stand out.  The rest is fairly forgettable.

1-85, loved this era. Maybe it?s the old git in me, but as a kid these Progs couldn't arrive quick enough for me.

>86-126  The superior Starlord merges and suddenly the comic is improved no end with the inclusion of Ro-Busters and Strontium Dog.

Starlord merges and some of 2000's better stories appear but still the Progs continue to have yet hit their peak.

>127-177  Oh dear.  Tornado bites the big one and all the good work goes down the drain, as 2000AD is forced to take on BlackHawk and Wolfie Smith (Dave Gibbons later redeems himself with The Watchmen - just!).

A slight dip whilst the Tornado stories appear then get swallowed up into file 13.

>178-307  The "Golden Years" part 1.  despite the odd early hiccup (Mean Arena, Meltdown Man), this was a period where 2000AD really consolidated what it did well.  The Wagner/Grant writing partnership starts and dominates the comic for the next 400 Progs. The best of the oldies return (Stront and Slade) while classic after classic start - Nemesis, Ace Trucking, Rogue, Slaine.
>308-499  The "Golden Years" part 2.  Alan Moore's tenure as a writer of multipart thrills, combined with Wagner/Grant and Mills at their peak create some of the best comics ever...

I'd have to agree, my personal fave era, and as much as some great stuff is yet to appear and I still read 2000 to this day, but by this era the innocence of childhood has ended and as much as I enjoy 2000 it will never be the same again.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

Link: The Class Of '79

>Perhaps dire is overstating it, but the comic certainly has more than it's fair share of clunkers

>Dan Dare - three attempts to relaunch the character: all failures.
>Invasion - entertaining in a "this is so ridiculous it's good" kind of way.  
>Mach 1 - Blatant Bionic Man rip-off.
>The comic had yet to find it's feet and it's not until the real classics kick in (Cursed Earth/Robohunter/Strontium Dog/Robusters) that the 2000AD we know and love today took form.
>Shako!  Death Planet!  Colony Earth!  Ant Wars!
>The Visible Man! It took the merger with Starlord to strengthen the lineup sufficiently to ditch this kind of filler.
>The only stuff of real lasting worth lies in about half the Dredd tales and the quality of the art from McMahon/Bolland/Gibbons.  

Have to disagree again, I started reading the comic aged 10 and I loved all of the above stories except (Death Planet) I may look at them now and cringe, but at the time they kept me coming back week after week.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

Link: The Class Of '79

I said I was confused.  But when I went to look, I didn't find all the editors, so I though you meant something else.  Obviously you didn't and all the editors were posted up later, possibly by you, anyway.  So everything is fine and I'm not confused anymore.

So what we want (maybe) as logan suggest is a 2000AD timeline that features editors, owners, landmark stories, merged titles, artists and writers appearences dissapearences, notable incidents (such as the morrison/millar thing)all linked to stories and reminiscences about 2000AD.

It could be done on the website or we could have a nice fat coffee table book, like the ACTION, one but better, which takes a warts and all look at the comic.

Too late to do that for 25th aniversary I guess, I know there are those articles planned which sound interesting.

Oh, stop it, Logan. You're bringing a tear to my eye, snff!