does any one know where the likes of feral and the gronk went to ?
Filed under b:1n, hopefully!
feral
a character from the dark years. gone and forgotten i hope.
The Gronk, needs to b returned to thargs mighty organ.in his true form.
the first gronk is worn with honour by WULF.gronks are skinned at the time of there death,those offered to skin the the poor gronk upon his demise are truly honoured.
the gronk from the SDs story line was an abomination of a character.
the gronk was successfully used and had a wonderful role in the Big finish CD down to earth. they really captured the whole character of the gronk.
It's been suggested by some that the Offspring, a mutant held captive for a millenia in the current Durham Red series, could be the ultimate evolution of Feral...
Y'know, I've been thinking the same thing too. I didn't want to put an inadvertent and speculative spoiler on the board - but I guess if you don't know, if it's only a guess, then a spoiler it ain't.
Yeah, I think Speculation isn't Spoiler. If you've read it, or been told about what's going to happen that's one thing. Guessing what might happen next seems fair play to me.
After reading this week's prog I also began wondering if the Offspring was Feral.
Mind you I'm probably the only 2000AD reader who thinks Feral was a pretty cool character so I'd certainly be glad to see him reappear.I don't remember him having any sort of psychic powers though.
Natalie
I thought he was an interesting idea poorly executed, which I suppose happens a lot in the Dark Period of 2000ad.
Its certianly possible. Wasnt his father a Lyran Sorceror or something?
Yer Slips
Gronk back please... oh my poor heartses..
SD got a bit shit in the 90's, no fault of the Wagner droid (wasn't Ennis writing it then?) man that was a dark time for 2000ad.
Nigel Dobbin was drawing gronk then, we need Gronk back in SD, with Carlos drawing him.
Nuff said..
"the gronk was successfully used and had a wonderful role in the Big finish CD down to earth. they really captured the whole character of the gronk."
I got this, evetually, a couple of weeks ago, and it's brilliant. The Gronk is perfect, along with the rest of the cast.
>Nigel Dobbin was drawing gronk then, we need Gronk back in SD, with Carlos drawing him.
Dont think John is a fan of the Gronk.
La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.
I think Alpha with a gronk and Durham Red would be fun. Imagine poor scared gronkses with his long neck being stared at hungrily by Red, it would be genuinely scary! Oh my poor heartses!
No doubt the old Durham Red is barred (barring fantasy strips) because it might cause some character recognition issues amongst rebellion's customer base or some such stuff.
Then again if that meant we had Dabnett's Red in proper SD, then forget it.
IIRC, the Gronk is one of the elements of the old SD that Wagner has specifically decided to exclude from the revisionist version, so I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for his return.
I always thought Feral was a good character, it's just a shame he got buried in a strip that lost its way. I'd be intrigued to see if the Offspring has any connection with him.
I always assumed that the Offspring was Feral after he came out of that cocoon. He must have been in their an awfuly long time...
I wasn't reading at the time, what happened with all that "King's blood" stuff?
I can't remember.
the durham red thing has its poor reviews here, but this weeks episode was stronger,as for feral now turning up? if that happens it will be good only if it all ends with end of the universe and them all being reduced to atoms.
bring out the gronk as hero clix, i will be satisfied.
'I always assumed that the Offspring was Feral after he came out of that cocoon. He must have been in their an awfuly long time...'
Her emerged from that about ten years ago, although it was in a pretty sudden story wrap-up along the lines of 'the villians all get blown up within the space of two panels and everyone walks off into the sunset the end' sort of a way.
I think he ended up called 'Firefall' or something.
Wasn't it Fear-all?
Jesus.
wept.
Yeah, that kingsblood story was wrapped in a really rushed manner, IIRC wasn't Peter Hogan kicked into touch and Dabnett given free reign to finish?
Shame really as I was actually interested in that. Yes, it meandered around a lot, but I had a feeling the journey was worth it.
Bolt-01.
Her emerged from that about ten years ago, although it was in a pretty sudden story wrap-up along the lines of 'the villians all get blown up within the space of two panels and everyone walks off into the sunset the end' sort of a way.
I think he ended up called 'Firefall' or something.
I must have blocked all that out for some reason...
'I must have blocked all that out for some reason...'
You were standing right next to him at the time, McNulty!
Probably the booze.
Just to own up, the 'is Feral the Offspring?' theory was suggested to me in possiblt my first or second conversation with Natsan. If it's right then well done, if not don't blame me.
I, um, actually really enjoyed the Ennis Feral story that was set in some Mutant Ghetto that was a bit like Northern Ireland in space.
to be fair to Ennis, they had written him into a corner by killing off Alpha. I think (even now, even after Judgement Day and killer gronks!), that Ennis might have made a quite good go at Alpha, if he'd returned it to its Western roots.
As for "Monsters", he did the right thing - the ending to Final Solution (where the New Britain Government is defeated not by Alpha and an electronux, but by international pressure!) was such a cop out, that it was a good move to reverse the roles and put the mutants on the back foot... Not exactly the best of a bad situation, but a fair go - everything he did after that first one though....:)
If there's one 2000AD character I'd really love to draw it would be Feral.Not most artists usual choice but I'm a bit funny like that ;p
And I agree with one of the boarders' previous comments-he was a character with alot of potential.
Natalie(wibbling a bit)
Quite liked the Feral Stories my self, there from around when I started reading AD so I didn't have earlier stront dog stories to compare to....will agree the end was one hell of a cop out, walk off into the sunset...pah.
With regards to ennis I read the Feral story in classic 2000AD IMHO some of the best shit Ennis did for 2000AD, I reckon it'd be cool if the Offspring was Feral be a nice link back to the original SD universe...
CU Krestel
I'd appreciate some one doing a back story explanation for feral as well, never read it before as i'd only just started reading tooth at the time and didnt realy have a clue what it was about. (which is why i thought it was a load of old codpiece!)
So...who/what was feral? what was his mutation? what is the air/speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
I liked Feral too. Especially the Harrison covers.
"Every Dog has his day, Feral's day is coming."
I liked Feral too. Especially the Harrison covers.
The tag line "Every Dog has his day, Feral's day is coming" was memorable.
I hope Feral is in Durham Red, as it would tie in with some continuity to Strontium Dog and I always thought it a bit pants that the new 'Red (which I also think is quite tops) was just set in a time far, far away from the old stuff.
Mind you, last week's prg did show that she still carries her SD tag with her.
The Empty Suns is starting to pick up nw, it'd be a great twist if the Offspring was Feral/Fear-all/Firefall/Andrew Lloyd-Webber.
Perhaps Durham would have to dress up as the Gronk to lull the Offspring into a false sense of security and them BAM! the old fork in the eye.
I liked the "new" Gronk - the story that re-introduced the little fella was one of the bright hours of an often dark period.
Feral can be summed up by the phrase 'angry young man'. Yeah, he could have been interesting, but he's just a product of that late eighties/early nineties dark/grim/cool nonsense. Yeah, he's cool and angry and.. yeah, cool and angry and a bit gritty and street. Yeah, this is the way comics are going, Feral's the man.
Toss.
That'll do for me!
Thankyou kind sir!
Ah, but hes deeper thatn that, because every so often, against his will, he turns into a, um, giant plucked turkey that kills people? Am I getting this right?
He's also the closest thing we have to a goth...... (although reds been turned into one)
Slips
The post-solution SD stories were a mixed bag for me.
All the Durham Red stuff is fairly linear and it does follow up to where she is now - Approved.
The Feral story was more dodgy - Monsters was great, & him slowly progressing further into Fear-all & eventually Firefall was quite good too (on a character development idea level).
The problem was the Gronk - who ruined every story he was in after Alpha's death.
(Also - "The Darkest Star" is best forgotten as it has Feral & Gronk battling Lyrians & a zombie Johnny Alpha *shudder* - the Final Solution happened, but this story sure DIDN'T!)
Turned out that Middenface was the 'king' whose blood was needed (in a "all hail Mcbeth who shall be king hereafter" kinda way) which was a bit rubbish really.
"The problem was the Gronk - who ruined every story he was in after Alpha's death."
Well, actually the blame lies with the writers. The Gronk was as much a victim as anyone else, poor sod.
The problem for me is that FS, Dogs, Nu-Durham Red, Feral et al are part of THE ROT. Part of what turned 2000AD into a septic bucket of pus. You can excuse it, but it's all symptoms of the same disease.
I genuinely don't understand how anyone who has any love of the original Strontium Dog can have anything to do with all this rubbish. The same would go for original Robohunter and the nu-Robohunter. I can understand how someone might like one or the other, but not both.
Yeah I'm not accusing the Gronk...but it's just that Ennis & Hogan couldn't write the character for toffee, and while Feral & Durham were okay (not great mind, just okay) the shiteness that surrounded the Gronk really sucked.
That & the Alphabet Scientists crap.
Any editor when confonted with a script that contains "The Gronkinator - you know, it's like a Gronk and a Terminator" should really tell the writer to FRO.
Did the Alphabet scientist thing ever actually get tied up?
I agree, Stronitum Dogs was terrible, part of the "next generation" thing that claimed Robohunter and Rogue Trooper. I did enjoy the Gothlord story though, with all the bounty hunters after Red, even if it was a rip-off of The Killing.
I try to ignore that whole era and concentrate on eighties goodness and the quality boost that came in when Dante started (admittedly with a few hiccups) that contunues to this day.
I sometimes wonder,Paul,why you bother reading 2000AD still when all you seem to hanker after is some mythic golden age of the comic that never existed.I enjoyed the further development of the SD universe thru The Final Solution and,with the later stories,the focus away from Alpha and yet another bounty hunt.Feral may have been a grim and angry mutant but his emotions and responses are oh so ironically human.I personally think the end of Monsters was heartwrenching and considering the shit he went through during his brief history as a character it's hardly surprising he wasn't a bundle of joy.
I won't deny that that period of the comic was poor in story quality,infact I stopped reading it about half a year after Monsters(IIRC)but to label those particular SD stories as all being awful when there was some *truly* appalling stuff being printed alongside it in the prog,stuff that was cliched and one dimensional as well as badly drawn.I just feel your venom against the Final Solution and all the following Strontium Dogs stories is based entirely on the fact that someone had the balls to kill off a major 2000AD character that you loved and replaced him with someone else.
Or maybe I'm just as guilty of viewing 2000AD's past thru rose-tinted specs as you are ;)
Natalie(crikey,that's the most I've written in ages!)
Or, to put it another way, paulvonscott - you are the biggest grumpy guts in the star spangled universe!
Actually, I think Paul's got a perfect right to say loud and clear that he didn't enjoy particular stories.
I think reading over this thread that the sum balance comes out as the Strontium Dogs was a good idea that got fucked by too many changes in direction too often. I have to admit that I really enjoyed the early Ferals and pretty much everything up to the "Darkest Star", but from there on in the different story threads just didn't tie together. Also I HATED Nigel Dobbyn's art with a passion, which didn't help.
But I don't worship the old SD stories. Sure, they are great characters, but I remember at the tender age of 8 thinking "Blimey there's a lot of filler in here!"
"I sometimes wonder,Paul,why you bother reading 2000AD still when all you seem to hanker after is some mythic golden age of the comic that never existed."
Actually, if you want the answer in truth Natalie, I moan because what I see is a comic I don't think is good enough.
What I also see is how far a comic has fallen and how far it has to go, before I enjoy it on the same level as I previously did.
That doesn't mean bringing all the old characters back. I only like the old characters, because I don't think much of the new ones. I'd actually rather have something I liked as much as I used to like nemesis the warlock, strontium dog and rogue trooper, than have those strips back at the same level. For me, I'd like nothign more to underline that 80's period, and say, yeah, that was great 2000AD but it's over and we have a great new era.
Do YOU think thats the case now?
I don't, I'm pretty dissatisified with 2000AD at the moment, I think a certaing percentage of people probably are. It has probably contributed to a negative view of whats going on generally. I certainly could be a lot more negative about 2000AD as it is, I'm trying not to be.
I WANT GREAT NEW STRIPS.
I don't want the comic of 1978. I do Solar Wind for that, that's why I do it, that's my nostalgia fix, and even then I'm not wallowing, I'm doing something new, creative and having fun with it and trying to drag a lot of other people with me in a celebration of something that was great, but it's time in that form has passed.
I don't believe bringing Invasion back to 2000AD is the answer. I think nostalgia and retreating just to the back issue issues is a strange necrophiliac crime that ought to be highlighted as the moral crime it is.
Solar Wind is basically exactly what 2000AD should not be, that time is gone, and we can enjoy it's follies with a wry chuckle. 2000AD may beenfit from some of it's some enthusiasm in my opinion, but personally I suspect it's hard to feel that stuyck in an office on your own. 2000AD is a sobre comic compaired to what it used to be, and nostalgia has nothing to do with bringing that back.
I am currently working on three new comic strips for publication. They aren't reworkings of 2000AD classic strips, or fan fiction, or spoofs of old comic strips. They to me I hope bear some of what I liked best about comics, and life in general and are not intended to be a backwards looking venture.
Basically I believe you are entirely wrong about my having rose tinted specs, though I understand why you might say that. For instance there were lots of bad stories in 2000AD. I'm happy to say I enjoyed something and it was bad at the same time. I don't for instance see the point in bringing Invasion back, I love it, I don't think it's a good enough strip for todays audience, and I'm not convinced it has anything for todays audience. I could be wrong, but I understand exactly what I'm saying about quality and why.
I have a genuine disallusionment with the way intellectual material is used. This applies to Star Wars, Strontium Dog, Judge Dredd and others to greater or lesser extents. I think creatively they become the equivelant of sink estates. Great and popular ideas, that sufficate as a result of that popularity and deteriorate.
I argue against a whole raft of strontium dog for the following reason. Strontium Dog was nothing more than a good comic strip. That's all it was, throughout it's entire history up to FS, it more or less stayed true to a certain spirit and was enjoyable for that. It killed main characters off, that wasn't something I took issue with.
What I take issue with is someone going off on a very strange and negative tangent with something I was previously enjoying and finishing it on that nore. That's something I'm sure we've all experienced in movies and TV shows. It sucks. but I have said MARKEDLY that I don't dislike the art, and I don't dislike the writing, I dislike the strip and believe both energies could have been put to a ore positive use.
Secondly, having killed the golden goose, it's resurrected in a different form, again, we've all experienced this. In the case of Durham Red and Rogue trooper, I think that energy again would have been better put to create a new series. You could have written Durham Red and called in Whitby Grey (ok shit title) and no-one would have minded because to every intents and purposes it was a different character ina different strip.
Strontium Dogs. Well, a good idea to be honest, whose execution left little to be desired. Made worse by the fact that the original had gone. Now I'm not saying all of this was bad, I'm not saying there weren't good stories, but collectively, Dogs, Feral and Durham Red in my mind were overall created from a series of bad decisions and were the result of creative poverity and economic neccesity.
The curse of killing the golden goose and then bringing it back from the dead as a goose that only lays fools golds eggs.
I actually think with the megazine of yesterday (today it's a gem) there may be more mediochre judge dredd in existence than good judge Dredd. Personally I find that disillusioning on a deep scale. Then again I'm incredibly uplifted when we get a Sin City of a Flooks.
I don't comment on all the other crap that appeared when 2000AD was bad, because they've gone, there's no point saying Chronos Carnival and Zippy Couriers were dreadful again. I don't see ghosts of those strips wandering about in the way I have say Strontium Dog and Rogue Trooper.
I buy 2000AD because it does give me strips I like, I don't buy it to be miserable. True, some of the strips depress me, but I don't believe I'm that sadistic. I've only once thought 2000AD was hopeless and I gave up for eight years. I believe that slowly and surely 2000AD is getting better. I believe that the majority of people working for the comics are doing so to the very best of their ability.
I don't write to Rebellion and Matt Smith and tell them what they should or whouldn't do. Personally I think comics should be lead from the top. While I do complain about what I see, it's not for no purpose, I mean why are any of us discussing the merits of 2000AD each week. I see something wrong, I comment on it. To the best of my knowledge Matt Smith has a comic to run, he doesn't look at this board.
You may think I'm irrational and illogical, and like I anyone else I am to a certain extent, I bet I've repeated myself a dozen times on this ridiculously long post. But I've spent a lot more time thinking and considering my views than you have, and the above is an explanation you may care to appreciate or not of what I consider a fairly blunt argument.
If you want to call me a miserable twat, then please do nat, I think you are a perfectly lovely person, and please see these as rebuttals of a view I find offensive, not yourself. I claim the prize from Keane for longesty post ever.
Man, that was incredibly deep and profound...
I spent ages trying to think of something witty and amusing to sum up the argument, but basically I think there's truth in both viewpoints. Yes, the progs do deserve a good old-fashioned moan now and again but also it's easy to forget that sometimes lesser thrills got the job done.
In conclusion I like Feral and want to see more of him! (Dont bet on the gronks return though, Wagner HATES him...)
As a fellow grump (and oft times winder upper of others to grumpdom), I?d dispute the idea that 2000AD never really had a Golden age. When I pick up any prog between 200 ? 500 I can be more or less guaranteed a great read (barring a dodgy FS or some Mean Arena(and even Mean Arena did the job it was intended for when I was a kid)) ? stories like Slaine, Nemesis, Halo Jones, DR & Quinch, Robohunter, even such 'filler' as Ace Trucking ? When you haven?t read these progs in a while, you forget how bloody good these tales are ? how inventive and playful, intelligent and mature compared to most modern day strips. There was a definite Golden age, and a definite turn from that into something else.
The thought that people who don?t enjoy the comic should leave isn?t too constructive ? if (more) people had done that when things got really rough, then the comic would be have been dead a long time ago. If I really didn?t enjoy at least some of the comic, and didn?t see any hope of it improving, I wouldn?t be reading, I wouldn?t be here, and I certainly wouldn?t bother posting. I?m very pleased that I stuck with 2000AD. The turnaround isn?t just down to Rebellions influence ? the prog was weighted down by very poor editorial choices/necessity during the early to mid 90s. Someone took their eye off the ball, or decided to transform the comic into something it hadn?t been ? not necessarily a bad thing, until you look at the results that came from that!
Since then, the comic has slowly pulled itself up from something that really didn?t deserve anyone?s support to something that I?m enthusiastic about despite not always enjoying half the stuff. I'd like to think that for every negative, I can find a positive. If there are more positives or negatives at any given point, then that?s the way my posts go. I enjoy my prog, but I?d be the one with rose tinted specs if I was to suggest today?s progs were of the consistent standard of 2000ADs best years.
That?s not to say 2000ADs best years are behind it ? all it needs is the right mix of old and new (and probably the discovery of a new Alan Moore!) to shove us into a new and possibly better Golden Age. It may well never happen, but at the moment, I?m both happy with the good stuff and frustrated by the missed potential of todays progs in fairly equal measure.
I would sum up the problems with the treatment of 2000ADs franchises as not so much a lack of direction, but a multitude of conflicting directions. Lets kill Johnny ? but lets resurrect the strip ? lets make them outlaws, OK, let?s not now we?ve got another writer - let Dan use this character for this Space Opera story he?s always wanted to do (never mind if it makes any sense in the context of the original series).
Same thing with Rogue, once his direction was under the control of editorial rather than the creators ? take him off Nu Earth, send him back, get rid of the bio-chips, bring ?em back. What you ended up with was a series of stories designed to get the character into the shape Editorial wanted, rather than a tale that was designed to entertain.
It?s probably why I?m a little wary of the Samantha Slade stuff. Is this story sparked by a genuine new creative idea that will extend the original in a new and unexpected way, or is it based on a sketch by Gibson and an editorial desire to have old faces in the prog whatever the cost? As PVS says, I?d rather have an original tale free from the constraints that these resurrections put on a strip. That?s why I?d also be wary of trying to do a story that resurrects Alpha ? either let him lie (with as many flashbacks as Wagner can muster the enthusiasm for), or just dismiss the ?editorial years? that stripped the fun from these stories ? they sit like a huge dead weight at the end of many a classic tale. It?s hard to enjoy the original and the continuation, when the continuations so often undermine, contradict and restrict the earlier stuff so badly.