2000 AD Online Forum

Just been exploring the website after reading a reply by W R Logan in another thread and I have been looking at the the Top Thrills and Thrill suckers.

These show the top twenty thrills based on votes cast.

And also the top twenty thrill suckers.

I was just wondering whether it was possible to show ALL stories and their respective place in the ultimate league table and not just the most popular/unpopular thrills.

How about this (which I've just written for you)?

Any list that long has to be kept simple to avoid having too many database calls, which is why I've left the Series as the code, rather than the full name.

Wake

Link: Thrillpower Index

Thanks for that Wake.

Could I just check about the voting.

Is the first figure the average and the second figure (the one in brackets) the number of people who voted?

Best Thrill ever: Judge Dredd-Apocalypse War.
Worst Thrill Ever: Chronos Carnival-Colony of Five.

When the prog is good, it's very, very good. When it's bad, it's Drokking Stomm.

By my quick calculations, that makes the recent Dredd story "See Zammy Run" the MOST AVERAGE 2000AD STORY EVAH!


(#385 out of 770)

When the prog is good, it's very, very good. When it's bad, it's Drokking Stomm.

Change that to When the prog is good, it's very, very good. When it's bad it's the current Autumn offensive.

Is the first figure the average and the second figure (the one in brackets) the number of people who voted?

Yes. I've decided that anything with fewer than 10 votes is too unreliable a result to include on this kind of list.

Wake

How in the name of heaven did "The Robotic Revenge of Dr. Robotski" end up the worst-ever Sam Slade story?

Bear with me, I'm not claiming it's at all good, apart from the cliffhanger to pt 3, which is quite amusing, but consider the reasons Mark Millar's Slade stories are universally loathed.

In a Millar Slade, there's endless amounts of gory violence and over-the-top carnage of innocent people.  Not in this story.  Sam Slade is typically seen as some kind of media celebrity.  Not here.  Millar usually assembles a giant cast of supporting characters and murders them all by the end.  Nope, not with this one.  The art's usually not very good.  No, Simon Jacob did a wonderful job here - it looks easily as good as Armoured Gideon.

In short, Dr. Robotski, while again, not very good, is vastly superior to all the other garbage Millar did to our old pal Sam.  If you want to give lots of 1s and 2 votes, give 'em to Return to Verdus and Serial Stunners and Bisleyland and Ace of Slades and especially Keith the Killer Robot!  Compared to them, Dr. Robotski is a freakin' marvel!

--Grant

david page - agree strongly

gms - i actually liked even the robohunter by millar compared to the utter tripe in the comic around then

the only era worse than it has been the current recent autumn offensive and a brief period around 1000 to 1100 where REBELLION was buying the comic and the old owners obviously didnt know what to do to it as it got very boring

thank heavens for caretaker general (DAVID BISHOP)

i havent voted on the robo hunter stories yet as i have not read them for some years now

Is it true that David Bishop has the most of the worst stories ever?

On the same sort of topic, what do people think of the creators top twenty?  Some surprises, IMHO

1. John Wagner
2. Alan Moore
3. Brian Bolland
4. Mike McMahon
5. Carlos Ezquerra
6. Tom Frame
7. Kevin O'Neill
8. Wagner/Grant   
9. Cam Kennedy
10. Dave Gibbons
11. Tharg the Mighty   
12. Ian Gibson
13. Ellie De Ville   
14. Massimo Belardinelli
15. Arthur Ranson
16. Gerry Finley-Day
17. Kevin Walker
18. Wakefield Carter
19. Alan Grant
20. Simon Bisley

Link: Complete list

How can there not be a picture of Dave Gibbons on the top twenty page?

Did no one read Tornado and gaze on the vision that was Big "E"?

I was surprised by the lettering droid one - I mean, I'm sure it's hard work but can someone tell me a lettering droid who was less than perfect?  (Not counting artists like Rian Hughes doing their own)

Also very surprised not to see Pat Mills on the top 20 - I mean, I really don't like his stuff, but he's the founding father of the comic!

Heh!  Yes I see but our webmaster is in the top 20.....  Go Wake!!!

Yer Slips

Bubbling just under the current top 20 are Pat Mills (8.17), Dan Abnett (8.10), Frazer Irving (8.08), Henry Flint (8.08), John Smith (7.94), Gordon Rennie (7.92), Ron Smith (7.90), Jock (7.88), Garth Ennis (7.71) and Simon Spurrier (7.61)

Wake

Also, the following Droids just need one more vote to get into the top 20

Grant Morrison
Glenn Fabry
Peter Milligan
Steve Dillon

There are also three 'clean sheets'. Steve Roberts, Simon Harrison and Gary Wilkinson all have a Thrillpower rating of 10 - but fewer than 9 votes.

Wake

The voting part of the web site is a good idea but who actually does it, many covers, stories and Droids have very few votes. There should be some sort of regular e-mail that gives links to Progs & Droids with links so that people can vote. Then over a period of time the scores are more likely to be a reflection of visitors to the site. There could be a link on the home page and something that people sign up for.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

>>There are also three 'clean sheets'. Steve Roberts, Simon Harrison and Gary Wilkinson all have a Thrillpower rating of 10 - but fewer than 9 votes.

Never underestimate the power of the lone mum vote...

Once a droid gets into the top 20, the rate of voting for them increases - especially if they appear too high up in the view of the people who see it.

Wake

That's hardly fair to Harrison, is it?  Guy was a genius in my (sad fanboy) opinion.  I remember the huge extra thrill I used to get on knowing that he would be drawing for the next week's prog, so I gave him a Thrill-power score of 10.

By the way, what happened to him?  He hasn't done anything for 2000ad in ages.

can someone tell me a lettering droid who was less than perfect?

John Aldrich. Mek Quaked for his troubles and replaced with Aldrich Mk II, poor blighter.

Okay, I finally got off my lazy piscine butt and voted a bit more.

I made my first-ever creator votes, and was most amused when my - entirely honest - votes changed the top twenty completely!

Try it, folks. It's great fun.

Not only did I single-handedly move Alan Moore up to number 2, I raised Ian Gibson to a respectable eighth place and knocked Tharg out of the top ten to just 11!

(Sorry Tharg. It's just been too inconsistent over the years. It's almost like you've been more than one person.)

Also, an honest vote on Kev Walker made him vanish without trace with, happily, our very own Wake popping back in!

I intend to do more voting as soon as I have the time, perhaps in the hope we can have a better - and more Trouty - picture of existing opinion.

- Trout

I'm thinking of removing the Wagner/Grant Gestalt identity. Does anyone have any opionion on this?

Wake

It is a little odd, and warps the top twenty a bit.

Each of the two can be judged perfectly well on their own merits. When you do that, you have to bear in mind the collaborations anyway.

Are there any more of these combined entries for creators?

It strikes me we could have dozens of them, with artistic teams, the Millar/Morrison era and other stuff.

Technically, some writers are far more collaborative with their artists than others, too. Alan Moore particularly springs to mind.

It's all a bit too complex and, IMO, you should delete the Wag/Grant entry.

It would have the bonus of moving you up at least one place, too, Wake! :-)

BTW, I've reserved my "Wake" vote for now. I want to see how generous you are at the Dreddcon bar, if you go! ;-)

- Trout

Actually, the lack of votes for many people is nothing short of scandalous.

I've just pooped to the profiles page and glanced at a few of my favourites.

Do you know, I was only the third person to votes for the scary-looking Bryan Talbot?

Likewise, Chris Weston only has three votes, Eric Bradbury just four and John Ridgway only four measly votes!

Astonishingly, I was the very first person to submit any sort of vote for the great Ian Kennedy!
(For those not in the know, he did the Future Shock Airbase Hell, and the fantastic cover with the Spitfires appearing over the Big Meg and the line "Himmel! This isn't Stalingrad!")

I never bothered to vote before because I didn't see the point and I preferred to spend my time on the board.

Now, however, I will make the effort and - as Logan suggests - I think more people should dip into the voting section, too.

Recognition for these people should start here.

- Trout

LOL!

I didn't "poop" anywhere.

I merely popped in. :-)

- Trout

Thats nothing as to the injustice that some of Alan Moores superb future shocks and time twisters are sufferng as we speak Trout...

What I could do is put a link to a vote starved prog every week or so with a description of whats in it?  Would that encourage more voting - obviously, its recommended that people reread stuff they ahvent read for a while before voting - I know I have had to change a few of my votes after digging out the appropriate progs....

..For example, here's a nice little old prog...

Cry of the Werewolf need no introduction, nor does Alan Moores Skizz...

But what about that Alan Moore time twister - Art by Redondo - Inventor who devotes his life to time travel so he can return to his past reaches the end of the line... beautiful stuff, and only 4 votes.

Link: Prog 324

>What I could do is put a link to a vote starved prog every week or so with a description of whats in it?

I agree something needs doing but how about someone organising a more systamatic approach. A regular mail with a Prog from 1 - 100, 101 - 200, 201 - 300 etc and a writer, artist & character going out to any subscribers to the 2000AD site with links so they've just got to vote.
If they've never read a Prog/Story or seen work by the creators they leave it on no vote.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

I'm voting for stories and covers as I read them on my mega reread.

One of the biggest problems I have had though, is that as there is so much to vote for, I sometimes forget what I have voted for.

This is one of the reasons why I asked if Wake could set up an extra page attached on my profile page (and for everyone else with a profile too) which showed how I'd voted for everything, without the total vote calculation. Listed in numerical order.

So for example under the section Thrills, is a list of all the thrills, and the vote I'd given them arranged by the higest vote, (and then alphabetically) down to No Vote.

I don't think Wagner/Grant should be included (unless they were listed as tbgrover), just as Alvin Gaunt and other joint-creators are included.

TBH I don't really want an email being sent out to me, telling me I need to vote on this, that or the other. That'd just piss me off. I'd rather be able to check up what I need to vote for in my own time.

I think the voting system as it is works well, in as much as votes aren't shown unless they have at least 10 votes. The only thing I'd like is the possibility to vote something as "0" as this would be registered, and "No Vote" isn't, and there are one or two things out there that I want to vote for, but aren't even worthy of the 1 score I'd need to give them to get my vote registered.

>TBH I don't really want an email being sent out to me, telling me I need to vote on this, that or the other. That'd just piss me off. I'd rather be able to check up what I need to vote for in my own time.

Thats why my idea would be a subscription type of thing, you'd have to enter your e-mail somewhere as it would be a regular thing and take quite a while.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

Bloody hell that list changed almost overnight!  And in this week's chart (bracketed figures show previous positions):

1. John Wagner (1)
2. Brian Bolland (3)
3. Peter Milligan (-)
4. Carlos Ezquerra (5)
5. Mike McMahon (4)
6. Alan Moore (2)
7. Kevin O'Neill (7)
8. Ian Gibson (12)
9. Dave Gibbons (10)
10. Wagner / Grant (8)
11. Tharg the Mighty (11)
12. Tom Frame (6)
13. Massimo Belardinelli (14)
14. SteveDillon (-)
15. Cam Kennedy (9)
16. Grant Morrison (-)
17. Arthur Ranson (15)
18. Glenn Fabry (-)
19. Alan Grant (19)
20. Gerry Finley-Day (16)

Ellie De Ville
Wakefield Carter
Simon Bisley
Kevin Walker

It's not been a good week for established art droids as shock new writer entry Peter Milligan sweeps all before him, bouncing Ezquerra and MacMahon down a peg apiece.  Even more surprising is old warhorse Cam Kennedy's tumble to fifteen from last week's Top ten position.

But if you think it's a bad week for artists, take a moment to think of those troopers, the lettering droids.  Ellie De Ville out of the top twenty altogether, Tom Frame falling six whole places and outside the top ten for almost the first time ever!

Congratulations to newcomers Steve Dillon, Grant Morrison and Glen Fabry, all making comfortable inroads.  They'll be hoping to consolidate their new chart entries next week.  Commiserations to Simon Bisley (who took the news well from his pool in sunny LA) and Kevin Walker, whose "new look" evidently hasn't done him much good at all.

Finally, a shock as the man who wrote and monitored the chart himself suffers a fall From Grace.  Wakefield Carter - we're thinking of you!

I don't know about anybody else but I voted for both Steve Dillon and Grant Morrison when Wake brought my attention to the fact that neither of them where in the Top Twenty.

Dillon deserves his place because of, amongst many others, Cry of the Werwolf, Cinnabar and Red Planet Blues.

Morrison is there because of Zenith.

The question remains, what no Brendan McCarthy?

He only needs 1 more vote to be eligible for the Top Ten.  But with a Thrill-Power score of only 7.33 he's going to need to work much harder if he wants to make it to the big league.

(BTW, how do people choose their scores?  My heart sinks every time McCarthy's about to be in the prog, so I gave him a 3.)

I'm sure the Watcher came up with a good guide to voting.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

Thread 3914

Here are the voting tips that The Watcher came up with in Thread 3914 back in January ?03.

++++++
My take on voting is this

If a story is so-so it gets a five. Usually its something I dont particularly enjoy, but I can see its not actually bad and others might enjoy it. The scale slides down from there to a 4 (dull or just a bit less than I'd expect in terms of art and/or quality of storytelling) to a 1 (really obviously against all thrill power - what was Tharg thinking?)

6 or 7 are stories I enjoy, but perhaps dont engage me to the point I'm really gripped (or are let down by the art or some other niggling detail), while 8 is a really solid, enjoyable, all-round well crafted thrill. 9 and 10 is for the true classics.
++++++


La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

Nice one, cheers Mr Logan!

Maybe it needs a coda added for voting on creators?  Their thrill-power, after all, isn't gauged by as rational means as an individual story or invented character.

I've been voting according to how I would feel if I knew that this person was going to have a brand new strip in next week's prog:

10) Guaranteed quality
9) Thrilled to see what they're going to come up with.
8) Thrilled - they've only had a couple of misses
7) Interested - can be quirky so if it's good it'll be very good
6) Hoping they'll rise to former heights
5) OK, so they're in.  What else?
4) Unlikely to rise to former heights again
3) No former heights to rise to.
2) Can they really get any worse?
1) WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE THARG!  WHY DO YOU KEEP EMPLOYING THIS TALENTLESS PILE OF SHITE?? (aka Mark Millar award)

Wagner/Grant have been removed. Guess who that bumped back into the top 20.

Wake

Oh God no, thought we'd seen the back of him...!

:-)

Well done to new voters.

I'll keep making the effort as and when I have the time.

- Trout