2000 AD Online Forum

Hi Guys

I have been promising to write something along these lines for a long time now and intended to entitle it 2000ADs collectability but things change, especially my mind.

I think we are missing out on some of the mighty progs potential and this is something that has not been addressed or taken advantage of by the guys at Rebellion.

I?m 38 now and so can remember back to when comic collecting was just taking off in the UK. There was only the Forbidden Planet, which was based on Denmark Street, in the West End of London and soon after followed Dark They Were and Golden Eyed. Comic Conventions also started to become popular but they were only about 3 or 4 times a year.

I touched on what I believe killed off or seriously damaged comic collecting in the nineties, in a previous thread and so will not go too deeply into that but to start and set the scene, I will discuss what I believe fuelled the craze in the seventies and eighties.

Many people are like magpies, they enjoy collecting, but what they collect depends on what captures their interest first. It could be stamps, coins, art or in our case comics. One of the reasons collectors originally started collecting comics was because they wanted to make their sets or runs of comics complete. For example if you bought Spider Man number 4 and started reading from there and enjoyed it, you would probably make an effort to buy issues 1, 2 and 3 but since they are no longer in circulation you would have to buy from another collector and pay a premium. You would then keep these safe and continue collecting the whole series. This is true of most items that people collect but comics are unique in that they have many other factors which influence their collectability. For example first appearances of characters that later on become more popular, increase a comics value, thereby creating key issues. Hulk issue 181 introduced Wolverine and now sells for hundreds of pounds, Amazing Spider Man 129 introduced The Punisher and is therefore much sort after, X-Men Giant Sized 1 and issue 94 introduced the new Uncanny X-men and both these issue are priced at ?1,000 + for a near mint copy. This is also true of popular villains, I think Iron Man 54 introduced Thanos and X-men 5 introduced Magneto, both these comics are in demand and very expensive. In addition to these influences, another factor has arisen. Once an artist becomes popular, his earlier work, when he was less well known, increases in value. An example being, the late great Jack Kirby or even living legends like Neal Adams.

The reason I am talking about American comics is because they started to introduce artificial means to increase a comics collectability, such as multiple covers, crossovers and platinum covers, which as we all know, has now backfired. There is now a gap in the market, which I believe 2000AD can fill.

2000AD has all of the above factors, which instigated and fuelled the original comic collecting boom in the seventies.

Firstly, there has been a single run of 2000AD since 1977, currently reaching prog 1371. This would be a challenge for any collector to complete and ultimately a very satisfying achievement. Secondly, in this run, covering 4 decades, over 26 years, (you can work that one out!) there have been many popular characters introduced, thereby creating key issues in 2000ADs history. For example, as you all know prog 2 introduced Judge Dredd and sold last year for ?551 through Comic Book Postal Auctions. Prog 149 introduced Judge Death. Prog 228 introduced Rogue Trooper. Prog 1035 introduced Nikolai Dante. I will mention all the other key issues later. In addition, 2000AD has also launched the careers of many artists who have become massive world wide, as a result, their first works have appeared in many different progs, artists such as Brian Bolland, Carlos Ezquerra and in recent years, Henry Flint. The progs where their art first appeared will one day be much sort after.

Another factor which 2000AD has, which American comics don?t, is the inclusion of free gifts in certain issues. When free gifts are included, most are taken from the comic, used and then discarded. This means that the issues which are preserved with their free gifts intact, are then much harder to find, the comic is not complete without the free gift and cannot be considered near mint.

Apart from prog 2, all the other issues, from 30 onwards, can currently be picked up for a few pounds, many are being sold unwittingly at comic conventions for 50p - ?1.00, when they are a potential goldmine. In addition to the above, it is much harder to find near mint copies of the first 500 progs of 2000AD due to the poor quality paper that they were printed on

I believe that 2000AD is the new Marvel because it has all the factors needed to recreate what fuelled the original craze and like Marvel, there is a whole Universe of Characters, which has been built up and established in British culture over the passed 26 years.

With all of the above in mind, I have created a list of what I believe are the key issues that will eventually increase in value. I will also include what prices they are currently selling for.

Prog 1 (Very hard to find in Near Mint, with free gift, which was a Space Spinner. Top price ?551 Comic Book Postal Auctions December 2002).
Prog 2 (Very hard to find in Near Mint, with free gift, which was the Bionic Stickers. First Appearance of Judge Dredd. Top price ?551 Comic Book Postal Auctions December 2002).
Prog 3 (Very hard to find in Near Mint, with free gift, which was the secret agent wallet. Top price ?221 Comic Book Postal Auctions December 2002).
Prog 4 ? 10 (As with the above, much sort after and very hard to find in near mint, current prices range between ?15 - ?40 each)
Progs 71, 72, 77 & 78. (All these progs were banned due to infringement of copy write and will never be aloud to be reprinted. (Prices vary on ebay, but depending on condition they sell for between ?20 and ?40.00)
Prog 149 ? 151 (First run of the three prog Judge Death story. Also, first appearance of Judge Anderson in prog 150. Approx ?7.00 each)
Prog 160 (First appearance of Mean Machine and the Angel Gang. Approx ?2.00)
Prog 228 (First appearance of Rogue Trooper. Approx ?4.00)
Prog 300 (This copy is very hard to find with the free metal Judge Dredd badge stuck to the front. Approx ?4.00)
Prog 330 (First appearance of Slaine. Approx ?1.50)
Prog 780 (First appearance of The Button Man. Approx ?5 but very hard to find with the free wallet, which was attached to the front)
981 (First appearance in 2000AD of Sinister Dexter. Approx ?2.00. Although they did appear, for the first time, in the 1995 2000AD Winter Special)
1035 (First appearance of Nikolai Dante. Very hard to find with the free Space Girls Poster. Approx ?2.00)
Prog 1159 (Came in two covers. One with Devlin Waugh on the front and one with The Hangman. Very hard to find with the Hangman cover. The Devlin Waugh issue also had a free CD Rom. Approx ?2.00)
1208 (There was a pallet load of this issue damaged by flood and so it was not distributed well throughout the country. There are now very few in circulation and may be the rarest 2000AD comic after prog 2. Prices vary on ebay but it has sold for between ?20 and ?50.00).

In addition the Summer Special Super Comic from 1977 is very hard to find and sells for between ?20 - ?35. Also, mentioned above, the Winter Special from 1995 has the first ever appearance of Sinister Dexter and for some reason does not appear very often on ebay but when it does, it sells for about ?10. The first 2000AD annual from 1978 is the hardest of the annuals to come across and sells for about ?15 - ?20. There are some copies which do not have the 1978 date on the cover or the spine, also, they are not priced inside. These are very scarce and I have only ever seen 2 copies. I cannot remember what price they sold for but I value them at about ?50.

All the above comics are not the only key issues and I am sure many of you can think of a lot more. Also, I have not included the first appearance of any artists work, so if anyone has more time than me, it would be great to see a more comprehensive list.

My main point for writing this piece, is because I am trying to make the point that nobody seems to realize the potential for many of the above comics and if any of the other characters take off in a big way, such as Nikolai Dante or Rogue Trooper, then prices will sky rocket. I would love to see more of 2000AD back issues at comic conventions, this can only lead to new readers and lapsed readers returning to the comic. Finally, the reason I am saying that Rebellion is not taking advantage of this, is because at this years Dreddcon, there was only one stall selling back issues and they were from about progs 500 and above, many were multiple issues and it was totally uninspired. Surely the place to sell back issues of 2000AD is the Dreddcon, they certainly had enough space.

So, my message to you guys is, that you can pick up 2000ADs with first appearances and great artists, for a couple of quid, surely that?s a risk worth taking.

i have completed my collection now - i think the main problem is that u are missing the point, there are only a handful of uk comics shops left - we have a much smaller uk market with about 30,000 hardcore collectors that buy most stuff and any shop which sets up quickly runs out of the key issues u have set out above and as the price rises they are unable to buy them back in again

this is caused by a combination of greed and jealousy as our obsession with class means that a rumour of something being worth money spreads like wildfire to the ppoint that everybody wants the same amount for their copy or item (even though its in bad condition etc)

if u go down this route u may make a lot of money intially but in the long run it will end the same way as the adult and uk small press explosion of the mid 90s, which was fuelled by the fact that there were a lot of would be creators here and no market for them

all the adult comics had massive intial sales but then due to the sale and return nature of our news stand business they couldnt sustain them (dont forget in the uk u have to print a high number of first few issues without knowing how many returns u are going to get back, by the time issue 3 is out most most were in deficit but they were committed then with months of material commissioned, so u had to turn the pr machine and i think they started lying basically)

in the usa they have a massive chain of collector dealers, we have nowhere near that kind of market and ours is oly just stabilising now - by dropping the back issues and concentrating on new sales and merchandise

after the one off hit of selling their back issue inventory is gone, i think the industry will be on hard times over here again

stront692

You know, for a second there I thought this was going to be something about actually *reading* the damn things...

How much for a slabbed Future Quack?

Your real name's not Lestat by any chance is it? Maybe you suffer from an aversion to light or French cooking?

I don't see what Rebellion's meant to do about creating a back issue market.  Surely if one is to exist at all, then it can only be determined by collectors, and not publishers.

More pressingly, if people were really willing to pay high premiums for early pro work by Bolland, Morrison, Moore, etc. then surely they would have done so when the back-issue comic market was at its strongest some seven or eight years ago.  But they didn't, and all those bins of old 2000 ADs at Gosh! and Forbidden Planet were left largely untouched and only occasionally sold to visiting Americans trying to fill holes in their collection.

--Grant

"You know, for a second there I thought this was going to be something about actually *reading* the damn things..."

Nah - I saw who'd posted it.

So, my message to you guys is, that you can pick up 2000ADs with first appearances and great artists, for a couple of quid, surely that?s a risk worth taking

And, paradoxically, raises the value of YOUR collection. But I'm sure you're just in it to raise people's appreciation of 2000AD, rather lining your own pockets, yeah?

Because if that wasn't the case, this thread would make me VERY FUCKING ANGRY!

gmslegion - rebellion isnt supposed to create a back issue market (although they are doing a very good job at cashing in reprinting old and hard to find stories in graphic novel so our mate tarantino could well have a point - maybe they are the new marvel after all???)

i think tarantino is just flogging his wares and promoting issues he has a backlog of in an indirect way

sorry, Tarantino, but that post is WAY  too long for me to read. Could you not at least have divided it up into two separate posts?

sorry, Tarantino, but that post is WAY too long for me to read. Could you not at least have divided it up into two separate posts?

Or maybe even not fucking bothered?!

 have to agree with the long man, speculators have almost destroyed the comics industry once before why the hell would we want them back?
I find the idea of a brand new chrome covered #1 once every six months fills me with horror.

Yeah, I know that.  I'm questioning why this guy's trying to call this lack of interest in back progs to Rebellion's attention, as though it's a subject they can do anything about.

--Grant

If 2000AD became collectable while I were a lad trying to get the full set, I wouldnt have bothered - the very beauty of a 2000AD collection is that its relatively cheap to build.  The only people who would get an advantage out of 2000ADs price rising is someone sitting on many many copies of "valuable" progs - not the (normal) collectors (who wouldnt sell their only copy), not the potential collectors (who'd have to pay more) - Just the middle men and marketeers - no thanks

oooh yeah comix and collection and.......ssnorrrrrrrrrrreeeee , oh dear the words have gone all fuzzy & my brain switched off, try monosyllabic next time not the dissertation.

As with all the other Tarantino-based threads about how valuble Progs are and his rampant stockpiling, I find myself doing the Nescafe hand gesture at my monitor yet again.

And apart from anything else, how is anyone to know what will or won't become 'collectable' in the future.

How was anyone to know that Action Comics would be the birth of the modern comic? Or that that funny lookin guy in the blue and red crawling up walls in Amazing Fantisy #15 would evetually amount to anything or, closer to today, that some young upstart called Todd McFarlane would redifine an industry when he started working on same wall crawler.

I'm only plucking these examples out of the air, any number of books/artists/writers could fill the names.

The list of 'if I only knew that.....' is endless, as is the amount of crap you'd have to 'invest in' to come up with a winner.

Jeeses, I thought CRISIS was gonna be a sure thing!!! I now have signed issues of No.s 1-5 I can hardly give away!!!

Speculation is fine but I wouldn't advise anyone choosing comics as an investment.

My personal rule regarding collecting comics is this:-

BUY'EM IF YOU LIKE'EM... IF YOU DON'T, DON'T!!!

Which is why I have thousands of comics worth very little, sure I'd love to have a complete run of PREACHER (added to the fact I know Garth Ennis and could get him to sign them all, thus increasing their 'collectability') but I didn't buy it because it didn't like it, simple as that.

If you want to invest in something, buy a house.

Personally I couldn't give a flying fig what issue Senister/Dexter first appeared, they're still shit!

How about the variants of Progs 700, 800, 801 & 802 how much are they worth, you could go really mad and say how about the ones that had free truprint envelopes inside and if its not in there is it as collectable as one that still has?

Hate hoarders who argue about keeping them in good nick for prosperity, hoarding is hoarding and only ever done to make money.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

such a greedy, money orientated view. if you like it, buy it but dont pay over the cover price. 551 quid for a comic, come on. be better to wait for a grafic novel.
   ps, just read halo jones, well worth the wait, dudes

Read them, scan the decent stories onto your HDD archive and give them away.

'Ownership' of stuff like this is a chimera. Read, enjoy, move on.

As usual my thread has created some heated responses and I will leap to my own defence.

Some boarders have jumped to the conclusion that since I am buying many copies of 2000AD, that I am hyping the comic in order to increase the value of my own collection.

I am happy to see the value of my collection increase, as would most of you if you are honest. But I would like to make one thing clear. I have been collecting and reading comics for 30 years now and thought that I would never stop. What happened to the American comic industry really pissed me off and aside from the Uncanny X-Men, the only title I read now is 2000AD.

I am hyping 2000AD since I believe that it has the potential to create a whole other Universe, to rival Marvel and DC. I think most characters have the potential to have their own comic printed each month, with original stories and artists. No cross overs and no duplicate covers. It would be just like in the early days of comic collecting. Everyone chooses their favourite titles to purchase each month. 2000AD would be the flagship issue and launch new stories and characters and the comics should be American size. 2000AD has been apart of my life for 26 years and I will do all I can to help increase its profile. I even move all the copies of 2000AD and the Judge Dredd Megazine to a more visible position when I am in Smiths.

In response to the comments regarding why Rebellion should create a demand for back issues, why shouldn?t they sell back issues at Dreddcons, this can only help to increase the profile of 2000AD in general.

And one last point, I may be buying many back issues and aside from the spare 1 - 500 that I recently sold to Blackthrash, I have never actually sold any other 2000ADs. I also have all my Marvel and DC comics from when I was a kid and I am not selling them.

What I am trying to say is I am not buying and selling. I genuinely love the comic and would love to see it's true potential realized, just for the fact that I would like to see 2000AD at the top of the tree, looking down at Marvel and DC.

Sadly, this would take a big investment on behalf of Rebellion and they would then have to crack the American market. I think it would work and I would love to find a backer who would invest in the idea. This will probably never happen but I can dream.

Finally, for all of you who think investing in 2000AD is a dirty thing to do. That's what makes the world go round and motivates people. The more successful 2000AD is, the more money Rebellion makes and the better and more creative people it can employee. Then, instead of launching and loosing new talent, they might be able to retain writers and artists. If this happens then the quality of the current issues will increase and we will all be winners.

>In response to the comments regarding why Rebellion should create a demand for back issues, why shouldn?t they sell back issues at Dreddcons, this can only help to increase the profile of 2000AD in general

I don't usually go in for fisking posts, but I'll do it this once:

"I am happy to see the value of my collection increase, as would most of you if you are honest."

Not sure about that. I'd bet that most of the people who post here are unlikely to sell their collections unless forced to; they bought them to read and enjoy, not as an investment.

"In response to the comments regarding why Rebellion should create a demand for back issues, why shouldn?t they sell back issues at Dreddcons, this can only help to increase the profile of 2000AD in general."

Huh? Surely Dreddcon is *already* raising the profile of 2000AD? Selling new & old issues at *other* comic festivals might raise the mag's profile, but doing the same at Dreddcon is simply preaching to the converted.

"What I am trying to say is I am not buying and selling."

Well, you'll have to excuse me, because that's exactly the impression I got from your previous posts.

"Finally, for all of you who think investing in 2000AD is a dirty thing to do. That's what makes the world go round and motivates people. The more successful 2000AD is, the more money Rebellion makes and the better and more creative people it can employee."

Noble sentiment, but how on Earth do you connect buying and selling back issues - from which Rebellion get exactly nothing - to investing in 2000AD? ?551 for issue 1, and not a penny goes to Rebellion. No cash, no exposure and no benefit for Rebellion.

This is like sort of fucking pyramid sales scam, does anyone take this stuff on face value?

Rebellion have a million and one better things to do than fuck about promoting sales of back issues from which they earn FUCK ALL.  As you say, almost all issues are worth at the most a quid, so they can't even make a fortune reprinting them.

If all my 2000AD's were suddenly worthless tomorrow, I wouldn't give a damn.

Uh oh, im sensing bad vibes again....


C'mon people, if tarantino wants to sell/buy issues then thats his business. And if that was the case then i'd say good luck to him and i hope he gets a good price.

I agree that comics should be made to be read and read again, as opposed to being a collectors investment, but thats just my opinion.
And i have been wrong many times before!

All im trying to say is that we all have our own opinions and goals, and theres no need to abuse a fellow boarder just because we may not agree with them.



Unless its Keane.


Wul (full of festive cheer!)

I have to agree with paulvonscott and many of the other boarders here.  People on this board on the whole (except for a few exceptions) are collecting for their own pleasure.

I myself have a large pile of comics that are probably worth nothing, were never that popular in the first place, and have solely because I enjoy them and would not part with them even if they were worth money.

I can only belaive that shouting about the pile of back issues that one has and how much they are/could be worth can only be boasting or weak attempts to push prices up for own selfish purposes.

i do not think tarrantino has the intention of talking up his business.

here is a good place to discuss and ask for reasonable debate on the subject.
if he was out to drive up prices there are plenty of more suitable places to do so.
i collect for pleasure. firstly.
though i have openly said i will sell all at some stage. keeping a full set of 1-20 for my own pleasure.

i collect at the current prices only  progs 1-20. average cost about a fiver each i would say. cant spend them can i. so as my pile gets bigger its like a pile of five pound notes in a fixed deposit.some day i will sell. cash in my pile of unspendable money. and put it towards my lease on the coffee shop.

but tarrantino is differnt.he is a fan. who has the finacail resources to buy up and store.
some do it with stocks and shares.its a gamble, but nothing wrong with that.
if you wish to read back progs. rebellion have taken a very good step of graphic novels,.the thrill archives and so on.so we can enjoy the stories.

pyramid selling? or investment in a product you have an interest and knowledge of.
i go with the latter,
if his investment goes south.well thats life.
if he arrives at Dreddcon 15 in BMW with the number plate JD1
you can refuse should he offer to buy you a beer.

of course should he be driving his BMW convertable with numberplate JD1. i will happily be offering you chaps bitter chocolate fondue and mugs of mocha chinnios free at my chocoaholics cafe.
:~)
you enjoy your investment mate.
maybe some day you and i will be laughing maybe some day members of this board will be saying
TOLD YOU SO!

"Uh oh, im sensing bad vibes again...."

Not from me I should add.  The swearing is in there purely because I was drunk.

I came to the thread thinking that it might actually have something to say about the comics and those funny strip things that are inside them, and how  maybe the attitude or progress or even running of the comic was somehow comparable with Marvel at some point.

In fact it's just another attempt to boost the 2000AD back issue prices, and an incredibly blatant one, by someone with a vested interest.

As a thread, and a discussion just on the merits of collecting it's fine enough up until...

"Apart from prog 2, all the other issues, from 30 onwards, can currently be picked up for a few pounds, many are being sold unwittingly at comic conventions for 50p - ?1.00"

Well, I'd say that the truth is that these comics are actually beeing sold to people unwittingly for much more than they are worth.  ?551 for prog 1?  That person was an idiot with too much money.

Well, there are people who have probably bought them for a few quid (often traders, I know, I've heard them boasting about how they've fleeced some poor sod of a complete collection for practically pennies) and that's the thing, these are 'middle-man' prices, boosted artificially, if you make the effort you can get them for much less.  Traders certainly do.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if auction prices weren't boosted by traders themselves.  I mean, what will it cost them, ?20 or ?30, to raise the price of their progs by hundreds of pounds by bidding on their own comics?

Prices are certainly boosted on e-bay where traders buy rare progs going cheap, so that you have to pay a minimum for them.

I think it's a shame that the classifieds section isn't used more by fans to sell their progs direct to other fans without a middle-man.

One thing that I believe is true is that it's a mistake to think that 2000AD fans behave in the same way as American comic book collectors.  Out of all the people know who have old 2000AD's, very few care how much they are worth or even that their comics aren't in mint condition.  

In addition there is a lot of reprint stuff available relatively cheaply for 2000AD which isn't true of many American comics.  

I doubt very much that all but a tiny amount of readers actually care about having a variant annual for ?5, never mind ?50, and the first annual is NOT worth ?15-?20, a fiver at the most and you could probably get it for less (in perfect condition).

"The more successful 2000AD is, the more money Rebellion makes and the better and more creative people it can employee. Then, instead of launching and loosing new talent, they might be able to retain writers and artists. If this happens then the quality of the current issues will increase and we will all be winners."

Well, maybe, but that is in no way affected by back issues.  That situation might cause back issue prices to rise (oh, I see what you're getting at...) but then it might not make as much difference as you think.

"What I am trying to say is I am not buying and selling."

You are buying and hoarding comics to sell later, I can understand why you might want to do it, but to actually pretend you aren't is incredible.  You are hoovering up as many rare progs as you can so you can exploit people on this board at a later date.  Some chap who I talked to at a recent Mart asked me if I had a spare 1208, I said I didn't (though if I found one I'd let him know and he could pay what I paid for it), and it was getting more difficult than it should be because people like you are buying them for 50p and stockpiling them.  His comments are largely unprintable.

If you seperate out all your attempts to boost the prices of back progs and your investment, from you love of 2000AD, it might be possible to read your comments at face value, but currently they are as worthless as the insincere smile on a salesman.  It's not as if you turn up and say anything good about the comic that doesn't boost the profile of your comic bunker.

Heh, Tarantino you do seem to start threads that you know will bring a large number of angry responses especially from PVS :)

However, over the last 3 or 4 months you havent really posted anything else except those to do with comic prices.  In all honesty, I cant remember you posting any non-price related posts and this is part fo the problem.  You may have no desire to boost the price of old progs.  From what you have written, that seems unlikely, but its christmas and Im willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.  

So join in some of the other threads on the board, tell people what you got for xmas (you can lie if you want), join in on the boarders awards (when I get my arse in gear - sorry dave its coming:)), start a thread about the new savage series, the direction JD is going, you get the idea.

Id suggest that most people on the board arent that bothered about back issue prices and keep their collection as a labour of love.  In fact one boarder has recently given away prog 2 and prog 3 as a prize.  So try and join in, its not too bad here really......      

Yer "incoherent ramblings" Slips

Okay, following the last couple of comments I went back and re-read the previous posts....from the start....(took a little while).

I have no problem with people collecting back issues of a comic for whatever purpose they wish.  Somehow I don't see the old idea of multiple covers, multiple first issues, issue 0's getting of the ground in such a big way again either - espesciallly in this country where, as stront692 pointed out the sales system is very differant to what happens in America.

Re-reading your initial thread it appeard at first to be about promoting tooth to its maximum potential and almost turning it into an American clone (not a criticism of American comics in anyway).  Again, given the way the system here works I feel that would not work in this country, and again it could more than likely lead to the downfall of tooth with  its resources spread too wide.  How much of each individual title would have to be sold to maintain the series? Perhaps someone out there could tell us.

Also, what would happen to tooth?  If each character/title has its own series then what goes into tooth?  The also-rans?  Surely the same character could not run twice at the sme time in differant formats and still be coherant.  I am aware that this happens to a degree in America but then they would not work on differant formats (say one weekly and the other monthly, when they did with Action it didn't work).

As to the situation regarding the back issues, the point being of a comic leaping in value depends on the demand for that comic.  It cannot be guessed at (as you point out)and so I am sorry to say that I feel "what is the point?".  I cant justify buying up comics, new or used, for the sole purpose that one day they *might* become valuable.  That is okay if you have the time, money and energy to devote to it but then it does come back down to that money issue.

I have no wish to offend, and if , in the future, you do manage to make your fortune from these comics then I will be only too pleased to toast your good fortune.

Yeah, mad props to Blackthrashthere for not being nala nad hanging onto the prog and instead using it to do something interesting (or at least mildly diverting).

:: Also, mentioned above, the Winter Special from 1995 has the first ever appearance of Sinister Dexter and for some reason does not appear very often on ebay but when it does, it sells for about ?10. ::

Apart from when I tried to sell it and got nowhere. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I rarely bother trying to sell 2000AD-related stuff on eBay anymore. After all, if it takes four goes to sell Shocking Futures by Alan Moore, despite a low starting price and a sensible title and description (with photo), I think that speaks volumes.

tsk, fools! The real money is in cd display frame things!

Tarantino - Can I make a request? I'm not doubting  you're as big a fan as the next guy, and that you enjoy reading the prog. But I just get the impression that your buying/selling reduces the comic from an entertainment product into a marketable commodity. And I think that's a shmae.

Take the Dredd-Con message thread where you posted that you didn't enjoy the con. Well, fair enough. Not everyone enjoys the same thing. But you said there was nothing there. And there was. There were 20 or so creators. Did you get the chance to speak to any? Almost uniformally they were fun and interesting and a pleasure to talk to. And the boarders were there too. If you didn't fancy meeting a droid you could have tracked us down and had a chin wag and a pint. I'm a fat, ugly, boring, tosser personally but the rest of the guys and gals are fun people.

I think most people get so annoyed because they percieve you to be acting in a way that strikes them as odd. I'm a collector, I love hunting down progs and books and stuff but I get much more pleasure reading them, as do most people.

So here's my point, my request. Two requests. Firstly could you tell us what's your favourite story, or droid, or character. Tell us what you read recently that blew you away, or what got you hooked. Cause I don't recall you contributing to any thread like that. Not that you have to, but it'd help get a picture of you as a fan, not a collector.

Also, next year if you go to the con don't take any cash. Just come along, track us down and hang out. I think you'll have a much more fun time than you did this year...

Of course, you retain the right to tell me to go vuck myself. With a brick.

hi tarantino - im going to attempt to claify my point again, i agree with priv8eye and i think u are making too many comparisons to the american market

like i said in my first post, this is an easy mistake to make as 2000AD is as u say up to prog 1371 - BUT

2000AD is a weekly comic, ACTION and DETECTIVE are monthly it has taken them over 50 years and they have been weekly or fortnightly for only a year collectively of this whole time, they have a much greater heritage and a much bigger fanbase

the americans have tried to do brit style weeklies and ACTION itself went multi story for a while, they could not sustain it as costs were too high and the creators could not turn around the stories fast enough

2000AD is not as old as the american superhero comics but has a much stronger link with its fans due to being weekly, maybe when it is 50 years old collectors may well start collecting only ROGUE TROOPER etc but at the moment they want the whole comic, not just one character

as priv8eye states the characters are not published indidvidually outside of the comic, so they have no individual identity outside of the quality/EAGLE reprints and they are not published in order - they did not do well bcos of the high amount of filler material in them which makes them look like a poor comic

REBELLION has looked in depth at making 2000AD monthly and joining the meg/tooth together, your comments may only encourage them to do this, thus blighting the item that u love so much

the back issues will only increase if 2000Ad continues to be published, REBELLION only has a responsibility to keep all the material available to fans thru reprints etc and already there is a definite turn away from this with some stories i feel being produced for the american market and specifically for collection into graphic novel format

(DEAD MEN WALKING, a lot of the stories in the recent autumn offensive, was anybody else surprised at how quickly that strange dan abnett story that was about commandos in another dimension was collected, RAIN DOGS i think but cant remember the name)

do i have to put my pitch fork away? tsk.

but he started his post "Hi guys" thats insight to riot as far as I'm concerned.


Un-Guyish Bou.

by the way i meant glimmer rats not raind sogs (duh) and psynnamon shoulkd in brackets at bottom too?

Heh. He's a writing machine, that Abnett.

Shocking Futures by Alan Moore - I'll have that if it's still available.

Email me, please.

Wow! I know I can inspire heated debate but I?m starting to feel like Salmon Rushdie, I may go into hiding until the Fat One is lifted, co?s he?s starting to feel heavy and I?m finding it hard to breath!

OK, I will try to defend myself one more time, although if anyone else takes another shot, I may go down.

I initially started buying duplicate issues of prog 2, because the first time I purchased one it was such a thrill, as I am a huge Dredd fan. I then bought another one to recreate that buzz and it spiralled from there. I now own more than I probably should but I never bought them in the first place in order to sell them on and I still do not plan to sell them on. I am trying myself to understand why I own so many and I believe the reason is as follows. If a dedicated Superman fan got hold of Action Comics number 1 it would be a fantastic thrill, as there are very few in existence. I consider myself a dedicated Judge Dredd fan and although owning prog 2 was a thrill, it was somehow diminished by knowing that there were many copies still out there. To counter this I started buying duplicate issues and I now believe that I have a collection which is not matched by any other Tooth fan. I think this equals the feeling that a Superman Fan would have in owning issue one of Action Comics. I have gone to a lot of trouble to obtain copies of prog 2 and have travelled up and down the country in pursuit of my goal. I will admit, I am pleased when they increase in value but still do not plan on selling them and I probably never will (I say probably because everyone has their price).

My previous threads have mainly been about promoting Tooth. I have done this by hyping back issues because I believed that if there was a thriving market in back issues, this would also create an interest in the current progs amongst collectors and investors, who do also have an interest in reading comics. I believe that this is also a way of getting in through the back door in America. As with music, if we can crack the American market then Tooth would be sitting pretty. Despite what various boarders have said, I still believe the above to be true, or at least, as part of a strategy.

Without being critical, I don?t see anyone else on the board trying to promote 2000AD, although I may be wrong, as I don?t read all the threads. To be honest, and I have avoided saying this but I am not too happy with the current story lines, characters and art in 2000AD and do not believe that Rebellion are doing a good job at the moment. I would hate this to be the beginning of the end. If they do not have the success with the Judge Dredd game as that hope to, then they might just drop the comic like a bad apple, but I think Rebellion have their own agenda and only time will tell.

I would just like to finish by saying thanks to Devons Daddy for being my only ally in the last thread, it was nice to have a voice of support amongst all that hostility. Thank you DD.

Also, my collection does not just consist of prog 2?s. I also probably have the biggest collection of Judge Dredd and 2000AD paraphernalia in the world. I do have a life outside of 2000AD but this is my hobby and I get great pleasure from it.

Now, as requested in my last thread, I will create another thread, unrelated to promoting back issues. I will talk about Tooth and my likes and dislikes, I may even tell you a little bit about myself and I promise never to post another thread related to hyping back issues, although the first appearance of Lobster Ransom might be worth getting hold of.......just kidding.

Thank you for listening and come on PaulVonScott, lift that Fat One, he?s heavy and he ain?t my brother!

"Thank you for listening and come on PaulVonScott, lift that Fat One, he's heavy and he ain't my brother!"

Er, what are you trying to say, I'm fat?  Okay (?)

Look, what thrill can you get from buying multiple copies of prog 1208 for ?15?  I have to say that basically I don't believe you, I don't believe you are doing anything to promote 2000AD (I think you have the whole back progs/success of 2000AD formula entirely the wrong way round for a start), and that you are just promoting the value of your own back progs.  Have I really got this wrong?  You've said nothing to convince me otherwise.

2000AD, is arguably in it's best state since the late eighties, the Megazine is the best it has ever been.  In what way aren't Rebellion doing a good job compared to IPC or Egmont Fleetway?

How 2000AD could crack America, or if America could ever warm to 2000AD would make an interesting thread, as long as it didn't revolve around back progs somehow.

?If a dedicated Superman fan got hold of Action Comics number 1 it would be a fantastic thrill, as there are very few in existence.?

The difference being that there are 10?s of Thousands of Prog 2 out there?

?I consider myself a dedicated Judge Dredd fan and although owning prog 2 was a thrill, it was somehow diminished by knowing that there were many copies still out there.  To counter this I started buying duplicate issues and I now believe that I have a collection which is not matched by any other Tooth fan.?

Which you agree with ? so your intention is to buy so many prog 2s that they become as rare as Action 1? Is that really an achievable goal?  2000AD back progs interest will only go up if more people want to buy the back progs, which means Rebellions only concern should be to improve the quality of the comic (which barring the odd hiccup, they have done a fairly admirable job at IMO). Your attempts at creating a shortage are unlikely to succeed on your own? which is what these messages are about ? if not for financial gain, then for some psychological satisfaction in owning something that?s difficult for others to get?  

Hell knows, as anyone who knows me would attest, I understand the thrill of the collecting bug, but why not turn your energys onto other areas of 2000AD collecting ? Wouldn?t it be more of a thrill to find the gronk knitting pattern or a MACH 1 T shirt  or the October issue of Big K, than the 89th Prog 2?  Just how does having loads of the same thing make a collection better? Bigger, I?ll grant you.. J

Probably the favourite item in my collection is the IPC internal news magazine that commemorated a Royal Visit to Kings Reach Tower and had a feature on Prince Phillips visit to the nerve centre!  I got this from a carboot for 50p.  It more than recreated the thrill of getting Prog 2 (which TBH, you can get at any decent comics fair or back issues shop half the time anyway ? its really not that difficult).  

?My previous threads have mainly been about promoting Tooth. I have done this by hyping back issues because I believed that if there was a thriving market in back issues, this would also create an interest in the current progs?.

Well there is a thriving market in back progs ? it thrives because prices are so low.  The level of cost of progs really does nothing to make the market thrive.  

And why would increasing the cost of ?key? issues do anything but make money for dealers?  Why is making 1208 an expensive item going to encourage people to keep up their collections, or starting to collect?  I can think of no greater disincentive to people trying to get a full set than being faced with a gap that is so costly to fill, for a relatively recent and not exactly mind blowing prog.  I really can?t follow the logic.




?Without being critical, I don?t see anyone else on the board trying to promote 2000AD, although I may be wrong, as I don?t read all the threads.?

Well, without being critical, that?s a load of rubbish ? people here are doing loads more than your suggestion to promote 2000AD, if only by enthusing about the comic in this very forum (but many are doing a lot more than that).  

The American market is not really a great example of  a thriving comics market IMO.  Its tiny ? 2000AD probably sells more per head of the population of the UK than US comics do in a country with a population many times the size.  Look at Europe, and comics sell by the bucket load there ? that?s the model we should be trying to emulate ? a mass market rather than the cult collectors market of the US.

ACTION 1 is fifty years old, i think u are making an incorrect analogy like i say

compare an EAGLE no 1 to ACTION NO1 but not 2000AD and therein lies my point, EAGLE is not running anymore so the back issue have stagnated, u need REBELLION to keep the comic alive

they are actually a very small company, i know they have their own agenda as i have followed since the days of the ATARI JAGUAR AVP release, they did exactly the same mistakes then as they did on DREDD vs DEATH by releasing a rushed game and then announcing that preview had been sent out to review by accident

they are relying on a minimum number of fans that are not game players buying the game and enjoying it (as they dont know any different), just taking advantage of cross merchandising by sellng licenses to fans as well

they need all their resources to keep the comic afloat, its never actually quantified but producing an american comic with a hit artist is a multi million ??? operation now, the current 2000AD crop of talent will eventually be poached and they have to create new or the comic will die

i think the guys that own REBELLION really want to make movies, i think thas where their heart is, i dont think the JD will be brill when it comes but for the budget they are doing the games on now (if im right) they will have filmed some of the stuff and will be getting the programmers experienced enough so that they dont have to use ILM (mr lucas) as they cost a lot of money

if REBELLION are not successful, they can always make another movie and sell 2000AD on but if the comic does not survive then your investment will fall just as the EAGLEs have done without new blood (although they are currently enjoying a revival thanks to the animated tv series)

if 2000AD turns in to MARVEL thn we are all in trouble and that will also be bad for u (as any back issue or story that rises they will reprint it simply bcos it has risen in value, when they start creating rare issues we are all in trouble as the comic is then just a cash cow)

they originally said that the comic would tapped in to the computer game company as a loss each, but when it was making a profit they would start to raise the price (which they have done recently)

i think the autumn offensive where they sold all the subscribers (a captive audience) helped that but i dont think they will get away with it again

finally i think all this would be cleared up if stopped referring to yourself as a 'collector' and at least used the term 'collector dealer' as many americans are proud to use this term - i would consider it loosely myself in that my comic collecting is self supporting

but i dont 'horde issues' or specifically buy multiple copies and u cant be buying them infinitely without at least an idea of selling them on eventually

Without being critical, I don't see anyone else on the board trying to promote 2000AD, although I may be wrong, as I don't read all the thread

Yawn.  So you buy back issues.  I subscribe, whats the difference?  This is my hobby.  I make no money from it, in fact I lose money (now theres a concept for you) I promote it amongst my freinds and family, thats it.  Like many people, I have a wife, children, a house and a number of other interests that I devote time to.  I dont have the time to devote to promoting 2000ad, other than the time I spend on the board and the discussions I have with my freinds and the time I spend at comic conventions.  

Now are you saying because I dont have multiple copies of every back issue, that Im not promoting 2000ad.  thought not?  And I suppose that means your going to give yours away as a promotional tool?  Thought not.  

Dont take this personally, coz Im not sure exactly what you are getting at.......  Lets discuss how we the fans can promote 2000ad?  Yes?

Yer Slips

ya see tarantino, you gotta realise, you aint in charge of rebellion, someone else, and er, you gotta live with that

"And I suppose that means your going to give yours away as a promotional tool? Thought not."

Well I give mine away - I leave them on the tube after I've read them & scanned the decent stories (ie none from the 2 progs before Prog2004!;)

I'd personally say thats an excellent promotional activity - what the Yanks call viral marketing - more people should release their progs onto an unsuspecting public !!

How hoarding back progs at crazy prices helps 'promote' 2000Ad God alone knows. Give them to a non-scrot to read - you may just get another convert that way.

I keep trying to get my Girlfriends daughter to read tooth, but im afraid she is a non-scrot and keeps dissing it!


Tsk, youth of today, etc...
(She has read some of Preacher, though, so i may be able to convert her if i keep trying!)

Well I give mine away - I leave them on the tube after I've read them & scanned the decent stories (ie none from the 2 progs before Prog2004!;)

Well yes since my last thread with mr T, I gave my 9 months or so progs to my local charity shop, we dont have a tube here on the south coast.  Hopefully they get some money, some kid or whoever gets the prog, I have no clutter which keeps mrs slips happy, eh?

Yer Slips
 

Without being critical, I don?t see anyone else on the board trying to promote 2000AD



The above photo was seen by around 100,000 newspaper readers in the North Yorkshire area.

The defence rests ....

lms that could also be bcos most people would try to promote 2000AD away from the site

(like above)

anyone promoting 2000Ad on the site is... preaching to the converted

or selling their wares

Well i did manage to get several of my friends to read tooth and it's suceeded...

Me on the other hand i have no problems getting hold of back issues....now James robinsons Star Man however...

I`ve come to this late but here goes...
  I think 2000 Ad already has its` own universe. I would like to see it go back to the old large sizes, not that there`s much hope of that.
  Like DD said above, there`s nothing wrong with trying to make money out of something you like - but it doesn`t have much to do with promoting it.
  Like Paul von Scott, I wouldn`t care too much if my progs went to zero in value tomorrow (I would, however be happy if they skyrocketed).
  I used to like Marvel because they had good stories and art. WHen I tried to go back to them in the 90s the stuff I saw was all awful, whilst 2000 AD was cool
  A good movie would promote the thing, as would more reprints and giveaways
 I read a British magazine which gives subscribers the opportunity of sending 2 free copies to friends with each issue. If 2000 AD did that, a lot of people who stood a good chance of subscribing would subscribe. Of course it would cost a fortune

yours resolving to complete his collection,

Floyd

I am going to be a real stupid newbie here. What do you mean by tooth? I've seen it several times. Do you mean 2000ad in shorthand?

madgirl

took me a while to get used to people sayingit too, but yup they mean 2000ad

>I also probably have the biggest collection of Judge Dredd and 2000AD paraphernalia in the world!!

What do you have then? The pinball machine like Logans? I love all the bits and bobs so would be interested to know what you have (Getting the gronk pattern would be like finding the holy grail)
How many pieces of orginal artwork do you have? (and why aren't they listed on the site lol join us join us!). As you obviously want 2000ad things that rise in value then surely forget about the progs and go for the artwork! Much more money in that I'm sure, especially if you have been buying from many years ago and got some of the earlier artists.
As long as they are not printer copies or fakes or merely pasted on pages I would assume that theres loads more money in that side of things. And totally unique things that you have the only copy of. Choose your own price then surely? (Why not, look at the mad prices for some pieces).

My goal this year is to have over 100 pieces, so thats 17 more this year to get.

i just love comics really, i have always been into them and i wuite like superheroes too

my collection is out of control and has become an obsession i am afraid

i would recommend taking a look at marvel again now and also any decent 80s to 90s DC when they were still fighting for market share with marvel quite fiercely (now that they own the major distributor they dont bother)

its quite strange really but since MARVEL went bankrupt all the people that used to be cashing in there are now working for dc and MARVEL now puts creator names on covers and hypes them up until they are established whereas DC used to fulfill that role, i would give them a try again as their output is quite decent (they cant affore to put out any filler material is how they have put it themselves, they need titles that sell theirself)

if 2000AD is the new marvel then they will go bnkrupt flooding the market with pap, then change hands and resume doing what the fans wanted them to - rather than annoying fanbase to sell copies

i doubt that this will happen

Comix rule, tooth rules, but I think i'd rather have a purple lightsaber.

Darth Tanky

OK Tarantino - I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt.

If you're not trying to drive prices up by hoarding Prog 2's, and you're not after a vast profit, I'll give you a tenner for a prog 2.

Doesn't have to have the stickers on. Doesn't have to be mint. Just a readable copy of Prog 2 and the cash is yours.

I'm never going to spend daft amounts of cash on it, and let's face it, I can always order a Digital Archive and read it that way.

Whaddaya say?

I'd sell you my right arm before I parted with a prog 2. Well, ok, maybe a toe but I'd want more than a tenner. Besides, I don't know what I would be proving if I sold you a prog 2 for a tenner but nice try, I like your cheek.

how long did you think about till you actauly posted your response then tarantino?

i bought one for a tenner once,. about ten years back to be honest though.in plymouth in purple haze.
could well have been longer come to think of it.

so what do you sell them for then,im not looking to buy,just wondering whats your price?

Why would you want more than a tenner? I think that's a very reasonable price. I can get a digital archive that contains progs 1-10 for ?25. I make that ?2.50 per prog. The reprinted stuff won't have tatty edges either...

What paraphernalia do you have then Tarantino?
Just a few examples,maybe you've got something rare we don't have like The Watcher mentioned.

surely a digital archive is a breach of copyright though (at the very least a grey area) and this should not be promoted on the site, even a rebellion graphic novel reprinting said stories costs around ?18

the second issue does have a value and if bought it for a tenner, how long would it be before u resold it, it would simply rise in value

most fans would rather buy from another fan rather than a dealer, as the other fan is more likely to buy from them in the future and wont use the money earned to rip another comic fan off by telling them conditions bad or 'well, i dont care how much they are worth id never pay more than this for it' - jaded stuff like that

this is the excuse used by dealers who then resell it and make even more money

the market has a natural cycle, u should just let run its course (but it hasnt peaked yet and will not for a while)

surely a digital archive is a breach of copyright though (at the very least a grey area) and this should not be promoted on the site, even a rebellion graphic novel reprinting said stories costs around ?18


Unless of course the archive is made by rebellion :), I think they are sold in the shop section...

Yer Slips

ah right i understand,

The concept of collecting something for the  sake of having all of it is really a bit pointless, 2000AD fans who do have full collections either read from prog 1 to now or were missing a few issues or simply realised that most progs are a damn good read.

Personally if I ever do get old progs (the ratio must be 40 odd progs bought new to a back issue an' I started reading late 01)it's because there's a specific story in them that I wanted to read hence I like to get back issues with the early Dante or sin/dex stuff so issues 1000-1250 whatever. These can be hard to find and not becuase they're sought after or collectable but because the distribution then was very small due to market size.

Why would anyone wanna make a finally lowly growing market shrink further by claiming, for example, that those progs are very rare?

Finnigan Sinister

Of course what he really needs to do to make this rarer and worth more is to destroy the copies he does have, thus reducing the number out there ;)

I was pondering in a kinda morbid way yesterday about what would happen to my progs if I were to die (in the near future, ie truck/roadcrossing incident rather then at 83 in bed)
Figured I should get a will with a clause for them.

Thought the best idea would be to have them shipped to Wake to sell/auction for as much as possible & then put all the profits behind the bar at the next DreddCon.

With the exception of that nice oddboy, the rest of you....


GET OUT MORE!
your time is limited, you need to aquire lots of experience involving drink, drugs, sex, rock and roll or at least some camping to bore the next generation with, yes, keep the old comic in a box but don't build your life round it!! unless your an artist or writer, if you are Produce don't Consume

Here endeth the first lesson, oh and Merry Crimbo to you all


Huffsta    

im never here

this is an automated response (no, really - i work 27 hours a day but i never sleep, i would probably win that c4 thing no problem)

'heh heh'