Messages

You went around telling all non readers for years, that Blair would be the first Labour prime minister since the 70's, because Millar/Morrison said it in Maniac 5 

You replace a lot of swear words with 2000ad replacements.  My favourite is "Funt", working in a professional position in the south of england shouting "You bunch of Funts!" in a Glaswegian accent works really well...

Regarding Glasgow – We have spent most of the time hating each other so don't take it personally Mrs Slips, theres an old joke that on the flights here they ask you to set your watch back 50 years.

I don't know anyone here who would say they hate the English, English football pundits on the other hand are a bunch of sneering cunts!

I think the whole anti English/Irish/Scots/Welsh thing is so last gen, We have a whole host of Eastern Europeans to blame for all our ills now. That's progress.

Im from Greenock/Largs.  Believe you me we can get a whole load more backward than 50 years Satanist!  The only place worse is Paisley (old football predjudices showing though)

Possibly but they are more linked with Scotland..... We have things in common a shared heritage all of us on these isles, of course there are things that we share.  But there are also things which come from one side or the other, doesnt make them better.   

Maybe Im making this point badly, I dont know.  The only thing I find is that I cant seem to seperate Englishness from Britishness, and Ive lived here for over 15 years.   Im just looking for that Eureka moment, the one that says there it is.  Though Ill concede that Shakespeare is quintessentially English, he was before the union was formed though!   

There might not be any more, that may be my own niavity.

Because they are international sports, the English "may" have invented them.  But for example in football it was the scots in the industrial heartlands of the north who updated the game into its modern incarnation at the turn of the 20th century.  Im not saying they arent important at all, I was getting at outside sports were is the English identity, what makes being English unique.  What makes it different from Empire and Britishness? 

As for your other stuff a lot of these are interlinked with Empire and thus Britishness.  Some of the most important Engineers were Scots, they just worked in England (thats what I do).  Curry houses are another example of Empire and of Britishness.   Are there no Curry Houses in Scotland or Wales or Ireland? 

Im only asking the questions, questions I fire at my English friends on occassion?   There may be a reassesment of Englishness going on that will be refined into something unique.  As someone else has said this could be that the other nations felt inferior to the English or felt they were the older brother who always put them down.  So developed something to make them different, Im not sure.  I just have never worked out what being english is, well nothing that sets it apart from Scotland for example.


 

No, you haven't insulted me, I just think you're funny!  But, heh, you could try insulting me again.  Better luck next time.  Best wishes.  Mike

Let us know when you work out what Roger called you.

Slips: I think one of the side-effects in Scotland of the move towards independence is people are thinking a little more clearly about our relationship with other countries. Maybe I have a sheltered life, but I honestly can't remember the last time I heard anyone make a derogatory comment towards someone because they were English.

I'm pretty open-minded on the whole issue. I'm following the debate with interest.

- Trout

My own feelings on that are similar. 
But the experience was my wifes.  She was a fairly senior person at a large national company and she was still asked about schooling, religion and football (it was Glasgow and was nigh on 15 years ago).  I think the comment that stuck in her mind was the "English coming here taking our jobs".  She asked me if we were the same country.  Ive no doubt that Scotland has moved on, within my own family the following of the Labour party has been dropped and they have nearly all moved to SNP (not my vote but it seems to be generally the case), so theres hope of sorts. 

I personally would prefer a looser union, much like the EU with a decentralisation of powers into the member countries (much like Devolution) at the same power levels eg tax raising powers, etc.  But maybe have control of things like Defence, Enviroment, Agriculture, Energy Centralised.... that is almost a federal state I think?

Nice post, Slips, agreed with most of it but not the English losing their identity bit.  I think English identity is growing.  I'm old enough, (just) to remember the '66 World Cup Final, the (English) crowd were waving Union flags; go to an England game now and they're nearly all waving St. George's flags.

As a child, I can't remember any celebrations marking St. George's Day, but on the 23rd April just gone, I saw English flags flying and even went to a St. George's Day parade.  Unheard of in my youth.  I accept, on the whole, that we're not a nation "to beat our chests".  But I think the English are very at home with their identity, I think that's one of the reasons we're so welcoming to outsiders.

Yes, I know we have our morons but so does everybody else.  I'm talking about the English as a whole, not the fringe nutters.

We are kind of on the same page but the point I make is what is Englishness or being English?  Its not a critism, its just my observation.  Other than football and rugby matches how exactly does it manifest itself.  Scotland has tartans and clans, Wales has singing and that industrial belt (miners and the like), Northern Ireland has its two fractions (which are at almost opposite ends of the scale).  But what does England have thats unique from Britishness?  As far as I can see it doesnt and there seems to be a confusion over what being English actually is, its a problem that neither the Scots the Welsh or the Irish dont seem to have.   

Id add in that actually, I do see more St Georges flags and things like that its probably increased over the last 5 years.  Maybe the English are beginning to define themselves as seperate to British.

[Hate]

Roger, tr;dr?  If that's an insult, it's wasted on me, mate, 'cos I haven't got a clue what it means.  Could you please insult me in plain English!

I'll have a go, if you like.

Contrary to popular belief, Scottish people don't tend to have a problem with the English, despite notable exceptions such as Jimmy Hill. We do, however, dislike obnoxious people.

Best wishes

- Trout

Some of us are even married to you, some of us even live in your country........

Interestingly, the perception amongst the English is that we dont like them.  For that I actually agree with Mr MacNeil, there is a perception down here that the Scots Hate the English and that is fuelled by media rhetoric.  Not by the actual English, though there is a feeling that they pay for the rest of the UK or at least pay for anywhere not in the South East, which is were the lovely media bubble resides. 

My wife felt when we lived in Scotland for a year, that the constant, "you English" nonsense and the constant "so what School did you actually go to" really just put her off from ever living in Scotland.  Though this may be due to west coast influences rather than Scots ones.  I think this contradicts what Ive said.  But thats her experience not mine. 

Being a Scot who really never wants to go back and live in Scotland, and an outsider in my own country and in England.  My take on indepence is this,
Since the Blair/Brown fudged independence and went with the Scottish Parliament, Independence is actually pretty much unavoidable.  I feel it was used to make sure that the Scots stayed within the Union, keeping the MP's in the Uk Parliament keeping labour "in power" and making sure the vested interests stayed.  I think thats probably back fired and allowed the question "As we are making all theses decisions, we can make them all".   I also feel that the powers that be are pretty much scared of that whole scenario. 

I think there has actually been a loss of Englishness amongst the English, they are actually mostly confused as what to be English actually is.  Is it the stiff upper lip thing?  Does it mean the Empire?  Does it mean the thuggish football supporters and the right wing of the EDL or BNP?  Does it mean Morris Dancers or something else?  Personally I think they get Britishness confused with Englishness and the two are synonomous with each other.  The English need their own parliament even if the Union were to stay that would mean having a much smaller UK establishment which would control things like Defence or Enviroment or similar universal functions.  This of course wont happen and thus the break up of the union is pretty much a foregone conclusion, if not now within 30 years. 

As a final point on this, Im Scottish but I dont want a vote on this (ive lived in England for close to 20 years), the people who currently live in Scotland should vote and those over 18 only (anything else would be seen as a fudge)

Just my own thoughts! 

Use of Weapons would have been my candidate to replace Stainless Steel Rat if Carlos fancied a change of material to adapt. Given Ezquerra's aptitude for grand guignol, I'd love to have seen his version of that piece of furniture.

That's quite a thought: it'd give the story a weird pulp feel, that's for sure.

I think my favourite of his sci-fi is another of his non-Culture novels, Against a Dark Background.

I love that book.  I think that often Banks tries to squeeze in to many shocks so you almost expect a twist.  For me Complicity is probably his best (and straightest) book.   

For his Sci Fi writing I think Use of Weapons is probably the best Culture book, as Trout said earlier he really has created something in the Sci Fi field beyond his ability to shock in his "contemporary" books. 

Morning View Incubus...

The Devotion of Suspect X, I mentioned it previously on this thread, turned into a little gem.  More a police procedural than a gripping thriller, as we knew exactly who the killer was at the start.  The genius of the book lay in its ability to pull the carpet out from under the feet of the reader with twists and turns, especially towards the end.  Well worth the read and it is pretty short.  Is all Japanese fiction like this?       

I just started this the other day. I'm not sure if it's my sort of thing, but I'll stick with it. Thanks for mentioning it!

Its exceptionally slow at the start and Im not sure if the author does characters as such.  Compared with the tome like Game of Thrones where characters get a real chance to breath and grow, this is a claustrophobic tightly plotted book, but its really worth sticking with to the end.  The last couple of paragraphs are very clever and rather suprising.   

In retrospect it might actually be better as a film or TV show.  With Characters more recognisable and stand out...
(I think there is a film)

Exceptionally slow? Oh yes. I was 80% of the way through it (Kindle gives the percentage) before it sped up. It took me weeks to read the first 80%, and less than two hours to read the rest.

What a cracking ending, though.

- Trout

I think that the ending more than makes up for the plodding procedural it is.  I probably read it quicker than you.  Its chapters fitted rather well on a train journey, so I go through it a lot quicker. 

Ive just finished She's Never Coming Back by Hans Koppel, another Nordic Thriller which reads like an exploitation film.  Theres some clever stuff in it, like the disection of the mind of the kidnapper and the Kidnapped but a lot of gratious sex as well.  Trying for the thirds time to read Priestess of the White but its not very good and slow.  Actually its shit   

I may need to continue my great Dune reread next week! 

Game of Thrones, which Ive just finished.  It also has some parrallels with Dune, which I read earlier in the year.  Inspite of the skill of the author, the character driven plot, some great characters and lack of any real action being huge pluses, I just couldnt help feel a little let down at the end. 

It just seems like one long prologue to another book.  Like its all a big setup. 

Im now reading another Nordic thriller before venturing into more of Game of Thrones. 

yer Slips

The Devotion of Suspect X, I mentioned it previously on this thread, turned into a little gem.  More a police procedural than a gripping thriller, as we knew exactly who the killer was at the start.  The genius of the book lay in its ability to pull the carpet out from under the feet of the reader with twists and turns, especially towards the end.  Well worth the read and it is pretty short.  Is all Japanese fiction like this?       

I just started this the other day. I'm not sure if it's my sort of thing, but I'll stick with it. Thanks for mentioning it!

Its exceptionally slow at the start and Im not sure if the author does characters as such.  Compared with the tome like Game of Thrones where characters get a real chance to breath and grow, this is a claustrophobic tightly plotted book, but its really worth sticking with to the end.  The last couple of paragraphs are very clever and rather suprising.   

In retrospect it might actually be better as a film or TV show.  With Characters more recognisable and stand out...
(I think there is a film)   

Interesting little one this

Probably better to compare and contrast me with my father.
I had a better education, went to university done my science degree.  He went to school and failed his 11+ by 1 point, didnt get into Grammar school, so never did a degree.  I like him was a late starter at school, and didnt really come into my own until 14 or 15.  He was the top of his school when he left and did an apprenticeship at the council, becoming an enviromental health officer. 

In the 80's he and my mother should have been relatively well off (especially living on the west coast of scotland), and bought their house but he squandered money on drink, horses and such like.  He was probably a very unhappy man all in all.  He was with my mother for something like 30 years before he passed away.  In fact now, with my fathers pay off and pension rights, my mother has more disposable income than most people I know.  Rather ironically considering we didnt have a penny when I was growing up due to my old man's addictions.  My mother was a ward sister and has her own pension too on top of my fathers.   

Currently Im in a relationship of 20 years. I own 1 house and an appartment by the sea.  But I do scrimp and save a lot we dont really have much disposable income.  Living on the south coast means I pay almost london Prices but without the income really.  Though to be honest as a computer engineer I do earn over average wage, so probably my money stretches further than most.   My wife runs her own company, but I mostly subsidise that due to the economic down turn supplementing her wages as well.  Strangely though I feel I have a lot less time for my children than my parents did with me.  They are teenagers (my daughter is 20 this year) so they will probably want less to do with me as time goes on.

So in a nutshell Im probably worse off financially than my parents and worse off free time wise.  But I probably have a better standard of life than they did, I hope my children had a better standard of life than I did.     

Bringing the topic back...
70's/80's film in which an astronaut ends up in a parrallel universe where everything is written backwards or was it looked through a mirror.  He thinks he escapes at the end and until he signs his signature incorrectly when he lands the second time.   

Game of Thrones...  about 50 pages or so in and its OK but not much is happening except a lot of character introductions and there seems to be a lot of them.  Im a Joe Abercrombie fan and a friend said they were similar in a brutal low fantasy type way.   So I decided to see what the fuss was about. 

The Devotion of Suspect X, I mentioned it previously on this thread, turned into a little gem.  More a police procedural than a gripping thriller, as we knew exactly who the killer was at the start.  The genius of the book lay in its ability to pull the carpet out from under the feet of the reader with twists and turns, especially towards the end.  Well worth the read and it is pretty short.  Is all Japanese fiction like this?