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Iraq was safer and much wealthier before any American intervention. It was Americans, their support for Saddam, and later their war and sanctions on him that made Iraq such a terrible place to live. It then shouldn't come as a surprise that Iraqis had grown sick of their way of life. So much so that they sat back and watched America "save" them from its own doing.

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-life-in-iraq-was-like-under-saddam-hussein-2014-7?IR=T

There's a lot of similar stuff about. It's interesting to see how regressive the places we've liberated become.

[Out there]

I got a mobile game called Out there after a couple of years of it sitting on my slush pile.

It is really rather good. Very weird SF with beautiful artwork and a haunting atmosphere and storyline. Plus some laughs and good gameplay loops. There's a real sense of urgency when you're nearly out of oxygen and fuel, and the last two star jumps have left you with nothing.

Bit hypocritical and lets be honest, meaningless. Leave was nothing but years of negativity.

I thought the Chopper thread was great but this... wow. My number 1 keeps swapping around and around.

We went through two world wars, we are GREAT Britain!!!

I think we should stop now I've had my chance to be childish and quote my mates single line of logic though.

Well my wife has been binging the Gilmore Girls on her week off sick from work... soo..

And great observations about the ludicrousness of Lorelei's job. I forget she actually works 90% of the time as she is mostly around her rich parent's house, ferrying Rory around or sitting in a diner (where Luke is always, always working).

Read the sequel?

Nah I have to admit the thought didn't appeal

As for the trade stuff, if you really believe that the government haven't sent their feelers out for when Brexit is triggered, so that the negotiations can begin smoothly, well that's obviously your thinking. That's partly what our embassies do all the time all over the world. The only time it hits the news is when someone like Boris rugby tackles a small child on a trade mission.

My colleague's brother is the UK diplomat for a rather section of central & eastern Europe. I met him last week. His word on Brexit is "No one's got a damned clue". If you really believe that 'sending the feelers out' amounts to a damn thing, well that's obviously your thinking. The naivety of Leave is that other countries have some kind of obligation to give Britain a better deal, which clearly...they don't.

A bit like when the UK send specialist teams abroad to help, if it's required. That's just my take on that.[/color]

Pretty sure we haven't done that with flooding in France, Germany, etc... like in so many natural disasters (see Canada fires earlier this year) by the time you get 'boots on the ground' it's all over and in any case, the first-world country should really be able to handle it by itself. Certainly the resources are there and adding more doesn't solve the lack of will to get them deployed correctly.

In short if the offer had been made, it would have been refused - and it may well have been made for all we know.

I think everyone was pretty nice about their disapproval other than James. I think some of us are being far too nice about what was a pretty horrible series of things to say because, on this forum, those nasty things were only said by one person, and now those nice people feel bad for being part of the crowd. Sometimes it's the 'little guy' who needs to say sorry.

In an ideal world this would have been a moment for self-reflection and "Alreet ya got me ya bastiches, I take it back!"

I am a very positive person - I was very positive about the EU and the benefits it has brought to not just my life but millions of others.

That New Thinking has been around for a while. Look how well it sorted out the trains! Certainly put paid to high wages and fat pensions and cut out managers...

When the hell has 'Talking down' ever amounted to anything other than injuring the pride of the overly sensitive.

And plenty are already fuming at the minor issues experienced so far. Local comic shop has to raise its prices because pound has dropped 15c against the dollar. Local brexiteer is very annoyed he has to pay more now.

Spinning faster than the Earth's orbit there.

This isn't strictly political but in relation to some recent drama - Groups of nice people will always come off worse in any interaction with a minority of nastiness. When the nice people stand together and ever-so-gently stand against nastiness, they'll feel bad because they ganged up on someone.

It occurred to me that in more complicated ways this is one of the many reasons why politics is such a pain. Civility and kindness protect those who abuse it most.

Someone has been hiding their light under a bushel!

Just watched the latest trailer. Imperials getting smashed left right and center. Come on give us some realism here. Enough of the Imperial bashing I want to see rebels getting offed in their droves whilst taking on the impossible.

Just tide yourself over with Empire Strikes Back

Given there's no such thing as an usher or even a projectionist, how did that even happen? Me doth suspect a busybody in the audience, oblivious to the irony of watching Suicide Squad and reporting a 12 year old.