Messages

Don't think so - start one.

Done     

[Artwork]

I've just finished reading Hell's Prodigal.  I had only intended to read a couple of pages to see what it was about and ended up reading the whole thing in one sitting.  I was very impressed!

Artwork
On first look it was Lee Carter's artwork which really drew me in.  I frequently have trouble interpreting black and white images but when there are lots of grey tones it's as easy as colour.  I was totally blown away by the art.  Every page is a feast for the eyes.  I thought it was stunning.  In fact I'd say that Carter's art is the best I've seen.

Introduction
I've never read Necrophim before so I was expecting to have a bit of a learning curve when I started but I didn't, the story was introduced beautifully.  Not only did we have a poetic intro to the very basic backstory but the first conversation between Valion and Uriel also sets the scene.

Story
Tony Lee's  story itself was exciting, unusual and well paced.  Not only did I find the story really great but it was told really well too.  I enjoyed it much much more than I thought I would.  Great stuff.

So generally I really liked 'Hell's Prodigal'.  Brilliant work.  I am now itching to read 'Civil Warlord' and see how it all turns out.

Anyone else read this stuff yet? 
What did you think of the art, the story?
Is it a different experience if you've read Necrophim before?
Any negative points?

Jo


PS:  "I mean even heaven has the iPhone"  v. funny!

Quick question, is there a review page for Necrophim?

There's something slightly comedic in tone to Moore's style that made it seem like an odd fit for Walking Dead, if I'm honest.

I know what you mean, I think that's partly why I liked it.  I really enjoyed the serious story with a lighter style of art.  It stood out as a bit odd in an enjoyable way for me.  I can see why Adlard's art, being more gritty and adult styled might be a better fit, it's just not my favourite style.  I still like it but it doesn't get to me like Moore's art does.  Just a personal taste.

Let us know what you make of the stories. There are some classics and old favourites there.

Will do.   

They're on ebay and Amazon.

From the days of Rian Hughes doing the design work. Fleetway did some gorgeous collections back then. Chopper and America were also wonderful.

EDIT: This auction also shows off some of the colouring work. Not too shabby.

Thanks guys!  I just ordered all four from Amazon.  I feel like a six year old on Christmas Eve!!!  Can't wait to read them.  The colour does look excellent!

The Moore WD issues are great, but I'd be sure that a big part of the book's widespread success is its insane reliability and regularity: the collections come out more frequently than some other 'monthly' books!  Whetever reservations I may have about WD, Adlards'sent is incredible, 250-odd pages a year for 13 years: he's well past the demi-Cerebus mark already, and he's not even insane yet.

I totally agree about Adlard's workrate and reliability as an artist.  From what I read, I got the idea that it was this skill set particularly which made Adlard a better choice for Kirkman as well as his excellent artistic skills.  I do still have a strong personal preference for Moore's art but it's doesn't stop me recognising Adlard's excellence.

Now as I wrote earlier I agree wrt to the writer but I don't quite understand the logic on the artist. It is not practical for the same artist to draw every episode and indeed different artists can breath new life into strips.

Why is the artist regarded as of lesser importance than the writer? Why is a new artist's interpretation of a series 'breath[ing] new life' but a new writer's is somehow a betrayal of the series' creative vision?

I agree with Jim. If you take a purist approach or a creator owned approach you can't place one original creator above the other.

If Nemesis had been entirely drawn by Kevin O'Neill I don't think I would have liked it any less.

Ok...so how long would you be prepared to wait for each series?

The fact is it takes a lot longer for artists to produce a page than it does for a writer.

It took Angie Mills something like 18 months to draw the first episode of Slaine. At that rate if she had drawn every episode we would be up to about Dragon Heist by now 

IMO a series hangs together as a complete thing based on the overall direction set by the writer (and ok yes the editor makes a contribution as well),

Take Nikolai Dante as an example. I view it as a complete story. It would not be if someone other than Robbie Morrison had written it and taken it in a different direction. Having had multiple artists doesn't change that.

And BTW I never said the artist wasn't important. Indeed the phrase "breathing new life into a strip" shows I value the artist.

I don't have a problem with the artist or the writer being changed on IP that's corporate owned. I do have a problem with the idea that changing the artist is OK but changing the writer isn't because some how the writer is more creatively important to a strip then the artist. Stan Lee claimed to be sole creator of his characters on the grounds that he came up with them and if the artist that did hadn't drawn them another one would have. I don't agree with Stan Lee.

as for how long I would wait, I would wait as long as it took if that's the creative model being used.

I wholeheartedly agree.  I see writers and artists as equally responsible for the finished product, even though, for me, the art gets me to buy many more comics than the story. 

Recently I got into reading 'The Walking Dead'.  Robert Kirkman has always been the writer but, for the first 6 issues Tony Moore did the pencils.  After that though Charlie Adlard took over.  I so much prefer Moore's art to Adlard that I keep losing interest in the whole series now, whereas when Moore was drawing I couldn't put it down. 

I get a similar but opposite effect with Defoe where I don't yet understand what's happening in the story (I'm going to reread the whole thing when it's finished so I can really get it) but Colin MacNeil's art draws me in anyway.

I do get that the artwork takes more time, but I too would be more than willing to wait for an artist I love.

Fleet way did four excellent volumes of black and white stories coloured in properly:


https://www.comics.org/issue/49286/


https://www.comics.org/issue/48887/


https://www.comics.org/issue/48645/


https://www.comics.org/issue/49522/

Wow, these look great.  I'm going to get in touch with some comic shops who deal in older comics and see if they can source any.  Thanks!!!

["EB"]

I've never tried to do one of these before.  I was struck by how many people were saddened by Edmund's loss.  I looked at some of his art and then dreamed this, my tribute...

Title: "EB"



Thanks, Jo

[I'm]

http://megacitybookclub.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/mega-city-book-club-16-judge-child-quest.html

Just listened to this - great stuff - really interesting!

The best thing about The Judge Child is that it marks the beginning of a more mature tone in the stories. Up until then they were squarely aimed at young children, but it gets a bit darker, and Dredd gets noticeably tougher, from the first episode ("I kept my promise. You're out of the quicksand!"). And later on Xanadu, "I'm the one you should be afraid of." Case Files 4 is an excellent place to start reading (if you wanted to skip the more '70s stuff).

I hadn't realised that previous to this the stories were different.  I certainly like the more mature style now.  I remember buying 2000ad as a child in the early 80's (I think I was about 12) and not really understanding the whole thing.  I didn't get it.  I was looking for stories similar to those I'd seen on TV like 'Buck Rogers in the 25th Century', 'Battlestar Galactica' and 'Space 1999' in comic form but what I read seemed really mental.  I suspect that I didn't have the maturity to get it.
I started reading Dredd at case files 12, when it goes colour.  (I find some  black and white strip's difficult to interpret).   I'm also trying to get versions of earlier strip's where they were later coloured.  This is what happened with 'The Judge Child'. I've got a coloured version - thanks to Stu101.

[City of the Damned]

The Judge Child is possibly my favourite Dredd story of all time. There are just so many stand out scenes. At the risk of missing out some, those that come to mind most readily are:

- garbage
- the chap in the TC theme park trying in vain to avoid his predicted death
- Dredd telling Winslow to sling his hook
- the ongoing dynamic between Pa and Junior and Junior's down right meanness (a way better character than Mean IMO)
- the Jigsaw man
- the war game and the commentators commentary on it
- Dredd trying to bribe the populous of the planet for info on the Angel Gang's whereabouts and the attempt by one of them to mug him
- Link and Mean's treatment of the prospector and Dredd's subsequent show down with them
- the show down with Pa and Junior, especially Junior's reaction to be thrown to his death
- Bolland's art
- Rob Smith's art
- Mike McMahon's art especially in the TC theme park

And that's without even mentioning Dredd's "death", moustache-gate and that most shocking of endings.

Do get the Cursed Earth, but I much prefer the Judge Child.

I think I will have to get the Cursed Earth - no question!  Too many people have said too many good things about it.   :-)  (BTW I really enjoyed all of those bits which you listed as stand out scenes.)

You should follow up with

City of the Damned

It follows on from the threads of the Judge Child.

As long as he reads The Fink and Destiny's Angels first, o'course...

Skip the one where the other Angels got reincarnated though...

I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean. There never was such a story.

'City of the Damned' sounds good.  I've actually read 'Destiny's Angels' too.  This is an 8 part 2000AD Dredd story where Mean Machine get's reincarnated and joins up with the Fink to help the Judge Child wreak revenge on Dredd.  It's progs 281-288 if the page I looked up online is right.  I read it in two Eagle Comics.  It was the first time I'd ever seen the Fink.  Oh my goodness - he's fabulous!  I think he's my number one villian in Dredd.  I just love it that he's such a weirdo!

The facial hair thing was rather over the top, I thought, but fairly typical of Dredd of the day. He's 'relaxed' a bit more over the years, and has since shown regret over Judge Lopez, to the point [spoiler]it was revealed he'd kept Lopez's badge, as a reminder about taking responsibility, or possibly just penance[/spoiler].

That's really interesting.  It shows the maturity which the character has developed over the years.  (It makes me feel better about Dredd too - kind of humanises him.)  He is such a paradoxical character sometimes - so fierce and strict so he seems like someone you wouldn't want to meet and yet he's got a good heart and he's no less strict with himself.  It's this depth that really hooks me into the Dredd universe. 

I've just recently re-read the story myself, in the Case Files collection (Volume 4), and it's still a corker! Agree 100% about the ending. For me it works to make Dredd fell more like a hero, in that he's not prepared to countenance evil. But yes, the anti-moustache tirade certinaly puts him in the 'bastard' camp.

My favourite bits, apart from the ending, are mostly to so with the art - which survives the Case Files paper, but I doubt it's the best way to read it. Ron Smith's astonishing crowd scenes at Filmore Faro's parade; Mike McMahon's amazing rendering of the TC Amusement Park, especially the big leap. Of course Brian Bolland's jigsaw man. I do love the father/son relationship between Pa and Junior Angel, makes me chuckle every time he begs to do just one more bit of torture/murder.

If you liked this story, you've gotta get hold of the Cursed Earth. The art is just as good, and some of the stories are off the chain bonkers.

Absolutely - the art was great - all the way through.  I really liked the big leap too. 

The father-son thing between Pa and Junior was excellent, I totally agree.  I find it amazing that the characters are so strong given that we're looking at comic art.  How do they do so very much with so few words?  It's a real skill.  There again I think this a strength of 2000AD generally which is lacking quite often in other comics.   

As for the cursed earth I think I'm going to have to get it.  I've been repeatedly hovering over the 'buy' button on that one for months now.  Is it worth getting the uncensored one?  (Also is this published in colour anywhere does anyone know?)

Three words: Rinus Limpopop Quince

Oh that story was nuts!  I really liked the idea of the bag he had. Those space-warp globes Rinus had reminded my quite a bit of Johnny Alpha's time-bombs.  I kept wondering what Johnny would do if he had space-warp globes as well - could make for a great SD story.

I just read 'The Judge Child Quest' for the first time - it was amazing!  (Many thanks to Stu101 who gave me the Fleetway/Quality trade paperback of this story in colour.  :-)   )  I dont think I've ever read a story with such a range  of people, places and mad adventures.  I also thought the ending was stunning too [spoiler] where Dredd leaves the Judge Child because he believes he's evil and so can't help the city after all.[/spoiler]  It was so unexpected and very very Dredd.  Great writing there I thought.

I think this is easily one of my favourite stories. The only bit I didn't like was Dredd's obsession with Judge Faro's facial hair and the way Dredd was so harsh about Faro being the one to take the oracle spice.  It was still very much how I see Dredd I think, he puts his view of being a Judge and his comittment to protect the city first and expects everyone else to do the same, but it really shows the harsher side of him as a character.  Although I didn't like it, it certainly made for a more complex story, as John Wagner says 'Dredd as villian'. 

My favourite parts of the story were:

• Texas City Mutieworld Danger Park   
• The EB4 Mining platform 
• The Tale of Buggo on Ombra
• The man with Jigsaw disease
• and of course the show down with the Angel Gang on Xanadu

So anyone else like this story?  What are your views on the facial hair thing?  Why was Dredd going on about it so much?  Is Dredd and hero or a villian (I kind of think both)?Any favourite parts of this story?

Jo

It's up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5EZaO1HPF4&feature=youtu.be

Saw this last week - totally brilliant - a real professional job.  Very very well done to all!!!