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Nice Pic Wils, that's an old style Dredd.  A lot of room at the front of helmet which is a bit quirky. Not bad for a quick sketch!

(pvs wonders if he could steal a finger from several different artists if he cold tansplant them onto his own hand and be able to draw properly - only one way to find out)

Actually the icon is bigger there too.

Well, thanks, I'm pretty pleased with that pic, it even looks good at full size.  But I gave up a year or so after sixth form (thats 10 years ago now).  I tried doing a few comic strips, all only got a few pages before I ground to a halt.  This was partly because I'd signed up for a degree course I was completely unsuited for.

I produced the 'odd' good picture but they always seemed like flashes in the pan, almost as if they had happened by accident.  Any time I've picked a pen up since, I've got even worse, all my pics look flat and two dimensional and sometimes just outright cack.  They were just desperate measure because I wanted to do comic strips.  I'm fortunate in that a couple of people have since agreed to draw some of my scripts (poor devils).

You can see some of my recent scribblings (yes, they are cartoonish and dredd changes from strip to strip :) - pots, kettles and suchlike) on Dredd and another strip (which was 6 months of on and off pain and still looks like crap) at the link below.  Feel free to exact punitive revenge ;)

Paul

Link: http://www.2000adonline.com/index.php3?zone=input&page=thrills&Field=Writer&choice=pvs" target="_blank">Dodgy Examples

Well my version of Dredd, with a biggish chin, can be seen (just about) in my icon.  That was drawn about 10-12 years ago.

Putting this all into context, I think you'll find no abominations before 520, by which point you can't argue Dredd wasn't properly established.  In fact you have to look very hard to find any Dredd that isn't great before 520.

Also if you have the complete Dredd's, compare the images in the comic to the covers, which are drawings from the early nineties and see how bad it's got, both good and bad artists are doing it by this point.  Quitely is a great artist and draws an amusing Dredd, but it's also a bit gross.

If you pull a classic Dredd Expression, your chin looks bigger.  It isn't actually any bigger though.  I think Dredd has a slightly bigger chin than average and his expression eccentuates that.  That's it.

As for Sigu's dredd chin strip (is this something that's drawn or just an idea) forget what I said about it being on the site, if it exists, put it in prog 2003.

Well my version of Dredd, with a biggish chin, can be seen (just about) in my icon.  That was drawn about 10-12 years ago.

Putting this all into context, I think you'll find no abominations before 520, by which point you can't argue Dredd wasn't properly established.  In fact you have to look very hard to find any Dredd that isn't great before 520.

Also if you have the complete Dredd's, compare the images in the comic to the covers, which are drawings from the early nineties and see how bad it's got, both good and bad artists are doing it by this point.  Quitely is a great artist and draws an amusing Dredd, but it's also a bit gross.

If you pull a classic Dredd Expression, your chin looks bigger.  It isn't actually any bigger though.  I think Dredd has a slightly bigger chin than average and his expression eccentuates that.  That's it.

As for Sigu's dredd chin strip (is this something that's drawn or just an idea) forget what I said about it being on the site, if it exists, put it in prog 2003.

Sorry you got dragged into the middle of this PJ :)  While I don't think you pinned Dredd down exactly, there was the makings of (what I think would be) a great Dredd in there.  And the helmet/uniform was great.  I agree with Uncle Umpty, the difference between this weeks Dredd and that Future Shock you did ages back is incredible.

The rest is not a comment on your Dredd incidently...

I imagine it's a tricky one, but it seems to me that most artists are more keen on drawing 'their' Dredd than Dredd himself.  I don't think it's got anything to do with ripping off Dredd.  

I personally (and I know a lot of folk will disagree) think that it's best to take bollands Dredd and go from there.  It's a classic 'normal' Dredd and if there has to be a template, then for me that's it (perhaps I'm living in the past here).  It really does sum up Dredd's character for me PERFECTLY.  

If People start going from Gibson or McMahon I can only see them coming a cropper unless their style is similar (a man like flint).  That's not to say people can't riff off that and do their own thing, I'd be dissapointed if they didn't.

I can also see now where the chin thing arises from, that's all you can see of Dredd, so it's a focal point, as Sigu says.

It was a very funny Ezquerra moment where dredd pulls the fake chin of a Dredd impersonator and it pulls back on elastic and he lets it go with a twang.

(This thread is tempting me to scan and post my fascinating Understanding Comics-style strip-essay "Judge Dredd's Chin" in which I travel to MegaCity One to compare Old Stoney Face's maxillary magnitude as drawn by different artists over the years.)

Pease do.  I was tempted to scan in some Dredd chins as examples, but there would be nowhere to put them.  Your strip would be great in the fan section.

Having now looked through them all up to 520 - what a way to wast your life.

By this point we have what ranges from a big chin to the occasional very big chin (which by todays stabdards is a restrained Dredd), but not something that would classify him as a mutant.

I think rather han draw any real depth to Dredd a lot of modern artists have settled for a big wass chin and little else that gives him character.  maybe a lazy snarl, that's it.

"Oh, I didn't realise this was related to this week's Dredd strip. In that case I should say I thnk PJ's Dredd is now one of the best new renditions we've had for years"

NO!  FOR DROKK'S SAKE, IT'S NOT!  THIS IS A DISCUSSION OF DREDD OVERALL.

Apart from the fact it relates to how Dredd has been drawn for a long time, OR used as an example.  Blame Arthur Wyatt for diverting this railroad.  To get it out of the way...  I don't think PJ has pinned him down entirely, because Dredd looks different in every panel.  Page 1 he's over the top, page 3 he's almost a classic dredd, page 4 a good modern dredd (chins big, but it still looks good) and page 6 he is a hulk of a man (but still nicely drawn).  Having said all that I'd much prefer PJ on another Dredd to see where he goes than *many* others.

BACK TO THE POINT...

Up to early 200's I've seen bolland, ewins, wilson, dillon, mcarthy smith, mcmahon and gibson all draw what would normally be called a big chin and is reasonable and mcmahon & gibson draw something that is more than that.

"But, but, he's famous for his chin!"

I happen to think the chin has gotten out of control.  Yes, he's famous for it, but like most things, it probably isn't as impressive when you see the real thing.  He wasn't born with a rampant chin, he didn't start out on the streets of Mega City with a chin that cast a shadow over citi-blocks.  It's just become more and more exaggerated, growing to the point where Dredd ebcomes a living chin with Siku.  If his big boots had kept up with the chin, he'd have been deskbound for ten years.

As far as I can see it's something that McMahon started, and he pulls it off with grace, yet it allows springs back to an acceptable norm.  I think Carlos these days uses a an old McMahon style big chin.  But it's not some gross tumour on Judge Dredd's face.  By 200, Dredd's chin has got bogger, it's not bad, but it still has some grwoth left in it.  Gibson who has a more cartoony style (here's where I like cartoony, who can't when it's achieved with such grace and skill) exagerates the chin.

Anyway I'm up to 200 and the only really big chins are mcmahon and gibson, who stylistically for me pull it off.  I'll carry on trawling to see when the rad wasp got him.

No, not really picking a fight with PJ, this is just born of years of frustration of seeing 2000AD's main character drawn as a bad joke.

In fact PJ seems to be bit of a halfway mark, I like some of his stuff and not others.  Take this weeks Dredd, Page 4, last panel.  You can't get much more Judge Dredd than that.  Looks a bit like a rad wasp stung him on the chin, but I like the pic.  Then you have Page 1, Panel 4 which is cartoon Dredd, based on the popular mental image of Dredd ("He has this enormous chin - right").

This isn't a problem with one artist, it's a whole heap of them.  They draw him as this huge snarling distorted faced freak.

I've had this problem for at least ten years so I'm not expecting a solution anytime soon.

Could people please draw Dredd as a normal person, not some drokking freak.  A normally proportioned male, well toned (not action star muscly) and a relatively normal face.

I'm sick of seeing a gross characteur of dredd, with his stupid drokking jutting chin.  I'm all for a bit of artists stylee, I wouldn't even mind the grosser characteurs of Dredd if it was only occasionally - but not when it makes him look like a drokking spug faced drokker.

It's no point him saying mean/humorous things if he just looks like ludicrous pantomime character.  He should look like a mean, hard, cold and unforgivinging judge.

Cheers :)

Paul

I've had this problem for at least ten years so I'm not expecting a solution anytime soon.

Could people please draw Dredd as a normal person, not some drokking freak.  A normally proportioned male, well toned (not action star muscly) and a relatively normal face.

I'm sick of seeing a gross characteur of dredd, with his stupid drokking jutting chin.  I'm all for a bit of artists stylee, I wouldn't even mind the grosser characteurs of Dredd if it was only occasionally - but not when it makes him look like a drokking spug faced drokker.

It's no point him saying mean/humorous things if he just looks like ludicrous pantomime character.  He should look like a mean, hard, cold and unforgivinging judge.

Cheers :)

Paul

I missed all the reinvention of Durham Red, something I don't approve of.  Having said that, I've enjoyed the range of stories Abnett has dished up, some have been a bit duff, but taken as a whole I think it's been an interesting experiment.  

I don't think there would be any point taking the excercise beyond this series unless they did a follow on from each story which could be interesting, but slightly losing the point of the originality.

But much better this sort of playful reimagining, than something which that creates parrallel continuum characters like Rogue.

It might be fun to have some other weird riffs on 2000AD characters, as long as none of them become permanent features.

That's right MK13, blame it on the socks.

I have a couple of Judge Dredd caps that hail from the eighties.