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I think that probably goes for a lot of restrictions, curbs and controls.  They often, as you say, seem to work with the creative process rather than against it sometimes.  If you have to work within limits it can concentrate the mind in a way it maybe wouldn't if you had an entirely blank canvas.  And of course, less is sometimes more (The best of PVS' cryptic ravings are now available on CD).

I'm sure there isn't a written code, but I'd be interested in what can and can't go in 2000AD?  I'm sure that 'in context' you could probably do pretty much what you wanted as long as it wasn't pornographic or extremely rude.  Personally I'd rather 2000AD stayed a little innocent.  What do you think?



Anyway there are two ways to take this thread (missus) so I've added on a tawdry bit for all you smut merchants to add to the list of filth recorded in the pages of 2000AD.

NUDITY
There has been a lot of general nudity.

Well, if you count Slough Feg in the horned god, we have the male generative member (his willy).

Breasts.  Ian Gibson Breasts in Dredd for instance.  Now that's art (How much would he charge for large full coulour bootleg naked Halo Jones'?  Bloke could make a fortune.)

SWEARIN' (not made up words either)
Can't remember, I'm sure the odd 'crap' has appeared (no pun intended) in 2000AD.  I'm sure I've seen stuff that shocked me when I first read it in the pages, but I must have blanked it out.  Can't imagine we've had the

OTHER DUBIOUS STUFF
That's right, go trawl your Robbie Morrison comics :)

Didn't he have a brother called Doug?

PVS

(At a safe house somewhere in the North East of England)

Thanks for posting that up.  Really enjoyed it.  Oi'd buy a graphic novel of it.

Don't forget the Lensman books by E.E. Doc smith.

Basically the whole thing is a giant spiders web, there are so many connections you can't take any thread in isolation.

"Anyone want to claim that Japanese classical mythology was based on Frank Herbert?"

Wasn't there a future shock...

Maybe... but it's something he see as art and they just see as work for hire.  There is bound to be friction.  His alien could have stepped off the canvas of just about any of his biomechanical stuff.  he sees it as a 3D sculpture, they see it as a rubber suit.

He was well pissed of about Alien 4.

"They literally made my alien look like shit"

And I have to say I agree.

Knowing a bit about some of the things you mention (and trying to put that knowledge largely behind me) I have to say that claiming those strips are derivative seem a bit tenuous.

A-C & E (Never read D) could also be a whole load of other comics,films and books.

I've only read Rain Dogs and Glimmer Rats and I have to say I disagree with you.  I read them with a fairly good knowledge of those features of GW's worlds and I never picked up any obvious link in tone or content.  

Stories of Distopian futures with gang warfare or dimensional portals to realms of horror really are almost as common as grains of sand in a sandcastle.

GW's world is actually VERY unoriginal and almost every concept that appears in it has been somewhere else first, often on rather a long and tired journey.  In their favour those elements have often been put together quite cleverly.

The ABC Warriors strip was very funny for old fans who see people saying they were ripped off from Warhammer 40K.  It's a bit, pot calling the kettle black I'm afraid.

I do agree that stories, characters and backgrounds are shared by numerous SF worlds, though there may not be an obvious connection between two similar stories.  The same ideas are endlessly recycled and reintepreted in fiction.

Er, yes, when I said, Right, I meant my right, which is your left.  So they should be on the left hand side of the t-shirt as worn.

Good thing about them is that they don't look like geek t-shirts to no-scrots, just cool designs.

I think the thin people should basically just eat more yorkshire puddings and get a bit more ale down their throats.  If we have a bad winter, I fear they may not survive it.

I have almost the same problem as the Watcher, but I was about 14/15 when I bought my t-shirts and I've grown a bit since then, so I daren't actually wear my t-shirts.  The fink was one of my favourite ones.  If you do any of the old ones, I'd would be better to do a 'new' version I suspect.

I normally prefer black (as opposed to white) but all the colour variants you mentioned sounded like they could be great in the right context.

One I never got was a Halo Jones one which said Increased Leisure Citizen.  I would like some new variant on that.

Logo's and Catchphrases are okay as long as they are designed well, I have one Judge Dredd t-shirt from the late eighties with some shocking design work on.  They should look authentic to the strip and not be insanely embarressing.

I like the Dark Judges shirt, but I would have preferred it if all that design work around the picture was removed and we just had the picture.

Many T-shirts would look good with just some of the symbols on the right hand side of the chest (in some cases maybe the sleeve too if possible).  Apart from Dredd, most of them would be fairly inconspicuous to anyone but a fan. I'm thinking of the following symbols:

Strontium Dog
Dredd
Volgans (Gotta be)
Southers/Norts (maybe in khaki/camo)
Terminator symbol
ABC Warrior logo
Rogue Trooper Biochip (On a Blue shirt?)

A few classic covers from the pre 520 progs might be nice.

Characters I'd like to see:
Dredd (maybe some Mike McMahon and Bolland)
Strontium Dog (Mr Ezquerra)
Nemesis/Torquemada (Early O'Neil - Torq has too many good slogans to waste)
Robohunter
Halo Jones
(Increased Leisure Citizen with her in hoop gear)(her on Pwuc looking like death with a bottle of Catsblood beside her "In 4960, Halo Jones ended up on Pwuc")
Bad Company
The Fink

I'd also quite like some extreme retro T-shirts
Bill Savage saying something suitably inane and violent, preferably while shoting and/or kicking something.

Not too fussed if you don't make many from that lot.  I would probably have to turn to crime to pay for them.

Actually I just realised this is an old argumenet I've ressurected in new form and shaype thru various necromantik arts.  I apologise unreservedly, before ye wytch hunter cometh for me and my kind.

On a more intersting point, one of the best panels of Horned God is near the start in pencil.  Now that would have been an interesting trend.  I think it's pencil, maybe it's partly ink.  it does however look great and it must have taken him less time than painting surely?

Not really a criticism of Mr Bis, we all know he can draw.  It's more the dreadful legacy of Bisley I fear, something he himself wasn't responsible for.

He did ABC warriors in BW, which I liked, a few other strips, then Horned God.  Horned God eh?  I have it here in front of me, in hardback.

Well, he never finsihed it really did he?  It looked great, mostly.  I don't think it was the pinnacle of Slaine in either storytelling or art.  To say it is overrated is a vast understatement.

But I would rather that Fabry had drawn it in B/W, finished it properly and told the story.  Fabry was (is) a great artist, producing to my mind the most visceral and violently enjoyable slaine to date.  It had the edge to it that I think almost every other Slaine artist has missed.  You could feel every scowl, every sword blow, every knee to the nadgers.

But, again, that's an aside.

The legacy was the terrible painted tat that followed.  Years of it.  Sorry B/W, your time is up.  Now you can't blame Bisley for this, he never told loads of people to have a fit and a billion copycats to take his place.  But it might have been better if the horned god had never happened, then we might have been spared the painted muppetry that was to follow.

Hi Steven

Cheers, I'll check that out.  The name of the book's cropped up before so I'll definitely hunt it out.

I thought Starship Troopers was a cracking read, I tried another Heinlien book and it was merely okay.

I thought the tale was an interesting example of Total War, which both sides participated in, where everything is a legitimate target.  I guess you might be referring to the allies.  Well, if it's total war and someone takes a side then I'm afraid they get vaped too.  They vaped the allies till they changed to their side.  Then I bet the aliens targetted the allies with the same intensity.  Fairly unpleasant, but that's Total War for you, even wrose than normal war, which is hell.

But basically ST uses the same arguement as Dredd.  Dredd was a kids comic remember and any 'irony' was frequently missed by it's young readers who thought Dredd was great for shooting perps and killing hundreds of millions of people.  I think a lot of the writers and editors suffered from political queasiness over Dredd.  Certainly Alan Grant refers to him as a fascist bastard.  So the arguement against Starship troopers that it was aimed at an undistinguishing and influencable youth is exactly the same one labelled at Dredd for the very same reasons.  I don't see how you can stop a kid reading Dredd while stopping them reading ST.  .  

Cheers

Paul

Hey, I read Starship Troopers last year.  I loved it :)  You could go around claiming Judge Dredd was morally repugnant and you may have a point, I bet it wouldn't stop you enjoying it though.

Well, not really his fault, except in rather an oblique way.  

Mind you if you start reading Horned God at the back you'll realise that he actually started the trend for dodgy painting.

The fact that the first experiment with painted Slaine failed, would make you think that they might not bother again.

But they did.

Bugger.