Messages

Blimey, Tharg couldn't have picked a more perfect opening strip. It's the rarely seen gem that simultaneously melted little Stevie's apple-cheeked phizog off whilst setting the tone of the Prog back in '77. Courtesy of the artist whom, to this reader, epitomised 2000ad from its Planck Epoch all the way through the Quasar Age of the MacManus years.

After all that waffling on, you still haven't told us what it is. 

I'd just like to add, in an attempt to further explain myself, the pessimist in me can't help but expect my kids to be subjected to this kind of 'flied lice' shit by thick bullies at school when they're a bit older.

I also can't help but imagine some poor Japanese or Chinese kid at school in 1988 having to listen to dialogue from Our Man in Hondo being chanted at them by some witty fucker who's just been reading Judge Dredd at playtime.

Fuelling stereotypes is a little bit irresponsible in a childrens comic. Kids aren't always able to appreciate satire and are far more likely to take it at face value.

I certainly wouldn't want to change or censor the story in any way, I just found it a bit shocking and wanted to see what others thought.

I'm 100% sure that John Wagner is not a racist, nor was the story written with any malice. It just seemed so old fashioned and 'Mind Your Language' level humour that I was a bit taken aback.

Me so sorry honourable boarders.

How embarassing.  And for a first post too.  Yeesh.

Thanks for your help Lee.

Hey, no worries! Welcome to the board. Glad I could help.

If you see The Complete Nemesis the Warlock volume 3 you can let me know and return the favour.

It's on Amazon for £13.29. Strangely I was just ordering volume 13 and did a quick check for 14 while I was on.

"Nip" is a generic name for someone oriental (not neccessarily Japanese), but the Japanese have never been the subject of real racial abuse, probably because there's loads of the buggers.

This is not correct. The word 'nip' comes from the Japanese word for their country; Nippon. It's not a generic term for oriental people, it's specific to Japanese. And as far as the Japanese never being the subject of racial abuse, are you kidding? How could you possibly be qualified to make such a statement?

As for there being loads of the buggers, in what way does that discount any racial abuse?

[?]

Big deal, we Irish are spud-totin' terrorists.

And more to the point, just look at Wagner's Scots - if they aren't permanently tight (in at least two senses), they're starvlings in mud huts being shot for sport.

I can see how the specifics of the term 'Nip' could cause offense, but in context I don't think the portrayal of Japan is any different from every region, country and race portrayed in Dredd. 

Yes but isn't Wagner Scottish and also grew up in, or lived for a long time in, America (MC1)?

Taking the piss out of your own race and culture is easily defensible.

I would just like to clarify that the title of this thread is posed as a question - 'inexcusably racist?'. I found it tasteless, disrespectful and even somewhat offensive but I don't know if I would call it inherently racist.

There's no question at all though that the term 'nip' is a racist term of abuse however you look at it, whether it was intended in that way or not.

/rant

But seriously. Is it offensive? Ask the Japanese. Do the Japanese think it's offensive? Who cares? It's only a comic. It's not a propaganda tract attempting to undermine the richness of Japanese culture, it's a comic about a future facist. It's a comic rich with parody and satire. Was I offended by the Alcoholic, incompetent Emerald Isle Judges? No. It's just a comic.

I suppose this opens a debate about the suitability of cultural stereotypes in the media (and in general for that matter).

I think Brits have a tendancy to go a wee bit overboard with political correctness, and get offended on other peoples' behalves, and this attitude can lead to crusades of righteous indignation (see everything in the every British paper for the past decade).
Would  a British person find this stereotype offensive?

/rant

As I said, my wife is Japanese. She finds the term 'nip' offensive as it is usually used in an insulting/disrespectful manner.

Were the Emerald Isle Judges ever referred to as 'micks'? Would you find that offensive?

Would you be comfortable having Dredd use the term, pardon me, 'paki'? I certainly wouldn't.

Whether it is a 'propaganda tract' is completely irrelevant if you ask me. I take your point about people getting enraged on behalf of others and perhaps this is why I wasn't offended by Maria's constant "Mamma mia! I make-a-da spaghetti for-a-da Judge!" spiel.

If my wife was Italian maybe that would have seemed just as annoying. (although Maria was never called a 'wop' as far as I can recall.)

Indeed. It bears pointing out that Dredd, in particular, has always revelled in social and national stereotypes: Scots are aggressive drunkards, Italians are almost always Mafiosi, Australians care for little more than the beach and a cold tinny...

As someone once notably commented on Dirty Harry: "Harry's not prejudiced, he hates everyone."

Cheers!

Jim

Thinking about it, you're right. All races get the same treatment in Dredd's world.

So, short answer: Yes, I am being overly sensitive. I suppose I am really, I just didn't like the fact that the narration, even though it's not spoken by any character in the story, is also done in that "Me likey very much" style for no reason.

I did actually enjoy the story despite the off-putting dialogue and liked the character of Sadu.

And Colin, your art was magnificent as ever. Even back in '88.

Last week I bought the Judge Dredd Case Files vol 12 and I've been reading it on the train to work.

I just read the story 'Our Man in Hondo' this morning and I found it pretty tasteless and offensive.

I don't know if I'm just being overly sensitive, what with my missus being Japanese,  but repeated use of the word 'Nip' and the "me so sorry" tone of the narration really got on my nerves.

I realise the story is quite old, published in 1988 I think, but even so it seems anachronistically racist. Imagine if the story was set in Pakistan and the equivalent nicknames and "Oh deary, deary me" language was used.

What do people think?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this is my favourite interpretation of Judge Death ever.

His uniform looks great, all the little touches like the gaps between the bones, the tattered cloth. His face is spot on, scary and menacing. Just brilliant.

Have you had a crack at Dredd yet?

Beware. Only 2 people in the world look good with a moustache. 1 is my dad, the other is Frank Zappa and he's dead. Moustaches are very tricky to carry off.

Go for a 'Hitler moustache' as an interesting talking point.

By the way, getting your hair to grow back thicker by shaving it off is an urban myth. It doesn't work at all.

That's breathtakingly good.

Haha. Thanks guys and thanks for the note on DA linking me here. Glad it is liked overall. The uniform eagle and pads are based heavily off the design of a uniform i found on the lineart of a series of covers from 1986. prog 496 and 511 i believe. In those the elbow pad looked very much to be made of metal, in the lineart at least. If anyone knows what those covers looked like in colour and the elbow pad was green and not metal like the shoulder pads i will happily repaint that section. Also, at one point i shrank the mouth as it was too big, but forgot to enlarge the teeth haha, thanks for spotting it, will correct in the morrow, and far better to have it spotted now than after i have it printed out.

So thanks again!

Also the eagle is made from a plot based alloy that would not make noise, ditto for the chain. XD  

Hey, don't mind me, I thought your painting was fantastic. It's just that when a character has been around as long as Dredd and has had such a wide variety of artist interpretation, every fan has their own idea of a 'definitive' Dredd, even if it only exists in their own head!

I think your artwork is absolutely stunning.

And he wouldn't be able to sneak up on anybody wearing that big clanky eagle on his shoulder. It'd sound like a frigging xylophone.

If you start going down that route, even the badge-chain is gone.

Yeah. Well. Maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing.



There. I said it.