Messages

Yes it is always tricky.

Of course, this is the way a lot of things are done in comics and other mediums at the moment, which can be seen as a fad but I suspect it also popular because it is cheap (those TV talent contests must have some of the lowest minute/pound around), although I will admit they are popular.

This cheapness must really help given the state of the comics market at the moment - there just isn't the cash to do things properly. It is also popular with creators because of the way things are there are so few venues to get your work seen these days. 15-20 years ago the field was doing well and I'd imagine there are at least a dozen people here who would have been able to get regular professional comics work. These days the small press is strong and of a very high standard, which means it is a great place for people to get their stories out and hone their skills. Personally, I feel this will mean this and the next generation of pro comics creators will be better from the start of their (earning) career and will better appreciate their success (as opposed to the old days when the British Invasion of American Comic Books was still new and shiny, people would get smoke blown up their asses and presented with the moon on a stick). However, it does mean you are giving your work away for free so perhaps entering these contests isn't such a big issue. For example, the script I've got for the Graphic Short Story Prize this year is one I had already been working on with an eye on getting it published in the small press - I just had to trim it down to fit 4 pages. So there isn't much "wasted" effort, and if it makes the shortlist then I consider that to be a bonus. I find it also forces you to keep pushing yourself: to get it done, polished and out there. This should help you improve too.

Unfortunately, there is a Catch 22 situation at work here. Because the market has shrunk, being able to demonstrate that you can create comics (see the Tony Lee interview I posted in the writers thread). This either means getting published in small press anthologies or doing it yourself and either way you aren't going to make much or any money (unless you have a break out hit like Rainbow Orchid). Making the shortlist in a contest is just another chance to demonstrate this.

The question I'm asking myself is this: Am I a professional seeking work or am I an amateur looking for a lucky break?

Ultimately my answer to that is that (while I am a professional non-fiction writer) I am only an amateur comics writer and, while I'd love to get paid for my work (and would die happy if I could get a Future Shock published in 2000 AD), I am just enjoying writing comics at the moment. If I get a break then there will be an element of luck in there but it will down to all the work I'll have put in improving my writing.


Also to add to the list of contests (that I don't think I've mentioned in this forum) are Comic Book Idol and Small Press Idol (and it'd be rude not to mention the UK/Ireland Rising Stars of Manga, even though the change in terms and conditions have put off a lot of people). If anyone fancies taking a run at those then start a new thread and we can kick ideas around.

Keep an eye on the Forbidden Planet blog as they cover a lot of less mainstream comics that might just get you interested:

http://forbiddenplanet.co.uk/blog/

Sounds a little tricky unless you have a great idea you somehow haven't got round into turning into a webcomic but if you have...

www.bleedingcool.com/2009/08/18/universal-press-and-amazon-save-money-on-rd-with-comic-strip-competition/

Also while we are on story structure I stumbled across this today (on Bleeding Cool I assume):

www.dramatica.com/theory/articles/Dram-differences.htm

A small press struggler's two cents:

Taking advice from screenwriters is relevant in my opinion. Screenplays and comic scripts are both basically instructions for visual mediums. You are describing a picture for someone else to make.

Very true - watching how shots and camera angles work can be a big help in describing panels.

Also something I forgot to mention is The Writer's Journey. It started as a look at how Joseph Campbell's ideas on myths work in film but has changed to be a more general guide for all writers of stories (although it still has a cinematic focus. Best go for the most recent edition:
www.amazon.co.uk/Writers-Journey-Mythic-Structure/dp/193290736X/

It is important to know about such things, if only so you use it to subvert the reader's expectations - if they (even subconsciously) recognise the pattern then you can hit them with a swerve.

I can't stand comics with over blown narrative panels (usually filled with bad prose and/or unneeded exposition). They remind me of movies with irritating and unnecessary voice-overs.

The Show Don't Tell rule is often repeated because it's true. The audience like to process the information themselves. The cognitive process is stimulating. Info dump dialogue and narrative panels are boring. In the Brooker programme someone says that he'd rather be confused for ten mins than bored for an hour. While the most important thing is to remain coherent, I reckon temporary confusion is preferable to boredom.

...but then again, I don't want to be overly prescriptive either. I just think it's a basic in writing for visual media that is worth pointing out. There are always exceptions to the rule. 

Yes, reading some earlier comic books can make you realise how clunky this can be. Good writers can still use this effectively (reading Fetish after Cradelegrave finished I was struck by how well John Smith evoked the stifling heat using very tight captions) and/or to make some kind of point. However, often it is there because of poor storytelling and/or literary pretensions.

This struck me when I was watching the Wire the other week when Chris Patlow brutally beat Michael's father. Given that the character has been set up as a cool and methodical killer the switch in behaviour implies this all happened because he was molested as a child or raped in prison. None of this needed explaining and it underlines the whole idea of treating the viewers as grown-ups and letting them work it out for themselves (which is much more satisfying).

I think it works really well - it is an excellent piece that not only catches the eye but also should provoke people to ask why he is made from a beer can (so you alreay have them hooked and interest, which makes it more likely they'll remember you).

Anyway don't be a stranger - feel free to share anything else you are working on or have a crack at the monthly art competition.

As for what I'm reading at the moment, I'm finishing up Matter by Iain Banks - one of his Culture novels and very diverting.

Really a great read, one of his best and pretty deep in places.  Be interested to know what you thought of the ending when you get there.

Heh! Me too!

The new book's out in a month or two, and I've discovered to my delight that I, as a mod over on the Banks forum, have a proof copy of it winging it's way towards me as we speak..!

Ooo nice. Let us know what you think - I'll probably put that one on my list for Santa.

I just found the time to get racking through some books I've had for a while Matter was up first and I thought it worked well. I was slightly annoyed by the ending (getting a Grant Morrison vibe from the whole thing - a wild wave of stunning ideas getting wrapped up awkwardly at the end) but then I realised there was more after the appendix and was satisfied with it.

I'm currently half-way through The Prefect by Alastair Reynolds and it is progressing nicely (as always!!). I'll then crack on with the Viriconium omnibus edition.

Millar hasn't provided any details on this but it arose from this question:

At the drink up in Chicago you mentioned doing something like a 2000 AD type of comic at some point down the line in the UK. I think this would be a quite awesome idea, but do you think that model would work only in the UK or do you see a place in the US market for a weekly newsstands anthology title too?

He has answered other, later questions but not this one. It is unclear what to make of this - it is possible it an announcement is imminent. I notice Rich Johnston has asked for more details. One of the comments over on Bleeding Cool has suggested Millar has mentioned something similar before and Brendan McCarthy might have been connected with it. With a big name attached it could work, even if it is only to develop properties for films (both might make it survive for a while as it could even run at a loss if it was spinning off a movie a year).

It'll be interesting to see what comes of this.

Very true. It shouldn't be difficult to do:

• Blog for the news - which is pretty much how they started out, even if they have expanded beyond this these days
• Wiki to generate static pages (to draw everything together into one place) - I've modified the Wikimedia one to work as a closed wiki run off the SMF user database (PM me and I can fix you up with what you need)

Banging in the software isn't a problem and is free - the main area that will take work is making sure the design is consistent and creating the content. There are plenty of visually talented folks around to help with the former (and I see Jim has already offered to pitch in) and I mentioned an idea in the suggestions thread which could help draw together the relevant links and overview for the latter. So it shouldn't be difficult to do at all.

Also I'd quite like a redirect to pick up the incoming links to the issue database and redirect them on to Barney if it isn't going to be moved back here. I can supply what is needed.

Good stuff - as has been said elsewhere it is the often overlooked aspect of comics creation even though poor lettering can really spoil the overall feel of the story, while good lettering can help pull everything together into a much slicker package.


Anyway the August batch have been interviewed over on CBR so if you are researching things it might be of some interest to see what they say:

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/08/zudist-colony-talking-to-the-august-zuda-contestants/

Barney offers the option to email him:

http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=profiles&choice=ARTHURR

Is the script online? I wanted to compare both versions and thought it might help.

Thanks for those. The one that really caught my eye was:

and my personal favourite, the story that I've been working on for a few years now and even has a demo 22 page comic that I self published (and have a hundred or so copies of sitting in my loft if people really want a copy for free) 'Ape in a Space-suit'. A story of evolutionary biology and fundamental relgion, or just an excuse to have a cool ape run around and fight dinosaurs and stuff...

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/colin.ynwa/ApeInASpacesuit#

While we should be wary of apes in comics it certainly looks like you are bringing more to the table than just "look it is a strange ape!!" so it gets my vote.

My plan was to turn these into scripts. I find being a failed artist I'm best doing my 'writing' using thumbnails like this. I think of stories visually. It then really helps with writing up as it distils what's really important in a panel and so hopefully I could send an artist a script that is not cluttered with detail but rather contains the essential information from which they can have a free hand to tell the story as they see fit.

Probably worth dealing with on the writing or art threads, but I wonder if artists would find thumbnails a bit restrictive, but then again as a guide it could also be pretty helpful.

For whatever reason in all but one of the 3 story I planned for Zuda the 8 pages told part of the main characters story from the perspective of a different character (or charcaters in one case). I found it allows you to introduce ideas for the main plot smoothly while telling a self contained story of the lesser character and his or her interaction with the lead. In two of the cases the character you're seeing the story through doesn't make it out the other end. I know I'd just read Nemesis book One before doing this and I really liked the way Pat Mills told self contained stories that build up the picture of what was going, certainly for the first what 5 or 6 episodes. Often with Nemesis off to one side or not there at all. Once he's established the world the main plot takes over and Nemesis is pretty much front and centre. It certainly allows you to put a good hook at the end of each part!

Nice analysis - you can't go too wrong breaking down the storytelling techniques that work. I'm definitely going to keep this in mind (Hell it might break the deadlock on my Zuda idea ).

It is a very good idea - I was explaining the idea of a "mythos" to my dad last night (as you do) and this is a very clever way of doing some serious world building - different people's perspectives building up a larger fictional universe (and it opens the door for you to use the unreliable narrator and also see both sides of the coin, so things needn't be so black and white).

And the idea of the unreliable narrator did indeed break the deadlock - still a long way to go but it gave me the structure (the beginning and end) which just needs filling out.

I did this quickly last night and i am looking for criticism as there is something not quite right about it but i am not sure exactly what.

Tricky. I won't bang on about my 1:1 head:thigh ratio, which has set the medical establishment on fire, but I'd suggest his head looks too big - it is about the size of his waist (when it should be the size of his thigh naturally). It is tricky when you have to add a helmet as that would tend to make the head look bigger but the bulky shoulder pads can help offset that. It'd probably be worth doing quite a few Dredd sketches to thrash out the general proportions.

OK we have general threads for writing, drawing, colouring and lettering comics the next threads would be for pitching (ideas), self-publishing and promoting (one of each I suppose). Not something I can claim much knowledge in but if someone is enthusiastic then start one or all of them (I will get round to it... eventually... probably, so go for it).